Ash-Greninja Discussion

Okay good, it's not locked into Hardy. I'll still prefer using Protean over Battle Bond due to not needing to score a KO with decently weak offensive stats to be good.
 
Ash-Greninja's speed tier being above Mewtwo, Shaymin-Sky and Marshadow is just awesome for Ubers, assuming that the Mystery Gift does in fact allow us to reset for other natures. Also interesting that the overall stat boost is the same as that of a Mega Evolution's. Battle Bond Greninja should definitely be more relevant in Ubers than the lead-restricted Protean Greninja.

Anyone else thinking that Greninja's new access to Work Up might be helpful btw?

Greninja @ Life Orb / Waterium Z / Darkium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive/Timid (Maybe Hardy?) Nature
- Water Shuriken / Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Work Up
- Gunk Shot / Low Kick (Shoot) Waterfall / Substitute / Grass Knot / Ice Beam

This set has some really nice coverage overall. Here's what it can do at +1.

+1 252 SpA Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Greninja Black Hole Ecplise vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 391-462 (96.7 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+1 4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 195-230 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 195-230 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 4 Atk Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 306-360 (76.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 398-468 (99 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 208-246 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Greninja Black Hole Ecplise vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 318-375 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 4 Atk Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 354-418 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 460-543 (70.6 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 354-417 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 460-542 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas (Scarf): 327-390 (83.2 - 99.2%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (from Water Shuriken) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 280-331 (71.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-S: 280-331 (82.1 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-S: 364-430 (106.7 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-S: 159-189 (46.6 - 55.4%) -- approx. 69.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-S (Scarf): 207-246 (60.7 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


This thing could rock.

Otherwise, all-out attacker also seems good.

Greninja @ Life Orb / Waterium Z / Darkium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive (Maybe Hardy) Nature
- Water Shuriken / Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn / Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
 
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Ash-Greninja's speed tier being above Mewtwo, Shaymin-Sky and Marshadow is just awesome for Ubers, assuming that the Mystery Gift does in fact allow us to reset for other natures. Also interesting that the overall stat boost is the same as that of a Mega Evolution's. Battle Bond Greninja should definitely be more relevant in Ubers than the lead-restricted Protean Greninja.

Anyone else thinking that Greninja's new access to Work Up might be helpful btw?

Greninja @ Life Orb / Waterium Z / Darkium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive (Maybe Hardy?) Nature
- Water Shuriken / Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Work Up
- Gunk Shot / Low Kick

This set has some really nice coverage overall. Here's what it can do at +1.

+1 252 SpA Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Greninja Black Hole Ecplise vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Primal Groudon: 391-462 (96.7 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+1 4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 195-230 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 195-230 (50.7 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 4 Atk Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 306-360 (76.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Greninja Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Dialga: 398-468 (99 - 116.4%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 208-246 (51.7 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Greninja Black Hole Ecplise vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 318-375 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 4 Atk Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 354-418 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Greninja Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 460-543 (70.6 - 83.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 354-417 (54.3 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 4 Atk Life Orb Greninja Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 460-542 (70.6 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas (Scarf): 327-390 (83.2 - 99.2%) -- approx. 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Greninja Hydro Vortex (from Water Shuriken) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas: 280-331 (71.2 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 SpA Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-S: 280-331 (82.1 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-S: 364-430 (106.7 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-S: 159-189 (46.6 - 55.4%) -- approx. 69.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-S (Scarf): 207-246 (60.7 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


This thing could rock.

Otherwise, all-out attacker also seems good.

Greninja @ Life Orb / Waterium Z / Darkium Z
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive (Maybe Hardy) Nature
- Water Shuriken / Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn / Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
low kick and gunk shot are oras tutor moves, so it's illegal with BB greninja, at least for now (hoping for sequels move tutor)
 
Ability: Battle Bond (When Greninja faints an opponent Pokemon, it becomes Ash-Greninja. Water Shuriken power is doubled).
so water shuriken has 30 base power and its a multi hit move with a priority, if u equip it with specs and a modest nature let me do a calc, considering eviolite nerf
252+ SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chansey: 365-435 (51.8 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
that is some insane power, i pick modest because its strongest attack is getting a priority so no need for extra speed imo
Was the eviolite nerf ever confirmed?
 
So uh, here's a thought: Remember when the miners said this was technically a forme a la Cosplay Pikachu? Shouldn't we test this in OU first and foremost, since it cannot get Protean?
 
About the Z crystals, do they only work on certain pokemon (for example a charizardite only works for charizard), or can any pokemon use a z move?
 
About the Z crystals, do they only work on certain pokemon (for example a charizardite only works for charizard), or can any pokemon use a z move?
There are some exclusive Z-Moves (such as Extreme Evoboost for Eevee or Pulverizing Pancake for Snorlax), but all the others are usable by Pokemon with the type associated with the Z-Move, and there's one for each type
 
Okay good, it's not locked into Hardy. I'll still prefer using Protean over Battle Bond due to not needing to score a KO with decently weak offensive stats to be good.
protean got it banned so it's not a matter of preference, it's a matter of what's fair/more well designed. Battle bond forces you to earn its strength with a revenge kill which may be deemed more fair for normal play.

So uh, here's a thought: Remember when the miners said this was technically a forme a la Cosplay Pikachu? Shouldn't we test this in OU first and foremost, since it cannot get Protean?
That also raises the point that it may be bound to this generation only like cosplay Pikachu.
 
can anybody kindly show the proof that battle bond doubles the base power of water shuriken, i have checked the text file, all it says is just "water shuriken becomes more powerful"
eager to know if more powerful means to double up the power....
 
i found something really interesting-
Water Shuriken (!) Special Hydro Vortex (100 Power)

since water shuriken is a multi hit move does that mean it will have base power of 500 total? each hit being 100 thus 5 hits is 500 the highest ever, is this really that red giant water shuriken??
 
i found something really interesting-
Water Shuriken (!) Special Hydro Vortex (100 Power)

since water shuriken is a multi hit move does that mean it will have base power of 500 total? each hit being 100 thus 5 hits is 500 the highest ever, is this really that red giant water shuriken??
Probably not. The hundred base power seems to just come from doubling an average of around 50 bp (3 hits has 45 BP, 4 hits has 60). Having a multi-hit move with that power would be ridiculous. Water-Shuriken also isn't just exclusive to Greninja since Accelgor also has it as of OR/AS. Hydro Vortex should at least retain the priority from Water Shuriken though.
 
i found something really interesting-
Water Shuriken (!) Special Hydro Vortex (100 Power)

since water shuriken is a multi hit move does that mean it will have base power of 500 total? each hit being 100 thus 5 hits is 500 the highest ever, is this really that red giant water shuriken??
Offensive moves tend to have their traits completely overriden when turning into a Z-Move, unlike status moves. So it shouldn't hit multiple times.
 
can anybody kindly show the proof that battle bond doubles the base power of water shuriken, i have checked the text file, all it says is just "water shuriken becomes more powerful"
eager to know if more powerful means to double up the power....
 
Ash-greninja does have some merit over protean greninja but it will be more easy to counter due to it not having STAB on every move and not having access to certain moves. Having a powerful multihit priorty is another pro.
 

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