BH Balanced Hackmons Central Resources

I personally believe that Tapu Fini should be moved to C rank due to the relative effectiveness of its PH set.

Tapu Fini @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Core Enforcer
- Leech Seed
- Filler

It's a bit of a Kyogre and a bit of a Xerneas. It doesn't have the offensive presence of a Kyogre but it's annoying as hell. Scald burns, Core Enforcer shuts down abilities and Leech Seed keeps you even more healthy; all of this is imposterproof. It outslows base 90, like Giratina and the Primals, meaning that if they pivot around you the switchin is open to your predictions. This makes Core Enforcer even better. Its bulk it's just enough to survive from full health Tinted Lens V-create from Pdon, as long as it doesn't crit or is banded (it can survive even a Bolt Strike, same conditions). Scald 100% OHKOes after a spdef drop, or after SR damage. If pdon comes with an ability than makes him immune to Water, Core Enforcer removes it. You also happen to have a free moveslot: Knock Off, Uturn, Defog, entry hazards are all viable. Anchor Shot can be used to kill the imposter on the switch (sort of, it takes 20 turns, but you can stall most of them with Anchor Shot since it has 32 pp) and then some daring PH users. You can pick niche options to deal with some specific threats. Glare for Gengar and Pdon for example. It also is a nice check to Strenght Sap; its low attack makes the healing is, at best, on par with other recovery moves with the first use and afterwards it's trash.
 
  • Furthermore, Pokemon with Imposter while holding special items retain their item's properties. This includes
    • The capability of Mega-Evolvution or Primal Reversion with the designated items
to be reformatted...
What does this mean? Last time I checked, neither of the following procedures worked:
-have a mega evolvable pokemon hold its own stone and let it imposter another (non-evolvable at that particular instance) pokemon
-have a (non-evolvable at that particular instance) pokemon hold some other pokemon's stone and let it imposter that pokemon
I didnt test the instance where the imposter both before and after impostering remained always an evolvable species though.

also dont know if theres a better place to ask:
  • Since BH allows the use of anything coded in the game, unreleased Pokemon, abilities, megastones, items and moves are usable
to be reformatted...
In gen5, were pokestar props allowed?
 
What does this mean? Last time I checked, neither of the following procedures worked:
-have a mega evolvable pokemon hold its own stone and let it imposter another (non-evolvable at that particular instance) pokemon
-have a (non-evolvable at that particular instance) pokemon hold some other pokemon's stone and let it imposter that pokemon
I didnt test the instance where the imposter both before and after impostering remained always an evolvable species though.

also dont know if theres a better place to ask:

In gen5, were pokestar props allowed?
Last time I checked if Groudon or Kyogre hold the respective orb but they are running imposter they normally imposter. If they can't imposter then they go primal.
Then if a steelix imposters something and steelix holds steelixite (or whatever it is called) it can megaevolve, keeping the movepool of the impostored pokemon but the stats of a normal mega steelix. It is kinda weird and should probably be tested with the replay saved to show examples.
 
also yeah pokestar things were allowed they just happened to all be outclassed bc youre not allowed to use "natural" abilities like spirit's wonder guard or giant's huge power
 
Last time I checked if Groudon or Kyogre hold the respective orb but they are running imposter they normally imposter. If they can't imposter then they go primal.
Then if a steelix imposters something and steelix holds steelixite (or whatever it is called) it can megaevolve, keeping the movepool of the impostored pokemon but the stats of a normal mega steelix. It is kinda weird and should probably be tested with the replay saved to show examples.
Yeah just tested extensively with ScarfWynaut and if you imposter a groudon with a red orb imposter nothing much happens regardless of species. If you Imposter a Pokémon while you are holding the imposters own mega stone after transforming it can mega into the Imposters mega form getting it's stats, ability and typing but keeping the moveset you copied.
Most interestingly if you have an imposter Rayquaza that knows dragon ascent before impostering, then after transforming it can mega into a Mega Rayquaza, however if the imposter Rayquaza doesn't know dragon ascent but the thing it copied did it still can't mega.

Further testing shows if the Imposter holds a z-crystal as long as the appropriate move is in the copied moveset it can use it, including signature moves such as ss7ss.

For other form changes: an imposter in the form of meloetta never changes form, it stays as what it copied; an imposter of Darmanitan also never changes form even if you get a zen mode darmanitan and give it transform; an impostered aegislash also doesn't change form.
 
Last edited:
Yeah just tested extensively with ScarfWynaut and if you imposter a groudon with a red orb imposter nothing much happens regardless of species. If you Imposter a Pokémon while you are holding the imposters own mega stone after transforming it can mega into the Imposters mega form getting it's stats, ability and typing but keeping the moveset you copied.
Most interestingly if you have an imposter Rayquaza that knows dragon ascent before impostering, then after transforming it can mega into a Mega Rayquaza, however if the imposter Rayquaza doesn't know dragon ascent but the thing it copied did it still can't mega.

Further testing shows if the Imposter holds a z-crystal as long as the appropriate move is in the copied moveset it can use it, including signature moves such as ss7ss.

For other form changes: an imposter in the form of meloetta never changes form, it stays as what it copied; an imposter of Darmanitan also never changes form even if you get a zen mode darmanitan and give it transform; an impostered aegislash also doesn't change form.
just to add, a transformed pokemon can use the exclusive z move of its transformed state, but not one of its original form. I think this is to say exclusive z's check the user's current form like hyperspace fury but not base species.
 
In gen5, were pokestar props allowed?
also yeah pokestar things were allowed they just happened to all be outclassed bc youre not allowed to use "natural" abilities like spirit's wonder guard or giant's huge power
In addition, many (all?) of them crashed the game when appearing on the side of the field they weren't intended for. So, even though they were technically allowed, they weren't usable.
 
Yeah just tested extensively with ScarfWynaut and if you imposter a groudon with a red orb imposter nothing much happens regardless of species. If you Imposter a Pokémon while you are holding the imposters own mega stone after transforming it can mega into the Imposters mega form getting it's stats, ability and typing but keeping the moveset you copied.
Most interestingly if you have an imposter Rayquaza that knows dragon ascent before impostering, then after transforming it can mega into a Mega Rayquaza, however if the imposter Rayquaza doesn't know dragon ascent but the thing it copied did it still can't mega.

Further testing shows if the Imposter holds a z-crystal as long as the appropriate move is in the copied moveset it can use it, including signature moves such as ss7ss.

For other form changes: an imposter in the form of meloetta never changes form, it stays as what it copied; an imposter of Darmanitan also never changes form even if you get a zen mode darmanitan and give it transform; an impostered aegislash also doesn't change form.
So Imposter Chansey holding a Marshadium-Z can use ss7ss?
 
In addition, many (all?) of them crashed the game when appearing on the side of the field they weren't intended for. So, even though they were technically allowed, they weren't usable.
Ah, i used them in the battle subway and they showed up as black squares, but were otherwise able to battle normally.
 
Ah, i used them in the battle subway and they showed up as black squares, but were otherwise able to battle normally.
My understanding was they crashed the game. Might have been in multiplayer only? Or maybe when trying to battle B/W only? Probably wouldn't be hard to test if someone was so intent on making them playable in Gen V BH.
 
if we're doing weird niche improofs in the role compendium, I suggest z-boomburst + soundproof + tail glow Mega Pidgeot.
Sounds like a nice set, but Sceptile-Mega can perform a similar role with Dragonium Z and Clanging Scales while having a better speed tier (which can help more against teams with Mewtwo Mega Y) and being able to use Spore without having to fear Magic Bounce. Also the strongest move Pidgeot can go for is walled by Ghosts unfortunately. Great idea though!
 
Sounds like a nice set, but Sceptile-Mega can perform a similar role with Dragonium Z and Clanging Scales while having a better speed tier (which can help more against teams with Mewtwo Mega Y) and being able to use Spore without having to fear Magic Bounce. Also the strongest move Pidgeot can go for is walled by Ghosts unfortunately. Great idea though!
Pidgeot can run ghost moves and still be imposterproof though, and by that I mean Moongeist Beam of course which means it can break non normal unawares (if you're lucky).
 
Shedinja should rise to A, its insanely good with sturdy. Before you say it dies to stuff like sunsteel, moongeist, and status, if it didn't, it would be banned. It should be A rank factoring in these weaknesses. Primal Kyogre should rise to S, it males sense that it should be with the other two in the legendary trio, primal groudon and mega rayquaza. While I don't think this kind of logic works in standard, in balanced hackmons, the only thing that matters is stats and typing, which primal kyogre is not any worse at than groudon and rayquaza. Slaking should rise to A, its just as good as regigigas. Mega Gengar should rise to S, it's the best pokemon in the tier with normalize besides imposter chansey. Resgisteel should drop to B+, its much worse than zygarde-complete and giratina, and should be with aegislash. Mega Mewtwo X also deserves S, and arceus should be in a+ above regigigas and slaking. Kyurem-W should rise to b, its really good with 170 special attack and contrary draco meteors. Mega Slowbro is terrible, much worse than other waters such as kyogre, greninja-ash, mega swampert, etc. and should fall to D. Ash Greninja should take its place in B, its an absurdly good fast pokemon whos speed can be further augmented with speed boost or be given primordiral sea.

This is my first post, so please correct me if i made any mistakes. That being said, these points are all very valid and should be taken into account when the VR is next updated.
 
Shedinja should rise to A, its insanely good with sturdy. Before you say it dies to stuff like sunsteel, moongeist, and status, if it didn't, it would be banned. It should be A rank factoring in these weaknesses. Primal Kyogre should rise to S, it males sense that it should be with the other two in the legendary trio, primal groudon and mega rayquaza. While I don't think this kind of logic works in standard, in balanced hackmons, the only thing that matters is stats and typing, which primal kyogre is not any worse at than groudon and rayquaza. Slaking should rise to A, its just as good as regigigas. Mega Gengar should rise to S, it's the best pokemon in the tier with normalize besides imposter chansey. Resgisteel should drop to B+, its much worse than zygarde-complete and giratina, and should be with aegislash. Mega Mewtwo X also deserves S, and arceus should be in a+ above regigigas and slaking. Kyurem-W should rise to b, its really good with 170 special attack and contrary draco meteors. Mega Slowbro is terrible, much worse than other waters such as kyogre, greninja-ash, mega swampert, etc. and should fall to D. Ash Greninja should take its place in B, its an absurdly good fast pokemon whos speed can be further augmented with speed boost or be given primordiral sea.

This is my first post, so please correct me if i made any mistakes. That being said, these points are all very valid and should be taken into account when the VR is next updated.
alright lets take this line by line
shed is worse than it has ever been. the presence of moongeist and sunsteel force teams with shed to play super cautiously, even more so than the past when the best counter was mold breaker pursuit, which still was crippled by endeavor. the presence of hazards to apply pressure to stall teams and break sashes on offensive teams make shedinja more of a burden than many other mons that could fill that slot on a team.
the reason primal kyogre isnt at the same rank as pdon or mray is because it isnt as good. water doesnt have a super spammable move like vcreate does, and doesnt have a relevant -ate like mray does, and it has neither of their offensive versatility. what ogre does have, however, is bulk. that is what makes it good w/ regenvest, or fc as a pdon switchin.
slaking is just worse than gigas, that little bit of physical bulk doesnt compensate for the special weakness.
gengar has so many counters, like revdance, mbounce, and any sort of priority. every team runs a normalize counter, and since it can fit into 1 moveslot, it does not pressure the team as much as chansey does. gengar is certainly very strong, but it is not as strong as mmy or pdon.
registeel and zygc/tina wall different things. if you only run registeel, you suffer vs pdon. if you only run one of the bulky dragons, you suffer vs strong special attackers and -ate users like kyub. aegislash should drop, though, its niche of being able to switch out of magnet pull and shadow tag gengar is gone now.
mmx is usually outclassed by some other, stronger physical attacker like, again, pdon. theres a reason pdon is S rank, it is absolutely the best physical attacker in the tier, im probably going to bring it up a lot.
arceus runs into the problem of being a jack of all trades, master of none. it cant run a spectral thief-proof ph set as well as gigas because of its significantly lower attack, and it cant wall things as well as regi or tina because of its lackluster defensive type.
kyuw is outclassed by kyub for most wallbreaking and mmy for most special attacking.
mega slowbro is not an offensive water. it does not fill the same role as ashninja. mega slowbro's niche is its ability to switch into pdon, repeatedly, and threaten it out, just like tina except with the water stab to scare it away. ashninja is too frail to do that, and too weak to kill anything relevant. its ice beam 2hkos mega rayquaza, an offensive mon that is quad weak to it.
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
Shedinja should rise to A, its insanely good with sturdy. Before you say it dies to stuff like sunsteel, moongeist, and status, if it didn't, it would be banned. It should be A rank factoring in these weaknesses. Primal Kyogre should rise to S, it males sense that it should be with the other two in the legendary trio, primal groudon and mega rayquaza. While I don't think this kind of logic works in standard, in balanced hackmons, the only thing that matters is stats and typing, which primal kyogre is not any worse at than groudon and rayquaza. Slaking should rise to A, its just as good as regigigas. Mega Gengar should rise to S, it's the best pokemon in the tier with normalize besides imposter chansey. Resgisteel should drop to B+, its much worse than zygarde-complete and giratina, and should be with aegislash. Mega Mewtwo X also deserves S, and arceus should be in a+ above regigigas and slaking. Kyurem-W should rise to b, its really good with 170 special attack and contrary draco meteors. Mega Slowbro is terrible, much worse than other waters such as kyogre, greninja-ash, mega swampert, etc. and should fall to D. Ash Greninja should take its place in B, its an absurdly good fast pokemon whos speed can be further augmented with speed boost or be given primordiral sea.

This is my first post, so please correct me if i made any mistakes. That being said, these points are all very valid and should be taken into account when the VR is next updated.
Welcome to smogon, and I am glad you have attempted to correct errors on VR. Unfortunately, some of the contents in your post has already been discussed in previous pages, so please allow me to clarify them for you.

Prior to 7th generation, the most popular way to eliminate Sturdy Shedinja was using a Mold Breaker Pokemon with Pursuit, which is able to hit Shedinja through Sturdy and land a hit using Pursuit even if Shedinja attempts to switch out. Although the introduction of Sunsteel Strike and Moongeist Beam has significantly reduced the usage of such strategy, "Mold-Pursuit" does not give Shedinja a second chance once it has switched into a wrong situation.

Yes, there are many number of ways one can hurt Shedinja. Weather damage from Hail or Sandstorm, entry hazards such as Stealth Rock and Spikes, damage from Poison or Burn, residual damage from trapping moves, removing its ability such as using Entrainment or Core Enforcer, and Sunsteel Strike and Moongeist Beam (two moves which ignores target's ability when calculating damage) are ways to hurt and eliminate Sturdy Shedinja. One must scout all these moves before sending in the bug. Shedinja requires heavy team support to function, and one incorrect decision will lead to Shedinja instantly fainting.

While I agree Primal Kyogre has its prowess as the strongest Water-type, it is dealt easily with right ways. Let's start with the most common set, Poison Heal; the newly introduced move Core Enforcer will remove the target's ability if the target was hit last, and this is most likely going to happen since the most common users of Core Enforcer, Giratina, Zygarde-C, and some regenvest variants minimize their Speed stat and Poison Heal Kyogre's 98% of the setup move is Quiver Dance which boosts speed, making itself even more vulnerable to Core Enforcer's nullifying of an ability. Also, Spectral Thief is immediately going to shut it down and end the sweep by stealing all the boost.

Slaking is just a "different" Regigigas, and it is usually outclassed by Regigigas because of its worse special bulk which becomes crucially important when taking Boomburst from -ate users, setting up against opposing PH Kyogre, and others. Also, even if they are "basically the same thing", one can just look at Regigigas' roles, sets, and other things and apply it to Slaking. @ motherlove

Registeel is the most reliable and blanket check to -ate users with its fantastic mixed bulk, and it has 20 more HP stat than Aegislash. Both are not the same. Aegislash is immune to Fighting types and can be used as a nice imposterproofing wall for your own sweeper with abilities such as Flash Fire. They have different niche, but because of Registeel's overall bulk is much better, they are in different ranks.

Mega Mewtwo X, aka MMX, is an unfortunate legendary that is heavily reliant on its ability for wallbreaking (Technician, Mold Breaker, Stakeout, Refrigerate, etc.) unlike Mega Rayquaza and Primal Groudon, which is very self-sufficient with STAB moves such as Dragon Ascent, Draco Meteor for Mega Rayquaza, and very spammable V-create for primal Groudon which is way better offensive typing than Fighting or Psychic. Even as a mixed attacker or lure, Mega Mewtwo Y does much better job.

Arceus is not so hot 'mon to play with. It has 40 less Attack stat than Regigigas and Slaking which basically proves it is an inferior PH sweeper, and even the excellent bulk and speed are compromised by lack of resistances (such as how Giratina and Zygarde-C are top tier physical walls because of their great natural bulk and resistance to Fire that lets them handle Primal Groundon).

Ash-greninja has possibly the worst infamy in Balanced Hackmons community due to Chopin Alakinoff's regrettable decision of using it as the latest BH clc core; It might look like it has good dual STAB moves and mixed offense stats, it fails to take a STAB hit from any offensive 'mons, and it is heavily reliant on boost to do an actual damage. The only niche of the frog was when Water Bubble was not banned, and even then, Primal Kyogre was the better user of such ability. Shell Smash Power Trip is outclassed by Mega Tyranitar / Hoopa-U / Yveltal due to its poor bulk that doesn't let it survive a hit and set up, and Sheer Force or Primordial Sea is outclassed by Mega Mewtwo Y and Primal Kyogre.

I believe you had right reasons to at least make a claim, but I am afraid to say that you have missed out reasons why aforementioned 'mons are in low rank despite their niche you have mentioned; we nominate 'mons into different ranks while regarding their strength and weakness, their efficiency in the current meta, and the number of viable sets (that is not notably outclassed by others) it can run.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
Shedinja should rise to A, its insanely good with sturdy. Before you say it dies to stuff like sunsteel, moongeist, and status, if it didn't, it would be banned. It should be A rank factoring in these weaknesses. Primal Kyogre should rise to S, it males sense that it should be with the other two in the legendary trio, primal groudon and mega rayquaza. While I don't think this kind of logic works in standard, in balanced hackmons, the only thing that matters is stats and typing, which primal kyogre is not any worse at than groudon and rayquaza. Slaking should rise to A, its just as good as regigigas. Mega Gengar should rise to S, it's the best pokemon in the tier with normalize besides imposter chansey. Resgisteel should drop to B+, its much worse than zygarde-complete and giratina, and should be with aegislash. Mega Mewtwo X also deserves S, and arceus should be in a+ above regigigas and slaking. Kyurem-W should rise to b, its really good with 170 special attack and contrary draco meteors. Mega Slowbro is terrible, much worse than other waters such as kyogre, greninja-ash, mega swampert, etc. and should fall to D. Ash Greninja should take its place in B, its an absurdly good fast pokemon whos speed can be further augmented with speed boost or be given primordiral sea.

This is my first post, so please correct me if i made any mistakes. That being said, these points are all very valid and should be taken into account when the VR is next updated.
There are a couple things I would like to highlight in your post in hopes to explain the current rankings of the nominations you made:

While Shedinja is a genuinely underrated threat atm that I see a lot of builders not accounting for as of late, it still faces the same flaws as it did since the beggining of the gen which prevents it from rising at the current moment. SunGeist is a big one, especially since the ladder also offers great Ghost-type coverage which can benefit the majority of Special Attacking sweepers. Entry hazard are also becoming more prominent as they find themselves placed on the majority of teams as of late, completely invalidating Shedinja's presence if its not running its sup-optimal Magic Guard set. Finally, the rise of Giratina (one of the best defensive pivots in the metagame) also disallows Shedinja from mindlessly spamming Endeavor as it could back when Zygarde-C was all the rave, something that is quite important given the move only has 8 PP. In short, while Shedinja can be completely dominant given the right matchup in support, taking away either of these aforementioned factors basically can leave one at a 5v6 disadvantage, and is why it should stay where it's currently at (at least for now).

Primal Kyogre has dropped from its S-Ranking mainly due to the omnipresence of common coverage moves in Core Enforcer and Spectral Thief, making Poison Heal Quiver Dance sets extremely hard to set up and sweep as easily as it could compared to last gen. It also lacked the set diversity compared to other S ranks (bar Chansey, but Imposter + FC is enough) to make it as versatile of a threat compared to Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza, and is why it is not currently placed alongside them. Simply looking as base stats + typing is actually not the all-encompassing factor when determining a mons viability, but rather what viable sets + roles can be utilized by these stats and typing.

Slaking is an inferior Regigiggas for the most part (sorry Mlove) since it lost its niche back in EV limit where mixed offensive sets that can catch common defensive mons such as Giratina and Zygarde-C as consistently, leading there to be little to no reason to use it over a mon that basically can perform the same role, but has access to a better stat spread which gifts it more bulk, thus letting it setup a bit more easier.

Registeel cannot be compared to Zygarde-C and Giratina in the slightest in terms of what they check, since it basically covers all the threats that the aforementioned Dragon-types struggle with in Mega Diancie, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Mewtwo-Y, Kyurem-W/B, Mega Sceptile, etc... while Gira and Zygarde-C can cover threats that scare out Registeel in Primal Groudon, Mega Mewtwo-X, and Mega Gyarados. Registeel is plain and simply one of the most splashable defensive threats at the current moment given how well sets such as Prankster and Magic Bounce deal with the majority of threats in the metagame. Dropping Registeel at the given moment would truly not depict its importance in the metagame (especially when considering the Magnet Pull + Gengarite ban).

While Mega Gengar is in fact one of the most oppressing threats rn thanks to its Normalize set, I still do not believe that a rise to S is warranted to it since a majority of teams are beginning to account for it much more. Options such as Revelation Dance on defensive pivots such as Yveltal and Solgaleo alongside abilities such as Magic Bounce (which is becoming increasingly more common on stuff like Regi and Mega Audino) all can keep Mega Gengar in check and prevent in from steamrolling a team. Lets not forget its weakness to priority which is also becoming more present thanks to the resurgence of -ate wallbreakers.

Mega Mewtwo-X is another threat that can potentially rise to S thanks to its sheer power when equipped with abilities like Tough Claws and Stakeout. However, it also struggles to break through common defensive checks in Giratina and Zygarde-C unless it uses Refrigerate or Technician. Its weakness to Aerilate and Pixilate also means that it can be easily checked offensively by a multitude of threats as well.

While Arceus got a lot better in the transition to No Limit, its still held back by its good but not outstanding stat spread which often leaves it outclassed in the majority of cases. Compounded by its good but not amazing mono-Normal defensive typing (when not using Multitype + Plate), which often leaves it replaced by other pivots such as Mega Audino and Registeel. Poison Heal Shift Gear sets also are better used on Regigigas imo, leaving Arceus find a difficult opportunity to find itself on that many teams.

Giratina had been voted on to rise to S, and we ultimately decided to keep it where it is alongside Zygarde-C due to how equally important these threats are in the composition of majority of defensive backbones in the metagame. While Gira possesses a less exploitable defensive typing and special bulk, Zygarde-C also offers unparalleled physical bulk alongside a neutrality to Ghost and Dark type attacks (which are starting to become more common). So a rise is not foreseeable at the given moment.

While Mega Slowbro is not as good as it once was thanks to many -ate wallbreakers opting to go for Techno Blast as additional STAB, Fur Coat sets still hold a niche in checking Primal Groudon variants that decide to run Ice-type coverage to cover the defensive Dragon-types.

Ash-Greninja is a threat that lost a lot if its luster after the Water Bubble ban, leaving it to only being able to resort to sets such as DazzleSmash to find any viable niche, and given how common Pranster Haze is as of now, it is a niche that is not really strong.

However one of the nominations I do agree with is a rise of Kyurem-W. A Choice Specs set with Refridgerate + Fire / Earth Coverage tears through the majority of teams due to it breaking through both Gira/Zyggy-C + Registeel/Solgaleo. It OHKOes the majority of offensive threats as well, which is really nice in a metagame where everything is so fat and hard to kill outright.

Glad that you are posting and we encourage discussion, especially from new players!
 
Last edited:
I can second a rise to Kyu-W. Specs sets are obvious, but Scarf sets are great at threatening offensive Pokemon, as many of them cannot withstand Boomburst, and many that can don't like it after some hazards. And if it runs into a defensive team? Here you go FC Chansey, enjoy the Scarf, I'll take your M.Bounce Registeel's Leftovers in exchange for your Eviolite later. I currently don't recommend anything beyond B+, though wouldn't argue if people wanted A-.

Unrelated, I have a bit to say about Kyu-B after looking at it. First, Technician. Switch it to Skill Link since it performs more consistently. I have experience comparing the two all the way to Gen V and Skill Link has always been more consistent. STAB Dual Chop is pretty meh in a Fairy and Steel-infested meta and you're better with Techy Primaldon for Bonemerang spam. Second, Dazzling. I've... never seen or come across this set and I have trouble seeing it do anything outside of standard Sash Smash junk that anything with at least 150 offenses, heck maybe as low as 120, can pull off somewhat decently. (Grain of salt, didn't run the numbers on 120.) Outside of Skill Link Icicle Spear and Refrigerate moves, Ice-physical STAB is pretty bleh and Dragon isn't a whole lot better. And if you say Power Trip, I say Pokemon with Dark-STAB. And third and finally, I nominante a drop to... whatever tier Kyu-W ends up at or one lower, but no lower than B-. Kyu-B is good, but its flagship set struggles to beat increasingly common Fur Coat spam, even Giratina (Zygarde still struggles), who only takes ~40% from LO Extreme Speed if it has a + Def nature and 45% without, which is stallable between recoil and low PP, unless it runs Boomburst. And Kyu-W does Boomburst better. And even then, Fur Coat Chansey beats literally all standard variants. Toss in that Psychic Terrain isn't exactly uncommon right now, forcing Kyu-B to either sit out, run non-priority moves, or run teammates with other-terrain support and I feel Kyu-B doesn't currently qualify for the A-rank tiers.

Also, Buzzwole and Alolan-Muk to Unranked. I mean, I've seen most of the D-Rank successfully run in different niches on rare occasion. Those two though? I've literally not seen them in a match or replay where the user wasn't running a troll team, experimenting, or is a newbie. At least Buzzwole had some use at the start of the generation. Alolan-Muk though? I see all these analyses mentioning it, suggesting to prepare for it or whatever but... 9 months since S/M released and I'm confident I have never seen it seriously used, ever. I don't have the most massive play time, but still... its telling when the rest of the D-rank has showed up to the tournaments in the past months and Buzz and Muk have not.
 
Gotta agree on the fact that I can't actually see a valid defensive niche for mega slowbro. I find every other water type to be more appealing, Kyogre has massive special bulk which makes him able to check shell smash mmy, ogre and gengar, power and a significantly better speed tier, which makes a difference when dealing with tinted don or some shit. Tapu fini makes for a remarkable check to contrary dragons, a core enforcer switchin and a really cool imposterproofing option on given teams. Mega Swampert can avoid Bolt strike (and para chances), use it's incredibly useful ground type stab to exploit arrows and waves, is potentially a check to imposter with stab waves + volt switch, acts as a good check to mons like lure galvanize don or imposterproof zekrom, resists stealth rock and just generally provides the team with a volt switch immunity. Meanwhile slowbro doesn't perform any better than giratina as a fur coat wall, can't take most special hits and is weak to both offensive pivoting moves making it not that hard to wear down via uturn and volt switch.

I actually don't see the appeal of slowbro, I don't think there is any. Soundproof being a particularly questionable options as specs -ates will very often run one of volt switch or moongeist beam. Rayquaza can also run draco meteor to guarantee a kill vs fat dragons and this easily OHKOs slowbro. Really I don't think it's a good option at all.


Rumors KyuB almost always runs boomburst nowadays, it's not about trying to compete with kyuW as a special attacker, it's about running a physical attacker / priority user that can easily get past the most common physycal walls in the meta.
 
motherlove Thing is though, Kyu-B gives up a lot to run Boomburst. If you drop Bolt Strike, Kyogre and Gyarados wall you. If you drop Precipice Blades (or V-Create if for some reason you really need to friggin' OHKO Aegilsash), Steel-types wall you. If you drop Fake Out, you don't check non-anti-priority threats nearly as well anymore. Dropping your fourth slot for Boomburst has its own host of problems, such as losing to Fur Coat Chansey. Boomburst is useful, but really costly, and Kyu-B has to make a significant sacrifice somewhere to include it.
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
hi

with the ban of magnet pull/gengarite some stuff should be removed

S: magnet pull pdon
A+: nothing
A: gengarite gengar, magnet pull audino
A-: magnet pull xern
B+: nothing
B: nothing
B-: nothing
C: magnet pull magearna
D: nothing

got some nominations too

giratina to a

man you slap this guy on your team cause you want to counter pdon but in the current meta giratina just isn't a pdon switchin. fc sets are less useful due to the decline in tinted lens pdon usage (which giratina is supposedly good at walling), pixilate and stakeout variants of pdon are extremely common and those just pick apart giratina. because of this i feel that it is much less useful compared to zyg/fc ogre

regigigas to a+

regigigas is stupid rn. it requires an insanely low amount of team support to function and it's dumb to prepare for. if you don't have poison heal or something then you're probably gonna lose to it at some point. also can i point out that regi can just spore a switchin then hard switch to a breaker?

solgaleo to a+

solgaleo is a really cool mon. the ban of magnet pull increased its viability a bunch. it provides amazing utility for a team being able to switch in on top threats like mmy (which usually runs psychic surge nowadays) and mega ray. it also pairs fantastically with imposter, like you just need a spore/mega gengar/earth plate pdon answer and you're pretty much good to go.

kyurem-b to b+

this thing seems so out of place here. it never breaks any opposing defensive team by itself because of its stealth rock weakness. refrigerate sets offer free switchins for imposter and have the weakest boomburst of any ate user. anti priority just comes in and laughs at it. never even seen technician or dazzling like do you rely on frost breath to deal damage man?? sounds like a worse mmx to me.

shedinja to a-

shed is a very good pick rn because of its capability to switch in on a bunch of threatening stuff. many stakeout users have no room to run stuff to hit it, ate pdon sets get walled, sheer force mmy is less common lately but you beat that too. it needs team support sure but it's honestly worth the cost

kangaskhanite to b+

this thing got much better after the gengarite ban because now it's the best "break defensive teams with a dumb banned ability" mon. ngl i haven't seen this for whatever reason but i don't see why it wouldn't be completely deserving of b+, like teams get 6-0'd by it, it's nasty

ferrothorn to b

ferro should rise imo. it beats a ton of stuff for the team like ph users, ff sets switch in on most pdon (ground stab is less common lately from my experience), unaware walls triage ray and checks aps/drum (sunsteel resistance is fun). ferro+soundproof is an awesome combination.

mega heracross to d

mega heracross is kinda interesting tbh, tons of attack and a cool stab combo. but if it's ranked solely on the basis of its triage set then i don't see why it should stay c. it literally loses to all four of the mons in s except for non psychic surge mmy. it completely fails to break any defensive teams whatsoever. it loses to every ate user 1v1 except kyub. the only thing i could see it being useful for is checking ph regi, which is cool and all except drain punch doesn't ko from full and they just switch out.

why is mega latias ranked at all if the only sets are offensive ones? doesn't latios do that better?

what does normalize marshadow do? ghost memory multi attack??? why would i ever use this

pheromosa to c

you might see this as the mon that "beats mmy/steels/gyara/ttar (wait hold on pheromosa + mmy that's the new offensive core) and does nothing else" but you're looking at it the wrong way. mmy is nuts right now, it's on like 40% of teams and steel types are practically mandatory to check it. so what does pheromosa do with this free turn that it gets every so often? whatever it wants. it can run stakeout, or set up, or get momentum, or even stack hazards. like it doesn't offer any defensive utility but you're not exactly switching pdon into mega ray either

thanks for reading :o
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top