BH Balanced Hackmons

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
Innards Out was no counter or check to stall, it was a check to offensive. And good stall teams had no problems dealing with it, especially when the team had a Zygod which could safely 2HKO chansey without losing too much HP.
Innards Out OHKOing random 'mon using U-turn is more than being "a check to offensive". Stall teams could barely do any damage to Innards Out Chansey without using physical move.

Also Zygarde-C risks being killed:

0 Atk Zygarde-Complete U-turn vs. 248 HP / 0- Def Chansey: 908-1069 (129.1 - 152%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Innards Out was no counter or check to stall, it was a check to offensive. And good stall teams had no problems dealing with it, especially when the team had a Zygod which could safely 2HKO chansey without losing too much HP.
What?
Innards out wasn't a check at all.
Here's the definition of check:
Smogon said:
Pokémon A checks Pokémon B if, when Pokémon A is given a free switch into Pokémon B, Pokémon A can win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.
Innards Out is all about blowing up yourself and it isn't a check to anything. It was a "pick an opponent: now it is dead". Let's say it is on a chansey. Everything more powerful (and including) than a Giratina U-turn is an OHKO, and pretty much kills everything back except zygod if chansey switches on hazards. Chansey decides to run Final Gambit so it can kill everything it wants as long as it isn't a ghost. Slap Soak or don't care about ghost and you have a guaranteed OHKO on whatever your heart desire. This includes a Solgaleo that stops MMY from sweeping (benefit offence) or a MMY that won't sweep because you forgot home Solgaleo (benefit stall).
But of course it doesn't need to be a chansey: MMX could Close Combat/V-Create until it was too frail to be revengekilled safely. V-create on Tina is enough to kill it if it tries to spectral thief, and 2 icebeams after V-create 2HKOes it anyway so you can't just wait and core enforce it.
And please, show a stall team that doesn't crumble to Innards Out but checks the meta anyway. Remember that IO Chansey happens to imposterproof by Tina since Eviolite negates the OHKO from U-turn and then it's just like 150 hp away from dying.
 
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cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
rattlepass: the sequel

so if you didn't already know, rattlepass is a strategy i made involving a rattled offensive mon switching in on u-turns from defensive mons that check it (like rattled gengar switching in on audino), then baton passing the speed boost to another offensive mon. it's not the most viable strategy (yet), but it's so fun to use so i'm making a guide. hope you enjoy

first off we have the rattled users:

KANYE WEST (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Baton Pass
- Ice Hammer
- Leech Seed // filler

this is the first rattled user i thought of, rattled cb pdon. the way it works is that it abuses rattled by itself to some extent, breaking the opposing team and preventing offensive mons from killing it by using the boost from rattled.

however, testing showed me that the set was not without its flaws. the single biggest problem for the set was opposing imposters, which forced me to click leech seed and then switch out, denying me momentum. additionally, most pdon checks (giratina, zyg, ogre) didn't run u-turn, meaning that even if i got the boost, they could just switch in and, again, take away the momentum.


GHOSTBUSTERS (Gengar-Mega) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 24 Def
- Judgment
- Counter
- Transform
- Baton Pass

this was my second go at rattlepass, mega gengar. mega gengar showed two advantages over pdon: the ability to imposter proof itself without losing momentum in the process, and a readily available check in mega audino that nearly always ran u-turn.

the presence of counter on the set is meant to dissuade the use of spectral thief on defensive mons which is annoying since they can steal your speed boost. 24 ivs maximizes the damage dealt by counter while guaranteeing that gengar live the strongest non stab spectral in the metagame, that from primal kyogre.

however, mega gengar was also flawed. switching it in could be extremely awkward in the event that the opponent chose to go for spectral thief (or other strong moves) on the switch for whatever reason, like sometimes i could click transform and get the recovery but that could be unreliable at times

after some thinking, i've created a rough set of criteria needed for a rattlepass user if you want to make your own:
  • must be fast (base 78 is the speed needed to outrun mmy at +1, a good spot to aim for)
  • no u-turn weakness (taking 30% just to pass speed? that's no set)
  • must have some counterplay against imposter (this is tough with no ability slot to work with)
  • must have a designated "check" commonly used on defensive teams that usually runs u-turn (e.g. mega audino, registeel)
  • must have the power needed to force in the check and prevent offensive mons from taking a hit and killing in return (this is really tough with your item slot possibly taken by a plate)
now on to the receivers:

arcues (Arceus) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest // Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Judgment
- Boomburst
- Shore Up // Leech Seed // Strength Sap

in my opinion this is the best rattlepass recipient by a good margin. arceus has traditionally been seen as the "jack of all trades, master of none" in bh, but on a rattlepass team both its offensive and defensive capabilities are highlighted. with unaware it's able to check threatening opponents like belly drum and shell smash variants of pdon (including those stupid annoying -ate variants), while it also takes the role of a very threatening sweeper when utilizing tail glow and stab boomburst. this set imposter-proofs with a partner ghost, but you can run moongeist and leech seed too if you want. multitype is also fun


brass monkey (Diancie-Mega) @ Pixie Plate // Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP // 31 HP
- Boomburst
- Flare Blitz // Blue Flare
- Extreme Speed // Earth Power
- Endeavor // filler

mega diancie is another good example of a rattlepass recipient. it's an ability based wallbreaker with an immunity to core enforcer, and its speed is already good but it gets a huge boost with rattlepass. additionally, most teams don't carry hard counters to it, only checks like registeel.

the two sets shown here are endeavor and choice specs, which i chose for their ability to deal lots of damage to imposter on the switch. another set i think would be even more effective is choice band pixilate, normal type + diancie as an offensive core struggles a lot with steels and cb v create fixes that problem. cb v create fixes a lot of problems.


i tried specs galvanize heliolisk as a replacement for arceus to help with the steel problem, but it's just not strong enough. ice beam does like 30% to giratina and boomburst fails to 2hko av regen solgaleo. arceus is still the king


DONKEY KONG (Lopunny-Mega) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Scrappy // Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- King's Shield
- Substitute // Spectral Thief

you have no idea how much i want to make a set like this work. how does focus punch interact with core enforcer? is sash mirror coat viable to smack mmy and giratina? that's something for the creative sets thread ig. for now use something better


ff shiftry is actually good on rattlepass. you might not be that impressed--i'm the one saying this, after all--but man all you need is this + arceus + something for fighting moves and your defensive core is pretty much good to go. this is because arceus handles everything bar the broken stuff (specs mmy psycho boost, band pdon vcreate, spore) which shiftry switches into with ease. also spore is fun when you're the one using it, the only problem is when you get that guilty feeling. if you know what i'm talking about then you're a horrible person

mega gyarados is fun if you like losing to lens pdon. shiftry is clearly the superior choice

stuff you need for rattlepass teams: (this is more flexible since you have 5 mons)
  • switchins to common wallbreakers (mmy, pdon, other stuff)
  • ph check (see regigigas, ogre, fairies)
  • ate check like steels or soundproof, i don't like steels on rattlepass tho because they're so passive and the ones that aren't don't check ate
  • hazard removal is big, rattlepass wants something to remove hazards. magic bounce is fun if you like that
  • likewise you really want hazards of your own, rattlepass is all about momentum and chip is very helpful. beat up shedinja as well
  • a good offensive core is good if you want to abuse rattlepass
  • something for contrary/setup
Arceus-Bug @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Boomburst
- Recover
- Judgment

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 24 Def
- Judgment
- Transform
- Counter
- Baton Pass

Diancie-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Pixilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- V-create
- Sunsteel Strike
- Crabhammer

Shiftry @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Spore
- U-turn
- Soft-Boiled

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Whirlwind
- Final Gambit
- Roost

Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
- Spectral Thief
- U-turn

replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-619983783

man thanks for reading and i would really like to hear your input on rattlepass in general. is it good? are there other things it needs? i'm gonna keep exploring it because i believe there's much to be discovered but i would like your help. thank you again and have a great day!
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Would speed boost be better? Or at least contrary on v-create primal groudon? Gaurantees speed. If you need Baton Pass to be used for immediate action, consider Baton Pass, Psychic Seed, Simple Solgaleo, you set the terrain with a Psychic Surge Pokémon which also carries Psychic Seed, Baton Pass turn 1 to Solgaleo who uses up the same item to get an additional +2 SpDefense, and unlike Assault Vest it can use any Attack, won't get knocked off because it gets consumed right away and with Solgaleo using Simple it can Baton pass +3 SpD if needed.

You don't have to use the Psychic Seed on the Psychic Surger, but I have had good work on a Baton pass team where you build up SpD or Def based on the seeds + Terrain of your choice.

The other good thing is Psychic Terrain removed priority from prankster and Triage users, and it also empowers Stored Power through a 50% boost and of course STAB off Psychic from Solgaleo. Carrying Simple is also for boosting with other moves like Tail Glow.
People usually use Dialga for Doom Desire, but a Quiver Dance/Tail Glow, Stored Power, Doom Desire, Baton Pass set works well for me. Fur Coat could also be used.

Baton pass to a normal type to avoid Soectral Thief without losing the boosts.

Come to think of it, unburden works well with a Seed as well as Acrobatics.
 
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rattlepass: the sequel

so if you didn't already know, rattlepass is a strategy i made involving a rattled offensive mon switching in on u-turns from defensive mons that check it (like rattled gengar switching in on audino), then baton passing the speed boost to another offensive mon. it's not the most viable strategy (yet), but it's so fun to use so i'm making a guide. hope you enjoy

first off we have the rattled users:

KANYE WEST (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Baton Pass
- Ice Hammer
- Leech Seed // filler

this is the first rattled user i thought of, rattled cb pdon. the way it works is that it abuses rattled by itself to some extent, breaking the opposing team and preventing offensive mons from killing it by using the boost from rattled.

however, testing showed me that the set was not without its flaws. the single biggest problem for the set was opposing imposters, which forced me to click leech seed and then switch out, denying me momentum. additionally, most pdon checks (giratina, zyg, ogre) didn't run u-turn, meaning that even if i got the boost, they could just switch in and, again, take away the momentum.


GHOSTBUSTERS (Gengar-Mega) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 24 Def
- Judgment
- Counter
- Transform
- Baton Pass

this was my second go at rattlepass, mega gengar. mega gengar showed two advantages over pdon: the ability to imposter proof itself without losing momentum in the process, and a readily available check in mega audino that nearly always ran u-turn.

the presence of counter on the set is meant to dissuade the use of spectral thief on defensive mons which is annoying since they can steal your speed boost. 24 ivs maximizes the damage dealt by counter while guaranteeing that gengar live the strongest non stab spectral in the metagame, that from primal kyogre.

however, mega gengar was also flawed. switching it in could be extremely awkward in the event that the opponent chose to go for spectral thief (or other strong moves) on the switch for whatever reason, like sometimes i could click transform and get the recovery but that could be unreliable at times

after some thinking, i've created a rough set of criteria needed for a rattlepass user if you want to make your own:
  • must be fast (base 78 is the speed needed to outrun mmy at +1, a good spot to aim for)
  • no u-turn weakness (taking 30% just to pass speed? that's no set)
  • must have some counterplay against imposter (this is tough with no ability slot to work with)
  • must have a designated "check" commonly used on defensive teams that usually runs u-turn (e.g. mega audino, registeel)
  • must have the power needed to force in the check and prevent offensive mons from taking a hit and killing in return (this is really tough with your item slot possibly taken by a plate)
now on to the receivers:

arcues (Arceus) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest // Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Judgment
- Boomburst
- Shore Up // Leech Seed // Strength Sap

in my opinion this is the best rattlepass recipient by a good margin. arceus has traditionally been seen as the "jack of all trades, master of none" in bh, but on a rattlepass team both its offensive and defensive capabilities are highlighted. with unaware it's able to check threatening opponents like belly drum and shell smash variants of pdon (including those stupid annoying -ate variants), while it also takes the role of a very threatening sweeper when utilizing tail glow and stab boomburst. this set imposter-proofs with a partner ghost, but you can run moongeist and leech seed too if you want. multitype is also fun


brass monkey (Diancie-Mega) @ Pixie Plate // Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP // 31 HP
- Boomburst
- Flare Blitz // Blue Flare
- Extreme Speed // Earth Power
- Endeavor // filler

mega diancie is another good example of a rattlepass recipient. it's an ability based wallbreaker with an immunity to core enforcer, and its speed is already good but it gets a huge boost with rattlepass. additionally, most teams don't carry hard counters to it, only checks like registeel.

the two sets shown here are endeavor and choice specs, which i chose for their ability to deal lots of damage to imposter on the switch. another set i think would be even more effective is choice band pixilate, normal type + diancie as an offensive core struggles a lot with steels and cb v create fixes that problem. cb v create fixes a lot of problems.


i tried specs galvanize heliolisk as a replacement for arceus to help with the steel problem, but it's just not strong enough. ice beam does like 30% to giratina and boomburst fails to 2hko av regen solgaleo. arceus is still the king


DONKEY KONG (Lopunny-Mega) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Scrappy // Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- King's Shield
- Substitute // Spectral Thief

you have no idea how much i want to make a set like this work. how does focus punch interact with core enforcer? is sash mirror coat viable to smack mmy and giratina? that's something for the creative sets thread ig. for now use something better


ff shiftry is actually good on rattlepass. you might not be that impressed--i'm the one saying this, after all--but man all you need is this + arceus + something for fighting moves and your defensive core is pretty much good to go. this is because arceus handles everything bar the broken stuff (specs mmy psycho boost, band pdon vcreate, spore) which shiftry switches into with ease. also spore is fun when you're the one using it, the only problem is when you get that guilty feeling. if you know what i'm talking about then you're a horrible person

mega gyarados is fun if you like losing to lens pdon. shiftry is clearly the superior choice

stuff you need for rattlepass teams: (this is more flexible since you have 5 mons)
  • switchins to common wallbreakers (mmy, pdon, other stuff)
  • ph check (see regigigas, ogre, fairies)
  • ate check like steels or soundproof, i don't like steels on rattlepass tho because they're so passive and the ones that aren't don't check ate
  • hazard removal is big, rattlepass wants something to remove hazards. magic bounce is fun if you like that
  • likewise you really want hazards of your own, rattlepass is all about momentum and chip is very helpful. beat up shedinja as well
  • a good offensive core is good if you want to abuse rattlepass
  • something for contrary/setup
Arceus-Bug @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Boomburst
- Recover
- Judgment

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 24 Def
- Judgment
- Transform
- Counter
- Baton Pass

Diancie-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Pixilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- V-create
- Sunsteel Strike
- Crabhammer

Shiftry @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Spore
- U-turn
- Soft-Boiled

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Whirlwind
- Final Gambit
- Roost

Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
- Spectral Thief
- U-turn

replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-619983783

man thanks for reading and i would really like to hear your input on rattlepass in general. is it good? are there other things it needs? i'm gonna keep exploring it because i believe there's much to be discovered but i would like your help. thank you again and have a great day!
Firstly I feel like gengar is not going to force them back into their audino or whatever after they u-turn since the reason it forces switches is the threat of normalise - once they see you're rattled this threat doesn't exist. But I don't see that that would stop the first pass at least, you just lose out on another free turn.

If shiftry is your only pdon check then I'm p sure you lose to anyone decent with a pdon (I'm talking a single predict OHKOing you with a completely common coverage move).

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Shiftry: 330-390 (85.9 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

And that's with no item or ability.
There's also contrary pdon which has a field day against your team. Basically the only pdon you can beat are mono fire coverage or galvanise so I won't bother listing the 600 pdon sets you struggle with (as much as I enjoy using substandard dark types I think shiftry leaves a lot to be desired).

An alternative method of rattlepass I thought of was a slow user who take a u-turn and the same turn baton passes out to tinted pdon or something which has about 2 checks when it's at +1 speed.

I like the idea but I think your team needs some work to do the things it needs to that aren't rattlepassing.
 
Strange team...
It loses to lots of common threats:
  • MMY with fairy coverage
  • PDon
  • PH Regigigas (Volcanion can't switch into +1 Facade, and if it switches into Shift Gear, Regigigas can decide to stay in for one turn after CF to kill it)
  • Ray
  • Kyu-w
  • Knock Off against Gengar - switching into mAudino is very dangerous
  • Your own Diancie
  • Literally any Shell Smash/Belly Drum sweeper, as you have no way to stop them
  • And many others...
So what's the purpose of it? If it is for BH UU, it would still be bad, and, more important, Gengar, Diance, Chansey and Arceus are banned in BH UU.
 

MAMP

MAMP!
rattlepass: the sequel

so if you didn't already know, rattlepass is a strategy i made involving a rattled offensive mon switching in on u-turns from defensive mons that check it (like rattled gengar switching in on audino), then baton passing the speed boost to another offensive mon. it's not the most viable strategy (yet), but it's so fun to use so i'm making a guide. hope you enjoy

first off we have the rattled users:

KANYE WEST (Groudon-Primal) @ Choice Band
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Baton Pass
- Ice Hammer
- Leech Seed // filler

this is the first rattled user i thought of, rattled cb pdon. the way it works is that it abuses rattled by itself to some extent, breaking the opposing team and preventing offensive mons from killing it by using the boost from rattled.

however, testing showed me that the set was not without its flaws. the single biggest problem for the set was opposing imposters, which forced me to click leech seed and then switch out, denying me momentum. additionally, most pdon checks (giratina, zyg, ogre) didn't run u-turn, meaning that even if i got the boost, they could just switch in and, again, take away the momentum.


GHOSTBUSTERS (Gengar-Mega) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 24 Def
- Judgment
- Counter
- Transform
- Baton Pass

this was my second go at rattlepass, mega gengar. mega gengar showed two advantages over pdon: the ability to imposter proof itself without losing momentum in the process, and a readily available check in mega audino that nearly always ran u-turn.

the presence of counter on the set is meant to dissuade the use of spectral thief on defensive mons which is annoying since they can steal your speed boost. 24 ivs maximizes the damage dealt by counter while guaranteeing that gengar live the strongest non stab spectral in the metagame, that from primal kyogre.

however, mega gengar was also flawed. switching it in could be extremely awkward in the event that the opponent chose to go for spectral thief (or other strong moves) on the switch for whatever reason, like sometimes i could click transform and get the recovery but that could be unreliable at times

after some thinking, i've created a rough set of criteria needed for a rattlepass user if you want to make your own:
  • must be fast (base 78 is the speed needed to outrun mmy at +1, a good spot to aim for)
  • no u-turn weakness (taking 30% just to pass speed? that's no set)
  • must have some counterplay against imposter (this is tough with no ability slot to work with)
  • must have a designated "check" commonly used on defensive teams that usually runs u-turn (e.g. mega audino, registeel)
  • must have the power needed to force in the check and prevent offensive mons from taking a hit and killing in return (this is really tough with your item slot possibly taken by a plate)
now on to the receivers:

arcues (Arceus) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest // Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Judgment
- Boomburst
- Shore Up // Leech Seed // Strength Sap

in my opinion this is the best rattlepass recipient by a good margin. arceus has traditionally been seen as the "jack of all trades, master of none" in bh, but on a rattlepass team both its offensive and defensive capabilities are highlighted. with unaware it's able to check threatening opponents like belly drum and shell smash variants of pdon (including those stupid annoying -ate variants), while it also takes the role of a very threatening sweeper when utilizing tail glow and stab boomburst. this set imposter-proofs with a partner ghost, but you can run moongeist and leech seed too if you want. multitype is also fun


brass monkey (Diancie-Mega) @ Pixie Plate // Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP // 31 HP
- Boomburst
- Flare Blitz // Blue Flare
- Extreme Speed // Earth Power
- Endeavor // filler

mega diancie is another good example of a rattlepass recipient. it's an ability based wallbreaker with an immunity to core enforcer, and its speed is already good but it gets a huge boost with rattlepass. additionally, most teams don't carry hard counters to it, only checks like registeel.

the two sets shown here are endeavor and choice specs, which i chose for their ability to deal lots of damage to imposter on the switch. another set i think would be even more effective is choice band pixilate, normal type + diancie as an offensive core struggles a lot with steels and cb v create fixes that problem. cb v create fixes a lot of problems.


i tried specs galvanize heliolisk as a replacement for arceus to help with the steel problem, but it's just not strong enough. ice beam does like 30% to giratina and boomburst fails to 2hko av regen solgaleo. arceus is still the king


DONKEY KONG (Lopunny-Mega) @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Scrappy // Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- High Jump Kick
- King's Shield
- Substitute // Spectral Thief

you have no idea how much i want to make a set like this work. how does focus punch interact with core enforcer? is sash mirror coat viable to smack mmy and giratina? that's something for the creative sets thread ig. for now use something better


ff shiftry is actually good on rattlepass. you might not be that impressed--i'm the one saying this, after all--but man all you need is this + arceus + something for fighting moves and your defensive core is pretty much good to go. this is because arceus handles everything bar the broken stuff (specs mmy psycho boost, band pdon vcreate, spore) which shiftry switches into with ease. also spore is fun when you're the one using it, the only problem is when you get that guilty feeling. if you know what i'm talking about then you're a horrible person

mega gyarados is fun if you like losing to lens pdon. shiftry is clearly the superior choice

stuff you need for rattlepass teams: (this is more flexible since you have 5 mons)
  • switchins to common wallbreakers (mmy, pdon, other stuff)
  • ph check (see regigigas, ogre, fairies)
  • ate check like steels or soundproof, i don't like steels on rattlepass tho because they're so passive and the ones that aren't don't check ate
  • hazard removal is big, rattlepass wants something to remove hazards. magic bounce is fun if you like that
  • likewise you really want hazards of your own, rattlepass is all about momentum and chip is very helpful. beat up shedinja as well
  • a good offensive core is good if you want to abuse rattlepass
  • something for contrary/setup
Arceus-Bug @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Boomburst
- Recover
- Judgment

Gengar-Mega @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Rattled
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 24 Def
- Judgment
- Transform
- Counter
- Baton Pass

Diancie-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Pixilate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- V-create
- Sunsteel Strike
- Crabhammer

Shiftry @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Spore
- U-turn
- Soft-Boiled

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Fake Out
- Whirlwind
- Final Gambit
- Roost

Volcanion @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Shore Up
- Spectral Thief
- U-turn

replay: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-619983783

man thanks for reading and i would really like to hear your input on rattlepass in general. is it good? are there other things it needs? i'm gonna keep exploring it because i believe there's much to be discovered but i would like your help. thank you again and have a great day!
i also enjoying losing t1 vs any imposter-proof sweeper, good team
 
Its definitely a unique team, but Speed Boost 90% outclasses Rattled. The sole advantage Rattled has is you can get a boost on the switch-in turn if you predict right. And, well, I suppose you can get a ton of boosts if you get hit by Pin Missile but... who uses Pin Missile? (...kinda hoping someone raises their hand with a straight face, I'd be curious to see on what set.) The downsides though? Only one boost per switch-in, requires some degree of prediction after revealing, is a literally useless ability against teams lacking Bug moves, and slow fat teams really don't care if you even got +6 speed from their U-turn because you're outspeeding their non-Pranksters anyway and they're sighing in relief you're not Normalize or something.

But if the goal is just for funsies rather than being hardcore-super-optimal-peak-ladder-in-6-games-and-win-all-tournaments, then its a pretty cool concept. Definitely outclassed for serious play, but looks at least viable-ish. Although, your replay really doesn't showcase it very well, I hate to say.
 
Rattled also gives speed boosts on Ghost or Dark hits, so you can try to switch in on stuff like Knock Off, Moongeist Beam (assuming you have enough bulk to survive it), and Beat Up as a multi-hit move (not that anyone's going to use Beat Up except as maybe Serene Grace+King's Rock flinch city). Spectral Thief, meanwhile, says "thank you very much for your boosts".
 
Its definitely a unique team, but Speed Boost 90% outclasses Rattled. The sole advantage Rattled has is you can get a boost on the switch-in turn if you predict right. And, well, I suppose you can get a ton of boosts if you get hit by Pin Missile but... who uses Pin Missile? (...kinda hoping someone raises their hand with a straight face, I'd be curious to see on what set.) The downsides though? Only one boost per switch-in, requires some degree of prediction after revealing, is a literally useless ability against teams lacking Bug moves, and slow fat teams really don't care if you even got +6 speed from their U-turn because you're outspeeding their non-Pranksters anyway and they're sighing in relief you're not Normalize or something.

But if the goal is just for funsies rather than being hardcore-super-optimal-peak-ladder-in-6-games-and-win-all-tournaments, then its a pretty cool concept. Definitely outclassed for serious play, but looks at least viable-ish. Although, your replay really doesn't showcase it very well, I hate to say.
I know I know! Scarf Skill Link Pheromosa, against Deo-A spam. 6 month ago.
Also: using an ability that benefit getting hit isn't terribly good, especially since one of your "wall" is x4 weak to it. Using Speed Boost is just better. The replay showcases Psysurge ShellSmash MMX being uncompetitive because it lacks concrete switchin and against the imposter it's a speed tie, if it showcases something in the first place.
Also if you don't care about bulk then M-Pidgeot is better at boombursting than Arceus.
Rattled also gives speed boosts on Ghost or Dark hits, so you can try to switch in on stuff like Knock Off, Moongeist Beam (assuming you have enough bulk to survive it), and Beat Up as a multi-hit move (not that anyone's going to use Beat Up except as maybe Serene Grace+King's Rock flinch city). Spectral Thief, meanwhile, says "thank you very much for your boosts".
In his team Gengar has Rattled. It loses to SE hits Ghost/Dark hits. Any move ends up killing it or stopping it forever. And Pdon doesn't like switching on koff or special attacks. And all of them kinda lose to fakespeed.
 
Im posting it here because ik some people do ig testing, and its a bug thats mostly if not only relevant to bh.
Could someone look at if, when mega evolution occurs, the illusion can be broken later on and you can imposter into it? Currently on Ps it lets illusion intact meaning they are imposterproof

If this isnt a bug, it means illusion stone-based illusion mega evolutions are imposterproof. It sounds relevant, because things like SS Mega mewtwo would probably rather run mewtwonite than sash, dropping surprise factor (or rather changing it since youre still running illusion) for less reliance on being at 100% hp, which sounds way better.
 
Im posting it here because ik some people do ig testing, and its a bug thats mostly if not only relevant to bh.
Could someone look at if, when mega evolution occurs, the illusion can be broken later on and you can imposter into it? Currently on Ps it lets illusion intact meaning they are imposterproof

If this isnt a bug, it means illusion stone-based illusion mega evolutions are imposterproof. It sounds relevant, because things like SS Mega mewtwo would probably rather run mewtwonite than sash, dropping surprise factor (or rather changing it since youre still running illusion) for less reliance on being at 100% hp, which sounds way better.
youd need psy terrain support, but yes it is usable
mewtwo x doesnt have a whole lot of resists to form part of a defense core with, but in terrain i guess you can disguise as flyers and bait priorities of something
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
youd need psy terrain support, but yes it is usable
mewtwo x doesnt have a whole lot of resists to form part of a defense core with, but in terrain i guess you can disguise as flyers and bait priorities of something
He could Illusion Yvetal, attracting Rock moves, discouraging Ghost moves, and feigning immunity to Prankster in case Terrain isn't up. The benefit of faking a flying type as well, is they think the Terrain doesn't affect you, so they think they can use Triage, etc. priority on Yvetal not realizing it is MMX, which is grounded, and therefore safe from priority.

Also, no one expects Psychic moves on Dark types, except Hoopa-Unbound
 
MMX

He could Illusion Yvetal,
Fleur Cannon, Moonblast, Pixiate.
A good Illusion core is not allowed to share weaknesses.


But i agree Illusion is really good atm.
I use Gyarados with Mega Stone + P-Don @ Choice Band and it works really well.

Once i faced a double Illusion team and it was really confusing.
He used M-Ray + M-Audino illusion combo.

The classic Gen6 combo M-Diancle + P-Don still works.
Another one i can think of is P-Kyogre and Zygarde-C.


Trapping was yesterday, today we disguise ourselves.
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
gonna try more rattlepass after olt, don't worry i won't post again unless i actually achieve some degree of success with it. something witty about beating the people who posted the one liners

for this post i want to talk about overrated sets

so overrated sets are stuff i see a lot on the ladder and i think like "why is everyone using this" or something i put on my team and it just lets me down every game. i looked through the vr and saw three that performed infamously terribly from my experience. this post is mostly for fun and a sort of cautionary tale

#1: prankster registeel

man i think prankster registeel is pretty bad right now because the metagame isn't very kind to it (everything either hits it super effectively or carries coverage for it) but i want to talk about one particular offender: the recovery/u-turn/haze/destiny bond set. what does this even do other than switch into mmy and trade against contrary users? triage ray literally wins even if oblivion wing is its only attack. normalize gengar wins because spooky judgment 2hkos. it completely fails to do anything vs. balance (except maybe slow pivot), kind of like ferrothorn vs. stall in ou but worse.

#2: unaware mega gyara

this thing was hyped up as an unaware user at some point but i tried it out and it was bad. it's impossible to keep at 100%, more like around 70% because of u-turn. speaking of u-turn gyara is a pretty bad user of it because your goal is to get a slow one off but that faces two problems. the first of these is that gyara is too fast so it goes before the base 50s, the second is that even if you get the slow pivot against giratina or something, you're still taking that super effective u-turn and not checking what you need to. it doesn't check much in the first place with moonblast ogre and galvanize pdon running rampant (speaking of pdon gyara is no pdon switchin it gets 2hkod by cb v create). power trip resistance means nothing when your opponent is smart enough to run coverage and deal the 70% damage that they need. ph gyara with king's shield is actually a demon tho

#3: magic guard diancie

i think i lost to this using balance once so i gave it a spin. usually the set is lo head smash/light of ruin/flare blitz or v create/filler (i went with sparkling aria) with ff steel. it actually breaks balance pretty effectively, being able to 2hko numerous threats such as solgaleo, mega audino and kyogre while avoiding sr and toxic chip thanks to its ability. however, i'd say that it's pretty outclassed by sf mmy as a breaker because mmy is faster, more customizable (making it more reliable, if you run into an opposing ff steel or shed with diancie then you lose) and doesn't miss head smash. also i want to add how much diancie struggles with imposter, you'd think that would be a non issue because diancie is so frail but it actually has 110/110 defenses just with low hp so have fun. (yeah this applies to mmy too but you can run pursuit if you want) pixilate is 200% better because teams actually don't have fairy resists except pdon shed and steels

hope you enjoyed the post. feedback is much appreciated as always like even if you think that post was awful i want to know why. see you later
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
gonna try more rattlepass after olt, don't worry i won't post again unless i actually achieve some degree of success with it. something witty about beating the people who posted the one liners

for this post i want to talk about overrated sets

so overrated sets are stuff i see a lot on the ladder and i think like "why is everyone using this" or something i put on my team and it just lets me down every game. i looked through the vr and saw three that performed infamously terribly from my experience. this post is mostly for fun and a sort of cautionary tale

#1: prankster registeel

man i think prankster registeel is pretty bad right now because the metagame isn't very kind to it (everything either hits it super effectively or carries coverage for it) but i want to talk about one particular offender: the recovery/u-turn/haze/destiny bond set. what does this even do other than switch into mmy and trade against contrary users? triage ray literally wins even if oblivion wing is its only attack. normalize gengar wins because spooky judgment 2hkos. it completely fails to do anything vs. balance (except maybe slow pivot), kind of like ferrothorn vs. stall in ou but worse.

#2: unaware mega gyara

this thing was hyped up as an unaware user at some point but i tried it out and it was bad. it's impossible to keep at 100%, more like around 70% because of u-turn. speaking of u-turn gyara is a pretty bad user of it because your goal is to get a slow one off but that faces two problems. the first of these is that gyara is too fast so it goes before the base 50s, the second is that even if you get the slow pivot against giratina or something, you're still taking that super effective u-turn and not checking what you need to. it doesn't check much in the first place with moonblast ogre and galvanize pdon running rampant (speaking of pdon gyara is no pdon switchin it gets 2hkod by cb v create). power trip resistance means nothing when your opponent is smart enough to run coverage and deal the 70% damage that they need. ph gyara with king's shield is actually a demon tho

#3: magic guard diancie

i think i lost to this using balance once so i gave it a spin. usually the set is lo head smash/light of ruin/flare blitz or v create/filler (i went with sparkling aria) with ff steel. it actually breaks balance pretty effectively, being able to 2hko numerous threats such as solgaleo, mega audino and kyogre while avoiding sr and toxic chip thanks to its ability. however, i'd say that it's pretty outclassed by sf mmy as a breaker because mmy is faster, more customizable (making it more reliable, if you run into an opposing ff steel or shed with diancie then you lose) and doesn't miss head smash. also i want to add how much diancie struggles with imposter, you'd think that would be a non issue because diancie is so frail but it actually has 110/110 defenses just with low hp so have fun. (yeah this applies to mmy too but you can run pursuit if you want) pixilate is 200% better because teams actually don't have fairy resists except pdon shed and steels

hope you enjoyed the post. feedback is much appreciated as always like even if you think that post was awful i want to know why. see you later
Prankster Registeel is just a garbo mon in this world where every ate users carry random blades and v create, and all registeel can do in return is hazing or using u-turn. It can d bond to remove a threat but if it is against a team with more than just one threat, you start running into real trouble. I can't agree more with what you said. Unburden trip is just stopped by having zygarde-c in the team and it is that simple. Also Registeel is useless for most of the time for these reasons:

1. No spectral thief means the smasher can just smash again, and if registeel u-turns out someone will have to take BP 140 power trip. It should just stay in to spam haze while the opponent switches out whenever they wish and screws your momentum when your 'prankster pivot' is supposed to stop a threat and pivot out.

2. D bond shines when a mon outlived its usefulness (eg. Mega Gengar in Ubers with low health after removing stuff like support Arceus or Chansey) because it can take out extra opponent with appropriate mind games, but Registeel has to stay and keep pressing haze if one doesnt want their team obliterated by smash spammers. Pressing d bond and trading its life with stuff like contrary means you lose a so-called check to -ates and smashers meaning if you give a single opportunity for opponent to set up from that point, you are basically screwed unless you win tie with imposter or something.

About Unaware Gyarados, it has the best typing on paper in terms of dealing with setups. Resisting sungeist and power trip while being immune to stored power is just good but the weakess to both pivoting moves, U-turn and Volt Switch plagues the whole thing. As you mentioned keeping this guy at 100% is near impossible without regen or ph and mediocre physical bulk leaves it outclassed by audino, giratina, or even Registeel outsides stopping setup. That is why I nowadays prefer Unaware Yveltal over gyara despite its sr weakness.
(after i suggested av hoopa-u as a way to check specs surge mmy) If you lose notable portion of your health to mere U-turn, that isn't what you want from your wall. - E4 Flint
Magic Guard Diancie outclasses Pixilate variants only if it manages to set up. Imposter forces out anyway and Pixilate Boomburst is just better unless you are cteaming Soundproof or something. LO Flare Blitz is weaker than simply carrying V-create... I mean it does have surprise factor but it isnt good enough to be used over pixilate bc you dont wanna ditch that priority move that comes from choosing pixilate.

I would also like to leave some overrated mons before going to bed.

1. PH Kyogre
As i mentioned countless number of times in VR thread, anything with Core or Spectral is going to stop it. Even if it carries Spore, it is not like Regigigas which carries Knock Off at the same time. Unaware walls seem managable using Water Spout but it has 8 pp and often times imposter will come tank it and switch out. Also Core kinda shuts down Kyogre with spout bc it has to recover to fire off that bp 150 move again. It will continually spam moonblast instead which really defeats its purpose of being a Water type. Scald is just dealt by sending out stuff like Audino or PH Regigigas which can basically set up while surviving 3 Scalds and OHKOing in return with +2 Facade. Regenvest and FC seems much better options.

2. Kyurem family
Most of people in dedicated playerbase already knows that these dragons are not good in current meta but not everyone actually does.
Kyurem-B already starts out its life losing 1/4 of hp to stealth rock and having its dual STAB walled by Steel types. It chooses Refridgerate and if it doesn't dedicate itself to carry Bolt Strike and V create, it will easily be stopped by Kyogre or good old steel types. Setting shell smash means you miss out on one of the aformentioned coverage so it is just bad and is hard to improof as well. Gamefreak decided persecuting Kyurem-B wasnt enough already and decided to present a gift called anti-priority this generation. Yay!
My old boy Kyurem-W is just bad. It also throws up some blood on stealth rock and OHKOing fc dragon isnt even a niche bc mega ray can do the same stuff or something sinilar by carrying specs while dealing with rest of meta much better. Also again, Kyurem-W is useless without specs. That is right. Useless. Specless Kyurem-W is like OU stall without skarmory and chansey, Mega Chariyard Y without Dugtrio on the back, and Maui without a hook. It needs Specs to get 2hko on av regen solg which is already close to 60:40. If you miss you get hit by sunsteel, lose specs to Koff, or get hit by nuzzle and enjoy being useless for the rest of the game. Also it suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome thanks to its Dual STAB which forces it to carry Blue Flare and Volt switch which means you miss out on shedinja. If Mega ray didnt exist, Kyurem family would still be useful... but now it is just bad.

Id like to hear thoughts (that is not a oneliner dis) as well. Peace
 
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gonna try more rattlepass after olt, don't worry i won't post again unless i actually achieve some degree of success with it. something witty about beating the people who posted the one liners

for this post i want to talk about overrated sets

so overrated sets are stuff i see a lot on the ladder and i think like "why is everyone using this" or something i put on my team and it just lets me down every game. i looked through the vr and saw three that performed infamously terribly from my experience. this post is mostly for fun and a sort of cautionary tale

#1: prankster registeel

man i think prankster registeel is pretty bad right now because the metagame isn't very kind to it (everything either hits it super effectively or carries coverage for it) but i want to talk about one particular offender: the recovery/u-turn/haze/destiny bond set. what does this even do other than switch into mmy and trade against contrary users? triage ray literally wins even if oblivion wing is its only attack. normalize gengar wins because spooky judgment 2hkos. it completely fails to do anything vs. balance (except maybe slow pivot), kind of like ferrothorn vs. stall in ou but worse.

#2: unaware mega gyara

this thing was hyped up as an unaware user at some point but i tried it out and it was bad. it's impossible to keep at 100%, more like around 70% because of u-turn. speaking of u-turn gyara is a pretty bad user of it because your goal is to get a slow one off but that faces two problems. the first of these is that gyara is too fast so it goes before the base 50s, the second is that even if you get the slow pivot against giratina or something, you're still taking that super effective u-turn and not checking what you need to. it doesn't check much in the first place with moonblast ogre and galvanize pdon running rampant (speaking of pdon gyara is no pdon switchin it gets 2hkod by cb v create). power trip resistance means nothing when your opponent is smart enough to run coverage and deal the 70% damage that they need. ph gyara with king's shield is actually a demon tho

#3: magic guard diancie

i think i lost to this using balance once so i gave it a spin. usually the set is lo head smash/light of ruin/flare blitz or v create/filler (i went with sparkling aria) with ff steel. it actually breaks balance pretty effectively, being able to 2hko numerous threats such as solgaleo, mega audino and kyogre while avoiding sr and toxic chip thanks to its ability. however, i'd say that it's pretty outclassed by sf mmy as a breaker because mmy is faster, more customizable (making it more reliable, if you run into an opposing ff steel or shed with diancie then you lose) and doesn't miss head smash. also i want to add how much diancie struggles with imposter, you'd think that would be a non issue because diancie is so frail but it actually has 110/110 defenses just with low hp so have fun. (yeah this applies to mmy too but you can run pursuit if you want) pixilate is 200% better because teams actually don't have fairy resists except pdon shed and steels

hope you enjoyed the post. feedback is much appreciated as always like even if you think that post was awful i want to know why. see you later
1) I pretty much agree with your opinion on Prankster Registeel. If you're running it as a dedicated switchin to something *cough* -ate *cough* you're better off running either a more useful moveset in that situation (what are you gonna do? PP stall or kill them with U-turn?) or another ability such as flash fire which lets you actually reliably switch in when you're not at 100%. (If you switch into a V-create there's a very real chance that espeed kills the next turn, or if you hope for a low roll and recover they might just V-create again.) If all the mon is doing is prankster dbond I'd suggest other walls are better such as Giratina which can run dbond, recovery then it's choice of moves including spectral thief that actually mean it can do something to them or you can just run an offensive mon with prankster dbond which fills the description you used of Gengar in Uber - kill then take another down. Probably mega ray would be best for this.
Another option is to switch up the moves so you have more utility by adding something like spectral thief: on an offensive team you can even completely forgo recovery and it still does it's job (since you suicide anyway normally). This means you can run spectral, encore, defog or wherever else... just don't do it on balance :/
Here's a replay showing recoverless Registeel keeping off hazards for 50 turns:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-614047285

2) I like unaware Mega Gyara but with every mewtwo seemingly running volt switch nowadays I feel like it's usefulness is limited, not to mention it takes way too much from physical setup sweepers such as pdon. I still think it's a viable set that is what I'd describe as a soft blanket: it checks a lot of stuff but can only real check one per game. I think it's useful on balance teams that have a lot of small weaknesses to cover that just want something flexible for different situations and it has a decent offensive presence but it's definitely underwhelming as a dedicated Unaware setup check.

3) Magic guard diancie does what pixilate does but worse. LO LoR is weaker than pixie plate boomburst, you don't get priority and it misses. What you get in return is head smash which hits a few things but imo definitely not worth it. Being immune to hazard damage is nice if you don't have a defogger I guess?
Edit: completely forgot to mention sash, does sashy things.

Prankster Registeel is just a garbo mon in this world where every ate users carry random blades and v create, and all registeel can do in return is hazing or using u-turn. It can d bond to remove a threat but if it is against a team with more than just one threat, you start running into real trouble. I can't agree more with what you said. Unburden trip is just stopped by having zygarde-c in the team and it is that simple. Also Registeel is useless for most of the time for these reasons:

1. No spectral thief means the smasher can just smash again, and if registeel u-turns out someone will have to take BP 140 power trip. It should just stay in to spam haze while the opponent switches out whenever they wish and screws your momentum when your 'prankster pivot' is supposed to stop a threat and pivot out.

2. D bond shines when a mon outlived its usefulness (eg. Mega Gengar in Ubers with low health after removing stuff like support Arceus or Chansey) because it can take out extra opponent with appropriate mind games, but Registeel has to stay and keep pressing haze if one doesnt want their team obliterated by smash spammers. Pressing d bond and trading its life with stuff like contrary means you lose a so-called check to -ates and smashers meaning if you give a single opportunity for opponent to set up from that point, you are basically screwed unless you win tie with imposter or something.

About Unaware Gyarados, it has the best typing on paper in terms of dealing with setups. Resisting sungeist and power trip while being immune to stored power is just good but the weakess to both pivoting moves, U-turn and Volt Switch plagues the whole thing. As you mentioned keeping this guy at 100% is near impossible without regen or ph and mediocre physical bulk leaves it outclassed by audino, giratina, or even Registeel outsides stopping setup. That is why I nowadays prefer Unaware Yveltal over gyara despite its sr weakness.


Magic Guard Diancie outclasses Pixilate variants only if it manages to set up. Imposter forces out anyway and Pixilate Boomburst is just better unless you are cteaming Soundproof or something. LO Flare Blitz is weaker than simply carrying V-create... I mean it does have surprise factor but it isnt good enough to be used over pixilate bc you dont wanna ditch that priority move that comes from choosing pixilate.

I would also like to leave some overrated mons before going to bed.

1. PH Kyogre
As i mentioned countless number of times in VR thread, anything with Core or Spectral is going to stop it. Even if it carries Spore, it is not like Regigigas which carries Knock Off at the same time. Unaware walls seem managable using Water Spout but it has 8 pp and often times imposter will come tank it and switch out. Also Core kinda shuts down Kyogre with spout bc it has to recover to fire off that bp 150 move again. It will continually spam moonblast instead which really defeats its purpose of being a Water type. Scald is just dealt by sending out stuff like Audino or PH Regigigas which can basically set up while surviving 3 Scalds and OHKOing in return with +2 Facade. Regenvest and FC seems much better options.

2. Kyurem family
Most of people in dedicated playerbase already knows that these dragons are not good in current meta but not everyone actually does.
Kyurem-B already starts out its life losing 1/4 of hp to stealth rock and having its dual STAB walled by Steel types. It chooses Refridgerate and if it doesn't dedicate itself to carry Bolt Strike and V create, it will easily be stopped by Kyogre or good old steel types. Setting shell smash means you miss out on one of the aformentioned coverage so it is just bad and is hard to improof as well. Gamefreak decided persecuting Kyurem-B wasnt enough already and decided to present a gift called anti-priority this generation. Yay!
My old boy Kyurem-W is just bad. It also throws up some blood on stealth rock and OHKOing fc dragon isnt even a niche bc mega ray can do the same stuff or something sinilar by carrying specs while dealing with rest of meta much better. Also again, Kyurem-W is useless without specs. That is right. Useless. Specless Kyurem-W is like OU stall without skarmory and chansey, Mega Chariyard Y without Dugtrio on the back, and Maui without a hook. It needs Specs to get 2hko on av regen solg which is already close to 60:40. If you miss you get hit by sunsteel, lose specs to Koff, or get hit by nuzzle and enjoy being useless for the rest of the game. Also it suffers from 4 moveslot syndrome thanks to its Dual STAB which forces it to carry Blue Flare and Volt switch which means you miss out on shedinja. If Mega ray didnt exist, Kyurem family would still be useful... but now it is just bad.

Id like to hear thoughts (that is not a oneliner dis) as well. Peace
PHogre is gud. Peace
 
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MAMP

MAMP!
the reason to run magic guard > pixilate is so that you can run sash without it getting broken by hazards. sash mg diancie w/ lor/head smash/spectral/coverage for steels is a very solid set, reliably checking most shell smashers while still being a solid offensive threat
 
Prankster Regi:
I've made the experience that removing one key offensive threat from the opposing team by using Destin Bond often makes the battle much more easier for me to win. That's why I carry Prankster Regi in my team - but witha slightly different moveset, which works quite well:
  1. Destiny Bond: Of course.
  2. Entrainment: Chosen over haze to be able to suppress Xerneas's Poison Heal and other abilities with Priority. Haze isn't that good in my opinion as you have to spam it until the opponent stops setting up, otherwise you have to sack something to get Registeel in again - so that often you end up using Destiny Bond anyways.
  3. Shore Up: Of course.
  4. Spectral Thief / Nuzzle: Since trapping abilities got banned, u-turn is no longer necessary, so that I can run either Spectral Thief or Nuzzle as my non-prankster damage-dealing move. With Spectral Thief, the opponent has to decide between dying to Dbond or losing the stat boosts - so that he can't “punish“ a predicted Destiny Bond by setting up one more time, while Nuzzle cripples a mon for the rest of the match if it refused to attack into Registeel's Dbond, which also allows Imposter to always beat such a mon.
 
1. Prankstersteel: The standard set I find to be more of a nuisance. I mean sure, it stops my sweeping with Haze and threat of D.Bond, but... I'll just come back later and do it. Or hit Registeel with Taunt and Encore and just set-up again, which almost always results in a free KO or heavy damage to something if that's their only check/counter. Now if it does manage to D.Bond an offensive mon on a team with like, only two of them, then the opposing player will be hurting. But... really, any Prankster can do that.


2. Mega-Gyra just has a good Unaware typing, but really lacks the stats for it. It's pretty much a desperate attempt to block Stored Power Trip and Sungeist from set-up spam, as most Unawares can't handle one or any of them. Though, I was wondering recently, where did all the offensive Gyarados sets go? I might need to make a team with the old PH Shift Gear set once I'm able to battle again.


3. Guard Diancie was better when -ate clause was in effect so you can make your opponent wonder if it or the Mega-Ray was your -ate. It has some niches over Pixilate, but its generally inferior. However, its pretty much the next best set Diancie has.


4. PH Ogre is good. Sure, its shut down easily, but its still ridiculously hard to stop if your Core Enforcers/Spectral Thieves are all down/too weak to get in and challenge it. Its not the "ban the whole Pokemon because of this one set" OP it was in ORAS anymore, but underestimate it at your own peril.


5. Kyu-B's in a really bad spot right now as its main niche and role are kinda nuked by anti-priority and full EV limit. Kyu-W, however, I feel is a little bit underrated. Specs sets are neat, but Scarf sets are cool too, doing pretty much everything Kyu-B wishes it could be doing. Scarf outspeeds the whole unboosted meta and there's very few offensive Pokemon who can take the Boomburst and OHKO back, assuming they survive the first Boomburst to begin with. Kyurem/Primaldon also make for a really nice offensive core, especially with an Electric or Grass-type to round it out and catch stuff like Kyogre and Gyarados.
 
Here's a fun little set to wall and OHKO most pdon sets.

Leavanny @ Waterium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spore
- U-turn
- Steam Eruption
- Thousand Waves / Milk Drink / Stealth Rock

Leavanny outspeeds all non-boosted pdons and can eat its stabs.
252 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Leavanny: 57-67 (16.1 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO

It can fire off a hydro vortex for an ohko:
252 SpA Leavanny Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 416-492 (102.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This set loses to mold breaker sets of course, and only really exists to neuter pdons.
(this is my first write-up on here, lmk what you think)
 
Here's a fun little set to wall and OHKO most pdon sets.

Leavanny @ Waterium Z
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spore
- U-turn
- Steam Eruption
- Thousand Waves / Milk Drink / Stealth Rock

Leavanny outspeeds all non-boosted pdons and can eat its stabs.
252 Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Leavanny: 57-67 (16.1 - 18.9%) -- possible 6HKO

It can fire off a hydro vortex for an ohko:
252 SpA Leavanny Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 416-492 (102.9 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

This set loses to mold breaker sets of course, and only really exists to neuter pdons.
(this is my first write-up on here, lmk what you think)
While this is a cool set, I would like to say that it is probably better to use a more traditional pdon check such as Zygarde-Complete, Giratina, and Pogre as Leavanny has some flaws that somewhat limit its effectiveness. It's hit supereffectively by U-Turn, which some pdons carry to gain momentum on obvious counters, while being weak to stealth rock, which is not a good combination (for the record, 252 Atk Groudon-Primal U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Leavanny: 180-212 (50.8 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, so if they U-Turn you're taking at least like 75% with rocks up). Also, because of Giratina and Zygarde, pdon is seen running ice coverage a lot, which will definitely hurt Leavanny. In addition, its traditional checks put in much more work outside of checking pdon.
 
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Its definitely a unique team, but Speed Boost 90% outclasses Rattled. The sole advantage Rattled has is you can get a boost on the switch-in turn if you predict right. And, well, I suppose you can get a ton of boosts if you get hit by Pin Missile but... who uses Pin Missile? (...kinda hoping someone raises their hand with a straight face, I'd be curious to see on what set.) The downsides though? Only one boost per switch-in, requires some degree of prediction after revealing, is a literally useless ability against teams lacking Bug moves, and slow fat teams really don't care if you even got +6 speed from their U-turn because you're outspeeding their non-Pranksters anyway and they're sighing in relief you're not Normalize or something.

But if the goal is just for funsies rather than being hardcore-super-optimal-peak-ladder-in-6-games-and-win-all-tournaments, then its a pretty cool concept. Definitely outclassed for serious play, but looks at least viable-ish. Although, your replay really doesn't showcase it very well, I hate to say.
Pin Missile user here. I used it on a tech phero set alongside storm throw. Lets you (hopefully) ohko MMY, and it always OHKO's Deo-A.
 

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