Battle Spot Analyses Discussion Thread.

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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Hi, this thread is meant to primarily discuss one of two things: possible additions/updates to completed analysis and is the place to go to if you want to make a case for a Pokemon that doesn't have an analysis but believe it should receive one.

The first entails the following:

-Whether an analysis needs to be completely rehauled to fit the current metagame

-Whether a set needs to be added/updated

-Other small miscellaneous changes such as giving X move a slash on X Pokemon's set

The second should be self-explanatory, but if you believe that X Pokemon deserves an analysis, make sure nothing completely outclasses it and that it has a good enough niche.

You can also post here if you are not sure on what sets to add in your skeletons. Another option is to lurk in the Battle Spot room on Pokemon Showdown and ask QC members about it.
 
PikachuCandy brought this to my attention, what do you guys think about adding a Poison Heal set for Breloom instead of just OO?

Obviously sash is the more common and much better set, but poison heal plays a lot differently and I wouldnt say its unviable. Sub + Spore can be a scary combo and I think the poison heal set is a really nice tool against some defensive teams. Could be worth writing more about.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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Talonflame needs a revamp with the spdef stallbreaker set (something that's risen a lot in usage and something I'm currently using on my main team). I'll do it after Zard if nobody's up for it. I've checked all currently available singles analyses so I should be able to focus more on writing.
 

Ares

Fool me...can't get fooled again
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Does it need a full revamp or could that just be added on as a set?

Edit @ below: Just make an analyses like you're doing a full one except leave out the intro / oo / C&C. Then when its done it will just be added to the current Talonflame analyses.
 

DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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oh I thought adding a set is the same thing as a revamp. But yeah just add a set.

I can edit the dex and then ask you guys to cache it in, if that's easier.

Edit @ above: k
 
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cant say

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oh I thought adding a set is the same thing as a revamp. But yeah just add a set.

I can edit the dex and then ask you guys to cache it in, if that's easier.

Edit @ above: k
We still need to QC the set + details and get the writing GPed so we can't just go straight to the dex

Is it really that different from the physically defensive one (BB / WoW / Roost / Taunt with a Rocky Helmet) we already have on the dex? If it's just an EV / nature change it might just need a mention in set details in the current analysis...

edit: cool do it then n_n
 
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DragonWhale

It's not a misplay, it's RNG manipulation
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The moveset is the same but the item changes from helmet to lum (and maybe lefties). That set pretty much beats stall and aegi with ease. I'd like it to be its own set as the things it beat changes a lot from the rh set (not to mention it's more common than rh now)
 

cant say

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So when is someone gonna step up to the plate and do Suicune's singles analysis? Dividing the sets / coming up with 'standard' EV spreads that we're all happy with will be a little tricky but I think it's well overdue for it, I'd also be fine with having a Sheer Cold set even though we don't know what's happening with the Pentagon rule for now...

Anyone familiar enough with it? I've only used the leftovers one (and helmet a little bit) otherwise I'd do it lol.
 

Jibaku

Who let marco in here????
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Petitioning for this set (or if someone can test it)

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 4 Def / 228 Sdef / 28 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Roost

General idea:
- Great counter to burns, a common status used to otherwise severely impair Salamence
- Common burn inducers that this set can check: Rotom-W, Talonflame, Entei, Gengar, Blaziken. Can set up on Rotom-H but Rotom-H tends to carry HP Ice more often than Rotom-W so it's dangerous to deal with status + HP Ice
- Can set up on some of its common checks such as Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Suicune (at least until it decides to Sheer Cold spam and it hits). Sets up on Cresselia that lacks Thunder Wave/Skill Swap.
- Is additionally a solid check to Aegislash
- Can take an HP Ice from things like Blaziken, Volcarona, and Raikou. Salamence can beat all 3 1v1.
- Earthquake is still important for hitting Flying resists as unboosted Facade is pretty weak and won't really scratch if resisted.
- Watch out for Icy Wind Gengar.
- EVs maximize special bulk and allows Salamence to outrun Scarf Adamant Lando-T at +1. While in non-Mega form, Salamence can outrun Adamant Breloom.
 

cant say

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Petitioning for this set (or if someone can test it)

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 244 HP / 4 Atk / 4 Def / 228 Sdef / 28 Spe
Careful Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Facade
- Earthquake
- Roost

General idea:
- Great counter to burns, a common status used to otherwise severely impair Salamence
- Common burn inducers that this set can check: Rotom-W, Talonflame, Entei, Gengar, Blaziken. Can set up on Rotom-H but Rotom-H tends to carry HP Ice more often than Rotom-W so it's dangerous to deal with status + HP Ice
- Can set up on some of its common checks such as Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Suicune (at least until it decides to Sheer Cold spam and it hits). Sets up on Cresselia that lacks Thunder Wave/Skill Swap.
- Is additionally a solid check to Aegislash
- Can take an HP Ice from things like Blaziken, Volcarona, and Raikou. Salamence can beat all 3 1v1.
- Earthquake is still important for hitting Flying resists as unboosted Facade is pretty weak and won't really scratch if resisted.
- Watch out for Icy Wind Gengar.
- EVs maximize special bulk and allows Salamence to outrun Scarf Adamant Lando-T at +1. While in non-Mega form, Salamence can outrun Adamant Breloom.
Where did you find this set? it looks cool

checking the PGL, Careful usage % has gone from 0.5 > 1 > 4 > 6 so it's steadily gaining traction. If you wanna write it then be my guest
 

Theorymon

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Since Battle Spot Season 12 ends in about a month, I'd like to propose we try out a new, special kind of analysis.

I'd like for us to start a "pentagonless" analysis for each metagame (yes that includes Rotations and VGC). I imagine the format to be somewhat like a formal article with somewhat truncated analyses of each major Pokemon that gets changes, and a section maybe having more minor changes.

You may be asking "why not in the articles forum?" My reasoning is that we should probably make this a public affair so we can direct people to it even while its work in progress, since this lasts all season long, and we really don't know what gamefreak is gonna do next season! The idea is that if pentagonless stays, then we convert what we've written in these articles into actual analyses. If gamefreak reinstates the pentagon rule again, then we have a nice resource for the times they remove it!

I imagine these would be group affairs as well, so like say, one person writes one Pokemon, another writes one set, etc.
 
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PikachuCandy brought this to my attention, what do you guys think about adding a Poison Heal set for Breloom instead of just OO?

Obviously sash is the more common and much better set, but poison heal plays a lot differently and I wouldnt say its unviable. Sub + Spore can be a scary combo and I think the poison heal set is a really nice tool against some defensive teams. Could be worth writing more about.
Now that you mentioned it, I did see a Poison Heal Breloom that had Substitute, Spore, Focus Punch, and Rock Tomb. I must say it was pretty decent in surprising me due to being so focused on on thinking it was Technician that I switched out and my opponent used Substitute. Poison Heal is very nice in making a loop for HP recovery so it can set up more Subs. Speed control from like Tailwind and such would pair very well imo.

Poison Heal + Spore + SubPunch.

I guess Seed Bomb could be sashed on it if you don't want to run Rock Tomb; however, Rock Tomb gives out some nice coverage against Charizards, Talonflame, Volcarona, Thundurus, etc. Seed Bomb is to mainly hit Suicune, Hippo, and Azumarill.

It should have Adamant nature. Iirc it should run 12 EVs in HP due to Poison Heal recovery and the rest can go into Speed.

EDIT: I can be wrong. I'm a little shaky when it comes to EVs.
 
Talonflame needs a revamp with the spdef stallbreaker set (something that's risen a lot in usage and something I'm currently using on my main team). I'll do it after Zard if nobody's up for it. I've checked all currently available singles analyses so I should be able to focus more on writing.
I can agree with this. SpDef Talonflame has been increasing drastically in usage (Lum Berry and Careful nature have been on the rise this season), and for good reason. It can take on the likes of even Gengar and, to an extent, Suicune, although not by much. It is one of the best stallbreaker in the meta, and is almost never prepared for. My Heracross analysis is almost done, so I can potentially do a write up for that set.
 
On the new Metagross set for Battle Spot Singles, the first paragraph lists Garchomp as a Base 100 speed Pokemon, alothough it isn't.
 

cant say

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On the new Metagross set for Battle Spot Singles, the first paragraph lists Garchomp as a Base 100 speed Pokemon, alothough it isn't.
Thanks for pointing this out, I've removed Garchomp from the group.
Tagging the Battle Spot site staff so they can confirm the changes when they can.
cant say Hulavuta
But it still outspeeds Garchomp, which is a) how I read it and b) very important and shouldn't be removed entirely. The sentence should just say that Metagross outspeeds all those things (including Chomp), and make no mention of their stats.

I deleted that edit, make another one and I'll merge it if it's good. I'm on mobile so I can't edit it myself.

edit: way better, merged!
 
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bobochan

slow mo my bobo
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Sorry about that, second attempt.
Original:
Its base 110 Speed stat allows it to outspeed base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Mega Kangskhan, Garchomp, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, and Zapdos...
Now reads:
Its base 110 Speed stat allows it to outspeed Garchomp and base 100 Speed Pokemon such as Mega Kangskhan, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Charizard X, Mega Charizard Y, and Zapdos...
cant say
 
What do you guys think about Machamp getting a more formal BS Singles Analysis? He has a lucky niche in No Guard Dynamic Punch, and if you decide to run Guts with it, its far less likely your opponent would be aware of that, compared to Conkeldurr. Also, Machamp's inherent bigger special bulk helps him take some hits Conk can't as easily.
 
Idk it's not so common to write an analysis about (96th in usage last season) but if anyone should write one, it should probably be you.
 
I wonder, does anyone plan to analyse BS-Triples Greninja? I feel like he is decently usable, although it is very tricky indeed as Mat Block is less usable due to first turn mostly used for Fake out, team status moves, and the likes while late game requires speed control means in one's side, making this ninja heavily reliant to speed controls (or lack of it) despite great coverage as well.

I would want to try this, but I'm not experienced enough, and while I had been using him in my Triples, I can't really make variable spreads (mine are standard 252 EVs, even in Speed, and I don't know how to calculate stats in lv 50 settings) to capitalise stats exploits and am yet to make the best game with him, with Trick Room running amok in higher rating.

_______________________________
cant say edit: moved this to the discussion thread, shouldn't have been in the reservation thread.
 
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Have we considered making analysis sections for Battle Spot Doubles or Rotations?

Since BS Doubles is essentially VGC 2015, there are probably quite a few entries in the Smogon dex posted under VGC 2015 that are still relevant. However, if there are any that still need to be done, or just updated to more accurately reflect the current meta, I would be more than happy to help out with these.

I know Rotations isn't all that popular here or in general, but I would actually like to see more people start playing the format and I think that doing write-ups for some of the more commonly used Pokemon might inspire more players to get into it. I'm not sure if there are currently enough Rotation players to warrant making an entire section for it, but I'd like to see what others think. If not an entire section, then maybe just give an analysis to a few choice pokemon that are important to the meta and see how it goes from there.
 
Since BS Doubles is essentially VGC 2015, there are probably quite a few entries in the Smogon dex posted under VGC 2015 that are still relevant. However, if there are any that still need to be done, or just updated to more accurately reflect the current meta, I would be more than happy to help out with these.
All the VGC '15 analyses have been transferred over to Battle Spot Doubles thanks to myself. The VGC '15 analyses are also queued up to be deleted in order to avoid doubling up on the same content; it's just taking a while for that to be processed for whatever reason. I sent a message to the Battle Spot QC team a while back asking about future Battle Spot Doubles analysis revamps and additions, and I think it's just a matter of getting a seperate QC team together that's willing to put in the time needed. It'd be nice to hear an update on that actually.
 
Sorry to double post, but I have two points I'd like to bring up:
  1. On Azumarill's analysis the EV spread used on each of the sets is the fairly random 228 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpD / 4 Spe. The Set Details lists "general bulk" as the reason for this, but wouldn't 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def for the Belly Drum set and 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def for the others accomplish this better? With a Set Details mention of moving the last 4/12 points into Speed should you prefer to Speed creep. (See Post #26)
  2. I think Baton Pass should be removed from Lopunny's set. The move's usage right now is hovering around 3%, which is very low for a main set slash. It's not spoken about particularly highly in Moves as it is.
 
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Demantoid

APMS Founder
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I think there's this thing where hp>def+spd is less bulk. 228 hp should also make it so the hp is divisible by 4 which would make the Sitrus berry heal exactly 25% unlike 244 hp.
 

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