CaP Prevos - Embirch & Flarelm - Updates

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DHR-107

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As we all know, Pyroak got a huge raft of changes to his moveset when it came to the updates. This gives Embirch and Flarelm some room to have expanded learnsets!

I will post the full new learnset from Pyroak below. Here are the vital statistics of the next two mons on the docking!

Name: Embirch
Type: Fire / Grass
Abilities: Reckless / Leaf Guard / <Undetermined HA>
Stats:
60 / 40 / 55 / 65 / 40 / 60
Evolves Via: Level Up at Level 24
Height: 2'00" (0.6m)
Weight: 35lbs (15.0kg)
Movepool: TBD
Pokedex Entries:
Dex said:
Embirch, the Kindling Pokémon

Diamond: EMBIRCH strive to get tougher by charging at stronger foes. Over time, its scales grow to thick layers.
Pearl: It constantly looks for an opponent to fight. It is willing to launch fireballs to provoke them.
Platinum: After a battle, it mediates under the sun to restore its willpower and energy.
Sprites:


Name: Flarelm
Type: Fire / Grass
Abilities: Rock Head / Battle Armor / <Undetermined HA>
Stats:
90 / 50 / 95 / 75 / 70 / 40
Evolves Via: Level Up at Level 38
Height: 4'08" (1.4m)
Weight: 160lbs (73.0kg)
Movepool: TBD
Pokedex Entries:
Dex said:
Flarelm, the Torch Pokémon

Diamond: As it grows, the armor it wears grows with it. FLARELM whittles pieces of its armor to keep it lightweight and flexible.
Pearl: Its leaves are not only fireproof, but also release excess heat. Touching a FLARELM's leaf can leave second-degree burns.
Platinum: In battle, it awaits adversaries to attack it first. Then, it fires a powerful counterattack from its arm cannons.
Sprites:


Pyroak was updated with a number of new moves including: Aromatic Mist, Bulldoze, Burn Up, Dragon Pulse, Dragon Tail, Flame Burst, Flame Charge, Flash Cannon, Grassy Terrain, Heat Crash, Incinerate, Iron Head, Petal Blizzard, Round, Wild Charge and Zen Headbutt. It also gained the Hidden Ability White Smoke which allows it to block changes to its stats.

snake_rattler won Pyroak's updated movepool poll and the movepool can be found here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cap-updates-pyroak-discussion.3604632/page-3#post-7370053 (and I will post it below as well). You can also find the original movepools for Embirch and Flarelm here: Embirch and Flarelm - Part 5 - Movepool

Pyroaks Movepool:

- Double-Edge (Heart Scale)
- Wood Hammer (Heart Scale)
- Flare Blitz (Heart Scale)
- Flame Burst (requested evolve move for Flarelm) [Level 24]
- Sweet Scent
- Bullet Seed
Evolve: Energy Ball [Level 38]
5 Ember
10 Leech Seed
14 Synthesis
19 Flame Wheel
23 Seed Bomb
28 Growth
32 Giga Drain
37 Iron Defense
37 Amnesia
41 Heat Crash
46 Flash Cannon
50 Lava Plume
55 Petal Dance
59 Aromatic Mist
64 Zap Cannon
68 Burn Up
Aromatherapy
Counter
Dragon Breath
Fire Spin (Charizard, Turtonator)
Grass Whistle
Grassy Terrain (Venusaur, Meganium, Sceptile, Torterra)
Petal Blizzard (Venusaur, Meganium)
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport
Block
Earth Power
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Low Kick
Seed Bomb
Snore
Synthesis
Worry Seed

Block
Dragon Pulse
Earth Power
Giga Drain
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Iron Tail
Low Kick
Seed Bomb
Snore
Stealth Rock
Synthesis
Worry Seed
Zen Headbutt
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Façade
TM43 Flame Charge
TM44 Rest
TM48 Round
TM50 Overheat
TM53 Energy Ball
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM68 Giga Impact
TM69 Rock Polish
TM75 Swords Dance
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon
TM93 Wild Charge
TM96 Nature Power
TM100 Confide
Ancient Power (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Endure (Gen 4 TM58)
Flash (Gen 4 TM70)
Headbutt (Gen 4 Tutor)
Incinerate (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM59)
Mud-Slap (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Natural Gift (Gen 4 TM83)
Rock Smash (Gen 4 / ORAS HM06, Gen 5 / XY TM94)
Secret Power (Gen 4 TM43)
Strength (Gen 6 HM04)
Additions:
Aromatic Mist added to Level Up
Bulldoze added to TM List
Burn Up added to Level 64
Confide added to TM List
Dragon Pulse added to Tutor Moves
Dragon Tail added to TM List
Flame Burst added to Level 1 (requested evolve move for Flarelm)
Flame Charge added to TM List
Flash Cannon added to Level 37 and TM List
Grassy Terrain added to Egg Moves
Heat Crash added to Level 41
Incinerate added to Transfer Only
Iron Head added to Tutor Moves
Nature Power added to TM List
Petal Blizzard added to Egg Moves
Round added to TM List
Wild Charge added to TM List
Zen Headbutt added to Tutor List

Moved from one part of the movepool to another:
Ancient Power moved from Tutor Moves to Transfer Only
Double-Edge moved from Tutor Moves to
Fire Spin moved from Level 28 to Egg Moves
Endure moved from TM List to Transfer Only
Flash moved from TM List to Transfer Only
Giga Drain moved from TM List to Tutor Moves
Headbutt moved from Tutor Moves to Transfer Only
Iron Tail moved from TM List to Tutor Moves
Mud-Slap moved from Tutor Moves to Transfer Only
Natural Gift moved from TM List to Transfer Only
Rock Smash moved from HM List to Transfer Only
Secret Power moved from TM List to Transfer Only
Sleep Talk moved from TM82 to TM88
Stealth Rock moved from TM List to Tutor Moves
Strength moved from HM List to Transfer Only

Counter removed from Tutor Moves, already an egg move

Moved within Level Up:
Amnesia moved from Level 42 to Level 46
Ember moved from Level 9 to Level 5
Flame Wheel moved from Level 17 to Level 19
Giga Drain moved from Level 21 to Level 32
Growth moved from Level 5 to Level 28
Iron Defense moved from Level 42 to Level 46
Lava Plume moved from Level 54 to Level 50
Leech Seed moved from Level 13 to Level 10
Petal Dance moved from Level 36 to Level 55
Synthesis moved from Level 48 to Level 14
Zap Cannon moved from Level 60 to Level 59

Duplications:
Energy Ball duplicated from TM List to Evolve Move
Seed Bomb duplicated from Tutor Moves to Level 23

Overall, I want to unify Pyroak's somewhat all-over-the-place flavor aspects with its Level Up movepool and expand upon them with newer moves, bring back some of Pyroak's orignial flavor aspects, and not introduce new aspects to Pyroak's design (Rock Blast / Smack Down, Low Sweep).
This might be a bit confusing but I am sure snake_rattler can answer any questions people might have! Remember the golden rule in that please don't add anything NEW to the movepool and also do not change the egg moves!
Code:
Aromatherapy
Counter
Dragon Breath
Fire Spin (Charizard, Turtonator)
Grass Whistle
Grassy Terrain (Venusaur, Meganium, Sceptile, Torterra)
Petal Blizzard (Venusaur, Meganium)
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport
As I said in the Syclar update thread, try to avoid adding Transfer moves back into the movepool proper if you can avoid it. Otherwise, this works basically the exact same way as a normal movepool submission thread. I am allowing Final Submissions from the start of this thread, and you guys have a few days to discuss how you want things to be put together! Obviously do not add any other new moves other than those listed above. Please work from snake_rattlers movepool which was linked above as a baseline and compare it with Embirch & Flarelm's original movepool if you want too.

These will be voted on as pairs. Please make sure you compare and contrast Embirch's and Flarelm's movesets against each other so they make sense all the way through the evolution line!

Also are you guys happy to keep the same Hidden Ability in White Smoke? Or are you interested in changing things up?
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
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Ok, firstly White Smoke is a splendid idea. But I'd love To find out other ideas for Embirch, to carry on its difference from its evos ability wise.

Final Submissions

Embirch
0 Double Edge
0 Sweet Scent
0 Bullet Seed
5 Ember
9 Leech Seed
13 Synthesis
17 Flame Wheel
21 Seed Bomb
25 Growth
29 Giga Drain
34 Iron Defense
34 Amnesia
39 Lava Plume
43 Petal Dance
48 Zap Cannon


For Embirch, I made it have a 4-4-4 level up pattern til evolution, in which a 4-5-5 pattern develops. I basically kept to Pyroak's movepool, with a few notable exceptions. I paid homage to the original movepool creator's wishes by leaving out both Wood Hammer and Flare Blitz, as well as including Double Edge in its regular level up pool. I consciously omitted several moves however, that I believe Embirch would not be able to execute due to snakes's flavour reasoning. Heat Crash, due to Embirch not yet fully harnessing the ability to use fiery cloaked tackles. Also kicked Flash Cannon has It doubt it has the ability to fire light based attacks. Finally I fidn't Burn Up as Embirch just is not ready for it.

Edit: I think the consensus is Chlorophyll is the favoured ability for Embirch, so I removed Aromatic Mist.

Aromatherapy
Counter
Dragon Breath
Fire Spin (Charizard, Turtonator)
Grass Whistle
Grassy Terrain (Venusaur, Meganium, Sceptile, Torterra)
Petal Blizzard (Venusaur, Meganium)
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Façade
TM43 Flame Charge
TM44 Rest
TM48 Round
TM50 Overheat
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM69 Rock Polish
TM75 Swords Dance
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM96 Nature Power
TM100 Confide


Similar TM List, just removed Hyper/Giga and Earthquake. Removed Energy Ball for reasons explained in Flarelm's movepool. Kicked Flash Cannon for reasons stated in Level Up section.

Block
Earth Power
Giga Drain
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Iron Tail
Seed Bomb
Snore
Stealth Rock
Synthesis
Worry Seed
Zen Headbutt

Kicked Dragon Pulse as I don't think little Embirch should be able to produce draconic pulses. Also removed Low Kick as Embirch seems too timid to utilize this attack.

Endure (Gen 4 TM58)
Headbutt (Gen 4 Tutor)
Incinerate (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM59)
Mud-Slap (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Natural Gift (Gen 4 TM83)
Rock Smash (Gen 4 / ORAS HM06, Gen 5 / XY TM94)
Secret Power (Gen 4 TM43)

Flash isn't added for the same reasons as Flash Cannon and Ancient Power isn't usually prevalent on first stage mons. Strength was ultimately removed as I do not think Embirch is capable of such feats.


Flarelm
0 Double Edge
0 Sweet Scent
0 Bullet Seed
Evo Move: Flare Burst
5 Ember
9 Leech Seed
13 Synthesis
17 Flame Wheel
21 Seed Bomb
25 Growth
29 Giga Drain
34 Iron Defense
34 Amnesia
39 Flash Cannon
43 Lava Plume
48 Petal Dance
53 Aromatic Mist
57 Zap Cannon

Basically a lower level Pyroak in terms of leveling moves. I didn't include Burn Up as it still seems as if that should be a final evo exclusive. Made Flare Burst the Evo Move and made Double Edge a Heart Scale attack.

Aromatherapy
Counter
Dragon Breath
Fire Spin (Charizard, Turtonator)
Grass Whistle
Grassy Terrain (Venusaur, Meganium, Sceptile, Torterra)
Petal Blizzard (Venusaur, Meganium)
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport

TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Façade
TM43 Flame Charge
TM44 Rest
TM48 Round
TM50 Overheat
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM69 Rock Polish
TM75 Swords Dance
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon
TM93 Wild Charge
TM96 Nature Power
TM100 Confide


Removed the same moves as Embirch, with the exception of Flash Cannon and Earthquake n co. Reason for Energy Ball's removal as a TM is because it's Pyroak's evo move.

Block
Dragon Pulse
Earth Power
Giga Drain
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Iron Tail
Low Kick
Seed Bomb
Snore
Stealth Rock
Synthesis
Worry Seed
Zen Headbutt

Ancient Power (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Endure (Gen 4 TM58)
Flash (Gen 4 TM70)
Headbutt (Gen 4 Tutor)
Incinerate (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM59)
Mud-Slap (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Natural Gift (Gen 4 TM83)
Rock Smash (Gen 4 / ORAS HM06, Gen 5 / XY TM94)
Secret Power (Gen 4 TM43)
Strength (Gen 6 HM04)
 
Last edited:
For both of them, I would love to have their HA be Sap Sipper. To me they don't look like they could emit smoke. If not for Flarelm, at least give Sap Sipper to Embirch. In terms of balance, they don't care about using physical moves and quad resist Grass already, so I don't see the harm.
 
I'd have to agree with retaining White Smoke from Pyroak or implementing Chlorophyll so Embirch can have a niche in LC, but I don't have any suggestions for the movepool except for removing certain fully-evolved moves.
 
Last edited:
I think Chlorophyll is a good hidden ability. Embirch's dex entries imply obtaining energy from the sun, letting it make flavor sense, and it also lets Embirch be a really cool Pokemon in LC, having its current niche, as well as a really cool Sunny Day sweeper niche. I'd like to encourage discussion on this please!

s/o to snake_rattler for making this movepool with me!
Final Submission
- Double-Edge (Heart Scale)
- Sweet Scent
- Bullet Seed
5 Ember
10 Leech Seed
14 Synthesis
19 Flame Wheel
23 Seed Bomb
28 Growth
32 Giga Drain
37 Iron Defense
37 Amnesia
41 Lava Plume
46 Petal Dance
Egg Moves (Dragon / Monster) (close)
Aromatherapy
Counter
Dragon Breath
Fire Spin (Charizard, Turtonator)
Grass Whistle
Grassy Terrain (Venusaur, Meganium, Sceptile, Torterra)
Petal Blizzard (Venusaur, Meganium)
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport
Block
Earth Power
Giga Drain
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Iron Tail
Seed Bomb
Snore
Stealth Rock
Synthesis
Worry Seed
Zen Headbutt
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Façade
TM43 Flame Charge
TM44 Rest
TM48 Round
TM50 Overheat
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM75 Swords Dance
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM93 Wild Charge
TM96 Nature Power
TM100 Confide
Endure (Gen 4 TM58)
Headbutt (Gen 4 Tutor)
Incinerate (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM59)
Mud-Slap (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Natural Gift (Gen 4 TM83)
Rock Smash (Gen 4 / ORAS HM06, Gen 5 / XY TM94)
Secret Power (Gen 4 TM43)
Strength (Gen 6 HM04)
- Double-Edge (Heart Scale)
- Sweet Scent
- Bullet Seed
Evolve: Flame Burst
5 Ember
10 Leech Seed
14 Synthesis
19 Flame Wheel
23 Seed Bomb
28 Growth
32 Giga Drain
37 Iron Defense
37 Amnesia
46 Lava Plume
50 Petal Dance
Egg Moves (Dragon / Monster) (close)
Aromatherapy
Counter
Dragon Breath
Fire Spin (Charizard, Turtonator)
Grass Whistle
Grassy Terrain (Venusaur, Meganium, Sceptile, Torterra)
Petal Blizzard (Venusaur, Meganium)
Psybeam
Revenge
Sand Tomb
Water Sport
Block
Dragon Pulse
Earth Power
Giga Drain
Heat Wave
Iron Defense
Iron Head
Iron Tail
Low Kick
Seed Bomb
Snore
Stealth Rock
Synthesis
Worry Seed
Zen Headbutt
TM05 Roar
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM26 Earthquake
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM35 Flamethrower
TM38 Fire Blast
TM39 Rock Tomb
TM42 Façade
TM43 Flame Charge
TM44 Rest
TM48 Round
TM50 Overheat
TM61 Will-O-Wisp
TM69 Rock Polish
TM75 Swords Dance
TM78 Bulldoze
TM80 Rock Slide
TM82 Dragon Tail
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM91 Flash Cannon
TM93 Wild Charge
TM96 Nature Power
TM100 Confide
Ancient Power (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Endure (Gen 4 TM58)
Flash (Gen 4 TM70)
Headbutt (Gen 4 Tutor)
Incinerate (Gen 5 / Gen 6 TM59)
Mud-Slap (Gen 4 Move Tutor)
Natural Gift (Gen 4 TM83)
Rock Smash (Gen 4 / ORAS HM06, Gen 5 / XY TM94)
Secret Power (Gen 4 TM43)
Strength (Gen 6 HM04)
Embirch:
Flare Blitz, Wood Hammer, Heat Crash, Flash Cannon, Aromatic Mist, Zap Cannon, and Burn Up removed from Level up
Lava Plume 50->41
Petal Dance 55->46
Dragon Pulse and Low Kick removed from Tutor
Hyper Beam, Earthquake, Energy Ball, Giga Impact, Rock Polish, Dragon Tail, and Flash Cannon removed from TMs
Ancient Power and Flash removed from Transfer Only

Flarelm:
Flare Blitz, Wood Hammer, Heat Crash, Flash Cannon, Aromatic Mist, Zap Cannon, and Burn Up removed from Level up
Lava Plume 50->46
Petal Dance 55->50
Hyper Beam, Energy Ball, and Giga Impact removed from TMs

Notes on the movepool:
Gave Embirch Earth Power to break past Fire-types. Used a small baby grass mon theme for Embirch and a part Dragon part powerful fire/grass (so essentially a mini Pyroak) for Flarelm.
 
Last edited:

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
I'd go with Chlorophyll honestly. It much better references Embirch's Pokedex Entry, and it can also be applied to Flarelm if you think hard enough. If really want to though, we could probably give Embirch Chlorophyll and Flarelm White Smoke to better match its dex entries, but I personally think that giving them both Chlorophyll would be easier.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
I can get behind Chlorophyll. I actually like White Smoke better for Flarelm, as that matches up with the consistency of Embirch's abilities being different from Flarelm's and Pyroak's.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One For All
is a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I wholeheartly agree with Embirch gaining Chlorophyll and Flarelm getting White Smoke.
 

S. Court

[Takes hits in Spanish]
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
Well, I like the idea to add Chlorophyll for Embich and let White Smoke for Flarelm, this sounds fitting enough for me
 

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
is a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
Orange Islands
Hey all,

Looks like everyone has seemingly agreed on us getting Chlorophyll for Embirch, which turns into White Smoke when it evolves to match Pyroak. I'm not sure this happens in any real Pokemon, but I like that it keeps in with Embirch being "different" to its evolutions.

I'll be sorting out the poll for movepools shortly.
 
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