CAP Updates: Aurumoth Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Honestly I'd like to see Illuminate on it. Illuminate cus its shiny and all that stuff. Plus moths like the light.

But also you can kinda see Swarm on it, mainly because its a bug.
 

boxofkangaroos

this is the day of the expanding man
Illuminate still makes the most sense to me due to Aurumoth's access to Tail Glow, its bright eyes and tail, and the ability's lack of competitive effect.

Heavy Metal or Light Metal are interesting thematically and have very little competitive impact as snake_rattler explained, but these abilities have only been given to Steel-types and would just seem weird on Aurumoth.
 
Illuminate would be the Go-To flavor ability for a Bug Type / TG Mon, just as Telepathy is for a Psychic Type.
I really like Heavy Metal as it doesn't just go by Type stereotypes, but rather avtually focuses on Aurumoth's design.
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Illuminate is extremely risky because it increases wild encounter rate. It is the perfect ability for a risky Pokemon like Aurumoth. This sentence contains a subject, a verb, and risk.
 
I'd just like to point out that there is a small possibility that some players might even pick the third ability, even if it does nothing (like Illuminate), for the sole reason that it's the only drawback-less Ability in Aurumoth roster. When it comes to actually plying and overshadowing, nope. Such an ability won't ever overshadow the power of No Guard and Weak Armor sets, but it might actually - for some extremely niche applications - complement them.

Anyway, I like Illuminate the most (since Tail Glow and all that stuff) and possibly, someone before mentioned Pressure, which is nice for a threatening pseudo-Legendary and competitively is rarely anything more than an annoyance and this case is not the one (it can matter in case of very bulky walls that want to avoid being worn down by a high-power low-PP move - which basically means Lugia and some rare builds of Zapdos).
 

jas61292

used substitute
is a Community Contributoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Illuminate is nice, but I personally like Heavy Metal or Light Metal. While they might seem contradictory, each has some nice flavor reasoning behind them. As has been mentioned, Gold is a Heavy Metal, making that ability quite fitting.

On the other hand though, Light Metal has some other neat reasoning for it. While the basic reason would be that it is made of metal but floating, and thus being light makes sense, there is actually more to it than that. As I first mentioned back in the final product thread for the Aurumoth prevos, when selecting Cupra and Argalis's weight, I noticed something about Aurumoth. As you can see in Aurumoth's final product thread, bugmaniacbob chose Aurumoth's weight by calculating how much its wings would weigh if they were made of solid gold, based on its height. However, after calculating the weight of a wing, he just set that as the weight, rather than multiplying it by 6 first. As such, if Aurumoth is indeed made of gold it would be incredibly light considering that fact. Light Metal. Get it?
 
Echoing what Jas said on both illuminate and heavy metal, considering both its tail and its gold wings. However, I'll also advocate for Light metal a little more, based upon Aurumoth's Black Pokedex entry: Black: Their wings are made of solid gold. Mysteriously, the gold crumbles into dust when removed.

Just another reason I prefer Light Metal over Heavy Metal, the gold doesn't stay in its solid form when removed by people.
 
Essentially repeating what jasnumbers and Snor said about Light Metal, the gold crumbles into dust when removed by humans or other Pokémon. Not that other Pokémon would want to steal said gold, but that's aside the point. It's cool to know that bugmaniacbob had not multiplied the weight of the golden wings by six before adding it to the bug body, whether it was intentional or a mistake. jas61292 Was this intentional from bmb's point of view? In addition to that, Aurumoth's Psychic typing might allow the gold to weigh less than it would normally. Gold is a light-weight metal. Illuminati confirmed.
 
I personally would like to see Syncronize as the flavor ability for Aurumoth, as I feel it's a good ability in terms of the overall concept (though it's probably more risky to the opponent TBH), and it makes sense on the Psychic-type Aurumoth. Plus, it's very much outclassed by No Guard, and to a lesser extend Weak Armor, in terms of viability.

Though, if that doesn't work, Light Metal is good too.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
Light Metal is a very strong candidate and I very much support it. My personal favorite is Pressure, as it pushes Aurumoth's pseudo status, and doesn't really work competitively, as it is nearly outclassed by its other options. Illuminate makes sense, but I think the options are much more creative.
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Hello everyone. I'm posting here to announce what abilities will be on the slate as a result of our ability discussion. Additionally, I've decided to put a 24 hours deadline on this ability discussion to ensure that we don't drag it out any longer than neccessary. Therefore, if you like an ability that is not one of the four I will list, make a post about it now.

The four abilities that will be slated are Illuminate, Light Metal, Heavy Metal, and Pressure. All four of these abilities have received sufficient support in this thread, and none of them have any competitive use on Aurumoth. Other abilities people have brought up are Swarm, Telepathy, Own Tempo, Synchronize, and Clear Body; more discussion on them, focusing on how they lack competitive use on Aurumoth, should be our focus, as well as on any abilities people would like to see that haven't been brought up.

In short, Illuminate, Light Metal, Heavy Metal, and Pressure have already made the slate, and there is now a 24 hour deadline on this thread.
 

Quanyails

On sabbatical!
is a Top Artist Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I'll vouch for Swarm, since I like it as flavor. :P

Fellow competitively-used bugs like Scizor, Scolipede, and Volcarona have Swarm as an ability, but they go unused in favor of their more useful abilities. Aurumoth would be no different. Swarm boosts Bug-types moves at low health, but Aurumoth is defined more by its coverage than STABs. In particular, we can compare Aurumoth to Volcarona to argue why it won't be used. Volcarona has comparable bulk and Quiver Dance, yet people don't wager on Swarm activating to further boost Volcarona's damage.

On the other hand, Aurumoth fits well within the ranks of fellow Bug-type Pokemon--especially Scizor and Volcarona--as a Pokemon that would get Swarm. Additionally, several three-stage Bug-type lines have the final evolution having Swarm as an ability; Beedrill, Beautifly, Leavanny, and Scolipede. It just seems like a natural fit.

Illuminate fits because it gets Tail Glow and has glowing eyes. Light Metal is a clever nod to Aurumoth's typing and design, since Aurumoth lessens its weight by using its psychic abilities to lift its golden shells.

Otherwise, I don't like Clear Body, since the only non-inorganic line to get it is Tentacool and Tentacruel, and... well, they literally have clear, jellyfish bodies, and Aurumoth isn't similar. I'm also a little more worried about Clear Body for a setup sweeper (thinking about immunity to Sticky Web, specifically).

The other abilities not on the slate are okay, but they seem too generically Psychic and don't fit Aurumoth in particular as well.
 
Last edited:
The slate looks pretty solid to me, so I'll hold back my comments on those specific abilities for now.

Of the other abilities brought up, the only one that sorta bugs me is Clear Body. It's not a bad suggestion, but it just seems a tad bit too functional and not really flavorful enough compared to the other suggestions. Intimidate, Sticky Web, and even a Parting Shot immunity are all fairly useful things in this metagame, and it may be considered a useful ability over No Guard and Weak Armor in certain cases (sets that don't run horribly inaccurate moves and also don't appreciate Defense drops). I think we have better options to pick from here.
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
It's been over 24 hours since my last post, and since then I've decided to add Swarm to our final slate. As such, our slate now looks like:
Illuminate
Light Metal
Heavy Metal
Pressure
Swarm

I'll get the first poll for abilities up shortly, which will trim down the options to the top three. A follow up poll will then decide which ability goes on to replace Illusion. Afterwards we'll be jumping right into our flavour moves discussion, so now would be a good time to prepare for that if you haven't already.
 

cbrevan

spin, spin, spin
is a CAP Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
The second ability poll ended today, and Light Metal has been chosen by the voters to replace Illusion. With that done, we're now one our last stage for Aurumoth's update process, flavour moves and movepools. Our goal is to ensure Aurumoth's movepool is brought into today's era of Pokemon through the additions of moves from later generations. To this end, we'll be starting this stage off with a general discussion on whatever moves the people would like to bring up, so as to help jump start everyone's creative juices and to weed out any potentially competitive additions. After a certain point I've yet to determine, we'll open this thread to movepool submissions that will culminate in a movepool poll, and once thats said and done, Aurumoth will be updated fully.

I'd also like to remind everyone that earlier we decided that Aurumoth does not need any new competitive moves. Therefore, try to make sure that any additions you bring up now or are thinking about including in a future movepool submission are not competitively viable. If it has the potential to find a place on an existing set or otherwise affects Aurumoth's matchups in any meaningful way, then it will most likely not be within the scope of these additions.

Our guiding questions for this discussion will be:

What new non-competitive moves from Gen 6 and 7 should Aurumoth receive? Why do these moves hold no competitive value on Aurumoth? How do they relate to Aurumoth's typing, appearances, and other aspects of the Pokemon?

Here is a link to Aurumoth's movepool in case anyone needs a reference. We're almost to the end everyone; lets get this discussion going and end this update on a high note.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Master Procraster
is a CAP Contributor
Dazzling Gleam was mentioned earlier in the discussion as a possible competitive move addition, but it fits more as a consistency move as it is generally outclassed by its other options and STAB. Infestation also is a move that works fairly well with Aurumoth, as quite a large number of bug types get it, and it has multiple prevos to infest stuff. I'm thinking that First Impression may be too strong of a move to be considered consistency, so I'll hold off on recommending it. Lunge I'm also not super sure about, as only 6 Pokemon actually learn it, but I won't throw it out yet. Similar cases for Instruct and Speed Swap, although the latter might be more applicable to Aurumoth, but breeding would be a nightmare.
 
Dazzling Gleam I think is an interesting case. It is more than a fit with Aurumoth's design, matching up with the luminous tail and mystical feel. Furthermore, Fairy hits only Dark, Fighting, and Dragon Super Effectively, types which can already be hit by Bug Buzz, Psychic/shock, and No Guard Blizzard to greater effect. I don't really see how DGleam isn't outclassed by Auru's other moves, so I will throw my support behind it. In addition, I'll also throw my support in for Infestation for the same reasons Lucario gave above. In addition, I'll also throw my hat in the ring for Lunge. On Auru's physical set, this is completely outclassed by No Guard Megahorn in terms of power, and the attack drop from Lunge doesn't come in particularly useful. In addition, when looking at the mons that get it, they all have pointy aspects to their bodies, and Auru has horns. To me, this move's addition makes perfect sense.

In addition, should Aurumoth receive Dazzling Gleam, I would highly recommend the addition of Fairy Wind to the movepool. Aurumoth already learns Ominous Wind and Silver Wind, so adding a fairy move would only further add to the case for adding Fairy Wind. On the contrary side to this though, If Dazzling Gleam is largely rebuked, I would advise against adding Fairy Wind, as then there is no precedent for Auru to get a fairy move. But hey, if Jumpluff can learn all three wind moves then I would think a mystical pseudolegend bug would be able to as well.

Another addition that I would like to suggest is Spotlight. Aurumoth literally has a giant light on its bum. If Spotlight doesn't make sense for the flashlight bug, then I don't know what flavor is. The move itself has no effect in singles and the Z version only increases SpD by one stage, so there isn't anything to worry about competitive-wise.

As for the other moves suggested so far, First Impression seems strong for physical sets, and might detract from the use of Auru as a set up sweeper, by instead encouraging it to become a priority-based revenge killer with powerful back-up moves like close combat, zen headbutt, and megahorn. Instruct is a signature move, so I don't particularly like it as a flavor addition, but that's up to personal beliefs in my opinion. Lastly, Speed Swap is a very rare move with practically no singles use. I'm entirely neutral on it, but I will point out that there isn't a particular theme in how the move is spread other than the fully evolved forms have 100+ speed.
 
I think the only non-universal move Aurumoth absolutely should learn is Infestation. Other interesting options are Brutal Swing (Aurumoth swinging its large wings toward its foes) and maybe Fell Stinger (While powerful when it works, its probably too impractical to use). Dazzling Gleam and Spotlight would be interesting additions, but I think First Impression and Lunge are definitely way too strong, Aurumoth doesn't need any more physical options. I'm also not convinced about Fairy Wind, Masquerain learn both Ominous Wind and Silver Wind by leveling-up and most winged Bug-types also learn them by tutor or Gen IV TM, yet none of them gets Fairy Wind.
 
Infestation make plenty of sense, being on almost every Bug type already and lacking much competitive use. I doubt most people would contest it. The rest of the Bug moves (Lunge, Fell Stinger, and First Impression) I am strictly against. Fell Stinger just does not make sense to me, unless we are counting the horns as stingers, which is certainly not the case with any other Pokemon that get it (except maybe Surskit?). Lunge also seems out of place, as most of the Pokemon that get it have long thin legs on one part of their body or another (with, again, there being an exception in Mothim). First Impression is too strong.

Edit: Lunge has viability on a physical Weak Armor set and is certainly a more competitive move, giving further fuel for my disagreement with adding it

Dazzling Gleam makes sense, seeing how other "glowing" Pokemon also get it. I really like the suggestion of Speed Swap, and is something that makes sense with Aurumoth's typing. There aren't really any qualifications for the move, as pointed out by Okamu, but two Bug types do get it, and otherwise its restricted to Electric rodents.

Smart Strike makes sense given its wings being the blade type things and also makes sense given its Pokedex entries and new flavour ability. Laser Focus could also be interesting, but the only non-Legendary to get it is Lucario.
 
Last edited:
Ok I agree with all the suggestions such as Dazzling gleam, infestation, Fairy wind and lunge.

But I'd also like to throw in Smart Strike. Nearly everything with a horn (and togekiss apparently) can get it, and it won't do too much competitively as auromoth has no need for such a low base power steel move. I can also suggest Psychic terrain. No not the ability that auto sets it, just the move in general. It makes sense flavour wise and it isn't a signature move. Seeing auromoth able to change the terrain, as it is a pseudo magical bug is just so fitting.
 

Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
I do have some worries about Infestation given that while it is infinitely weaker than Heatran's Magma Storm, it's 100% Accuracy can be used to great effect to trap and KO an opponent with the appropriate Z-Move. It also works great with Aurumoth's boosting options should it be able to trap anything passive.

Dazzling Gleam feels too competitive to me, Fairy is a great offensive type and I feel like it would actually make it on a set, Specifically No Guard with Tail Glow/Overheat/Focus Blast/Dazzling Gleam. It may seem strange to not run STAB, but Dazzling Gleam has better neutral coverage and allows Auru to steamroll Mega Sableye which can generally handle Overheat/Focus Blast/Psychic.

Psychic Terrain seems like a fitting flavor move with some competitive implications, but it's weaker as an individual booster than Tail Glow or Quiver Dance.

Spotlight is a great flavor move with obviously no competitive implications in singles.

I've always liked Gravity for Aurumoth as it replicates No Guard Accuracy, but allows you to run Weak Armor instead, and it actually does shut down Lando and Gyarados if they already used their Z-Crystal.

Finally, the most important move that Aurumoth never recieved, but by all rights should: Pay Day. It's made of money, people >_>
 
Psychic Terrain is a move that will certainly go unused, as all the terrain moves did last gen, so I don't see a problem with this. Spotlight is somewhat reasonable to me, and is completely useless unless we make a CAP Doubles (which I'd like but that's a different topic for another day). Gravity, on the other hand, seems a little bit too competitive to me for the reasons Deck mentioned, but those reasons make me not want it. It might become viable in the same way that Mew can use Gravity well, but for different reasons. Infestation and Dazzling Gleam also seem like bad ideas due to reasons mentioned earlier in the thread.
 

lost heros

Meme Master
So I was looking through Aurumoth's learnset and have a few suggestions.

Confusion and Psywave seems like a pretty basic psychic type moves that Auru should have in it's level up moveset considering it doesn't get any psychic move upon level up now.

I strongly support Psychic Terrain as it's a pretty flavorful psychic type move, that's also pretty useless competitively.

As for bug-type moves, Fell Stinger and Lunge are both too powerful moves that could be used on DDance sets or just on Physical Weak Armor sets. Infestation, while not powerful, could allow Aurumoth to come in and trap a passive pokemon, letting it set up easily and proceed to sweep. First Impression seems too powerful sporting a 90 BP and +2 priority STAB.

Dazzling Gleam and Spotlight makes sense flavor wise, what with Auruomoth being made of literal gold. Although Dazzling Gleam might be some what competitive, imo different coverage options are better with single or dual STAB, but I understand if it won't be included.
 

snake

is a Community Leaderis a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
CAP Co-Leader
The question of Aurumoth I've got to ask is, "Is Aurumoth" as a pseudo legendary a "good type", like say Dragonite is, is one that's more sort of creepy?, like Spiritomb is?" Given it's psychic and bug types, I'm leaning a little bit towards the latter - so suggestions for a few "weird" type moves I think are in order (especially going from its artwork) - although these do include some current signature moves;

Crafty Shield, Eerie Impulse, Forest's Curse, Freeze-Dry, Magnetic Flux, Nuzzle, Phantom Force, Topsy-Turvy, Trick-or-Treat, Aurora Veil, Instruct, Laser Focus, Prismatic Laser, Psychic Terrain, Shell Trap, Spirit Shackle, Spotlight, Toxic Thread.

A few of these are already mentioned, but a few aren't. Spotlight, for example, follows on and matches from Tail Glow - it's from that, combined with it's nature as a precious metal, I've tentatively included Prismatic Laser (arguably worse than Psychic given that it cannot act afterwords), and Laser Focus to represent more direct "beams" of light - it already has Solar, Ice and Hyper Beam after all.

Nuzzle and Magnetic Flux are slightly strange options - but given it already has access to Thunderbolt/Thunder, while Eerie Impulse is a throwback to not only it's Ominous Wind, but also the suggestion of including Pressure, despite being an Electric Type move, gold is after all highly conductive. Following on from Ominous Wind - that's also the suggestion for Phantom Force, as is Spirit Shackle.

Freeze-Dry follows on from Icy Wind, and Aurora Veil combines with some of its "weirdness" aspect in its ability to manipulate weather slightly - it has Sunny Day, Rain Dance and Hail after all, so being able to mess around with the upper atmosphere as a Psychic Legendary seems to fit.

As for the rest of the weird moves - Forest's Curse, Topsy-Turvy, Trick-or-Treat, Instruct, and Psychic Terrain all being possible options to put this across - manipulating typing, other pokemon's actions, their stats, or simply the actual battleground in itself.

And what this leaves is Toxic Thread Shell Trap, and Crafty Shield - which was intended to suggest how it makes it's cocoon, using Crafty Shield to avoid the Poison from Toxic Thread. Would suggest if these were to be included, they were from a previous evolution for flavour use, in order to protect the previous metal from which it was made using Shell Trap. Crafty Shield being Fairy Type could fit in with Fairy Wind and Dazzling Gleam if those suggestions are included.

I personally think that between its current move-set all of these moves have preferential options, apart from niche applications of Freeze Dry, and Prismatic Laser, and maybe Spirit Shackle to Psychic Types (despite that Psychic Type unlikely to remain in due to having 1/4x damage vs Aurumoth anyway.
Spirit Shackle is a trapping move, which would be a ridiculously competitive addition to Aurumoth, as it allows Aurumoth to set up Dragon Dance against more passive targets and break through would-be checks like Kitsunoh and Mega Metagross. If you're going to post about flavor moves, you have to show how each move fits flavor AND isn't competitive. Prismatic Laser is a legendary sig and is definitely a competitive addition onto Aurumoth. There are a few other moves here that I don't want to elaborate on, but you need to show how each move isn't competitive in addition to showing flavor.
 

Quanyails

On sabbatical!
is a Top Artist Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
I support Infestation as flavor, and I don't see it being competitively used. Aurumoth doesn't get as many opportunities to set up without Illusion, and I doubt it'd use a move slot on Infestation when it benefits so much more from a coverage move.

I support Dazzling Gleam as flavor, too. It has a light on its tail and has shiny wings, and a lot of other Psychic-type Pokemon get it, so why should Aurumoth be averse? It doesn't contribute much more than what its wide movepool already allows, and the only thing it hits better than its STABs are Dragon-types, and Aurumoth prefers Ice Beam or Blizzard if it wants to handle those.

Spotlight also gets a weak vote of approval for me. I'm also not completely against Brutal Swing, Psychic Terrain, and Speed Swap.

I'm not fond of that many other flavor options. Yes, Aurumoth is the "legendary bug" with a ridiculous movepool, but that is no excuse to go overboard. I think of Aurumoth like Aggron or something in movepool; it gets a lot of coverage but nothing that is exclusive to few Pokemon.

First Impression is definitely competitive, since it's strong STAB priority when Aurumoth has none.

I don't like Smart Strike, since a lot of Pokemon with branching horns (Heracross, Sawsbuck, Xerneas) don't get it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top