I'm going to give my support for Sturdy. The only thing it can be used for is to be a Z-Move absorber, but then becomes useless.
-
The moderators of this forum can be found in the CAP forum staff directory.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
CAP Updates: Pyroak Discussion (Complete)
- Thread starter sparktrain
- Start date
- Status
Of everything mentioned so far, my two personal favorites are Leaf Guard and Anger Point.
Leaf Guard is incredibly flavorful, what with its armor being plant matter and all, and I really think it is a prime example of an ability that technically has use, but is far inferior to Battle Armor. Yes, the theoretical ability to be immune to poison in Sun is neat, but Sun is not common, and when it us used, it is limited enough to not be a significant boost. A Pyroak afraid of poison is better off running Aromatherapy than using such a situational ability.
Anger Point is cool because I can totally see how a Pyroak could get very mad. I mean, looking at it makes me mad half the time, so I can only imagine what it must be like to be one. And, of course, physical Pyroak is trash incarnate, and this ability is obviously even worse for physical Pyroak than what it already has, so it won't be a noob trap. Makes perfect sense to me.
Leaf Guard is incredibly flavorful, what with its armor being plant matter and all, and I really think it is a prime example of an ability that technically has use, but is far inferior to Battle Armor. Yes, the theoretical ability to be immune to poison in Sun is neat, but Sun is not common, and when it us used, it is limited enough to not be a significant boost. A Pyroak afraid of poison is better off running Aromatherapy than using such a situational ability.
Anger Point is cool because I can totally see how a Pyroak could get very mad. I mean, looking at it makes me mad half the time, so I can only imagine what it must be like to be one. And, of course, physical Pyroak is trash incarnate, and this ability is obviously even worse for physical Pyroak than what it already has, so it won't be a noob trap. Makes perfect sense to me.
It's a little weird giving Pyroak Leaf Guard when Embirch already has it as an ability. :S That's my only complaint about the option.
Magma Armor isn't too out of the question when Embirch's leaves are fireproof, although it does feel weird, since Pyroak doesn't have a strong connection to magma, compared to the Slugma line (which is magma) and Camerupt (which has volcano humps).
Besides Overcoat, I'm cool with Shell Armor, Own Tempo, and Anger Point. A lot of other options compete with Battle Armor in usefulness.
Magma Armor isn't too out of the question when Embirch's leaves are fireproof, although it does feel weird, since Pyroak doesn't have a strong connection to magma, compared to the Slugma line (which is magma) and Camerupt (which has volcano humps).
Besides Overcoat, I'm cool with Shell Armor, Own Tempo, and Anger Point. A lot of other options compete with Battle Armor in usefulness.
If we're going with "that Pyroak's hidden ability should be entirely or almost entirely based on flavor," I'd like to point out that Grass Pelt isn't even that great of a flavor ability either.
Grass covering a good portion of the body
Leaves covering part of the body
I rest my case.
I'm going to have to disagree with your Sturdy suggestion too :(
We have a perfect example of a mon with acceptable bulk, phazing, and reliable recovery that we can compare Sturdy Pyroak to, Skarmory. Sturdy allows Skarmory to not only survive just Z moves but also strong super effective hits. You could be snowballing with Nihilego, have set up a Coil with Mega Crucibelle, or actually set up with Cawmodore with success and then you realize that Pyroak's come in and hasn't have any chip damage yet, phaze you out, and recover with Synthesis. Granted, it puts the Pyroak in critical condition, but you've stopped a sweep. Sturdy becomes first slash on Pyroak sets easily.
-------
On sun abilities, (no not Drought), Chlorophyll hasn't gotten any coverage yet. I can't say that you can slash it on every set with sun teams being so few and far between, but turning Pyroak into a bulky sun sweeper doesn't sound like all that great of an idea, especially considering the ease at which it can set up Growth boosts and proceed to hit everything with Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Earth Power, or heck Electrium Z Zap Cannon for sniping them Pelippers. Not going to pass complete judgement yet over it, but I felt like it was odd that it wasn't bolded in a thread for a Fire- and Grass-type.
Previously in the chatroom I disagreed with Leaf Guard because it is the secondary ability of Embirch, and that I didn't recall any cases of a normal ability for a pre-evolution turning into a Hidden Ability for an evolution. However, Cubone gets Rock Head as its primary ability, and Marowak-A gets it for its Hidden Ability, so there is a case for precedence. Leaf Guard is basically useless competitively because you can't pull off the same sort of Hydration + Rest combo (Hydration heals status conditions at the end of the turn, Leaf Guard blocks them entirely).
White Smoke and Rivalry cover Pyroak's dex entries (#1 and #3 respectively). #2 has already been covered by Battle Armor. I also like Anger Point quite a bit.
I'd rather avoid Shell Armor because...let's think of what other Pokemon has an ability and a hidden ability that do the same exact thing.
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,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
Pyroak is supposed to EAT Delibird (well, supposedly a lot of the old caps have a healthy quantity of Delibird in their diet). How could we be suggesting that we make Pyraok's abilities mirror Delibird's stupidity? This is outrageous.
Pyroak is supposed to EAT Delibird (well, supposedly a lot of the old caps have a healthy quantity of Delibird in their diet). How could we be suggesting that we make Pyraok's abilities mirror Delibird's stupidity? This is outrageous.
Last edited:
ma 2 cents
Pyroark is perfectly fine as is, but should probably get a borderline competitive HA for consitancys sake, albeit something which is less impactful than Battle Armour. From the ones I have seen discussed, I'm personally leaning away from Grass Pelt and Sturdy as it could be argued to be a buff as it allows Pyroak to take hits and fulfill roles it currently struggles with - Stone Edge/ Z move Bulu and revenging Mega Pinsir Respectivley(not a brilliant example of the perks of sturdy but a realistic one)
The abilities that have caught my eye are Leaf Guard, Keen Eye and Overcoat; mostly because they fit the flavour of Pyroak whilst also offering a marginal, admittedly minimal, effect on viability with with 2 of these abilities having the potential to be utilised in synergy with weather, which has a potential to increase its usage on teams using either sun or sand.
Overall none of these outshine battle armour, as it is already a great fitting ability for Pyroak, which is what i think the outcome of this update should achieve
Pyroark is perfectly fine as is, but should probably get a borderline competitive HA for consitancys sake, albeit something which is less impactful than Battle Armour. From the ones I have seen discussed, I'm personally leaning away from Grass Pelt and Sturdy as it could be argued to be a buff as it allows Pyroak to take hits and fulfill roles it currently struggles with - Stone Edge/ Z move Bulu and revenging Mega Pinsir Respectivley(not a brilliant example of the perks of sturdy but a realistic one)
The abilities that have caught my eye are Leaf Guard, Keen Eye and Overcoat; mostly because they fit the flavour of Pyroak whilst also offering a marginal, admittedly minimal, effect on viability with with 2 of these abilities having the potential to be utilised in synergy with weather, which has a potential to increase its usage on teams using either sun or sand.
Overall none of these outshine battle armour, as it is already a great fitting ability for Pyroak, which is what i think the outcome of this update should achieve
Yeah, Sturdy is actually a very possibly scary option, although it does have flavor implications. I'm personally throwing my support to Leaf Guard and Keen Eye. Leaf Guard works well with its Grass typing and design unlike Magma Armor, while Keen Eye has minimal affect on a battle, if any at all.
In this post, I'd like to further elaborate on Chlorophyll and propose Blaze and Overgrow. While there hasn't been too much of a struggle over Chlorophyll, it seems like an obvious candidate for a Hidden Ability on Pyroak, so I decided to give a little bit of analysis on it.
I haven't formed an opinion on Chlorophyll. First, I want to elaborate on how, while it's similar to Grass Pelt, it's actually very different. It's conditional like Grass Pelt, but there are a few key differences that cause it to not be as glaring as Grass Pelt. First, sun abusing teams in general and Mega Charizard Y are not as common as Tapu Bulu. Second, it doesn't cause Pyroak's Defense to go through the roof and check things it shouldn't defensively (see my post on page 1 for that). With Grass Pelt, Pyroak can effectively check Choice Band Tapu Bulu (auto Grassy Terrain setter) but with Chlorophyll, Pyroak cannot effectively check Mega Charizard Y. Finally, to fully abuse Chlorophyll, you have to run Max Speed and Max Special attack, meaning you can't just secondary slash it onto a normal defensive set with Battle Armor.
On one hand, Chlorophyll doesn't really overshadow Battle Armor because it doesn't bolster Pyroak's defenses so high that's they're completely bonkers, and it won't activate all that often, especially with how limiting sun teams are. In addition, you have to stack multiple Stealth Rock-weak teammates if you want a Drought user, on the team, and it's a bit outclassed by Venusaur as a Chlorophyll sweeper given that Pyroak is a little less powerful, is a lot slower (meaning that Choice Scarfers can outspeed it), and doesn't have access to Sleep Powder to incapacitate a foe while sweeping in the sun.
On the other, Chlorophyll does give Pyroak a new niche, and I'm not sure if this is the the direction we want to go with this update. Unlike Venusaur, Pyroak actually has natural bulk to tank hits and set up a Growth. Here are some some sets I've come up with (haven't tested them).
I feel like the second set would see the most usage, but these are the three that I came up with off of the top of my head. Chlorophyll certainly gives new niches to Pyroak that do not buff its defenses on its defensive set, which is something I think we need to not focus on for the update. I will edit in calcs and my conclusion later on whether Chlorophyll Pyroak truly would be a good sun sweeper on its own right, but my initial impressions is that it's pretty strong. For now, I just wanted to show you guys my thoughts so you can be thinking about it too :)
EDIT: After some consideration, I believe Chlorophyll to be too powerful for the scope of this update. Blaze and Overgrow are much better options.
-----
Now for Blaze and Overgrow. While these abilities are usually locked onto starters, the monkey things have access to these abilities, and while they're another trio, I don't think it's necessarily terrible for optics to include one of these abilities.
These abilities are cool because they give Pyroak a nice power boost to its defensive set (again, it's not buffing its defenses) when it's low on health. However, they are very conditional, as Pyroak would much rather be above 33% health most of the time, and it can't abuse these abilities very well, unlike Grass Pelt and Chlorophyll for example. It'd be a tradeoff - no critical hits, or a potentially powerful Lava Plume or Giga Drain one or twice in a given battle (since the opponent will probably be able to KO Pyroak if it's under 33%.
If I had to pick, Blaze would be best because Pyroak always uses Lava Plume as a STAB, whereas it sometimes uses Giga Drain (Earth Power would be the alternative usually). However, Overgrow gives Pyroak a more powerful Giga Drain on the turn the opponent knocks it down to below 1/3 and heals off more damage than it normally would. The tradeoff between conditional extra power (Blaze or Overgrow) and no critical hits (Battle Armor) is enough to make the Pyroak user have to decide which one to use.
EDIT: Also, any non-starter who has access to this ability has access to it via Hidden Ability.
I haven't formed an opinion on Chlorophyll. First, I want to elaborate on how, while it's similar to Grass Pelt, it's actually very different. It's conditional like Grass Pelt, but there are a few key differences that cause it to not be as glaring as Grass Pelt. First, sun abusing teams in general and Mega Charizard Y are not as common as Tapu Bulu. Second, it doesn't cause Pyroak's Defense to go through the roof and check things it shouldn't defensively (see my post on page 1 for that). With Grass Pelt, Pyroak can effectively check Choice Band Tapu Bulu (auto Grassy Terrain setter) but with Chlorophyll, Pyroak cannot effectively check Mega Charizard Y. Finally, to fully abuse Chlorophyll, you have to run Max Speed and Max Special attack, meaning you can't just secondary slash it onto a normal defensive set with Battle Armor.
What you can do:
Pyroak @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor / Grass Pelt
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Synthesis
- Stealth Rock
You can do this without any repercussions, which makes Grass Pelt overshadow Battle Armor.
What you cannot do:
Pyroak @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor / Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Synthesis
- Stealth Rock
For reference: 0 SpA Pyroak Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 55-66 (18.5 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO
Here, Chlorophyll provides only marginal benefit - you reach 312 Speed when active (hooray?), so a defensive set is either forced to run speed to actually make use of it. Here, Battle Armor is the better ability, so Chlorophyll does nothing but force Pyroak to run new sets.
Pyroak @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor / Grass Pelt
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Synthesis
- Stealth Rock
You can do this without any repercussions, which makes Grass Pelt overshadow Battle Armor.
What you cannot do:
Pyroak @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor / Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD or 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Synthesis
- Stealth Rock
For reference: 0 SpA Pyroak Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y in Sun: 55-66 (18.5 - 22.2%) -- possible 5HKO
Here, Chlorophyll provides only marginal benefit - you reach 312 Speed when active (hooray?), so a defensive set is either forced to run speed to actually make use of it. Here, Battle Armor is the better ability, so Chlorophyll does nothing but force Pyroak to run new sets.
On the other, Chlorophyll does give Pyroak a new niche, and I'm not sure if this is the the direction we want to go with this update. Unlike Venusaur, Pyroak actually has natural bulk to tank hits and set up a Growth. Here are some some sets I've come up with (haven't tested them).
Pyroak @ Electrium Z
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam / Giga Drain
- Zap Cannon
- Growth
Abusing Electric-type's neutral coverage, especially with Growth boosts, looks a bit scary. The lack of a boosting item doesn't help Pyroak's lousy 95 Special Attack though.
Pyroak @ Life Orb / Firium Z
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam / Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Growth / Synthesis
This one abuses Pyroak's coverage the best it can. You get walled by too many things if you run both Growth and Synthesis.
Pyroak @ Heat Rock
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (there might be a bulkier spread that works better)
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Synthesis / Growth
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power / Solar Beam
Pyroak could run a sun setting set itself and try to abuse the speed boost to boost or heal off damage while having good coverage with Fire Blast / Earth Power or Fire Blast / Solar Beam.
The choice between a Modest Nature and a Timid Nature depends on whether you want extra power and want to reach 438 Speed (speed ties with Mega Alakazam) or have a little less power and reach 480 speed (just barely outspeeds Base 95 Scarfers like Tapu Lele and Volkraken).
Given sun abusing teams' general difficulty with Chansey, Pyroak could boost enough with Growth and slam Chansey with a sun-boosted Flare Blitz, but this siutation seems a little difficult to actually pull off.
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam / Giga Drain
- Zap Cannon
- Growth
Abusing Electric-type's neutral coverage, especially with Growth boosts, looks a bit scary. The lack of a boosting item doesn't help Pyroak's lousy 95 Special Attack though.
Pyroak @ Life Orb / Firium Z
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam / Giga Drain
- Earth Power
- Growth / Synthesis
This one abuses Pyroak's coverage the best it can. You get walled by too many things if you run both Growth and Synthesis.
Pyroak @ Heat Rock
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (there might be a bulkier spread that works better)
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Synthesis / Growth
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power / Solar Beam
Pyroak could run a sun setting set itself and try to abuse the speed boost to boost or heal off damage while having good coverage with Fire Blast / Earth Power or Fire Blast / Solar Beam.
The choice between a Modest Nature and a Timid Nature depends on whether you want extra power and want to reach 438 Speed (speed ties with Mega Alakazam) or have a little less power and reach 480 speed (just barely outspeeds Base 95 Scarfers like Tapu Lele and Volkraken).
Given sun abusing teams' general difficulty with Chansey, Pyroak could boost enough with Growth and slam Chansey with a sun-boosted Flare Blitz, but this siutation seems a little difficult to actually pull off.
EDIT: After some consideration, I believe Chlorophyll to be too powerful for the scope of this update. Blaze and Overgrow are much better options.
-----
Now for Blaze and Overgrow. While these abilities are usually locked onto starters, the monkey things have access to these abilities, and while they're another trio, I don't think it's necessarily terrible for optics to include one of these abilities.
These abilities are cool because they give Pyroak a nice power boost to its defensive set (again, it's not buffing its defenses) when it's low on health. However, they are very conditional, as Pyroak would much rather be above 33% health most of the time, and it can't abuse these abilities very well, unlike Grass Pelt and Chlorophyll for example. It'd be a tradeoff - no critical hits, or a potentially powerful Lava Plume or Giga Drain one or twice in a given battle (since the opponent will probably be able to KO Pyroak if it's under 33%.
If I had to pick, Blaze would be best because Pyroak always uses Lava Plume as a STAB, whereas it sometimes uses Giga Drain (Earth Power would be the alternative usually). However, Overgrow gives Pyroak a more powerful Giga Drain on the turn the opponent knocks it down to below 1/3 and heals off more damage than it normally would. The tradeoff between conditional extra power (Blaze or Overgrow) and no critical hits (Battle Armor) is enough to make the Pyroak user have to decide which one to use.
Pyroak @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor / Blaze (or Overgrow, depending on which one we choose out of the two)
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Synthesis
- Stealth Rock
Ability: Battle Armor / Blaze (or Overgrow, depending on which one we choose out of the two)
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Synthesis
- Stealth Rock
Last edited:
I actually don't support Leaf Guard due to one of its evolutions having it as a main ability, and it would be very weird to lose an ability, only to get it back as a hidden ability.
Anyways, Mega Launcher seems like a good option, as A) No set featuring Pulse moves would be all that viable. B) Look at those arm cannons!
Anyways, Mega Launcher seems like a good option, as A) No set featuring Pulse moves would be all that viable. B) Look at those arm cannons!
I'd rather avoid Mega Launcher. What happens if there's a Fire-type pulse move or a Grass-type pulse move that Pyroak would appreciate in the future but can't due to the fact that we added Mega Launcher as flavor? That could be constricting in the future.
I know I said Mega Launcher as a joke, currently Pyroak doesn't even get Pulse Moves, it knows Dragon Breath and theoretically we could give it Dragon Pulse and stay in flavor bounds. Even then it's not like Pyroak is going to start running a Specs set with Overheat / Giga Drain / Dragon Pulse / Earth Power.
We could do that, but why? It's just another noob trap like Rock Head. "Oh dang it they told me SD Rock Head was a bad set; let me try Mega Launcher Dragon Pulse instead!" I'd like avoid Mega Launcher for the same reason I'd like to avoid Head Smash Stratagem (as cool as Mega Launcher Pyroak would look ngl).
I feel like Blaze and Overgrow are better options, and maybe Chlorophyll (will be getting around to calcing soon).
I agree with snake. Blaze Overgrow and Chlorophyll are much better options if you guys insist on giving Pyroak a hidden ability. Blaze and Overgrow just make sense in my opinion. They hold little to no competitive value and are most often found on the Starters in-game. Not to mention they all make sense flavor wise.
I am in most agreement with the Grass abilities Chlorophyll and Overgrow because I appreciate Pyroak being more of a grass based Pokemon then a Fire one. This is just my opinion and means absolutely nothing in terms of what should happen.
I don't care that much about n00b traps as a concern if the flavor is sound, I think this thread has just been overly melodramatic.
I'll stick with what I said before, sparktrain will make a good slate based on nom-hyperbolic consensus and we'll move from there.
I'll stick with what I said before, sparktrain will make a good slate based on nom-hyperbolic consensus and we'll move from there.
Yeah prople are getting a little bit too restrictive with abilities just because of the chance of X or Y happening. I gey Pyroak is a solid mon and all but come on now guys lets not turn everything into a doomsdah scenario (especially incredibly niche ones).
I have to agree with the idea of Rivalry as the flavor Ability because Pyroak are implied to compete against one another for power, based on snek's mention of Oak's 3rd Dex Entry. It's also quite situational compared to Battle Armor, as genders are set to random, rather than the male appearance being the default as was back in early BW. There isn't much to take advantage of with Rivalry. However, it may get confused with Pyroar outside of CAP due to the lion's access to the same Ability.
White Smoke fits Pyroak's Fire typing quite nicely despite only being given to Torkoal and Heatmor. The former of the two prefers to use Drought, while Oak would rather utilize immunity to critical hits, rather than to stat drops, as the tank he is.
White Smoke fits Pyroak's Fire typing quite nicely despite only being given to Torkoal and Heatmor. The former of the two prefers to use Drought, while Oak would rather utilize immunity to critical hits, rather than to stat drops, as the tank he is.
I've seen a good few of people say that Overcoat helps Pyroak against weather teams, but it's not all that true. Since Hail teams are basically unviable, Sand teams will be the point of focus. However, Synthesis, Pyroak's best move, gets nerfed to 33% recovery, and the immunity to chip damage doesn't really come into play all that often. The only relevant calculation I could find where it actually matters is Choice Band Tyranitar vs. Defensive Pyroak, but at that point, improving the chances of a KO from small to a little bit bigger doesn't really matter when Pyroak loses the match up anyways.
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Pyroak Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 104-126 (30.4 - 36.8%) -- 59.1% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 384-452 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Pyroak Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 104-126 (30.4 - 36.8%) -- 59.1% chance to 3HKO
I also support Blaze and Overgrow for Pyroak's flavor ability. Blaze in my personal opinion fits better as it makes more sense that it would get more fired up as the battle progresses. It is possible that this can buff its Lava Plume at 33%, but most player will use a Synthesis either way, or won't be able to survive the next hit. It also doesn't buff its defensive prowess, so using it wouldn't change any defensive calcs. Yes, it may overshadow Battle Armor, but it is not super overshadowing like Grass Pelt and Sturdy. I really like this option.
I would like to step in for a moment and support Snake relating to the abilities Overgrow/Blaze and Chlorophyll. These three abilities have excellent flavor relationships with Pyroak that honestly I don't think I should have to explain. The goal of these abilities, in my opinion, is this:
(1.) To not be much more useful than Battle Armor (Not too powerful)
(2.) Not be too underwhelming
(3.) Have good flavor
Many of the suggested abilities fit criteria (1) and (4) because they focus on mono-flavor abilities, and they generally those aren't good enough to be overkill on Pyroak. However, I brought up during some discussion in the CAP room that I honestly would like to see more variety in abilities. Battle Armor is a passive ability; it is constantly in effect and doesn't directly benefit the user. Instead, it prevents something from happening rather than making something happen. It helps the user avoid problems (like Clear Body) rather than directly benefiting the user.
These abilities, while albeit good (especially on certain Pokemon), don't give a Pokemon much variety or common application in battle. This is why I want to see abilities such as Overgrow, Blaze, and Chlorophyll. These are active situational abilities; ones that benefit the user when a certain condition on the battlefield is met. The condition of "Going under 1/3 health" for Overgrow/Blaze is a much more common condition statistically than it is for the opponent to get a critical hit against Pyroak. Despite being more generally applicable, Overgrow/Blaze aren't necessarily better than Battle Armor. However, they can be considered useful still by improving the damage output of Pyroak's otherwise somewhat underwhelming attacks and let Pyroak explore the role of a unique typing tank more.
This makes both the Overgrow/Blaze abilities excellent candidates for Pyroak. The sets would most likely be as Snake posted.
Chlorophyll is a different situation than Overgrow/Blaze. In this case, it's not about giving it a more generally applicable ability, it's about an ability that lets Pyroak inhabit a niche role that it could not access without this ability. In general, it's meant to give Pyroak more variety without being directly much more powerful than Battle Armor without support. Pyroak's niche role of sun sweeper would fit in with the original concept of "Bulky special attacker with unique typing" as stated in a Gen5 Revamp discussion thread linked in the spoiler below. Sure it was pretty informal back then, but I think we should allow Pyroak to have an equally-powerful alternative to Battle Armor that can provide it with a wider spread of opportunities.
Essentially, the abilities Overgrow/Blaze and Chlorophyll both provide new options for Pyroak as a bulky special attacker and letting Pyroak have more chances to play the role of a tank rather than a wall. These abilities fit all three of the key criteria that should be on our minds for this ability, and therefore should be considered as options.
(1.) To not be much more useful than Battle Armor (Not too powerful)
(2.) Not be too underwhelming
(3.) Have good flavor
Many of the suggested abilities fit criteria (1) and (4) because they focus on mono-flavor abilities, and they generally those aren't good enough to be overkill on Pyroak. However, I brought up during some discussion in the CAP room that I honestly would like to see more variety in abilities. Battle Armor is a passive ability; it is constantly in effect and doesn't directly benefit the user. Instead, it prevents something from happening rather than making something happen. It helps the user avoid problems (like Clear Body) rather than directly benefiting the user.
These abilities, while albeit good (especially on certain Pokemon), don't give a Pokemon much variety or common application in battle. This is why I want to see abilities such as Overgrow, Blaze, and Chlorophyll. These are active situational abilities; ones that benefit the user when a certain condition on the battlefield is met. The condition of "Going under 1/3 health" for Overgrow/Blaze is a much more common condition statistically than it is for the opponent to get a critical hit against Pyroak. Despite being more generally applicable, Overgrow/Blaze aren't necessarily better than Battle Armor. However, they can be considered useful still by improving the damage output of Pyroak's otherwise somewhat underwhelming attacks and let Pyroak explore the role of a unique typing tank more.
This makes both the Overgrow/Blaze abilities excellent candidates for Pyroak. The sets would most likely be as Snake posted.
Chlorophyll is a different situation than Overgrow/Blaze. In this case, it's not about giving it a more generally applicable ability, it's about an ability that lets Pyroak inhabit a niche role that it could not access without this ability. In general, it's meant to give Pyroak more variety without being directly much more powerful than Battle Armor without support. Pyroak's niche role of sun sweeper would fit in with the original concept of "Bulky special attacker with unique typing" as stated in a Gen5 Revamp discussion thread linked in the spoiler below. Sure it was pretty informal back then, but I think we should allow Pyroak to have an equally-powerful alternative to Battle Armor that can provide it with a wider spread of opportunities.
Essentially, the abilities Overgrow/Blaze and Chlorophyll both provide new options for Pyroak as a bulky special attacker and letting Pyroak have more chances to play the role of a tank rather than a wall. These abilities fit all three of the key criteria that should be on our minds for this ability, and therefore should be considered as options.
Last edited:
Would Solar Power be a viable option for a non-competitive, or is it's SpA too good to take advantage of that? Can it take too much advantage of a 1.5* Boosts SpA, at the risk of taking 12.5%/turn damage which wastes its bulk potential if it's getting continually chipped. If I was to make a consideration for Overgrow/Blaze, I would suggest more for Blaze, because I'm trying to rationalise that creature on fire suddenly being able to get more powerful grass attacks stretches my credulity.
Alternatively, Steadfast - It still gets hit hard by common Flinch moves like Air Slash, but it has some utility in maybe coming in on a double switch following a KO vs a Fake Out user, but it's not like Toxicroak or Lopunny are top tier. That said, it can Outspeed a Flame Orb Colossoil set at +1, but that's reliant on the rare use of the Fake Out and outspeed M-Crucibelle without a Coil already, which may be something unintentionally too good in retrospect to it being a flavour move.
I would however support White Smoke as mentioned, because leaves give of white smoke.
Plus it fits it being bulky that it can't be debuffed down.
Alternatively, Steadfast - It still gets hit hard by common Flinch moves like Air Slash, but it has some utility in maybe coming in on a double switch following a KO vs a Fake Out user, but it's not like Toxicroak or Lopunny are top tier. That said, it can Outspeed a Flame Orb Colossoil set at +1, but that's reliant on the rare use of the Fake Out and outspeed M-Crucibelle without a Coil already, which may be something unintentionally too good in retrospect to it being a flavour move.
I would however support White Smoke as mentioned, because leaves give of white smoke.
Hi. Here's my thoughts on some of the abilities people have brought up.
Sturdy: I'm against this one because it's competitively viable, more so than Battle Armor since it grants Pyroak a niche similiar to Skarmory in that it can reliably Phaze/Burn setup sweepers it would not be able to otherwise, notably stuff like Mega-Pinsir. I don't believe Pyroak's bulk makes this ability bad in anyway because at the end of the day it acts as a guarantee that lets it potentially cripple Pokemon that would have been able to beat it otherwise, or at the very least get Rocks up on something it wouldn't be able to.
Grassy Pelt: This ability is absolutely crazy lol. I don't think it matters if you have to run Bulu with Roak to get the effect off, especially since Bulu is a very viable mon in the current metagame and checks a good deal of threats itself. They do stack checks and counters a bit but Grassy Terrain really enables Pokemon such as Jirachi/Cyclohm to handle Pokemon that would threaten, such as Landorus-t and Mega Pinsir, by virtue of the debuff to Earthquake and the passive recovery. Basically, the stack won't matter much when it provides such a powerful effect for your team to build itself around. Also just look at the calcs for what Pyroak suddenly 1v1's with Grassy Pelt; at the very least you can't deny how the ability lets Pyroak swing matchups, which sounds pretty competitive to me.
Chlorophyll: Yeah this ability is actually nuts on Pyroak. I'm not even sure how people can suggest this because it Pyroak is pretty much the perfect Chlorophyll sweeper. Paired with say Mega Charizhard Y, Pyroak simply powers through the majority of the tier save a handful of scarfers, namely Crucibelle, Gengar, and Plasmanta. Unlike every other Chlorophyll sweepers, Pyroak actually gets the STAB boost to it's fire moves, which means it hits as hard as Kingdra in the rain, or it would if Pyroak couldn't use it's immense bulk and Synthesis access to just boost up with Growth and hit for even more damage. Pyroak also has an excellent movepool for a Growth set with near perfect coverage in Fire/Grass/Ground on both ends of the attacking spectrum, which lets it pull stunts such as OHKOing Chansey with a +2 Flare Blitz. If you think for a moment Chlorophyll Pyroak won't push Sun Offense to a new high I just don't know what to tell you lol.
Blaze/Overgrow: These abilities are actually pretty cool and I can't see either of them being used on any serious sets; Pyroak just doesn't have the speed to abuse the boost once it's at low health, especially because it'll be likely to take a hit before it can attack. Of the two, Blaze is in my mind the far superior option, mainly because of how well it pairs with Pyroak's Dex entries.
White Smoke: Similarly to the above two, White Smoke is a pretty tame ability and I'd argue that it's at most on par with Brattler Armour in that both abilities help to prevent random hax from well haxing you. White Smoke also has that great flavour interaction with Pyroak's Dex entries, especially the one about it calming people with it's smoke.
Leaf Guard: I don't think this ability is that great mainly because Pryoak learns Heal Bell, but if you run Pyroak on sun you might as well use this. It'll definitely find a niche on sun teams, but outside of that it's a dead ability. I don't believe it's as flavourful as the above two options though.
Rivalry: I'm a fan of this ability for two reasons. First off, it's a completely useless ability, especially on a Pokemon with 60 base attack like Pyroak. Secondly, Pyroak's third Dex entry references males battling in mating rituals, which can be constituted as a sort of Rivalry.
Mega Launcer: I personally don't like this ability because it puts a constraint on us in the future updates to avoid Pulse moves. I don't like putting us in a position where we know an ability we give Pyroak for flavor has a large potential to interfere with future competetive updates. Additionally, the lack of pulse moves in Pyroak's movepool leads me to believe that this ability doesn't fit on Pyroak.
Sturdy: I'm against this one because it's competitively viable, more so than Battle Armor since it grants Pyroak a niche similiar to Skarmory in that it can reliably Phaze/Burn setup sweepers it would not be able to otherwise, notably stuff like Mega-Pinsir. I don't believe Pyroak's bulk makes this ability bad in anyway because at the end of the day it acts as a guarantee that lets it potentially cripple Pokemon that would have been able to beat it otherwise, or at the very least get Rocks up on something it wouldn't be able to.
Grassy Pelt: This ability is absolutely crazy lol. I don't think it matters if you have to run Bulu with Roak to get the effect off, especially since Bulu is a very viable mon in the current metagame and checks a good deal of threats itself. They do stack checks and counters a bit but Grassy Terrain really enables Pokemon such as Jirachi/Cyclohm to handle Pokemon that would threaten, such as Landorus-t and Mega Pinsir, by virtue of the debuff to Earthquake and the passive recovery. Basically, the stack won't matter much when it provides such a powerful effect for your team to build itself around. Also just look at the calcs for what Pyroak suddenly 1v1's with Grassy Pelt; at the very least you can't deny how the ability lets Pyroak swing matchups, which sounds pretty competitive to me.
Chlorophyll: Yeah this ability is actually nuts on Pyroak. I'm not even sure how people can suggest this because it Pyroak is pretty much the perfect Chlorophyll sweeper. Paired with say Mega Charizhard Y, Pyroak simply powers through the majority of the tier save a handful of scarfers, namely Crucibelle, Gengar, and Plasmanta. Unlike every other Chlorophyll sweepers, Pyroak actually gets the STAB boost to it's fire moves, which means it hits as hard as Kingdra in the rain, or it would if Pyroak couldn't use it's immense bulk and Synthesis access to just boost up with Growth and hit for even more damage. Pyroak also has an excellent movepool for a Growth set with near perfect coverage in Fire/Grass/Ground on both ends of the attacking spectrum, which lets it pull stunts such as OHKOing Chansey with a +2 Flare Blitz. If you think for a moment Chlorophyll Pyroak won't push Sun Offense to a new high I just don't know what to tell you lol.
Blaze/Overgrow: These abilities are actually pretty cool and I can't see either of them being used on any serious sets; Pyroak just doesn't have the speed to abuse the boost once it's at low health, especially because it'll be likely to take a hit before it can attack. Of the two, Blaze is in my mind the far superior option, mainly because of how well it pairs with Pyroak's Dex entries.
White Smoke: Similarly to the above two, White Smoke is a pretty tame ability and I'd argue that it's at most on par with Brattler Armour in that both abilities help to prevent random hax from well haxing you. White Smoke also has that great flavour interaction with Pyroak's Dex entries, especially the one about it calming people with it's smoke.
Leaf Guard: I don't think this ability is that great mainly because Pryoak learns Heal Bell, but if you run Pyroak on sun you might as well use this. It'll definitely find a niche on sun teams, but outside of that it's a dead ability. I don't believe it's as flavourful as the above two options though.
Rivalry: I'm a fan of this ability for two reasons. First off, it's a completely useless ability, especially on a Pokemon with 60 base attack like Pyroak. Secondly, Pyroak's third Dex entry references males battling in mating rituals, which can be constituted as a sort of Rivalry.
Mega Launcer: I personally don't like this ability because it puts a constraint on us in the future updates to avoid Pulse moves. I don't like putting us in a position where we know an ability we give Pyroak for flavor has a large potential to interfere with future competetive updates. Additionally, the lack of pulse moves in Pyroak's movepool leads me to believe that this ability doesn't fit on Pyroak.
I was able to briefly talk over the slate with Deck. There were a lot of abilities discussed in this thread, so it was necessary to filter out suggestions that didn't receive as much support from multiple users, or had notable issues from a competitive or flavor standpoint. The poll options for Pyroak's hidden ability will be as follows:
Keen Eye
Leaf Guard
Magma Armor
Rivalry
White Smoke
No Hidden Ability
The poll will be up shortly.
Keen Eye
Leaf Guard
Magma Armor
Rivalry
White Smoke
No Hidden Ability
The poll will be up shortly.
While the Hidden Ability poll is still running, let's get started with the moves discussion.
What new moves from Generations 5-7 should Pyroak receive?
Are there any other moves Pyroak should receive for consistency?
Round and Confide will be required additions when movepool submissions open up due to their universal TM status. Movepool submissions aren't open yet; let's focus on the above questions first so we can narrow down what we'd like to see and poll any controversial additions if necessary.
What new moves from Generations 5-7 should Pyroak receive?
Are there any other moves Pyroak should receive for consistency?
Round and Confide will be required additions when movepool submissions open up due to their universal TM status. Movepool submissions aren't open yet; let's focus on the above questions first so we can narrow down what we'd like to see and poll any controversial additions if necessary.
Flash Cannon, while not a Generation 5-7 move, was unjustly removed during Pyroak's movepool gut back in Gen 5. I'd like to see it back on Pyroak.
Grassy Terrain is a neat utility/flavor move that I'm not sure if Pyroak could actually utilize well. I'm thinking no, but Pyroak is really bulky and we've never really had such a bulky user of the move.
Outrage and Dragon Pulse are tutor moves that Pyroak could get access to, but given that Pyroak has never had powerful Dragon-type moves, I'm a little hesitant to support them (even though it'd never use them, it's just preserving the flavor). I wouldn't mind seeing them though. However, Dragon Tail has my full support because Pyroak knows Roar, Dragon Breath, and Iron Tail.
Nature Power is a TM in Gen 7 that Pyroak should get access to.
Heat Crash is an excellent flavor move for Pyroak, given that it uses Flame Wheel and more notably Flare Blitz very effectively, especially in combination with Swords Dance.
Wild Charge is a recoil move like Flare Blitz, Wood Hammer, and Double-Edge, and we know Pyroak can use Electric-type moves (Zap Cannon), so I feel like this would be a neat addition.
---
I'd like to point out that while Pyroak has Amensia on the CAP subsite, it doesn't have it on Showdown, so this would be a good opportunity to fix that mistake.
EDIT: Flame Charge is on every Fire-type non-forme-changed mon not named Heatmor. It's also pretty consistent with Flame Wheel and Flare Blitz.
Last edited:
So I want to bring up something interesting and controversial: Burn Up.
Burn Up for Pyroak can hit pretty hard once per switchin, but then Pyroak loses the 6 resistances and 3 weaknesses of the Fire typing. On the one hand it takes Earthquake and Stone Edge much better, but gets revenged by Fire and Ice attacks much more easily. It fits well with Pyroak's unique defensive style, but definitely is an additional competitive element to consider.
Burn Up for Pyroak can hit pretty hard once per switchin, but then Pyroak loses the 6 resistances and 3 weaknesses of the Fire typing. On the one hand it takes Earthquake and Stone Edge much better, but gets revenged by Fire and Ice attacks much more easily. It fits well with Pyroak's unique defensive style, but definitely is an additional competitive element to consider.
- Status