Serious Contributing, Smogon, and Newbies (like me)

As of late, I have been feeling kind of down. I have wanted to contribute to Smogon so much. In fact, I have tried nmaking analysises. However, every Pokémon I know really well is either for Badgeholders or is already taken and just sitting in QC collecting dust. As for the two I did snag, the first one I did (DOU Sylveon) got QC rejected twice and the other one (Ubers Smeargle) got torn to shreds by the first person who saw it. I have tried multiple times to write for the Flying Press. My first article got accepted, but I had a bit of trouble with figuring out the sets for a CAP or two (it was a beginners guide to the meta), and I got fucking spat out cause I was too new. Then I submitted an article covering the updates for CAPs going on right now. Got rejected for the same reason. I THEN tried an OU article talking about how unreleased content will affect the meta. Got rejected cause they wanted me to cover how other Pokes would be affected and didn't like how I only posted a Marshadow set (WHICH I DID TO SHOW I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT SO I DONT GET FUCKING SPIT OUT FOR BEING FUCKING GREEN). I even made a tourney application for a Rainbow League 3. Guess what? SPIT OUT AGAIN. This time because "I need to learn more about Smogon." I also applied to host a project from last gen on BSS. Got essentially rejected cause the person I was talking to didn't like the OP cause it wasn't as specific as the one from last gen.

At this point I don't know what to do. I've tried everything I could do in my power to contribute. Every fucking one failed. I want to make a difference, but nobody else seems to want me to.

Please help me. Somebody help me contribute. I want to make a difference but I just FUCKING CAN'T.
 

Lemonade

WOOPAGGING
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Based on your post, it seems like you are spreading yourself too thin. The best contributors typically stay with one tier for a long time; it takes time to understand one metagame well (unless you've been playing for a while). I recommend laddering a bunch and posting in the corresponding forum based on these experiences. As you get better at the game, the quality of contributions will increase and you won't be rejected as much. If you want to contribute specifically to content creation, this still applies, but you could also get into GP.
 
Take some time off, you're too salty right now

I went and took a look at the threads you made, what the people mention are right. If you want to contribute, it's probably better if you familiarize yourself with the meta before you make the analysis. Compare what you worked on to a previous gen's analysis, and look at what you're missing.

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/pokemon/smeargle/uber/

I've linked the previous generation's analysis for you to compare, and you can see the difference in depth of knowledge in the meta. The OP uses the meta as the reasoning for running moves (ie HP Steel for M-Diancie, no Sticky Web due to Latias). Your set looks more like what I'd use for OU and not Ubers, and that's a huge issue.

Don't take what they said to heart, just keep at it.
 

tcr

sage of six tabs
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Lurk more. It seems that most of your issues with contributing have to do with lack of knowledge of a particular metagame. Analyses aren't meant to be busy work so people can increase their badge list, analyses are meant to provide someone without knowledge of a particular pokemon with how you should operate and build them. This is probably why your Smeargle analysis got shot down so quickly.

That you gave specific reasons and excuses as to why some of the work you have contributed has been torn apart shows that you slowly realize the mistakes you make (trying to take on an analysis of a pokemon you have never used before, doing a tier that you don't really have knowledge in, etc etc). Experience cannot be gained immediately, you must work for it.

IMO involve yourself with one specific community that you don't mind being a part of for an extended period of time. Ladder in a single tier, participate in discussions in the subforum, pay attention to how other badgeholders type and argue and make threads. Don't beat yourself up over people rejecting your work, badges don't mean anything. If you truly want to contribute you won't rush through everything
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
First off, I'd like to apologize as I know you sent me a PM and I failed to respond to it. To be clear - I'm usually pretty busy as of late with Smogon and it's not always easy to answer questions like this because it varies from person to person.

Since I have been known to help users in the past (I know for some people reading this - shocking), I'll be very generous today and provide some information.

Let's start with something I agree with Lemonade on - you're trying to do too many tiers at once. This actually is a huge problem when you don't fully grasp a tier to the fullest extent properly. Think back on some things like your OU VR nominations as an example or previous analyses. One example was wanting to write for Sylveon for OU, a Pokemon that isn't ranked in the OU VR as well as a Pokemon that is unviable. Consider that OU's current metagame trends do not favor Sylveon:

- Magearna and Celesteela are very popular teammates that easily punish and shut down Sylveon's sets. Celesteela gets the added bonus of hitting on its weaker defensive side with STAB Heavy Slam.
- Sylveon is rather slow so it has to rely a lot on its bulk to keep going. This is sometimes a problem when Pokemon such as Protean Greninja often run Gunk Shot for opposing fairies or Pokemon such as Tapu Bulu who give fuck all to Sylveon.

There are a lot of other reasons of course, but just small examples.

Since you're a person who at least wants to contribute and tries, I'll give credit where credit is due. Sometimes, though, it takes patience and time in order to properly contribute to the forums. A lot of newer people make common mistakes such as posting unviable sets (a day ago someone posted Sandstorm Aron in OU C&C) or not really understanding exactly what is going on with the metagame. I think p2 says this best:
p2:
no point in all this meta knowledge anyway
all you need to know is one tier
and it can translate to others
imo
A lot of this can be learned by lurking around as well as watching high level replays that are scattered around the site. Watching things such as SPL and WCoP help a lot. Even inside tournaments like OUPL, UPL, etc can give you a general idea on what is probably good and what isn't. Bear in mind that you have to be careful in the interpretation as tournament is very different from ladder - tournament players often prep in advance in what their opponent will likely bring while ladder has to handle general threats that are very common within the tier.

To close everything, my advice is simple:

- Lurk around more. That isn't to say you are barred from ever asking questions - I feel 90% of the time there is no such thing as a stupid question. Though this is a rather odd place to ask such questions, this is a good start. Contacting someone like me is not necessarily a bad idea either, though bear in mind that some of us are often busy with other real life things or other parts of the Smogon site. Lurking is something I highly recommend newbies do because they often will understand things a lot better when they view how the site is structured as well as have a decreased chance of being seen negatively for making mistakes. Simple Questions / Simple Answers threads, Discord, etc are great resources to learn from. Just remember - take things with a grain of salt and consider that not every response given to you will always be correct (i.e. someone posted 252 Def / SpD EVs on Rotom-H when HP is the correct investment for maximum EVs).
- Laddering helps a lot. You don't have to be #1 on the ladder to understand things like current meta trends as well as what exactly is often good or bad in the meta. Some people do have some warped opinions on meta trends sometimes (i.e. low ladder thinks Tapu Lele is broken while many higher level players disagree). Even if you watch higher level replays of various players consistently it can help you out a lot. Learning is done through various ways - it's merely a matter of how you learn best.
- Focus on one tier at a time. While learning multiple tiers can increase diversity, understanding one tier inside and out helps a lot. Worst case scenario you can refer to things such as Sample Team threads or the VR threads to have a general idea on what is good and what is bad. Sets VR, though it is not in every tier, also helps out a lot with learning. Analyses can also be something that help a user improve as well. Don't take analyses as law, but something that can be used as a reference or starting point to understanding things easier.
- Be approachable and consider constructive criticism. I understand that sometimes there are a lot of trolls on the site (at times even I am one), but constructive criticism and feedback can help a person out tremendously if they just listen. Being approachable is also huge - people don't realize how much of a difference being approachable can be to being a more tolerable user in general.

I realize this is very verbose, but in general remember that the site has a lot of resources for a newer person to learn and contribute. Taking advantage of those, though tedious at times, can go a long way. Patience is a virtue that is often underrated in the Smogon New User Metagame.
 
First off, I'd like to apologize as I know you sent me a PM and I failed to respond to it. To be clear - I'm usually pretty busy as of late with Smogon and it's not always easy to answer questions like this because it varies from person to person.

Since I have been known to help users in the past (I know for some people reading this - shocking), I'll be very generous today and provide some information.

Let's start with something I agree with Lemonade on - you're trying to do too many tiers at once. This actually is a huge problem when you don't fully grasp a tier to the fullest extent properly. Think back on some things like your OU VR nominations as an example or previous analyses. One example was wanting to write for Sylveon for OU, a Pokemon that isn't ranked in the OU VR as well as a Pokemon that is unviable. Consider that OU's current metagame trends do not favor Sylveon:

- Magearna and Celesteela are very popular teammates that easily punish and shut down Sylveon's sets. Celesteela gets the added bonus of hitting on its weaker defensive side with STAB Heavy Slam.
- Sylveon is rather slow so it has to rely a lot on its bulk to keep going. This is sometimes a problem when Pokemon such as Protean Greninja often run Gunk Shot for opposing fairies or Pokemon such as Tapu Bulu who give fuck all to Sylveon.

There are a lot of other reasons of course, but just small examples.

Since you're a person who at least wants to contribute and tries, I'll give credit where credit is due. Sometimes, though, it takes patience and time in order to properly contribute to the forums. A lot of newer people make common mistakes such as posting unviable sets (a day ago someone posted Sandstorm Aron in OU C&C) or not really understanding exactly what is going on with the metagame. I think p2 says this best:

A lot of this can be learned by lurking around as well as watching high level replays that are scattered around the site. Watching things such as SPL and WCoP help a lot. Even inside tournaments like OUPL, UPL, etc can give you a general idea on what is probably good and what isn't. Bear in mind that you have to be careful in the interpretation as tournament is very different from ladder - tournament players often prep in advance in what their opponent will likely bring while ladder has to handle general threats that are very common within the tier.

To close everything, my advice is simple:

- Lurk around more. That isn't to say you are barred from ever asking questions - I feel 90% of the time there is no such thing as a stupid question. Though this is a rather odd place to ask such questions, this is a good start. Contacting someone like me is not necessarily a bad idea either, though bear in mind that some of us are often busy with other real life things or other parts of the Smogon site. Lurking is something I highly recommend newbies do because they often will understand things a lot better when they view how the site is structured as well as have a decreased chance of being seen negatively for making mistakes. Simple Questions / Simple Answers threads, Discord, etc are great resources to learn from. Just remember - take things with a grain of salt and consider that not every response given to you will always be correct (i.e. someone posted 252 Def / SpD EVs on Rotom-H when HP is the correct investment for maximum EVs).
- Laddering helps a lot. You don't have to be #1 on the ladder to understand things like current meta trends as well as what exactly is often good or bad in the meta. Some people do have some warped opinions on meta trends sometimes (i.e. low ladder thinks Tapu Lele is broken while many higher level players disagree). Even if you watch higher level replays of various players consistently it can help you out a lot. Learning is done through various ways - it's merely a matter of how you learn best.
- Focus on one tier at a time. While learning multiple tiers can increase diversity, understanding one tier inside and out helps a lot. Worst case scenario you can refer to things such as Sample Team threads or the VR threads to have a general idea on what is good and what is bad. Sets VR, though it is not in every tier, also helps out a lot with learning. Analyses can also be something that help a user improve as well. Don't take analyses as law, but something that can be used as a reference or starting point to understanding things easier.
- Be approachable and consider constructive criticism. I understand that sometimes there are a lot of trolls on the site (at times even I am one), but constructive criticism and feedback can help a person out tremendously if they just listen. Being approachable is also huge - people don't realize how much of a difference being approachable can be to being a more tolerable user in general.

I realize this is very verbose, but in general remember that the site has a lot of resources for a newer person to learn and contribute, and taking advantage of those, though tedious at times, can go a long way. Patience is a virtue that is often underrated in the Smogon New User Metagame.
To be clear, it was Doubles OU. Also, thanks. Honestly, I only ever run HO. OU is probably my best ladder, and I am sitting around 1300-1500 iirc. And before you say it, I already checked B101 and it's closed. I honestly am just kind of stuck. I have some personal things that make me get stuck and obsessed with things like this, but this is not the place to discuss that.
 
Can vouch that pretty much all of what Colonel M said is correct and good advice (not that i followed any of it when i first joined, but meh). Really, it is best if you want to contribute to stay and stick with one specific tier, and learn as much as you can about it and grow to be relatively good in it. Obviously, not all the knowledge you accumulate will be transferrable between tiers, but a good chunk of it will. This will help you with understanding how this other metagame works because you have a knowledge base already there from said other tier, and asa result, you will be more likely to notice and figure out things in said tier that will work and function well. This will then allow you to eventually write those analysis' and articles that you want to do, and they will likely be of higher quality because of this knowledge

Hell, as a personal example of this, I've been out of playing competitive Pokemon for 3 years until like, not even a month ago. As it turns out, I still had prior knowledge of how metagames worked and how to exploit common threats with sets and Pokemon that took advantage of them, and could adapt and fit them into this basically entirely unknown new generation of Pokemon. This kind of knowledge is something you need to build, and you can't really force it, but you can learn it, and it is transferable between tiers, and even can stay for a longtime
 

Colonel M

I COULD BE BORED!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
To be clear, it was Doubles OU. Also, thanks. Honestly, I only ever run HO. OU is probably my best ladder, and I am sitting around 1300-1500 iirc. And before you say it, I already checked B101 and it's closed. I honestly am just kind of stuck. I have some personal things that make me get stuck and obsessed with things like this, but this is not the place to discuss that.
B101 is definitely a good place to start too. I would wait and see when the next sign-ups appear, and maybe hop on board to get a good start on everything. Worst case scenario I would ask politely one of the B101 staff when the next OU one starts and see if they'll work with you from there. VM wall post should suffice.
 
B101 is definitely a good place to start too. I would wait and see when the next sign-ups appear, and maybe hop on board to get a good start on everything. Worst case scenario I would ask politely one of the B101 staff when the next OU one starts and see if they'll work with you from there. VM wall post should suffice.
Just posted on Plus' wall. Thanks!
 

OLD GREGG (im back baby)

old gregg for life
Your passion is admirable but you clearly are lacking a bit in patience. All good things come in time and nothing worth having comes easy. Focus on the journey and not the destination; all will be well. Good luck and keep your head up but most importantly don't give up! Remember winners aren't people who never lose because every one loses at some point. Winners are people who never quit!

Despite how cringe-worthy and cliche ridden is this post of mine, it is the truth.
 
This may not be of much help, but I'd like to just say that a lot of the analyses you tried reserving that you said were collecting dust in QC, weren't inactive because of the writers. They were inactive because there was a lack of QC checks. It's always important to make sure a Pokemon you're reserving actually hasn't been updated by the writer or has some other sort of criteria that justifies reservation.
 

Oglemi

Borf
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You need to find your niche and get good at it. For me, I joined the site because at the time there was a ton of spelling and grammar mistakes on the Dex and I would flood the small changes thread with posts with fixes for R_D or whoever to fix for me. I then gradually determined another project I could work on to help Smogon, and that ended up being to give lesser used Pokemon in UU an actual good analysis (initially sparked by seeing Solrock's dismal analysis and wanting to make it better). So I hopped on the ladder with teams built around Solrock so I could present an analysis in C&C that showcased how to actually use it in the meta rather than just a crappy theorymon analysis reminiscent of the old Gen 1-3 analyses. From there I set bigger and bigger goals for what I wanted to see done on the site and how to do it, and the badges and recognition just sorta followed. I honestly didn't even know badges were even a thing until I got one, I was just happy I was able to contribute something.

And it's great you want to contribute, but you need to find what it is you have actual talent in (for me it was everything in C&C from editing to writing, for others it's battling and a knack for battle commentary, and for others it's simply being a generally good chat presence) and pursue an area on Smogon that matches that. A vague desire to contribute isn't what we're looking for, in fact it's the opposite, especially when you jump into discussions or try to present your knowledge through contributions of something that you don't actually quite understand fully.
 

Plus

中国风暴 trademark
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I already responded to your VM, but I realized you made a thread here so I'll add a couple other things as well. We don't have that many active tutors so it will take some time until a thread reopens, but you can idle on our discord if you want to receive notifications as to when a thread opens.

As for your frustrations with contributing, I think everyone here has attested to the fact that respect is gained through knowledge, skill, and experience. Jumping straight into competitive contributions without a solid foundation isn't going to cut it. Contributing on Smogon isn't about being a suck up or having badges, but about being good at what you do.

For a newbie, I would focus less on contributing right off the bat. Take some time to evaluate the reasons why you want to contribute, and get to know some of the Smogon members behind the scenes. The connections you make on Smogon are more important than the pixels underneath the username. Making friends with people who share an interest in something as obscure as competitive Pokemon is much more fulfilling than being the second coming of analysis jesus. Just relax and enjoy your time here.
 
Everyone has to start somewhere, and even the most well-respected and well-known users also started off small. Contributing, particularly in C&C can be pretty rough to jump right into, especially with all the people that are much more experienced and knowledgeable around you. But you can use this to your advantage and seek them out for help and or to answer any questions you might have. I would definitely try to find your niche since it seems like you've tried to do everything at once, which usually isn't a good idea.

I've also noticed that you've started an RU analysis, so why don't you try to work on that for now and see how it goes? There's tons of helpful resources to use when writing analyses, whether it be existing analysis threads, metagame info threads, or even jumping onto discord and asking a few questions. There's always people around that are happy and willing to help you out. You just kinda have to take a step back sometimes and slow down, it'll only help you in the long run.
 

TMan87

We shall bow to neither master nor god
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Hey Rev, fancy seeing you out of Fusion Evolution.
I'll add my two cents to what everyone already said, and I will point out that while you may not have yet the knowledge to write analyses, it's not like you can't do anything in the meantime.
I'll take my own cas as an example (not an ego stroke, don't worry guys) : I am a mediocre OU player at best, I don't really know other formats, and my main tier on PS! is probably CC1v1. With such a level, I couldn't even dream of writing analyses, yet I found a way to contribute to Smogon. Two, actually.

My most important contribution to this day is being the French Translation Team co-leader. This is an important point as it proves that you sometimes have to think outside the box to find an way to contribute that matches your abilities as a person, in this case taking part in an somewhat original project. Maybe you can try to analyze what you like in Pokémon and begin to build a project draft with that in mind, then, when it's really solid, try to submit it to the higher-ups. Finding other ways to approach Pokémon as a whole can lead to interesting parts of the site imo.

But let's say you really want to write something, because you like writing or something. I know I do. But, as I said, I have limited knowledge of high-tier OU play (or UU, or RU, or anything for that matter). What did I do then ? I went and wrote a silly article about a so-called "format" I helped invent (and had a lot of fun with), which I enjoyed writing. Sure, that's not something that will have much spotlight, but that doesn't matter. I still wrote an article for Smogon about something I liked. Another example is Cretacerus' and FellFromtheSky's recent article about Pokémon Biology : it's in no ways competitive, but I enjoyed it far more than the bunch of analyses I had read until then. Point is : you don't need to restrict yourself to analyses while you gather knowledge. You can still try to write some "fun" stuff, and when you're a veteran, you switch to analyses. At least that's how I see it.
On this subject, I was maybe thinking of writing something about FE's origins, in a storytelling kind of way (a bit like the setup in the thread's OP, I don't know if you get what I mean), maybe we could write that together if you're interested ?

I hope I got my points across. In any case, you've been very active since you joined, so don't lose hope, keep being a positive influence on the forums (assuming you already are one), don't rush things and always try to think outside the box.
 

Max. Optimizer

free to be the greatest
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Greetings Reviloja753,

First of all I'd like to welcome the opportunity to applaud your remarkable motivation and drive.
With these two core competencies you're already off to a good start on your road to become a contributor.
In my opinion you should now place the emphasis on other core competencies like patience, perseverance and consistency.

I recommend that you take your time and evaluate the experience and feedback that you've gathered so far and that you decide from there where you want to go next.
Smogon is a manifold community that offers a wide range of activities for an equally wide range of users.

If things didn't work out for you so far, this means that you might want to take a break and see if maybe another activity suits your individual strengths and weaknesses better.
Sometimes we need to take a step backwards in life in order to gain new momentum, allowing us to take two steps forwards.

"Even if you fall flat on your face, you're still moving forward." Victor Kiam

There is absolutely no shame in admitting temporary defeat. The most important thing is to learn from advice and constructive criticism and to keep moving.
Speaking of which, you don't seem like the kind of person that would give up for good that easily.
You undeniably have a wide range of beneficial character traits and you'll learn how to efficiently use them to your advantage over time.
It's a never ending learning process that'll constantly provide you with opportunities to reinvent yourself.

"Patience is not the ability to wait, but the ability to keep a good attitude while waiting." Joyce Meyer

I can tell from my very own experience that there are always members ready to help you, so don't be afraid to ask if you have any questions or concerns!
 

earl

(EVIOLITE COMPATIBLE)
is a Community Contributor
Sup.
May I just begin this post by saying that you are, by far, the user I see most often while browsing new posts? It's super impressive. I mean I've been active for a few months longer than you and I only have a 5th of your post count.
But as I'm a newer user (ignore join date, I've started being active in December) like you, I guess I could give a few tips to at least be tolerated in a specific area of smogon.
Firstly, definitely find your niche as others in this thread have said. Do me, that's only a little bit of contribution in OU but I plan on going wild once PU eventually launches.
Second, think before post. In situations such as your ill fated smearagle analysis, learn from it and really think about whether you're knowledgeable enough for what you're about to take on. The only analysis I've done is Alolan Muk, but I know a ton about that Pokémon while I don't reserve any more as I do not feel I'm ready. I don't want a badge in these situations, because I don't think the badge should be your motivation (which doesn't seem to be your case) Do what you want, not what you can.


Just two cents from a small time user who is mostly tolerated.
 

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