Doubles General Resources Thread + Beginners' Guide (new players that are lost, look here)

xzern

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approved by arcticblast and i think stratos


Welcome to the Doubles OU general resources topic! In this thread, I've compiled all the important resources that the Doubles OU subforum has to offer in a single post. If you think that I'm missing something important, or if something needs updating, just let me know itt and I'll update/add it.
Links that are extra important to new users in particular are italicized.
Metagame Resources:
Community:
Other:

Beginner's Guide to Doubles:
Getting associated with the Doubles community can seem tricky and a bit intimidating at first, due to how rigid a lot of the community members can appear at times. However, don't let this discourage you! Everyone starts somewhere, and most of the doubles community recognizes this and will do their best to help you out with most of what you need.

On Showdown:
A great way to get associated with the community directly is by chatting in the Smogon Doubles room on PS. Here, you can easily identify experienced users (generally, those with +/%/@/# symbols) and therefore who will be giving you the best advice. However, unlike these ranked people, the Doubles OU ladder on PS is, most of the time, of a very shaky quality. A lot of the players that you'll see on the ladder will be using really bad gimmick teams. That being said, winning games on the ladder is not a very big achievement worth bragging about (unless your elo is very high), nor is it a foolproof method of testing new teams. Although, laddering with a new team is a good way to get a feel for your new team, since it's easier to notice certain flaws in your teams once you put it into practice. Also, once you acquire a decent ladder ranking, you'll see less of the unviable gimmicks and more players that are worth battling. In the Doubles room, room tournaments are a common occurrence; these tournaments typically have a somewhat higher quality than ladder matches because a lot of the room's experienced members participate in this tournaments. A great way to get yourself noticed as a good player is by consistently winning official room tours against good players or, more notably, forum tournaments. You can also use sample teams that have been built by the more experienced users to get a more firm grasp on the tier; they're especially catered to new users like yourself.

In the Doubles Subforum:
The subforum is a much different dynamic than the doubles room. Those who frequent the Doubles subforum are typically more rigid to newer users than they would be in the PS room. That being said, its a cardinal rule to lurk in the forum before posting to ensure that you don't end up with a bad reputation. A great way to make yourself known as a good poster is to make good posts in threads like the viability rankings, good cores thread, creative sets thread, etc. You can identify good posts by observing what kind of feedback that post received, how many likes it has, or if they just conveyed their point in an intelligent way. Avoid making bad, cringe-worthy shitposts like this, as jokes like these will normally not be funny unless you're a relatively well-known user. You can also see how teambuilding is usually done by the forum regulars by checking out the teambuilding competition, where posters build around a certain core or pokemon to then have it voted on by the community. Outside the Doubles Subforum, however, the best way to make your name recognized is by performing well in major Doubles tournaments like the Doubles Open or the Doubles Seasonals.


Doubles OU Council Members:
Doubles Forum Moderators:
 
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xzern

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hi i recently wrote and added a "beginner's guide" into the op. i made it with a bit of input from the doubles room, too. you can comment here or vm me with your thoughts on the guide or just some general input as to what you think would be a good idea to remove/add/change.
 

Checkmater

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maybe a separate section for ladder explanation? I feel like it's also a little harsh and demeaning, in a sense. I know we don't want people coming in and saying "guys I went 4-0 on ladder with x team it's good someone chal" but there's a nice way to phrase it imo
 
I would mention that reading the team building competition's descriptions is a good way to learn how experienced teambuilders make their teams. Part of the rules is to explain how your team was made and why you made the choices you did, and that information is extremely valuable to any new player. Otherwise I think that your guide is pretty good. Get art and a GP check and it could be an article published on-site.

qsns is a terrorist
Good advice.
 

Checkmater

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not to rehash what I said before but that beginner's guide section needs to be made much less harsh. I really don't feel comfortable linking this thread to new players in fear of discouraging them from competitive play as it seems very easy to be intimidated. There are loads of players on the ladder who have 200+ games but just don't want to get into/are afraid of more competitive play/teambuilding, and that section doesn't help
 

xzern

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not to rehash what I said before but that beginner's guide section needs to be made much less harsh. I really don't feel comfortable linking this thread to new players in fear of discouraging them from competitive play as it seems very easy to be intimidated. There are loads of players on the ladder who have 200+ games but just don't want to get into/are afraid of more competitive play/teambuilding, and that section doesn't help
i don't see how the first part can be construed as so harsh. note that i edited the part about the ladder between showing the room and posting it here. i can see how the second part might be interpreted as a bit intimidating, but it's really just the truth. the room is generally a more new-user-friendly environment whereas the forum needs a bit of lurking before you can make posts that make you look like you know what you're talking about. bad joke posts like the one that i linked will be met with harsh criticism, so i'm really just discouraging new users from damaging their reputation that way. if you have any specific suggestions, however, feel free to post them and i might add it to the guide
 
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Checkmater

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I mean this part:

However, unlike these ranked people, the Doubles OU ladder on PS is, most of the time, of a very shaky quality. Most of the players on the ladder will be using really bad gimmick teams. That being said, winning games on the ladder is not a very big achievement worth bragging about (unless your elo is very high), nor is it a very good way to test new teams.

Which seems combative and likely to make new players immediately defensive. A better way of phrasing it might be phrasing it similarly to 51's article in the Smog, where he explains why, while gimmicks sound good to the inexperienced player, they are really bad. Maybe it could link it in or just change the wording to have that same kind of explanatory feel rather than combative feel.

For example, you could mention how they are easily disrupted/not powerful post-setup or something like that. Just outright stating that they're bad leaves new players with nothing learned and doesn't convince those same players very well.
 

Stratos

Banned deucer.
Hes not trying to convince people that their teams are bad he's trying to say "winning ladder games doesn't mean your team is good." The difference is pretty apparent if you know how to read.
 

Checkmater

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"Most of the players on the ladder will be using really bad gimmick teams. "
I don't want to link this statement to players who ask me for help when they get demolished with their gimmick team. It's not going to help them improve at all.
 

shaian

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Honestly, I think you should phrase it in a way that doesn't discourage people from actually laddering, which is detrimental to the metagame as a whole. It's been repeated so often by pretty much everyone that we need people to ladder more, a good active ladder is a sign of a healthy metagame, don't stifle its activity. Having something in the general resources thread which straight up discourages people from doing so does not exactly help the cause. Not to mention the ladder is a pretty good way to get a feel for a team which is pretty important, and spares everyone from having someone they don't know randomly challenge them.
 
I couldn't find an SQSA thread in this subforum, so I'm assuming this would be the best place to put this.

In Stratos' teambuilding dump thread, one of the things he lists in his teambuilding checklist is "At most one kyurem-b sub bait". I'm assuming this is referring to having a Pokemon that allows Kyub to set up a Substitute, or provokes it into doing so.

I can see that if you're running Hyper Voice or something similar, since it wastes Kyub's turn and gives chip damage, but I can't see why you would want to bait Kyub into setting up a Sub in any other scenario. Could someone explain?
 

Idyll

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I couldn't find an SQSA thread in this subforum, so I'm assuming this would be the best place to put this.

In Stratos' teambuilding dump thread, one of the things he lists in his teambuilding checklist is "At most one kyurem-b sub bait". I'm assuming this is referring to having a Pokemon that allows Kyub to set up a Substitute, or provokes it into doing so.

I can see that if you're running Hyper Voice or something similar, since it wastes Kyub's turn and gives chip damage, but I can't see why you would want to bait Kyub into setting up a Sub in any other scenario. Could someone explain?
He means that, at most, you should have only one mon that gives Kyu-B a free turn to sub against you. The less, the better.
 

xzern

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Could you add a Doubles OU team building compendium, as well as a list of Pokemon that are allowed in Doubles OU, including the legendaries?
i would love to add a teambuilding compendium, but unfortunately the one that we have right now is rather outdated (it lists hitmontop as a viable option for multiple things, but hitmontop isnt good.) if you want a list of pokemon that you can use in doubles, there's a list of pokemon that you cant use, titled "Banlist" in the first section. we also have a doubles tier list which lists pokemon by usage.
 

Checkmater

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So I keep forgetting to ask you everytime you're online but xzern could you update it so that it links properly to the new frameworks thread?

Thanks!
 

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