Metagame Full Potential

sin(pi)

lucky n bad

Honestly there are bigger fish to fry (spiders to squash?) than Araquanid. While laddering (for reqs and before), I came across only 2 or 3, and they were simply dead weight against my team, either getting 1 KO or just dying. Do Not Ban Araquanid.

I wanted to post my team and talk a little bit about said bigger fish. Shoutouts to aki0s for inspiring the team, though the sets are my own.

team: http://pastebin.com/qNV0H4Bj

So speed boosting abilities are absolutely broken and this team combines some of the best synergies to essentially go nuts.
I started off with the core of Pelipper and Floatzel; Pelipper is better than toed because it has U-Turn. It also has Defog/Roost, but the meta is offensive enough that Roost is rarely used (stuff hits too hard most of the time) and I don't care a whole lot about SR; Defog was primarily because I saw someone discussing webs and I didn't want to autolose to that.
Floatzel is the best Swimmer barring cteaming (ie Kingdra/Ludi). Pump is the strongest STAB but the meta is so specially oriented I found Waterfall to be a better move 95% of the time (also it doesn't miss at inopportune moments). Seriously Waterfall completely blanks so much stuff it's insane, Chansey and Goodra are both clean OHKO'd. I was running Ice Beam initially over Rock Tomb but I literally never wanted to click it, Waterfall hits most things harder. You can replace Pump with Surf if you want, it doesn't make a huge difference. Aqua Jet is priority which is handy for random things like Water Shuriken Accelgor and stuff. Rock Tomb is basically filler but it's between that/IB/HP Elec and Tomb hits standard Mantine/Volcanion much harder, and Jellicent fucking sucks so who cares about that. Switcheroo is another choice but stall is literally unusable so it's not rly worth imo.

+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 378-445 (58.8 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Surf vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 310-366 (48.2 - 57%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Rain: 783-922 (121.9 - 143.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra in Rain: 147-173 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 214-252 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Waterfall vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Goodra in Rain: 391-461 (102 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Surf vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowbro-Mega in Rain: 396-466 (100.7 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowbro-Mega in Rain: 484-570 (123.1 - 145%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 338-398 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Volcanion: 204-240 (56 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Choice Specs Floatzel Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 452-532 (120.8 - 142.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO (even without the AV tomb hits harder)
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Floatzel Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mantine: 526-620 (140.6 - 165.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Next I added the Electric Terrain core of Koko and Alolachu. Movesets are fairly self-explanatory; Surf and Espeed are incompatible. I've occasionally missed having Tbolt instead of Electro Ball so that's a change you can make, I didn't want Scarf chu because Scarfed Electrics make me sad. Psychic is filler and is probably better as Psyshock; as is GK. Focus Blast bops TTar but EBall does like 80 anyway. Brave Bird on Koko is really cool and has helped me out a ton, smacking stuff like Venu which think they can switch in. Thunderbolt > Thunder is an option as is Dazzling > GK, but I didn't feel the need myself.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 298-352 (73.9 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 426-504 (105.7 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regice in Electric Terrain: 269-317 (73.9 - 87%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 433-511 (67.4 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I found myself wanted hazards so I decided to add the fastest suicide lead, ie Sash Aero. Aero actually hits really hard in this meta which is a bonus. Fire Blast instead of EQ because I wanted to bop Ferro and things, it's ended up working really well, surprisingly enough.
Lastly I added AV Volc to check other rain teams (speed ties aren't fun) and spider, and also to lure in fatmons and boom on them. EQ does like 30 to Chansey which means it dies after 2 Stone Edges. The EVs outspeed 4 Speed Goodra so you can bop it. Overall the team's been really solid, losses were more to my misplays/mispredicts/misses than anything else.

edit: forgot to mention, the problem is Swift Swim and clones, ban them

---------------------

I'm also wondering why people don't use Head Smash on (AV) Nihilego. It's literally twice as strong as Power Gem, and in a specially inclined metagame, it'll often do 3x more or even greater than that. It also allows you to break on both sides. Obviously recoil sucks but not that much tbhimo.

A couple of example calcs:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Nihilego Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 111-132 (17.2 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Nihilego Head Smash vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 538-634 (83.8 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Nihilego Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 130-154 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 7.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Nihilego Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Cresselia: 345-406 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Nihilego Power Gem vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 78-93 (20.3 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Nihilego Head Smash vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Goodra: 538-634 (140.4 - 165.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Why is no one talking about the best bird?

Crobat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Nature: Timid
Evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Sludge Bomb
- Heat Wave
- U-turn/Giga Drain


Pros:
Powerful Sludge bomb and Heat wave to poke holes in teams with many phy defensive mons.
Brave bird to hit hard or clean late game (and has added hp for many nukes)
U-turn can give momentum or deal chip damage. Giga drain is there for the rock types which resist everything else.
Outspeeds/ties with many of the other scarfers in the tier, and its coverage hits just about every wall.

Cons:
You aren't using it.
 
smh Skarmory and its beautiful Flash Cannons and Dark Pulses is the best bird

First of all, an update. I tried that Comfey set... it's actually really solid. If it sets up once or twice, chances are that its doing heavy damage to a team unless it is OHKOed, which is difficult.

Secondly... I can't believe no one mentioned this monster.

always the meta (Metagross) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Bullet Punch
- Thunder Punch / Grass Knot / Earthquake / Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt / Psychic

I think this set nearly speaks for itself. Mega Metagross is an AMAZING win condition, and I'll say that it's pretty much the best defense booster out there. Bullet Punch is a must have for the many, MANY frail sweepers out there, and is just amazing. Coverage and Psychic moves are based on preference. Grass Knot just takes out the many Ground and Water Types, Thunder Punch OHKOes Araqunid without boosts, Earthquake takes out Steels, and Meteor Mash is for when power is an issue.(there's more options, Metagross is versatile...) Zen Headbutt is contact and powerful, while Psychic is useful for some physical walls...

replays coming later, but I have a bunch.
 
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SaturnZelda

formerly TylerWithNumbers
So, I have a set that I've been messing around with, and it's turned out to be really effective.

Aerodactyl @ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Rock Slide
- Fire Blast

This is a really fun lead set I've been working with over the past couple days. In my opinion, Stealth Rock is the absolute best move in Full Potential, because everyone is running Hyper Offense, so my first moveslot is self-explanatory. My second slot is Taunt, which allows it to stop other leads (Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Regirock, etc.) from setting their own rocks and thus keeping your valuable sashes and HP from being broken. Rock Slide is just there as a STAB to hit things, but Fire Blast is a way to take care of leads such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and Steelix. This set is meant to be a suicide lead that dies very early, but provides reliable hazards, which can honestly change the tide of the battle in this meta.
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
Why is no one talking about the best bird?

Crobat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Nature: Timid
Evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Sludge Bomb
- Heat Wave
- U-turn/Giga Drain


Pros:
Powerful Sludge bomb and Heat wave to poke holes in teams with many phy defensive mons.
Brave bird to hit hard or clean late game (and has added hp for many nukes)
U-turn can give momentum or deal chip damage. Giga drain is there for the rock types which resist everything else.
Outspeeds/ties with many of the other scarfers in the tier, and its coverage hits just about every wall.

Cons:
You aren't using it.
BC there is Ninjask with better speed and similar movepool Crobat is overshadowed.
 

dhelmise

everything is embarrassing
is a Site Content Manageris a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Top Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
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Why is no one talking about the best bird?

Crobat @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Infiltrator
Nature: Timid
Evs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
- Brave Bird
- Sludge Bomb
- Heat Wave
- U-turn/Giga Drain


Pros:
Powerful Sludge bomb and Heat wave to poke holes in teams with many phy defensive mons.
Brave bird to hit hard or clean late game (and has added hp for many nukes)
U-turn can give momentum or deal chip damage. Giga drain is there for the rock types which resist everything else.
Outspeeds/ties with many of the other scarfers in the tier, and its coverage hits just about every wall.

Cons:
You aren't using it.
It isn't used much because it's commonly overshadowed by other Flying-types, as well as due to the presence of Choice Scarf Tapu Koko, Alolan Raichu, and other weather and conditional Speed sweepers.

Speaking of Speed sweepers, nv and I will be posting something about Unburden within a week. Thank you all for your patience.
 

drampa's grandpa

cannonball
is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
So I have come up with what I think is the best counter to Alolan Raichu and electric spam in general. I'm kind of proud of this set because for once in this meta I didn't find it by going into teambuilder and looking at which pokemon had the highest of each stat

*drumroll*


Bululk (Tapu Bulu) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Rock Slide


Wait... what? Tapu Bulu doesn't have great Special Defense, why are you giving it an Assault Vest The Ruins of Alpha? Well here's your answer

252+ Spe Choice Scarf Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tapu Bulu: 72-84 (20.9 - 24.4%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery

Tapu Bulu eliminates electric terrain, making Alolachu a LOT less threatening. And in return....

252+ Spd Assault Vest Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Raichu-Alola in Grassy Terrain: 420-495 (160.9 - 189.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Alolan Raichu's other moves can be a bit more of a problem.
252+ Spe Choice Scarf Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 96-113 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Spe Choice Scarf Raichu-Alola Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 108-127 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
252+ Spe Choice Scarf Raichu-Alola Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 169-201 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery (worst case scenario, if they have Psyshock you can't switch in unless you invest heavily in defense)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Raichu-Alola Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Tapu Bulu: 153-181 (44.6 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery


The tl;dr of the above is that a spread of 248 HP / 116 Def / 140+ SpD lets you live Alolachu's Psyshock reliably after grassy terrain recovery and actually counter it, but you don't hit as hard. Actually now that I'm thinking about it that's the spread I will recommend. Note that it brings Psychic down to a ~60% chance to 3hko.

bubulk (Tapu Bulu) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Horn Leech
- Superpower / Focus Blast / Brick Break
- Rock Slide / Megahorn / Stone Edge


As for the matchup against Tapu Koko, you require some prediction skills as
252+ Spe Choice Scarf Tapu Koko Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 116 Def Tapu Bulu: 316-372 (92.1 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

However the most effective way to play this set that I have found is to abuse the fact that most of the common electric spam threats are locked in to their moves by Choice Scarf.

The moves on this set are hardly scientifically set out, I simply chose 4 moves, 2 stab and 2 coverage that had good synergy. Fighting hits Steel types, Rock hits flyers, Bug can hit opposing Grass types like Celebi (does anyone run Celebi lol) if you're into that. The one thing I will insist on is Horn Leech being used rather than Wood Hammer because it significantly adds to the longevity of the set, and this set is primarily a check to a threatening playstyle rather than a wallbreaker in its own right. You want to be able to deal with multiple mons if possible, not be weakened by their Raichu then taken out by Electrode, or simply be whittled down over time because you kept on hitting their switch-in with Wood Hammer rather than Horn Leech.

Try it out!
 
Regice @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Superpower
- Earthquake

This is a in general, good attacker. I can't say much else.

Altaria (M) @ Yache Berry
Ability: Cloud Nine
Shiny: Yes
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Fly
- Haze

This is for weather teams. Good attacking moves, and no one ever expects Fly.
Haze is for stuff like Ferrothorn, Tapu Koko, and Ninjask

Greninja (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Rock Slide

I wanted to run Greninja, and he's pretty fun.
Mostly everything's coverage but no water coverage :'(

Cloyster (M) @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Impish Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Poison Jab
- Rock Blast
- Rapid Spin

Needed a spinner, so I thought Cloyster. It was between him, Regirock, and Slowbro-Mega.
I wanted the flinch hax, so I went Cloyster.

Marowak-Alola (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rock Head
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Bone

A bit more coverage here, but he hits hard, especially with that defense.
I might replace LO with AV, but I don't know...

Rotom-Wash @ Assault Vest
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Signal Beam

I found him, especially with only one weakness, and ran a couple physical moves for coverage. again.


I believe this team is pretty good, but I think it can improved.
But I do not know how. I need everyone's criticism, except if you are gonna say my team's trash.
Here's a replay I have: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7fullpotential-542102928
 
Soooooooo......I'm new to teambuilding and here, so just bear with me. OK?
This is a potential MONSTER in this meta.
Meet.....Special Kyurem-B

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
Ok, let me give you a quick rundown.

His base 170 attack is AMAZING! Add that with his special movepool, and you've made a devil spawn. Smack on a Life Orb and he kills EVERYTHING.

Exhibit A. Earth Power. Now I know that Golem-A might be viable, Earth Power ruins its day.
Tapu Koko with a scarf might be terrifying, but a potential 439 special attack plus life orb and Super Effective hit 1 shots it.

252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 307-361 (109.2 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

This is without the absurd attack.....Take that.

Exhibit B. Flash Cannon. This is an extremely useful move against annoying fairies, like Comfey and Tapu Lele. Great coverage in any way.

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 247-291 (87.9 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

(Had to make Flash Cannon physical for the sp attack stat but changed its sp defence to defence so it's not a mis-calc)

Exhibit C. Ice Beam. Need I say anything? Great STAB move.

Exhibit D. Draco Meteor. Plz ban this move. Too OP to be able to spam Dracos without lowering damage. It kills some of the best special walls.

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyukumuku: 269-317 (107.1 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Araquanid: 265-313 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

I have 3 words

Nerf. Kyurem. B.
 

Arkeis

(づ。◕‿‿◕。)づ
is a Top Artist Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnus
Soooooooo......I'm new to teambuilding and here, so just bear with me. OK?
This is a potential MONSTER in this meta.
Meet.....Special Kyurem-B

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
Ok, let me give you a quick rundown.

His base 170 attack is AMAZING! Add that with his special movepool, and you've made a devil spawn. Smack on a Life Orb and he kills EVERYTHING.

Exhibit A. Earth Power. Now I know that Golem-A might be viable, Earth Power ruins its day.
Tapu Koko with a scarf might be terrifying, but a potential 439 special attack plus life orb and Super Effective hit 1 shots it.

252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 307-361 (109.2 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

This is without the absurd attack.....Take that.

Exhibit B. Flash Cannon. This is an extremely useful move against annoying fairies, like Comfey and Tapu Lele. Great coverage in any way.

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 247-291 (87.9 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

(Had to make Flash Cannon physical for the sp attack stat but changed its sp defence to defence so it's not a mis-calc)

Exhibit C. Ice Beam. Need I say anything? Great STAB move.

Exhibit D. Draco Meteor. Plz ban this move. Too OP to be able to spam Dracos without lowering damage. It kills some of the best special walls.

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyukumuku: 269-317 (107.1 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Araquanid: 265-313 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

I have 3 words

Nerf. Kyurem. B.
The problem with special Kyurem-B or any pure special attacker is that there are so many bulky Assault Vest users in this meta. Even supereffective attacks would have a hard time breaking time.
For instance, Araquanid pretty much always uses 252 HP / 252 SDef with AV so your Draco Meteor calc would like more like the following:

252 SpA Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Araquanid: 134-160 (39.4 - 47%)

Meanwhile Kyu-B takes major damage from Liquidation, despite being resisted:

+1 252+ Atk Water Bubble Araquanid Liquidation vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-Black: 230-272 (58.8 - 69.5%)

Having a mix of strong physical and special attacks is the way to go for any offensive mon
 
Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon
- Ice Beam
- Draco Meteor
Ok, let me give you a quick rundown.

His base 170 attack is AMAZING! Add that with his special movepool, and you've made a devil spawn. Smack on a Life Orb and he kills EVERYTHING.

Exhibit A. Earth Power. Now I know that Golem-A might be viable, Earth Power ruins its day.
Tapu Koko with a scarf might be terrifying, but a potential 439 special attack plus life orb and Super Effective hit 1 shots it.
Earth Power? Why not Bolt Strike? It becomes BoltBeam
 

RNGIsFatal

Banned deucer.
Earth Power? Why not Bolt Strike? It becomes BoltBeam
I'd say bolt strike over flash cannon, but yeah it's a lot more useful
Electric Type move on Ice types is too good as a coverage, especially for Mantine, Araquanid, etc.

Also don't you mean Fusion Bolt instead of Bolt Strike? Bolt Strike is Zekrom-exclusive move (exception of Victini and Smeargle)

General comment:

I see a lot of you talking about which 'mon is op. I think this problem comes from AV spam, weather, terrain and stuff. I find AV 'slappable' on any 'mon with appropriate base stats so what do you all think on discussing about AV or possibly Item Clause (there was a voting about that on PS! yesterday in Other Metas chatroom) after suspect test? I think item clause circulates the issue around in more detail.
 
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I think we should look at weathers and terrain first, as some of the ways to deal with them is by using stuff like AV Tyranitar, AV Sylveon (powerful priority), AV Umbreon (can trap Raichu-Alola/Floatzel outside of rain using pursuit), AV Hitmontop (powerful priority) and AV Tapu-Bulu (as shown by The Ruins of Alpha). I don't think AV is that problematic, but maybe after more stuff is banned it will be a lot more powerful (it is already very strong, tho).
 
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One thing that I find it unexplored is the existence of Weak Armor. It's pretty situational but since everyone runs Physical moves because AV is so prevalent, I find this good I think.

Kabutops @ Focus Sash / Salac Berry
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Rock Polish
- Hydro Pump / Aqua Jet
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall

If you managed to get a Physical hit and set up Rock Polish in the same turn, you'll get +4 in a turn. And the advantage of this is that it isn't dependent on weather. Also, unlike Scarfers, you CAN switch moves. For faster mons like Floatzel... that's where Aqua Jet comes in. +4 Aqua Jet in Rain does 60-70% to Floatzel, so if you want to revenge Floatzel, try to weaken Floatzel first.

Edit: If you're confident enough that Kabutops will survive a Physical hit (well Kabutops is pretty bulky Physically, especially with HP investment), go with Salac. You'll get +5 best scenario.
 
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252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 247-291 (87.9 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyukumuku: 269-317 (107.1 - 126.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-B Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Araquanid: 265-313 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

I have 3 words

Nerf. Kyurem. B.
While you're right in that transferring its Attack to SpA for the sake of coverage, it means nothing in a meta full of Assault Vest users. Furthermore, you calculated all those (except Tapu Koko) using their defense stats, which is... well, let's just say I fail to see the logic behind that. Beause, all things considered, this is how it should go:

252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-White Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Araquanid: 134-160 (39.5 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-White Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Lele: 122-146 (43.4 - 51.9%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO

I am using Kyurem-White as it is, essentially, the very same thing.

At the end of the day it doesn't kill anything that would not be naturally oneshotted by other equally or even stronger means due to their squishiness, so yeah.
 
Why is no one including Rocks with these calculations?

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Araquanid: 134-160 (39.5 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Lele: 122-146 (43.4 - 51.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Alternately, it's a testament to how lopsided the metagame is towards spamming sweepers that Spikes haven't seen more usage, with incredibly powerful users in Accelgor and Cloyster.
 
Why is no one including Rocks with these calculations?
I'll speak for myself, for I don't know how others manage, but I find it hard to carry a Hazard setter with so many potential sweepers and AV holders to choose and to build up against.
 

SaturnZelda

formerly TylerWithNumbers
Why is no one including Rocks with these calculations?

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Araquanid: 134-160 (39.5 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Teravolt Kyurem-Black Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Lele: 122-146 (43.4 - 51.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Alternately, it's a testament to how lopsided the metagame is towards spamming sweepers that Spikes haven't seen more usage, with incredibly powerful users in Accelgor and Cloyster.
Like Metan said, it's hard to fit rock setters without becoming weak to other things. I personally do run rocks (see my above post), but I can see why rocks aren't relevant enough to be included in calcs.
 
I've found suicide leads to actually be a very reliable way of getting Rocks up. Aerodactyl is the fastest Pokemon in the game that can learn Stealth Rock and Taunt, and Sash Aero has rarely ever failed me. Most teams that spam speed boosting don't have anti-hazard countermeasures, or if they do they're not incredibly effective at employing it, so you can be sure early Rocks are a great investment.
 
I suppose that makes sense. While I've had problems to find a rock setter, it'll be much harder to find a spinner, as that would mean not only sacrificing a coverage move but also a turn, assuming there will be one to let go, and from the looks of it nobody would dare swap out an AV for Defog.
 
I personally have a spinner on my team (Claydol isn't bad at all with an assault vest either) so that I can still have assault vest. However, I will say this for the meta as well: It's not easy for ferrothorn to be a rock setter. He gets murdilated real easily.
 
So with the metagame being all about Speed or Electric Terrain/Rain teams and someone's talk about Claydol, I tried playing with some Trick Room ideas (warning: EVs might not exactly be ideal but its just to get the point across):


Dusclops @ Eviolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Shadow Sneak
- Sucker Punch
- Shadow Ball/Trick Room
- Brick Break/Fire Punch/Ice Beam/Pain Split

Dusclops's main problem in normal play is its utter lack of offensive presence. Thanks to Eviolite, it can use its Special Defense stat to surprise your Surge Surfing Alolan Raichus with a powerful Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch. These two moves are very important especially when Trick Room runs out and you find yourself in low health. I've tested it out using other pokemon like Claydol/Porygon-2 as Trick Roomers, but Dusclops is definitely bulky enough to set up its own Trick Room as well. Last slots could be whatever coverage you need- while Brick Break is kind of weak it has some good coverage with Ghost (it's the same base power as the Elemental Punches anyway). Otherwise, you can use Fire Punch for Steels, or Ice Beam against the fast fliers like Aerodactyl/Crobat. Pain Split if you want some recovery.


Kecleon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Fake Out
- Fire Blast/Thunderbolt

Similarly, I've used a priority-abuser AV Kecleon set as a great revenge killer with the Protean STAB bonus. I found Fire Blast works better against Steel types although Thunderbolt can be used to abuse Electric Terrain or against Rain teams or fast Flying types like Aerodactyl/Swellow.


Muk-Alola @ Assault Vest
Ability: Poison Touch
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak/Acid Spray
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit

Alolan Muk had some surprising utility as a last-minute addition. Knock Off is great against the Assault Vests/Eviolites flying around. Fire Blast surprises would-be Steel switch-ins. Pursuit for trapping Alolan Raichus. Shadow Sneak + Poison Touch can provide some clutch KOs or support, while Acid Spray is meant to go with Pursuit for those who don't like their Special Defense weakening. Other options include Gunk Shot if you really don't like Tapu Koko or other Fairies.


Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Trick Room

Porygon2 has been a pretty consistent user of Trick Room for me, it worked well as a lead to quickly turn the tables for high speed users. In case it goes against something like Taunt Aerodactyl, it has Boltbeam to deal with the flying dinosaur. Trace has led to some interesting ability changes, although I'm not sure if Download would be a better choice or how it interacts to the metagame's coding.

As briefly mentioned above, Claydol has great utility in this metagame- whether it be Trick Room, SR setting or spinning. The fact it has offensive presence now makes me so giddy!
 
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Piloswine @ Eviolite
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Amnesia
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

This Pokemon could be very good in switching into scarf Tapu Koko or Alolan Raichu, setting up an Amnesia and using the 3 moves for a sweep. If the Alolan Raichu is scarfed, it can switch in on an Electro ball and get a free setup. Since the meta game is specially orientated, Piloswine could also be able to find instances where it can set up Amnesia and sweep the enemy. One drawback of this set is it NEEDS stealth rock so it has a reliable chance of Ice Shard OHKOing an Alolan Raichu after Amnesia
Some calcs:

+1 248 SpA Tapu Koko Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 190-224 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 73.4% chance to 2HKO
+1 248 SpA Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 142-168 (35.2 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252- Atk Piloswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko in Electric Terrain: 374-444 (108.7 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO


+2 36 Atk Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 203-239 (50.3 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (this means you can't switch Piloswine in if it is locked in E-speed)
+2 36 Atk Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Eviolite Piloswine: 145-171 (35.9 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 36 SpA Raichu-Alola Surf vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Piloswine: 270-318 (66.9 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 0- Atk Piloswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Alola: 228-268 (87.3 - 102.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This means if on switch in, they use Electro Ball, you can survive any of the moves above and use Amnesia next turn and use Ice Shard to OHKO Alolan Raichu, most of the time and begin a sweep
 
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong with the following calcs, because I would rather have than than realize just how overpowered Alola-Raichu--or rather, speed boosting abilities in general--is. Wall of text incoming.

According to calculations, a 110 base stat doubled (due to Surge Surfer) results in a total base stat of 247; that is, naturally, without counting EVs or nature. Slap a positive nature and some few EVs (let's use 80, as it's enough to outspeed an unchoiced Excadrill under sand) and we end up with a total of 605 in its highest stat. It means that, after a Choice Scarf, this reaches 907, and after one single Agility, this skyrockets up to 1210. Not even a Manaphy, under normal circumstances, would reach that much SpA after one Tail Glow.

And then, the damage calcs, with Life Orb. I will not use Hazards for these calculations. In order to to simulate its other stats, I have set its Attack and Speed to a base 255 with 236 EVs, reaching the value of 605:

80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 247-292 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 411-485 (64 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 253-299 (39.4 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Swapping the Life Orb out for a Choice Scarf, it goes up to 907, as mentioned. I have boosted Attack, Special Attack and Speed to +1 for the sake of the simulation:

+1 80+ SpA Raichu-Alola Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 286-337 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
+1 80+ SpA Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 474-558 (73.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236 Atk Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 292-344 (45.4 - 53.5%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO

Swapping the Choice Scarf for, say, Life Orb again and then giving it an Agility Boost, I will increase all of the aforementioned stats to a +2 boost:

+2 80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 493-581 (76.7 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Electric Terrain: 820-967 (127.7 - 150.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 236 Atk Life Orb Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 506-595 (78.8 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And there you have Raichu-A as the Pokémon that can not only oneshot a Chansey but also overkill it by a great margin. You can only ever respond to that with a sashed/Sturdy Pokémon, both of which go to waste if rocks are up. Potentially with a Scarfed Excadrill under sandstorm; as in, only if said Alola-Raichu is not scarfed or already boosted by Agility, or its Electric Terrain has ran out, but then chances are your team already has been tore up a gigantic hole. Otherwise, you can imagine how many times that Surf would kill it over.

Assault Vested Tyranitar can work if it's Life Orb or Choiced, but that requires said Tyranitar to be at least above half health:

80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 153-183 (37.9 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 208-246 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 80+ SpA Raichu-Alola Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 178-211 (44.1 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
+1 80+ SpA Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 297-351 (73.6 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 outright kills it:

+2 80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 308-364 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar: 516-608 (128 - 150.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Other Tapus can stop the murder train, but that also depends on the circumstance:

80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 107-126 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
236 Atk Life Orb Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 169-200 (49.1 - 58.1%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

+1 80+ SpA Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 153-181 (44.4 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+1 236 Atk Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 196-231 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery

+2 80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Bulu: 265-313 (77 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 236 Atk Life Orb Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 338-399 (98.2 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO


80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Lele: 126-149 (44.8 - 53%) -- 29.7% chance to 2HKO
+1 80+ SpA Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Lele: 216-255 (76.8 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Lele: 468-551 (166.5 - 196%) -- guaranteed OHKO


80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Fini: 229-273 (66.7 - 79.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
236 Atk Life Orb Raichu-Alola Extreme Speed vs. 248 HP / 192 Def Tapu Fini: 144-170 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

While Fini is able to take an Electro Ball to the face, as long as it's not boosted, one Choice Scarf proves to be more than enough to oneshot it:

+1 80+ SpA Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Fini: 494-584 (144 - 170.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 80+ SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Electro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tapu Fini: 858-1009 (250.1 - 294.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I believe this should suffice to prove how not only Alola-Raichu but essentially anything that has access to speed boosting abilities can turn out to be merciless and often gives you no answer other than to somehow abuse of those same broken settings. Or, dunno, forfeit.

I'm aware it has been mentioned time and time again that those abilities are broken in this meta, I just took the effort to calculate how destructive one of them can be.
 

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