Leading in UU

This lead has worked pretty well for me:


Alakazam@focus sash
Inner focus
Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
252 speed, 252 sp atc 4 hp
-Taunt
-Counter
-Psychic
-Shadow ball/magic coat/other support or attack move


This thing destroys or stops the setting up of lots of popular leads. So many people expect trickscarf, that they just attack right off the bat, and get countered to the face. Froslass gets taunted, although you die to the Shadow ball+ice shard versions. Ambipom gets psychic'ed, taunted, or countered through the fake out. Uxie gets taunted or shadow balled, and the trickscarf versions provide you with a lightning fast revenge killer later on. It does a good amount to moltres and electrode with psychic, and if you predict a U turn from a mon, you can counter the switch in. with magic coat, it can beat scarfed sleepers like venusaur too. It obviously destroys hariyama, snover, hippopotas, and other weak leads with psychic.
 
The amount of leads in this thread that give Froslass 1-2 Spikes at the very least is ridiculous. If you don't want to lose to every team with Froslass I'd recommend not using leads like TrickScarf Uxie/Jynx.
Given that you've advocated Scarf sleep leads in the past, I'm surprised you're not a little more supportive of that Jynx. Lovely Kiss has the same accuracy as Sleep Powder...
 
There's one UU i've seen beat many leads and paired with dugtrio alot on that top list gets beat....Mespirit...great movepool to hit the majority of the list for supereffective...It's main selling point is its 105 Sp. Atk+ grass knot+ u-turn...I have used 1 set and from what others have used too..

Mesprit@ Lum Berry/ Life Orb
252 HP/ 200 Sp. Atk/ 56 Atk
Mild (+Sp. Atk, - Def)
-Thunderwave
-Grass knot
-Zen Headbutt/Psychic
-U-turn

heh here's an overall list of the leads Thorns presented (Some are paired with dugtrio)

Frosslass: gets at least one lair of spikes in as U-turn +Dugtrio is a clean KO.

Uxie: can paralyze and doesnt mind taking a trick...But uxie usually gets the job done with what its set is designed to do

Aimbipom: Wins.

Moltres: Survive's a LO Fire Blast and paralyzes

Alakazam: Mostly just Tricks/attacks/taunt, mesprit beats with U-turn + Dugtrio

Electrode: Wins. Sets up rain

Omastar: Beats with grass knot

Hippopotas: Beats with grass knot (If focus sash beats with U-turn combo

Rhyperior: Beats with grass knot

Cloyster: Beats most with grass knot

Arcanine: Can paralyze, but most leads carry lum berry, while arcanine can 2HKO with flare blitz.

Venasaur: Choice scarf Venasaur lead uses sleep powder, with lum berry Mespirit can paralyze then U-turn to someone to take sleep powder.

Kabutops: Beats with grass knot

Snover: I would assume one would just U-turn and send in a counter. (I havent faced one yet.)


Edit: forgot about Hariyama...2HKOs with psychic/zen headbutt..but Flame Orbed Hariyama wins by fake out+Payback+Bullet Punch...This beats mesprit..

Also note zen headbutt is useful if you want to get the paraflinch going....lol i felt risky one time and beat the lead venasaur with it..
 
Given that you've advocated Scarf sleep leads in the past, I'm surprised you're not a little more supportive of that Jynx. Lovely Kiss has the same accuracy as Sleep Powder...
The Jynx is "better" but Scarf Saur can at least Leaf Storm Froslass for the 2HKO rather than Sleep to be safe.
 
Why couldn't Jynx Psychic or Shadowball for the 1-2HKO~

Also,

"Lovely Kiss has the same accuracy as Sleep Powder... "

Lovely Kiss actually has 5 more accuracy.

Another Also,

I always Trick Froslass leads, with Uxie that is. I generally get up SR and then U-Turn out to my Pursuiter. Either Froslass was the solo-spin blocker or the dual ghost core is now a mono-ghost effort.
 
Another Also,

I always Trick Froslass leads, with Uxie that is. I generally get up SR and then U-Turn out to my Pursuiter. Either Froslass was the solo-spin blocker or the dual ghost core is now a mono-ghost effort.
Why Trick Froslass? You could just U-turn out to the Pursuiter at once. If you Trick at once, then SR, then U-turn, Froslass gets 3 layers and Pursuit kills Froslass (but Froslass gets to hit your Pursuiter, depending on who is faster). If you U-turn at once, Froslass gets 1/2 layers and Pursuit kills Froslass, and you reserve Uxie's Trick for a Raikou who's just used Calm Mind (say). With tremendous bulk, Uxie will have chances to switch in after all, and with Choice Scarf you can set up SR before faster sweepers kill you.
 
You make a good point. I guess I want to be sure that I kill Froslass with minimal immediate damage to my team. I want to refrain from giving Froslass a Destiny Bond KO or severely weakening my Pursuit user with Pain Split+Ice Beam. I guess I should clarify that my Pursuit user is generally Skuntank who can keep Pokemon like Alakazam, Sceptile, and Swellow in check.

Also, I always pair my Pursuit user with Dugtrio. Dugtrio can take out said Raikou with little effort as well as Registeel who loves switching into a "Choice Band" Pursuit.
 
What would Protecting against Alakazam accomplish? It'll just have wait to one more turn to turn Hariyama into paste and if it's a Sub variant you just got badly screwed.
That wasn't his point. He meant that using Fake Out is pointless (Inner Focus). Protect as you said is just as pointless.

Ummm why not run fake out over protect? You get in some damage and can break sashes and can help put some opponents into K.O range of bullet punch
Ambipom. With Protect Hariyama's ability to beat all of the "big 3" with relative ease makes it one of the best anti-leads in the metagame right now. I'd also like to point out that it makes a great lead for hyper offense that doesn't need stealth rock that badly - it "loses" only to Alakazam.

Fun fact: Protect + Burned Hariyama Bullet Punch vs Alakazam - 50.6% - 59.8%

That's a large chunk of health if you're really going to stay in on zam in the first place
 
@ Spooky Plate
Quiet, Pressure
EV: 244 HP, 48 Att, 12 Spe, 206 Sp. Att
Shadow Ball
Shadow Sneak
Pursuit
HP (fighting), HP (Rock)

Why:
I used to use Ambipom to stop Froslass, but I've found it to only stop her temperarily. She at times, come in later and set up her 3 layer of spikes. So I needed a lead that can destroy her. I've recently came across this Spiritomb on the creative thread on the UU thing. It caught my eye almost instantly. Here are some calculations. Here what Shadow Ball can do.

Shadow Ball vs. 252 / 4 Uxie: 58.19% - 69.49%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 / 0 Alakazam: 95.54% - 100%
Shadow Ball vs. 248 / 0 Froslass: 100% (!)
Shadow Ball vs. 252 / 4 Omastar: 50.87% - 60.17%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 / 96 Cloyster: 67.11% - 79.28%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 / 0 Spiritomb: 40.46 - 47.70%
Shadow Ball vs. 192 / 0 Arcanine: 42.55% - 50.41%
Shadow Ball vs. 252 / 0 Donphan: 51.04% - 60.42%

With power like that, how could I refuse? I tested him out right away, and got immediate results. Sure Froslass might get 1 spikes down, but that's all it's getting down.

Moves:
Shadow Ball is it's main attack. You saw the calcs and what it can do. Shadow Sneak is to get rid of those sash survivors. Pursuit hurts Ambipom as as he tries to taunt or U-turn (Uxie is also hurt if it tries to U-turn). I'm not sure what to do with HP. Who do you think is better to hit? Random steel types or Moltres?

EVs:
The EVs are tailored to provide strong damage output physically and specially. With 244 HP EVs, Spiritomb will always survive Moltres's Life Orb boosted Fire Blast at full health. 12 Speed EVs allow Spiritomb to outpace Steelix and Slowbro.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Been my lead for a long while (using HP fighting). Team's in sig, but it has changed since when I posted it.
 
I think you're forgetting steelix. It makes a nice supporter and check to raikou....it doesn't die very easily. It may not be THE best lead, but it has been working fine for me.

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SDef
Sassy/Careful nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Gyro Ball
- Roar/Toxic/Explosion

Heh, I guess it differs from Rhyperior because ir doesn't die to any special attack...even without solid rock! It also doesn't hold nasty 4x weaknesses, so he's a little harder to kill.
 
Steelix can't really do much to Froslass except for Gyro Ball for the 2HKO (Froslass gets two layers) or Roar it (which could potentially be one to three layers).
 
Lead Regirock is really nice. I used 252 HP/ 252 Atk Adamant, with Stone Edge, Stealth Rock, Explosion, and either Hammer Arm or Earthquake. Hammer Arm is useful for the OHKO on Ambipom who try to Taunt you, and helps you hit Cloyster leads without relying on Stone Edge. In fact, Hammer Arm is probably the more useful move overall. Earthquake lets you hit... none of the leads really, although I used it more as a last-resort Raikou check.

It does lose to Cloyster, Omastar, and Kabutops leads though. But, the Omastar/Cloyster user has to decide between getting up spikes and being KOed, or KOing Regirock without getting Spikes up.

This lead may be similar to Rhyperior, however, Regirock can beat Moltres since it doesn't die to HP grass in one hit, and fares better against Arcanine, and more importantly, Frosalss leads. Explosion also lets it kill leads like Uxie.

Regirock is a great lead to use, but it has to sacrifice a lot of its bulk. Be warned.
Hey thank u soo much. I read this and tried out this regi lead nd its amazing. Its my favorite lead ever.
 

shrang

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Anyone tried an Aggron lead??

Aggron @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spe
-Stealth Rock
-Head Smash
-Aqua Tail
-Low Kick

Yes, I know you would let Froslass get up 2 layers, but whatever. Ambipom with Low Kick is getting less popular these days so Aggron can actually like Moltres, start hurting a lot of things right off the bat. Usually, when I use this lead, I get up SR if possible, then just go on a Head Smash spree. Your opponent would either let their lead die, or simply switch in something and watch it die to Head Smash or get massively dented.
 

FlareBlitz

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I tried Aggron @ Chople Berry in case I ran into the odd Ambipom that did use Low Kick. It's also fun to bluff a choice set, and helps you take random fighting priority.
 
I've been playing around with this, and it works decently as an Offensive Lead:
Golem @ Focus Sash
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe, Adamant

Rock Blast
Earthquake
Explosion
Stealth Rock / Sucker Punch

Explosion is the only thing stopping this from just being an inferior Rhyperior set. You outspeed base 75's and below, such as Claydol, Nidoqueen, Cloyster, Omastar, and Rhyperior, to name some important ones. You can 2HKO Rhyperior, Nidoqueen, and Omastar, leaving them with the option of hurting you or getting entry hazards down. If they go for hazards, it's very plausible that you get another kill with your still intact sash and explosion. Uxie unfortunately isn't OHKO'ed by Explosion, but you can leave it with a sliver of health, which is still nice if you are relying on Rapid Spin support later. Steelix is 2HKO'ed on average by Earthquake, while Regirock unfortunately survives around 2/3's of the time. Rock Blast deals with Froslass, which is one of the main draws of the set. If your opponent uses an instant damage lead as well, you can feasibly save his sash for later. Obviously, you'll want some plan against Sleep leads.
 
Espeon@Choice Scarf
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Modest/Synchronize

-Psychic
-Signal Beam
-Trick
-Baton Pass

This lead loses to Ambipom, but really does a number on everything else. Outspeeds every single lead in the game, 2HKOs Froslass, Omastar, Alakazam (sash), less defensive Uxie, and OHKOs even Scarfsaur before the Sleep Powder. I also 6-0'd a Rain team with a CH Psychic on his Electrode lead =x

Trick screws over Chansey and other possible switch ins, Baton Pass lets it run from Pursuit leads like Drapion.
 

Bluewind

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Isn't running Alakazam better? More speed, attack, Inner Focus to beat Ambipom and Focus Blast. The only drawback I see is lack of Baton Pass, and considering Pursuit leads like Drapion aren't among the most common leads, I don't think it really matters; being its only alternative use scouting.
 
Isn't running Alakazam better? More speed, attack, Inner Focus to beat Ambipom and Focus Blast. The only drawback I see is lack of Baton Pass, and considering Pursuit leads like Drapion aren't among the most common leads, I don't think it really matters; being its only alternative use scouting.
Zam is a bit more obvious (People always assume specs on Espeon) and Espeon is a bit more bulky (survives Swellow's U-Turn pre-guts boost and Scarf Moltres Fire Blast).
 

Bluewind

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Well Scarf on Alakazam isn't something people would expect I'd say, especially with that base 120 speed; but the bulk works I guess.
 

uragg

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I've been using a Cloyster anti-lead recently, and it's been pretty effective. I remember offensive Cloyster being popular for handling Lass a while back, but I haven't seen one for a long time.

Cloyster @ Focus Sash
EVs: 252 HP, 124 Attack, 132 Special Attack
Brave, Skill Link
-Rock Blast
-Surf
-Ice Shard
-Explosion

Rock Blast beats Froslass, Moltres, and the Snover hail leads. Ice Shard because prioriy is always nice. Surf lets it break through physically defensive leads such as Steelix and Regirock, as well as OHKOing Hippos. Explosion for the awesome finish because everybody and their mother brings in a bulky water to deal with Cloyster if their lead can't handle it, which immediately creates a huge hole in their defensive core.

The EVs aren't specialized for anything, but the general idea was to give it enough bulk to be a useful physical defender if I decide to save it or I'm presented with a bad lead match-up such as Uxie or Registeel. They can definitely be improved to net some 2HKOs or such, but I'm too lazy to run calcs and stuff right now.
 
One of the coolest anti leads i used so far:


Floatzel @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 speed, 4 HP
Jolly, Swift Swim
-Taunt
-Aqua Tail/Waterfall
-Aqua Jet
-Return/Ice Punch/Crunch

Taunt is obvious (no Froslass/Cloyster/Omastar/Uxie/whatever setting up on you!).

Aqua Tail or Waterfall is your choice. Aqua Tail is stronger and can 2HKO Steelix/Regirock (also has a high CH rate), but can miss. Waterfall is reliable and also has a flinch chance.

Aqua Jet is always welcomed for a lead set. It can also serve as a revenge poke.

Return is the first choice on the last since no pokes besides Shedinja resists both. Ice Punch deals more damage to grass pokes, and Crunch deals more damage on Slowking.

Swift Swim means Floatzel puts some pressure on Rain Dance teams right from the start.
 

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