NOC Matrix 12 NOC - Game Over, Mafia Wins

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Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Blazade subbing out is honestly the biggest bs alongside Asek subbing because Asek couldn't answer why he had ignored blazade that one push and then the sub behavior made me think the slot was clean

I think this game really was ruined by subs it made me doubt my previously strong scum read onto the blazade slot that I otherwise would've nailed

Also nobody listening to me about ID being mafia until I talked myself out of it zzzzzz sigh

I played poorly hammering there but Empoof NO I hammered there to ensure it wasn't scum Knights and I thought the only way I could prove scum hawkie was doing that and going to LYLO against him you were NEVER supposed to lynch hawkie there if it wasn't against me why have you done this :(
 

Asek

Banned deucer.
Blazade subbing out is honestly the biggest bs alongside Asek subbing because Asek couldn't answer why he had ignored blazade that one push and then the sub behavior made me think the slot was clean
when i said 'main' voices i meant people actually pushing the discussion around leet, blazade just placed a vote and fucked off
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Just ugh my play and reads got so poor later on after I had Id and blazade marked as scummy early on

That subbing is honestly such a game changing event bc it let lw do something many of us perceived as extremely town that otherwise blazade NEVER would have been able to emulate
 
The other subs were just as game changing if not more so or did you forget where you came from, Yeti?

I really did try to stay but in my 3 days of complete absence the thread had blown up beyond compehension
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Can people stop joining nocs if they don't intend to fully play through them I get some people lost Internet access but a lot of these subs were just people pissing off for whatever dumb reason and it makes it extremely hard to keep an accurate scumread on people when this let's the sub do something potentially very cleaning

I had the ID slot nailed off of the discrepancy between fh and his behavior but NOBODY BELIEVE and instead wanted to go on Pancake d4 gdi you buffoons
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Ullar himself was a sub because once again flyhn does absolutely nothing in a mafia, if flyhn had remained in and played like he did in popcorn maybe this slot would have been hard town read like it always should have been

Props to moody hawkie texas and Knights for starting the game and staying in it to our bitter end
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I think I just don't know Texas's meta well enough and honestly could not keep this game straight anymore so I just sheeped hawkie on him, sorry dude that was a bad play of mine and I wish this game hadn't begun to overlap with championship
 
Can people stop joining nocs if they don't intend to fully play through them I get some people lost Internet access but a lot of these subs were just people pissing off for whatever dumb reason and it makes it extremely hard to keep an accurate scumread on people when this let's the sub do something potentially very cleaning

I had the ID slot nailed off of the discrepancy between fh and his behavior but NOBODY BELIEVE and instead wanted to go on Pancake d4 gdi you buffoons
 

LightWolf

lightwoof
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I got a heart attack when I saw 3 extra pages, thinking it was hawkie and empoof arguing.

Whew this was the worst game for me EVER. The amount of stress and frustration of the game being twisted by constant subs and very early scum deaths essentially making it impossible for me to legitimately scum read anyone was breaking me into pieces. After the ID flip too many people looked good(mostly because the mislynches gave way too much time) and since I was never around for EoD I couldn't pull any town weight on me for causing the ID lynch(I blame timezones).

My plan subbing in was simple, use the fresh start, ignore I'm mafia, and play to win as town. Frankly what hurt that plan most was that people had misgivings about Blazade already, but having fresh knowledge of the first 3 days no one really had by then, especially not subs gave me weapons to disarm suspicions. That being said I did notice something pretty damning for myself, when discussing why mafia would kill people, namely that Asek's attempted murder was a bit too easy to see lol.

Either way, at first I planned to kill myself n4 had ID gotten lynched, because while Jailer is hidden, a single scum nearly never wins. After that luckily ID took Moody out with him into the open. From there I had a very simple strat. Reread day 4-5 and determine who are suspicious. Had I found Texas sus, and no one outside the PoE, I'd have been okay with either Texas and Knights lynch, then I'd have killed the other during the night. I'd then attempt to focus on town play to make them unsure of each other and hopefully mislynch. If I had found someone suspicious outside the PoE, I'd have worked to disassemble the PoE, and therefore the reasoning that always puts me at a disadvantage in LYLO.

What however ended up happening was not finding anyone but Knights even remotely reasonable to push, and people like Yeti and Hawkie looked better than ever after ID flipping. So I had one option, set up an ideal scum is outside of PoE scenario. Texas lynch was in my favour, so I took my chances and pocketed Texas and tried pushing Knights. I removed Fort as I judged him the hardest to get a mislynch on during LYLO, simply because it looks the worst for me if I take them there. It also helped that Hawkie and Yeti gave each other shady looks from that, which was lucky as I didn't have to point it out myself in LYLO.

My gambit in the end was, if I can have Hawkie and Yeti both as viable targets on n6, it could be reasoned one of them killed fort earlier to make it seem cleaner when one of them is taken to LYLO, since only the two of them were options. I did however avoid looking into either for anything I could push them, this was to have realistic progression during the final day as I scour for anything that'd help me lynch Hawkie. So yeah everything I dug up for Hawkie was not prepared.

Finally on why I choose Hawkie, I already honestly answered that. Both of them would do for the theoretical above, but Yeti is someone who'd likely weed me out with her playstyle. With Hawkie I hoped he'd keep playing like a town, rather than pushing me to the extreme like I expected Yeti to do. It's much easier to deal with the former than the latter.

SG everyone, Stressful Game. Not to say it wasn't fun, but there is a reason after spending 3 days catching up I went inactive in the middle of day 5. Now I can't wait to be lynched in my next noc due to playing like this, I will thoroughly enjoy proving my playstyle correct.
 

Haruno

Skadi :)
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
I got a heart attack when I saw 3 extra pages, thinking it was hawkie and empoof arguing.

Whew this was the worst game for me EVER. The amount of stress and frustration of the game being twisted by constant subs and very early scum deaths essentially making it impossible for me to legitimately scum read anyone was breaking me into pieces. After the ID flip too many people looked good(mostly because the mislynches gave way too much time) and since I was never around for EoD I couldn't pull any town weight on me for causing the ID lynch(I blame timezones).

My plan subbing in was simple, use the fresh start, ignore I'm mafia, and play to win as town. Frankly what hurt that plan most was that people had misgivings about Blazade already, but having fresh knowledge of the first 3 days no one really had by then, especially not subs gave me weapons to disarm suspicions. That being said I did notice something pretty damning for myself, when discussing why mafia would kill people, namely that Asek's attempted murder was a bit too easy to see lol.

Either way, at first I planned to kill myself n4 had ID gotten lynched, because while Jailer is hidden, a single scum nearly never wins. After that luckily ID took Moody out with him into the open. From there I had a very simple strat. Reread day 4-5 and determine who are suspicious. Had I found Texas sus, and no one outside the PoE, I'd have been okay with either Texas and Knights lynch, then I'd have killed the other during the night. I'd then attempt to focus on town play to make them unsure of each other and hopefully mislynch. If I had found someone suspicious outside the PoE, I'd have worked to disassemble the PoE, and therefore the reasoning that always puts me at a disadvantage in LYLO.

What however ended up happening was not finding anyone but Knights even remotely reasonable to push, and people like Yeti and Hawkie looked better than ever after ID flipping. So I had one option, set up an ideal scum is outside of PoE scenario. Texas lynch was in my favour, so I took my chances and pocketed Texas and tried pushing Knights. I removed Fort as I judged him the hardest to get a mislynch on during LYLO, simply because it looks the worst for me if I take them there. It also helped that Hawkie and Yeti gave each other shady looks from that, which was lucky as I didn't have to point it out myself in LYLO.

My gambit in the end was, if I can have Hawkie and Yeti both as viable targets on n6, it could be reasoned one of them killed fort earlier to make it seem cleaner when one of them is taken to LYLO, since only the two of them were options. I did however avoid looking into either for anything I could push them, this was to have realistic progression during the final day as I scour for anything that'd help me lynch Hawkie. So yeah everything I dug up for Hawkie was not prepared.

Finally on why I choose Hawkie, I already honestly answered that. Both of them would do for the theoretical above, but Yeti is someone who'd likely weed me out with her playstyle. With Hawkie I hoped he'd keep playing like a town, rather than pushing me to the extreme like I expected Yeti to do. It's much easier to deal with the former than the latter.

SG everyone, Stressful Game. Not to say it wasn't fun, but there is a reason after spending 3 days catching up I went inactive in the middle of day 5. Now I can't wait to be lynched in my next noc due to playing like this, I will thoroughly enjoy proving my playstyle correct.
Any particular reason you chose to kill yeti so late in the game and/or decided to go for final 3 over final 4?
 

LightWolf

lightwoof
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I stick by final 4 being shit. Yeti around would likely have pushed Hawkie into higher gear as well. A much better argument is killing Empoof over Fort, which while I considered, I couldn't do after the PoE set in, it would be always preferred to lynch me off before I can benefit from dead empoof.

As for Yeti, I cite Effect over Cause. It worked out, therefore it was a good idea.
 
I stick by final 4 being shit. Yeti around would likely have pushed Hawkie into higher gear as well. A much better argument is killing Empoof over Fort, which while I considered, I couldn't do after the PoE set in, it would be always preferred to lynch me off before I can benefit from dead empoof.

As for Yeti, I cite Effect over Cause. It worked out, therefore it was a good idea.
if you'd cc'd empoof on Lylo or Mylo with the claim that you misread your pm I would have actually believed you
but that's not very reliable from your POV xD

without even relying on "Effect over Cause", I think you probably provided yourself with the most optimal environment for a win

hawkie's emotional outbursts, while NAI from him because that's just how he plays, tend to be what I'd expect a scumtell to look like from most players in the game
 

LightWolf

lightwoof
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I'd like to thank deadcheat(not a typo) for spending a page talking about how shit me not killing Empoof with strongman was, as it won me the game. Firstly you can't NOT hunt for the JK with every kill in a scenario where it's a wonder your partner survived and JK being alive and hidden vs only you is 100% game over. Secondly, again ID was strongman, and I had no reason, nor any drive of trying to save him and therefore I had to use strongman there, and would you look at that, it'd have actually mattered on texas Night 5 under the same logic as on Josh: Use the strongman before ID dies, even if it's only in case that target isn't jailer and is jailed instead. Texas kill proved that fear was entirely reasonable.

Thirdly, do people really not understand how much easier it is as scum to win a LYLO where there is a clean? You only have to convince the clean and can safely focus on a single person. Empoof is a blessing, mathematically it favours town, but that is not how it ends up working. In a scenario where no one is conf clean, people argue, therefore the scum in the three is forced to play along, not pull the trigger too early nor too late with locking the vote or having the vote locked. Basically it's a volatile scenario where scum has a much harder time playing the convincing game. Empoof staying alive an not lynching me was my ace in a hole, same as with More Cowbell last time I carried scum to LYLO. From my PoV there is only one scum, and my previous reads lose all meaning because this one person has to be scum.

Frankly in the end I won for something I mentioned during the day, Hawkie didn't argue with me on anything I didn't start. Also deadcheat people, yeah I literally have nothing that makes me look town, because I do not believe there is anything as town I wouldn't do as scum as well, everything is NAI. There was one thing I deliberately avoided doing though, pointing out Yeti's and now deadcheat's complaint as to why I didn't idle instead of killing moody. Why would ANYONE ever do that??? Best case whoever moody targeted gets lynched, whelp back to square one, except there is one less potential target for moody. Even then best case is if empoof was dead and I depend on Moody mistargeting and mislynching till LYLO, even then I'd be doubling the amount of people village get to lynch while I kill no one. Ergo in the situation scum should always kill moody, and even in the situation where empoof is dead, killing moody is still better.
 
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