Metagame Workshop

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Right, but the problem is that because of Prankster, Dark types/Dazzling pokemon will be immune to spore regardless of whether or not Whimsicott is naturally capable of outspeeding them. It's not a bad strategy by any means, but that's something you have to keep in mind if you're looking to utilize Whimsicott effectively. Fortunately, it does have moonblast to hit dark types on the switch in at least.

Also, I mentioned this to Haakunite in a PM but I'm not sure if they saw; either way I'd like to know what everyone else thinks, am I alone in thinking that Innards Out should be quickbanned? The only argument I can see for it staying is that Magic Guard protects from it, and is likely to be a pretty common ability in this meta, but it's honestly offenses only reliable way of dealing with and that kind of limitation on team building isn't fun to play with.
 
Right, but the problem is that because of Prankster, Dark types/Dazzling pokemon will be immune to spore regardless of whether or not Whimsicott is naturally capable of outspeeding them. It's not a bad strategy by any means, but that's something you have to keep in mind if you're looking to utilize Whimsicott effectively. Fortunately, it does have moonblast to hit dark types on the switch in at least.

Also, I mentioned this to Haakunite in a PM but I'm not sure if they saw; either way I'd like to know what everyone else thinks, am I alone in thinking that Innards Out should be quickbanned? The only argument I can see for it staying is that Magic Guard protects from it, and is likely to be a pretty common ability in this meta, but it's honestly offenses only reliable way of dealing with and that kind of limitation on team building isn't fun to play with.
Regarding Innards Out, I definitely agree that it could be punishing for offense - the ability could knock out key wallbreakers on a team in a matchup against stall. However, I think Innards Out is better off just being monitored for the first week or two, and not being outright quickbanned. Much like Magic Guard having limited teambuilding choices, Pyukumuku being the only Innards Out user seems very restrictive for teambuilding on a stall team. While Soak + Toxic + Block + Recover could be VERY punishing in tandem with an Unaware + Magic Guard core supporting it, I'm skeptical on how much usage it would get in an OU based metagame, and it may not make it on every stall team as the metagame grows and develops. However, I definitely think that it's worth taking a look at for suspecting or banning in the near future.
 

Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
Probably the last thing I'll write before this switches over to that cool new thread thats coming soon, but:

Tired of all those dumb weathers blocking off your metagame?
Try Altaria!


Altaria gives us Cloud Nine, where the effects of weathers are disabled, not only can you disable the weathers, you can Mega Evolve into Altaria Mega, granting us Pixilate. now you can make all those Pixilate Tapu Koko MnM sets come true.

Heres another Pokemon that i thought we could look at:

Who needs Tsareena and Bruxish when you have Psychic Terrain? sure, other pokemon are protected from priority too, but hey, lots of teams are going to run levitate, so if you dont have a levitate mon, Lele's for you.
 
From what I recall, Lele was on the initial list of potential bans. Not sure if it really deserves to be, but keep that in mind.
 

Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
From what I recall, Lele was on the initial list of potential bans. Not sure if it really deserves to be, but keep that in mind.
Yeah, but arent the banned pokemon basically for un-passable abilities? Lele would still be good even if it couldnt pass abilities.
 
Yeah, but arent the banned pokemon basically for un-passable abilities? Lele would still be good even if it couldnt pass abilities.
This isn’t exactly how it works.

It’s fairly easy to identify whether we should ban a Pokemon or an Ability. We just have to ask ourselves which one is the problem. In Lele’s case, the problem isn’t what it provides for the team, but rather, what the rest of the team provides for it, so Tapu Lele is banned and not Psychic Surge. An ability like Protean would be absolutely broken on things like Magearna, but is perfectly fine on Greninja even with the boosts from its teammates, so Protean is banned and not Greninja.

Another update I’d like to make: I have decided to unban Deoxys-Defense for the time being. Stall seems like it will have trouble keeping up with the wallbreaking power of the metagame. Deoxys-Defense also can’t hazard stack nearly as effectively as it wants to thanks to the overwhelming presence of Magic Guard teams. We shall see whether it will still be a broken Pokemon in this metagame, though I don’t see how it could be.
 

Mintly

formerly Spook
is an Artist
This isn’t exactly how it works.

It’s fairly easy to identify whether we should ban a Pokemon or an Ability. We just have to ask ourselves which one is the problem. In Lele’s case, the problem isn’t what it provides for the team, but rather, what the rest of the team provides for it, so Tapu Lele is banned and not Psychic Surge. An ability like Protean would be absolutely broken on things like Magearna, but is perfectly fine on Greninja even with the boosts from its teammates, so Protean is banned and not Greninja.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up. I guess we'll just have to stick with Tsareena/Bruxish/Dark Types for our main source of Prankster Coverage
 
I'm actually not completely sure that Greninja won't be broken on it's own but otherwise 100% agree with the method's you're using to determine what to ban. A better example imo would be Komala, while Comatose + Prankster + Scrappy provides teams with the ability to run priority, no immunity Circle Throw (Which is downright oppressive to any team that doesn't carry regenerator + magic guard or dazzling) there's absolutely nothing you can add to it's repertoire that makes it broken in and of itself.

Also, good call on Deoxys-D. Between Magic Guard and the addition of scrappy Rapid Spin, hazard stacking is almost looking to be near useless in this meta. Thanks to pressure, wrap, seismic toss and a reasonably fast taunt it could end up being an excellent answer to Regenerator/MGuard stall teams, but it's niche changes considerably from OU, and the same set that people considered broken is now practically dead weight. I think the same could be said for Deoxys-s, though it's massive speed stat combined with the meta's options for offensive support mean it's at least an effective revenge killer.

If we're talking suspects, I think Intimidate should be looked at somewhere down the line. It's not nearly as powerful as some of the abilities currently allowed, but has fantastic donors and has the potential to render physical attackers nearly useless. It's one downside is that running it alongside Unaware makes it useless, but teams that choose to run it over Unaware can opt to run prankster haze to deal with set-up mons.
 

AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
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How will Skill Link interact with Battle Bond Greninja's Water Shuriken? Battle Bond makes it so Water Shuriken only hits 3 times, but Skill Link makes it theorically hit the max ammount of times.

Another thing that could be interesting in the defensive side of the meta is Prism Armor. It's basically Filter, but iirc Mold Breaker cannot ignore it.
Speaking of which, Prism Armor + Filter sounds incredibly gimmicky... But still somewhat effective. It almost halves the damage of Super-Effective moves, making them only slightly stronger than a neutral hit move. Sure, you could opt for picking an immunity instead, but if you want a more universal resistance, there's this. Tho you'll have to run regular Necrozma, which is kind of a weird option.
 
How will Skill Link interact with Battle Bond Greninja's Water Shuriken? Battle Bond makes it so Water Shuriken only hits 3 times, but Skill Link makes it theorically hit the max ammount of times.
It doesn't matter which effect processes first, it always results in 3 hits. Specifically, Battle Bond changes the minimum and maximum to 3, so that Skill Link can't affect it. (And if Battle Bond applies after Skill Link, it ignores the change Skill Link made anyway.)
 
Yeah honestly the meta's rules are a bit confusing, took me a couple readings to feel like I actually understood what it was about. With that in mind, I can say with 100% certainty that it should not be an ubers based meta, as the majority of legendaries technically classify as Basic pokemon, meaning Mega-mewtwo-Y/X, Primal Groudon and others could mega-evolve as well as wield items, and pokemon like Lugia/Giratina become absurdly bulky thanks to eviolite.
 
OM! – That concept was very confusing for me as well to read at first until I read others comments which clarified what was intended. This is not a good sign in general since OMs should be relatively easy to understand to attract new players and such.

Moving on to the actual Metagame, I simply do not see it as a fun format to play. Everything gets the ability to be more offensive, but nothing gets more defensively powerful as it seems intended. For example,

+1 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Eviolite Landorus-Therian: 220-261 (57.5 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 220-261 (57.5 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Landorus-T is a fairly solid check to Mawile-M as it is, but now it can take it on a lot more effectively since even SD sets will lose. However, now you have this happening:

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Mawile-Mega: 164-194 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 246-290 (98 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Mawile-M can now take on a Landorus-T by itself and the cycle continues. Mawile-M can now set up a Swords Dance on the switch in, have +1 Atk, and do damage. This is exactly the same as standard play, but it gives Mawile-M an easier time to set up. This may seem like a nonissue, or even confusing, but I feel the metagame gives an unfair advantage to set up sweepers, since they can now set up and neutralize the opponent's Eviolite with their added bulk... But then you realize that no boost and no Eviolite in the first place would be the exact same thing... So in the end, it just seems like a very uninteresting cycle that's a slightly tweaked version of OU with buffs to Knock Off and setup sweepers. I feel as if it falls under the category of OMs that are "All of x gets all of y", which turn out to be super repetitive and not very exciting to the player.

Sorry if this post is somewhat incoherent, it's 2 AM and I'm tired. Something that I would think about if you want to pursue the idea of Eviolite is instead think about how exactly Eviolite could be utilized in a different way, instead of just "everything can use Eviolite now". Perhaps Eviolite gives Atk/SpA boosts depending on whether a Pokemon's Atk/SpA are higher than Def/SpD stats or something like that. That actually sounds like a kind of interesting idea. Needs more thought though, but it's something to chew on! :)
 
Hello! Today I'm back again with yet another type based om, We don't have enough type-based metas in other metas :3

Plate Change

Have you ever wanted to use a mon that had decent defensive stats but couldn't pull it off due to bad typing? Wanted to use ur favourite offensive mon but had it suffer from a terrible movepool? Well all these problems disappear when you play Plate Change!

Metagame premise: An OU based meta game where a pokemons secondary typing changes to the plate typing its holding while getting access to all moves from that type, and you can change the pokemons primary type according to the memory its holding while getting all moves from that type

Example:


Arcanine @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Lax Nature
- Shore Up
- Earthquake
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flamethrower

By holding a ground plate, arcanine now gets an additional ground typing with access to all ground moves, it now can work as a great intimidator that's neutral to rocks and ice

This also works for offensive threats obviously! Mons can now get better coverage and typing with good plate typing a such as ground/fire/fighting and ghost plates


Azumarill @ Dark Memory
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Liquidation/Aqua Jet/Belly Drum

Since Azu is holding a dark memory, its primary type turns into dark and azumarill now gets stab sucker which hurts


/

Dhelmise @ Iron Plate / Steel Memory
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Synthesis
- Rapid Spin
- Shadow Claw

Probably not gonna be good in a meta full of fire and ground coverage and dhelmise isn't even the best user (it's probably gonna be heatran who's best grass/steel or ghost/steel user), but who cares cause steelworker + stab + iron plate anchor shot still hurts a ton, rapid spin + recovery is also pretty nice

There is many more examples like UBs, Tapus and mythicals I haven't even touched upon, there's so many possibilties

Q. What if my plate gets knocked off?
A. Plates can't be knocked off similarly to how the plate can't be knocked off when arceus is holding it

Q. How do I make my mon get access to normal type moves?
A. Sadly since normal plate does not exist you cannot do that (for the best probably, normal has most broken options in boomburst, judgment, fake speed, shell smash..etc)

Potential bans and threats:
Moves
: quiver dance, v-create, tail glow, shift gear, thousand arrows (many more I just don't remember off the top of my head)
Pokemon: other than obvious shedinja, I'm not sure yet
Tapu Koko and Lele are likely candidates with access to new typings like fire fairy and coverage moves like blue flare and earth power now, Kartana and Kyu-b are also on the watchlist for obvious reasons

Questions for the community:
  • Does this meta sound fun?
  • Some said it looks a bit similar to camo+stab hybrid, does it look that way? If so how do I differentiate it more?
  • Any other things look broken?
Of course if u like this idea show ur support and drop a like! Love to hear your opinions!
 
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AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Community Leader
Ok but changing the Prmary through Memories has a disadvantage since Plates give a boost while Memories don't. Just make Primary/Secondary by being shiny or not.
 
Hello! Today I'm back again with yet another type based om, We don't have enough type-based metas in other metas :3

Plate Change

Have you ever wanted to use a mon that had decent defensive stats but couldn't pull it off due to bad typing? Wanted to use ur favourite offensive mon but had it suffer from a terrible movepool? Well all these problems disappear when you play Plate Change!

Metagame premise: An OU based meta game where a pokemons secondary typing changes to the plate typing its holding while getting access to all moves from that type, and you can change the pokemons primary type according to the memory its holding while getting all moves from that type

Example:


Arcanine @ Earth Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Lax Nature
- Shore Up
- Earthquake
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flamethrower
9
By holding a ground plate, arcanine now gets an additional ground typing with access to all ground moves, it now can work as a great intimidator that's neutral to rocks and ice

This also works for offensive threats obviously! Mons can now get better coverage and typing with good plate typing a such as ground/fire/fighting and ghost plates


Azumarill @ Dark Memory
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Knock Off
- Liquidation/Aqua Jet/Belly Drum

Since Azu is holding a dark memory, its primary type turns into dark and azumarill now gets stab sucker which hurts


/

Dhelmise @ Iron Plate / Steel Memory
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Synthesis
- Rapid Spin
- Shadow Claw

Probably not gonna be good in a meta full of fire and ground coverage and dhelmise isn't even the best user (it's probably gonna be heatran who's best grass/steel or ghost/steel user), but who cares cause steelworker + stab + iron plate anchor shot still hurts a ton, rapid spin + recovery is also pretty nice

There is many more examples like UBs, Tapus and mythicals I haven't even touched upon, there's so many possibilties

Q. What if my plate gets knocked off?
A. Plates can't be knocked off similarly to how the plate can't be knocked off when arceus is holding it

Q. How do I make my mon get access to normal type moves?
A. Sadly since normal plate does not exist you cannot do that (for the best probably, normal has most broken options in boomburst, judgment, fake speed, shell smash..etc)

Potential bans and threats:
Moves
: quiver dance, v-create, tail glow, shift gear, thousand arrows (many more I just don't remember off the top of my head)
Pokemon: other than obvious shedinja, I'm not sure yet
Tapu Koko and Lele are likely candidates with access to new typings like fire fairy and coverage moves like blue flare and earth power now, Kartana and Kyu-b are also on the watchlist for obvious reasons

Questions for the community:
  • Does this meta sound fun?
  • Some said it looks a bit similar to camo+stab hybrid, does it look that way? If so how do I differentiate it more?
  • Any other things look broken?
Of course if u like this idea show ur support and drop a like! Love to hear your opinions!
Dude my meta hasn't been rejected or accepted yet. I know you love my meta but just no...
 
Going off OM!'s idea, I thought about my own idea which revolved around Eviolite.

Instead of now boosting just Defense and Special Defense by 1.5x, it will boost both the Attack and Special Attack stat, depending on which is higher; or, if they're equal to each other, it will stick true to its original property of boosting Def/SpD. For instance...
  • Chansey has 5 Atk and 5 Def, so it will raise Defense; Chansey has 35 SpA and 135 SpD, so it will raise Special Defense.
  • Porygon2 has 80 Atk and 90 Def, so it will raise Defense; Porygon2 has 105 SpA and 95 SpD, so it will raise Special Attack.
  • Rhydon has 130 Atk and 120 Def, so it will raise Attack; Rhydon has 45 SpA and 45 SpD, so it will raise Special Defense.
  • Weepinbell has 90 Atk and 50 Def, so it will raise Attack; Weepinbell has 85 SpA and 45 SpD, so it will raise Special Attack.
Simple enough, right? This is simply just a thought I had, and I don't know if it would change things enough / be a fun enough change to consider. Here is a potential threat:

Rhydon @ Eviolite
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Rhydon now patches up its poor SpD stat and effectively gains a Choice Band boost! At +2, it can do this:

+1 252 Atk Eviolite Rhydon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Landorus-Therian: 292-345 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

That's pretty crazy!

Again, this is merely an idea I gained inspiration from OM!, so credit for the idea prospering goes to him. What do you guys think of this kind of Eviolite-based metagame though? Too complex? Not fun enough? Meh? Let me know!
 
wishes I really like the Eviolite idea you proposed. But I think it'd be interesting to change the mechanics a little bit to make it more interesting. Instead of using base stats to determine which stat is boosted, use raw stats like Photon Geyser and Beast Boost do. So Porygon2 wouldn't always gain Defense boost. Offensive variants would gain a Special Attack raise instead, for exemple. Finally, I also think it'd be interesting not to limit it just to Attack/Defense & Special Attack/Special Defense, and rather, simply boost the two highest stats, this allows for Pokémon to boost both Attack and Defense or both Special stats and also allows boosts to Speed, which is something i feel really would make NFEs like Zweilous and Magneton stand out.

Overall, cool idea of bringing Eviolite to other stats!
 
Interesting OM idea I have been bouncing around in my head for a while.

Hazardmons
Hazardmons is an OU based metagame with a very simple concept: All Pokemon can learn every hazard move. (Stealth Rocks, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web)

This means that every Pokemon can function as a setter of any hazard.

Obviously some play styles get direct buffs, namely HO. Originally, Webs HO was hindered by its reliance on Pokemon with the coveted Sticky Web, but now, there will be no need for Araquanid, Shuckle, or Smeargle. Suddenly, Webs HO can have 6 sweepers, but some with Webs (or Spikes) as a final move, or can use a more reliable setter.

Swellow @ Focus Sash
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Endeavor
- Counter
- U-turn
- Sticky Web
Has the capability to set webs for a team to sweep.


Even with the direct buff to HO, there is the issue that since every Pokemon gets access to webs, both teams will be hindered by webs. With this in mind, I think the dominant strategy will be a sort of "balance webs" that focuses on setting webs but avoids having the opponent set up webs.

Strong Tactics:
Flying Types- Flying Types love this meta! Immunity to webs and wide access to defog will probably be very useful. Specifically, I can see Salamence on HO and Skarmory on balance/stall


Hazard Stacking- Even with the inevitable presence of Webs, standard spikes stacking can become pretty solid now. Pokemon that can force switches such as Mawile-M, Tapu Koko, and others will greatly benefit from access to spikes.

Trick Room- Web-happy opponents will think twice before making your team faster in TR! Switching speed order can clean teams if they are unprepared!

Bans:
I don't thinks that there will be any bans besides what OU implements, but maybe there will be a certain limit to how many Pokemon can use each new hazard, 3 maybe?


Questions:
What do people think of the idea? It's not quite as creative as some of the other ideas posted, but I feel like more chaotic metagames burn out much quicker, while this idea I could imagine having a competitive base to keep it alive; there are many interesting unexplored ideas to be found in the meta!


What do people think of limiting the number non-native hazard setters?
 
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It's not a very interesting concept. Also, you can pretty much do the same thing in Sketchmons.
I agree that the concept is pretty boring flavor-wise, but I think that there is a lot of competitive potential for a metagame where there are no blatantly busted Pokemon, while still being fun (I hope) to players who might want to take it seriously.

Personally, I feel like this metagame is much more interesting than Sketchmons, because Sketchmons buffs individual Pokemon, and you kinda clump them together. This metagame almost forces people to think of tactics that best use hazards based on what people are using. (This is an over-generalization, tactics can be used in Sketchmons, but it is usually harder to think of the overall team when you want to add any move to a Pokemon)

I'll just scrap this idea if flavor is a necessity, but I still think that there is a lot of potential for a hazards based metagame.
 
Memories Past

holding a drive makes you resist the things that type would resist; first move in move slot becomes the drives type.

so for instance tapu koko could run a fairy drive or ice drive depending on what it wanted stab or coverage and go to town

while ferrothorn can hold a water plate to help negate its fire weakness while making leech seed water type

NOTE: drives do not give you the type!



Moltres-fighting,ground drive(coverage plus only 2x weak)
Volcarona-fighting,ground drive(coverage plus only 2x weakness)
Kartana-fire,water,dragon drive(coverage and removing that 4x weakness)


Muk-A-flying drive(did some one say no weaknesses)
Bisharp-Ghost Drive(immunities are fun)
Quagsire-Grass drive
 

AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributor
Community Leader
I agree that the concept is pretty boring flavor-wise, but I think that there is a lot of competitive potential for a metagame where there are no blatantly busted Pokemon, while still being fun (I hope) to players who might want to take it seriously.

Personally, I feel like this metagame is much more interesting than Sketchmons, because Sketchmons buffs individual Pokemon, and you kinda clump them together. This metagame almost forces people to think of tactics that best use hazards based on what people are using. (This is an over-generalization, tactics can be used in Sketchmons, but it is usually harder to think of the overall team when you want to add any move to a Pokemon)

I'll just scrap this idea if flavor is a necessity, but I still think that there is a lot of potential for a hazards based metagame.
Probably all that would happen is more Magic Guard users and Defoggers.
 
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