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drampa's grandpa

cannonball
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As I explained Eeveeium Z is banned and Catastropika is also triggered by Wild Charge in this meta.
While Eevium Z being banned is probably a good idea, changing Catastropika to work with Wild Charge moves this sorta into Pet Mod territory; it's not a change that's inherent in the basic idea of the meta, so if you want this meta to be able to be OMOTM you should probably change that. A similar thing goes for memories. Mechanically they change Silvally's forme, not its type, and unless you want to make any mon that holds a memory turn into that Silvally forme it makes the most sense to have the memories do nothing for any mon but Silvally imo.
 
The document you linked isn't publicly viewable, so we actually had no way of seeing things like "oh, ignore the fact that Pikanium Z requires this particular move, you can use another move in its place".
 

Eve

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Double or Nothing

Metagame premise. as the metagame suggests, this works as follows- every move, regardless of whether it targets the enemy or not, will be affected by double or nothing. If the move is of a super effective type vs the target, it'll be used twice (instead of dealing double damage). If the move is of a not very effective type (or against immunity), the move will fail. If the move is 4x super effective, it'll be used 4 times.

The interesting addition about this meta is that moves will be blocked that did not target the opponent- for instance, want to stop skarmory healing? switch in your electric type, which resists flying. When the opponent clicks roost, the electric typing will block it! also, clicking zap cannon against that skarmory will try and use zap cannon twice against it, which has the potential to offset bad accuracy thanks to super effectiveness, improving the move heavily. but be careful, if the skarmory predicts the electric switch and clicks spikes, it'll use spikes twice and put down 2 layers against you.
Ability based immunity + item-based neutrality (berries such as chople, occa etc.) doesnt affect double or nothing, only typing- so while heatran is "immune" to flamethrower, only its typing is taken into consideration when the move is used, so flamethrower will be used against it. it will still take no damage from the flamethrower thanks to its ability, as well as activate the flash fire boost. for a mon like bronzong for instance, even though its typing might be considered to grant an immunity against ground, using spikes against it will count as a super effective typing and result in 2 layers. A move like Freeze-Dry works as follows- against a pure water type, the ice type move will be blocked and rendered useless. Against a water/ground type, it will hit due to "neutral" typing, resulting in a 4x super effective hit (hitting 4 times).

Threats and Potential Bans

These things are improved in the meta
Secondary Effects: Since super effective attacks hit twice, they'll also grant two times at landing a secondary effect. So scald has 2 30% chances. Also guaranteed secondary effects are strong, with Acid Spray hitting twice and lowering special defense by 2 with each hit. Flame charge would be able to up speed by 2x.
Hazard Control: Both spinblocking and hazard prevention are very easy in this mode. This will create an interesting choice as to whether teams choose to include hazards or not, as any steel type is capable of blocking spin, defog, rocks and tspikes at the same time.
Boosting: Mons can get a huge chance to set up in one turn and sweep in this meta. For instance a thundurus might lure in a Tyranitar only to reveal bulk up, instantly boosting to +4/+4 and sweeping. However, no longer can mons blast their way through resists with boosted z-moves anymore. Strong coverage is a must.
Obscure Coverage: Many bad moves can find some new usage here- for instance the previously mentioned Zap Cannon is an option because when super-effective will have two attempts to hit. Other moves that might be usable would be hypnosis, ice ball/rollout/fury cutter, power-up punch, sky drop, dragon tail, charm, and a bunch more.

Defensive options are really interesting because hazards and statuses like poison are much more easily blocked and there is a wide range of switchins to common mons now-but also recovery can be easily prevented. offensively you can search for a double boost in order to quickly put yourself in a winning position- but you wont be able to blast your way through resists with z-moves any more, for instance. mons with excellent STAB coverage will go far in this meta for sure, and every team is likely gunna have to rely on a heavy mixture of defence and offence to succeed, with both offensive and defensive playstyles receiving potential big buffs and nerfs. Regenerator mons are gunna be a big hit thanks to having guaranteed healing, unlike anything else- and Regenerator might get a quickban for this reason.


Additional info

moves will be repeated twice in a row if the user is capable of doing so- for instance u-turn wont be able to be repeated thanks to the user switching out after the first turn. rest wont be able to be used twice because the user becomes incapacitated by sleep after the first turn. each repetition has its own attack rolls for things like accuracy, confusion hitting, paralysis, and secondary effects. if you have a life orb, it'll amplify each hit and also cost 10% each time.

for moves like solarbeam and sky drop, the second repetition of the attack will start as soon as the first attack hits/misses/finishes. so for sky drop, you might be able to pick up an opponent over the length of 8 turns. for solarbeam, you might accidentally lock yourself into an 8-turn long string of charge moves. unless the move is a multi-turn move, all the attacks happen during the same turn- that means if the attack gets a KO, the remaining attacks will miss. this is worth considering when it comes to things like high jump kick.

Questions for the community:

Is Regenerator broken? Its the only way to guarantee healing, every single other mon can be forcefullly whittled down defensively by blocking their roosts/slack offs etc. Even poison heal gliscor can be stopped from pressing protect against many types. Things like Slowbro, Tornadus and Tangrowth may cause enormous problems with their good coverage, bulk, and guaranteed heal, plus switching and hazard control is incredibly simple in this metagame.

Any good threats or moves that come to mind? I think thisll be a fun meta for the way it develops rather than due to creating crazy sets or stats. Its gunna be very reactionary and flexible and might be a lot of fun because of that. Seeing the relationship between stall and offence teams is gunna be super interesting for sure.
First off, this sounds really fun! On the subject of Regenerator, I would say that its definitely worth considering a ban, as defensive cores that cover each other's weaknesses already sound like enough of a pain here. The thing that would balance out stall in this meta is definitely having a Poison type, as both Leech Seed and Toxic Spikes will fail versus them. On that note, I'm going to list a few possible fun mons:
Nihlego: It blocks most forms of recovery, as well as Toxic Spikes, while also being able to deal big damage to opponents. Could run Grass Knot or Hidden Power for Ground types.
Togedemaru: Weak to 3 types, Resistant and Immune to 12, has Wish, Spiky Shield and two momentum options. Struggles heavily with doing anything to Ground types, as always.
Steelix: Sets hazards while also blocking all possible hazards (other than Spikes) by the opponent, as well as their recovery. 10 types failing versus it with that bulk is amazing.
Maybe I'll think of more at some other point
 
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First off, this sounds really fun! On the subject of Regenerator, I would say that its definitely worth considering a ban, as defensive cores that cover each other's weaknesses already sound like enough of a pain here. The thing that would balance out stall in this meta is definitely having a Poison type, as both Leech Seed and Toxic Spikes will fail versus them. On that note, I'm going to list a few possible fun mons:
Nihlego: It blocks most forms of recovery, as well as Leech Seed, Toxic Spikes and Spikes, while also being able to deal big damage to opponents. Could run Grass Knot or Hidden Power for Ground types.
Togedemaru: Weak to 3 types, Resistant and Immune to 12, has Wish, Spiky Shield and two momentum options. Struggles heavily with doing anything to Ground types, as always.
Steelix: Sets hazards while also blocking all possible hazards by the opponent, as well as their recovery. 10 types failing versus it with that bulk is amazing.
Maybe I'll think of more at some other point
Nihilego is neutral for Grass and Ground, so it does not block seed or spikes. In the same vein, Steelix doesn't block Spikes at all. In fact, opponents get 2 layers of spikes vs Steelix.
 
Trickster Tower

Premise:
Trick Room is permanently on the field during battle. Trick Room fails in battle.

Potential Bans and Threats:
Mega Mawile should at least be suspected, as it has a lot of power and is only held back by speed, which is no longer an issue. Magearna is amazing in this metagame, as it can run OTR without Trick Room, letting it cause even more havoc. Bulkier Pokémon are a lot better in this metagame, such as Ferrothorn. They now have potential to run more offensively inclined sets if they wanted to, as they will be treated as extremely fast Pokémon in this metagame. Likewise, fast attackers like Mega Medicham, Greninja, and Shift Gearna are not as good as before, as they are now slow and do not have the bulk to sustain hits.

Unbans: Pheromosa, Landorus, Darkrai (All of these are usually speedy Pokémon who despise Trick Room. Another thing is that none of these things are anywhere near bulky, leaving them open to be knocked out before being able to attack.)

Please give thoughts!
 
First off, this sounds really fun! On the subject of Regenerator, I would say that its definitely worth considering a ban, as defensive cores that cover each other's weaknesses already sound like enough of a pain here. The thing that would balance out stall in this meta is definitely having a Poison type, as both Leech Seed and Toxic Spikes will fail versus them. On that note, I'm going to list a few possible fun mons:
Nihlego: It blocks most forms of recovery, as well as Leech Seed, Toxic Spikes and Spikes, while also being able to deal big damage to opponents. Could run Grass Knot or Hidden Power for Ground types.
Togedemaru: Weak to 3 types, Resistant and Immune to 12, has Wish, Spiky Shield and two momentum options. Struggles heavily with doing anything to Ground types, as always.
Steelix: Sets hazards while also blocking all possible hazards by the opponent, as well as their recovery. 10 types failing versus it with that bulk is amazing.
Maybe I'll think of more at some other point
Last time I checked Steelix and Nihilego are both weak to ground so they don't block spikes at all, they in fact let the opponent set up 2 and 3 layers respectively.

Edit: was sniped by Yahooboo but he said Nihilego was neutral to ground

Edit 2: more stuff posted while I was typing but I didn't want to double post
Trickster Tower

Premise:
Trick Room is permanently on the field during battle. Trick Room fails in battle.

Potential Bans and Threats:
Mega Mawile should at least be suspected, as it has a lot of power and is only held back by speed, which is no longer an issue. Magearna is amazing in this metagame, as it can run OTR without Trick Room, letting it cause even more havoc. Bulkier Pokémon are a lot better in this metagame, such as Ferrothorn. They now have potential to run more offensively inclined sets if they wanted to, as they will be treated as extremely fast Pokémon in this metagame. Likewise, fast attackers like Mega Medicham, Greninja, and Shift Gearna are not as good as before, as they are now slow and do not have the bulk to sustain hits.

Unbans: Pheromosa, Landorus, Darkrai (All of these are usually speedy Pokémon who despise Trick Room. Another thing is that none of these things are anywhere near bulky, leaving them open to be knocked out before being able to attack.)

Please give thoughts!
Imo I think you should allow trick room to be used, but instead it's effect returns the field to normal for 5 turns then it goes back to reverse after the turns are up. This way it doesn't remove a strategy for what I see as no particular reason.

Other unbans to consider:
Deoxys-speed - it's just a REALLY slow and not particularly bulky support mon now, but decent movepool.
Shaymin-sky - basically not that good any more (is this thing even ubers this gen? Idek any more)

Curse would be an amazing move in this meta and I can see curselax being a big (literally) threat with its good bulk and already slow speed.
If Mega camerupt is gonna shine in any meta, surely it's this one.
 
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Eve

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Nihilego is neutral for Grass and Ground, so it does not block seed or spikes. In the same vein, Steelix doesn't block Spikes at all. In fact, opponents get 2 layers of spikes vs Steelix.
whoops, I had it in my head that Spikes was Normal type. Now I feel like a bit of an idiot. Also, yeah, forgot about the Rock type making Grass neutral. Was just looking for an offensive poison type tbh.
 
whoops, I had it in my head that Spikes was Normal type. Now I feel like a bit of an idiot. Also, yeah, forgot about the Rock type making Grass neutral. Was just looking for an offensive poison type tbh.
To be fair, Spike Cannon is normal.
edit: Willdbeast no idea why I said nihi was neutral to ground, I think I thought Rock resisted for a sec. Oh, and Shaymin-Sky actually moved up in Ubers Viability recently due to the rise of Arceus Ground and, to some extent, Rock. It's actually in B- now. Not bad for a 600 BST mon with horrible typing.
 
Hello, its me again. im back but this time with a new unique metagame idea! I think

Forme change
Metagame premise:
Forme change is an OU based metagame where a pokes stats and typings change based off the forme change its named after (that includes in battle form changes such as rotom/meloetta/minior and therian forme changes)

Examples:

Exeggutor-alola (Mantine)

85/50/70/80/140/60
+10 Atk | -10 speed | +
typing

So mantine gains dragon typing while getting access to the abilities frisk and harvest, and gets some stat changes. Has an interesting defensive typing


Ninetails-alola (Mew)

100/100/91/100/100/109
-9 Def | +9 Spe | +
typing

Mew similarly gets snow warning so it can utilize aurora veil, gains ice typing, gains speed and loses defence. Becomes a very versatile veil setter


Meloetta-pirouette (Tapu Bulu)

70/185/148/30/40/108
+55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +
typing

Tapu bulu becomes broken with all these stat changes, gets 185 atk with stab super power. Also gets serene grace now instead of grassy terrain

Dugtrio-alola:
Abilities: Sand Veil/Tangling Hair/Sand Force
Stat changes: +10 Def | -10 Spe | +
typing

Exeggutor-alola:
Abilities: Frisk/Harvest
Stat changes: +10 Atk | - 10 Spe | +
typing

Golem-alola:
Abilities: Magnet Pull/Sturdy/Galvanize
Stat changes: +
typing

Marowak-alola:
Abilities: Cursed body/Lightning Rod/Rock Head
Stat changes: +
typing

Muk-alola:
Abilities: Poison Touch/Gluttony/Power of Alchemy
Stat Changes: +
typing

Ninetails-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Snow Warning
Stat changes: -9 Def | +9 Spe | +
typing

Persian-alola:
Abilities: Fur Coat/Technician/Rattled
Stat Changes: -10 Atk | +10 Spa | +
as primary typing

Raichu-alola:
Abilities: Surge Surfer
Stat changes: -5 Atk | -5 Def | +5 Spa | +5 Spd | +
typing

Raticate-alola:
Abilities: Gluttony/Hustle/Thick Fat
Stat changes: +20 HP | -10 Atk | +10 Def | -10 Spa | + Spd | -20 Spe | +
typing

Sandslash-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Slush Rush
Stat Changes: +10 Def | -20 Spa | +10 Spd | +
typing

Darmanitan-Zen:
Ability: Zen Mode
Stat changes: -110 Atk | +50 Def | +110 Spa | +50 Spa | -40 Spe | +
typing

Hoopa-Unbound:
Ability: Magician
Stat changes: +50 Atk | +20 Spa | +10 Spe | +
typing

Lycanrock-Midnight
Ability: Keen Eye/Vital Spirit/No Guard
Stat changes: +10 Hp | +10 Def | +10 Spd | -30 Spe

Oricoro-Pa'u:
Ability: Dancer
Stat changes: +
as primary typing

Oricoro-Pom-Pom:
Ability: Dancer
Stat changes +
as primary typing

Oricoro-Sensu:
Ability: Dancer
Stat changes: +
as primary typing

Meloetta-Pirouette:
Ability: Serene Grace
Stat changes: +55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +
typing

Minior-Meteor:
Ability: Shields Down
Stat changes: -40 Atk | +40 Def | -40 Spa | +40 Spd | -60 Spe

Wormadam-Sandy
Ability: Anticipation/Overcoat
Stat changes: +20 Atk | +20 Def | -20 Spa | -20 Spd | +
typing

Wormadam-Trash
Ability: Anticipation/Overcoat
Stat changes: +10 Atk | +10 Def | -10 Spa | -10 Spd | +
typing

Zygarde-10%
Ability: Aura Break/Power Construct
Stat changes: -54 Hp | -50 Def | -20 Spa | -10 Spd | +20 Spe

Theres also the million gourgeist formes, but i dont really care about them atm

All Rotom stat changes: +10 Atk | +30 Def | +10 Spa | +30 Spd | -5 Spe | + Levitate

Rotom-Fan: +
typing
Rotom-Frost: +
typing
Rotom-Heat: +
typing
Rotom-Mow: +
typing
Rotom-Wash: +
typing

Landorus-Therian:
Ability: Intimidate
Stat changes: +20 Atk | -10 Spa | -10 Spe

Thundurus-Therian:
Ability: Volt Absorb
Stat changes: -10 Atk | + 20 Spa | -10 Spe

Tornadus-Therian
Ability: Regenerator
Stat changes: -10 Atk | -10 Spa | +10 Spd | + 10 Spe

Aegislash-Blade:
Ability: Stance Change
Stat changes: +100 Atk | -100 Def | +100 Spa | -100 Spd

Deoxys-Attack:
Ability: Pressure
Stat changes: +30 Atk | -30 Def | +30 Spa | -30 Spd

Deoxys-Defense:
Ability: Pressure
Stat changes: -80 Atk | +110 Def | -80 Spa | +110 Spd | -60 Spe

Deoxys-Speed
Ability: Pressure
Stat changes: -55 Atk | +40 Def | -55 Spa | +40 Spd | +30 Spe

Giratina-Origin
Ability: Levitate
Stat changes: +20 Atk | -20 Def | +20 Spa | -20 Spd

Kyurem-Black
Ability: Teravolt
Stat changes: +40 Atk | +10 Def | -10 Spa

Kyurem-White
Ability: Turboblaze
Stat changes: -10 Atk | +40 Spa | +10 Spd

Shaymin-Sky
Ability: Serene Grace
Stat changes: +3 Atk | -25 Def | +20 Spa | -25 Spd | +27 Spe

Zygarde-Complete
Ability: Power Construct
Stat changes: +108 Hp | +10 Spa | -10 Spe


Potential bans and threats:

Banlist:
  • One form change clause, no full regenerator tornadus-therian for you
  • Pokemon that already changed formes cannot change form again or mega evolve [u cant have a muk-alola (mawile-mega) or hoopa-unbound (ash greninja)]
  • OU clauses + kartana, kyurem, regigigas and slaking.

Meloetta-pirouette (Kartana)
Gets 59/231/164/4/0/142 offenses plus stab sacred sword, yea no thanks


Golem-Alola (Kyurem-Black)
Gets dragon electric typing plus galvanize/magnet pull, uh no

Aegislash-Blade:
Ability: Stance Change
Stat changes: +100 Atk | -100 Def | +100 Spa | -100 Spd

Gives too much dumb offenses

Darmanitan-Zen:
Ability: Zen Mode
Stat changes: -110 Atk | +50 Def | +110 Spa | +50 Spa | -40 Spe | +
typing

Zen mode gives the best of both worlds and gives pokes both a big boost an defense and a huge boost in spatk and makes it the perfect trick room sweeper, breaks too many pokemon imo

Deoxys-Defense:
Ability: Pressure
Stat changes: -80 Atk | +110 Def | -80 Spa | +110 Spd | -60 Spe

Gives too much dumb defenses + pressure

Zygarde-Complete
Ability: Power Construct
Stat changes: +108 Hp | +10 Spa | -10 Spe

108 hp is just a bit too much, makes any defensive poke already unbeatable with the huge boost


Questions for the community:
  • Did i miss any forme changes?
  • What are some potential bans/unbans u think there is?
  • Does this metagame sound fun? Does it look balanced?
Thanks for reading, and let me know your opinions on it!

Edited: added missing forme changes, and a few mons into the banlist and added a banned forme changes list
 
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Trickster Tower

Premise:
Trick Room is permanently on the field during battle. Trick Room fails in battle.

Potential Bans and Threats:
Mega Mawile should at least be suspected, as it has a lot of power and is only held back by speed, which is no longer an issue. Magearna is amazing in this metagame, as it can run OTR without Trick Room, letting it cause even more havoc. Bulkier Pokémon are a lot better in this metagame, such as Ferrothorn. They now have potential to run more offensively inclined sets if they wanted to, as they will be treated as extremely fast Pokémon in this metagame. Likewise, fast attackers like Mega Medicham, Greninja, and Shift Gearna are not as good as before, as they are now slow and do not have the bulk to sustain hits.

Unbans: Pheromosa, Landorus, Darkrai (All of these are usually speedy Pokémon who despise Trick Room. Another thing is that none of these things are anywhere near bulky, leaving them open to be knocked out before being able to attack.)

Please give thoughts!
I have a few issues with this.
First off, this would ruin some Mons, and buff others too much. Things like mega-camerupt and shiinotic become viable, which is interesting. But on the other hand, you have mons like mage and m-maw and the likes becoming too much. What would be a unique idea to shut these down instead of out right banning them is to have TR work like an on/off switch. you could either...
1. every 5 trns, it switches from TR to non TR
or
2. its on by default, but it works as an on/off switch, where every mon has access to TR and using the move either switches it on or off. building on that idea, terrain extender would also extend any trick rooms set up by that user.
 
I have a few issues with this.
First off, this would ruin some Mons, and buff others too much. Things like mega-camerupt and shiinotic become viable, which is interesting. But on the other hand, you have mons like mage and m-maw and the likes becoming too much. What would be a unique idea to shut these down instead of out right banning them is to have TR work like an on/off switch. you could either...
1. every 5 trns, it switches from TR to non TR
or
2. its on by default, but it works as an on/off switch, where every mon has access to TR and using the move either switches it on or off. building on that idea, terrain extender would also extend any trick rooms set up by that user.
I think I would go with the second option, but still ban M-maw and Magearna. However, this does raise the question about what to do with Phero, Lando, and Darkai. Should I ban them? Also, the Terrain Extender thing is going. My idea is that it is permanently in Trick Room unless the move is used. If it is used, things go back to normal. If used again, permanent Trick room once more.
 
Hello, its me again. im back but this time with a new unique metagame idea! I think

Forme change
Metagame premise:
Forme change is an OU based metagame where a pokes stats and typings change based off the forme change its named after (that includes in battle form changes such as rotom/meloetta/minior and therian forme changes) or based off the megastone its holding

Examples:

Exeggutor-alola (Mantine)

85/50/70/80/140/60
+10 Atk | -10 speed | +
typing

So mantine gains dragon typing while getting access to the abilities frisk and harvest, and gets some stat changes. Has an interesting defensive typing


Ninetails-alola (Mew)

100/100/91/100/100/109
-9 Def | +9 Spe | +
typing

Mew similarly gets snow warning so it can utilize aurora veil, gains ice typing, gains speed and loses defence. Becomes a very versatile veil setter


Meloetta-pirouette (Tapu Bulu)

70/185/148/30/40/108
+55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +
typing

Tapu bulu becomes broken with all these stat changes, gets 185 atk with stab super power. Also gets serene grace now instead of grassy terrain

Dugtrio-alola:
Abilities: Sand Veil/Tangling Hair/Sand Force
Stat changes: +10 Def | -10 Spe | +
typing

Exeggutor-alola:
Abilities: Frisk/Harvest
Stat changes: +10 Atk | - 10 Spe | +
typing

Golem-alola:
Abilities: Magnet Pull/Sturdy/Galvanize
Stat changes: +
typing

Marowak-alola:
Abilities: Cursed body/Lightning Rod/Rock Head
Stat changes: +
typing

Muk-alola:
Abilities: Poison Touch/Gluttony/Power of Alchemy
Stat Changes: +
typing

Ninetails-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Snow Warning
Stat changes: -9 Def | +9 Spe | +
typing

Persian-alola:
Abilities: Fur Coat/Technician/Rattled
Stat Changes: -10 Atk | +10 Spa | +
as primary typing

Raichu-alola:
Abilities: Surge Surfer
Stat changes: -5 Atk | -5 Def | +5 Spa | +5 Spd | +
typing

Raticate-alola:
Abilities: Gluttony/Hustle/Thick Fat
Stat changes: +20 HP | -10 Atk | +10 Def | -10 Spa | + Spd | -20 Spe | +
as primary typing

Sandslash-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Slush Rush
Stat Changes: +10 Def | -20 Spa | +10 Spd | +
typing

All Rotom stat changes: +10 Atk | +30 Def | +10 Spa | +30 Spd | -5 Spe | + Levitate

Rotom-Fan: +
typing
Rotom-Frost: +
typing
Rotom-Heat: +
typing
Rotom-Mow: +
typing
Rotom-Wash: +
typing

Landorus-Therian:
Ability: Intimidate
Stat changes: +20 Atk | -10 Spa | -10 Spe

Thundurus-Therian:
Ability: Volt Absorb
Stat changes: -10 Atk | + 20 Spa | -10 Spe

Tornadus-Therian
Ability: Regenerator
Stat changes: -10 Atk | -10 Spa | +10 Spd | + 10 Spe

Meloetta-Pirouette:
Ability: Serene Grace
Stat changes: +55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +
typing

Minior-Meteor:
Ability: Shields Down
Stat changes: -40 Atk | +40 Def | -40 Spa | +40 Spd | -60 Spe

Darmanitan-Zen:
Ability: Zen Mode
Stat changes: -110 Atk | +50 Def | +110 Spa | +50 Spa | -40 Spe | +
typing

Hoopa-Unbound:
Ability: Magician
Stat changes: +50 Atk | +20 Spa | +10 Spe | +
typing

Oricoro-Pa'u: + Dancer | +
as primary typing

Oricoro-Pom-Pom: + Dancer | +
as primary typing

Oricoro-Sensu: + Dancer | +
as primary typing

The million gourgeist formes, which i dont really care about

not to be lazy but, you can all check the mix and mega available stones to see whats available


Potential bans and threats:

Banlist:
  • One form change clause, no full regenerator tornadus-therian for you
  • Only one mega per team if i havent pointed it out, no this isnt mix and mega
  • OU clauses + kartana, kyurem(for now).
  • Uber stones and a select few are banned

Meloetta-pirouette (Kartana)
Gets 59/231/164/4/0/142 offenses plus stab sacred sword, yea no thanks


Golem-Alola (Kyurem-Black)
Gets dragon electric typing plus galvanize/magnet pull, uh no

  • Mawilite
  • Beedrilite
  • Medichamite
  • All uber mega stones

Darmanitan-zen and meloetta-pirouette forme are potential quickbans for giving too much overwhelming offenses

Questions for the community:
  • Should form changes from ubers be allowed? (Aegislash-blade/Shaymin-sky/Giratina-Origin)
  • Should i even allow mega stones on non-native users?
  • Did i miss any forme changes?
  • What are some potential bans/unbans u think there is?
  • Does this metagame sound fun? Does it look balanced?
Thanks for reading, and let me know your opinions on it!
Would you get the moves associated with forme changes such as relic song or the rotom moves? Additionally, mew does not have access to aurora veil so would you have access to that forme's movesetas well?
 
Would you get the moves associated with forme changes such as relic song or the rotom moves?
Nope, this is similar to mix and mega in the sense you get access to the mega's new type and stat changes, but dont get access to their moves

Additionally, mew does not have access to aurora veil so would you have access to that forme's movesetas well?
Mew actually does learn aurora veil naturally, so it could use snow warning + aurora veil without needing access to ninetails-alola's moveset
 
  • Should form changes from ubers be allowed? (Aegislash-blade/Shaymin-sky/Giratina-Origin)
  • Should i even allow mega stones on non-native users?
  • Did i miss any forme changes?
  • What are some potential bans/unbans u think there is?
  • Does this metagame sound fun? Does it look balanced?
  • Allow them, but Aegislash forms I think should be excluded.
  • No I do not think Mega Stones should be alowed. Even with alowing only one Mega stone, it starts to make this meta feel like Mix N Mega Plus.
  • Deoxys, Wormadam, Darmanitan, Therian Formes, Kyurem Formes, and Lycanroc
 
Last edited:
Forme change
Removed most of post because it lags my computer. So many GIFs, man.

Instead of just adding massive stats for Meloetta-Pirouette and Darmanitan-Zen, you could just make it so equivalent stats swap.
So if we go by Fusion Evolution rules:
Darmanitan-Zen swaps the Pokemon's base Attack and Special Attack.
Meloetta-Pirouette does a swap like this:
Original Form: A/B/C/D/E/F
Pirouette Form: A/D/F/B/C/E
Anyway, threats.

Ninjask stand out as a really fast attacker with stuff like Hoopa-Unbound attached. It still has a bad movepool, but 140 Attack and 150 Speed bases? Sign me up.

Mantine would rather use Thundurus-Therian instead of Exeg-Alola IMO. Volt Absorb and a good special attack boost at the cost of a little speed.
 

earl

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On Forme change, I don't really see how Giratina-Origin would be anything broken. It's just +20 to offenses at the cost of -20 to defenses and the addition of the ability levitate. I'd be fine seeing it there
 

Eve

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Hello, its me again. im back but this time with a new unique metagame idea! I think

Forme change
Metagame premise:
Forme change is an OU based metagame where a pokes stats and typings change based off the forme change its named after (that includes in battle form changes such as rotom/meloetta/minior and therian forme changes) or based off the megastone its holding

Examples:

Exeggutor-alola (Mantine)

85/50/70/80/140/60
+10 Atk | -10 speed | +
typing

So mantine gains dragon typing while getting access to the abilities frisk and harvest, and gets some stat changes. Has an interesting defensive typing


Ninetails-alola (Mew)

100/100/91/100/100/109
-9 Def | +9 Spe | +
typing

Mew similarly gets snow warning so it can utilize aurora veil, gains ice typing, gains speed and loses defence. Becomes a very versatile veil setter


Meloetta-pirouette (Tapu Bulu)

70/185/148/30/40/108
+55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +
typing

Tapu bulu becomes broken with all these stat changes, gets 185 atk with stab super power. Also gets serene grace now instead of grassy terrain

Dugtrio-alola:
Abilities: Sand Veil/Tangling Hair/Sand Force
Stat changes: +10 Def | -10 Spe | +
typing

Exeggutor-alola:
Abilities: Frisk/Harvest
Stat changes: +10 Atk | - 10 Spe | +
typing

Golem-alola:
Abilities: Magnet Pull/Sturdy/Galvanize
Stat changes: +
typing

Marowak-alola:
Abilities: Cursed body/Lightning Rod/Rock Head
Stat changes: +
typing

Muk-alola:
Abilities: Poison Touch/Gluttony/Power of Alchemy
Stat Changes: +
typing

Ninetails-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Snow Warning
Stat changes: -9 Def | +9 Spe | +
typing

Persian-alola:
Abilities: Fur Coat/Technician/Rattled
Stat Changes: -10 Atk | +10 Spa | +
as primary typing

Raichu-alola:
Abilities: Surge Surfer
Stat changes: -5 Atk | -5 Def | +5 Spa | +5 Spd | +
typing

Raticate-alola:
Abilities: Gluttony/Hustle/Thick Fat
Stat changes: +20 HP | -10 Atk | +10 Def | -10 Spa | + Spd | -20 Spe | +
as primary typing

Sandslash-alola:
Abilities: Snow Cloak/Slush Rush
Stat Changes: +10 Def | -20 Spa | +10 Spd | +
typing

All Rotom stat changes: +10 Atk | +30 Def | +10 Spa | +30 Spd | -5 Spe | + Levitate

Rotom-Fan: +
typing
Rotom-Frost: +
typing
Rotom-Heat: +
typing
Rotom-Mow: +
typing
Rotom-Wash: +
typing

Landorus-Therian:
Ability: Intimidate
Stat changes: +20 Atk | -10 Spa | -10 Spe

Thundurus-Therian:
Ability: Volt Absorb
Stat changes: -10 Atk | + 20 Spa | -10 Spe

Tornadus-Therian
Ability: Regenerator
Stat changes: -10 Atk | -10 Spa | +10 Spd | + 10 Spe

Meloetta-Pirouette:
Ability: Serene Grace
Stat changes: +55 Atk | +33 Def | -55 Spa | -55 Spa | +33 Spe | +
typing

Minior-Meteor:
Ability: Shields Down
Stat changes: -40 Atk | +40 Def | -40 Spa | +40 Spd | -60 Spe

Darmanitan-Zen:
Ability: Zen Mode
Stat changes: -110 Atk | +50 Def | +110 Spa | +50 Spa | -40 Spe | +
typing

Hoopa-Unbound:
Ability: Magician
Stat changes: +50 Atk | +20 Spa | +10 Spe | +
typing

Oricoro-Pa'u: + Dancer | +
as primary typing

Oricoro-Pom-Pom: + Dancer | +
as primary typing

Oricoro-Sensu: + Dancer | +
as primary typing

The million gourgeist formes, which i dont really care about

not to be lazy but, you can all check the mix and mega available stones to see whats available


Potential bans and threats:

Banlist:
  • One form change clause, no full regenerator tornadus-therian for you
  • Only one mega per team if i havent pointed it out, no this isnt mix and mega
  • OU clauses + kartana, kyurem(for now).
  • Uber stones and a select few are banned

Meloetta-pirouette (Kartana)
Gets 59/231/164/4/0/142 offenses plus stab sacred sword, yea no thanks


Golem-Alola (Kyurem-Black)
Gets dragon electric typing plus galvanize/magnet pull, uh no

  • Mawilite
  • Beedrilite
  • Medichamite
  • All uber mega stones

Darmanitan-zen and meloetta-pirouette forme are potential quickbans for giving too much overwhelming offenses

Questions for the community:
  • Should form changes from ubers be allowed? (Aegislash-blade/Shaymin-sky/Giratina-Origin)
  • Should i even allow mega stones on non-native users?
  • Did i miss any forme changes?
  • What are some potential bans/unbans u think there is?
  • Does this metagame sound fun? Does it look balanced?
Thanks for reading, and let me know your opinions on it!
For the questions:
  • Yeah, I also think that the Ubers form changes (other than Aegislash-Blade, that would be dumb) would be balanced in this meta.
  • No, I think the forms shouldn't have to hold a signature item to be achieved. Now I think about it, that should exclude Giratina-Origin too, which I doubt anyone would mind.
  • On the subject of Forme Changes, would Zygarde 10% count as an alternate form of Zygarde 50%? If Shaymin-Sky does, I don't see why it couldn't. I doubt it would even be that good a pick. Also, Deoxys formes? They interchange in a similar way to other mons here, so it would make sense. (Maybe ban Defense tho, the stat changes could lead to broken stuff). Kyurem formes could be worth considering, as they honestly don't add too much.
  • Can't think of too many bans other than the ones I've mentioned.
  • This metagame sounds super fun! Plenty of variety, and these nickname OMs are always fun as it makes your sets so much more unpredictable from the get go.

Other things:
  • Some stat drops might lead to mons having stats at 0 or less. I reckon solutions could be either to set that stat to 1 (I don't like this idea) or to simply disallow any form change that gives a mon a stat of 0 or less (I think this would be a better and more balanced solution).
  • Please never EVER consider Wishiwashi-School as a form change. That would only end badly.
  • What happens if a mon that changes form has the nickname? Say Greninja comes in with some kind of Nickname stat change (aka Hoopa-Unbound) and transforms into Ash Greninja. Does it still gain the stat boosts, or are they reset? I assume they would continue.
  • On the subject of those Nickname changes, it seems odd that the Abilities are the only thing to ignore whether the past form had them. A pokemon here only passes on a Type if its new to the form, so why is this different for Abilities? Aka Hoopa-Unbound passing on Magician when Confined has it. Not complaining seeing as it adds more possibilities, just seems slightly odd.
  • Shame about the Pirouette form change being pretty broken, would be cool just to run Meloetta with it and start off instantly as Pirouette all the time lel
That's all I've got for now
 
Thanks for all the constructive criticism

So now i decided i will scrap the mega idea and ive added the missing formes

Ill allow giratina not via holding the orb but by nickname, i dont see the harm as the stat changes it gives are not that much. aegislash gives dumb stats so its gonna get banned, Same goes with deoxys defense as it will give any poke the ability to pressure stall easily

Aegislash-Blade:
Ability: Stance Change
Stat changes: +100 Atk | -100 Def | +100 Spa | -100 Spd

Deoxys-Attack:
Ability: Pressure
Stat changes: +30 Atk | -30 Def | +30 Spa | -30 Spd

Deoxys-Defense:
Ability: Pressure
Stat changes: -80 Atk | +110 Def | -80 Spa | +110 Spd | -60 Spe

Deoxys-Speed
Ability: Pressure
Stat changes: -55 Atk | +40 Def | -55 Spa | +40 Spd | +30 Spe

Giratina-Origin
Ability: Levitate
Stat changes: +20 Atk | -20 Def | +20 Spa | -20 Spd

Kyurem-Black
Ability: Teravolt
Stat changes: +40 Atk | +10 Def | -10 Spa

Kyurem-White
Ability: Turboblaze
Stat changes: -10 Atk | +40 Spa | +10 Spd

Shaymin-Sky
Ability: Serene Grace
Stat changes: +3 Atk | -25 Def | +20 Spa | -25 Spd | +27 Spe

Zygarde-Complete
Ability: Power Construct
Stat changes: +108 Hp | +10 Spa | -10 Spe

Lycanrock-Midnight
Ability: Keen Eye/Vital Spirit/No Guard
Stat changes: +10 Hp | +10 Def | +10 Spd | -30 Spe

Wormadam-Sandy
Ability: Anticipation/Overcoat
Stat changes: +20 Atk | +20 Def | -20 Spa | -20 Spd | +
typing

Wormadam-Trash
Ability: Anticipation/Overcoat
Stat changes: +10 Atk | +10 Def | -10 Spa | -10 Spd | +
typing

Zygarde-10%
Ability: Aura Break/Power Construct
Stat changes: -54 Hp | -50 Def | -20 Spa | -10 Spd | +20 Spe

For the questions:
Other things:
  • Some stat drops might lead to mons having stats at 0 or less. I reckon solutions could be either to set that stat to 1 (I don't like this idea) or to simply disallow any form change that gives a mon a stat of 0 or less (I think this would be a better and more balanced solution).
Honestly im not sure how to handle this, what would other oms do in a situation like this?
  • What happens if a mon that changes form has the nickname? Say Greninja comes in with some kind of Nickname stat change (aka Hoopa-Unbound) and transforms into Ash Greninja. Does it still gain the stat boosts, or are they reset? I assume they would continue.
Pokemon that can change or have already changed form are not allowed to change formes again. So hoopa-unbound cannot change into a damanitan-zen for example, same thing goes for going mega, a muk-alola (mawile) cannot mega evolve into mega mawile
 
Last edited:

anaconja

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Chansey looks scary with some forme changes:

Deoxys-Speed: 250/1/45/1/145/85
Rotom-Heat: 250/15/35/45/135/45
Darmanitan-Zen: 250/1/55/145/155/10
Minior-Meteor: 250/1/45/1/145/1
(note: these are all with eviolite too)

Some other ideas:
Hoopa-Unbound(Ninjask): 61/140/45/70/50/170, Bug/Dark, Magician
Meloetta-Pirouette(Staraptor): 85/175/103/1/5/133, Normal/Fighting, Serene Grace

Darmanitan-Zen should probably be banned, anyone with a normally average Special Attack and a Psychic-type special attack dominates in Trick Room.

Darmanitan-Zen(Landorus-Therian): 89/35/140/215/130/51, Ground/Psychic, Zen Mode
Darmanitan-Zen(Kyurem-Black):125/60/150/230/140/55, Dragon/Psychic, Zen Mode
Darmanitan-Zen(Metagross): 80/25/180/205/140/30, Steel/Psychic, Zen Mode


Rotom-Heat(Skarmory): 65/90/170/50/100/65, Steel/Fire, Levitate
Rotom-Wash(Zapdos): 90/100/115/135/120/95, Electric/Water, Levitate
Thundurus-Therian(Celesteela): 97/91/103/127/101/51, Steel/Flying, Volt Absorb
Tornadus-Therian(Magearna: 80/85/115/120/125/75, Steel/Fairy, Regenerator


Oh yeah and here are the Gourgeist forms
Gourgeist-Small: -10 HP/ -5 Atk / +15 Speed
Gourgiest-Large: +10 HP/ +5 Atk/ -15 Speed
Gourgeist-Super: +20 HP/ +10 Atk/ -30 Speed

I don't see a use for these; Meloetta-P sounds much better, but this could work as a bulky physical attacker? idk
 
Some ideas:

Hoopa-Unbound (Gyarados): Water/Dark with 95/175/97/80/100/91 - practically a Mega Gyarados with higher attack and speed, but a bit less bulky.

Darmanitan-Zen (Cresselia): Psychic with 120/1/170/185/180/45 - god damn bulky, but also hitting very hard.

Tornadus-Therian (Zapdos): Electric/Flying with 90/80/85/115/100/110, Regenerator and STAB Volt Switch along with nice bulk. May be used with or without AV (for defog/roost).
 
Chansey looks scary with some forme changes:

Deoxys-Speed: 250/1/45/1/145/85
Rotom-Heat: 250/15/35/45/135/45
Darmanitan-Zen: 250/1/55/145/155/10
Minior-Meteor: 250/1/45/1/145/1
(note: these are all with eviolite too)

Some other ideas:
Hoopa-Unbound(Ninjask): 61/140/45/70/50/170, Bug/Dark, Magician
Meloetta-Pirouette(Staraptor): 85/175/103/1/5/133, Normal/Fighting, Serene Grace

Darmanitan-Zen should probably be banned, anyone with a normally average Special Attack and a Psychic-type special attack dominates in Trick Room.

Darmanitan-Zen(Landorus-Therian): 89/35/140/215/130/51, Ground/Psychic, Zen Mode
Darmanitan-Zen(Kyurem-Black):125/60/150/230/140/55, Dragon/Psychic, Zen Mode
Darmanitan-Zen(Metagross): 80/25/180/205/140/30, Steel/Psychic, Zen Mode


Rotom-Heat(Skarmory): 65/90/170/50/100/65, Steel/Fire, Levitate
Rotom-Wash(Zapdos): 90/100/115/135/120/95, Electric/Water, Levitate
Thundurus-Therian(Celesteela): 97/91/103/127/101/51, Steel/Flying, Volt Absorb
Tornadus-Therian(Magearna: 80/85/115/120/125/75, Steel/Fairy, Regenerator


Oh yeah and here are the Gourgeist forms
Gourgeist-Small: -10 HP/ -5 Atk / +15 Speed
Gourgiest-Large: +10 HP/ +5 Atk/ -15 Speed
Gourgeist-Super: +20 HP/ +10 Atk/ -30 Speed

I don't see a use for these; Meloetta-P sounds much better, but this could work as a bulky physical attacker? idk
You cant give landorus-therian a forme change as they are already in another forme, and kyurem is banned, like your ideas though

And yea i agree with what u said, darmanitan sounds broken on almost on any poke tbh


So honestly thinking about it again and seeing some of the examples above, i decided darmanitan-zen mode should also be banned
Giving basically ever defensive poke +110 spatk and +50 defenses in each, is amazing, no defensive poke minds the spe drop anyways. it just gives too much spa and It makes every wall less passive and more like aegislash with both amazing defenses and offenses increasing the overall power creep

And its not limited to defensive pokes too, any poke with even 50 spatk + zen forme can be a fearsome sweeper under trick room


As for potential good mons, here are some new mons that i think might be good
Dugtrio-alola (Gourgeist-Super) : Ghost/Steel
85/100/132/58/75/44

This thing gets so good, counters most fairies, most -pirouette users, and the best thing is that it has willowisp and reliable recovery

Wormadam-Trash (Buzzwole): Bug/Steel
107/149/149/43/43/79

Buzzwole has a much better defensive typing, and also gets slightly higher attack/defense

Tornadus-Therian (Metagross)
80/125/130/85/100/80

Becomes an interesting av pivot similar to magearna.

Shaymin-Sky (Togekiss): Fairy/Flying
85/53/70/140/90/107

Togekiss becomes better with a higher special attack and speed tier, while still keeping serene flinch

Raichu-alola (Primarina): Water/Psychic
80/69/69/131/121/60

Pair this up with tapu koko and sweep, also gets a stab psychic to hit venusaur and toxapex, neat

theres so many possibilites, fire grass volcorana, volt absorb mantine, unbound gyarados
 
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