Metagross (QC 2/3)

Status
Not open for further replies.
[OVERVIEW]

Mega Metagross has a good Steel / Psychic defensive typing which gives it key resistances to Dragon, Fairy, and Flying, allowing it to check common threats such as Mega Salamence, Xerneas, and Arceus-Fairy, and its solid bulk aids it in checking these threats. Its good Attack and Speed stats, combined with Tough Claws, which gives Mega Metagross a 1.3x boost to all of its contact moves, makes it offensively threatening as well, especially in conjunction with its wide movepool consisting of coverage options such as Thunder Punch, Ice Punch, and Earthquake. Bullet Punch is a great priority move that is able to pick off boosted Xerneas and Deoxys-A as well. However, Steel is a bad offensive typing in Ubers because of the prevalence of Pokemon such as Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, and Primal Kyogre, which resist its main STAB attack. While its typing does give Mega Metagross a few good resistances, said typing leaves Mega Metagross open to common Ghost- and Ground-types such as Mega Gengar and Arceus-Ground. Lastly, Mega Metagross faces competition from other Steel-type Mega Evolutions such as Mega Scizor and Mega Lucario, as they either have more defensive utility or more offensive power, respectively, although Mega Metagross contains a good mixture of the two that can make it a good choice on certain teams.

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Meteor Mash
move 2: Bullet Punch
move 3: Ice Punch / Earthquake
move 4: Toxic / Thunder Punch
item: Metagrossite
ability: Clear Body
nature: Jolly
evs: 184 HP / 148 Atk / 176 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Meteor Mash is Mega Metagross's primary attack, hitting Pokemon such as Xerneas, Arceus-Fairy, and Tyranitar super effectively. Bullet Punch is a decently strong priority move that can be used to revenge kill Geomancy Xerneas and finish off weakened offensive threats. Ice Punch is the preferred option in the third slot because it allows Mega Metagross to OHKO Mega Salamence, which it is supposed to check, and also hits Zygarde-C and Rayquaza for heavy damage, OHKOing Rayquaza and doing around half to Zygarde in its Complete forme. Earthquake can be used instead to hit Primal Groudon, Dialga, Excadrill, Toxapex, and Aegislash super effectively. Toxic cripples defensive Pokemon such as Arceus-Water, Primal Groudon, and Lugia on the switch, which otherwise, with the exception of Lugia, check Mega Metagross quite well. Thunder Punch can be used instead to OHKO defensive Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock, 3HKO Celesteea, 2HKO 192 Speed Arceus-Water after Stealth Rock, and 2HKO Primal Kyogre after Stealth Rock.

Set Details
========

184 HP EVs allows Mega Metagross to always survive a +1 Adamant Earthquake from Mega Salamence. 148 Attack EVs allows Mega Metagross to OHKO Geomancy Xerneas after Stealth Rock and 2HKO Arceus-Fairy with the combination of Meteor Mash and Bullet Punch. 176 Speed EVs with a Jolly nature allows Mega Metagross to outspeed positive-natured Base 100 speed Pokemon. Clear Body is Mega Metagross's most useful Pre-Mega ability, as it ignores Intimidate and Sticky Web from Landorus-T and Smeargle respectively.

Usage Tips
========

You should aim to use Mega Metagross's resistances to the most, so switch it in on Pokemon such as Mega Salamence, Xerneas, and Arceus-Fairy to get free turns. In the long run Meteor Mash is not going to be doing much to Pokemon such as Primal Groudon and Arceus-Ground, so poisoning them with Toxic to put them on a timer makes them much easier to deal with in the long run. Not attacking Pokemon such as Primal Kyogre and Arceus-Water with Thunder Punch initially can bluff the lack of the move, which means you can catch the opponent off-guard in the late game. However, getting an Attack raise from Meteor Mash can allow it to deal more damage to Pokemon such as Mega Gyarados and Toxapex that normally check it decently well. Since Mega Metagross is relied on to check a wide variety of threats, try not to let it take too much chip damage from Spikes and Stealth Rock. Mega Metagross's Bullet Punch can be used to revenge kill weakened threats like Mega Gengar, Arceus-Fairy, and Xerneas.

Team Options
========

Arceus-Ground is a really good teammate for Mega Metagross because it checks threats to Mega Metagross like Primal Groudon, Toxapex, and Dialga. Xerneas and Mega Metagross share similar checks, namely Primal Groudon and Ferrothorn, so Xerneas appreciates Mega Metagross's ability to wear it down for Xerneas to successfully sweep. Primal Groudon can set up Stealth Rock for Mega Metagross, which can help with wearing down opposing Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh, and forces out Pokemon such as Toxapex and Primal Kyogre. If you pair Primal Groudon with Mega Metagross, it should be running Fire-type coverage to eliminate Pokemon such as Celesteela and Skarmory, which are big threats to Mega Metagross. Ground-type immunities such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal make for great teammates, as they are able to check Pokemon such as Primal Groudon and Arceus-Ground, which Mega Metagross struggles with. Yveltal appreciates Mega Metagross's ability to check Fairy-types such as Xerneas and Arceus-Fairy as well. Spikes and Toxic Spikes users such as Ferrothorn, Toxapex, and Skarmory do stack Fire and Ground weaknesses with Mega Metagross, but they can lay down hazards to wear down typical Mega Metagross checks such as Primal Groudon, which can also help in allowing a teammate like Xerneas to sweep.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Stealth Rock on Sticky Web is a considerable option on Mega Metagross to free up other slots on other Stealth Rock users like Primal Groudon and Dialga, but it's walled by support Arceus formes and Defoggers / Rapid Spin users such as Giratina-O and Excadrill. On these teams, Explosion has some use in preventing Defog from support Arceus formes, (if only temporarily) which Mega Metagross outspeeds with Sticky Web, while dealing nice damage at the same time. Rock Slide can hit Ho-Oh for huge damage, OHKOing even defensive variants part of the time. Pursuit can trap certain Pokemon such as Deoxys-A, but that's about it. Hammer Arm hits Steel-types such as Ferrothorn, Excadrill, and Dialga for super effective damage, but faces a lot of competition from other moveslots.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Ground-types**: Ground-types like Primal Groudon, Landorus-T, Zygarde-C, Excadrill, and Arceus-Ground are some of Mega Metagross's most consistent checks; they can easily take Mega Metagross's STAB moves, and most of its coverage moves (with the exception of Excadrill and Landorus-T) and retaliate with an OHKO, heavy damage, or just set up Stealth Rock. Zygarde-C can also turn Mega Metagross into setup fodder with Dragon Dance and hard walls Earthquake variants, but it must be very wary of Ice Punch.

**Steel-types**: Steel-types such as Mega Scizor, Celesteela, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory completely wall Mega Metagross. Mega Scizor uses Mega Metagross as Swords Dance setup fodder or gains momentum on it with U-turn, Celesteela wears it down with Leech Seed, and Skarmory and Ferrothorn use it as Spikes fodder. However, Celesteela must be wary of Thunder Punch.

**Water-types**: Water-types such as Primal Kyogre and Arceus-Water wall Mega Metagross, not fearing anything except the occasional Thunder Punch, and can retaliate with heavy damage from Scald or Judgement or, in the case of Primal Kyogre, use it as setup fodder.

**Dark-types**: Dark-types such as Yveltal, Arceus-Dark, and Mega Gyarados can take Mega Metagross's STAB and coverage moves and retaliate with heavy damage or an OHKO or, in the case of Arceus-Dark and Mega Gyarados, use it as setup fodder.

**Fire-types and Coverage**: Fire-types such as Ho-Oh and Blaziken OHKO Mega Metagross with super effective STAB moves; Ho-Oh checks most Mega Metagross variants defensively, while Blaziken or its Mega forme can outspeed it after a Protect and OHKO with Flare Blitz. Random Arceus formes that run Fire Blast can also deal heavy damage, as does Mewtwo and Mega Mewtwo Y with Fire Blast.

**Ghost-types**: Faster Ghost-types such as Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and Arceus-Ghost can't switch into Mega Metagross, but they can outspeed and, in the case of Mega Gengar, OHKO it, while Marshadow deals heavy damage with Spectral Thief and, if running a Z-Move, decimates Mega Metagross with Soul-Stealing Seven Star Strike. Arceus-Ghost, however, can actually switch into Mega Metagross and deal heavy damage back with Shadow Force. Giratina-O also doesn't take too much from Mega Metagross and can deal heavy damage back with Shadow Ball or burn and heavily damage it with the combination of Will-O-Wisp and Hex. Mega Sableye deals heavy damage with Foul Play and avoids the 2HKO from Meteor Mash, but it should be careful of Attack raises.
 
Last edited:
Comparing Metagross to Gengar or Salamence doesn't sit too well with me. The mons check different things, and do quite different roles on a team. I get the idea that Salamence and Gengar find themselves on teams more often because their utility is rarer or more commonly sought after, but it doesn't seem right to compare them when there are closer comparisons to be made.

Metagross has closer comparisons with Scizor and Lucario, who are also Steel-type Megas with Bullet Punch utility. Lucario is the all out offensive variant (SD + Fighting-type, strong af, relatively fast), Scizor is the defensive variant (has momentum gain + recovery, slow, not as powerful due to coverage limitations), Metagross is like the inbetween (mixture of bulk + power + speed, lacks utility moves) in my eyes. Solgaleo is similar in typing but is 1) bad, 2) a scarfer/webs sweeper, 3) lacks Bullet Punch so its not really worth comparing the two.

Earthquake's targets aren't just Primal Groudon. Dialga, Excadrill, Aegislash, Lucario, Toxapex, neutral damage on Scizor... there are quite a few notable targets. Hammer Arm only offers a strong hit on Ferrothorn in comparison to Earthquake and is better in OO. I'd even consider it being first slash over Ice Punch if not for Salamence/Zygarde-C.

Thunder Punch also targets Arceus-Water (likely 2HKO after SR on 192 Speed variants), it stalls out a fair few Recovers if nothing else.

Switching Metagross into Deoxys-A can be a very bad idea. Psycho Boost in terrain (likely scenario when dealing with Deo-A) will deal over half to pre-Mega Metagross, and if it has Knock Off then you just die because it cant be hit with priority. Considering Psychic Terrain teams commonly have one (or both) of Salamence and Xerneas/Magearna, this is not something worth doing. Salamence is a better switch for example, but see about adding more usage tips in here as well.

Team Options needs some buffs. Ground-type immunities and Steel-type punishes are good to have with this mon (hint: Yveltal). I'd recommend any Primal Groudons used alongside this mon has Fire-type coverage to avoid giving Arceus-Ground and Celesteela more breathing room than necessary. Add a couple other good partners to this section.

OO notes SR + Explosion in 2 different points, but the best use actually combines the two on a Sticky Webs team. SR on the Defog Arceus that tends to switch into it, then Explosion to prevent losing hazards. Most Arceus formes are faster than this mon, but that advantage is gone if its at -1 Speed.

I'm somewhat undecided on Steels vs Grounds being #1 in C&C, but most C&C sections need some additions. There are offensive Steels that are to be worried about if Metagross lacks the coverage as well which hasn't been covered (Dialga, Lucario, Solgaleo). Zygarde-C takes a lot from Ice Punch, but will deal a fair amount back or just OHKO Metagross if its DD Groundium Z.

SD Arceus-Ghost runs Shadow Force, not Phantom Force. Mega Sableye should be noted in this Ghost-types section. If Giratina-O is going to be noted then Shadow Ball/Hex are more common moves on Giratina-O than Shadow Force.

Ho-Oh should be noted, maybe Blaziken too. Fire-type coverage (Fire Blast Arceus formes, special Mewtwo variants, etc) are also noteworthy issues. Perhaps wrap both points into some sort of overall "fire" section.

Dark-types like Mega Gyarados, Arceus-Dark, and Yveltal can all cause problems too.

There's a decent amount of things I've noted here, so I'll take another look and stamp after I review the changes.
 

AM

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
LCPL Champion
Ground types should take priority in checks and counters over steels. Without EQ you let pdon set up rock polish pretty freely and considering its best mon in the tier as opposed to the steel checks this should be highlighted more. Arc ground is more splashable than all the steels as well so thats another point in favor of grounds being at the top of C&Cs. Many of the steels with the exception of mega scizor are at the risk of getting dented with a certain coverage move so using them as checks can be either situational or not effective.

I dont like rayquazas mention in the overview. They run v-create a lot and metagross defensive utility is over exaggerated when justifying the steel slot to begin with. Something like arc-fairy would be a better example to put here imo.
 
Thanks for the criticizm. I am at school but later today I will make the edits you two have suggested.
 
This looks ready for QC. I've realized that I made a lot of rookie mistakes in writing this analyses (didn't flesh things out enough) and put more strain on QC than was necessary, so for that you have my apologies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ckw
Lugia isn't much of a check to Metagross as the Toxic bullet notes it is. It has no way to get damage on it, which leaves PP stalling (or having a lot of hazards up + phazing repeatedly) as the only way of winning. Metagross can just fish for Attack raises in a worst case scenario or use Ice Punch to break subs and such.

  • Primal Groudon can set up Stealth Rock for Mega Metagross and forces out Pokemon such as Toxapex and Primal Kyogre. If you pair Primal Groudon with Mega Metagross, it should be running Fire-type coverage to eliminate Pokemon
Something missing here?

Minority and I agree with AM that Ground-types are the biggest problem to Metagross - put them at #1. Ground > Steel > Water > Dark > Fire > Ghost for a more precise ordering, and it may require some rewording on some statements to make sense. Zygarde-C is still missing from the Ground-type section - Earthquake variants of Metagross are walled pretty hard by it, and could even be setup fodder to DD Zygarde.

Implement for QC 1/3
 
  • Like
Reactions: ckw

ckw

Tired
is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
However, Celesteela and Ferrothorn must be wary of Thunder Punch and Hammer Arm, respectively.
Hammer Arm is under Other Options and shouldn't be addressed in other parts of the analysis. It's gonna be rarely seen and isn't worth being addressed in Checks and Counters. (especially alongside Thunder Punch which is in the main set) I'd remove Ferrothorn's mention at the end.

**Ghost-types**: Faster Ghost-types such as Mega Gengar, Marshadow, and Arceus-Ghost can't switch into Mega Metagross, but they can outspeed and, in the case of Mega Gengar, OHKO it, while Marshadow deals heavy damage with Spectral Thief and, if running a Z-Move, decimates Mega Metagross with Soul-Stealing Seven Star Strike. Arceus-Ghost, however, can actually switch into Mega Metagross and deal heavy damage back with Shadow Force. Giratina-O also doesn't take too much from Mega Metagross and can deal heavy damage back with Shadow Ball or burn and heavily damage it with the combination of Will-O-Wisp and Hex. Mega Sableye deals heavy damage with Foul Play and even bounces back Stealth Rock from these variants of Mega Metagross. It also avoids the 2HKO from Meteor Mash, but it should be careful of Attack raises.
Same case here. You won't see this set in any team apart from Sticky Web Offense. It sounds like an additional fact here to be honest, since Mega Sableye pretty much hard walls Mega Metagross when running max hp max def with the only thing it has to fear about is the attack raise.

Good job with the rest. Implement these for QC 2/3 after which, go ahead and write this up
 

Ropalme1914

Ace Poker Player
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I'm not QC or anything, but is a spread of 200 HP / 132 Atk / 176 Spe worthy mentioning or even taking place of the one used now? The Attack loss is barely noticiable (still gets the KOes that are mentioned on GeoXerneas and Arceus-Fairy) but it allows to remove that small chance of Mega Gengar OHKOing it. IDK, it's a pretty small change, but hey, Ho-Oh's spread also uses that one that removes all the chances of Xerneas OHKOing it from full with +2 Thunder.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top