Minior Discussion

Do we know if there's a move tutor in Sun/Moon yet? Because I feel like, if it could learn Earth Power, minior could run a decent special set as well
Move tutor will be in the remakes of Sinnoh, otherwise Kommo-o Shell Smash wouldn't just be a dream right now.

A special set for Minior would be Shell Smash/Dazzling Gleam/Power Gem/Solar Beam or Psychic if poison types matter. When it gets Earth Power that would replace the last one. But really, it's still worth running Acrobatics because you still have +2 100 attack which is huge even uninvested (you have like 156 EVs to spare at worst so that won't be the case).
 
Move tutor will be in the remakes of Sinnoh, otherwise Kommo-o Shell Smash wouldn't just be a dream right now.

A special set for Minior would be Shell Smash/Dazzling Gleam/Power Gem/Solar Beam or Psychic if poison types matter. When it gets Earth Power that would replace the last one. But really, it's still worth running Acrobatics because you still have +2 100 attack which is huge even uninvested (you have like 156 EVs to spare at worst so that won't be the case).
I was brainstorming white herb shell smash + Power Gem, Earth Power and Acrobatics. Psychic or Dazzling gleam will do for now but, yeah, I'll be swapping out earth power once we get move tutors
 
I was brainstorming white herb shell smash + Power Gem, Earth Power and Acrobatics. Psychic or Dazzling gleam will do for now but, yeah, I'll be swapping out earth power once we get move tutors
Dazzling Gleam is actually not that bad. Minior has nothing else that is super effective against dark or dragon. Psychic is only worth it for poison types but those are not common at all.

Right now the best possible Minior sets are either EQ/Stone Edge/Acrobatics or Dazzling Gleam or Solar Beam if in a sun team. Acrobatics should be on all sets no matter what because you always have at least 150 EVs on both offensive stats so it always does a lot at +2.
 
I'm a personal fan of power gem, EQ, Acrobatics. Gets rid of the accuracy gamble and helps you get around anything stupidly physically bulky.
 
Can someone grab calcs for Stone Edge vs Power Gem. I think it will be a fairly important point of contention, the accuracy vs the potential loss of KO's. But will it lose notable ones? Or will the 'Mons that will be eating Stone Edge not care for Power Gem either (eg. Skarmory's far lower SpDef stat).
 
Can someone grab calcs for Stone Edge vs Power Gem. I think it will be a fairly important point of contention, the accuracy vs the potential loss of KO's. But will it lose notable ones? Or will the 'Mons that will be eating Stone Edge not care for Power Gem either (eg. Skarmory's far lower SpDef stat).
On that note, could someone look at Power Gem vs Actobatics for Garchomp and Lando-T? With rocky helmet, rough skin, and intimidate so plentiful, that might be a point of interest.
 
On that note, could someone look at Power Gem vs Actobatics for Garchomp and Lando-T? With rocky helmet, rough skin, and intimidate so plentiful, that might be a point of interest.
Even without calc'ing, I could guarantee Acrobatics will do more vs Chomp (resists Power Gem), and intimidate will surely make Acrobatics the weaker option, especially if it is the fully defensive set.
 
+2 252 SpA Minior Power Gem vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 138-163 (83.6 - 98.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Minior Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 129-153 (78.1 - 92.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Both of these in Shields Down form after one White Herb Shell Smash, Intimidated.

Can confirm Power Gem is stronger against Lando-T, and Acrobatics is stronger against Garchomp.
 
+2 252+ SpA Aerodactyl Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 76-91 (19.8 - 23.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

I did that wrong....right? Base 100 offenses in shields down? Please tell me I've messed up somewhere. I thought it would do more than that.
 
So then we can go for...

Minior @ White Herb
252 Atk/156 SpA/100 Spe
Naughty/Rash nature

-Shell Smash
-Power Gem
-Acrobatics
-EQ/Dazzling Gleam/Solar Beam

This should be the standard. Power Gem also works better against physical walls, of course:

+2 252+ Atk Minior Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 169-201 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 156 SpA Minior Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 267-315 (79.9 - 94.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Best of all there's no chance to miss.

About the choice in moves, if your last move is EQ, go Naughty. If your last move is Dazzling Gleam or Solar Beam, go Rash.
 
+2 252+ SpA Aerodactyl Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 76-91 (19.8 - 23.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

I did that wrong....right? Base 100 offenses in shields down? Please tell me I've messed up somewhere. I thought it would do more than that.
I think you had Aerodactyl set at lvl 50 instead of lvl 100.

It should be "+2 252+ SpA Aerodactyl Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 285-336 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery"
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I'm really not a fan of Solar Beam. I don't want one of my main coverage options being weather-dependent (especially since Hippowdon might be able to handle Minior, need to calc that later), and would rather have teammates wear down whatever the Grass coverage would hit.
 
I think you had Aerodactyl set at lvl 50 instead of lvl 100.

It should be "+2 252+ SpA Aerodactyl Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 285-336 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery"
That's the right calc, but it has to be more than just a Lvl50 vs Lvl100 thing lol. It's hard to tell the issue without seeing how the calc was set up.
 
I'm really not a fan of Solar Beam. I don't want one of my main coverage options being weather-dependent (especially since Hippowdon might be able to handle Minior, need to calc), and would rather have teammates wear down whatever the Grass coverage would hit.
+2 252 Atk Aerodactyl Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 210-247 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 240-284 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So Hippo can kill if it is in Shields Down, and it needs to be around 60% to take a +2 hit.

Interestingly, if you're feeling hipster:
0 Atk Hippowdon Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aerodactyl: 158-188 (52.4 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(Shields up calc, activates Weakness Policy and Shields Down, uses Shell Smash)

+4 252 Atk Aerodactyl Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 313-370 (74.5 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Sadly still doesn't kill xD But I tried.
 
I think you had Aerodactyl set at lvl 50 instead of lvl 100.

It should be "+2 252+ SpA Aerodactyl Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 285-336 (74.6 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery"
That's exactly what it was. I had calced Minior vs Garchomp prior at lvl 50 and forgot to set it the same for lando. Although I should prob just do calcs at 100. :P
 
I'm really not a fan of Solar Beam. I don't want one of my main coverage options being weather-dependent (especially since Hippowdon might be able to handle Minior, need to calc that later), and would rather have teammates wear down whatever the Grass coverage would hit.
I have mentioned that Solar Beam is only to be used if your Minior is being used in a sun team. If you don't have sun then Dazzling Gleam gets you the most coverage, taking out fighting, dragon and dark types. Why would you assume I would say to use Solar Beam on a normal Minior set, anyway?

Well, regardless, it lets you choose different Pokemon because then your Minior will have different needs to be met with the grass coverage.

Another option for sun, by the way, if you don't like the riskiness of Solar Beam, is HP Fire. It has 90 power in sun.
Another other option I mentioned at the beginning of all this is HP Ice. If you don't want to have to find a way to deal with Landorus-T/Garchomp/etc then HP Ice solves the problem handily.
 
I have mentioned that Solar Beam is only to be used if your Minior is being used in a sun team. If you don't have sun then Dazzling Gleam gets you the most coverage, taking out fighting, dragon and dark types. Why would you assume I would say to use Solar Beam on a normal Minior set, anyway?

Well, regardless, it lets you choose different Pokemon because then your Minior will have different needs to be met with the grass coverage.

Another option for sun, by the way, if you don't like the riskiness of Solar Beam, is HP Fire. It has 90 power in sun.
Another other option I mentioned at the beginning of all this is HP Ice. If you don't want to have to find a way to deal with Landorus-T/Garchomp/etc then HP Ice solves the problem handily.
HP Ice is definitely an option. I think that bulky Ground types like that are super easy to pressure early with other physical attackers, putting them into range for Minior :) Because everyone is running them, and they are usually used as blanket checks to physical 'Mons.
 
Soooo Minior is one of two new Pokemon that can't call for ally mons in battle, the other being Wimpod. It's genderless, which hinders breeding efficiency. And it has the second-lowest non-Legendary catch rate of all the new Pokemon at 30, with Dhelmise being the lowest at 25.

Guess they compensated for this thing's battle viability by making it stupidly difficult to actually obtain a viable Minior.
 
So then we can go for...

Minior @ White Herb
252 Atk/156 SpA/100 Spe
Naughty/Rash nature

-Shell Smash
-Power Gem
-Acrobatics
-EQ/Dazzling Gleam/Solar Beam

This should be the standard. Power Gem also works better against physical walls, of course:

+2 252+ Atk Minior Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 169-201 (50.5 - 60.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 156 SpA Minior Power Gem vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 267-315 (79.9 - 94.3%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Best of all there's no chance to miss.

About the choice in moves, if your last move is EQ, go Naughty. If your last move is Dazzling Gleam or Solar Beam, go Rash.
Would you always put the bulk of your EVs in At even if you're running a double special set?
 
Would you always put the bulk of your EVs in At even if you're running a double special set?
Without any calcs or time to research to bacj up my opinion, I would. Here is my reasoning: Acrobatics has 165 power with STAB while the best you'll get on a special move is Power Gem at 120. At +2, both of your offensive stats, regardless of 252 vs 156 EVs, hit around 600-700. If you keep the majority of your investment in attack, Minior is able to OHKO bulkier stuff much easier because of how strong Acrobatics is. If you invest fully in SpA, you won't be getting many more OHKOs or 2HKOs and your Acrobatics will only 2HKO what it used to OHKO at the benefit of manipulating your coverage. A Rash set with 252 SpA EVs and 156 Atk EVs is better at coverage but you will not OHKO as hard, so it's better in weird stuff like Sun since in that case you will easily get rid of stuff ground or flying get rid of anyway (steel, bug, grass, rock, poison, etc).

Of course, because of your post I will spend a few hours during the day when I get gome from class looking at SpA-invested calcs and sharing those with you so we can see how Minior does either way, but remember that Acrobatics is by far its strongest single hit move so it gets the most possible OHKOs focusing on making it OHKO with special EVs for coverage that would resist flying.
 
Wow, Minior's looking like it has a lot more potential than I thought it would have. Glad it doesn't evolve into Solrock/Lunatone. However, there's one thing I've been thinking about: There are a bunch of Pokemon that can OHKO White Herb Shell Smash Minior in Shields Up. These Pokemon could take it out before it can even get started. I know that every Pokemon has its weaknesses, but no one has even addressed the possibility of Minior being OHKO'd in its first form.
 
Wow, Minior's looking like it has a lot more potential than I thought it would have. Glad it doesn't evolve into Solrock/Lunatone. However, there's one thing I've been thinking about: There are a bunch of Pokemon that can OHKO White Herb Shell Smash Minior in Shields Up. These Pokemon could take it out before it can even get started. I know that every Pokemon has its weaknesses, but no one has even addressed the possibility of Minior being OHKO'd in its first form.
That's a fair point that I agree hasn't been brought up. But it's like any set-up sweeper, you would bring in in against things that wouldn't be able to OHKO it.

One thing I foresee happening, if activate Shields Down becomes too unreliable, is possibly running a berry that rescues SE damage as a kind of bait? You would need priority users down due to dropped defenses, but realistically, you would need them down anyways n
 

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