MLB 2016

biggie

champ
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
It's that time of year again. With pitchers and catchers reporting this week and a whole set of storylines ready to bombard us for the next 9 or so months, baseball is finally on the horizon. What teams are going to make steps to the next level? Will the Royals repeat their championship run? Will Jonathan Papelbon and Bryce Harper star in their own buddy comedy series during spring training? We're getting ready to find out.

I will be renewing the fantasy baseball league shortly. I know we discussed various options as far as keepers go last season, but let's hammer that out now before it gets too far along in the process.

P L A Y B A L L !
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Reminder of keeper rules from last season

"Remember, you are allowed no more than 6 keepers, and will take a cap hit equal to half of the 2016 projected value OR the price that player was drafted in 2015"

We also were discussing either a 3 year max times kept or a flat dollar increase per year kept as well, idr what we decided though
 
I'm strongly in favor of keeping our keeper rules from last season. It's what we did last year. It's fair. And it's what we made trades and moves for.

I do want to find a way to make these rules better though, as I think there is a huge flaw that this system has with rookies and undrafted players. All you have to do is take a look back to last season and look at assumed keepers this year to see my point.

Stall obtained Correa last season from the Free Agent pool because of fast fingers when he got called up. I assume there were a few of us that wanted to obtain Correa, but we just were not fast enough. As a result of fast fingers, Stall obtained Correa for $0 and because Correa is valued at $34 this season, he will gain the best SS in baseball for a savings of $17.

There are other examples I could bring, but that's the most egregious problem I have with this keeper format, and keeper formats in general. I've abused it enough to know, and I did the same damned thing with the 5th best SS in baseball in Seager. We need to strike a balance between rewarding teams who draft well as well as rewarding midseason FA pickups. I don't think it can be done this year, even though I want to, as that'll probably cause a fight. But let me know what you guys think.

Moving forward though, I think we should make it that teams can only keep 1 FA Pickup with a keeper value of $0 to limit the amount of Dynasty Players you can hoard from year to year through FA.

I'd also want to propose we lower the Keepers from 6 down to 4 or something in the name of making sure the draft is strong enough for new players and bad managers to compete. We do auction drafts, so if you can't decide on a keeper and you still want to own that player, you still have every opportunity to have them on your team if you're willing to pay a little more. Again, this also limits the core of Dynasty Players allowed on one team.

Just my thoughts. I'm also wondering if there is any interests in having 2 Fantasy Baseball leagues this year. Our regular serious keeper one and a second casual re-draft league? I feel we lost a lot of people last year who were kinda interested in playing but didn't want to be locked in year after year or who didn't want to pour copious amounts of time into it.
 
(wall of text)
I mean, that's the whole reason I proposed the rule of half of projected value vs price kept at the previous season. The way it was before was even more unfavorable towards "bad" (read: inactive) managers. And in fairness to Stall, he actually held on to Correa for like a month before he ever made his MLB debut. Anyone who invests in a player in that manner deserves to reap the benefits. Fortunately, however, the FA pickups that end up as top 5 round draft picks the very next season are few in far between.

As far as your other proposals go, I'd rather the limit to one $1 player kept per team than reducing the number of players that can be kept on a given year.

I started up a baseball league on yahoo that's H2H, snake draft, 6x6, FAAB waivers, 5 keepers, and deepish rosters. Obviously not "casual" or entirely redraft, but anyone who wants to join is welcome. Just stay active.
 
Del Rio That was in no way a rip on Stallion or a play style. Just the best example of a situation I'd like to avoid. We will always have new players show up and catch on fire. Long term, I just want things to be competitive and equitable so that every manager feels like they have a shot to win the league year. Entering into year 3 now and moving into year 4, I'd like to be able to say that.

Maybe the answer is to go FAAB with our league. It hurts my streaming powers, but that way it allows people like Stallion who grab players early that huge advantage. And if someone gets hot or if they are called up all of a sudden and it's a race to that player, it's more equitable and also gives them a higher-ish keeper value.
 
Anyway, I have 5 of my keepers for our league all but decided. The sixth and final is a bit of a tougher choice between about 3 guys. Maybe I should keep some pitching this time?



...nah...
 

Stallion

Tree Young
is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
I'll address the rest of the post when I'm on a computer but I will say this: I stashed Correa for about a month before he got called up. That's not fast fingers, that's called good managing. Any idiot knew he was going to be called up this year and I clearly wanted him more than anyone else, so I deserve to be rewarded for it. I'm just saying.

Edit: didn't see that Del Rio had already mentioned that. Doing my work for me!

Edit 2: I don't mind the idea of FAAB. The only thing I don't like about it is that if you get completely fucked over by injury, you can't come back from it as easily. I do think streaming is stupid though and can give worse teams a chance to win when they shouldn't (not a shot at you ButteredToast seeing as it's the bulk of your pitching strategy, different kettle of fish there cause you draft your team specifically with streaming in mind). I'm all for exploring measures that limit it.
 
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According to Yahoo, FAAB doesn't apply to free agents, only players placed on waivers. So while it wouldn't curtail streaming, it would apply to prospects since I think they're placed on waivers as soon as they're added to Yahoo's database. Although, for our purpose, most of the top prospects (and ones who are about to make their MLB debut) are already available as FAs.
 
I think that my point has totally been been warped from my intentions, so let me swing that around again. I drafted Johnny Cueto for like $3 and picked up Todd Frazier from Free Agency after Stall dropped him so he cost $0. I kept them last year at mass discounts and I will keep them again this year again for mass discounts. Now Cueto and Frazier are still poor examples because they have shown flashes of EXTREME elite, but fell off the 2nd half of last year. But should I be allowed to benefit from their presence for near 4 years because I took a risk on Cueto and had a free bench spot for Frazier? I also drafted Altuve for like $5 and traded him for an obscene amount of decent pitching last year because of his keeper value. And you all expressed dislike at that trade.

There needs to be something that lessens the impact of massive deals long term, and moving forward.

So Stallion , I know you stashed Correa and mentioned that. It was an example to show how someone could benefit long term on a whim. Yes, that wasn't the case in our league but there have been "fast finger" cases before. Correa and his $34 price value just represented a point more than anyone else obtained in FA last year and I used you because you of course have Correa.

Del Rio If FAAB is just on waivers, it's not going to be worth it. FAAB stands for Free Agent Acquisition Budget, and in ESPN it applies to waivers and free agents as well. I honestly don't even like FAAB because it creates its own set of issues, but it is an option.
 

biggie

champ
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I think that my point has totally been been warped from my intentions, so let me swing that around again. I drafted Johnny Cueto for like $3 and picked up Todd Frazier from Free Agency after Stall dropped him so he cost $0. I kept them last year at mass discounts and I will keep them again this year again for mass discounts. Now Cueto and Frazier are still poor examples because they have shown flashes of EXTREME elite, but fell off the 2nd half of last year. But should I be allowed to benefit from their presence for near 4 years because I took a risk on Cueto and had a free bench spot for Frazier? I also drafted Altuve for like $5 and traded him for an obscene amount of decent pitching last year because of his keeper value. And you all expressed dislike at that trade.

There needs to be something that lessens the impact of massive deals long term, and moving forward.

So Stallion , I know you stashed Correa and mentioned that. It was an example to show how someone could benefit long term on a whim. Yes, that wasn't the case in our league but there have been "fast finger" cases before. Correa and his $34 price value just represented a point more than anyone else obtained in FA last year and I used you because you of course have Correa.

Del Rio If FAAB is just on waivers, it's not going to be worth it. FAAB stands for Free Agent Acquisition Budget, and in ESPN it applies to waivers and free agents as well. I honestly don't even like FAAB because it creates its own set of issues, but it is an option.
Not sure why you think that Frazier would be kept for $0. He was drafted by someone last year for $9, so that would be the starting point there. If a player is dropped because of severe injury or ineffectiveness, that doesn't change how much they initially cost.
 
Not sure why you think that Frazier would be kept for $0. He was drafted by someone last year for $9, so that would be the starting point there. If a player is dropped because of severe injury or ineffectiveness, that doesn't change how much they initially cost.
I remember this discussion from last year and you guys all having problems understanding my figures. x_x I assign keeper values as the price that player was drafted/kept at last year, and adjust the next year. This is a result of me actually having the draft/keeper price and not knowing what the potential price for the next year will be.

Frazier was undrafted in 2014. Stall picked him up, then I claimed him off of waivers. Because he was undrafted, his assigned keeper value is $0 and remains so until the projected values immediately before the draft.

In 2015, I chose to keep Frazier because of the upside he presented. His projected value for the 2015 season was $18 at the time of the draft, and as such his keeper value from last year is adjusted to $9.

The reason I do it this way is because of what happens this year for things like this year. As of right now, Frazier's projected value for 2016 is $16. Frazier's keeper value does not need to be adjusted from the previous year, and is kept at $9.

It's just organizationally works with my mindset and viewing keepers as assets.
 
I drafted Johnny Cueto for like $3 and picked up Todd Frazier from Free Agency after Stall dropped him so he cost $0. I kept them last year at mass discounts and I will keep them again this year again for mass discounts.
I think you're overstating this just to make a point. While you might value your players differently, Cueto is $15 projected and Frazier is $16 projected on Yahoo. At the prices paid for them last year, you're saving a total of $12 between them vs projected value.

And for the most part, the vast majority of players kept in this league will result in savings of only single digit dollars individually. There are players like Correa going for $17, Machado (with SS) going for $16, and Donaldson going for $20, but this type of obscene value is rare under the rule I proposed last year. Formerly, Correa would have been Stall's for only $1.

Ultimately, I think we've struck a balance between rewarding managers for making good investments and not screwing over other managers. Others may disagree, and if they do, they can state why while there's still time to do so.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Agreeing that the keeper rules we established last year are an excellent balance

But did we want to limit the number of years a player can be kept?
 
If the Jays trade for Bruce goes through... holy fuck, how is this lineup actually gonna go?

1. Travis
2. Donaldson
3. Bautista
4. Encarnacion
5. Bruce
6. Tulo
7. Colabello
8. Martin
9. Pillar

Maybe they lead Donaldson off like they did at one point last year if Travis is still injured. Pillar would lead off if he could take a damn walk
 
They Jays would have been better off in my opinion had they kept Ben Revere. I mean, giving up Sanders and a prospect or two for Bruce is a no doubt upgrade, but Bruce represents exactly what the Jays do NOT need. That's slow defensive liabilities that hit for low average and strike out. In Revere they had a table setter for their lineup who gave them a dynamic they are missing. In Bruce, they are adding empty power that is probably only going to ever get the chance to blast anything more than solo shots every once in a full moon.

Good move considering where they are at, but it was a better lineup with Revere imo.
 

Texas Cloverleaf

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Revere wasn't that good for us, he was fast and a decent singles hitter but his OBP was pretty mediocre so he wasn't a serious option to set the table for other guys. In fairness, Bruce's OBP is shit too, but someone made the good point that Bruce's decline was timed with the departure of Brooks Jacoby as the Reds hitting coach. Current Blue Jays hitting coach: Brooks Jacoby. Essentially we're betting that we're buying him low and that we can get .250/20+ out of our 7 slot and not have to risk Saunders's knee imploding again.

edit: oh yeah plus getting Storen is a big win for us so keeping Revere isn't something I think most fans would do anyway
 
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The trade fell through, but it actually made sense to me. The Jays need a lefty slugger in the middle of their lineup and they probably feel they won't be able to retain Bautista, especially after coming out and saying he's looking for about 30 mil a year
 
Stallion & Texas Cloverleaf : Nothing was really decided and we kind of let it fade off. I set up a poll last year at the beginning regarding keepers moving forward (that can be found here if the link works or if you just go to the 2015 tab on the league), and out of the 3 people who voted we all selected different options. However, in the comments two people agreed to combining and "Last Years Paid Price * % Tax (probably like a 20%-25% , players not drafted would use projected value * based tax)" and "Players can only be kept for at most 3 years for just their original paid price. Players not drafted the year before use current draft years projected value."

Nothing was ever done formally about keepers for THIS YEAR since I don't think. I checked the old thread quickly and didn't find anything.

Going back to last year though, I also found a poll I started regarding playoff tiebreaks from head to head record to seed number. We should probably decide that ahead of the season.

I'm going to go ahead and re-create polls for both of these changes on the League Page soon-ish just for next year when we're all running around trying to find what we decided for this year. Please chime in there in addition to discussing here.
 
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Stallion

Tree Young
is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Three-Time Past WCoP Champion
My preference is a 3 year limit, it prevents the building of a dynasty while at the same time rewards managers for shrewd pickups. Not a fan of the whole price increase thing because it punishes players for picking someone while their career is on the upswing (and therefore, likely to be kept for the duration of the 3 years - e.g. Correa)
 
Voted for the same keeper rules as last year, plus a 3 consecutive year limit on keeping any player (3 votes for this thus far)

Voted for higher seed wins the tiebreak in a playoff matchup.
 

biggie

champ
is a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Last year the auction budget was $260 so I imagine we'd stick with that. Will vote on the league page, but I'm going with max years (does being kept this year count?) and H2H match-up.
 
I am doing my student teaching this semester, and as such my time will be somewhat limited and spotty when it comes to preparing for Fantasy Baseball. I had some time today to go through and take a look at my keepers, so I'm going to go ahead to post that here and try to start the trend of having people openly share what they're thinking to assist in others planning.

This plan to do this early is only going to work if two things happen:

1) These keepers are not final keepers. There obviously needs to be flexibility with these keepers and these are not final. Last year, Darvish and Stroman went down with injuries and there was scores of other things which hurt players value for the season and changed players fantasy value. I'd like to reserve the option to make additions and changes as injuries occur or based on Spring Training performances. I also want to kind of see what you guys are keeping before finalizing mine. Obviously, if everyone is keeping their Second Baseman and there is no one of value in the player pool, I might think about keeping DJ LeMahiu. Or if there are a bunch of OF options, I might want to kick out Heyward knowing I can replace him easily. It's all relative.

2) While keepers are not final, I honestly don't want people to dick off with the keepers as a way of purposely providing false information to fuck up each others plans. That is, putting players you have no intentions of keeping on the list for the reason of messing up other players plans or keepers. I would like to think we are adults and would be above this. Yes, keep your draft plans secret. Yes, make changes to keepers and rosters whenever you want. No, this is not enforceable. But just please, don't dick with people like this.

---
Just as a heads up, I want to remind you guys of the rule we used last year dealing with decimals in keeper values.
If your player has an odd number projection value like $9, it will count as $4.5 on your cap and not $5, but any decimal points in the final tabulation will be rounded. So if total of all your keepers values ends up at $90.5, your hit will be $91.
Anyways, here is my pending list of my intended keepers. I will edit this with changes. If anyone wants to do biggie a favor, they could make an open google doc or google sheet to record all these in one place for easy access and post it to the league board. I would now, but I'm pretty gassed from today. Maybe I'll do that tomorrow or this weekend.
---

Keeper List (Last Year / Projected)
1. Yoenis Cespedes - $19 (19 / 24)
2. Johnny Cueto - $10 (10 / 15)
3. Todd Frazier - $9 (9 / 16)
4. Cole Hammels - $10 (10 / 16)
5. Jayson Heyward - $17 (17 / 18)
6. Corey Seager - $6.5 (0 / 13)

Total Cap Hit: $72 ($71.5 rounded up, per the rule I quoted)
Auction Budget Left: $188

I'm considering a few of my supporting pieces still such as Severino, Wacha, Miller, and LeMehieu but the rest of the guys like Bautista, Encarnacion, Tulo, Wainwright, Tanaka, and Shields are pretty much locks to be released into the draft pool.
 
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