SPOILERS! Necrozma Dusk Mane/Dawn Wing [If it wasn't obvious spoilers]

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One small catch:

252 SpA Expert Belt Latios Moongeist Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 216-257 (51.9 - 61.7%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (with Latios's SpA set to 167)

You need to be in Dawn Wings form to begin with to do this, of course, so it's telegraphed from a mile away.
Yea, I was assuming you evolve from Dusk Mane.

The other problem with that is that you have to sacrifice Sunsteel Strike for Flash Cannon to cover for Xerneas, which doesn't even kill it with a +1 Calm Mind without Stealth Rock. And since Dawn Wings has a much worse defensive typing, you're likely not going to risk getting that Calm Mind up anyway.
 
Ultra Necrozma will more than likely be used as a way to complement Dusk-Maned Necrozma rather than a standalone Pokmeon. Dusk-Maned Necrozma already has a good amount of utility between access to reliable recover, SD, and Prism Armor. The added utility that the new typing and additional speed can provide makes it a much more threatening Pokemon in many matchups. This is likely going to be my preferred set when using it in Ubers.

Necrozma@ Ultra Necrozium-Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Morning Sun
- Photon Geyser

Speed EVs let Necrozma outspeed 84 Spe Groudon before becoming ultra and neutral base 120s after going Ultra. More special defense investment is likely going to be necessary to let Necrozma consistently tank more hits (with the current HP EVs, Dusk-Maned is coming close to surviving the combination of Xern Moonblast + Arceus Ground's Judgement after SR, while Ultra Necrozma is coming close to surviving Kyogre's Ice beam after SR). Photon Geyser > Earthquake since it deals more damage to most of Earthquake's targets like Primal groudon and gives Necrozma better matchups vs. stuff like Marshadow, Ho-oh, etc. The threat of Ultra Necrozma makes mons like Groudon and Kyogre much shakier checks since it can outspeed and KO them with boosted Photon Geyser / Light that Burns the sky. Typing change also forces stuff like Ho-oh to predict whether you will become Ultra or not, leading to a greater number of potential setup opportunities.
 
I'm thinking some EV investment for SpA and Heat Wave might be needed for coverage. Every single one of it's STABS in either DM or Ultra form are walled pretty hard by Steel types. Aegislash in particular seems to both check and counter it.
 
I'm thinking some EV investment for SpA and Heat Wave might be needed for coverage. Every single one of it's STABS in either DM or Ultra form are walled pretty hard by Steel types. Aegislash in particular seems to both check and counter it.
The one steel-type which has seen usage in Ubers is Steela and sometimes Ferrothorn on some stall builds, I believe, which can be beaten anyway by other team members.
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
How much chance would moon nec have at ou? It looks somewhat like hoopa with better stab but no fighting coverage
It'd probably not be re-tested and allowed back in. This thing places an even heavier strain on defensive teams while actually being decent vs offensive teams with its typing - Ghost/Psychic is better than Dark/Psychic offensively imo, bulk, many ways to set up (hoopa-u has Nasty Plot but that's not threatening at all vs offense, this thing gets Rock Polish and Calm Mind which are faster and bulkier, respectively) and Prism Armor. Yeah, it's not really far off from not being broken but it seems like it's just too strong vs a variety of playstyles compared to Hoopa-U, which has mediocre bulk and speed. While Ghost/Psychic is shit defensively this thing is still damn bulky and poses more of a threat to offense than hoopa so I don't think it'll be tested in OU.
 
How much chance would moon nec have at ou? It looks somewhat like hoopa with better stab but no fighting coverage
AV tyranitar and weavile are probably going to be really popular at the beginning of the meta so it might actually start of OU then maybe get banned after things settle.
 
There are going to be more pressing matters in OU once friday arrives than seeing whether Disappointing Wings Necrozma could find a home in OU. Kyurem-B started in Ubers when BW2 was released (even though it was mostly because of a lack of precedent) and it should be the case here as well. Later on, it 'could' be tested.
 
They confirmed on the USUM speculation thread over on the OU subforum that both formes would start off in Ubers.

Personally, I think a suspect for Dawn Wings isn’t out of the question. While its defensive counterplay is somewhat limited (though most dark types can handle its STABs with ease), its offensive counterplay is plentiful. Not getting focus blast is a huge issue for it.

I think a comparison to Hoopa is fair, except Hoopa has added ridiculousness in being able to run physical or special sets with just as much ease, which makes it far harder to check.
 
Is Dawn Wings going to end up in Ubers, or stay in OU like Black Kyruem? It has pretty good power, but it's speed is not great, so it is a trick question where it will end up.
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
Is Dawn Wings going to end up in Ubers, or stay in OU like Black Kyruem? It has pretty good power, but it's speed is not great, so it is a trick question where it will end up.
I hope people read this response before asking a million times again.

IT WILL START OUT IN UBERS

IF IT'S BALANCED IN OU (which is highly unlikely as it is incredibly bulky and can run over defensive teams while still being decent vs offense with that bulk and Rock Polish, unlike Hoopa-U which is really bad vs offense) IT WILL BE TESTED AND DROPPED

OTHERWISE, IT WILL STAY UBERS

It's pretty damn hard to guess whether it'll be balanced right now, at least let the metagame come out for a bit lol. As I said, I doubt it'll be unbanned, but a suspect wouldn't be out of the question if the meta fits it. But yeah, it's gonna start out in Ubers so idk why people are always asking if it'll be unbanned right now.
 
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If the Metagame gets as balanced as S/M ended up being, with no obviously banable threats RN, then a suspect isn't out of the question, but only when the tier settles.

I don't expect Dawn Wings to PASS the suspect, but it'd be worth the suspect if nothing else.

Right at the start? not a chance in hell the metas gonna be weird enough as it is with all the New Toy syndrome running around.
 
I'm not hyping about this mon, but I think we are seriously understimating the raw bulk of this thing with Prism Armor in the OU Tier. I mean, this piece of garbage has Rock Polish and Swords Dance, and yes, yes, I definitely see Dusk Mane getting both. I'm not saying this is unstopable or anything like that, but with those stats, movepool and ability, it would EASILY get the +2 +2 (it just need +2 in one of them tbh, it depends on the MU).
 
I'm not hyping about this mon, but I think we are seriously understimating the raw bulk of this thing with Prism Armor in the OU Tier. I mean, this piece of garbage has Rock Polish and Swords Dance, and yes, yes, I definitely see Dusk Mane getting both. I'm not saying this is unstopable or anything like that, but with those stats, movepool and ability, it would EASILY get the +2 +2 (it just need +2 in one of them tbh, it depends on the MU).
If it ever gets tested, that's the thing that would keep it banned (yep, I think it could be suspected, but it would never remain in OU). It has a horrible defensive typing, with two nasty double weaknesses and no useful resistances, but it's got very good overall bulk and the ability to wallbreak pretty well.

Regardless, it will have to cope right now with the fact it will most likely be D-rank garbage in Ubers. Dusk Mane gets the better boosting moves and a much better defensive typing, although its movepool is kind of worse.
 
Dawn Wing's counters / checks will probably be fast ghost types and fast dark types. ( Arceus Dark and Arceus Ghost, Tyranitar, Mega Gengar and regular Gengar, Marshadow, Darkrai, and Yveltal are some major examples. ).
 
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MattL

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Even though Light That Burns The Sky already has two helpful effects, I still think it should've ignored immunities or something. The ridiculous animation they gave it combined with the fact that Poochyena is immune to it troubles me.

Anyway, this is pretty obvious and has probably already been said but Ultra Necrozma might really want to run Rock Polish because Mega Gengar will only become more viable due to its ability to trap all 3 formes (barring Scarf on DM or DW but those seem like questionable sets). It has a lot of flexibility as a Rock Polish user though, having both potent physical and special sets.
 
Even though Light That Burns The Sky already has two helpful effects, I still think it should've ignored immunities or something. The ridiculous animation they gave it combined with the fact that Poochyena is immune to it troubles me.

Anyway, this is pretty obvious and has probably already been said but Ultra Necrozma might really want to run Rock Polish because Mega Gengar will only become more viable due to its ability to trap all 3 formes (barring Scarf on DM or DW but those seem like questionable sets). It has a lot of flexibility as a Rock Polish user though, having both potent physical and special sets.
Why waste a moveslot just to outspeed one mon that can counter it? It already outspeeds a good portion of the tier. You may as well just have someone on your team that can take care of Mega Gengar before sending out Necrozma.
 
I don't think neither form will be useful in Ubers besides to provide Ultra-Necrozma a certain coverage move or to get in safely. But curious how people will play with it. You can run a specially based Ultra-Necrozma but come in in dusk mane form so people may think its physically based.
I think there is room for mind games if people develop a certain tell... or everyone just runs dusk mane form for any Ultra-Necrozma set.
 
But curious how people will play with it. You can run a specially based Ultra-Necrozma but come in in dusk mane form so people may think its physically based.
I don't think that's gonna work very well. In this case the only thing that the base form affects in wether you have Moongeist or Sunsteel. Obviously in you want Moongeist, you'll have to use Wings. But Mane is superior as a base form in every other case.
 
Despite Ultra Necrozma’s typing being mediocre offensively, it has incredible (possibly even groundbreaking) wallbreaking potential. A boosted Light that burns the sky KOs majority of Uber’s “walls”.

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Celesteela: 387-456 (97.4 - 114.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 520-613 (125.3 - 147.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 817-963 (128.4 - 151.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 270-318 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 607-715 (150.6 - 177.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 255-300 (72.4 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 519-612 (128.7 - 151.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 501-589 (99.4 - 116.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 673-793 (151.5 - 178.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Applies to every Arceus forme that doesn’t resist)

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 504-594 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Ultra Necrozma’s ability to break common walls will definitely be useful given stall and balance teams currently rule the meta. Dusk Mane can also find set up opportunities vs many balance and stall pokes which are:

•Xerneas
•Deoxy formes
•Most Arceus formes(Except ground and ghost)
•Mega Metagross
•Blissey/Chansey(Unless T-wave)
•Mewtwo and megas
•Magearna
•Gothitelle

Honestly the only walls that annoy this thing is Arceus-Dark and Mega Sableye.
 
Despite Ultra Necrozma’s typing being mediocre offensively, it has incredible (possibly even groundbreaking) wallbreaking potential. A boosted Light that burns the sky KOs majority of Uber’s “walls”.

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Celesteela: 387-456 (97.4 - 114.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 52 SpD Ho-Oh: 520-613 (125.3 - 147.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 817-963 (128.4 - 151.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia: 270-318 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Primal Groudon: 607-715 (150.6 - 177.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 255-300 (72.4 - 85.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Primal Kyogre: 519-612 (128.7 - 151.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 501-589 (99.4 - 116.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Water: 673-793 (151.5 - 178.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Applies to every Arceus forme that doesn’t resist)

+2 252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Light That Burns the Sky vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 504-594 (77.4 - 91.2%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Ultra Necrozma’s ability to break common walls will definitely be useful given stall and balance teams currently rule the meta. Dusk Mane can also find set up opportunities vs many balance and stall pokes which are:

•Xerneas
•Deoxy formes
•Most Arceus formes(Except ground and ghost)
•Mega Metagross
•Blissey/Chansey(Unless T-wave)
•Mewtwo and megas
•Magearna
•Gothitelle

Honestly the only walls that annoy this thing is Arceus-Dark and Mega Sableye.
Yeah, but why Necrozma when there's Marshadow? Why would you pick one over the other?
 
Yeah, but why Necrozma when there's Marshadow? Why would you pick one over the other?
Simple. They aren't related. They have completely different niches. Marshadow's niches are Spectral Thief, Technician Shadow Sneak, completely unresisted STAB coverage, and Bulk Up + SS7SS. Ultra Necrozma's will be probably as a sweeper and wallbreaker with all those setup moves and high offensive stats. It also beats Marshadow 1v1 if it outspeeds (and isn't locked into outrage unboosted for some reason):
252 Atk Neuroforce Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyster vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Marshadow: 514-607 (160.1 - 189%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 257-304 (76.7 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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