Like i said, i don't care if everyone thinks my team is trash, or if they think the other team is blatantly better and vote for that instead. I realize one of my faults is getting too worked up over stuff like this, but the very basics of this thread calls that people should actually look at and think about every team. I always try not to be hurtful, and i apologize profusely to anyone who has taken this poorly. I may have been abusive, overly aggressive, or threatening (spirit certainly agrees), especially when being salty about how slurmz took my/our team and posted it as an individual (and now apparently agrees with the very virizion he removed from my team? lol?) or at people who have expressed "ideas" that i disagreed with (namely cruton and dtc, who I have nothing against now or will have in the future).
The whole of my messages, however, have been a benign discussion of team(s), and is being taken poorly in the light that this is a competition (which is a factor that I have been entirely ignoring, especially once the first few votes were in). I plead people to step out of the mentality that this thread is solely for posting and voting on teams, when it would instead benefit much more from a discussion of teams and perhaps the intrinsic advantages and weaknesses of the challenge/core for a round.
The truth is, I don't even know how many people have legitimately read my posts in entirety (at least slurmz has, thanks bud :3). It's kind of sad that the unintended consequences of this are working entirely opposite of what I intended, where Aldo has to say
Here's a more timid version of my response to DTC:
Hey DTC, thanks for posting some discussion about my team! I think you have a few misconceptions however, so let me clear them up. Firstly, my team's rocker is not diglett, and my team does not lack roar when that's exactly what my blastoise runs. You implying that the lack of heal bell or wish severely neuters a team relying on defensive utility is somewhat flawed in my mind (I also have two status absorbers and the other two are immune to toxic, which helps with this); could you kindly elaborate further on this point? Additionally, I don't agree with your judgement that my team being "primarily specially defensive" is bad when a) You didn't really explain a strong connection between that and a poor team, as this isn't a case of my team lacking physical defense at all and b) It is actually primarily physically defensive, with registeel, blastoise, and weezing all having more defense than special defense. I agree wholeheartedly that the 3 mons you mentioned are threatening for my team to face, but I do believe they are reasonable enough to handle and not common enough for you to claim that I must be kidding myself to believe this team can be viable in a serious setting. Perhaps if you could elaborate a little more on the "random small holes" that are unique to my team, I can better understand the point you are trying to make. I do agree that it would be better if my team could be faster, but a) not every team can afford to have a lot of speed, and thus instead compensate in other areas, and b) the fact that both diglett and dugtrio trap the opponent and significantly limit counterplay makes this problem much less apparent, although definitely still existing.
Regarading llamas post, it is true that dugtrio is not necessary to support malamar (this is just the route I chose to take with this team). Dugtrio is still worthwhile, however, as it functions as a method to guarantee removal or weakening of anything that can check malamar (diancie is one example), and also can defeat things that threaten the team as a whole (think CM Delphox or LO hoopa, for example). The fact that malamar needs time to boost and sweep, and is also sometimes put in a position where it can get a kill but can't sweep, should make it apparant that it not only needs support in setting up, but also needs support in fully sweeping. That's exactly what my team is intended to do with dugs + the rest of the defensive core, but interestingly enough, the team doesn't actually win games this way as much as I intended, as weezing or other members also acts as more passive wincon at times.
Its also true that I originally built this team for ladder play and counterstyling, but this does not mean that the teams effectiveness is solely limited to these areas, and further testing has revealed to me that it can function well outside of the ladder meta against the general metagame and against competent opponents. This is where the difference between me and everyone else lies, because I have actually played with this team much more than anyone else. I definitely need to test it more however, and in no way is it perfect, which is why I posted it here, in hopes to garner some discussion about the team. Thanks for the post though llamas, I appreciate the honest and straightforward (but not aggressive) discussion you brought up.
As a "side note", it'd be great if other people could discuss their thoughts on the other team as well, as slurmz and I have been the only ones to do so, and we both probably want to modify the team and make it a bit better, which this would help with.
The whole of my messages, however, have been a benign discussion of team(s), and is being taken poorly in the light that this is a competition (which is a factor that I have been entirely ignoring, especially once the first few votes were in). I plead people to step out of the mentality that this thread is solely for posting and voting on teams, when it would instead benefit much more from a discussion of teams and perhaps the intrinsic advantages and weaknesses of the challenge/core for a round.
The truth is, I don't even know how many people have legitimately read my posts in entirety (at least slurmz has, thanks bud :3). It's kind of sad that the unintended consequences of this are working entirely opposite of what I intended, where Aldo has to say
which pretty much stifles the very discussion that I want and have asked from the people participating in this thread, while focusing solely on the results of the competition or the voting, which again, I frankly couldn't care about (especially at this point where I've already lost). Seeing as Aldo has played against the team several times, it'd be great to hear some discussion from you bud.
Here's a more timid version of my response to DTC:
Hey DTC, thanks for posting some discussion about my team! I think you have a few misconceptions however, so let me clear them up. Firstly, my team's rocker is not diglett, and my team does not lack roar when that's exactly what my blastoise runs. You implying that the lack of heal bell or wish severely neuters a team relying on defensive utility is somewhat flawed in my mind (I also have two status absorbers and the other two are immune to toxic, which helps with this); could you kindly elaborate further on this point? Additionally, I don't agree with your judgement that my team being "primarily specially defensive" is bad when a) You didn't really explain a strong connection between that and a poor team, as this isn't a case of my team lacking physical defense at all and b) It is actually primarily physically defensive, with registeel, blastoise, and weezing all having more defense than special defense. I agree wholeheartedly that the 3 mons you mentioned are threatening for my team to face, but I do believe they are reasonable enough to handle and not common enough for you to claim that I must be kidding myself to believe this team can be viable in a serious setting. Perhaps if you could elaborate a little more on the "random small holes" that are unique to my team, I can better understand the point you are trying to make. I do agree that it would be better if my team could be faster, but a) not every team can afford to have a lot of speed, and thus instead compensate in other areas, and b) the fact that both diglett and dugtrio trap the opponent and significantly limit counterplay makes this problem much less apparent, although definitely still existing.
Regarading llamas post, it is true that dugtrio is not necessary to support malamar (this is just the route I chose to take with this team). Dugtrio is still worthwhile, however, as it functions as a method to guarantee removal or weakening of anything that can check malamar (diancie is one example), and also can defeat things that threaten the team as a whole (think CM Delphox or LO hoopa, for example). The fact that malamar needs time to boost and sweep, and is also sometimes put in a position where it can get a kill but can't sweep, should make it apparant that it not only needs support in setting up, but also needs support in fully sweeping. That's exactly what my team is intended to do with dugs + the rest of the defensive core, but interestingly enough, the team doesn't actually win games this way as much as I intended, as weezing or other members also acts as more passive wincon at times.
Its also true that I originally built this team for ladder play and counterstyling, but this does not mean that the teams effectiveness is solely limited to these areas, and further testing has revealed to me that it can function well outside of the ladder meta against the general metagame and against competent opponents. This is where the difference between me and everyone else lies, because I have actually played with this team much more than anyone else. I definitely need to test it more however, and in no way is it perfect, which is why I posted it here, in hopes to garner some discussion about the team. Thanks for the post though llamas, I appreciate the honest and straightforward (but not aggressive) discussion you brought up.
As a "side note", it'd be great if other people could discuss their thoughts on the other team as well, as slurmz and I have been the only ones to do so, and we both probably want to modify the team and make it a bit better, which this would help with.
