ORAS UU Rating League

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IronBullet

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So you think you can rate as well as our badged UU TRs? This is your chance to prove it in our Rating League!
The success of the OU league and the abundance of promising UU raters out there was our main motivation behind starting this up. The aim is to offer a good platform for aspiring UU raters to test their skills against official raters, iron out any kinks in their rating and put them on the path towards qualifying for the badge themselves.

The league will work just like our Team Rating Competitions. You will face off against one of our TRs in a rating contest. A jury will pick the team to be rated. Within a certain timeframe and under certain conditions which will be picked by the Team Rater, you will both have to finish your rates and submit them the jury. If your rate has at least the same quality as the badged rater, then you win and proceed to face the next rater in the league. If you lose, the jury will give you feedback on your rate and advice on how you can improve going forward.

Requirements
To sign up, you have to have shown a general interest in rating, for example by rating teams on the forums or on PS, or by participating in projects such as Rating Practice Teams and Rating Basics. You also need to have attained a reasonable quality of rating. If you apply, we will decide whether you fulfil the requirements.

Prizes
  • Beating each league member will count as one rate towards the Team Rater badge.
  • If you have enough posts in the RMT forum and win this league, you will be honoured with the Team Rater badge
    . Performing well in general against league members will also earn you more consideration for it.
  • Beating the champion makes you the new champion and earns you an entry into the Hall of Fame!
Champion

IronBullet


The League

Cynde | Kreme | Sun | Shiba | Killintime


Jury/Subs: Kreme | Cynde | Shiba

You have to beat three league members to fight the champion.

The league will be set up differently for each challenger. You will be provided more information regarding this once your challenge has been accepted.

PM Cynde and IronBullet if you're ready and believe that you fulfil the requirements!
you really thought someone would make it?
 

Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
We'll be accepting Killintime this round

The pairing is: Killintime vs Sun

Tornadus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Superpower
- Iron Tail
- Hurricane
- Grass Knot

Tornadus is the team's main wallbreaker and supports my main cleaner, Heracross well as with Iron Tail it's able to lure in common answers to Heracross like Sylveon. Superpower allows it to hit Empoleon. Grass Knot allows it to hit water types like Swampert and Hurricane is it's primary stab move that allows it to deal a lot of damage to the opponent. The EV spread is given in order to maximise it's special attacking capabilities as it doesn't need the atk to beat the mons it needs to with physical moves.

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

My next choice was Heracross. It's the team's main cleaner with Moxie and Choice Scarf. I gave it Choice Scarf because I wanted some speed outside of Mega Sceptile. Megahorn and Close Combat are STAB moves that cover each other well. Earthquake allows it to hit Fire types like Entei and Poison types like Nidoqueen. Stone Edge allows it to hit pokemon that can switch in on the remainder of its moves such as Crobat.

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 224 SpD / 44 Spe
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Defog
- Scald

Empoleon is my Rocks setter and Hazards remover. It's specially defensive in order to take hits from pokemon like Hydreigon, Sylveon a lot better. Knock Off allows it to remove certain items like leftovers from Sylveon which helps facilitate a Heracross sweep in addition to getting rid of things like choice scarf from Hydreigon so Heracross and Sceptile can outspeed it.

Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 96 Def / 164 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic
- Flamethrower
- Morning Sun

Arcanine is also specially defensive in order to switch into pokemon such as specs Sylveon and Choice Scarf Hydreigon. Will-o-Wisp allows it to buffer it's physical defence by crippling physical attackers and has dual status in order to lure in bulky waters and bulky psychic types like cresselia. Morning Sun is it's method of recovery and it has Flamethrower as a STAB attacking option.

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Hyper Voice

Sylveon is my cleric with wish allowing it to provide empoleon with longevity. It has protect to help scout against pokemon like hydreigon and receive wishes safely. Heal Bell allows it to remove any status that is inflicting the team while Hyper Voice is it's method of attacking. It's physically defensive as Sylveon is the best this team has to answer fighting types like Conkeldurr and Heracross.

Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Energy Ball
- Dragon Pulse
- Focus Blast

Sceptile is my Mega Pokemon and is the teams primary method of beating bulky water types. It has protect to help beat 2 attacks Gyarados. Energy Ball as a strong Grass Stab that allows it to beat water types. Dragon Pulse allows it to hit the dragon types that resist grass and is another method of reliably getting of damage. Focus Blast allows it to hit the steel types that resist its Grass and Dragon Stab. It's given a modest nature to hit as hard as possible while still maximising speed.


happy rating! Your deadline is 11/12/16
 

Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Killintime vs Sun
Jury Decision
Killintime passes to the next round

The jury felt that both Killintime and Sun had a similar, and accurate threat appraisal and accounted for many of the threats the team faced. The jury decided that in terms of covering threats, Killintime did a better job even though he required more changes in order to do so. Sun was unable to cover a certain threats that the team faced such as Mega Beedrill and Mamoswine. However, both rates failed to cover threatening Pokemon such as Entei in an adequate manner and even exacerbated the weakness. So while both rates had flaws, since Killintime was able to be more efficient and cover a greater span of threats than Sun, Killintime progresses to the next round.
 
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Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
We're accepting Sacri'

Sacri' vs Manipulative

Crobat @ Sky Plate
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Crobat is this teams Beedrill answer, one of the team's fairy resists and the team's method of hazard control. It has Sky Plate and maximum attack and speed to ensure it hits as hard and as fast as possible. It's one of the team's method of pressuring Celebi. Crobat helps Sylveon in being another fighting answer that is able to scout for Poison-type coverage on Pokemon like Conkeldurr. It helps break down Grass-types in tandem with Entei

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed

Entei is this team's primary wallbreaker and facilitates the breaking down of Grass-types that further aids Suicune winning. Entei allows this team to muscle past Pokemon such as Sylveon which it otherwise would have a lot of trouble doing. The set is pretty straight forward Sacred Fire being the primary method of wearing down defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia. Stone Edge covering Chandelure and Extreme Speed allowing Entei to pick off Pokemon such as Mega Sharpedo.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Scald

Suicune is what this team was build around being the primary win-condition this team has and also the best this team has for defensive teams. Substitute / Protect are the crux of this set facilitating scouting and PP stalling which allows Suicune to set up / get past defensive Pokemon. Calm Mind boosts its special attack allowing it to sweep. Scald is its primary method of attacking allowing Suicune to fish for burns against some of its checks like Whimsicott making them easier to beat in the long run. 252 Hp provides 101 HP subs letting it beat blissey. 216 speed and timid nature lets it outspeed mamoswine.

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Hyper Voice

Sylveon is this team's Cleric. It keeps Suicune healthy enough to handle Pokemon like Entei which is vital as this team can have a lot of trouble with Entei should Suicune / Entei / Krookodile taking too much of a beating and since Suicune doesn't have reliable recovery it's important that the team have a method of keeping those Pokemon healthy. Wish / Protect facilitate this while providing Sylveon a method of reliably receiving its own Wishes. It has mixed defences in order to take on Mega Sceptile / Mega Blastoise a bit better.

Krookodile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Earthquake

Krookodile is the team's Stealth Rock setter and in tandem with Rocky Helmet it's able to beat most hazard removers like Forretress. Knock Off and Earthquake are the STAB options allowing Krook to pressure Psychic-types and Fire types like Entei. Taunt allowing Krookodile to whittle down Snorlax which is greatly appreciated by this team.

Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Dragon Pulse
- Leaf Storm

Sceptile is how this team pressures Bulky waters. Giga Drain and Leaf storm accomplish this, while one provides pseudo-recovery allowing Sceptile to maintain some form of longevity and Leaf Storm doing the actual breaking of water types. HP Bug was given to this as the team was rather weak to Celebi. Dragon Pulse is the dragon stab letting it hit Hydreigon among others. A Modest Nature was given to ensure it hits as hard as possible.


happy rating! deadline is 22/12/16.

starting this round we'll be making rates public.
 
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IronBullet

Astronomy Domine
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Thanks to everyone who's signed up! Glad to see the enthusiasm. Keep them coming :)

R2: Killintime vs Cynde

Props to Kreme for the team:
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain
- Psychic

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Wing Attack
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Krookodile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Dazzling Gleam
- Magnet Rise

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Wave
- Toxic Spikes

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Good luck guys! Please submit your rate to Kreme by 24 Dec.
 

Kreme

You might be right but you're not correct.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Sacri' vs Manipulative
Jury Decision
Sacri' passes to the next round

The jury felt that Sacri' had the edge over Manipulative in this round through a very small margin and thus proceeds to the next round of the rating league. While both raters had identified quite a few threats, such as Entei and Mega Beedrill, and and dealt with them decently, Sacri managed to improve upon the team with minimal changes, as well as ensuring the team didn't open up any weaknesses, which the jury felt Manipulative ended up doing, as his changes made the team weaker to bulky Psychic-types, i.e Cresselia. As most of the other criteria looked at for both rates were of similar quality, the lack of opening more weaknesses while covering most of the same threats and having minimal changes gave Sacri' the edge in this matchup.

Hey there! As expected from you guys this team seems really solid. I feel like there is not much to be fixed, as far as the team composition goes. The sets, on the other hand, aren't all optimal for this particular team so this is what this rate will aim to fix.

• While I understand the appeal Sky Plate offers, I feel like changing it to Itemless Crobat would benefit this team a lot. As the only ground immunity around, I feel like it is necessary to keep Crobat healthy, which implies the recoil coming along the strong brave birds can end up being a pain. With that in mind, I also suggest the use of Haze over U-Turn. This would help Crobat a lot in order to check fighting types more efficently such as Cobalion or Conkeldurr. The spread for this particular set is calculated to remain faster than Houndoom-Mega/Absol Mega which can also turn out to be threats under the right circumstances the remainings EVs are invested in HP & Defense for the afformentioned reasons.

• I really do like the pressure applied on stall by this suicune set. That being said, stall isn't the most common style right now and I feel like this team needs to entirely exploit Suicune's defensive utility. This is why you should change Suicune's nature to Bold and also change the movest to run Rest over Sub and Roar over Protect. Entei, Mamoswine & HC Aerodactyl have the potential to be really threatening, Rest and Bold help to keep them in check. I felt like keeping Calm Mind was important as Suicune still needs to force bulky pokémons such as Cresselia or Sylveon to switch.

Optional changes

• Despites the use of Calm Sylveon, I still feel like special wallbreakers such as Kyurem have the potential to be really annoying. Using Florges over Sylveon would help in that regard, it learns Synthesis which means it doesn't have to use Wish + Protect to remain healthy, that's particulary helpful in order to not waste momentum.

Crobat
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Defog
- Haze

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Calm Mind
- Roar
- Scald

Florges (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Moonblast
- Synthesis
- Aromatherapy


Hope I helped!


Crobat @ Sky Plate
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Crobat is this teams Beedrill answer, one of the team's fairy resists and the team's method of hazard control. It has Sky Plate and maximum attack and speed to ensure it hits as hard and as fast as possible. It's one of the team's method of pressuring Celebi. Crobat helps Sylveon in being another fighting answer that is able to scout for Poison-type coverage on Pokemon like Conkeldurr. It helps break down Grass-types in tandem with Entei

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge
- Extreme Speed

Entei is this team's primary wallbreaker and facilitates the breaking down of Grass-types that further aids Suicune winning. Entei allows this team to muscle past Pokemon such as Sylveon which it otherwise would have a lot of trouble doing. The set is pretty straight forward Sacred Fire being the primary method of wearing down defensive Pokemon such as Cresselia. Stone Edge covering Chandelure and Extreme Speed allowing Entei to pick off Pokemon such as Mega Sharpedo.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Protect
- Scald

Suicune is what this team was build around being the primary win-condition this team has and also the best this team has for defensive teams. Substitute / Protect are the crux of this set facilitating scouting and PP stalling which allows Suicune to set up / get past defensive Pokemon. Calm Mind boosts its special attack allowing it to sweep. Scald is its primary method of attacking allowing Suicune to fish for burns against some of its checks like Whimsicott making them easier to beat in the long run. 252 Hp provides 101 HP subs letting it beat blissey. 216 speed and timid nature lets it outspeed mamoswine.

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Hyper Voice

Sylveon is this team's Cleric. It keeps Suicune healthy enough to handle Pokemon like Entei which is vital as this team can have a lot of trouble with Entei should Suicune / Entei / Krookodile taking too much of a beating and since Suicune doesn't have reliable recovery it's important that the team have a method of keeping those Pokemon healthy. Wish / Protect facilitate this while providing Sylveon a method of reliably receiving its own Wishes. It has mixed defences in order to take on Mega Sceptile / Mega Blastoise a bit better.

Krookodile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Knock Off
- Earthquake

Krookodile is the team's Stealth Rock setter and in tandem with Rocky Helmet it's able to beat most hazard removers like Forretress. Knock Off and Earthquake are the STAB options allowing Krook to pressure Psychic-types and Fire types like Entei. Taunt allowing Krookodile to whittle down Snorlax which is greatly appreciated by this team.

Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpD
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Bug]
- Dragon Pulse
- Leaf Storm

Sceptile is how this team pressures Bulky waters. Giga Drain and Leaf storm accomplish this, while one provides pseudo-recovery allowing Sceptile to maintain some form of longevity and Leaf Storm doing the actual breaking of water types. HP Bug was given to this as the team was rather weak to Celebi. Dragon Pulse is the dragon stab letting it hit Hydreigon among others. A Modest Nature was given to ensure it hits as hard as possible.


So one of the first things that I noticed is that this team has next to nothing for CurseLax, especially since MScept is passing up on Focus Blast. This team also has almost no way of pressuring stall since it's not running CB Krookodile and everything else is fairly easy to straight up wall. As such, I would recommend replacing Krookodile with BU Conk. This change gives you a Fighting-type to deal with Snorlax much more efficiently. It also gives you a mon that puts a very solid amount of pressure on more defensively inclined teams. Additionally, it gives you a much more reliable wincon than the Suicune set that this team is currently running. Here's the set:



Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch

To fix up some holes that opened up from the previous change, I recommend replacing Suicune with Swampert. What this change does is give you a new Stealth Rock user, as you lost yours by replacing Krookodile. It also gives you back your natural Electric-immunity, which is nice since sometimes evolving Sceptile, especially when it's running Modest, can be a pain. Swampert gives you a solid switch into Entei (that Suicune set didn't) while also giving you a phazer with Roar, something that the team was lacking before. The loss of a wincon isn't so bad here, since we supplied the team with another one in Conk with the previous change. Here's the set:



Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Atk
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Stealth Rock

Lastly, I would just like to help optimize Crobat's moveset. Since Crobat's current moveset doesn't really pressure the most common Fairy-types as much as you would like it to, the team is pretty much relying solely on Entei to take care of Fairies. Especially on a team that's as vulnerable to fairies as this one, that's not ideal. What I would suggest to fix this is replacing U-turn with Taunt. Sure, you may lose a nice way to grab momentum with this change, but you also gain a much more solid way of putting Sylveon and Florges in check by preventing them from using Wish with Taunt. I would also suggest replacing Brave Bird with Acrobatics and getting rid of the item. Firstly, this will give you an additional switch into Knock Off, which is always nice. The team is also quite weak to Mega Beedrill apart from Crobat, so you want to make sure that Crobat counteracts MBee as much as it can. If you keep the item, you're still quite vulnerable to it because switching into Knock Off + Stealth Rock leaves you definitely in range of Poison Jab. However, even with losing the item, you're still vulnerable to high rolls of MBee's Knock Off and Poison Jab in conjunction with Stealth Rock. I would suggest going with a more bulky spread of 248 HP / 116 Atk / 144 Spe. This spread is meant to outspeed Whimsicott and maximize Crobat's HP stat while investing the rest into its Attack. On top of making the team much safer against MBee, the extra bulk allows Crobat to also be more efficient as a Stallbreaker. And of course, all of that investment into bulk will let Crobat tank hits much better all around.

I hope this helped!
 
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Kreme

You might be right but you're not correct.
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Killintime vs Cynde
Jury Decision
Redo

So Cynde had some things come up for him recently thus he was unable to send in a rate and proceeded to take a small break and in the meantime I'm taking over most of his duties, including league position, temporarily. However, to make it fair for killintime and everyone else involved I'll be giving him a redo with another member while his rate will be shown below. Feel free to berate his use of horrible nicknames and monologue.

So I saw the team and I didn't need to read the part that it was written by I could smell the anti-triggering play style of yours from a mile away. Sorry about handing this in last second by the way I have exams man and I just realized like an hour ago I had to do this stuff so I put down my books and turned on my laptop to type it out.

Alright so I will start this off by writing down what I thought were weaknesses this team carried:

  • Gyarados at +1 is unstoppable and it can easily achieve this on 2-3 mons depending on the situation.
  • Opposing krook is a pain in the ass
  • Conkeldurr can easily punch holes in the team just by clicking stab with celebi forced to check so many of conks partners.
  • Opposing aero check is hoping he doesn't spam EQ+ace if you haven't megad your own aero for a speed tie.
  • You hate the nidos
It's definitely a standard spike stack balance I kind of hate this play style since what works is pretty rigid in options, but I guess it makes it easier to rate.
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain
- Psychic

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Wing Attack
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Krookodile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Dazzling Gleam
- Magnet Rise

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Wave
- Toxic Spikes

Chandelure @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick


Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Giga Drain
- Psychic

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Wing Attack
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail

Tucker was (Swampert) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Scald

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Block

RIGHT (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 104 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Acid Spray

NINA (Hydreigon) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn



↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓


-So first thing I wanted to remove the gyara weakness and I went about this in multiple ways:
----------->


Tucker was (Swampert) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Roar
- Scald


  • Alright so I tried experimenting with sub or tect celebi, but it still left us quite bare to mega aero, opposing celebi, and it was doing a bit too much on its own. I felt like we could make things easier by simply adding a pert over krook to deal with all the issues at once while fixing the celebi issue with simply keeping shadow ball and removing chande for another mon to pressure the onion. I also felt like with the nature of the team we could keep hazards up with the sheer amount of hazard users to begin with. The roar allows you to deal with most gyara sets by simply shifting it out for more stealth rock damage later down the line as well as being slower than what can take care of it.
-Next change I made is spread change to support the team a bit more since we have a dreigon:


RIGHT (Tentacruel) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA / 104 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Scald
- Toxic Spikes
- Acid Spray


  • With dreigon in the back its not so important that we out speed krook but the bulk could be helpful. The spread out paces gyarados and in turn mamo, chande, etc allowing you to pick them off if need be without being forced to throw in pert. The spread also has 8 sp.attack which guarantees the 2hko on entei with scald. The extra bulk I felt was necessary in taking on faries since they are a pain in the ass and taking less from hyper voice is always nice.
-Moving on the final mon change is over chande:
----------->


NINA (Hydreigon) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- U-turn


  • Now I am completely understanding the reason why chande is on this team, namely being your spin blocker. Now while this team now lacks a spin blocker I felt like chandelure was the odd one out on this team since honestly forre can just click volt switch then pursuit with a krook in the back. Your team mostly punishes spinners anyways by allowing you to scald burn them and continue setting spikes up, since honestly what is a passive spinner doing to pert or cruel? If it was cruel as a spinner hes clicking scald on your chande anyways so I don't see the big deal here. By running hydreigon we get a method of revenging coba, tentacruel, aero..look hydreigon is doing its whole balanced thing so I could list half the tier with this one. I just needed to give you a decent switch in to powerful knocks from mons like crawdaunt or krook without depriving the team of offensive pressure.
-Another set change I make is on aero:

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Pursuit
- Wing Attack
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail


  • I run aquatail>EQ on this team since it allows you to KO nidoqueen with just 1 spike up at a 50% chance giving it less of a chance to do anything versus your team which is important. I think losing eq is fine for the most part since cruel is bulkier for coba and you have gained a pert as well its not setting up on much without taking serious damage.
-Final change I made was:


Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Block


  • Now with keys having to check sceptile and dreigon I do believe we are better off just running Sp.def to be on the safe side of things. I have given it heal block in order to fix our conkeldurr problem by simply using the move drain punch fails (interesting mechanic tbh). We wont be needing it to check krook and stuff anymore so no serious need for the magnet rise and defence to be honest.
I think that's the best of what I could do to try and fix this team without changing it too much (and I apologize if I have triggered kreme). Good luck to cyndequil I know he is a skilled builder and has about 200x more teams than I do lmao.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kreme

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Sacri' vs Shiba

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Tail

I started this team off with the aim of building around Lucario, specifically a Swords Dance variant. I decided to do as such due to the Pokemon being largely fallen from grace during late ORAS and it was a good setup sweeper to begin building an offense team around. The set is fairly standard with Iron Tail being used in the last slot as it felt like a good all-around option to help deal with Fairy-types and a lot of neutral targets like Cresselia and Nidoqueen.

Absol @ Absolite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Blast

Next up I decided to use all-out attacking Mega Absol to partner with Lucario as my particular set on Lucario meant Pursuit support would be required to ensure I could get past Slowking and Chandelure among others relatively easily. Fire Blast helps smack Klefki and the like while Knock Off and Sucker Punch are standard on most Absol sets.

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

At this point I lacked entry hazards so I decided upon Mamoswine for my entry hazard setter as it also gave me another priority user, which is a blessing for offense, while also acting as a Ground-type to further ensure VoltTurn wouldn't be too problematic. The set is standard for the most part.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam

I wanted a secondary wincon that could better fare against most stall variants so I came upon Celebi. Celebi also acts as a good status absorber due to Natural Cure. Celebi also helped with my issue against most bulky Water-types which could deal with the first three members of my team quite well while also providing a much needed Fighting-resistance and pivot.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Sludge Wave

As Klefki proved to be extremely prevalent late ORAS, I decided to use an entry hazard remover in Tentacruel to ensure I wouldn't lose to opposing offense by virtue of being worn down easily by Spikes. This proved to be an issue due to every team member thus far being grounded with none having any options for recovery bar Celebi. Entry hazards also proved to be a massive pain when facing stall archetypes as they could easily outlast the team members as it stood with good use of pivoting and entry hazard control.

Tornadus @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Superpower
- Iron Tail

Lastly, I wanted a strong wallbreaker that was immune to Ground so I settled upon Tornadus, as it had those aforementioned qualities. Tornadus also provided me with a good way to more or less lure in some annoying Pokemon towards the team, such as Blissey and Diancie. Tornadus's powerful Hurricane also meant that it would be extremely easy to wear down bulky walls that could give me trouble like Mandibuzz.


Happy New Year and good luck to both users! Deadline's on the 10th of January.
 

IronBullet

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R2 Rematch: Killintime vs Kreme

Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Destiny Bond

I wanted to build the team around Mega Sharpedo, which I thought was very under prepared despite its potency. The moveset is fairly standard, but I opt for Destiny Bond as the 4th moveslot to take out something like Florges for Heracross to sweep later. Jolly Nature is prefetred to outspeed M-Aero at +1, Entei, and Krook in base form.


Dragalge @ Draco Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic Spikes

Dragalge is a great partner for Sharpedo and the second part of the offensive core I wanted to build around. It sets T-Spikes that put its counters on a timer, and it easily beats bulky Grasses that wall Sharpedo. Draco and Sludge Wave are two powerful STABs boosted by Adaptability, Toxic Spikes wear down Sharpedo's checks, and Dragon Tail prevents me from being setup fodder at -2.


Heracross @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Megahorn

SD Heracross comes in to abuse Empoleons switching into Dragalge, as well as smacking Steel-types like M-Aggron and Forry which can tank hits from Sharpedo and Dragalge. Heracross hard checks a plethora of annoying mons for offense, like Cresselia, Suicune, Porygon2, Alomomola, and Snorlax. The set is fairly standard, with dual STABs + Knock Off as coverage.


Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Seed Bomb
- Baton Pass
- Recover

SD Pass Celebi complements Sharpedo very nicely by setting up on pretty much all of its checks, like the aforementioned bulky Grasses and Waters. If its unsafe to pass to Sharpedo because the opponent is staying in with a Chesnaught or something similar, I can just pass to Entei instead and nuke the switch in with a +2 Sacred Fire. Max Attack and Speed let me smack things like Krook to avoid Pursuit mindgames while also being able to Baton Pass out of a LO or Specs Hydreigon.


Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Roar

I was looking terribly weak to a bunch of threats like M-Aero, Entei, M-Bee VoltTurn, Cobalion, etc, and every team needs Stealth Rock. That's where Swampert comes in, which despite its passivity, finds its place on a number of offensive teams due to its sheer bulk, typing, and Scald. The set is as standard as it gets.


Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Stone Edge

Something to take advantage of Fairies that switch into Sharpedo and Heracross and to provide priority would round the team up nicely. That left me with Entei, which gives a powerful ESpeed, Fairy check, and a soft Cobalion check. Like many other mons on this team, the set is standard.

Good luck guys! Please submit your rate to me by 15 Jan.
 

Cynde

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getting back on track

Shiba vs Sacri'
Jury Decision
Sacri' does not pass

The jury decided Shiba’s rate was superior as it fixed more fundamental issues such as match ups against defensive teams, weakness to crobat and retained pursuit utility with mega aero. Shiba even plugs the psychic weakness that was left by replacing tornadus with hydreigon with further improved match up against defensive teams. The primary difference in Shiba's and Sacri's rate was Sacri's made the team a bigger liability to defensive teams and made the team more passive with his swampert whereas shiba managed to cut even against defensive teams and his rate did not result in the team becoming more passive in any regard. Sacri was basically unable to fix the fundamental issues the team faced in our opinion. It is because of this that Sacri does not advance.

Hello there! I have always been a huge fan of Absol so it's always nice to see it getting some use on offensive teams such as this one. While the team looks like it has the tools to heavily pressure most pokémons of this metagame, it still has a lot of trouble versus some really common offensive threats so this is what this rate will aim to fix.

• The first time that came to my mind as a massive threat to your team was Hydreigon, all sets have the potential to get a kill each time they come in. Mega Sceptile is also annoying, priorities do help versus it but if played decently it'll also get a kill at the very least. In order to fix this weakness without ruining the offensive team momentum this team offers I believe using Whimsicott over Celebi would work really well. Priority encore allows it play around a lot of threats, on top of checking dragons & Krookodile pretty well it can also shut down some other threats such as Gyarados or even Sharpedo on the turn it uses protect.

• With Whimsicott around to keep Dragons in check I feel like using Swamper over Mamoswine would benefit this team a lot. The main reason behind this change is the teams really important weakness to Entei. Espeed is incredibly annoying to deal with late game and something either drops to Sacred Fire in tenta's case. Another huge threat to the team covered by this change is Aerodactyl Mega which also had the potential to run through the team once Mamoswine was down.

Optional change
• Although Roar is overall more consistent using HP Electric over it on Swampert would increase the match up vs Gyarados a lot so if you feel like the team remains too weak to it feel free to use this.

sets (close)

Whimsicott @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Encore
- U-turn
- Energy Ball

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 240 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Roar/Hidden Power [Electric]
- Earthquake



Hi, cool looking team! It just seems weak to a few common things such as Hydreigon and Flying-types in general. I just have a few recommendations for it to make it fare better against these kinds of teams.

  • First off, I would recommed Mega Aerodactyl over Mega Absol. Reason being is because without a good flying resist, very fast Pokemon like Crobat or opposing Mega Aeros can run through your team with ease. Here's the set I'd recommend, it allows you to keep your Pursuit trapper as well.
    calc
    Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 216 Atk / 40 Def / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Wing Attack
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit
    - Roost
  • Next, I'd recommend Whimsicott over Celebi. This is because the team lacks a good Hydreigon check, which seems to always be a problem for offense in general. If teams like these don't pack a check, it can easily fold to Choice Scarf Hydreigon. Here's the set I'd recommend, it's an offensive one so you can smack stuff like Cobalion as well, which is a small problem as well.
    Whimsicott @ Leftovers / Pxie Plate
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Moonblast
    - Giga Drain
    - Encore
    - U-turn
  • Lastly, making these changes made you a bit weaker to stall in general. That's why I'd recommend using stallbreaker Hydreigon over Tornadus. Making this change also creates a nice offensive core with Whimsicott and Lucario, all having great typing synergy together. It also keeps the role of "strong wallbreaker immune to Ground" which was previously fulfilled by Torn. Here's the standard stallbreaker set for your team:
    Hydreigon @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Taunt
    - Roost
    - Dark Pulse
    - Draco Meteor
That's it from me! Hope you consider my recommendations and good luck with your team :toast:

import (close)

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Tail

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 216 Atk / 40 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wing Attack
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Roost

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Giga Drain
- Encore
- U-turn

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Sludge Wave

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Roost
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
 

Cynde

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Killintime vs Kreme
Jury Decision
Killintime advances

The jury felt that killintime's rate was better as it covers Hydreigon with Klefki and Mega Sceptile which were both massive problems and Kreme's was unable to do so as Whimsicott tends to be a very frail answer to dragons that gets worn down rapidly. Kreme's changes made the team's match up to Roar Suicune relatively worse considering it's reliance on switcheroo. Kreme was able to maintain a more offensive nature of playing the team however, Killintime while including the addition of a defensive Pokemon was able to alleviate passivity by incorporating spikes into the team which further pressures defensive teams. Killintime's team was in general able to pressure stall more than Kreme's was able to. Killintime's formatting was also superior and it is because of all these factors that Killintime advances to the next round.

I saw the team and probably had about 4-5 aneurysms, no worries though! I shall persevere and rate this team to the best of my abilities!

Now right off the bat there were quite a few issues just by having an overall look at the team:

  • Baton pass is banned making celebis set pretty sub-par
  • No hydreigon switch-in with a whopping 4 mons that can let it in with only 1 of them having a way of severely punishing it (Entei,swampert, celebi, sharpedo), the other 2 can simply be revenge killed by it.
  • Teams fastest mon is sharpedo mega evolved meaning its severely beaten down by fast mons in general.
  • Teams opposing celebi answer is entei which easily dies to +2 psychic after rocks.
The team itself is offensive but has no speed presence meaning it can't check mons with offensive pressure alone so we will need to find a way around that. The mons you don't appear to want to get rid of are sharpedo and dragalge. Which drives me insane since honestly the whole team gets better with nidoqueen>dragalge. ("I wanted to build the team around Mega Sharpedo, Dragalge is a great partner for Sharpedo and the second part of the offensive core I wanted to build around.")
↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓


-Ill rate this with the thought process that you will be keeping dragalge so first off we need to fix this serious speed control and hydreigon issue:

keys (close)

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Dazzling Gleam
- Magnet Rise
- Thunder Wave



    • Now by running keys we solve an enormous amount of issues in the fact you can para faster mons that threaten your team, rise on krook/mamoswine, beat hydreigon, and offers you a secondary fairy switch in to relieve rocks dmg from entei, also provides you with an answer to mega sceptile. Now I understand this was your cune check, but I have seen to fixing that scenario with the second change.
-The next change is fixing celebis banned set to:

celebi (close)

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Shadow Ball
- Psychic




    • I couldn't find a way to make your opposing celebi match-up easier while also dealing with suicune, so I had to force klefki into the team as well as change sharpedos move set a bit in order to have a better time versus hydreigon. The nasty plot celebi set will let you check mega swampert, suicune, and deal with opposing celebi lacking shadow ball (worst case you have to go into pedo to beat the celebi).
-Final change was made to pedo:

pedo (open)




    • Now from the way the team is you should really maximise your efforts into forcing a pedo beat down rather than giving it d-bond. If we run ice fang mons like hydreigon can't get in our way with just a tiny bit prior damage. With this we now aim to get as many hazards as we can up since the team itself has rocks, spikes, toxic spikes in its arsenal, then aim for a strong pedo slam. Even if the pedo fails to sweep it should do some good core breaking for the celebi to finish up afterwards.
Honestly again I would like to make that dragalge into a nidoqueen, but if you want a draco meteor user who is slow and rarely gets nothing more than a trade at times (and still gets 2hkoed by most fighting types) then so be it. I hope the changes aren't too much and I don't know how truth will handle it since I know dragalge will most definitely trigger him as much as it did me. May the best rater win.


  • First thing I noticed is that the team is lacking some Speed, and since Celebi's set is banned in the tier, I suggest changing Celebi to Whimsicott, as this also provides crucial counterplay towards Hydreigon which is a huge threat to this team, taking advantage of many members, including Sharpedo and Dragalge, to wreak havoc considering the team lacks a solid Dragon-type switch in. Whimsicott also brings some aforementioned Speed to the team. I decided upon a Choice Specs variant in order to help not take too much away from the stall matchup by being able to cripple walls.
  • Next up, I recommend changing Heracross to Tornadus. The latter provides a secondary wallbreaker that has outside utility in being able to provide a much needed Ground-immunity. A Taunt variant is in use to put more pressure on stall to make up for the loss of Heracross while also preventing opposing entry hazards and entry hazard removal. It also helps prevent Pokemon from using recovery moves, which can go a long way in improving the matchup against balance and stall. Prankster is there in order to ensure you can prevent a Defog from Crobat and such but Defiant can also be used in order to capitalize on the hazard stacking from Dragalge and Swampert. I've got Knock Off in the last slot as there wasn't a user on the move already on the team and it helps cripple Bronzong among others which goes a long way in helping Dragalge and Whimsicott break down teams utilizing the Pokemon as their main switch-in. Knock Off could be replaced by Sludge Wave or Iron Tail, however, if the benefit of being able to severely damage Fairy-types be of more use.
  • I recommend changing the EVs on Dragalge from 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe to 188 HP / 252 SpA / 68 Spe in order to use the EVs more efficiently. The spread I recommended allows Dragalge to outspeed up to Relaxed Swampert while still remaining fairly bulky.
  • With the removal of Heracross, Ice Fang over Destiny Bond on Sharpedo might be a good idea, as it allows you to nail Hydreigon, which is still a big threat, as well as weakened Chesnaught among others, allowing you to clean easier. Most of the things you could potentially lure in with Destiny Bond, like Florges, aren't as necessary to remove anymore due to aforementioned reasons so the ability to nail more targets should prove to be more beneficial in this iteration.
Sets (close)

Whimsicott @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- U-turn
- Switcheroo
- Giga Drain

Tornadus (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster / Defiant
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Taunt
- Knock Off / Sludge Wave / Iron Tail

Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Ice Fang

Dragalge @ Draco Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 188 HP / 252 SpA / 68 Spe
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Wave
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic Spikes
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cynde

toasty
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Round 3: Killintime vs Shiba

Aggron-Mega @ Aggronite
Ability: Filter
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Curse
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Heavy Slam

Aggron was the win condition I decided to build with since with a specially defensive set it's able to function as a very sturdy win condition and check pokemon like celebi with more comfort than the tank spread typically runs. with curse it's capable of becoming very threatening becoming effectively unkillable in conduction with filter. Rest and Sleep Talk give it longevity and remove passivity while sleeping. Heavy Slam was chosen as the offensive move as it's heavier than most of the metagame.

Toxicroak @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Low Kick
- Swords Dance
- Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch

The Aggron set tends to have trouble with water types which made Toxicroak the next partner. With Dry Skin and Swords Dance it is able to pressure most water types and Low Kick allows it to pressure Pokemon that can check Aggron in the short term like opposing Mega Aggron or Swampert. Gunk Shot is stab move that lets it beat fairies. Sucker punch is priority that allows it to manoeuvre around Celebi for example.

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Defog

Empoleon is my Hazards remover. It's specially defensive in order to take hits from pokemon like Hydreigon, Sylveon a lot better. Knock Off allows it to cripple anything that tries to switch in on it and helps it check offensive pokemon such as specs sylveon. Toxic is there to help the team beat Cresselia.

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Roar

I was looking terribly weak to a bunch of threats like Entei, M-Bee VoltTurn, Cobalion, etc, and every team needs Stealth Rock. That's where Swampert comes in, which despite its passivity, finds its place on a number of offensive teams due to its sheer bulk, typing, and Scald. The set is as standard as it gets.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- U-turn
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor

The team was looking really slow so Scarf Hydreigon finds a place here in order to provide speed to the team and soft check Gyarados and Celebi in addition to being a general good Pokemon to have against offensive teams due to strong STAB Draco Meteor and coverage to punish anything that switches into it. The set is once again, standard.

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge

Something to take advantage of Steels that switch into Aggron and to provide priority would round the team up nicely. It also wears down checks to it with Sacred Fire. That left me with Entei, which gives a powerful ESpeed, Fairy check, and a soft Cobalion check. Like many other mons on this team, the set is standard.


deadline is 5/2/17

edit: 200th post. huzzah.
 
Last edited:

Kreme

You might be right but you're not correct.
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We're accepting sniper next. He begins his challenge against Cynde, good luck to both of them!

sniperr vs Cynde

Cobalion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Rock Polish
- Close Combat
- Iron Head

I wanted to build the team around dual dance Cobalion, a rather underrated threat that could devastate unprepared teams of all playstyles, ranging from stall to offense, should its checks be either weakened or removed. While many may prefer a normal Swords Dance variant, I like the added benefit Rock Polish brings to the table in terms of functioning as a cleaner against offense which is usually unexpected. A Life Orb helps its sweeping capabilities by boosting its overall damage output to ensure Cobalion is able to achieve a good amount of OHKOes after boosting, such as against Mega Blastoise after Stealth Rock.

Krookodile @ Dread Plate
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock

Cresselia, Slowking, Chandelure, Tentacruel; those are but a few checks to my Cobalion set that are the main stops I'd wish to remove before attempting to sweep, making Krookodile an ideal partner, as it has access to Pursuit, removing or weakening most of the aforementioned checks while also being able to force them out by virtue of its natural bulk, Speed, and raw damage output in tandem with Dread Plate. I've decided upon this variant as it allows me to utilize a strong Pursuit while also being able to act as the Stealth Rock setter, a role that some may expect Cobalion to have in this core.

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam

Next up, I noticed I was quite weak against bulky Water-types, as both of my previous Pokemon weren't able to adequately deal with any of the bulky Water-types in the tier 1v1 and seemed to be easy switch-in opportunities for most of them. Therefore, Celebi seemed to be the ideal step forward, as it dealt with the aforementioned bulky Water-type issue, while also providing a lot of needed utility in a solid stallbreaker, secondary win condition, and a much needed Fighting-type resist.

Aerodactyl @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Wing Attack
- Roost
- Pursuit

Looking back on my former three Pokemon, I realized I was most definitely lacking in Speed thus I decided upon adding Mega Aerodactyl to the team. Mega Aerodactyl provided the Speed I desired while also being able to function as a great check to a myriad of threats including Mega Beedrill. I decided upon a Pursuit variant as dual Pursuit users would make it much easier to remove Cobalion checks.

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge

I still thought my team was rather lacking in the priority department seeing as how I had no users of priority moves thus far, so I put Entei on the team, as it was a very strong priority user that also acted as a much needed wallbreaker that boasted immediate power as opposed to only doing so after a boost. Entei also paired well with Cobalion, as it could easily weaken many of its checks by virtue of Sacred Fire's raw damage and the burns it spreads.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Wave
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray

Lastly, seeing as how I lacked it previously and I have two Rock-weak Pokemon, I wanted an entry hazard remover that was relatively fast and provided a secondary Fairy-resist. Tentacruel fit those categories quite well so it was chosen over other options like Empoleon. The set is fairly standard with maybe the exception of Sludge Wave which I decided upon in order to do more immediate damage to Fairy-types and be less reliant on Hydro Pump for damage.


Deadline is on 14/2/17.
 

Cynde

toasty
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Killintime vs Shiba
Jury Decision
Killintime advances

This was a very close call. The jury felt that Killintime and Shiba had similar and accurate threat appraisal. The main thing that differentiated the rates was Shiba's weakness to water types such as Taunt Gyara, Mega Swampert, Milotic which was pretty much unmanageable and Killintime's weakness to Life Orb Hydreigon, both the mixed variants and the stall breaking ones. Killintime has a tougher match up against offence and Shiba has a harder time against stall. These two rates were extremely similar in quality barring the main differentiating factor. Killintime acknowledged the flaws in his rate whereas Shiba neglected to. Because they were weak to certain mons in two hugely different areas the jury has declared this round to be a tie and as a result Killintime advances!

Hi! Cool looking team you have here. It just seems weak to a couple things key things such as Fighting-types and opposing strong Ground-types like Krookodile. I just have a few recommendations that could help patch those weaknesses up.

  • First off, it seems like you have some redundancy with Aggron and Empoleon being on the same team, as both are specially defensive and having both makes you even weaker to Fighting-types. That's why I'd like to recommend Crobat over Empoleon. This gives you a solid fighting resist/ground immunity as well as a strong offensive presence. Here's the set I'd recommend:
    Crobat @ Sky Plate
    Ability: Infiltrator
    EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 180 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - U-turn / Taunt
    - Roost
    - Defog

    Taunt could be used to have a ~relatively better matchup vs stall, but U-turn is fine as well to bring in Entei safely on common switchins to bat like Doublade or Metagross
  • Next, I'd recommend Sylveon over Hydreigon. Replacing Empoleon made the team a bit weaker to opposing Hydreigons and it made it hard to break opposing Taunters like Mandibuzz or Sableye. Adding Sylveon also provides wish support for mons with not-so reliable recovery like Aggron and Swampert and also gives Heal Bell support for a resting Aggron. Here's the set I'd recommend, pretty much standard.
    Sylveon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pixilate
    EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hyper Voice
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Heal Bell
  • Lastly, I'd consider running Drain Punch over Low Kick on Toxicroak. Though I do get that Low Kick does more to things like Mega Pert, I would always prefer the recovery on a Water-type check like that even with Wish support in the back
And that's about it from me, I hope you consider my recommendations and find they improved the team more from a defensive standpoint. Good luck!


Sup guys! So for this matchup I have got Ryan versus Ryan so may the better ryan win! To get right into the team I highlighted the points you mentioned to me that I thought were important:
  • Aggron was the win condition I decided to build with since with a specially defensive set it's able to function as a very sturdy win condition and check pokemon like celebi with more comfort than the tank spread typically runs.
  • I was looking terribly weak to a bunch of threats like Entei, M-Bee VoltTurn, Cobalion, etc, and every team needs Stealth Rock.
  • That left me with Entei, which gives a powerful ESpeed, Fairy check, and a soft Cobalion check.
-I will now also highlight what I thought were problems your team faced:
  • Little to no answer to BU conkeldurr on a team whose win condition is setup fodder for it.
  • Weak to fast fightings in general such as coba (terribly) and mienshao
  • Has somewhat of a krook problem as on this kind of team losing lefties is a problem versus aero/krook cores.
  • Celebi can easily force its way through on a sleeping aggron
  • Mega swampert exists (I had to redo my rate since after pain staking hours I realised it existed in ORAS SSIIGGGHHHHH)
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-So I changed this team around in quite a few ways and I really had a hard time building a balance with a mega aggron using this archetype without really severely changing it so I already doubt some of my changes. So to begin this honestly had to be done:
-------------->

Some wild shit (open)
Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Heal Bell
- Psychic

  • Now you are probably looking at this and going "wtf?", but listen up here. Aggron is 2hkoed by psychic if celebi gets to +4 and thats stupidly easy when aggron is asleep; so to combat this we are running an interesting celebi set which can support aggron by waking it up as well as perform well versus opposing stall by 1v1ing blissey (wild right?). I could not for the life of me fit a cleric on this team without losing to something else or changing the archetype too heavily. Celebi allows us to also check mega swampert, krookodile, and beat opposing waters.
-Now another thing I had to do with this team is give you a way of actually dealing with BU conk like the old match up was horrendous imo:
--------->

breaker bat (open)
Crobat @ Black Sludge
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 232 HP / 132 Def / 144 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Roost
- Haze

  • Now the entei wasn't such a bad idea but we still need something for the conk that also still punishes fairies a bit more. By running this crobat we can easily deal with conkeldurr with haze, preventing sylveon from supporting its team with taunt, deal with cobalion with haze, and finally offers you more speed control as well as revenge celebi+shao if shit goes wrong with aggron (like earth power celebi).
-With crobat>entei we lost a little pressure so to fix that up we can make a set change in hydreigon to add more offensive pressure:

stall breaker hydreigon (open)
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt
- Roost
  • Stall breaker hydreigon offers you a krookodile switch in that isn't that afraid to lose its item while also giving you something for cm chandelure that isn't afraid of wear down. This again enforces the whole preventing opposing clerics from bringing up their checks to full if they try to wish pass to coba or something. This means less trouble for swampert so it can be focused on checking threats like mamoswine since aggron can deal with aero and hydreigon with krook.
In conclusion I feel bad since I still feel like this changes a lot of what you were making but I still feel it sits in the archetype you were trying for. I don't know how I could have fit a cleric like sylveon or something without losing to some of the other threats I mentioned so this celebi set was the best I could do. My biggest pet peeve here is the opposing lo hydreigon match up since if they have superpower its like "ssiggghhhh", but I think dealing with everything else in the meta was important. Another quick change you should probably make is Roar>toxic/knock off on empoleon to force celebi out if you don't want to risk a sack and aggron is still asleep or knocked out. Swampert probably likes torrent>damp since its usually a lot more useful but up to preference I suppose. Have fun and gl on your end shiba.
 
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Cynde

toasty
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Killintime vs IronBullet
Jury Decision
Killintime does not pass

because killintime posted two versions of the team in his rate, i'll be posting the comparison a little differently.

  • in killintime's first version, he fails to address to weakness to toxic spikes and the problem of strong fighting types, although he did improve the match up to suicune with his addition of stall breaker hydreigon. killintime's version also found himself being susceptible to bulky water + fairy cores (alomomola + florg / milotic + sylveon) which IB managed to cover better. the team also struggles to switch into specs sylveon. killintime didn't change the team too much from the original with this version and kept within the theme of the team for the most part.
  • in killintime's second version he drastically changes the team and play style due to the removal of two momentum grabbers. he also changes the spikes stacking approach to pressuring teams that the original had. this wasn't an optimal change as the team has no win condition and without spikes it struggles to pressure the opposition effectively. despite this his second version managed to provide the team with switch ins to nidos and sylveon. with the addition of pursuit krookodile, volt turn teams can be threatened to a larger degree. however these changes drastically changed the teams composition.

  • now for IB's rate: IB managed to provide the team with a toxic spikes absorber, which greatly helps Alomomola, by changing Mega-Swampert to Nidoqueen. Nidoqueen wielding thunderbolt also allows it to threaten bulky water types. the addition of Nidoqueen also means that the team has another soft check to Fairy-types and Fighting-types which is important. IronBullet also incorporated a change of Toxic Alomomola and Giga Drain Whimsicott which greatly improves the team's match up against water types. and in comparison to killintime, IB kept the theme of the team better. However, IB did remove one key gimmick the team uses in Healing Wish Alomomola.
taking this all into consideration the jury felt that IB addressed the issues that this team faced better than killintime did, requiring less changes to team playstyle and team composition and as a result, IB is declared the winner of this round.

Congrats killintime on making it so far, you did damn well rating at a pretty high level consistently, with good, well thought out suggestions and excellent formatting. it's okay that you didn't get all the way because you have a tr badge now! good job buddy :)

Heyo for the final round I was given a team I saw in ORAS and had actually skipped over since these kinds of teams have their own type of charm...gimmick maybe is the word (but hey if it works don't fix it.....oh wait). Alomomola Bulky Offence is what we see here, a cool concept for sure but this is a hard rate due to removing anything opening up another weakness. To start off I outlined the weaknesses this team has:

  • Heliolisk+Beedrill-Mega can only be stopped if the opponent doesn't realise the ape if scarfed and loses his volt turn core (even then heliolisk comes real close to just spamming stabs and GK anyways)
  • This teams flying resist is alomomola which isn't so bad but what it means is pokemon like Tornadus don't really care for anything outside of the infernape and again just clicks stab or grass knot.
  • Nidoqueen just generally goes in versus this team as the only ones who can actually KO it are Hydreigon and Swampert-mega both of which can't switch in without careful prediction and are unable to take a slow-volt from forretress since Nidos are immune to it.
  • Last one I honestly think opposing scarf shao can be a pain but honestly whimsi+alomomola should be enough to deal with it.

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The team seems effective overall anyways so all I can probably say is some minor changes on the team?:

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt
- Roost




  • Specs Hydreigon was fine but versus fatter builds the team might have had troubles so being able to spike stack versus stall and taunt the defogger is a great asset, it also means you take a lot of the pressure off of Alomomola since you don't have to constantly be passing this thing wishes. You also get to prevent the walls switching in from supporting their team giving you a better match up versus fatter builds overall.
Again not really much I can do to add on without changing the teams play style so another variation could be added on whimsicott:

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Encore
- Moonblast
- Leech Seed / Taunt / Energy Ball
- U-turn




  • With stall breaker Hydreigon you probably won't need the TW anymore so leech seed can make your team that much more obnoxious to deal with as it follows suit with the teams ability to throw up wishes and switch in hard checks. Taunt offers you the ability to continue to keep up hazards versus defoggers on fatter builds. Energy ball lets you hit swampert a lot harder but probably isn't that important seeing as how you have alomomola.
Honestly I thought about what I could do like possibly switching hydreigon but then you lose a ground immunity and a lot of offensive pressure, removing forretress removes your method to dealing with Celebi somewhat effectively, removing whimsicott makes sub Gyarados impossible to play against, removing swampert removes the volt switch immunity, and alomomola is the whole idea of the team. So there wasn't really a way I could try to optimise this team without changing 3 mons or more....which doesn't even make it hoggs team anymore. That being said I came up with something as a sort of variation that I have been working on all week trying to use a different dark type wall-breaker but again I think hoggs team is so good that this variation is more of a spin than anything else.

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-In this variation I try to fix out the weaknesses that I outlined, but it makes a lot of changes so I wasn't very confident in showing it but why not:
------->

Krookodile @ Choice Band
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit
- Toxic




  • Since I swap out swampert we lose an aero check, stealth rocks, and volt switch immunity. So by swapping out hydreigon for krook we still keep a breaker except now we can pursuit heliolisk for example. The toxic allows you to hurt fatter playstyles for example opposing alomomola, the pursuit lets you hurt blissey, and the intimidate lets you check aero.
-The next part allows you to deal with mega beedrill volt-turn a lot better:

Alomomola @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Def / 200 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Healing Wish
- Protect
- Wish




  • The lefties aren't as important with blastoise being around to help check entei and this allows us to wear down opposing mega beedrill volt turn cores.
-After that I replaced forre for a flying resist since Tornadus just clicked hurricane 6-8 times and won:
------------->

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 SpD
Impish Nature
- Toxic
- Heavy Slam
- Stealth Rock
- Psywave




  • Bronzong gives us the ground immunity we lost, another aerodactyl check, the stealth rocks we lost in switching pert for blastoise, and retains the fairy resist. We lose a lot of the pivoting the team had in return for having some counter play to fast powerful threats.
-Last change I make is:
------------>

Blastoise @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 144 HP / 252 SpA / 112 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Aura Sphere




  • This allows us to check mons like gyarados since we are able to roar it out for later, have counterplay to crawdaunt, retain hazard control, and take the pressure off of mola.
So ye this was a last ditch effort and I don't really care if I win or lose, but I do blame cynde for giving me such an unalterable team that has little to no room to actually improve without failing to check something else in return. gg IB doubt this will compare to what you fixed.


Here you go bud, sorry for the delay:

Hi man! This is a really solid team. I love the offensive core of Specs Hydrei and Scarf Infernape, and Specially Defensive Forry + Wish Alomomola complement each other excellently and cover most of the metagame's main threats very well.

There are, however, a few issues to consider. First of all, the team's sole Fighting-type resist is Whimsicott, which isn't very bulky and struggles against particularly strong wallbreakers like Mienshao, Heracross and Conkeldurr. Furthermore, there is already enough pressure on Whimsicott with it being tasked to deal with Dark-types, Ground-types and Dragons as well. While Mola can take on most Fighting-types by itself thanks to Scald and Wish, Hera's and Conk's access to Guts makes them two of the few offensive Pokes in the tier who actually enjoy facing Mola. Mola also faces trouble reliably switching into Mienshao's insanely powerful HJK with hazards down. The other Pokemon all struggle to switch into Fighting-types as well, especially with Forry's lack of defensive investment and Mega Swampert's lack of a recovery move. The team also does not have a Toxic Spikes absorber or a cleric, meaning that the effectiveness of Mola will be drastically reduced if Forry fails to keep them off the field and Mola is poisoned as a result. Considering how much the team relies on Mola to blanket check many offensive threats, I think this is a pretty serious worry. Keeping all of this in mind, I would like to suggest trying Nidoqueen over Mega Swampert. Nidoqueen handles Fighting-types very well with its solid bulk and good typing, provides the team with a TS absorber and a better option than Forry to deal with Fairies, while still maintaining Mega Swampert's ability to hit like a truck albeit from the special side. The moveset I'd suggest is the following:

Nidoqueen @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Sludge Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Thunderbolt

Speed EVs are important to get the jump on Suicune. LO is necessary to secure the 2HKO on Bulk Up Conkeldurr with Sludge Wave and for Thunderbolt to have a shot at 2HKOing Suicune as it boosts up. With Spikes and SR up, both are pretty much guaranteed. Ice Beam is still an option thanks to its great coverage with EP, but the importance of Thunderbolt in hitting Suicune and other Waters, something I'll be going into more detail later, can't be understated here. The only significant Pokemon you're truly losing out on hitting is Gligar I believe, which the team doesn't worry too much about regardless.

What you lose out on by running Nidoqueen is a resistance to Fire and a powerful physical attacker. With Hydreigon, Mola and Infernape I think the team is already well-covered against the likes of Entei, Infernape and Mega Houndoom. Losing out Mega Swampert's physical prowess is definitely a blow, but Nidoqueen still provides a ton of wallbreaking power and will perform similarly effectively against bulky teams that lack Blissey. Blissey itself is mere setup bait for Forry and can be taken out by Infernape and Hydrei's Focus Blast with hazards down. Nidoqueen also does give an additional Water weakness, but again with Hydrei, Mola and Whimsi you already have them handled decently. Besides, Nidoqueen's access to Thunderbolt actually makes it more of an asset rather than a liability against bulky Waters. Overall, I believe the benefits that Nidoqueen provide make it a worthy alternative over Mega Swampert.

The team's matchup against bulky Water-types, Suicune and Milotic in particular, can be quite troublesome as well. Suicune's ability to boost its Special Defense and Milotic's naturally high base stat in that department make it increasingly difficult for Hydrei to break through them, while Whimsicott is a shaky check at best to both as it can be worn down by Scald. Infernape and Mega Swampert also lack the firepower necessary to beat them. Slowking and Mega Blastoise cause similar problems but are more easily dealt with thanks to the former's vulnerability to Dark Pulse and the latter's lack of recovery. I think that running Toxic on Alomomola over Healing Wish can improve the team's performance against these Pokemon significantly. Toxic completely cripples Milotic and pressures Suicune enough to allow Whimsicott to take easy advantage of it with Encore. Toxic also makes Alomomola a much more formidable opponent against opposing Hydreigon and physical sweepers like Mega Aerodactyl, Mienshao or Mega Swampert, as it now has a much easier time stalling them out rather than having to rely on a Scald burn. Healing Wish is a cool move for sure and can come in handy at times, but apart from Hydrei, the team sorely lacks firepower and the pressure that Toxic puts on the opponent makes it a worthwhile option in my opinion.

My final suggestion is a more optional recommendation of Giga Drain on Whimsicott over Tailwind. This is more down to my personal preference because I enjoy the additional pressure Giga Drain applies on Suicune and other Waters. Because without GD, once Suicune is locked into a move there isn't much at all that Whimsicott can do to harm it, and the same goes for Milotic and Slowking. And especially if Whimsi is burned, it will be defeated eventually. With GD, Whimsi can stay healthy enough to force Suicune out and eventually defeat it if it comes down to it. GD also has the added benefit of keeping Whimsi healthy enough to continuously check threats like Hydrei, Krookodile and Conkeldurr throughout a match without needing to rely on Mola. Similar to the previous change, the downside is that the team loses a handy move in Tailwind, but which again is not something that will often make or break a game. With Toxic though I feel the team's matchup against Waters is vastly improved anyway, so if you do opt to go with Toxic then GD is less of a necessity.

Summary

  • Mega Swampert -> Nidoqueen to deal with Fighters better and provide a TS absorber
  • Alomomola: Healing Wish -> Toxic to deal with bulky Waters better and make it less passive overall
  • (Optional) Whimsicott: Tailwind -> Giga Drain to pressurise Suicune more and keep Whimsi relatively healthy
Great job with the team, and I hope my suggestions help!


EVERY FUCKING TIME. AGH. :mad:
 
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IronBullet

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sniperr vs Cynde

Jury Decision: Tie
Result: sniperr advances

Both raters correctly identified Mega Aerodactyl as the team's foremost threat, and both suggested Swampert as a remedy for it. However while sniperr replaced Krook with Pert, which was a suggestion we agreed with, Cynde replaced Cobalion, which ultimately played a big part in our decision. Because while Cynde's suggestions did improve the team overall more than sniperr's did, the fact that Cynde replaced the Pokemon which the team was built around was a mark against him as raters are generally encouraged to keep the main idea of the team intact if possible.

Cynde's other suggestions of Pixie Plate Sylveon over Entei, CB Krook and Hone Claws Aero were all great suggestions that gave the team a wallbreaker and wincon to replace the outgoing Pokemon, along with a much-needed Hydreigon and Conkeldurr check. sniperr's suggestion of cleric Sylveon over Celebi was not as ideal in our opinion as it worsened the team's matchup against bulky Waters quite significantly, while cleric Sylveon itself is relatively passive and did not fit with the team's attacking philosophy. sniperr's minor changes of Stone Edge and Shuca Berry on Cobalion were both solid choices to improve the team's performance against Gyarados and Mega Aero.

Taking everything into consideration, we felt that a tie was appropriate in this scenario to reflect that while Cynde's suggestions improved the team more than sniperr's did, sniperr did a better job of keeping the main wincon of the team intact while still making decent changes. So congrats to sniperr for advancing!

This is how to use hide tags properly Cynde you noob:
Minor tweaks and fixes:

  • To begin things here, I've decided to go Swampert over Krookodile. The team was really weak to opposing Mega Aerodactyls which pretty much 6-0d this team. Swampert is a nice bulky water than can reliably get up rocks while checking Mega Aerodactyl, which allows you to keep up the momentum and for your opponet to lose theirs.

  • Secondly, After some hard thought, I decided to go with cleric Sylveon over Celebi. I felt like this team needed a fairy type badly. Adding cleric sylveon here allows your team to not be status bait from sableye. Seeing as this team has nothing good to stop it, or safely switch in except Entei which is not good because he does not want the Choice Band to be knocked off. Sylveon also has good synergy with Swampert as Sylveon is easily abused by physical fire types such as Entei and Arcanine and Darmanitan. Sylveon also allows you deal with scarf Hydreigon alot easier, as Sylveons presence prevents draco spam.

  • Lastly, This team is annoyed by Gyarados and Chandelure. I suggest Stone Edge over Rock Polish. Stone Edge allows you to lure in these Pokemon for an easier time to sweep late game, and having a dual dance sets allows destroys that coverage that is greatly appreciated for Cobalion. Shuca Berry is a very useful item on Cobalion as it allows you to be able switch into Pokemon such as Mega Aerodactly, Krookodile, and Mega Beedrill more comfortably. It also allows you to be able to set up on said 'Mons if the situation presents its self.

Other possible options:

Krookodile with Rocky Helmet allows you to take on M. Aero much easier, and also while keeping Chandelure in check with pursuit. With a bulky set, I pick out 216+ Speed Jolly nature to outpace adamant Entei. 252hp and 40 Attack. This allows you to better handle Aero for a loss of power. (Beware of aqua tail M.Aero).

Mega Aerodactyl with Earthquake over roost. Helps weaken and burns the shuca berry on Cobalion and Empoleon

Cobalion @ Shuca Berry
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Roar/Protect (Scout vs hydra switch ins)

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Protect
- Hyper Voice
- Protect
- Heal Bell
Alternative other option sets:
Krookodile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock


Krookodile @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Wing Attack
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge

Original Team:


  • Problem areas: Mega Aerodactyl, Gyarados, Choice Scarf Hydreigon, Conk
Those 4 are pretty big pain in the asses for this team to face. Especially the former two should they get a chance to set up.

  • I'd like to address the Mega-Aerodactyl issue first. In order to help mitigate the weakness i'd recommend using Swampert > Cobalion. This change allows you to check Aerodactyl pretty efficiently early-mid game which gives you enough time to build up chip damage, set up rocks and just basically ensure this nuisance doesn't get out of hand. swampert would run the standard stealth rock / scald / earthquake / roar however I do believe that hp electric is a very viable option over roar to help check gyarados. swampert's ev spread distribution should look like 240 hp / 252 def / 16 spe. this hits a leftovers number and lets swampert outspeed pokemon that like to creep relaxed swampert such as dragalge. swampert should be running a relaxed nature.

  • Now this change does exacerbate your Hydreigon match up so to help with this I'd suggest utilising Pixie Plate Sylveon > Entei. This way you retain a wallbreaker but you gain a much needed Hydreigon answer and another much needed Conkeldurr check. the set it would run would be calm mind / snore / rest / hyper voice. other offensive sylveon sets are extremely prone to being worn down by conkeldurr and u-turn from hydreigon so this set is used in order to help circumvent that. sylveon should run 252 spa / 4 SpD / 252 Spe with a Timid nature as this allows you to outspeed Jolly Crawdaunt.

Now with the pokemon changes out of the way we get to set optimisation.

  1. Krookodile should be running Choice Band now that the role of the stealth rock setter has shifted to swampert. Superpower should be run in place of rocks in order to lure in Hydreigon. it should also be running 40 def which lets it pursuit trap mega beedrill. the added power from choice band allows it to function as an actual psychic check.
  2. Celebi should be running Shadow Ball over dazzling gleam in order to hit psychic types such as bronzong for sylveon and aerodactyl as well as opposing celebi which is nice.
  3. Tentacruel should run Dazzling Gleam over Acid Spray because we don't want our team to be getting 6-0d by mixed hydreigon as far as possible.
  4. Aerodactyl should now be running a Hone Claws + Roost set in order to function as a more long term beedrill check and win condition. the attacking moves it should be running are Wing Attack, to hit celebi and stone edge to help check gyarados.

New Team:


now this rate isn't perfect. for example, mixed hydreigon, crawdaunt and sylveon can probably cause some damage but for the most part you're able to handle the meta and the trade off between checking what you can now and losing out on these three (not really losing out but just having trouble with them) is definitely worth it
 

Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
with killintime's great run wrapping up we're now accepting Panther-T :]

here's the match up: Panther-T vs Sun

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- U-turn
- Drill Run
- Poison Jab

Beedrill was the Pokemon I built my team around. The moveset is completely standard. Protect allows Mega Beedrill to evolve safely and scout against Pokemon such as Entei and Krookodile. U-turn allows Mega Beedrill to gain momentum. Poison Jab allows it to hit Fairy-types such as Sylveon that resist U-turn. These two attacks are extremely powerful in conjunction with adaptability. Drill Run is the coverage move Mega Beedrill runs if it wishes to threaten Nidoking and Cobalion.

Conkeldurr @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab

Despite carrying Drill Run, Mega Beedrill still struggles against Steel-types so I wanted a teammate that could punish said Steel-types and since Beedrill works well with wallbreakers I settled on CB Conk. Hammer Arm in conjunction with Iron First forms a very powerful attack. Mach Punch is priority that allows it revenge kill pokemon such as Hydreigon. Knock Off is coverage that Conk uses to hit ghosts. Poison Jab allows Conk to hit Sylveon and other fairies. The speed allows Conk to outspeed 0 speed sylveon.

Espeon @ Mind Plate
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Signal Beam
- Psychic
- Psyshock

With Mega Beedrill being so susceptible to entry hazards I wanted a Pokemon that could deter the opposition from setting them up. Espeon also helps with checking Conkeldurr as well. Calm Mind allows it to boost its Special Attack making it able to threaten both Physical and Special walls with Psychic and Psyshock respectively. Signal Beam is coverage that lets Espeon hit Celebi and Dark types.

Krookodile @ Black Glasses
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 216 Atk / 40 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Knock Off
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

Krookodile provides the team with a Volt Switch immunity, Stealth Rocks and a Knock Off user all of which aid Beedrill. Stealth Rock + U-turn is great for racking up damage. Knock Off removes items such as leftovers which allows Beedrill to punish the opposition even more. 40 Def + Pursuit is used in order to ensure that Krookodile is able to trap Beedrill if healthy.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 240 HP / 68 Def / 8 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray
- Toxic Spikes

Magic Bounce isn't a reliable way to keep off hazards to a hazard remover was necessary. Tentacruel filled this role well in addition to giving the team a fire resist. Toxic Spikes again, help Beedrill build up chip damage. it's fast enough to outspeed Krookodile and 8 SpA allows Tentacruel to 2HKO Entei. The moveset is completely standard.

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Play Rough
- Toxic

Klefki is a mon that provides a lot of useful checks to stuff like Crobat, Hydreigon and Beedrill, at least in the short run. Thunder Wave allows this team to deal with potentially threatening faster pokemon such as Mega Sharpedo. Spikes again, in conjunction with U-turn allow Beedrill to build up chip damage quickly. Play rough is the attacking move of choice that hits Hydreigon, Krookodile, Mega Sceptile and other dark and dragon types. it's fast enough to outspeed crawdaunt.


deadline is 3/3/17

happy rating guys!
 

Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Killintime is part of the league now :3

Round 2: sniperr vs Killintime

also no you don't get an importable killintime. you can take 5 minutes out of your day to put the team in your team builder. after that you can go back to being the goat leader or whatever it is you do in your spare time.
Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rain Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

This team was build around Rain Dance Swampert as it's an extremely effective cleaner. A Jolly nature was preferred on Swampert as it enables Swampert to outspeed Choice Scarf users. The set is fairly straight forward with EQ and Waterfall being STAB moves and Ice Punch being the coverage to hit Grass-types and Hydreigon.

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Flare Blitz
- Extreme Speed
- Stone Edge

Mega Swampert tends to get stopped by Grass-types and checked by Dragon and Water types. This makes Entei a very good partner as it can easily defeat Grass-types and wear down Dragon and Water types with Sacred Fire. It also gives the team strong priority. the moveset is completely standard.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Dazzling Gleam

Tentacruel runs an offensive set because nothing on this team really enjoys switching into Hydreigon and Krookodile and therefore their ability to attack should be limited as much as possible. Dazzling Gleam allows Tentacruel to hit Hydreigon. Toxic Spikes help wear down Grass and Water types which aids Mega Swampert. Rapid Spin prevents Toxic Spikes / spikes from wearing down Mega Swampert.

Cresselia @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonlight
- Signal Beam
- Psyshock

Tentacruel is an extremely frail answer to Fighting-types if it isn't running a defensive set. Hence a more sturdy fighting answer was required and cresselia fills this role well. It also serves as a secondary win condition that benefits from the presence of Ground type wallbreakers and Entei. the set is fairly standard, running 96 speed to outspeed crawdaunt and signal beam to hit Hydreigon and Celebi, which helps Swampert. Colbur helps it take dark types attacks from Hydreigon / Krookodile.

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Ice Shard
- Knock Off

The team needed a stealth rock user and volt switch immunity. Mamoswine fit the bill perfectly as it synergises fantastically with Swampert as they have similar checks and counters. This means Mamoswine is capable of wearing the opposition down from Swampert removing leftovers from waters with Knock off is an example. The set is standard.

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- U-turn
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor

This team was looking kind of slow, despite the priority so a Choice Scarf user felt appropriate. Hydreigon is one of the best options available for this team as it helps pressure Psychic types which this team needed. It provides speed against some important threats such as Mega Beedrill. The set is, once again, standard.


deadline is 3/3/17

hf guys :D
 
Last edited:

Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
im so sorry this took so long, exams have swamped me.

Panther-T vs Sun
Jury Decision: Sun wins
Result: Panther doesn't advance


These two had extremely similar rates both in suggestions and threat appraisal. Both of them managed to figure out the biggest problems being the likes of Mega Aerodactyl, Entei and Water-types and they both addressed the problems in a similar fashion. They both suggested Swampert as a means to check Mega Aerodactyl, Entei and such. Panther's Swampert had Hidden Power Electric to help with Gyarados. Here's what differentiated the rate: The Grass-types they suggested, Panther-T's being Nasty Plot Celebi and Sun's being Scarf Rotom Mow. Scarf Rotom mow was a very good suggestion that allowed the team to offensive pressure Mega Aerodactyl, Crobat and the likes while also acting as a Celebi lure with Signal Beam. Now granted that's not a very sturdy answer to water types which Sun addresses in his Conkeldurr change, which he makes Bulk Up. This acts as a check to weaker water types such as Alomomola and acts as a win condition, thus alleviating some of the pressure off Rotom Mow. Panther-T's changes (such as Magnet Rise Klefki were good and removed the redundancy of Toxic Klefki) while good failed to cover as many issues as Sun's changes did, and as a result he doesn't advance. Thanks for participating! If you have any doubts you're free to ask.

Hey!

Thanks for accepting my application to the rating league! This is my favourite activity to do on Smogon and I appreciate the chance to try and prove myself. Anyways, here is my rate.

Starting team:

  • Issues: Aerodactyl, Gyarados, bulky waters (esp. CM suicune), Krookodile, Mega Swampert (esp. rain dance), Hydreigon (esp. LO).
Aerodactyl kills something everytime it gets to attack vs. this team, and can come in pretty easily vs. Beedrill and Krookodile. I also notice that mega pert can setup rain against literally 4/6 of this team (klefki, krook, espeon, beedrill) if it gets a free turn, and clicks earthquake 4 times to win. CM Suicune sets up on 3/6 here (still beats tentacruel 1v1), and CM Espeon really doesn't deal with it well. Likewise, Gyrados can get to +1 pretty easily against this team, and literally wins if it's sub-dd. Offensive ground types in general are a pain in the ass given how easily they can come in on Klefki here (especially the nidos). Hydreigon is a little less of an issue given that Klefki deters it from clicking its STAB, but it can still come in on Krookodile and Tentacruel, and it only needs to click fire blast/e-power once on klefki to get past it.
------------------

The following changes aim to help address the previously highlighted vulnerabilities.

1.
[np]>


The current Espeon set is a bit inefficient I feel. There is no need to really deter hazard setters with magic bounce considering that this team has Tentacruel, which is an effective spinner. In addition, this team desperately needs something to adequately beat CM Suicune (and something to switch into scald reliable); espeon really can't switch in effectively and loses to it 1v1. Nasty plot Celebi does this and also gives this team an offensive check to mega swampert, which as mentioned is a pain in the ass to face. While on paper you 'lose' to special walls, NP Celebi can just boost to +6 and overwhelm them (florges, blissey, p2, etc.), so running an ineffective Espeon set really doesn't work here.

As for the set, standard STAB+NP is used, but I would also run dazzling gleam here. Mixed/LO Hydreigon is a mon that this team really can't afford to let in (you have klefki but that gets nuked by earth power/fire blast), and seeing how Hydreigon can come in on krookodile and tentacruel easily, I would not want to give it more opportunities to fire off attacks. Losing recover kinda worsens the matchup against offensive m-pert, but i feel that the tradeoff is worth it. As for the item, stick with leftovers: celebi is the team's only answer to bulky water types, so running a LO just wears it down. Standard NP EVs are fine as well.
Celebi Set (close)

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam



2.

While Krookodile certainly is a good Pokemon, on this team I would highly advise to replace it with defensive swampert. As mentioned, Aerodactyl is a massive issue for this team to handle, and offensive ground types like Krookodile and Mamoswine essentially kill something everytime they get the opportunity to attack. In addition, DD Gyarados can setup to +1 vs. Krookodile and essentially sweep the team. Swampert hard checks all of these mons, and with hidden power electric, can effectively surprise and beat Gyrados in a 1v1 situation. Roar can still be used; however, I feel that the ability to actually beat instead of force out Gyarados is much more valuable on this team. The rest of the set is standard and doesn't really require much explanation (scald, eq, rocks w/ leftovers, standard EVs).
Swampert set (close)

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Roar (roar is still viable, but for this team the ability to beat Gyarados 1v1 is far more valuable)



3.
: Magnet rise>toxic; specially defensive.

This is a minor change, but Nasty Plot Celebi with dazzling gleam invalidates the need to run toxic to hit mons like Cresselia and Mandibuzz. Basically, celebi beats the fat shit that toxic would otherwise check. I feel that magnet rise is far more useful because Klefki invites in nidoqueen/king, and being able to use them as spikes fodder is extremely valuable for beedrill later on. This is especially true because the team still does not have a guaranteed switch in to those mons. It also helps you beat Krookodile 1v1, which is pretty important considering that Swampert would rather not switch into a knock off and lose its recovery.

Secondly, I'd run a specially defensive set here to check Hydreigon marginally better, but more importantly allowing you to hard check Sceptile by avoiding the 2HKO from focus blast. The defence isn't too significant as you can still hard check Crobat and Beedrill with the threat of T-Wave.
Klefki Set (close)

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 156 SpD / 100 Spe
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Play Rough
- Magnet Rise


4.
Another minor change. I feel that this team handles sylveon and other fairies well given the fact that A) Beedrill forces them out, B) Klefki uses them as spikes bait, and C) Tentacruel walls everything but specs psyshock (which they are forced to predict and you can easily go to Klefki after to set spikes). Not only that, but offensive Sylveon already takes a ton from CB hammer arm, and you can always knock off a cleric Sylveon on the switch to wear it down and force it to recover (thereby giving you a turn to switch into tentacruel or klefki). Ice punch is to help with the crobat matchup. Crobat can otherwise come in and roost off the knock off damage, or just U-Turn and gain momentum when you are forced to go into Klefki. Thus, ice punch helps to lure and standard utility crobat on the switch, which really helps out Beedrill and Celebi.
------------------


Ending Team (close)

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 240 HP / 68 Def / 8 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray
- Toxic Spikes

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Hidden Power [Electric] / Roar

Conkeldurr @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Hammer Arm
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- U-turn
- Drill Run
- Poison Jab

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 156 SpD / 100 Spe
Careful Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Play Rough
- Magnet Rise

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam

That is it for the changes! I recognize that this rate is not perfect. Mixed Hydreigon is still hard to handle, and offensive Suicune still is an issue given that it can nuke Celebi with signal beam on the switch. Conkeldurr is a bit of a problem as well seeing how Celebi can't OHKO AV sets and takes a ton from knock off, plus the fact that Klefki would rather not switch into it. LO Hydreigon is still hard to deal with as well, so make sure to have conk or beedrill alive to actually deal with it.

However, I'm not prepared to blindly slap a Sylveon on this team to have a dedicated conk answer, as I feel that spikes and speed control are FAR more useful on this team. Plus, having a lure should help with Hydreigon at least. In general, I feel that I have improved the matchup vs. the original threats that this team struggled with (gyarados, aerodactyl, krookodile and suicune mainly) while still retaining the original plan of the team (stack hazards, clean with beedrill). Having a couple of remaining threats is normal for any team and you just need to play around them carefully (keep conk alive to revenge kill hydreigon, keep celebi alive for conk). That concludes my rate. Thank you for reading and have a good rest of the day!​




hello, interesting team you have here, after giving a look to the team, I see that it is really really weak to fire types likes of Entei, especially because of your main fire switch in (Tentacruel) is a faster version and lacks a lot of defensive potentials which that would help take Entei better. Next, I've seen a weakness to Mega Aerodactyl, your team doesn't have reliable answers to it, also the Hone Claws version can win with ease against this build. After that, I would mention some issues that this team has against certain types of pokemons and playstyles, this team, in my opinion, is pretty vulnerable to Water-types, especially CM Suicune, which is really hard to knock out, regarding playstyles, I think this team lacks a reliable stall breaker making Stall builds hard to deal with.
Fist of all, since Entei and mega Aerodactyl, seems really scary for your team as I said above, I'd suggest you using Swampert over Krookodile, this change helps your match up against the aforementioned threats. Furthermore, Swampert is really useful against the annoying SD Cobalion around allowing you to be more careful playing against it, it also provides Rocks and a volt switch immunity, as well as Krookodile provides.
Secondly, I would talk how to deal with Water-types, my first thought initially led to Celebi, but later I thought about it, and I thought to suggest Scarf Rotom-mow over Espeon, this change helps a lot against water-types taking advantage of volt turn with Mega Beedrill and hazards, finally, it provides another interesting way to deal with foe's mega Aerodactyl, Crobat, and Celebi since it has Signal beam, in the last slot there's Trick, which can cripple special walls likes of Blissey.

At last, since your team lacks a stall breaker and a status absorber, I'd suggest you using Bulk Up Conkeldurr over CB, this change might be helpful to deal with Suicune, Alomomola and bulky builds in general, it is also a good answer to foe's mega Bee, Cobalion after a defense boost, and it's special bulk allows it to take a bit scarf Chandelure and Hydreigon for the team. Additionally, now it has the advantage of not being a setup bait for SD Lucario and SD Cobalion when locked into Knock off or Ice Punch.

An option might be using Nasty plot Celebi Over Rotom-mow to take better Conkeldurr and others Fighting types, but this would cost a large loss of momentum in my opinion. That's all and hope i've helped! :toast:

Sets (close)

Beedrill-Mega @ Beedrillite
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Protect
- U-turn
- Drill Run
- Poison Jab

Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Knock Off
- Bulk Up

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 240 HP / 68 Def / 8 SpA / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray
- Toxic Spikes

Klefki @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Impish Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Play Rough
- Toxic

Swampert @ Leftovers
Ability: Damp
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Roar

Rotom-Mow @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Signal Beam
- Trick


please hide tag gods have mercy on my soul
 

Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Killintime vs sniperr
Jury Decision: Tie
Result: Sniper advances

this was an interesting comparison. they both identified the threats the team faced well and managed to address most of them. on one hand, sniper addressed the problems from a more defensive point of view with the additions of Florges and Cobalion in order to help check Hydreigon, Mega Beedrill, Gyarados and Snorlax. While these were acceptable changes they did deviate from the team's offensive play style of wearing down Mega Swampert's checks and counters (with the likes of mamoswine, toxic spikes tenta) to an extent. His changes also left the team with a pretty large weakness to Suicune and Milotic. Tenta, due to it not being support by a Wish user is susceptible to being worn down by scald which will subsequently cause the team to lose to cune. His change to Florges also improved the team's match up against fighting-types, something which Killintime's rate failed to do. However Killintime's rate did have its own merits in that it had a much better match up against Suicune due to the existence of Celebi. and due to him not removing toxic spikes in conjunction with the addition of NP Celebi, the team's match up against bulkier teams also improved. Killintime also failed to address the Snorlax weakness as it will take precious little for Snorlax to start setting up and proceeding to sweep the team. Killintime did however keep in line with the team's playstyle better than sniper did. taking all this into account a tie is being declared and sniper will advance.

Team Overview

Looking at the team I quickly noticed a bit of weakness to mons such as Choice Scarf Hydreigon, Mega Beedrill, Snorlax (Fat normals), Celebi, and Gyarados. However, I have came up with some minor changes that will improve the teams performance

The Changes/Edits
  • To start things off, the first Pokemon I decided to change is Mamoswine for utility Cobalion. The reason is because Life orb Mamoswine is not that a great rocker and didnt really serve any reasonable purpose. This team already has a volt immunity and Mamo on this offensive team loses too much momentum with rocks and serves its use better wall-breaking. Cobalion here is nice because its typing is nice, provides great support for the team, Checks Mega Beedrill and Snorlax, as well as Mega Aerodactyl.

  • The next change I decided to do was to add Defensive Calm Mind Florges over Cresselia. My reason for this was to cover the Scarf Hydreigon weakness as well as the fighting weakness together while also keeping in mind the fact it serves as a second win condition and provides status support for the team

  • Lastly, I decided to remove Dazzling Gleam and add Acid Spray on Tentacruel, and Sludge Bomb over Toxic Spikes. My reason is because at this point the Hydreigon weakness was checked and I wanted to focus on another pokemon that could be annoying such as suicune. This set allows you to keep it in check, while still being given the chance to spread poison status with sludge bomb, and also luring celebi in for Mega Swampert. Acid Spray Lowers the Pokemon Special Defensive stat by two stages allowing Tentacruel to win in a 1 v 1 situation.

Cobalion @ Shuca Berry/Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Sacred Sword
- Stealth Rock
- Iron Head/X Scissor/Taunt/Volt Switch

This Cobalion set allows you to out speed Base 100s Iron Head is to help weaken Mega Aerodactly and to hit fairies. X Scissor is pretty much just for Celebi as it sometimes switches in on it so this is a nice lure. Taunt helps should down setup mons and be nice in terms of preventing hazards from going up from pokemon such as Forretress and Swampert. Volt Switch is mostly for momentum and to keep Gyarados in check. Thunderwave is on the main set because its solid speed control and also punishes Gyrados for trying to setup or switch in. Sacred Sword is mostly for Snorlax as it ignores any status boost.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Sludge Bomb
- Rapid Spin
- Acid Spray

Florges (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 232 Def / 28 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Synthesis

.


Alright so I got shrekt by IB and have been conscripted into the rating league (cynde sucks), so the first round I've been given an interesting team. It appears to be a team weak to hydreigon at first but is covered in quite a few lures such as colbur cress and offensive dazzling gleam tentacruel. Now as cool as the team was it had quite a few flaws in my eyes being:
  • Pairing colbur cress with Rain sweeper swampert; now while this is an okay thing since rain isn't always going to be up the problem lies with the teams archetype. Cress is quite the momentum sponge on what appears to be a bulky offence and on top of already lacking leftovers it may be forced to check powerful mons within rain.
  • Sub Gyarados can be a problem if it gets in cleanly versus swampert and DDs twice since even after dark pulse gyara can eat an ice shard from mamoswine.
  • Honestly I don't see how this team deals with roar cune, I don't even need cm just roar cune wins.
I started with offering you some sort of counter play to suicune:
--------------->


Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute / Dazzling Gleam
- Giga Drain
- Psychic
- Nasty Plot

  • Celebi will offer you a switch in to opposing waters, let you beat any variant of suicune, and offer you a win condition that isn't so passive. The decision between substitute and dazzling is really up to how you feel about gyarados match ups while dazzling gleam gives you another hydreigon check. So how you go about this is up to you but personally I would go with the dazzling.
Thats about all I wanted to change to be honest apart from that you have counterplay to most Pokemon and Play-style so good luck to mr.snippur.


you know what. this only happens with killintime's rates. fuck killintime.

and now there are 3 gg.
 

IronBullet

Astronomy Domine
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Our next challenger is Highways!

Round 1: Highways vs Killintime

Thanks Sun for the team :)
Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Ability: Guts
EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
- Knock Off
- Mach Punch

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wing Attack
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

I've built this team around an offensive core of Conkeldurr and Mega Aerodactyl. Bulk Up Conk is a really cool answer for bulky waters like Alomomola, and a strong wincon against bulky builds in general which Mega Aero has trouble with. In turn, Mega Aerodactyl deals with fast special attackers and puts a lot of pressure against common Conk checks like Celebi and Flying-types like Tornadus and Crobat. I chose a Pursuit variant in order to permanently remove Conk checks, such as Alakazam and Chandelure, from the game.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 244 HP / 244 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic Spikes
- Scald
- Rapid Spin
- Haze

Entry hazards can prove to be a massive pain when facing opposing balance teams, especially considering Aero's SR weakness, so I went with Tentacruel to combat this. Tentacruel provides the team with a useful Fighting check and importantly a countermeasure against Toxic Spikes, something which a majority of the team struggles against. It also sets up Toxic Spikes itself to aid Conkeldurr in wallbreaking and to potentially set up a late-game Mega Aero sweep.

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roar
- Calm Mind
- Rest

Suicune was added primarily to provide a sturdy counter to Fire-types since both Tenta and Aero lack recovery. It also keeps a huge number of physical threats at bay for the team, including the likes of Mega Swampert, Mega Aero and Entei. Additionally, it takes advantage of Toxic Spikes itself with Roar, and provides the team with another strong wincon.

Whimsicott @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Encore
- Energy Ball
- U-turn

Whimsicott provides the team with a check to bulky Waters and crucially Hydreigon. Its excellent typing also makes it a solid check to the likes of Krookodile, Mienshao, Heracross, Kyurem, Mega Sharpedo and Mega Swampert. It can also Encore threatening sweepers into moves that don't particularly hurt the rest of my team as a last-ditch attempt to stop them. The moveset is standard, with Energy Ball + Moonblast for STAB and U-turn to gain momentum for the team.

Mamoswine @ Life Orb
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 29 HP
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard

The team lacked rocks and a strong wallbreaking presence. Since I felt that most of the team's defensive bases were covered well, I went with Mamo in the last slot to provide rocks and some much-needed power. It also gave me another priority user, which is a blessing for any team, while its Ground typing provided the team with a welcome Electric immunity.

Good luck guys! Please submit your rate to Kreme, Sun and me by 29 March.
 

Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Round 3: sniperr vs Kreme

credits to Pak (Eyan for giving it to me :3) for making the team :D

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Trick Room

This team was build around OTR Reuniclus. It's a very potent sweeper after it sets up Trick Room especially against offensive teams where it can take advantage of it being faster under Trick Room to fire off powerful Life Orb boosted attacks. Psyshock is chosen over Psychic in order to do more damage against Pokemon with high SpD such as Blissey and Florges. Shadow Ball offers coverage against Ghost-types such as Doublade and Psychic-types such as Celebi.

Sylveon @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell

Reuniclus is very vulnerable to Dark-type attacks especially without any form of defensive or special defence investment. Hence, having a Pokemon such as Sylveon that can absorb those hits is useful. It also provides Wish support to the team has many members such as Reuniclus lack recovery. The moveset is standard.

Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Roost
- Taunt

Stall breaker Hydreigon allows this team to pressure defensive teams to a greater extent and patches up the weakness to Chandelure that this team suffers from. It helps weaken walls and soften up Psychic-types in order to aid Reuniclus' sweep. Moveset is standard.

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

This is a typical Swampert moveset with the only difference being that it is Mega Swampert. The additional bulk helps improve the teams match up against Pokemon such as Nidoqueen and Entei but at the cost of recovery. It also benefits from the increased damage output. Damp allows it to prevent Azelf or Metagross from exploding on it, pre evolution.

Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance

Doublade gives this team an important answer to Pokemon that can potentially cause big problems such as opposing Reuniclus or Lucario. With Shadow Claw it's able to check Pokemon such as Gyarados better. It also helps out with Beedrill by virtue of its typing. Something which this team sorely lacked a reliable answer to. Something that doublade helps out with.

Crobat @ Sky Plate
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Due to the slow nature of this team, it needed something fast to make up for that, That's where Crobat comes in. It provides hazard control, another check to fighting types such as conkeldurr (useful if they pack poison jab for sylveon). It also helps checks Beedrill considering they usually carry coverage to hit Doublade. Once again, the moveset is standard.


deadline is 6 / 4 / 17

happy rating guys :)
 
Last edited:

Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Killintime vs Highways
Jury Decision: Killintime wins
Result: Highways does not advance


Highways correctly identified threats to this team in Celebi and Mega Swampert. Stating that the Celebi can just clean this team by setting up one nasty plot against something like a Suicune or Tentacruel. He also mentions that Mega Swampert can be an issue if Suicune is caught resting due to it not carrying Sleep Talk. To help with this he suggested running Pin Missle Foretress over Tentacruel as this would allow the team to check several Pokemon better such as Metagross, Sylveon and most importantly Celebi. His also recommended Roar + Sleep Talk Suicune to help check Pokemon such as Mega Swampert without being completely vulnerable while Rest-ing. However, one thing he failed to address was the long term match up of said threats against this team. Without any Wish Support Foretress is extremely prone to being worn down leaving it potentially vulnerable to a Celebi late game. Removal of Toxic Spikes and Calm Mind on Suicune also makes this team struggle to pressure defensive ones. Killintime had suggested that Sylveon be run over Whimsicott which helps compensate for Suicune's lack of sleep talk while providing a better match up to Conkeldurr, at the cost of making this team relatively worse off against Water-types. He also provided an optional change of Sludge Wave > Haze on Tentacruel to limit Celebi's ability to set up. Despite not adding a dedicated counter to Celebi, his changes ensured that there would be counter play for it that ensured that it wouldn't sweep, due to Pursuit on Mega Aerodactyl being able to revenge KO it. Keeping Toxic Spikes + Calm Mind Suicune intact he ensured that his team would have a better match up against opposing defensive teams. Taking all this in to account, Killintime has been deemed the winner and as a result highways does not advance. Thanks for participating! if you have any doubts feel free to approach one of us. i'll edit in the rates soon.
 

Cynde

toasty
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
sniperr vs Kreme
Jury Decision: Sniper wins
Result: Sniper advances

Sniper correctly identified the team's biggest issue in Suicune. While Hydreigon is able to soft check it, it cannot do so reliably, especially considering the type of teams that Suicune is usually found one which include a Fairy-type, one of Taunt Hydreigon's biggest counters. He also notes that the team was somewhat weak to Lucario and Infernape as well, the special variants mainly. He started off by replacing Swampert with Power-up Punch Seismitoad which helps this team check Suicune. He also suggested replacing Crobat with Tentacruel as these two changes greatly improve the team's match up against Lucario and Infernape. Between Tentacruel and Seismitoad, they are both able to help the team to check Suicune. However, this makes the team relatively slow so he suggested that Scarf Hydreigon be run in order to patch up the team's match up against faster, more offensive teams, and help clean up if Reuniclus is unable to do so. However these changes do leave the team more vulnerable to Beedrill which could have been accommodated for by say, utilising Pursuit on Doublade. But overall was a solid rate. Kreme's changes provided the team with more breaking power via Spikes on Foretress > Doublade which aid Reuniclus' cleaning and Hydreigon in breaking. With the loss of Doublade the team becomes more vulnerable to Gyarados so he recommends that HP Electric be run on Swampert to compensate for it. Finally he suggests that Taunt be used in order to limit the recovery of Pokemon such as Sylveon and prevent hazard removal. Overall, Sniper's rate ensured that the team had a better match up against most of the meta and as a result sniper advances to the final round!
 
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