ORAS UU Viability Ranking Thread V6

As far as new nominations go, the team considered adding Pangoro to C-, but I'd like to hear what the community thinks of that before going forward with it (Tony, this is your time to shine). Happy posting!


:D

Seriously, Pangoro is pretty shit. However, it's not completely shit. Actually it's not as much shit as it's swamped by Hydro Pump! the insane competition it faces both as a Fighting-type and as a Dark-type. Conkeldurr and Krookodile would probably be the biggest offenders of this, as Conkeldurr is the premier Fighting-type to set up on and break down bulkier teams, while nothing spams a strong Knock Off better than Krook at the moment. It's not all bad, though. Pangoro can run two neat sets, with especially Swords Dance being quite nice, but Choice Band also being option.

For me Choice Band is largely outclassed by both Krook and almost all other Fighting-types in UU, bar maybe the niche Parting Shot has (Mienshao and Infernape can U-turn anyway, though), but the Swords Dance set holds a unique spot in my view. With Iron Fist boosted Drain Punch actually packing quite the punch (hue) and STAB boosted Knock Off being as annoying as it is, this thing is actually pretty difficult to deal with. It gets both Poison Jab and Gunk Shot to beat its way past Sylveon and Whimsicott (and Florges!), too. And vs. offense, by far the toughest match-up for Pangoro, these moves are coming off of a high attack stat, have absolutely perfect coverage and are awkward to switch in on. Realistically it's defensive typing is pretty horrible, it's defensive stats aren't fantastic either and to top it off it's pretty slow. It can deal damage really well, but it's extremely niche and in almost all scenarios there's something that will fit your team better.

All of that being said, this thing is a ton of fun to use and I recommend you all try it out. It's admittedly not that great in UU, but it is viable, and that's the discussion point. Poor Pangoro is currently not ranked in any of the ORAS VR threads on Smogon either, for what it's worth. Give this thing a place to call home: Pangoro to C-! :D
 


:D

Seriously, Pangoro is pretty shit. However, it's not completely shit. Actually it's not as much shit as it's swamped by Hydro Pump! the insane competition it faces both as a Fighting-type and as a Dark-type. Conkeldurr and Krookodile would probably be the biggest offenders of this, as Conkeldurr is the premier Fighting-type to set up on and break down bulkier teams, while nothing spams a strong Knock Off better than Krook at the moment. It's not all bad, though. Pangoro can run two neat sets, with especially Swords Dance being quite nice, but Choice Band also being option.

For me Choice Band is largely outclassed by both Krook and almost all other Fighting-types in UU, bar maybe the niche Parting Shot has (Mienshao and Infernape can U-turn anyway, though), but the Swords Dance set holds a unique spot in my view. With Iron Fist boosted Drain Punch actually packing quite the punch (hue) and STAB boosted Knock Off being as annoying as it is, this thing is actually pretty difficult to deal with. It gets both Poison Jab and Gunk Shot to beat its way past Sylveon and Whimsicott (and Florges!), too. And vs. offense, by far the toughest match-up for Pangoro, these moves are coming off of a high attack stat, have absolutely perfect coverage and are awkward to switch in on. Realistically it's defensive typing is pretty horrible, it's defensive stats aren't fantastic either and to top it off it's pretty slow. It can deal damage really well, but it's extremely niche and in almost all scenarios there's something that will fit your team better.

All of that being said, this thing is a ton of fun to use and I recommend you all try it out. It's admittedly not that great in UU, but it is viable, and that's the discussion point. Poor Pangoro is currently not ranked in any of the ORAS VR threads on Smogon either, for what it's worth. Give this thing a place to call home: Pangoro to C-! :D
Pangoro gets Bullet Punch in SM :D
 
So I noticed a couple things in the vr that struck me as somewhat out of order so i'd like to make a couple nominations for two offensive steel types in the tier.
First off I'd like to nominate a raise for Escavalier to A5
escav.png


Escav is one of the best anti-meta mons in the tier right now, countering some of the most used and viable pokemon in the tier, Celebi and Sylveon. With the near omnipresence of cleric Sylveon in the tier and the plenty of other mons this thing hard checks (Reuniclus, M-Aero, Hydrei, Cresselia, and M-Beedrill just to name a few) Escav comes in for essentially free and gets easy damage off on other mons. A lot of teams find their only switchin to escav is fat water types like suicune or frail fire types like entei, neither of whom enjoy a knock off and the latter really doesn't enjoy drill run. On top of this it has a good movepool with coverage options in drill run and knock and nice utility as a pursuit trapper, and theres quite a few viable sets to run such as the SD set which is an excellent wincon vs fat teams when paired with a cleric, the band set which 2hkos suicune from full with megahorn, and the tank protect set which is incredibly annoying for the numerous choice-locked things that switch into it that it can scout.

Finally I wanna nominate a drop for Doublade to B+
doublade.png


In my opinion Doublade has been going downhill recently since it doesn't do any of its jobs terribly well. As a sylveon check it gets blown away by shadow ball and as a normal check it doesnt function very well either since the only normal types it checks well are Snorlax which is often paired with a pursuit trapper and Blissey which is usually paired with some fat water type that walls it to death and it can't do anything to, not to mention that its a fighting check that loses to conkeldurr (and the legendary pangoro), and a spinblocker that loses to Tentacruel and Blastoise. On top of this its fairly low special defense allows its sweeps to be cut short by most special breakers and its low speed means it needs to run shadow sneak, usually giving up strong ghost stab or important fighting coverage. Overall while its certainly not a bad mon in the tier and has a sizable niche, I feel it just is really hard to fit on teams since it loses to alot of the things its supposed to check and doesnt offer much utility in return, so it would fit much better in B+.

In sum Escavalier offers a better sylveon check, a hard counter to celebi, offensive utility in knock off and protect with naturally higher attack and spdef while Doublade falls short of checking the things it desperately needs to and requiring set up in order to deal damage, on top of being a one trick pony set wise. Hope you enjoyed thanks for the read :]
 
So I noticed a couple things in the vr that struck me as somewhat out of order so i'd like to make a couple nominations for two offensive steel types in the tier.
First off I'd like to nominate a raise for Escavalier to A5 View attachment 73469

Escav is one of the best anti-meta mons in the tier right now, countering some of the most used and viable pokemon in the tier, Celebi and Sylveon. With the near omnipresence of cleric Sylveon in the tier and the plenty of other mons this thing hard checks (Reuniclus, M-Aero, Hydrei, Cresselia, and M-Beedrill just to name a few) Escav comes in for essentially free and gets easy damage off on other mons. A lot of teams find their only switchin to escav is fat water types like suicune or frail fire types like entei, neither of whom enjoy a knock off and the latter really doesn't enjoy drill run. On top of this it has a good movepool with coverage options in drill run and knock and nice utility as a pursuit trapper, and theres quite a few viable sets to run such as the SD set which is an excellent wincon vs fat teams when paired with a cleric, the band set which 2hkos suicune from full with megahorn, and the tank protect set which is incredibly annoying for the numerous choice-locked things that switch into it that it can scout.

Finally I wanna nominate a drop for Doublade to B+View attachment 73471

In my opinion Doublade has been going downhill recently since it doesn't do any of its jobs terribly well. As a sylveon check it gets blown away by shadow ball and as a normal check it doesnt function very well either since the only normal types it checks well are Snorlax which is often paired with a pursuit trapper and Blissey which is usually paired with some fat water type that walls it to death and it can't do anything to, not to mention that its a fighting check that loses to conkeldurr (and the legendary pangoro), and a spinblocker that loses to Tentacruel and Blastoise. On top of this its fairly low special defense allows its sweeps to be cut short by most special breakers and its low speed means it needs to run shadow sneak, usually giving up strong ghost stab or important fighting coverage. Overall while its certainly not a bad mon in the tier and has a sizable niche, I feel it just is really hard to fit on teams since it loses to alot of the things its supposed to check and doesnt offer much utility in return, so it would fit much better in B+.

In sum Escavalier offers a better sylveon check, a hard counter to celebi, offensive utility in knock off and protect with naturally higher attack and spdef while Doublade falls short of checking the things it desperately needs to and requiring set up in order to deal damage, on top of being a one trick pony set wise. Hope you enjoyed thanks for the read :]
No i disagree with you. Why do people hate this pokemon ? Doublade's role isnt to check Choice Specs Sylveon or to be an unstoppable spinblocker. HO Spikes stack teams that really want a reliable spinblocker use Sableye... It's unfair to criticise Doublade on it. And it's not easy to trap at all its defense stat is huge, only Krookodile can really do that but it's 2koed by Sacred Sword. The stabbed priority and the flying, rock and fighting type resistances are a really huge advantage over Escavalier. Escavalier isnt going to run Pursuit, Knock Off, Drill Run, Swords Dance in the same set either. You can't put it on your bulky offense and say it's shit because it's a steel type that can't switch into Kyurem, Sylveon, Conkeldurr and break walls all at once. It's not a good wallbreaker anyway it loses to most walls but it's a good sweeper. It fits better on HO as a win-condition paired with wallbreakers to aid its sweep and provide a switch-in to pokemon like Crobat, Mega-Aerodactyl, Mienshao, Cobalion etc which Escavalier can't do. Now is it really worth A ranks idk but to me Escavalier shouldn't be higher than it.
 
So I noticed a couple things in the vr that struck me as somewhat out of order so i'd like to make a couple nominations for two offensive steel types in the tier.
First off I'd like to nominate a raise for Escavalier to A5 View attachment 73469

Escav is one of the best anti-meta mons in the tier right now, countering some of the most used and viable pokemon in the tier, Celebi and Sylveon. With the near omnipresence of cleric Sylveon in the tier and the plenty of other mons this thing hard checks (Reuniclus, M-Aero, Hydrei, Cresselia, and M-Beedrill just to name a few) Escav comes in for essentially free and gets easy damage off on other mons. A lot of teams find their only switchin to escav is fat water types like suicune or frail fire types like entei, neither of whom enjoy a knock off and the latter really doesn't enjoy drill run. On top of this it has a good movepool with coverage options in drill run and knock and nice utility as a pursuit trapper, and theres quite a few viable sets to run such as the SD set which is an excellent wincon vs fat teams when paired with a cleric, the band set which 2hkos suicune from full with megahorn, and the tank protect set which is incredibly annoying for the numerous choice-locked things that switch into it that it can scout.

Finally I wanna nominate a drop for Doublade to B+View attachment 73471

In my opinion Doublade has been going downhill recently since it doesn't do any of its jobs terribly well. As a sylveon check it gets blown away by shadow ball and as a normal check it doesnt function very well either since the only normal types it checks well are Snorlax which is often paired with a pursuit trapper and Blissey which is usually paired with some fat water type that walls it to death and it can't do anything to, not to mention that its a fighting check that loses to conkeldurr (and the legendary pangoro), and a spinblocker that loses to Tentacruel and Blastoise. On top of this its fairly low special defense allows its sweeps to be cut short by most special breakers and its low speed means it needs to run shadow sneak, usually giving up strong ghost stab or important fighting coverage. Overall while its certainly not a bad mon in the tier and has a sizable niche, I feel it just is really hard to fit on teams since it loses to alot of the things its supposed to check and doesnt offer much utility in return, so it would fit much better in B+.

In sum Escavalier offers a better sylveon check, a hard counter to celebi, offensive utility in knock off and protect with naturally higher attack and spdef while Doublade falls short of checking the things it desperately needs to and requiring set up in order to deal damage, on top of being a one trick pony set wise. Hope you enjoyed thanks for the read :]
So, I agree with the Escavalier nomination, but I think that you messed the things when you talked about Doublade. Doublade isn't used as a spinblocker, nor a Sylveon check, it's used as a wincon versus frailer teams. You're not clicking Swords Dance when your opponent has a Suicune/Milotic anyway, unless they're in the range of a +2 Shadow Claw (the best Doublade set imo). Doublade's niche is checking Fighting-types decently, like Cobalion and Mienshao, while still being a wincondition to use when its checks are KOed, what's actually really easy since only Water-types can reliably switch in it, and Celebi or Mega Sceptile are the most common Doublade partners anyway, so saying that it loses to Water-type spinners is invalid anyway, because how I said before, it isn't used as a spinblocker.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-469472339

I guess that this replay is showing perfectly Doublade's valuable niche on the tier. If you play around your opponent well with it, trying to keep it healthy and eliminating its checks, you can easily clean the late game with a priority Shadow Sneak, not to mention that you're bulky enough to take a some really powerful attacks from Pokémon like Mega Swampert and Krookodile thanks to its really good natural bulk. Note that Doublade clicked Swords Dance once and it almost cleaned the late-game with +1 Attack, what's actually impressive. Note that I KOed Krookodile and weakened Mega Swampert and Infernape enough to let Mega Sceptile won the game, thanks to Doublade's support.

Aside of its niche cleaning the mid/late-game, Doublade is a really nice check to Psychic-types like CM Reuniclus/Cresselia, and its immunity to Fighting-type is really valuable actually (I don't even know why you mentioned Pangoro when the tier has Cobalion, Mienshao, Heracross etc.), anyway, I just needed to clarify that Doublade is better fitted in A5 than in B+.
 
Nominating Yanmega to C+

I've seen the arguments for this already, so let me point out the flaws 1st:

It requires hazard removal, this is undeniable. The hazard removals we have on the tier do not have great sinergy with it. Yanmega is teambuilding limitant to some point. So does fletchinder, which is C+.

It is a late game sweeper, relies on teamates for some of the damage. But the output it brings on opponents is much better than any C rank. Virizion and Sharpedo: both are usually walled by most of the teams using the same checks for other higher ranked mons.

Now, i wouldn't have brought this up if i haven't seen it work in practice: i subbed a M-Sceptile for a Yanmega and my team improved although i have no ground type on it and run crobat as a defogger. You may think thats weird but its due to electric Pokémon aren't very viable at the moment, I haven't seen a team that runs 2 electric types succeed yet, M-amph is slow af. and fighting types being usually prepared for physical attackers like bat and aero.

Ive seen C+ mons fail at doing so many roles, yet yanmega does what it is expected for it to do and does not leave C, getting equaled by mons that are a lot easier to counterplay. The way it was commented feels like every team runs Espeed (not even talking bout entei only) to kill yanmega on the switch.

Also, something that i'm not sure if it was discussed in our current meta, but i'd like a drop on M-sceptile to A4 or at least A3

M-sceptile uses the mega slot. It does pack a punch. But it packs a punch against...? Fairies are so common nowadays that i don't feel like its worthy to run it. It gets walled by a great amount of mons, its really frail, specially for priority which will get it with no resists. Cannot be switched into some waters due to ice coverage. It has few to 0 opportunities to switch in actually. The moves it runs for coverage outside of its main stabs are Focus miss and some random hidden power. Many of the things that come in to revenge kill M-scept or exert pressure into the opposing team aren't even OHKOed by it, and are very popular. Even a SPd mega ampharos can come in, take around 60% damage, OHKO sceptile and in case predict fails mold breaker does not let it take advantage of volt switch.

It has immediate damage, but the benefits from it aren't better than stuff that take a turn to set up. And if it does take a turn to set with a Swords dance set, its not justifiable over many other non-mega threateners we have in the tier.
 
mega-Scept is a good speedy mon against offense that doesn't lose to suicune like mega-aero and bee do
also fortress if hp fire
cobalion if fblast
etc.
it has its uses over the other speedy megas, as well as over other mons whether its speed or the option to switch moves
admittedly it loses pretty much to fairies aka sylveon, although it can run the SD set to surprise normal counters
 

Pearl

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Yanmega is not moving up unless the metagame shifts massively, so stop bringing it up every single chance you get please

i think i've mentioned the reasoning behind this somewhere in one of my previous posts, and i'm pretty sure there were at least 3 different users besides me trying to explain why that change should not be happening, so yeah it's time to stop
 
Nominating Yanmega to C+

I've seen the arguments for this already, so let me point out the flaws 1st:

It requires hazard removal, this is undeniable. The hazard removals we have on the tier do not have great sinergy with it. Yanmega is teambuilding limitant to some point. So does fletchinder, which is C+.

It is a late game sweeper, relies on teamates for some of the damage. But the output it brings on opponents is much better than any C rank. Virizion and Sharpedo: both are usually walled by most of the teams using the same checks for other higher ranked mons.

Now, i wouldn't have brought this up if i haven't seen it work in practice: i subbed a M-Sceptile for a Yanmega and my team improved although i have no ground type on it and run crobat as a defogger. You may think thats weird but its due to electric Pokémon aren't very viable at the moment, I haven't seen a team that runs 2 electric types succeed yet, M-amph is slow af. and fighting types being usually prepared for physical attackers like bat and aero.

Ive seen C+ mons fail at doing so many roles, yet yanmega does what it is expected for it to do and does not leave C, getting equaled by mons that are a lot easier to counterplay. The way it was commented feels like every team runs Espeed (not even talking bout entei only) to kill yanmega on the switch.

Also, something that i'm not sure if it was discussed in our current meta, but i'd like a drop on M-sceptile to A4 or at least A3

M-sceptile uses the mega slot. It does pack a punch. But it packs a punch against...? Fairies are so common nowadays that i don't feel like its worthy to run it. It gets walled by a great amount of mons, its really frail, specially for priority which will get it with no resists. Cannot be switched into some waters due to ice coverage. It has few to 0 opportunities to switch in actually. The moves it runs for coverage outside of its main stabs are Focus miss and some random hidden power. Many of the things that come in to revenge kill M-scept or exert pressure into the opposing team aren't even OHKOed by it, and are very popular. Even a SPd mega ampharos can come in, take around 60% damage, OHKO sceptile and in case predict fails mold breaker does not let it take advantage of volt switch.

It has immediate damage, but the benefits from it aren't better than stuff that take a turn to set up. And if it does take a turn to set with a Swords dance set, its not justifiable over many other non-mega threateners we have in the tier.
Sceptile is not supposed to kill every Pokemon in one hit. If it could do that while having the speed it did it would be banned lol. It's supposed to be used as a cleaner or revenge killer, or failing that chunking something with a decently powerful leaf storm, which does about half to cleric Sylveon (and at minimum 55% to specs, which means it can only switch into one leaf storm barring cleric support). It might not resist priority outside of aqua jet, but it lives priority from Entei and Conk, and 2hkos Entei with pulse and has a very high chance to ohko banded conk with leaf storm after rocks, meaning neither enjoys switching in. It's frail, sure, but you're not using it to take hits, you're bringing it in on a double switch, volt turn, or after sacking a mon, like every frail attacker. Water types might be able to ko with ice attacks, but most just die to leaf storm, hell gyara has a 56 percent chance to die to leaf storm after rocks if it is offensive. Tentacruel survives and kills Scept with ice beam, but it lacks recovery and can easily be put into ko range of leaf storm or pulse. If you look at calcs against a lot of the mons in the tier, Sceptile needs most of them softened up a bit (or a lot of it's something like blissey or p2 lol) before it can just run through a team with no effort, which applies to any cleaner, like mega aero or even dd mence when it was allowed in the tier. Mega Ampharos is mediocre anyways, and is easy enough to wear down into the 60% range considering it relies on rest, so it's not really an effective answer when it is always switching in since it's a pivot and outspeed by a ton of things. It feels like you're expecting Sceptile to wallbreak, which has never been its role. If we're judging every offensive mon on wall breaking potential, then we better drop every cleaner ever, because they're all going to struggle to kill things without prior damage. When you look at it as a cleaner, Sceptile does a hell of a good job at it, and that's why it really should stay

Also, please excuse any mistakes, I'm on mobile and my phone's auto correct hates it when I try to type something relating to Pokemon lol

Edit: Escav to A5
Escavalier has been getting a lot of hype for good reason, since it combines very high attack, a surprisingly spammable stab in megahorn, and despite its terrible speed, it has solid bulk and a good defensive typing. Others have highlighted why it's so good, so I'll just say that it deserves the rise.

Mega Obama to A5
Obama has an awesome offensive typing, blowing away most top tier mons with its stabs alone. The few things that resist them are steels, which lack recovery, and Entei, which doesn't like Earthquake. It's really anti meta, and despite its horrid defensive typing, its bulk is good enough to live most neutral attacks.
 
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Hi. Just wondering if the Espeon drop was a mistake or was just never mentioned. Idk if it was intentional, seeing as how Espy just recently rose to B, but any sort of explanation would be nice.
Also nominating Mega Abomasnow up to high B+/A5
To be honest, this thing is just WAY too good to be at the bottom of B+ right now. Teams almost always carry a water type as their ice resist, which is where that gargantuan power provided by STAB wood hammer comes in for this big guy. Mega Aboma just has so many things that allow it to thrive in the current meta, one of the most notable being the opportunity to setup or attack on one of the tier's most centralizing mons in Sylveon. If you look at th S-A5 ranks, you will notice that out of the 38 listed, this guy checks a little less than half. That is nothing short of amazing, and given that it's positive attributes are so valuable rn, this thing has way less opportunity cost than stuff like Froslass and Toxicroak.
 
Nominations:


Mienshao from A5 to A4
Mienshao's Choice Scarf set (aka the best set) is really scary versus every kind of archetype, since it allows Mienshao to bring a teammate safely due to how easy spam U-turn is. A good example is Mienshao's role in VoltTurn teams; it's probably the most reliable revenge killer that this archetype could bring because its Speed stat with Choice Scarf is impressive, and its checks are a) KOed by Mega Beedrill b) KOed by Rotom-Mow. What I want to say is that it's actually impossible regain the momentum versus a team with Mienshao unless you sack a Pokémon, and with some outplays and double switches, the momentum won't stay in opponent's side for too much time. I'd say that Mienshao is not only the best revenge killer for VoltTurn teams, in my opinion it's the best revenge killer in the tier since its coverage options allows it to OHKO Mega Beedrill and Gyarados with Stone Edge, or simply spam High Jump Kick versus teams that have very exploitable Fighting resists. Not to mention that it outspeeds and defeats the most of the Scarfers in the tier bar Infernape (I'm not mentioning Heliolisk because Scarf Heliolisk is just bad), like Choice Scarf Hydreigon and Choice Scarf Celebi.

Other sets like Life Orb with Regenerator and Choice Band with Reckless are really nice too, specially the later. I tried to use Choice Banded Mienshao in a team with Choice Scarf Heracross and it did really well at wallbreaking things that can stop a Heracross sweep. I wan to highlight the 2HKO on Sylveon with High Jump Kick and the OHKO in a lot of bulky things, like Milotic after Stealth Rock. Calcs? of course!

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 174-206 (44.1 - 52.2%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 312-367 (79.1 - 93.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos: 259-306 (67.4 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 240-283 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Mandibuzz: 265-313 (62.9 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 149-176 (45 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 243-286 (60.1 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 388-457 (93.7 - 110.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Whimsicott: 212-249 (81.2 - 95.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 263-310 (85.6 - 100.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 186-219 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


I think that Mienshao has too much qualities for A5, and I can easily see it aside of things like Mega Blastoise, Kyurem and Tornadus.



Metagross from A4 to A3
I'm doing this nomination based on Metagross' usefulness actually. It's not only a Stealth Rock setter, it's not only a Fairy resist, it's much more than this. Metagross 1v1s the most of the good hazard removal options in the tier, like Forretress, Empoleon and Tentacruel, thanks to Earthquake and the occasional Explosion. I like to run Explosion with Life Orb and a Jolly Nature, because Metagross OHKOes things like Mega Swampert after Stealth Rock with one Explosion if Stealth Rock is already in opponent's floor, not to mention that Empoleon and Tentacruel are always fearing an Earthquake, and Forretress have to scout for the lure set with Hidden Power Fire. Choice Band Metagross is an amazing wallbreaker too, being able to dismantle entire teams firing-up its powerful STAB moves, or using Trick in a hard wall like Forretress (that can't even take 2~3 Earthquakes after Stealth Rock, but still).

Its Lure set, how I said before, is really good right now and stuff like Swampert are not hard counters anymore, they're baits. Offensive Mega Swampert (at least I run enough Speed to outspeed Adamant Mega Swampert and enough Special Attack to OHKO it), standard Swampert has a high chance to be OHKOed after Stealth Rock by Grass Know if Metagross is holding Expert Belt and it's OHKOed by Life Orb Metagross. Defensive Forretress (although Specially Defensive Forretress is better right now) is OHKOed by Hidden Power Fire and Escavalier is 2HKOed. Meteor Mash still does a lot in things that it is supposed to do a lot and Earthquake still defeats Empoleon and Tentacruel 1v1, but Explosion is still an option to hit hard things and stop spinners/defoggers.

What I need to say is that Metagross can pick its counters by picking a set, and very few Pokémon have this quality actually. The pressure that it puts in offense thanks to Clear Body and a large movepool is sometimes scary if the opponent is unprepared for it, not to mention that Metagross can always surprise its opponents with unpopular options like Bullet Punch or Thunder Punch, that are really useful in specific matchups. I can't see Metagross being ranked in A4 since no other Pokémon in this ranking has the same qualities as Metagross.


Donphan from C do C-

I'll not waste my time explaining why this thing is trash and why other hazard removal options are better than it... Just drop it, and don't quote me saying "its choice band set has a niche since it has seed bomb and gunk shot to hit its checks blablabla" because as a Ground-type wallbreaker it's completely outclassed by Krookodile and Mamoswine, and as a spinner it's completely outclassed by... Any other spinner in the tier.

Other nominations:



Mega Abomasnow from B+ to A5

I'm really on the fence with this one. While Mega Abomasnow is an amazing wallbreaker and sometimes a mid- to late-game wincon, it's not hard to pressure offensively at all, even with priority Ice Shard, thanks to Steel-types being present in every team right now. I'm almost agreeing with this nomination because I saw Sam I Yam (aka Arbiter) playing a lot with Mega Abomasnow, and it's really scary versus Offense and Balance. I'll not write a lot about Mega Abomasnow because I think that Sam I Yam summed it really well here.


Escavalier from B+ to A5

I really like to use Escavalier actually. Not only because it's the only Celebi counter (Very few Celebi carry Hidden Power Fire actually), and I think that Escavalier does its roles really well since it counters a lot of other Pokémon, like Cleric Sylveon, Calm Mind Cresselia and non-Hidden Power Fire Mega Sceptile. Very few Balance teams have a solid answer for Escavalier actually, since people can't say that Tentacruel is an "answer" thanks to Drill Run, not to mention that it can run Pursuit if the matchup versus VoltTurn teams is really bad, since it allows Escavalier trap Celebi and Mega Beedrill. I'll not write a lot about this one too because I think that notewire summed it really well too.
 

Manipulative

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I'm definitely in agreement with Mega Aboma deserving to be in A5. MAboma has always been dangerous, but Sylveon has gave it so much more room to be a threat since access to Soundproof in its base form lets it generate free turns. Getting an SD up against Sylveon can easily be a game changer. I'm pretty sure you're all familiar with how difficult it is to deal with a boosted MAboma. Both of its typing are really good offensively, and priority Ice has always been great.


I feel that Escav also sticks out a bit in B+ and can fit for A5 for the same reasons previously mentioned. Its typing and bulk lets it perform really well in this metagame against some key threats. It has a considerable amount of immediate power between its 135 Base Attack and a 120 BP Stab in Megahorn, but it's also not very rare for it to find an opportunity to set up an SD and be just that much more threatening. Access to Pursuit also of course sets it apart from the rest of B+.



As for nominations of my own...

I feel like Heliolisk is better suited for A5. B+ was a fine rank for it before, but since the A ranks have been split up even further, I feel that it can easily move up. Electric types are really good in this meta and Helio is among the most efficient. Dry Skin and pretty good natural speed is what sets it above Rotom-C. Between a standard moveset of Volt Switch, TBolt, Hyper Voice, and a coverage move of choice in that last slot, paired with Specs, Heliolisk is often able to put a great amount of pressure on the opposing team and shouldn't be taken lightly.


I also think that Mega Aero should absolutely be S. While I don't believe it's anywhere near the same level of brokenness as Hydreigon nor Celebi, that doesn't take away from how metagame defining it is and always has been. It's one of the most influential mons that have been in ORAS UU from start to finish, only being rivaled by Hydreigon imo (Suicune too, but I personally find MAero to be much more influential). That shouldn't be of surprise. We're talking about the best mega and single fastest mon in the tier, who also has considerably good bulk, good typing, a good ability, perfectly fine immediate power, and of course is quite diverse. With access to moves such as a boosted Pursuit, Aqua Tail, Crunch, Hone Claws, and more, it's often able to adapt to exactly what its team needs and has the ability to overcome many of its checks and counters. MAero has been one of UU's best for a really long time, and I find that not having it in S rank just undersells the gigantic impact it has always had on the tier.


I have a more controversial nom as well that I would love to get input on. Two months ago I wouldn't have expected myself to be posting this, but now I have some thoughts on why Conk could potentially go to S as well. I'll start off by briefly analyzing the rest of A1 (aside from Aero) before moving onto what sets Conk apart from them.

Entei has an absolutely incredible CB set, but that's also where it ends. Literally any other set you can use is a gimmick at the very best. A1 suits it perfectly because it's still insanely good, but being so one dimensional means that it shouldn't ever touch S. Krook has been acknowledged for its CB set as well for the most part. It has great typing, a great ability, fine stats, and so on. Pursuit is amazing. It also has a decent SR set that used to receive much more usage as well. However, I don't feel that those two sets have enough differences to say that Krook is diverse. While its CB set is still fantastic and I feel that it would have a better shot at S than Entei, I still think that A1 is a more accurate placement for it. Sylveon actually has two really, really good sets in Cleric and Specs, as well as some obscure sets that aren't the worst, but I also don't feel like any of its sets really warrant it S rank.

Conk, on the other hand, not only has two absolutely amazing sets in Bulk Up and CB, but also has two other at least decent sets in AV and LO Sheer Force, though the latter hasn't received much usage at all. Let me put more emphasis on those first two sets though. Conk's natural strength and decent bulk, alongside a boosting move like Bulk Up, definitely makes it one of the mons that you watch out for the most in this tier, regardless of what playstyle you're using. It demolishes any relevant stall build that lacks a Sylv or Florges, while still being able to put in a great amount of work against balance or even offense. Also, being able to spam CB + Iron Fist boosted Hammer Arms, and having a vast amount of coverage options to pick off so called counters, is terrifying for the opposing team to say the least. Sure, it's not exactly as appealing as spamming CB Sacred Fires, but there's still no denying how amazing CB Conk is. Between these two sets alone, Conk is a dominant force in UU and just shits on the entire tier. It's impossible to be able to counter both of these sets. It's rarely useless, likely being able to pick up at least one kill in any given battle. Unlike the rest of A1, not only does Conk have some amazing sets (yes, plural), but it also has insane diversity to back it up. I think it definitely deserves some consideration for S, but at the very least, should go to the top of A1.
 
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I feel that since it is generally agreed upon that Suicune, Hydreigon, and Celebi are all a step above everything else, we could possibly move Mega Aero to S-, as I feel that would show that it is better than the rest of A1, but not as good as the big three. I do feel Conk is better than Sylveon, Krookodile, and Entei, so I wouldn't be opposed to either move it to S-, or top of A1. I do agree with aero rising though, even without the addition of S-, as I feel it is quite a bit better than the rest of A1. I do also agree with heliolisk rising to A5. Specs is just so good right now, being able to chunk almost anything with its stab moves alone, as most people will only use Hydra, Celebi, or Krook as their electric resists, and all of these can be severely dented by hyper voice or coverage. This thing is busted and should move up right now.
 

Hilomilo

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While we wait for the next update, I just wanted to share my thoughts on some rises and drops that I think should happen.
Mega Abomasnow up to A5 This is currently the best example of a mon that's criminally underranked. This big guy sets up on the most used pokemon in the entire tier (Sylveon) and can't be touched by the likes of Celebi, Earthquake Gyarados, Cresselia, bulky waters, and so much more. Sure it's slow, and Entei's prevalence sucks for it, but it puts a shit ton of work in once fire type opponents are removed, and almost always can get a kill. It's definitely more of a low risk-high reward pokemon than a lot of other stuff in B+ right now (Toxicroak, Frolass, etc.)
Escavalier up to A5
Are we seriously going to bump every bulky steel type BUT Escav up to A5? This thing is the tier's best answer to Celebi, and can successfully check everything in ranks S-A2 bar stuff like Mega Swampert or Entei. It's insane natural offensive presence and defensive capabilities go really well with the steady increase of balance in this meta, and the ability to blanket check over half of the stuff in A5 or higher is beyond valuable to a team, and certainly A-rank material to me.
Machamp up to B-
I know that we just dropped this thing, but two subranks in two months is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. I agree, this thing faces an overwhelming amount of pressure from Conkeldurr as a guts or AV user, but has its main niche of no guard dynamic punch gotten any less valuable? In all honesty, Machamp is still one of the most frustrating pokemon to face in this meta just because it gets decent power and guaranteed confusion off of dynamic punch and ghosts don't serve as reliable answers given its access to knock off. Perfect accuracy confusion moves are broken, especially when a mon with passable bulk and a sky high attack stat can continously fire them off. Way better than stuff like Noivern and Zoroark.
Arcanine up to B+
Now that about half of B+ has risen to A3-5, it seems like the right call to rise this thing as its a lot more comparable to the stuff in there right now. Decent offensive presence and speed, WoW, intimidate, recovery, and phazing or priority is amazing role compression for a defensive mon, and while that rocks weakness really sucks, this guy forces switches and is hands down one of the meta's best status spreaders right now. Matches up against common cores in Sylv/Celebi/Krookodile really well and is just a really solid defensive mon in the current meta.
These two up to A5
Ok, I'd be lying to myself if I said Sylveon's presence hasn't effected these two, but the change in expectations for A ranked pokemon should surely mean that these two find themselves in at least A5. Florges is a great wincon on balance teams and has the niche of wish + synthesis that allows it to separate itself greatly from Sylveon as a calm mind user. It's better as a special tank under some circumstances and can fire off uninvested moonblasts with its great natural special attack against stuff like Infernape and Tornadus. As for Whimsicott, I'm going to go ahead and quote something Adaam said regarding the thing way back towards the beginning of this thread:
Whimsicott is a catch all pivot for offense that checks set up sweepers, physical Waters, and Dragons in one team slot while providing a powerful speed tier and amazing utility moves in Memento, Tailwind, and Stun Spore. The amount of utility it provides is more than enough to justify its A- rank despite its mediocre bulk and low offensive presence, although invested Moonblasts do dent a lot of Pokemon like Cobalion.
Even though it faces stiff competition offensively from Sylveon, Whimsicott is still able to do all of the things Adaam mentioned extraordinarily well and is a fantastic support pokemon. One thing that I always account for when team building is how much natural power my set up sweepers have unboosted, and that's definitely a byproduct of Whimsicott. Overall, these two are fantastic team supporters that as utility/support pokes, should go right up in A5 with Blissey and Alomomola.

As for drops, I think that Doublade should drop to B+, as it fails to properly check Sylveon even with eviolite (takes at least half its hp away) and has a lot of other flaws that prevent it from doing its job extremely well (covered by Notewire quite nicely). Donphan should drop to C-, since its choice band set is just eclipsed by stuff like Mamo and Krook and even Rhyperior, and it should never be used as a spinner with Tentacruel and Forretress available. Lastly, Togetic could go unranked, since I honestly can't think of anything this mon does anymore that warrants a team slot. Baton pass is banned, which ruins its chance to shine as a NP passer, and Sylveon completely blows it off the map as a cleric. Thanks for reading everyone! And let's enjoy 6th gen UU while we can :(
 
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I think Moltres deserves a rise up to A5 or B+ at the very least. I have used Moltres extensively in UU and it has a pretty solid niche as a defogger and anti-lead on stall teams. It can switch into most common hazards and defog the rocks straight away. It also has pressure so the pp of Defog will outlast that of Stealth Rocks. Important in longer matches! (in stall v stall it's generally the person who runs out of pp for the hazard/hazard removing move first who loses). The only hazard setters it loses to that I can think of are offensive Empoleon, Offensive Mega-Pert (sometimes you can still get a burn on this anyway) and Maero. Sometimes Toxic Maggron and Bliss can be harder to deal with but pressure gives you the upper hand in these situations. There might be a couple of others I'm forgetting but it beats most entry hazard setters in the tier.

Moltres also has tools to beat many of its switchins - it gets Will-o-wisp which it can use to deter Maero for example. Its defensive typing means it's really easy to send in and it will usually get off a burn before it leaves. It also checks a lot of pokemon stall typically has trouble dealing with, like Mabomasnow and Chandelure. It also has a good matchup against many top threats (Celebi, Krook without stone edge, Scarf Hydreigon, Conkeldurr, Sylveon). It's also quite fast (for a defensive pokemon) and can creep anything up until about Mamoswine really, though usually I stop at Timid Hoopa.

Moltres' biggest flaw - and really the only thing stopping it from being a staple in UU stall - is how its typing is a double edged sword. Fire/Flying gives it an excellent, unique set of resistances, but the double rocks weakness makes a lot of people really afraid of using it. It constrains teambuilding around it because you need a second hazard control pokemon alongside Moltres, but this isn't really as much of a disaster as it sounds. Building for stall is often very restricted whether you use Moltres or not, so I would hardly call that a real issue, and double hazard control is pretty viable in stall tbh. Often the rocks weakness means your opponent will be very eager to set up hazards and you can use this knowledge to your advantage. So while it does have this one pretty serious flaw, that doesn't make it deserving of C rank in all honestly.

To back up these claims here is a replay of Moltres putting in work against an opposing stall team. (My opponent was #1 on the ladder at the time).
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-477401092

Here is another ladder replay - in which my opponent is using the same Moltres as me! He shows it can be viable on balance teams as well.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/uu-474931358

Here is the set for those who are interested.

Moltres @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 164 SpD / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Air Slash
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog

I hope that was enough - please consider Moltres for A5/B+ ... It's very good!
 
Yeah moltres can be suuuuuuper annoying against like non hyper offense teams as its unique typing walls/checks a lot of stuff including but not limited to
cobalion w/o edge
fairies
celebi
krook kinda w/o edge
band entei with prediction
conk
etc
WoW is also a pain in the ass for offensive teams as they usually don't run cleric support.
on stall teams moltres gets exponentially more annoying as stall teams should be running solid counters to things like mega aero and water types so you cant even really punish it that much.
advantages over defensive arcanine include ground immunity, flying stab, fighting resist, more PP (roost vs morning sun), defog.
sub toxic can also be annoying.
i stopped playing uu since sun and moon came out a few days ago, but in the days before i had been seeing a lot of molters on the ladder and its always a pain lol
 
Still pushing for Durant to move up from B-. Durant is a speedy option for an easy sweep in certain team setups. Durant's Hustle ability plus Hone Claws (+1 Acc.) can make it an extremely strong physical sweeper with access to many moves that take out some of UU's bigger threats. It gets access to Iron Head, X-Scissor, Stone Edge, Crunch, Superpower, and Shadow Claw, providing coverage against basically every typing in the tier. Durant can be run with a variety of different sets, including Choice Scarf + Jolly/Adamant, Choice Band + Jolly/Adamant, Life Orb + Jolly/Adamant, and of course, Leftovers + Jolly/Adamant. Durant's big hole lies in its Hustle ability, lowering the accuracy of its moves. However, Hone Claws makes up for Hustle's downside, so the combination of Hustle (+Atk, -Acc) and Hone Claws (+Atk, +Acc) will make Durant a great sweeper for the majority of threats in UU, including Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Abomasnow, Hydreigon, Celebi, Mega Sceptile, Sylveon, and Entei (As Mega Sceptile and Mega Aerodactyl naturally outspeed Durant, and Hydreigon is usually run Scarfed, Durant + Scarf is usually the set needed to take these three out). Durant's high Speed, Attack, and Defense stats give it the ability to be a sweeper for any team in UU, and Banded or Life Orb sets can be partnered with Baton Pass/Sub Ninjask to negate the need to use Scarf.

Also, I think Slurpuff should move up from B. Taking a look at Slurpuff, it can be run with two different sets: Special and Physical, both with Sitrus Berry/Unburden and Timid/Modest or Jolly/Adamant. Slurpuff's wide special movepool, including Surf, Thunderbolt, Draining Kiss, Dazzling Gleam, Flamethrower, Psychic, and Energy Ball allows it to run Calm Mind + Three Moves with a sitrus berry, activating unburden after it is able to power itself up with Calm Minds. Even a +1 SpA, +1 SpD, Unburden Slurpuff is capable of a lot, having so much coverage to take out so many of UU's dangerous members. On the other hand, B-Drum Slurpuff tends to be a very dangerous member of any team, having access to Play Rough, Drain Punch and Return which can cover basically any typing. Getting the B-Drum off will give you a speedy and powerful sweeper with very few weaknesses. However, Slurpuff is a VERY risky option. It relies mostly on setup, and if you are unable to get off the B-Drum or live a single hit then Slurpuff is useless. Slurpuff has mediocre base stats in HP, Def, and SpD (Though the last one can be changed with the Calm Mind/Sitrus/Unburden set) and this makes it used much less as it is very frail and even a single Super Effective hit can OHKO it. Overall, however, Slurpuff and Durant are both very versatile members of BL2 who should be in UU, and they both possess the flexibility to be used on any kind of team, which is why I am opting for a rise for them both.
 
Disagreeing with the Puff nom. The meta is only getting bulkier and that just means something will be able to take a shot and hammer it back, if not just phase it out or even just haze on its boost. Add that to the level of support it really needs and it makes for a struggling mon rn. B- is perfect for it.
 
Durant and Slurpuff really aren't in the positions to rise right now. You're talking about a lot of sets these two could possibly run, but aren't elaborating on how well these sets do in the current meta or if anything has changed to make these mons better. Durant had a lot of untapped potential that helped it get to B-, but it's not nearly bulky enough to set up hone claws reliably and can't take even resisted special hits to save its life. Scarf takes away from its power a significant, which really reduces it to LO and band, which still leave it with an accuracy problem. Durant's very good under the right circumstances, but isn't on par with any offensive mon that's in B rn. Slurpuff is also fine in B, since it only has one viable set (calm mind severely lacks power) that's really predictable and easy to take care of. Steels like Forry, Escav and Doublade are everywhere nowadays, and among other mons those 3 counter tf out of poor Puff. Overall, the prevalence of pokemon that wall puff and the 50% in hp belly drum requires are enough to keep it out of B+.

As for other noms, I completely agree with Manipulative's and Hilomilo's noms regarding rises to A5. Florges, Whimsicott, Escavalier, Heliolisk and Mega Abomasnow are all fantastic pokemon in the current meta that all should rise given the new difference in expectations for A mons. Florges is a great calm mind sweeper on balance builds and has better special bulk than sylveon (very important vs stuff like mega blastoise and heliolisk), and Whimsicott is an amazing team supporter that's only been hurt on the offensive side by Sylveon and still is amazing at role compression (water resist/dragon switch in/halts set up sweepers/krook check/pivot all in one set). Escavalier and Mega Aboma have gotten an overwhelming amount of support, and are quite honestly the two best anti-meta pokemon in the tier right now. Mega Aboma may not be hard to pressure offensively, but offensively checks every bulky water in the tier thanks to its grass typing and can plow through balance once fighting and fire types are removed. Escav can switch into just about half of the tier if it's running HP investment, and is a blanket check to a huge amount of mons and an amazing partner for things like Haxorus, Sylveon, Celebi and more. Heliolisk is a harder one to justify, but its specs set has been absolutely amazing lately and its the single best switch in to scald (AKA the one attack you'll find on every team) that the meta has to offer.

Aside from these rises, I think that both Machamp and Tyrantrum could rise to B-, as Tyrantrum's raw power behind Head Smash and its offensive capabilities should at least justify placement in B- (Machamp was covered quite well by Hilomilo so no need to elaborate there), and that Arcanine and Chandelure could both rise up to B+. These two are way more consistent than things in B atm like Sableye and Mega Absol and are way more on par now with what's in B+ thanks to half the rank rising to A5. Chandy's specs set is amazing against bulkier builds while scarf can plow through offense, and Arcanine (one I've supported awhile) is just such a great answer to the most common core in the metagame right now (Celebi/Krook/Sylveon). Thanks for reading guys, and please consider these changes in the next update! :)
 
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Sup buddies, time for another nomination:


Tentacruel rise from A3 to A2:


Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Haze
- Scald


The Tentacruel set above lets this Pokemon beat every spinblocker in the tier thanks to toxic. This particular set is really effective at the moment against Klefki hazard stacking builds (Klefki+Jellicent from what I've seen mainly) in that it can beat Jellicent 1v1 thanks to toxic, and can easily wear down Klefki with Scald. Toxic is also really nice to force Pokemon such as Suicune, that would otherwise beat it easily, into resting earlier (as you don't need to rely on a scald burn to wear it down), and likewise helps against Sableye by whittling it faster.

The reason why I propose a rise for Tentacruel is due to the metagame trends presented. It is, without a doubt, the best hazard remover in the tier, especially when using the set above, in that it can easily beat all spin blockers 1v1 as mentioned, and has enough of an offensive presence thanks to Scald that most rockers bar Celebi can't really switch in on it easily. The unban of Klefki and subsequently the rise of hazard stacking teams means that demand for hazard removal is at an all-time high, meaning that Tentacruel is more viable than ever in the current metagame due to its ability to take on these builds effectively.

This Pokemon provides far more use outside of rapid spin -- toxic spikes, setup prevention (acid spray and haze), scald, useful abilities (liquid ooze to snipe Mega Sceptile, Celebi, Roserade, etc, on their giga drain; clear body to help spin against sticky web teams). Furthermore, its amazing defensive typing means that it does not create many significant synergy issues when adding it to a team, meaning that it fits on teams easily. Finally, it can fit on more offensive builds with an effective offensive lure set, which helps to 'lure' in Pokemon like Krookodile (lure=entice to stay in) and OHKO with Hydro Pump, meaning that it isn't one-dimensional unlike Pokemon like Forretress (you can even run a fast set with Toxic to cripple sub-DD Gyarados before it sets up a sub). This is well known, but I mentioned it to showcase the versatility that this Pokemon provides, which in addition to recent metagame trends, means that this Pokemon is really out of place in A3 and deserves to rise.
 
Ok so I've had a problem with tentacruel for a long time, and maybe I'm a little biased but i think Tenta is just fine Staying in A3.
tenta.png


Tenta is a sort of mixed bag in a way and while it offers a lot of role compression and both offensive or defensive pressure as Panther aptly discussed, my real problem is that it just doesnt quite fit into any of its roles.

What I mean by it not fitting is that its stats betray it in certain ways, as a defensive mon its not incredibly bulky and its base 65 defense really hurts it, as it's forced to fully invest in defense and doesnt really check things on the defensive or specially defensive side, forcing you to run another water type or fire resist lest you lose to Entei, and another fighting check so that you dont lose to conkeldurr or any other really hard hitting fighting type, and another fairy resist so that specs Sylveon doesnt blow you away and etc. Its typing is another mixed bag, while offering some nice resistances it also gives a crippling weakness to ground, one of the most common coverage options in the tier.

On the offensive side, again it's a mixed bag with a base 80 spA that leaves a lot to be desired. This spA stat forces it to run Hydro pump which is a risky move and it unfortunately misses out on alot of crucial KO's even with max spA investment and hydro pump. In addition it faces a pretty big case 4 moveslot syndrome, forcing you to choose between ice beam toxic spikes haze and sludge wave.

While these points are all well and good I do still believe tentacruel is a very good mon in the tier, but looking at the mons in A3,
swamp.png
Swampert which is one of the best physical walls in the tier for balance and offers stealth rocks and roar with a strong offensive presence,
crobat.png
Crobat which is one of the best fighting checks in the tier with defog, taunt, u-turn, one of the best speed stats in the tier, and coveted flying stab, reun.png reuniclus one of the most reliable defensive set up sweepers in tier,
ape.png
Infernape which destroys standard balance cores and constantly keeps the opponent guessing for its set,
queen.png
nidoqueen which hits incredibly hard, offers nice utility with rocks and T-spikes, and is fat as hell, and
mamo.png
Mamoswine AKA Mr. No Switch-Ins, Tenta fits pretty comfortably here.

Looking at the tier above it and one of its biggest competitors (and imo the actual best hazard removal in the tier)
empo.png
Empoleon is, in this meta at least, far and away more reliable than Tentacruel. Its defensive set, though sharing a ground weakness and gaining an ugly fighting weakness, has an actual defense stat allowing it to fully invest in Sp. Def making it a premier Sp. Def wall and providing crucial resistances to Rock Dragon and Flying (one of like 2 flying resists in the tier) and nice utility in stealth rocks and Roar. Its offensive set also sports an amazing 111 spA stat which helps it so much as it gains a whole lot more offensive presence, and its defense stat allows it to run Shuca which nabs all sorts of surprise KO's on mons like Swampert and Krookodile. Finally Defog in general is much better in Klefki meta seeing how it can't just be blocked. Even Tornadus which punishes Defog has its stab resisted by Empo, so you can play around it seeing as its forced to Superpower/Focus Blast.

In sum while Tentacruel is a fantastic mon in the tier I just don't think its quite up to snuff with the rest of A2 and fits perfectly well where it is, thanks to its unreliability, poor stat distribution, 4 moveslot syndrome, and inferiority to Empoleon. Feel free to disagree I just wanted to voice concern on my behalf, and thank you for reading n_n.
 

Pearl

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As you're likely aware of by now, Klefki has been officially released from BL's shackles! Discuss this Pokemon's viability and where it should be placed in the rankings. Me and the rest of the team will sort this thread out after the Gen 7 hype has died down a little in what is likely to be the last update to the ORAS UU viability ranking thread (unless the UU council ends up making some big change to the metagame in a similar fashion to how Hail and Chandelure were banned from BW2 UU, which is looking unlikely). Please keep in mind that this thread's purpose is to help people who want to give this metagame a shot, and while we're trying to make sure things are as objective as possible, it's a guarantee that not everyone will end up agreeing with every Pokemon's final placement, so try to be as polite as possible if any of your nominations ends up getting "ignored" (this doesn't actually happen, but people have accused me of doing it in the past, so I'm leaving this here anyway)

With that said, a big change that has been suggested by the team is to move Mega Aerodactyl back to S. While we still agree that this Pokemon is nowhere near as good as Hydreigon, Celebi or even Suicune, the truth is that it might be closer to those Pokemon in viability than Entei, Krookodile, Sylveon and Conkeldurr. The latter has also been brought up to S rank, and while I can see why people would want that to happen, I personally believe that it's in a similar situation as Entei was before the rankings were changed: it's an insanely good Pokemon with massive utility and the ability to sweep any team without a Fairy-type Pokemon, but it doesn't feel as influential as the 3 Pokemon that are currently on top of the rankings.

And to close this post off, gimme a round of applause for managing to run this thread successfully from August 'till the end of Gen 6! I'd like to thank you guys for all of the feedback you've provided during my time as a VR host, even if sometimes the discussions weren't as smooth as one would like them to be. Keep them posts coming until we're done for real!
 
Cheers Pearl, we appreciate the effort you've made to keep the quality of this thread high. And by extension I appreciate the UU community for being the most welcoming, relaxed and fun group of people on both PS! and the forums.

Anyways regarding notewire's post, you've made some really nice points and broke things down well, but there are a few things that I want to question.

Defog in general is much better in Klefki meta seeing how it can't just be blocked
While it's of course true that Defog can't be blocked, I don't really see how it is better when we're looking at Tentacruel. This is because Tentacruel has all the tools in its disposal to dispose any Pokemon in the tier that can block rapid spin (Sableye, Jellicent, Doublade) bar the uncommon Hoopa (you can run Knock Off though). So yea, it can be blocked, but if you have all the tools you need to get past the things that block a spin, how is that a concern?

This spA stat forces it to run Hydro pump which is a risky move and it unfortunately misses out on alot of crucial KO's even with max spA investment
Do you have any specific examples of this? The whole point of running Hydro Pump on an offensive set is to ensure OHKOs on Pokemon that are usually faster and thus inclined to stay in: Nidoking, Krookodile and Mamoswine.

252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Nidoking: 368-434 (121.4 - 143.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 348-410 (105.1 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Tentacruel Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 392-464 (108.5 - 128.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


From the way I see it, the offensive set nets all the OHKOs that it needs to (as you only run it to 'lure' these threats). What OHKOs are missing here? If you could provide some examples I'd appreciate it.
 
this probably could be worded better but for mega aero to S lets look at what aero can do
-pursuit trap team support
-All out attacker that can sweep weakened teams
-hone claws + 3 that can sweep not as weakened teams
-some kinda taunt roost stall breaker that idk if its good or not
-offensively checks a lot of fast/frail mons (mega scept, bee, etc)
-forces teams to run scarfers/bulky/prio to keep in check
it doesn't require much support to do what it does

now lets look at the other S rank threats
hydreigon
-life orb wall breaker
-life orb taunt roost?? idk
-scarfer cleaner/u turn utility/momentum
-specs wall breaker (do people still use specs)
-entei (and other) check aka it can offensively check stuff too
doesn't require much support either to do what it does other than like a fairy resist and even then iron tail

suicune
-crocune wall/sweeper
-offensive cm
-sub cm
-a bunch of bulky sets revolving around some mixture of cm, rest, roar, sub
-scald
really good at what it does, doesn't require much support other than like electric/grass checks

celebi
-nastyplot sweeper
-sword dance sweeper
-scarf, specs, band idk
-rocks/support
-u turn
sweeper sets need support against faster checks, bulky sets provide a ton of support to teams

based on this very hastily made criteria list it seems to me that aero fits in pretty well with the other S threats in that it can provide a multitude of roles, is extremely good at what it does, and requires a little support to function at its best but thats like a given for any mon really.
amongst the other A1 threats i feel like they all are also really good at what they do obviously but require more support or are more one dimensional compared to aero
entei is like hard walled by bulky waters
krook is very one dimensional
specs sylveon has its weaknesses (slow, predictable), support sylveon is bulky but not the bulkiest
conk is perhaps the second best imo with a multitude of good sets and decent bulk and etc

idk to me mega aero is hella good obviously, and is definitely an omnipresent force in team builder whenever you're building any kind of offense and even some balance teams vs the hone claws set, so i guess I'm for aero going up to S!!
 
Are we done updating this thread come the next update then? I feel like ORAS UU will still be relevant up until SuMo gets its own UU meta. The Gen 7 OU hype is hurting the tier right now but we still have a lot of people playing right now. Nevertheless, HUGE shoutout to Pearl for doing an amazing job with this thread, 1-2 weeks between updates is gr8, and even though he asked for one ( ;) ) this dude deserves a big round of applause!:toast:
 

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