Phazing move discussion

To phaze - roughly speaking, to cancel your opponent's stat boosts.

The phazing moves:

Roar / Whirlwind
Probably the most common phazing move(s).

+ scouts your opponent's team
+ inflicts entry hazard damage
+ removes Substitute
+ may result in a good matchup for your Pokemon, giving you a free turn
- may also result in a bad matchup for your Pokemon, giving the other team a free turn
- negative priority means you usually take a hit while phazing
- doesn't work on some Pokemon (Soundproof, Suction Cups)
- doesn't work against the last Pokemon on your opponent's team

Haze
The move that gave "phazing" its name.

+ works on the last Pokemon of your opponent's team
+ can cancel your own stat drops (e.g. Psychic / Bug Buzz defense drops)
+ goes through Substitute
- doesn't do anything else
- not many Pokemon learn it

Perish Song
An uncommon move, but one that still phazes.

+ works on the last Pokemon of your opponent's team
+ may give your sweepers a free switch in (after two turns of Perish Song, if your opponent does not switch out, you either get a free switch in or a KO)
+ goes through Substitute
+ works even if opponent Baton Passes
- delayed effect (if a Pokemon has already set up, you really want to get it out NOW, not in 3 turns)
- doesn't work on some Pokemon (Soundproof)
- not many Pokemon learn it

Toxic
Strictly speaking it's a phazing move since it'll eventually force your opponent to switch or lose his Pokemon.

+ effect stays even after your opponent switches out
+ does damage
+ has other uses outside of phazing
- delayed effect (you generally want your opponent out NOW, not in 3-4 turns' time)
- offers status protection to the target (no Paralysis, no Burn, etc)
- ineffective on some Pokemon (poison types, steel types, Pokemon with Guts ...)
- can be removed by clerics (but you'll still have phazed successfully, unless the Pokemon you're trying to phaze is the cleric)
- imperfect accuracy
- blocked by Substitute
- does nothing to RestTalkers

Encore
This move can potentially phaze.

+ has lots of uses outside of phazing
+ if it works, you have a free turn (or if your opponent is stubborn, you have 4-8 free turns)
+ is especially effective against Cursers, if you manage to switch in safely
- you generally need to be faster than your opponent, meaning you can't phaze Dragon Dancers or Agility sweepers well
- if you predict wrong, you can get in trouble (although at least you've locked your opponent's move temporarily)
- if your opponent sees it coming and switches, you may waste your turn (although you'll still have phazed)
- not many Pokemon learn it

Trick
Another move that can potentially phaze.

+ has lots of uses outside of phazing
+ if you choice-lock the last Pokemon on a non-damaging move you've won the game
+ is especially effective against Cursers, if you manage to switch in safely
+ Choice Scarf makes you fast, possibly fast enough to Trick slow Pokemon using Agility / moderately fast Pokemon using Dragon Dance
+ may rid your opponent of useful items
+ even if you predict wrong you'll have permanently choice-locked a Pokemon, unlike Encore
- ... but you may lose your Pokemon for it, the choice-locked Pokemon need not become ineffective AND it retains all the boosts it already accumulated (see the BotW reachzero vs. Philip7086)
- blocked by Substitute
- may backfire (e.g. your opponent predicts your Trick and switches to his own choiced Pokemon)

Explosion
Not strictly a phazing move, but if it kills the other Pokemon it also removes the boosts.

+ has other uses aside from phazing
+ gets you a free switch in
+ gets you a KO
- loses you a Pokemon as well
- "if it kills the other Pokemon". It might not (high Def, resistance to Normal, Ghost-type, etc).
- blocked by Substitute
This isn't an exhaustive list; I may have missed some +'s and -'s or even some moves entirely.

Anyway ...

Do you phaze? If yes, which moves do you use? Which Pokemon? If no, why not? Personally I always try to have Roar / Whirlwind on my teams so I can get rid of Substitute without risking the hit, but some people just don't seem to need it.
 
On stall teams, phazers are a must, since you cant do much else to an opponent when they set up. However, on offensive teams, you dont need phazers as much, or at least not in the standard sence. Alot of Heavy offense team have no space for skarm or swampert, and don't put a phazer. However, most carry a tricker, so they can phaze in a sense. I dont get ehy fast hazers aren't used, like crobat or d-nite, which pretty much assures you the pokemon wont set up.

edit: wait a minute this is uu. Ok forget about D-nite, go offensive milotic and altaria instead.
 

FlareBlitz

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You've forgotten Yawn, which is a really really annoying phazing move. Think of it like a Spore that you can choose which Pokemon on your team takes. Uxie's Yawn + U-Turn combo is particularly annoying. Memento can qualify as well.
 
Yes, yawn is annoying. I only phaze on my more defensive teams. I don't find it to be a necessity on any team really, but it does make stall's job much easier. I'm running a roaring Blastoise on an offensive team this period. It's funny; when I first started using it, he swept more than my designated sweepers lololololol. I'm really bored, so I've been posting a lot...sue me. ~.~ Fucking viruses! Still trying to get this bitch resolved...
 
Taunt is an also amazing move for causing switches too.

Also i use Roar/WW for main PHazing and then either Haze/Encore/Perish Song or Trick for 'win conditions' on stall and not outright Phazing really unless its Cradily. ._. lol Either way they are prolly most effective on stall/defensive teams since with more offensive teams you can cause switches by being threatening and power alone, stall/defensive teams dont really do that tbh.
 
On stall teams, phazers are a must, since you cant do much else to an opponent when they set up. However, on offensive teams, you dont need phazers as much, or at least not in the standard sence. Alot of Heavy offense team have no space for skarm or swampert, and don't put a phazer. However, most carry a tricker, so they can phaze in a sense. I dont get ehy fast hazers aren't used, like crobat or d-nite, which pretty much assures you the pokemon wont set up.

edit: wait a minute this is uu. Ok forget about D-nite, go offensive milotic and altaria instead.
This is completely untrue. A good stall team should be able to come in and force out the opponent. Even against set up sweepers this is true. All UU set up sweepers can be taken out with the right pokemon and is the reason why any good stall player will have run so many calcs before playing. Seeing as most set up sweepers in UU use a Life Orb or leftovers means that there is an answer. Life Orb will take a punding from LO recoil plus entry hazards plus status plus confusion dependant on what type of stall you are running. Lefties is dealt with thanks to the high defence of the stallers and the fact that without LO the set up sweepers probably won't be strong enough to plow through.

I'm not gpoing to say that stall shouldn't have a phazer, just that it isn't actually a requirement.
 
Ok while I guess this doesn't really matter (this has been bugging me...) you should know the exact definition of terms before you make a thread based on them. Phazing, or Psuedo-Hazing is given that name because it does not cancel stat boosts but it forces a Pokemon to lose their boosts, generally via forcing (not threatening, forcing) them to switch. So clearly Haze cannot be considered a psuedo-haze because, well, it doesn't psuedo-haze, it hazes.

This also means that Trick, Encore, Explosion, Destiny Bond (surprised you didn't include this) and Taunt (which I'm surprised you left off the list as well) are not phazing moves. They don't force the opponent to "remove" stat ups like Haze or Roar. Perish Song is generally accepted as a phazing move because the opponent will automatically, regardless of the Pokemon or situation, lose their boosts after 3 turns.

Toxic is...well at least it's more accurate than the other options listed. It generally forces the opponent to switch or die (al a Perish Song).
 
I try and have at least one phazer or Encore user on my team. Encoring something like Curse Miltank or Registeel when you have nothing else to handle it is really handy, and let's you set up yourself to take it out or stall it out.
 
The only Phazer I have ever used was a typical Clefable Encore set. It usually forced a switch, and it allowed me to T. Wave something. But, in my new team, I really don't see the point of phazing, considering how often pokemon switch out anyway.
 

Bluewind

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This is completely untrue. A good stall team should be able to come in and force out the opponent. Even against set up sweepers this is true. All UU set up sweepers can be taken out with the right pokemon and is the reason why any good stall player will have run so many calcs before playing. Seeing as most set up sweepers in UU use a Life Orb or leftovers means that there is an answer. Life Orb will take a punding from LO recoil plus entry hazards plus status plus confusion dependant on what type of stall you are running. Lefties is dealt with thanks to the high defence of the stallers and the fact that without LO the set up sweepers probably won't be strong enough to plow through.

I'm not gpoing to say that stall shouldn't have a phazer, just that it isn't actually a requirement.
Hi random RestTalk boosting pokémon. GG. Yeah, stall needs some sort of phazer and I'd go as far as saying a hazer as well, because last poké situations are still gonna take their toll on these kinds of teams (unless you have Perish Song, of course).

On the talk not related to stall, it's clearly not a must, but a good asset; just like having an Encore or Trick user, as they can shut down something that if allowed to setup would steamroll your team once your main counter is gone. When I was testing teams I also ended up finding that the more defensive approach you take, the more they are necessary (which should be a bit obvious as defensive teams give your opponent more opportunities to setup).
 
Shouldn't Leech Seed be listed? and will-o-wisp as well? Leech Seed can force out big walls like Chansey/Registeel and other mons with big HP stats. As it really makes them null.

Will-O-Wisp can -possibly- force physical sweepers out, but they could just use SD/DD/Bulk Up and try to boost it back up at the cost of losing HP.

Also, Curse should be mentioned. Generally a last pokemon killer move, but if you need to have something forced out so you can set up, you can sac a curser to let it set up. Niche use of PHazing if it can even be considered PHazing, but I think it deserves mention.
 
Ok while I guess this doesn't really matter (this has been bugging me...) you should know the exact definition of terms before you make a thread based on them. Phazing, or Psuedo-Hazing is given that name because it does not cancel stat boosts but it forces a Pokemon to lose their boosts, generally via forcing (not threatening, forcing) them to switch. So clearly Haze cannot be considered a psuedo-haze because, well, it doesn't psuedo-haze, it hazes.

This also means that Trick, Encore, Explosion, Destiny Bond (surprised you didn't include this) and Taunt (which I'm surprised you left off the list as well) are not phazing moves. They don't force the opponent to "remove" stat ups like Haze or Roar. Perish Song is generally accepted as a phazing move because the opponent will automatically, regardless of the Pokemon or situation, lose their boosts after 3 turns.

Toxic is...well at least it's more accurate than the other options listed. It generally forces the opponent to switch or die (al a Perish Song).
Then what category do those other moves fall under? They don't cause your opponent to always switch, they cause your opponent to have the choice of either switching or facing the consequences of that move (e.g. Encore's locking into a move, Taunt's not being able to use non-attacking moves, etc.). If fucking Toxic is a phazing move (which actually would be categorized closer to the other moves than to the "real" phazing moves), the other moves might as well be.
 
Then what category do those other moves fall under? They don't cause your opponent to always switch, they cause your opponent to have the choice of either switching or facing the consequences of that move (e.g. Encore's locking into a move, Taunt's not being able to use non-attacking moves, etc.). If fucking Toxic is a phazing move (which actually would be categorized closer to the other moves than to the "real" phazing moves), the other moves might as well be.
The difference between those moves and Toxic is that, while they either shut down some stat boosters or threaten to deal "a lot" of damage, they don't generally put your opponent in a "do or die" situation like Toxic. Toxic cannot be recovered from by anything besides a Rest user. Encore only stops Curse users cold, Taunt only stops stat uppers after 1-2 set up moves depending on their Speed and actually forces them to attempt a sweep immediately, etc.

That said, I still don't consider Toxic a phazing move - in fact I never said that it was. I merely stated that it was more accurately labeled as a phazing move than moves like Encore and Explosion.

A phazing move, if defined in its simplest form, would be limited to Whirlwind or Roar and maybe Perish Song. Otherwise it's just "threatening a Pokemon out", like Milotic does against Moltres, and I'm sure we can agree that Milotic isn't phazing Moltres by simply countering it / forcing it out.
 
Phazing and Hazing are useful in stalls and semi stalls to stop Pokemon from setting up and sweeping your team like Altaria and SD Blaziken you maybe thinking when reading this post DUH!! but what's the demographic people actually have phazers and Hazers in there team? from my Battles I assumed not a lot which can lead people to lose against a baton pass teams but that is probably some silly Deductive reasoning coming from a novice.
 
What about Leech Seed? Most of the time it gets annoying enough with the constant HP drain that people will switch out to get rid of it.
 
Then call it:
Hazing, Phazing and Pseudo-Phazing discussion.
P-Hazing is itself Pseudo-Hazing, so I don't think Pseudo-Pseudo-Hazing would be an apt term.

Leech Seed, and generally most status act as an alternative to forcing the stat increaser to switch out, though the main difference between these moves and Whirlwind / Roar / Haze is the fact these 3 moves remove stat boosts 100% of the time, while Leech Seed and Status leave the decision up to the person who is setting up.
 

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