Pre-release Gen 7 Monotype Competitive Discussion

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Acast

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For mega evolutions that don't share a type with the team I can believe that the opportunity cost plus the BST gain far outweighs the penalty of being locked into an item. Was any consideration given to the reverse approach i.e. you can bring a Pokémon as long as the mega stone evolves it into the correct type; you can decide not to mega evolve it but then you lose out on the BST gain and you've effectively wasted an item slot?
The change to our policy on mega evolutions honestly has nothing to do with viability or balancing the metagame. It was changed simply because it's not in the spirit of monotype to allow a Water/Dark type on a Flying team (or in the case of your suggestion, allowing a Water/Flying type on a Dark team). In addition, one of the goals we've set for ourselves is keeping the banlist relatively simple. I would argue that your suggestion makes tiering the metagame far more complex than it needs to be. You're probably right that regular Gyarados with a Gyaradosite would be balanced on Dark teams, but it throws a wrench in the entire concept of monotype and goes against the tiering philosophy that I believe has served us well so far.
 
Of the reveals today, one thing stood out to me as something that will be incredibly broken regardless of its stats: Tapu lele. On fairy or psychic, i feel its ability.would make the likes of hoopa u/mega medi/mega dian more powerful than they already are in the current meta. From the sumo website

'Tapu Lele’s Ability is Psychic Surge, an Ability that no Pokémon has previously had. With Psychic Surge, the field will be turned into Psychic Terrain when Tapu Lele appears in battle, boosting the power of any Psychic-type moves used by Pokémon on the ground and preventing them from being hit by priority moves
.'

I wanted to see what thoughts you guys had on it, because i honestly feel that it should be quickbanned, even if its stats turn out to be horrible. Not only does it make it harder to revenge kill threats on psychic, it makes it near impossible to wall them without a dark type on hand due to a more powerful psychic stab
 
Of the reveals today, one thing stood out to me as something that will be incredibly broken regardless of its stats: Tapu lele. On fairy or psychic, i feel its ability.would make the likes of hoopa u/mega medi/mega dian more powerful than they already are in the current meta. From the sumo website
'Tapu Lele’s Ability is Psychic Surge, an Ability that no Pokémon has previously had. With Psychic Surge, the field will be turned into Psychic Terrain when Tapu Lele appears in battle, boosting the power of any Psychic-type moves used by Pokémon on the ground and preventing them from being hit by priority moves.'

I wanted to see what thoughts you guys had on it, because i honestly feel that it should be quickbanned, even if its stats turn out to be horrible. Not only does it make it harder to revenge kill threats on psychic, it makes it near impossible to wall them without a dark type on hand due to a more powerful psychic stab
Originally, I was expecting Tapu Koko to be incredibly powerful because there was no way for other teams to remove Electric Terrain and Tapu Koko was likely going to be a good abuser of it. Now that the other Tapu will be able to set terrain, I'm expecting them all to be broken. Terrain is incredibly good if you can set it for free and instantly be able to abuse it. Think if Kingdra could set rain on switch-in AND have Swift Swim. Same with Excadrill. It'd be ridiculous.
 
Remember that this is mostly theorymonning until the time SUMO actually releases. It's an interesting concept to auto-set these terrains, and I think it could bring a new set of play to the table. That being said, I don't think we should quick ban them right away until we know certain (I'd rather not have another Mega Gallade hype, because we know how that turned out).

My concern primarily is the fact that with Psychic Terrain, priority moves will now be ineffective. This benefits both Psychic and Fairy quite a bit, especially in the fact that Sucker Punch and Bullet Punch will now be nullified while this is up. For Fairy primarily, this will be excellent considering they will now have a reliable means to stop Scizor! This is great to see, and now it really has the chance to be a top tier type with this new buff. In the case of Psychic, from a theory standpoint I think this could be extremely danergous. This has the potential to make Psychic the new Flying from the beginning of gen 6, now that it's main sweepers/wallbreakers, Victini, Mega Medicham, and Hoopa-Unbound can no longer be checked by priority. (excuse my bias here, but, Ground abuse anyone? :P)

Looking into the other Surge abilities, there's something interesting to note about Misty Surge. This prevents the succession of Status Conditions, which for Water and Fairy teams could also be dangerous. Thunder Wave, Wil-O-Wisp, Rest, ect, will no longer work under this. For SS teams especially, this is a huge buff, and that would be something to definitely abuse now that there's another part Fairy Type to check Dragons other than Azumarill. Fairy moves are also boosted under this. Grassy Terrain I don't see anything huge going on there, besides the fact that it heals 1/16th of HP for everyone on the field (which could be more or less good or bad). Lastly, for Electric Terrain, this is the one I'm personally hoping won't be broken, especially to abuse Alolan Raichu! While the side effects of it are not incredibly breathtaking, Surge Surfer I hope is gonna be pretty good! This combo of Tapu Koko and Alolan Raichu would seriously alleviate the team's matchups against Dragon and Mega Venusaur.

Tl;Dr While there's a possibility of Tapu Lele and Tapu Fini being broken in theory, we really don't know until we give them a whirl when SUMO comes around.

Small note: I will not post as much, given atm I am 8 posts away (from this one) until I reach 1k, which I'm trying to salvage as much as I can.
 
More of Misaka Mikoto's Thoughts


Interviewer: Excuse me Misaka, do you have a moment?

Misaka: Uhhh, yes I do. Is there anything you need assistance with?

Interviewer: Sorry for stopping you on your way to school but I have a question for you.

Misaka: It's no problem at all, what is it?

Interviewer: Well, more Pokemon were revealed yesterday and I'd like to know more of your thoughts on the new Pokemon and their possible impact on the metagame if I may ask?

Misaka: Of course! I'd love to!

Interviewer: Alright, let's get started!

First off, can you please tell us about the starter's final evolutions that were revealed?

I'd like to make a note here:

Yes these are real because of the Chinese Leaks. But please listen when I say this, the Chinese Leaks are 100% true for the starters not always true everything else because when you look at the discord leak headings, they're different for other "leaked" information.

Decidueye

Well, much of us were surprised about Decidueye in the end because its typing changed from Grass / Flying to Grass / Ghost. We all expected it to keep its secondary typing and I thought it'll just get hammered down by Ice Shards or whatever. I guess many wanted it to keep its Flying typing but I do think that Ghost benefits it more than some realizes. I also love its animation: Spirit Shackle and I understand that the arrow launches right onto the Pokemon's shadow to trap them. This Pokémon is able to move about while completely masking its presence from others. Once an opponent has lost sight of it, Decidueye seizes the chance to attack it unawares. In a tenth of a second, Decidueye plucks an arrow quill from within its wing and sends its hurtling toward its target. "Its speed is astonishing, but not more so than its precise aim, which enables the arrow quill to pierce a target through and through from half a mile or more away!" Let's take a look at its qualities firsthand:
  • With its Flying typing gone, Decidueye loses its Stealth Rock weakness.
  • It loses its 4x weakness to Ice-type attacks.
  • In exchange of having an immunity to Fighting- and Normal-type attacks now.
  • Now neutral to Poison and Rock-type moves.
  • There is most likely a chance it'll have access to recovery and of course, I'm thinking that it'll get Roost anyway.
  • It is likely that Decidueye will be a fast Pokemon based on its description on the Pokemon website. I'm assuming that by "astonishing," we're talking about around base 115 Speed stat if not, then around Gengar's Speed instead. But nonetheless, it's hinted this thing will be quick and we certainly don't have many fast Ghost-types other than Gengar and Rotom right now.
  • We all know that it gets a typing just like Gourigest and Trevenant, but I think this Pokemon "might" serve its purpose of being more useful against Ground, Water, and Rock matchups for Ghost.
  • It seems to be a physical attacker as we know so far. GameFreak did reveal Spirit Shackle to be a physical attack so I guess there's a big chance that'll be a physical Grass / Ghost Pokemon. I do hope it's mixed so you can utilize more than just a physical set so you don't have to be "completely" vulnerable to burns and Intimidate.
  • Such a nice design.
Interviewer: Are there any possible downsides you see with this Pokemon?

Misaka: There's a couple. If not, there's a few.
  • While Decidueye looks good on paper, Spirit Shackle isn't all that "great" because it's more like a dumb-down version of Shadow Tag. The opponent is still able to switch into a more threatening Pokemon that can counter Decidueye because switching has priority over the move. If it was more of Pursuit + Shadow Tag together, then that I can understand. Or even make it something to the fact that the move even prevents other Pokemon from Volt Switching or U-turning out as well. The move is just...like any other attack I suppose. You'll just end up luring in a Pokemon that'll enjoy getting trapped by the move (check / counter). All I'm going to say is, I hope it gets Perish Song or something because that would come in handy with Spirit Shackle and the opponent can't switch out the same turn as Decidueye can.
  • Um, I'd say that even though Grass / Ghost has "almost" perfect coverage. I said almost because it still gets heavily walled by the likes of Bisharp, which is no bueno.
  • Well...many Dark-types will crap on it anyway but let's see what happens when the metagame for Gen 7 comes out.
  • I hope it gets something such as Tinted Lens...or some other relevant ability like Super Luck or Sniper (two abilities that are actually fitting for a Pokemon that utilizes arrows).


Incineroar

Those of you who said it'll be Fire / Fighting or Fire / Ground (laughing), you're completely wrong of course. Like, can you not? I did know its typing was Fire / Dark because (I don't remember which site I found it on despite me listening to more credible sites such as Serebii and the Pokemon website) but they did say that "It likes to play dirty and use cheap tactics to defeat its opponents." Definitely sounds like a Dark typing to me. If that's not it, I have no idea what else it would be and I was entitled to this for a few months. I did wish for it to be Fire / Poison as well (even if we do have Salandit; we have Primarina and Tapu Fini with th same revealed Water / Fairy typing so I don't think it matters what other Pokemon have that typing already). My goodness Incineroar is so cute. It's like nurturing a a tiny pet cat into a big cat! I might name him Flame Kitty. Anyway, back on the real topic at hand:
  • Darkest Lariat mainly acts like a Sacred Sword / Chip Away attack.
  • Ugh, I can't wait to use this starter In-Game.
  • "If a crowd watching it battle is pumped up, Incineroar’s fighting spirit will burn brighter." Learning possible Fighting-type moves? If so, please give it Bulk Up + Drain Punch.
  • Of course Incineroar looks to also be more of a physical orientated Pokemon as well.
  • Could be used to also help Fire-types with a couple of their matchups? *Shrugs*
What are some issues I have with it?
  • I don't really think that Incineroar will be able to have its place on a team because Fire- and Dark-types have a lot of relevant Pokemon that are needed against some matchups.
  • I don't see it having any sort of impact on the metagame honestly.

Primarina

Even by looking at designs you can tell what kind of typing it'll have, as we know that Primarina was meant to get Water / Fairy typing. I would say that Primarina will be more of a defensive Pokemon. As you know, the majority of Fairy-types have a great Special Defense so I can expect that this siren will be able to tank some special attacks. I guess it's nice but then you're giving a Pokemon competition with others *cough* Azumarill but there isn't really much I can say about this thing here. I would say that its description could hint us to a couple of speculations on what we might have or get in the future. "Since Primarina controls its balloons using its voice, any injury to its throat can become a grave problem. Its greatest enemies are arid environments and the overuse of its voice during back-to-back battles." Hyper Voice + Pixilate anybody?
  • Sparkling Aria.....I literally have no idea what goes through your mind GameFreak. Nobody wants to heal their opponent's burn condition.
  • Its description on Serebii and the Pokemon website kind of hint us that its hidden ability may be Pixilate? I mean, it does tell us that Primarina about it singing and using its voice so I'm pretty positive that it'll get Hyper Voice.
  • Can possibly considered to be specially defensive and have a good HP stat.
  • Not sure but its offensive presence might be pretty decent.
Problems
  • Primarina looks to be pretty slow. I'm not expecting this siren to be fast.
  • Seriously going to be facing competition with Azumarill and Tapu Tini for a spot on a team and I can safely see it losing. I mean, I fear Huge Power + Choice Band Azumarill on Water and Belly Drum Azumarill on Fairy more than I do this so I can still kind of see Azumarill overtaking Primarina's role as a Water / Fairy.
  • If you're going to be specially defensive, then there's a chance that you're not going to be bulky physically. Then again, I'm subject to be wrong about it.
Just nothing much to really say about these other starters and their impact on the game.

Interviewer: Can you please tell us about your opinion on the Island Guardians?

Tapu Lele



Congratulations GameFreak! Good job making Psychic-types even more annoying and hateful to me. You don't surprise me with with this at all because they're a popular type with like 8 newly released Psychic-types this generation and my god you just broke the barrier when you released this thing. I do like the fact that terrains are being utilized more often but this is kind of ridiculous that Psychic-types are getting a lot of very good tools to make use of and certainly, I wasn't expecting this at all. " Tapu Lele scatters glowing scales that physically affect others—providing stimulation to their bodies and healing their illnesses or injuries." Sounds like it can be a potential cleric with Heal Bell, Healing Wish, etc. Judging from other descriptions that it has, this Pokemon will definitely be an annoyance on Psychic-type teams. I would assume it could possibly...replace Mew on and off and you'll see why below. It does have a cute design so I can't complain about that!
  • Tapu Lele's ability: Psychic Surge stops priority moves from happening. That means Bisharp's (along with others that tend to use Sucker Punch) is nullified and that really helps Psychic-types against Dark matchups. It'll have to rely on Knock Off now and because of that Bisharp can't check those that have Choice Scarf like Victini, Mega, Hoopa-U, and Medicham. It makes Bisharp easier to get around. Doublade can't use Shadow Sneak against them on Ghost or Steel. Mega Scizor is unable to use Bullet Punch to pick off any weakened foes either. This also applies to Fairy-types as well (in my opinion is kind of needed on that type to check Mega Scizor). Azumarill can't use Aqua Jet after setting up Belly Drum if it was a Psychic vs Fairy matchup. Mega Pinsir has to rely on Aerilate Frustration over Quick Attack against them. Mega Lopunny can't use Fake Out for chip damage. Diggersby also utilizes Quick Attack too (because I like Choice Band so much). Weavile and Mamoswine can't use Ice Shard either. I think that Psychic Surge only affects moves that have increased priority. It's certainly unknown if it affects Pokemon that have access to Prankster. But I think it's just priority attacks that deal damage in general and this could really turn over some Psychic matchups.
  • "With this in mind, it tends to prioritize not losing a battle over actually beating a foe, and it's skilled at strategies such as inflicting status conditions on opponents." Definitely makes me think that Tapu Lele will have Thunder Wave and Will-O-Wisp (of course it'll have Toxic as well). This is going to be very annoying to those that are physical attackers and faster Pokemon.
  • Psychic / Fairy typing does give it a neutrality against Dark and I can see it facing competiton from Gardevoir. But overall, I can see Tapu Lele replacing Gardevoir on Fairy-type teams. Even Psychic teams, now that Tapu Lele opens up a Mega Evolution spot for Mega Medicham.
  • Also softens the Fairy vs Steel matchup a bit but Steel still poses a huge threat to it.
  • Overall, Psychic gets strengthened with more support.
What problems do I see from this?
  • Psychic clearly becomes more of a threat and have less fear against other Pokemon that poses a threat to Psychic like Bisharp.
  • It makes some matchups a bit easier to get around.
  • Doesn't look like it'll have a great Speed stat.
  • I'm going to say once the metagame begins to set it, Tapu Lele will probably be suspected (and possibly banned) and I hope it does, it's ridiculous.



Tapu Fini

I was hoping for Tapu Fini to have a Ghost / Fairy typing. I wasn't able to see it in full view until the trailer was released. Would say it could have been more helpful on Ghost-types because of course, their matchup against Dark-, Dragon-, and Fighting-types will strengthen. Misty Terrain will definitely benefit Ghost-types because I assure you that (for some odd reason) Ghost is cursed or something because I get haxed a lot by status. x.x Its Fairy typing would have made it helpful I'm not sure how useful it'll be on Water-types but it can help with Swift Swim teams that don't enjoy status I guess? I can safely say that Kingdra wouldn't enjoy being paralyzed for example. Again, it'll pretty much face competition from Azumarill because (highly doubt) that many people would run two Water / Fairy Pokemon. I'm not sure how relevant its place will be but certainly we'll find out soon next month. Nothing in the descriptions that'll give us some hints on what it can possibly get.
  • Misty Surge can definitely help Water- and Fairy-type teams avoid status moves. Can possibly be very helpful.
  • Makes me think of a clam + sword fish mixed together.
  • Another Pokemon that has a neutrality against Steel-types now.
What problems do I see?
  • Its relevancy on the teams with Azumarill in its way. There's also Primarina as well.
  • I don't see it'll be that fast either.
  • Not Ghost / Fairy, I cry.
  • Not sure whether the use of Dragon-type attacks on Water will really benefit anything (because Dragon attacks are cut in half). Not sure if Kingdra would like that anyway because it gets affected too when the user of Misty Surge uses a Dragon attack anyway.
  • Nothing to really discuss about with this Pokemon.

Tapu Bulu

Figured this might have been Fire / Fairy but oh well, it's Grass / Fairy. Guess that's not a shocker. I think it's probably the worst the Tapu out of the others at first glance. Maybe juleocesar can find some sort of use for it on Grass-type teams. Grassy Surge...I have a problem with that. I utilized Grassy Terrain on Monotype Grass (and Poison a little) during the X / Y era and it was okay. I find it annoying how Grassy Terrain's ability recovers both you and your opponent's health 1/16 every turn. "It can use this power on its own horns—which are made of wood—changing their shape or making them larger." Sounds like it can get Horn Leech. I think I saw that in the trailer anyway. Because of this, it makes a loud ringing noise with its tail to alert those nearby of its presence. Sounds like it can possibly get some sort of sound move? Anyway, Whimsicott will still probably hold more use over Tapu Bulu because of Prankster and I would prefer it over this in my opinion.
  • Grassy Surge increasing Grass-type attacks, giving them a bit of support at the cost of increasing health for both sides each turn.
  • It looks like it has a sombrero over its head and its design reminds me of Mexico, which is neat.
Problems I see here.
  • Whimsicott will most likely be used more over this.
  • The problem here is that with Grass / Fairy, Tapu Bulu is more vulnerable to weaknesses compared to Whimsicott.

Interviewer: What about your opinion on the Cosmo Pokemon?


Cosmog

Good grief this thing is cute. I'm not totally sure what to think about this Pokemon but it's "rare" in the Alola Region so they say. "At one time, it was known only by the kings of Alola and their heirs, and it was called “the child of the stars.” "The Aether Foundation is researching this unusual Pokémon." This make me believe that it'll have an important part to the Gen 7 Storyline (I know, it's not really relevant to the metagame but I can't necessarily think of anything until we get more information later on). But I do have this weird feeling it deals with Lunala and Solgaleo. Bur we'll have to wait and find out more about this Cosmog.

Right now no opinion on its impact to the metagame.


Interviewer: Those are some nice assumptions you made there Misaka.

Misaka: Thank you. I know I didn't get the chance to really dig deep into this stuff right now but this is all that immediately came to me.

Interviewer: Thank you for your time.

Misaka: You're very welcome. Adios!

This concludes more of Misaka Mikoto's thoughts.
Join us next time!
 
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Judging from what I'd seen of Cosmog, I can almost guarantee it looks like a pre-evolution for Lunaala. I'm not sure if it will evolve or not, but seeing as that would allow for breeding of perfect legendaries, I'd say it would probably be in a similar situation to how Phione is to Manaphy.

Also our of the starter evolutions, I reckon that I'll definitely be going for either Incineroar or Decidueye. Not a fan of Primarina's design, although they did salvage a bit from what Popplio started out as.

Continuing on the topic of starters, there's been talk of Ghost now becoming Super Effective against Fairy to complete the 'Perfect Starter Triangle', which I believe would be a good thing for Ghost. Ghost in itself is a strong type, but bad Pokemon and a weakness to common moves in the Metagame reducing its effectivity. However, if it does get granted a new strength in being able to hit Fairies SE, along with hopefully some better Pokemon this Gen, Ghost may become a better type over the near future and increase in usage.
 
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Ghost might not become a best type even with being super effective to Fairy, but getting better new Pokemons, unbanning M-Sab and Aegis, and (I hope) getting a buff in stats/movepools of some Pokemons will probably increase it's viability. Ghost being super effective to Fairy will kinda balance the type and make it less good, in fact Fairy has no resistance to Ghost, I think it's a fair nerf for Fairy.
 
Continuing on the topic of starters, there's been talk of Ghost now becoming Super Effective against Fairy to complete the 'Perfect Starter Triangle', which I believe would be a good thing for Ghost. Ghost in itself is a strong type, but bad Pokemon and a weakness to common moves in the Metagame reducing its effectivity. However, if it does get granted a new strength in being able to hit Fairies SE, along with hopefully some better Pokemon this Gen, Ghost may become a better type over the near future and increase in usage.

"Bad pokemon"... also, the perfect starter triangle is mucked up with Primarina's fairy attacks only hitting Incineroar for neutral (fire typing resists fairy).

That said, I would like to see Ghost hit Fairy SE for balance reasons (as right now, STAB ghost is significantly rarer than STAB dark, and the best ghosts allowed in OU (above) hit Fairy SE anyway with their secondary STABs). Decidueye is already shaping up to be the best starter on paper, as it looks speedy, its signature move traps pokemon while doing damage, and the only ones it can't trap (ghosts) are hit SE by it.
 

"Bad pokemon"... also, the perfect starter triangle is mucked up with Primarina's fairy attacks only hitting Incineroar for neutral (fire typing resists fairy).

That said, I would like to see Ghost hit Fairy SE for balance reasons (as right now, STAB ghost is significantly rarer than STAB dark, and the best ghosts allowed in OU (above) hit Fairy SE anyway with their secondary STABs). Decidueye is already shaping up to be the best starter on paper, as it looks speedy, its signature move traps pokemon while doing damage, and the only ones it can't trap (ghosts) are hit SE by it.
Saying that Ghost has 'bad pokemon' was more of a generalisation. It may shock you to hear this but I am aware they also have some 'good pokemon'. But compared to types like Water and Psychic they don't even have a quarter of the depth of those types, and by posting only Gengar and Aegislash as the 'good pokemon' on ghost kind of proves my point.
 
Ghost doesn't need a type-chart buff, it just needs better moves on the physical side. It is on paper better than Dark, but Dark has Knock Off, Pursuit, Crunch, and Sucker Punch. Ghost has... Shadow Sneak and everything else is garbage.

On that front, Decidueye looks to be a physical attacker as Spirit Shackle is confirmed to be physical, and Spirit Shackle just might be decently powered enough (prevailing theory is that its a Thousand Waves clone, putting it at 90BP) to finally have a ghost type with a strong physical Ghost STAB.
 
Do you guys think stall will become more viable this upcoming gen? Stall isn't used much but you ocassionlly see the water stall every now and then. The other stalls are rarely seen because there not as good but I personally think stall water won't be seen at all this gen but who knows. Haven't really stayed up to date with the new releases but with mega bro unbanned stall psy could actually become a thing.
 
Ever since its release in ORAS, Mega Slowbro's the one Pokemon that's earned my contempt the most. Having Regenerator before mega allowed it to serve as a nasty pivot before attempting a late-game sweep with its ABSURD base defense stat. Running Oblivious to prevent Taunt before mega is borderline obnoxious, but extremely effective with the right team. I'm so glad the decision to ban it without a suspect was made back then, and I am hoping it receives the same treatment asap since it is only usable on two already top-tier types.

With the advent of Z-moves and abilities (and a move) that can trigger Psychic Terrain, which envelops the field with an effect that prevents priority moves, I actually see the metagame leaning more towards offense. Powerful one-turn attacks and a way to prevent revenge killing makes me naturally think it's going down that path. I took a fancy to Monotype in the first place because of its natural aversion from stall, so right now, it looks like it's going to be a welcome change.

EDIT: Didn't want to double post, but with the recent news.. Can we expect Talonflame to be unbanned?
 
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Acast

Ghost of a Forum Mod & PS Room Owner
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A couple announcements:

In Gen 7, Gale Wings has been confirmed to only give priority if the user is at 100% HP. Dark Void's accuracy has also been decreased to 50%. For these reasons, Talonflame and Darkrai will be unbanned at the start of Gen 7.

In addition, Silvally's ability "RKS System" seems to function exactly like Arceus's Multitype except with different items known as "memory discs". The council has discussed it and we agree that if RKS System is functionally identical to Multitype, Silvally will be allowed on all Monotype teams as long as it holds the "memory disc" of the appropriate type.
 
Dark voids accuracy dropping does cripple Darkrai a bit but it's amazing speed + nasty plot makes it still stupid pokemon to have to deal with. my prediction it'll be banned ASAP
 
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Vid

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Recently a list was "leaked" about old Pokemon being buffed and nerfed
Only a few of these stand out as relatively interesting for the Monotype metagame

Pelipper gets Drizzle instead of Keen Eye and also received a slight buff to its special attack. This is very important because Pelipper is the only weather setter to have reliable recovery in Roost. Pelipper is also the first weather summoner to have access to a pivoting move in U-turn. This on paper seems very nice and possibly a surge of popularity for Swift Swim Water. Pelipper also adds a Mega Venusaur check to Swift Swim Water. A couple flaws I see is the Stealth Rock weakness could be problematic, but is seems manageable because of how many hazard removers Water has access to.

Torkoal gets the Drought ability, which is a very big change. Torkoal on Fire is often considered dead weight outside of removing hazards, but with Drought Torkoal can tank water-type attacks and set up Sun. I do not think the introduction of Drought Torkoal with decrease Charizard-Y's viability, but it seems like Ninetales will take a major hit. This change in theory should increase fire's viability.

Gengar has received a major nerf losing Levitate for Cursed Body. This change seems to hurt both Ghost and Poison teams because both types lack Ground resits(Poison has Crobat and Golbat which should see more usage). This change leaves Ghost very weak to Ground.

Dugtrio receives 20 more base Attack (100 Attack) which helps it be a better trapper in general. Personally this buff doesn't seem like it'll will affect Monotype because of how hard Dugtrio is hard to fit on Ground teams.

Cryogonal gets a slight buff to it's HP and Defense which should make it easier to use. Cryogonal should interesting, but it is unlikely. This seems very minor change that will not impact the metagame.
I'm very excited for Gen 7 and the new changes it has to offer.
 
Chiming in about Dugtrio. I've built a successful Dugtrio stall Ground team and good lord this +20 Attack boost is mindblowing right now. I was honestly even considering Adamant Dugtrio for the extra damage, but now I can run Jolly and have even more power than Adamant would have supplied me (I'm not insane, I have a Keldeo counter, so not outspeeding that isn't a death sentence). Consider these calcs:

252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Medicham: 232-274 (88.8 - 104.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
That's a guaranteed OHKO after any 2 ticks of sand or Stealth Rock.

252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Hoopa Unbound: 309-364 (102.3 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Arena Trap is a ridiculously good ability and I'm actually seeing Dugtrio having more presence with this buff. My team will no doubt need huge changes as SuMo rolls out and new threats appear, but I'm very excited to see what splashes Dugtrio will be making soon.
 

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Marshadow looks absolutely awesome and while I doubt Ghost will suddenly become top tier, I feel it's going to be a huge boon to the types it finds its way onto.

Marshadow @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Ice Punch
- Shadow Sneak

I expect this will be a fairly typical set that it uses to abuse it's great STABs, coverage and priority although it does get Thunder Punch so if Flying is particularly prevalent again next gen it could use a BoltBeam set to be more effective in that matchup. It's Shadow Sneak hits harder than Adamant max Attack Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch so it's plenty strong enough to warrant including on a set. With base 125 Attack and Speed and better than average bulk for an offensive mon it certainly has the tools to make use of it's moveset and ability, so I'm really looking forward to the release of this mon.
 

Acast

Ghost of a Forum Mod & PS Room Owner
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Marshadow looks absolutely awesome and while I doubt Ghost will suddenly become top tier, I feel it's going to be a huge boon to the types it finds its way onto.

Marshadow @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Ice Punch
- Shadow Sneak

I expect this will be a fairly typical set that it uses to abuse it's great STABs, coverage and priority although it does get Thunder Punch so if Flying is particularly prevalent again next gen it could use a BoltBeam set to be more effective in that matchup. It's Shadow Sneak hits harder than Adamant max Attack Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch so it's plenty strong enough to warrant including on a set. With base 125 Attack and Speed and better than average bulk for an offensive mon it certainly has the tools to make use of it's moveset and ability, so I'm really looking forward to the release of this mon.
Seconding this. Ghost is primed to see a rise in viability this generation, especially with Marshadow. But on top of that they're also getting Mimikyu which is surprisingly bulky and the yet-to-be-officially-revealed Dhelmise (the anchor pokemon).





I don't know if these are enough to bring the type back up to mid-tier, but I definitely think it won't be the worst type anymore.
 
Wait Fighting/Ghost happened??? When?? And why wasn't I notified of this??

But after looking at both of those mons, Marshadow will really give ghost a nice physically orientated boost with coverage to spare. Now they can fight back against Dark and it won't be a complete romp. By the way those stats are literally all I could've hoped for for a mon of this calibre. But now with the advent of this mon, I could possibly see Chandelure possibly making its way back onto Ghost more often due to the fact that not much on Ghost can help with Burns.
Dhelmise is also pretty cool but at the end of the day I see it as pretty much just a buffed Trevenant/Gourgeist stats wise, but the added attack could see it find its way into regular team selection.

Also a few shocks I've found (Be warned, they may will contain spoilers):
Decidueye's and Vikavolt's speed stats, Crabrawler's evolutionary typing, Wishiwashi School Forme's stats (My God...), Toxapex in general for Water and Poison and Belly Drum+Autotomize Kommo-o :p
This could be an interesting Gen
PS: The Ultra Beasts are pretty broken...
 
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Yeah yesterday pretty much the entire game got leaked, my thoughts on all the types at this point:

- Bug:
Leech Life got buffed to 80 bp, but not many viable bugs get it tho, fell stinger got buffed too (50 bp and raises +3 attack if succesful), nice gimmick on there.
About new mons:
  • Two new water/bug mons introduced: Golisopod seems could be a good assault vest abuser again fire spam, it have high attack and very high defense too, legit mon; Araquarid instead have only high special defense and a fire resist ability but nothing more, it have sticky webs i guess.
  • Buzzwole (bug/fight ultra beast) seems can remain unbanned, a bulky attacker alla m-swampert/m-heracross. Pheromosa instead (bug/fighting too) will probably be banned.
  • Vikavolt (bug electric levitator) is disappointing.

- Dark:
Sucker Punch got nerfed to 70 bp, not that much of a change.
About mons:
  • Guzzlord (dark/dragon ultra beast) seems snorlax 2.0: high HP and reliable attack and so so defenses, it dont have recovery other than Rest tough.
  • Incineroar (fire/dark) is a bit disappointing, new fairy resist but thats it.
  • Alolan muk (poison/dark) seem gimmick with its ability Power of Alchemy (copy an ability of a defeated ally), no clue how it will work specially having still competition of drapion/skuntank.
  • Krookodile gets Power Trip, a dark physical version of Stored Power, so nice for gimmicks.
  • (Mega)Sharpedo gets Psychic Fangs, so an improved Zen Heatbutt if you wanted a check to fightings/megasaur.

- Dragon:
  • Kommo-o (fighting/dragon) seems legit, a nice choice again mononormal (a pain for dragons) even if it dont have nice fighting stabs (sky uppercut being the best option). Anyways it have nice bulk, poison jab for fairies, dragon dance and even belly drum for gimmicks.
  • Guzzlord is outclassed by hydreigon, becos the later have ways to deal with fairies.
  • Alolan Exeggutor (Grass/dragon) and Drampa (normal/dragon) are meh.
  • Complete form Zygarde is probably the biggest dissapointment of all the gen.
  • Flygon gets Dragon Dance

- Electric:
  • Tapu koko (fairy/electric) introduces Electric terrain everytime it enters so its nice (breloom cant spore anymore), still the higher fairy stab it learns is Dazzling gleam, so a bit underwhelming again dragons.
  • Alolan Raichu (psychic/electric) doubles speed on electric terrain, but its offenses are still lacking, maybe life orb versions can be somewhat viable.
  • Alolan Golem (Rock/electric) is BIG for electrics, finally a decent stealth rocker, and its ability galvanize convert all normal moves to electric, so it can go out with a big boom with Explosion.
  • The electric ultra beast will probably be banned.

- Fairy:
Gains all the terrains with the 4 Tapus:
  • Still Tapu lele (psychic/fairy) will probably be the mayor change with Psychic Terrain nullifying priority, so a decent check to bpunch scizor.
  • Magearna (fairy/steel) can be other check to steels too, it have very high defenses, special attack and low speed, also shift gear/calm mind, no clue how it will work.
  • With Shiinotic (grass/fairy) fairies gain a Spore user.
  • Finally Mimikyu (fairy/ghost) seems a gimmick choice for its ability, but not the best choice for synergy.
  • Primarina (water/fairy) is meh.

- Fighting:
  • Marshadow (fighting/ghost) is BIG for fightings, they gain a nice psychic check right there.
  • The other new fightings arent that good, bewear (normal/fighting) and Crabominable (ice/fighting) are outclassed, or add nothing to the type.
  • Not sure about Kommo-o performance.
  • Buzzwole or Pheromosa: read bug

- Fire:
  • The biggest change is Drought Torkoal, so torkoal finally deserve a spot on all fire teams, also it free space to use Char-x instead of Char-y, or maybe even double weather setters.
  • Alolan marowak and incineroar dont add much to the type.
  • Funnily enough Turtonator (fire/dragon) seems totally outclassed now by torkoal (slow, defensive mon), even if that dragon type helps a bit again water i guess.

- Flying:
  • Gale wings being nerfed, so Talonflame allowed again. Still no one gonna use it now lol.
  • Mantine gets Roost, so a new ice check there? that coupled with the mega gyarados ban could give more popularity to mantine on flying, who knows..

- Ghost:
Bruu, gamefreak did A LOT of changes to ghost, where to start: First sucker punch nerf helps ghosts in a pinch so yeah.. Destiny Bond was also nerfed (the chances of it working lower if used consecutively, sort like protect, endure, etc), so ghosts sort of lose that gimmick.
About the mons:
  • Marshadow gives ghost finally a legit dark answer, it have nice speed and attack to launch close combats back, Spectral Thief is a 90 bp physical ghost attack which steal opponent boosts and attack in the same turn, so yeah good mon overall.
  • Decidueye and Dhelmise are 2 new Grass/ghost mons, both with a form of hazard control (defog for the 1st, rapid spin for the 2nd) so choices...
  • Mimikyu is even another dark check, its ability, stats and Play Rough stab, make it legit. Ghost form Silvally will probably be Knock Off neutral so other dark check right there.
  • Undecided about Alolan marowak (fire/ghost), and Palosand (ground/ghost) is meh.
  • On the other hand Gengar loses Levitate for cursed body, so RIP gengar 2016.

More to come ...
 
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Since I only care about Poison teams, here is my take on the new poison mons and their impact on the type:

- Alolan Muk (poison/dark): 105/105/75/65/100/50
---- This will be the poison/dark of choice at least at first; it is bulky while also packing a good punch. Drapion/Skuntank are both faster than this thing and can boast some good things over it (both have access to Pursuit, with Skuntank having worse stats but a better movepool in Sucker Punch and Defog) but A-Muk's hidden ability Power of Alchemy allows it to copy the ability of a defeated foe which could lead to interesting situations. Too bad it doesn't get P̶u̶r̶s̶u̶i̶t̶/Sucker Punch... Definitely worth messing around with; its Curse set looks especially dangerous:

A-Muk @ Black Sludge
252 Atk/Def, 6 SpDf
Power of Alchemy

Curse
Knock Off/Payback
Poison Jab/Gunk Shot
Coverage of choice (Rock Slide, Brick Break, Explosion, etc.)

EDIT: Acast has shown me the light; this thing totally does get pursuit. This makes Power of Alchemy so much better, as you could come in on something with a good ability (Levitate?), pursuit-trap it and guarantee yourself the ability.

- Toxapex (poison/water): 50/63/152/53/142/35
---- This looks like a more wallish Tentacruel; its base stat spread is reminiscent of Ferrothorn, and its HA of Regenerator makes this a pain in the ass to kill. The set on my mind, however, will be:

Toxapex @ Black Sludge / Poison Barb (for damage boost)
252 HP/SpA
Ability: Merciless (if enemy is poisoned, all attacks will crit)

Baneful Bunker (works like Protect but will poison any enemy who attacks w/ a contact move)
Venoshock (for double damage + crit after poisoning)
Toxic Spikes
Recover

- Salazzle (poison/fire): 68/64/60/111/60/117
---- Faster but less powerful than Gengar on the special side. Fire-typing will help vs Scizor, but there's not much this thing can reliably switch in on. 4x weakness to ground also sucks, and its special coverage is limited to poison/fire/dragon moves with hidden power. I honestly wish this thing had a more defensive base stat spread so that we could abuse its ability Corrosion, which lets it poison steel/poison types....

- UB-01 AKA Nihilego (rock/poison): 109/53/47/127/131/103
---- Now this is a special attacker! Its ability Beast Boost will boost the stat that is the most proficient (not sure if this is off of base stats or actual stats, but if it is for actual, its speed can be tweaked to be a couple points above its special attack w/ nature and EVs so that it works like a "speed-Moxie")... terrifying, to say the least.
Also, look at this things's movepool: Power Gem (Yes!), Sludge Wave, Thunder(bolt), Charge Beam (for boosting), Dazzling Gleam, Psychic, Stealth Rock, T-Wave... yes, it is quad-weak to ground (and will get destroyed by Bullet Punch or Aqua Jet), but it's almost a moot point if it can nab a speed boost w/ its ability...

Other observations:

Gengar lost Levitate! Still useful, but definitely not S-rank worthy, especially in light of UB-01 (who can equip an Air Balloon which will help it stick around and activate Beast Boost)

Arbok, Ariados and Qwilfish all got a +10 BST boost (attack, special defense, and defense respectively); still mostly useless compared to their competition..

Weather wars are sorta back with Pelipper and especially Torkoal/Gigalith; all players should brace themselves for a rush of weather-abusing teams and poison is no exception.

Analysis: Poison is no longer restricted to running bulky-offense to succeed in the meta. It won't be a top tier type by any means, but there is now enough viable variety to try your hand at HO, toxic-stall, or a number of other team archetypes.
 
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Yeah, wow. Gen 7 is going to be quite the show. It hasn't even officially begun yet, but we've already seen major, but welcome shifts in tiering philosophy, something which was unthinkable before!

Funny how it worked out like that, but aside from that, the advent of some of these Pokemon seems like it's going to invert the match up for many types, or at the least, equalize it in some form.

On a different note, I wanted to see if anyone else would like to play the devil's advocate with me.

Kartana (Grass/Steel)


59/181/131/59/31/109


A lot of the talk surrounding it says that it should be banned, and with 181 Atk and 109 speed, it's easy to assume so. To attempt to balance it out, though, its move pool is lacking high power. Next to Giga Impact, its strongest move is STAB Leaf Blade. Its arsenal consists of Sacred Sword (90 BP), X-Scissor (80 BP), Leaf Blade (80 BP), Psycho Cut (70 BP), Night Slash (BP), Smart Strike (70 BP). High attack, but 'weak' moves. I've put together some calcs to demonstrate its effect on the meta vs some walls and various Pokemon along with some of my thoughts against other types. I decided to go with a classic LO set with a jolly nature.

Psychic
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 330-393 (83.7 - 99.7%) - hate Slowbro lol
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gallade: 257-304 (92.4 - 109.3%) - could use EVs

Flying
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Night Slash vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 147-173 (38.3 - 45.1%) - huh
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 199-235 (61.6 - 72.7%) - after rocks (multiscale removed)

Dark
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Mandibuzz: 138-164 (32.7 - 38.9)
Pretty much destroys the other Dark types though.

Fairy
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 335-398 (85 - 101%) - Flamethrower

Fighting
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cobalion: 265-312 (68.6 - 80.8%) - Twave but scarf fighting will be annoying anyway

Ground is going to have a tough time against Kartana, but as a Grass Pokemon, that's to be expected.
252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 346-408 (82.3 - 97.1%)
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 402-473 (126 - 148.2%) - beast boost

Water should be having a tough time too, but again, Grass type.
Dragon should be relatively fine.
Steel should also be fine with Skarmory and Mega Scizor as walls.

Grass, against the right moveset, will have trouble, making it important to play well with HP Fire Serp and Breloom.
Poison could be swept with SD + Psycho Cut + Smart Strike. Focus Blast Gengar is key or maybe scarf Nidoking? Salazzle will also roast it up.
Normal, Rock, and Ice are going to be rolled over from STAB + SSword.
Electric, Bug, Fire, and Ghost should be well off with Ghost being a questionable call, but with Gengar, Marshadow, Chandelure, and Sableye, I think it'll be fine.


After reading that, do you think Kartana has a place in the metagame or did it just serve to strengthen your reservations about it?

To me, Beast Boost is the deal breaker. I would have said this was fine (call me crazy), but Beast Boost will probably push this over the edge. I wanna see it actually play out first though.
 
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^ Kartana looks like it should be allowed at first. You're right in that the low BP of its moves really holds it back (see: Electivire); another thing worth mentioning is that due to its lopsided stats, Beast Boost will really only boost Attack (unless you purposefully gimp it so its speed is higher). This thing will make a dangerous scarfer, but its main downfall will be an inability to do much to most fire types, or anything it cannot hit SE. Hell, it cannot 2HKO Mega-Venusaur with Psycho Cut. Also, this thing loses instantly to vacuum wave and literally ANY special fire attack:

0 SpA Charmander (Ember) vs. 6 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 276-328 (106.1 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

... just wow. Anything that can live a hit from this thing can run HP fire and torch it.
 

dusk raimon

Banned deucer.
^ Kartana looks like it should be allowed at first. You're right in that the low BP of its moves really holds it back (see: Electivire); another thing worth mentioning is that due to its lopsided stats, Beast Boost will really only boost Attack (unless you purposefully gimp it so its speed is higher). This thing will make a dangerous scarfer, but its main downfall will be an inability to do much to most fire types, or anything it cannot hit SE. Hell, it cannot 2HKO Mega-Venusaur with Psycho Cut. Also, this thing loses instantly to vacuum wave and literally ANY special fire attack:

0 SpA Charmander (Ember) vs. 6 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 276-328 (106.1 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

... just wow. Anything that can live a hit from this thing can run HP fire and torch it.
on the topic of this I can see beast boost possibly boosting the most invested stat in terms of evs rather than the highest base stat overall, which could be interesting.
 
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