Salandit, Salazzle Discussion

Salazzle is so not taking hits well, even resisted ones unless it's a weak x4 resist to Fairy, Bug or Grass
This is not true. Salazzle can take high BP x4 resisted hits.

  • 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 40-48 (27.7 - 33.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
  • 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 38-44 (26.3 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
  • 252 Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 50-60 (34.7 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  • 252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 41-48 (28.4 - 33.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
  • 252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 33-39 (22.9 - 27%) -- 60.6% chance to 4HKO
  • 252+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 42-49 (29.1 - 34%) -- 2.2% chance to 3HKO
  • 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 19-23 (13.1 - 15.9%) -- possible 7HKO
  • 196+ SpA Pixilate Mega Altaria Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 26-31 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO
  • 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 56-66 (38.8 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

None of these moves are "weak" and all of them come off of high base offensive stats and salazzle outspeeds and 1/2hko's them(guaranteed ohko at +2). Although Salazzle is 2hko'd by high BP fighting and ice moves.
 
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6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
I think a niche option that could work with Salazzle is Dragon Tail. You can scare things like Serperior/Breloom/Ferrothorn/Shaymin etc. out - and then you can phase with said read. If they switch into a Fairy type (which, granted - they WONT), you have the typing to deal with that.

So...
Salazzle @ Expert Belt
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Venoshock
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic

Other options:
- Sludge Bomb
- Nasty Plot
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Poison Z-move

Anything else that I missed?
 
I think a niche option that could work with Salazzle is Dragon Tail. You can scare things like Serperior/Breloom/Ferrothorn/Shaymin etc. out - and then you can phase with said read. If they switch into a Fairy type (which, granted - they WONT), you have the typing to deal with that.

So...
Salazzle @ Expert Belt
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Fire Blast
- Venoshock
- Dragon Tail
- Toxic

Other options:
- Sludge Bomb
- Nasty Plot
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Poison Z-move

Anything else that I missed?
Eh,I feel like you'd just be better using toxic to cripple whatever comes in. It's not like Toxic can ever fail.
 

6ft Torbjorn

formerly JoycapJoshST
Eh,I feel like you'd just be better using toxic to cripple whatever comes in. It's not like Toxic can ever fail.
Yes and no. DT is for if you're predicting someone to switch into a threat, such as Gliscor/Hippowdon/SlowBros etc.
OK, the latter would be better off poisoned, yes... but I digress.
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
please don't use Toxic on this mon, being able to poison Steel types and Poison types does not change the fact that it's a glass cannon and glass cannons have no business running Toxic, it's simply not worth using
 
please don't use Toxic on this mon, being able to poison Steel types and Poison types does not change the fact that it's a glass cannon and glass cannons have no business running Toxic, it's simply not worth using
Gengar runs all sorts of Will-o-Wisp, Disable, Substitute, etc. sets, and that thing's still frail as hell.
 
please don't use Toxic on this mon, being able to poison Steel types and Poison types does not change the fact that it's a glass cannon and glass cannons have no business running Toxic, it's simply not worth using
Toxic is basically Salazzle's only chance at doing any kind of harm to Heatran (other than lol Hidden Power Ground), and with its questionable offensive movepool, it has room for Toxic.
 
Toxic is basically Salazzle's only chance at doing any kind of harm to Heatran (other than lol Hidden Power Ground), and with its questionable offensive movepool, it has room for Toxic.
Why would you run Toxic over Hidden Power Ground though? +2 Hidden Power Ground will OHKO Heatran.

As far as I'm concerned this only really seems to have one viable set.

Salazzle @ Life Orb
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Hidden Power Ground/Fighting

I'm not sure this has enough to end up in OU tbh, but UU for sure. Hidden Power Ground obviously hits Heatran and Toxapex/Tentacruel, Hidden Power Fighting will hit Tyranitar harder.

Dugtrio is going to be a huge thorn in this things side though.
 
I don't know about completely forgoing Toxic on Salazzle... I mean, yeah, the offensive sets are great and can definitely fit where you need them to on a team, but I think the ability to badly poison Toxapex is going to be huge. Not sure how relevant M-Venu is as a wall anymore but being able to poison that will be nice as well. I'm thinking a set along the lines of

Salazzle @ Life Orb
Ability: Corrosion
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Toxic
- Fire Blast
- Sludge Wave
- Nasty Plot / Taunt

Nothing amazing, but it has a decent amount of utility while also being able to do a good amount of damage as well. Leave your other teammates to take care of Heatran, although dropping a Toxic on the switch when it expects a fire attack would be nice.
 
Knock Off, Fake Out, Disable, Taunt, Wil O Wisp and Encore give it some interesting VGC options. Not sure if I'd want to waste my Focus Sash to put this on my team tho.
 

termi

bike is short for bichael
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
Gengar runs all sorts of Will-o-Wisp, Disable, Substitute, etc. sets, and that thing's still frail as hell.
Gengar also has a very nice set of immunities to capitalize on and tends to use multiple of these support moves on one set, no one is slapping WoW on a random Gengar set. It can do shit like force a switch, sub up, burn opponent on the switch, then threaten the opponent with a 130 BP Hex. Salazzle doesn't have Hex, doesn't have any immunities, etc.

Toxic is basically Salazzle's only chance at doing any kind of harm to Heatran (other than lol Hidden Power Ground), and with its questionable offensive movepool, it has room for Toxic.
HP Ground easily 2HKOs every non-Shuca Heatran though, which is a whole lot better than poisoning it and slowly wearing it down. Of course it technically has room for Toxic since it always has a free slot, but why should you want to waste that slot on Toxic when you can use it for Nasty Plot (set up on a forced switch and deal massive damage to whatever hopes to counter it) or Encore (lock a setup sweeper or a wall into a useless move in order to regain momentum)? Hell, if you're gonna use a status move, use Will-o-Wisp: at least it can burn an incoming Ttar or Garchomp or whatever, making those mons way easier to switch into (realistically this mon won't be OU but the argument still stands in the lower tiers).
 

Halcyon.

@Choice Specs
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Going for Toxic is a less committal move than going for HP Ground. If you're predicting a switch, Toxic will hit literally anything that switches in. If they have a Mega Venusaur and a Heatran, and you don't now which one they are going to switch into, Toxic is the safe play .Either way you get to hit something with a move that will limit its switches. But if you go for HP Ground and you predict wrong, then you just wasted a turn. That is a pretty major advantage of Toxic>HP Ground.
 
Seems like it has a lot of switch-in potential against it's x4 resistances, for example:

252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 86-102 (31 - 36.8%) -- 68.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salazzle: 55-66 (19.8 - 23.8%) -- possible 5HKO

Considering how paper thin it's defences are, it fares pretty well against some of the most powerful fairy and grass attacks in the current meta. Should make a good Grass and Fairy check for the most part, though with additional Water/Fairy typings maybe it's fairy checking niche isn't so good. Depending on what common coverage moves straight Grass and Fairy types run, it might not have too much trouble setting Nasty Plot, which with it's speed tier is considerable.
 
It's also worth mentioning that Nasty Plot Fire Blast Sludge Wave HP Ground Salazzle is completely walled by Air Balloon Heatran.

Anyways I think that even Nasty Plot 3 attacks should run Corrosion over Oblivious, especially if you're running Sludge Bomb. If it's early in the game and you're just throwing out attacks without setting up you could maybe poison an opposing Toxapex or something early, which goes a long way towards wearing it down.
 
Salazzle is a decent check to Serperior. It can take non boosted Leaf Storms and outspeed non Scarf variants, though boosted ones can do massive damage. It also gets destroyed by HP Ground which Serperior can sometimes carry.

Mega Gardevoir can simply use a Psychic move on the switch to OHKO Salazzle or bring it down to it's Sash.

As for Clefable, Sylveon and Florges which Salazzle is supposed to force out. All three can learn Psychic or Psyshock. I know these moves are rare on these Pokemon. Though if Salazzle becomes popular enough, people might start running either move to hit Salazzle hard on the switch or OHKO it with investment and or hazards.

Kind of stupid that many of the Pokemon Salazzle threatens can run coverage a move that hits it super effectively. Even 0 Sp Atk Clefable Psychic vs 0/0 Salazzle does a minimum of 67%. Clefable even has a decent 43% chance to OHKO 0/0 Salazzle with Rocks up. It's bulk is pretty damn crap.
 
It's also worth mentioning that Nasty Plot Fire Blast Sludge Wave HP Ground Salazzle is completely walled by Air Balloon Heatran.

Anyways I think that even Nasty Plot 3 attacks should run Corrosion over Oblivious, especially if you're running Sludge Bomb. If it's early in the game and you're just throwing out attacks without setting up you could maybe poison an opposing Toxapex or something early, which goes a long way towards wearing it down.
The Poison Attack never makes contact, it can't Poison steels while being offensive.

Only Toxic can. Or Poison Gas but...don't.
 
Oblivious on Salazzle seems to be pretty situational. It's only usable on instances were your opponent attempts to Taunt you if they expect Nasty Plot, T-Spikes (Which is useless against some teams) or Sub with priority Prankster or a faster Pokemon. All Prankster Pokemon have no reason to stay in, in case they get struck with a boosted Sludge Bomb / Fire Blast because none of them take them well. Really fast Taunters like Noivern or Aerodactyl who naturally outspeed Salazzle are much better off threatening to OHKO Salazzle with Earthquake or Boosted Draco rather than Taunting it.
 
I feel like people are underestimating the merit of a fast status inflicter. Most steel types and poison types don't have reliable recovery if recovery at all. The only safe switches into a toxic from this thing are immunity holders and toxic heal, the latter being the only prevalent ability in any tier where the abilities are on anything.

It gives Salazzle something to do on threat switch ins that it can't do anything to, which would make nasty plotting pointless. With the assumption that this is going in UU it's not really hard stopped by anything like it is in OU (Heatran being the main offender of this, whom will likely be OU till the end of time). I could see running toxic as a better option over hp ground.
 
Corrosion Toxic is this thing's main calling card. Without it I feel like it's going to end up overshadowed by Infernape, who sacrifices a bit of speed and power for a much better secondary STAB and movepool, and Infernape itself isn't even a particularly good Nasty Plot user. Maybe if it ends up in RU, but honestly Corrosion Toxic is just so great for breaking down stall teams.

I also feel like Taunt is mandatory on sets with Toxic (which should be all of them) at least for stopping Heal Bell users, which are nearly ubiquitous on the stall teams he's going to be putting in work against.
 
Corrosion Toxic is this thing's main calling card. Without it I feel like it's going to end up overshadowed by Infernape, who sacrifices a bit of speed and power for a much better secondary STAB and movepool, and Infernape itself isn't even a particularly good Nasty Plot user. Maybe if it ends up in RU, but honestly Corrosion Toxic is just so great for breaking down stall teams.

I also feel like Taunt is mandatory on sets with Toxic (which should be all of them) at least for stopping Heal Bell users, which are nearly ubiquitous on the stall teams he's going to be putting in work against.
I feel like that's putting too much value in Toxic. This thing doesn't have the stats to run a full annoyance set. I think focusing on attacking and toxicing when you expect something you can't do anything to is coming in is the way to go.

If this thing gets OU usage it's going to be the pure fact that a set of nasty plot/ fire blast/ sludgebomb/ toxic easily wins any one v one with a lot of the prominent faeries and steel types in OU or choice banded bullet punching scizor.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salazle: 122-144 (44 - 51.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

Tho...maybe not really. Fire blast is a def one shot. So is flamethrower if you so prefer. Mega Gardevoir can also easily one shot this but Salazzle is faster than it and:

252 SpA Life Orb Salazzle Sludge Bomb vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 265-315 (94.3 - 112%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

She also has the added benefit of completely not carrying about basically anything clefable can throw at it except for maybe an already set up stored power calm mind set, but that's about all I can find. I see some niche use of her in OU.
 
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I feel like that's putting too much value in Toxic. This thing doesn't have the stats to run a full annoyance set. I think focusing on attacking and toxicing when you expect something you can't do anything to is coming in is the way to go.

If this thing gets OU usage it's going to be the pure fact that a set of nasty plot/ fire blast/ sludgebomb/ toxic easily wins any one v one with a lot of the prominent faeries and steel types in OU or choice banded bullet punching scizor.

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salazle: 122-144 (44 - 51.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

Tho...maybe not really. Fire blast is a def one shot. So is flamethrower if you so prefer. Mega Gardevoir can also easily one shot this but Salazzle is faster than it and:

252 SpA Life Orb Salazzle Sludge Bomb vs. 16 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 265-315 (94.3 - 112%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

She also has the added benefit of completely not carrying about basically anything clefable can throw at it except for maybe an already set up stored power calm mind set, but that's about all I can find. I see some niche use of her in OU.
Any reason you chose Sludge Bomb? Sludge Wave has 5 more BP and thus an even better chance to OHKO MGard.
 
Between Corrsion and wate

30% chance to poison poison types on the switch.
Ehhh. Not worth it in my opinion. Toxapex and M-Venu both can handle normal poison alright, I think badly poisoning them is really the only way to stall them out.
 

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