Metagame Shared Power [Under Re-Construction!]

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Another thing to keep in mind is that stall teams that want a faster way to win than PP stall can run setup sweepers a lot easier than stall teams in standard metas, since PH+Magic Guard+Regen means they don't have to devote space to stuff like hazard control and clerics, and the relative utility of stuff like Toxic goes down a lot. Examples might be DD Multiscale Dragonite, CM Magic Guard Clefable, Curse Unaware Quagsire, Swords Dance Gliscor, Calm Mind Mega Sableye (hey, it still has utility), and so on and so forth. And these will pose a threat to almost any team that lacks Unaware, given enough time to set up.

Additionally, stall teams only have to worry about opposing Magic Guard on teams that both A) run it, and B) have recovery to heal off chip damage from regular attacks. So what if my hyper offense team doesn't take anything from Toxic? It still has to worry about 30%-40% Moonblasts chipping everything to death anyways.
 
Stall is actually really good and cancerous. Although typical stall teams in most metas use stuff like hazards and status to wear down opponents, that is unviable in this meta because magic guard is everywhere. So then what does stall resort too, well stalls goal is to not lose. Really all stall can try and do in this meta is just not lose and pp stall. With the abilities regenerator/magicguard/multiscale you can accomplish this really well and simply not lose by switching back and forward. This will basically force endless battles and the game to be on who has more time when you fight a stall team. I believe that after gyarados and kyurem-b gets banned then stall will run rampant and be a very good playstyle in this sense.
I guess, but at the same time, those abilities make it nearly impossible for stall to win games outright through PP stalling since the opponent can just switch constantly given that most stall teams don't have the offensive presence to negate regenerator. There's also quite a few mons and strategies that can muscle past stall pretty effectively since Unaware doesn't negate ability-granted power boosts (see the post above mine). I know stall is really scary on paper but in practice I have literally never seen it work in SP. If anyone has replays that prove me wrong I'd like to see em tho (that sounds like I'm being facetious, but genuinely I'd like to know)
 

Jrsmash9

jrsmash that timer
I guess, but at the same time, those abilities make it nearly impossible for stall to win games outright through PP stalling since the opponent can just switch constantly given that most stall teams don't have the offensive presence to negate regenerator. There's also quite a few mons and strategies that can muscle past stall pretty effectively since Unaware doesn't negate ability-granted power boosts (see the post above mine). I know stall is really scary on paper but in practice I have literally never seen it work in SP. If anyone has replays that prove me wrong I'd like to see em tho (that sounds like I'm being facetious, but genuinely I'd like to know)
Like I said, stall wont be able to win through normal means so it will resort to switching endlessly. Without broken moldbreaker users in the meta stall will thrive and will literaly just switch endlessly which in turn makes it whoever has more time (probally stall player). On stall there will be things like marvelscale/poisonheal/prankster/multiscale to combat really annoying things that unaware does not beat. If I get some replays of stall I will edit this post.
 
Like I said, stall wont be able to win through normal means so it will resort to switching endlessly. Without broken moldbreaker users in the meta stall will thrive and will literaly just switch endlessly which in turn makes it whoever has more time (probally stall player). On stall there will be things like marvelscale/poisonheal/prankster/multiscale to combat really annoying things that unaware does not beat. If I get some replays of stall I will edit this post.
I'm not sure exactly how Endless Battle Clause works, but I'm pretty sure it will end the battle if a certain number of turns pass with neither player using any PP.
 

Jrsmash9

jrsmash that timer
I'm not sure exactly how Endless Battle Clause works, but I'm pretty sure it will end the battle if a certain number of turns pass with neither player using any PP.
No thats not how the endless battle clause works. It will never trigger by switching endlessly unless someone has used a leppa berry in which the person who used it will lose after a certian number of turns of losing no pp.
 
No thats not how the endless battle clause works. It will never trigger by switching endlessly unless someone has used a leppa berry in which the person who used it will lose after a certian number of turns of losing no pp.
I tested it, and you appear to be correct. But since it should work that way, I'm reporting it as a bug.
 
Like I said, stall wont be able to win through normal means so it will resort to switching endlessly. Without broken moldbreaker users in the meta stall will thrive and will literaly just switch endlessly which in turn makes it whoever has more time (probally stall player). On stall there will be things like marvelscale/poisonheal/prankster/multiscale to combat really annoying things that unaware does not beat. If I get some replays of stall I will edit this post.
Buuut the replay above my post is a pretty solid example of why switching endlessly isn't as good as it sounds. Even with regenerator recovery and multiscale, every one of those mons is 2HKO'd by Zangoose's facade, and Zangoose isn't even that strong, not to mention the fact that Scrappy+Adaptability could be run over Quick Feet and Multiscale for even more stall crushing power. Prankster can't do anything to weaken the attackers either because will-o-wisp and t-wave are uneffective, and attack drops are ignored by Unaware, meaning if you want to run something like Intimidate or Charm (lol) + Prankster, you can't run Unaware anymore, which leaves a big hole in your team when up against boosting mons.

Even if you do have Unaware, have fun switching 'endlessly' as Necrozma/Victini boost up and then hit you with a 380 BP Adaptability boosted Stored Power.
 

Jrsmash9

jrsmash that timer
Buuut the replay above my post is a pretty solid example of why switching endlessly isn't as good as it sounds. Even with regenerator recovery and multiscale, every one of those mons is 2HKO'd by Zangoose's facade, and Zangoose isn't even that strong, not to mention the fact that Scrappy+Adaptability could be run over Quick Feet and Multiscale for even more stall crushing power. Prankster can't do anything to weaken the attackers either because will-o-wisp and t-wave are uneffective, and attack drops are ignored by Unaware, meaning if you want to run something like Intimidate or Charm (lol) + Prankster, you can't run Unaware anymore, which leaves a big hole in your team when up against boosting mons.

Even if you do have Unaware, have fun switching 'endlessly' as Necrozma/Victini boost up and then hit you with a 380 BP Adaptability boosted Stored Power.
First of all that is bad stall and a bot that does not know how to play stall lol. Stuff like barrier and iron defense is viable on stall in this meta, and prankster/ph can you help you recover more the half of your hp to get back to multiscale. So goodjob you can defeat a bots stall, and like I said before the gameplan is to "not lose" which will usually mean switching endlessly however if you see a threat you can use pp to recover/haze/boost defense/etc so common pokemon on stall easily beat necro and victini with haze like dragonite/quag/toxapex.
 
I don't really see how pp stalling is a viable way to win on stall as a huge amount of teams carry either magic guard or regenerator or both and so infinitely switching between Pokémon will stop pp stall ever happening. You're literally just banking on someone losing patience and forfeiting before you do, which isn't the most reliable thing in the world. The playstyle needs some kind of wincon or you need to utilise strategies like perish trapping for it to function.
 
I don't really see how pp stalling is a viable way to win on stall as a huge amount of teams carry either magic guard or regenerator or both and so infinitely switching between Pokémon will stop pp stall ever happening. You're literally just banking on someone losing patience and forfeiting before you do, which isn't the most reliable thing in the world. The playstyle needs some kind of wincon or you need to utilise strategies like perish trapping for it to function.
Well when Ursaring Adamant Adaptability Toxic Boost Guts Tough Claws Facade can only deal with Toxapex Iron Defense in pp stalling/taunt it, you know there is a problem. Stalls are impossible to wallbreak without playing a fucking luxray plz.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-221303
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-221309
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Sure, there are other ways to bypass stalls like running an unware mon in offense or stallbreak it with a story of gimmick trapping moves but that's very restrictive if any teams have to carry that to get a chance to do not lose against stalls. The issue is Multiscale, with Magic Guard and Prankster that's a weaker Fur Coat when the opponent isn't able to remove more than 56% of the life. Multiscale gives also to offense the opportunity to set up whenever without risking anything. Dragonite is in every team, in stalls like in offenses, not by accident, his ability is completely broken.

Ban Multiscale plz.
 
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To chime in on the talk about stall - stall not very good at all in this metagame. When powerful offensive abilities can be stacked on top of each other, defensive counterplay is really really hard to come by. This isn’t even accounting for abilities like Magic Guard and Magic Bounce, which hurt stall’s viability a lot. It’s really hard to rely on passive damage in order to beat your opponent when almost every single team has a way to invalidate it. It’s really just a fundamental fact to anyone who’s played even a few games- Stall is not good. They depend on some kind of offensive backbone to function.
 
Well when Ursaring Adamant Adaptability Toxic Boost Guts Tough Claws Facade can only deal with Toxapex Iron Defense in pp stalling/taunt it, you know there is a problem. Stalls are impossible to wallbreak without playing a fucking luxray plz.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-221303
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-221309
.
Sure, there are other ways to bypass stalls like running an unware mon in offense or stallbreak it with a story of gimmick trapping moves but that's very restrictive if any teams have to carry that to get a chance to do not lose against stalls. The issue is Multiscale, with Magic Guard and Prankster that's a weaker Fur Coat when the opponent isn't able to remove more than 56% of the life. Multiscale gives also to offense the opportunity to set up whenever without risking anything. Dragonite is in every team, in stalls like in offenses, not by accident, his ability is completely broken.

Ban Multiscale plz.
You're missing my point by talking about 'breaking' it. Yeah, they are hard to barrel through, but what are they actually doing to your team? In the iron defense Toxapex situation there's literally nothing stopping you switching between Stoutland and Crawdaunt infinitely to pp stall it because it's not doing enough damage to bypass Toxic Heal with scald or knock or whatever. Stall is hard to break but its way of winning is limited to boring the opponent to death, which isn't really broken.

That said, Regenerator should go, because these infinite switching wars aren't good for the meta in any way.
 
I mean, a lot of times Regenerator is easy to break, you just need to be able to do more than 1/3 of their health.
It's not about it being broken in the traditional sense as it is unhealthy, since it facilitates endless battles via infinite switching, and when every pokemon on your team has this ability and it's such a common one within the meta it makes endless switching a far more commonplace option when playing both with and against bulky playstyles.
 

Jrsmash9

jrsmash that timer
Dont ban regenerator lol the next thing that needs to go is kyurem-b which is arguably better then gyarados. They both have little counter play and should both be banned but the problem is after kyu and gyarados are banned people will just start using pangoro and haxorus which will be just as threatening. I think we really need to ban moldbreaker and terravolt as it literally invalidates so many playstyles, here is a replay showing kyu just run through offense. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-221808
 
Dont ban regenerator lol the next thing that needs to go is kyurem-b which is arguably better then gyarados. They both have little counter play and should both be banned but the problem is after kyu and gyarados are banned people will just start using pangoro and haxorus which will be just as threatening. I think we really need to ban moldbreaker and terravolt as it literally invalidates so many playstyles, here is a replay showing kyu just run through offense. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rom-gen7sharedpower-221808
Yeah, yeah, I haven't been here a while (school stuff). But I would to mention to be wary of this character because I think he wants a Stall meta in a mostly HO meta. If you wanna ban Kyurem-Black, you gotta show proof. And a battle between you and Highlord where you didn't prepare for Kyu-B, I would say, doesn't count. If I were to make a new team, because I have been gone for a while (haven't been here since Simple ban *cries*), I would somehow prepare for a Scarf Kyurem-B. Maybe a bulky Fairy type, a fast Dragon type. Once you make a good counter(s) to Kyurem-Black and you test against it and it fails, then complain how it's overpowered.

Lastly, who in their right mind would use a Pangoro? Even in Kyu-B is banned? The only thing I heard out of that is asking Haaku to just straight out ban Mold Breaker. And to be completely honest, why haven't you? Are you just singling them out one by one so that happens, in other words, being manipulative?
 
Tbh if mold breaker was outright banned , what would its effect be on the meta as a whole ? Would stall become more effective to the point of this meta becoming as stall infested as ts ? Or would stall be relatively the same in amount of effectiveness and playstyles like balance would start to be note effective as less things can break their designated walls? I haven't gotten the chance to play this meta much but I just wanna say think on the questions above and so much more before you say to just outright ban any form of mold breaking abilities. M gyara might be dangerous especially with dd, its bulk making setup easy and the abilities it can borrow from teammates making it stronger, but I'd just say personally that I wouldn't like to see this meta devolve into what tier shift is this gen, dominated by stall.
 

Jrsmash9

jrsmash that timer
Yeah, yeah, I haven't been here a while (school stuff). But I would to mention to be wary of this character because I think he wants a Stall meta in a mostly HO meta. If you wanna ban Kyurem-Black, you gotta show proof. And a battle between you and Highlord where you didn't prepare for Kyu-B, I would say, doesn't count. If I were to make a new team, because I have been gone for a while (haven't been here since Simple ban *cries*), I would somehow prepare for a Scarf Kyurem-B. Maybe a bulky Fairy type, a fast Dragon type. Once you make a good counter(s) to Kyurem-Black and you test against it and it fails, then complain how it's overpowered.

Lastly, who in their right mind would use a Pangoro? Even in Kyu-B is banned? The only thing I heard out of that is asking Haaku to just straight out ban Mold Breaker. And to be completely honest, why haven't you? Are you just singling them out one by one so that happens, in other words, being manipulative?
Not sure what you are trying to say here as you are contradicting yourself, but kyurem can run things like unburden, quick feet, choice scarf to run through teams that have no way of boosting speed other then scarf. I think you are saying moldbreaker should be banned and that is why people will use pangoro after kyu and gyarados are banned because the ability is so busted.
 
Okay I’m just going to put a stop to this discussion because all of the points have already been made and remade on both sides. Leave it to the council at this point to take a stance on regenerator/mold breaker/etc, but since we’re here, I’ll just give my own and address some of the arguments that have been made.

That said, Regenerator should go, because these infinite switching wars aren't good for the meta in any way.
If you’re familiar with the Shared Power metagame, you’ll know there really isn’t such a thing as infinite switching wars at all. The fundamental premise of Shared Power means you can literally have a Pokemon with Adaptability, Sheer Force, Tough Claws, and Stakeout all in one. It’s really not a good idea to switch around your defensive options when they take >50% even behind a Multiscale. This is why, despite being an OU-based metagame, a Pokemon as influential in OU as Toxapex isn’t even half as good in this metagame- it just can’t afford to keep up with the insane power creep that standard tiers do not see. I will not be for banning Regenerator any time soon.

Dont ban regenerator lol the next thing that needs to go is kyurem-b which is arguably better then gyarados. They both have little counter play and should both be banned but the problem is after kyu and gyarados are banned people will just start using pangoro and haxorus which will be just as threatening.
Are we really calling Haxorus and Pangoro “just as threatening” as Mega Gyarados? Come on now, that’s a ridiculous notion and clearly just hyperbole. You don’t even acknowledge Excadrill, a great Mold Breaker user on stall teams thanks to its ability to reliably set hazards against other stall teams. The reason Mega Gyarados is far above Mold Breaker was explained in the suspect post, but basically, Kyurem-Black cannot break all archetypes nearly as well as Mega Gyarados can. Gyarados has the superior typing, pre-Mega ability, and setup capabilities. Kyurem-Black shines as a stallbreaker thanks to Contrary in conjunction with Teravolt. It’s not nearly as dominant against offensive teams. The replay you show involves a team that’s just not ready for Shared Power’s power creep- it just seems like a gimmick that can’t hold against the more powerful archetypes like Sticky Web and Trick Room. Again, I am not going to support outright banning Mold Breaker any time soon.

Tbh if mold breaker was outright banned , what would its effect be on the meta as a whole ? Would stall become more effective to the point of this meta becoming as stall infested as ts ?
Well, right now stall isn’t very dominant or infesting. If Mold Breaker were to be banned, stall would definitely see an increase, albeit it still will struggle against powerful wallbreakers that can just stack offensive abilities on top of each other as I said above. I think even if it were banned stall would still be in a bad place. This isn’t about whether we want stall in the metagame or not though- it’s simply about not banning an ability that’s just not broken.

Hopefully that clears up some points. For now, I’d like for the discussion to remain about Blaziken and Mega Gyarados as there is a little over a week until the suspect test is finalized. These Pokemon have been underrepresented as far as discussion goes and I believe they’re far more relevant to the current metagame.
 
Hmm, first time I see this meta. Looks interesting, there are lots of possibilities. One thing I notice though, why would Stall EVER be good in a meta where Magic Guard is Share-able? Magic Guard is pretty much mandatory in HO because,
1. It gives you Recoil-less LO
2. Make strong recoil moves like Flare Blitz, Head Smash, well, recoil-free
2. Ignores hazards and damaging status

So, because of this, you can just slap a MG mon + 4-5 strong wallbreakers with stacking abilities and it will do well vs Stall. No matter what, with Magic Guard you can't be PASSIVELY worn down whatsoever, while in general, Stall's goal is to wear you down PASSIVELY. The only hope for Stall to exist is through PP-stalling, that's it.

Regarding Multiscale, is it broken? Well, it won't be broken in Stall for sure, but Magic Guard basically makes you ALWAYS have 100% health first turn, so it may be another necessity for HO to live a hit when it's HO vs HO. I can see it being broken in that regard.
 
Unrelated to any of this, the banner has been bugging me. The framing suggests to me that the team shown is intended to support Victini -- Dry Skin and Levitate to shore up its weaknesses, Beast Boost makes up for Speed drops... what does Ttar + Excadrill accomplish? After the weather abilities restriction, it's just a sand core on top of the rest of the team, and while those two certainly do benefit from Levitate+Dry Skin+Beast Boost, they don't do anything for the rest of the team, especially Victini, who is clearly supposed to be the star of the show.

With all that in mind, I decided to remake the banner to better capture the spirit of what the original was going for.

sharedpower.png

To quickly overview, this gives Victini:
  • Drought, to boost V-Create and reduce damage from Water-types
  • Magic Guard, to prevent miscellaneous damage (including rocks damage)
  • Psychic Surge, to interfere with revenge killing and boost Zen Headbutt.
  • Beast Boost, to let Victini (sometimes) ignore Speed drops from V-Create.
  • Multiscale, to let Victini survive (almost) any one hit.
Beyond that, the team was just designed to be a broadly synergistic hyper offense team. I was kind of hesitant to add Dragonite since Multiscale could still get the restricthammer, but in the current state of the meta it's probably the default choice for slot 6. I still have the project file open on my computer, so any one teammate can be hot-swapped for something else.

On the topic of the meta, and STILL not touching the stall conversation, I've found that Magic Guard + Sturdy + Skill Link + Technician + Dazzling is a really strong strategy. Technician+Skill Link makes for super-strong attacks without running up against Unaware and ignore opposing Multiscale and Sturdy; meanwhile, Magic Guard + Sturdy makes it particularly easy to set up and beat offense, as teams without multi-hit moves are generally spending a few slots to buff their damage output, which does not help them whatsoever when you can go down to Sturdy and revenge kill. Dazzling just makes it harder for your setup sweepers to be revenge-killed, and Bruxish is a decently powerful mon anyways. The last slot is flexible, but I like to run Lucario.

I'm not exaggerating when I say I've had multiple games in which Cloyster leads, sets up Shell Smash on Turn 1, and spends the next six turns OHKOing the entire opposing team, just because the opponent wasn't prepared. It struggles with Unaware teams that have the right defensive cores to wall the strat (think Milotic+Gliscor+Mega Venusaur), but beyond that I don't think there are any major issues. I'm not going to paste my team -- I'd rather see people put their own spin on the concept.
 
Hmm, first time I see this meta. Looks interesting, there are lots of possibilities. One thing I notice though, why would Stall EVER be good in a meta where Magic Guard is Share-able? Magic Guard is pretty much mandatory in HO because,
1. It gives you Recoil-less LO
2. Make strong recoil moves like Flare Blitz, Head Smash, well, recoil-free
2. Ignores hazards and damaging status

So, because of this, you can just slap a MG mon + 4-5 strong wallbreakers with stacking abilities and it will do well vs Stall. No matter what, with Magic Guard you can't be PASSIVELY worn down whatsoever, while in general, Stall's goal is to wear you down PASSIVELY. The only hope for Stall to exist is through PP-stalling, that's it.

Regarding Multiscale, is it broken? Well, it won't be broken in Stall for sure, but Magic Guard basically makes you ALWAYS have 100% health first turn, so it may be another necessity for HO to live a hit when it's HO vs HO. I can see it being broken in that regard.
Stall exists through PP stall, and is actually viable that way. Against a team that doesn't quite hit hard enough it can literally just keep switching with regenerator and never lose. Unaware stops setup, Magic Guard stops hazards and status, Regenerator gives you the passive healing, and Multiscale means that your opponent effectively has to be able to do 73% to your Pokémon in order to break through (to break that Multiscale you have to do over 33%, which means 66% normally, and you add Leftovers to that). And then you add Pressure to make it even worse. You can even add Shell Armor or Poison Heal to it. Now, I don't like Poison Heal as much because I enjoy running Toxapex on these teams, but you could remove Pressure to add Corrosion in and run a Toxic Orb. Great meme strategy! Marvel Scale can also be added to that for more bulk. So stall is pretty good, but has its checks. And its biggest check is Mega Gyarados, which can set up with Dragon Dance and break through the Unaware. But it looks like Mega Gyarados is going to go, which will make stall even better. But for now it is a great check. However, I have tried using Intimidate to counter it. Now, normally Intimidate is useless because Unaware will ignore the attack drop. But Mega Gyarados ignores Unaware, so the attack drops will be there. Now a Substitute set could beat that, but just add an Infiltrator mon!
Another thing stall loses to is extreme HO. It can often break through Multiscale and destroy any stall team. However, a Substitute+Protect+Poison Heal+Pressure+Dazzling+Prankster team could potentially beat that. You can't outpriority the Prankster Substitute, and you can just PP stall by clicking Substitute and then Protect.
Finally, Multihit HO can demolish Stall. You break through the Multiscale and any Substitutes, and do massive damage. Skill Link+Technician=187 Bullet Seeds, Rock Blasts, Icicle Spears, and Pin Missiles.
And that's a basic summary of stall. Now for my thoughts on Magic Guard and Multiscale.

Magic Guard is almost a mandatory ability for teams. As Chopin mentioned, you are immune to Hazards, Status, Life Orb recoil, and Recoil Damage. It also allows for Multiscale and Sturdy to remain intact. It completely invalidates Iron Barbs, Rough Skin, and Rocky Helmet, and gives you no Mind Blown health loss, no Solar Power damage, and no Dry Skin HP loss from sun. You are not damaged by Whirlpool's passive damage, and you ignore Leech Seed. So there's a legitimate argument for banning it. But I'm against it because bans can be a slippery slope. Ban Magic Guard, and Ferrothorn+Garchomp invalidates any physical attacker. It makes Hazards good again, and would destroy Multiscale and Sturdy. Now that's not necessarily bad, but it could improve a lot of Hyper Offense, potentially to the point of being too good. It would also destroy a lot of HO. All in all, it would drastically change the metagame.
Now, Multiscale also has an argument for banning it. Hyper Offense doesn't run it as much because Hyper Offense beats Hyper Offense via other methods such as Dazzling, Psychic Surge, Sturdy, and outspeeding. For example, an Unburden Psychic Surge with Sturdy team beats a Brave Bird Priority Team or a Triage team, but loses to Multihit with Sturdy or opposing Terrain. It also loses to stall. Multihit teams lose to Priority teams, but with Bruxish they counter them. It's a complicated RPS system. Now, a Multiscale ban would also have large repercussions on the metagame, but possibly less so than Magic Guard. I am still not in favor of it because it would make Sturdy even better and destroy bulkier teams, which are necessary to counter Unburden teams.
Now, Dazzling is another extremely common ability. Depending on the team it can be better or worse than Psychic Surge. But overall it destroys a lot of team archetypes. However, I would still not ban it.

So that's my opinion on some of the best abilities and strategies in the metagame. I'm working on a HO guide so I can post that soon too. Hope this was helpful!
 
No, I would NOT recommend to ban Magic Guard. It'd made offense a LOT worse. It now loses to LO recoil, Hazard, Toxic, Leech Seed and Iron Barbs/Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet, while stall now can EASILY wear down offense through multiple layer of defense while they can just recover off Regen + PH. If you ban Magic Guard, mark my words, Stall will be overpowered. Magic Guard is a necessary evil for this meta.
 
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