Metagame Sketchmons

Ok so it's 27th of January now and I announce that the suspect is now over. The results are...

Shift Gear: 8 Ban, 0 No Ban
+1 All Stats Z-moves: 8 Ban, 0 No Ban

With that said Shift Gear and +1 All Stats Z-moves are now banned from sketching.
This means that ALL +1 stats Z-moves will be banned from sketching.
The moves are:

Celebrate
Conversion
Forest's Curse
Happy Hour
Hold Hands
Purify
Sketch
Trick or Treat

Tagging The Immortal for implementation.
This feels like an odd time to realize this, but wouldn't banning sketch from being sketched defeat the point? If concept of the metagame is that anything can use sketch, it wouldn't be possible to prevent sketch from being an ingame-valid moveset; you wouldn't be "sketching" that in the first place. I feel like it would be more consistent to just ban the move Sketch from use; the only downside would be a very tiny nerf to Smeargle.
Speaking of Smeargle, is it correct to assume that Smeargle cant use moves that are banned from sketching?

E:
This is giving me a headache
This would mean that sketch would be banned outright rather than banned from sketching.
 
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This feels like an odd time to realize this, but wouldn't banning sketch from being sketched defeat the point? If concept of the metagame is that anything can use sketch, it wouldn't be possible to prevent sketch from being an ingame-valid moveset; you wouldn't be "sketching" that in the first place. I feel like it would be more consistent to just ban the move Sketch from use; the only downside would be a very tiny nerf to Smeargle.
Speaking of Smeargle, is it correct to assume that Smeargle cant use moves that are banned from sketching?
This is giving me a headache
 
It would appear that both are getting banned, which is great news for the meta imo.

Now looking at potential next suspects (ik that it will be unlikely we get one any time soon) i feel as though diggersby and transform chansey need a suspect.

Diggersby: huge power is broke, now it gets +2 prio, in espeed, which is incidentally a powerful stab move as well. Also it gets swords dance, giving it the potential to cause havoc on a team lacking ghost types. Also it still gets 280 speed, meaning it can outspeed a lot of things normally without prio, and EQ hits like a truck.

Chansey/blissey: There is a reason imposter is banned in aaa, and the reason is that its broke af. Its imo a cheap strategy thats on par wiith like innards out. Ur opp outplays u/predicts well and sets up to sweep ur team... but oh wait lemme just steal ur sweep and sweep ur team instead. Ditto is fine... but chansey/blissey is just ridiculous.
 

Funbot28

Banned deucer.
It would appear that both are getting banned, which is great news for the meta imo.

Now looking at potential next suspects (ik that it will be unlikely we get one any time soon) i feel as though diggersby and transform chansey need a suspect.

Diggersby: huge power is broke, now it gets +2 prio, in espeed, which is incidentally a powerful stab move as well. Also it gets swords dance, giving it the potential to cause havoc on a team lacking ghost types. Also it still gets 280 speed, meaning it can outspeed a lot of things normally without prio, and EQ hits like a truck.

Chansey/blissey: There is a reason imposter is banned in aaa, and the reason is that its broke af. Its imo a cheap strategy thats on par wiith like innards out. Ur opp outplays u/predicts well and sets up to sweep ur team... but oh wait lemme just steal ur sweep and sweep ur team instead. Ditto is fine... but chansey/blissey is just ridiculous.
I wouldn't mind suspecting Diggersby cause its always been lowkey broken since it beats all relevant Ghosts with its Ground STAB besides Dhelmise (but it sucks so).

However I really don't agree with the pink blobs suspect. Yeh we all know that Transform is annoying but like running Taunt on any setup sweeper really just shuts them down and the comparison to Imposter is honestly non-sensical to me because here Chansey/Blissey actually need to waste a turn transforming, which makes an astronomical difference. To me, if u get countered by these pokemon, it's more the fault of the player then the actual pokemons themselves.
 
This feels like an odd time to realize this, but wouldn't banning sketch from being sketched defeat the point? If concept of the metagame is that anything can use sketch, it wouldn't be possible to prevent sketch from being an ingame-valid moveset; you wouldn't be "sketching" that in the first place. I feel like it would be more consistent to just ban the move Sketch from use; the only downside would be a very tiny nerf to Smeargle.
Speaking of Smeargle, is it correct to assume that Smeargle cant use moves that are banned from sketching?

E:

This would mean that sketch would be banned outright rather than banned from sketching.
Sketch isn't even a sketchable move in the first place, so of course the move will be banned in general. As it stands, the code for Sketchmons has to make a specific allowance for Pokémon actually being able to use the move Sketch in the first place since being able to learn it exactly once isn't something the simulator is built to account for (Necturna is a hard-coded exception).
 
Are you still gonna be able to use Z Conversion Porygon tho? cause it gets it naturally, and with an Extra sketchmove, its sounds kinda OP
Seems that way- that's how it is implemented on Showdown right now. Porygon Z is a menace on its own to begin with, lol. Specs or scarf with boomburst are more popular for the immediate power/speed but Z-Conversation is still insanity.

Edit: yeah after like 3 games of testing, with Boomburst (or tri attack with skeched flamethrower, tbh) or Moongeist Beam this thing still isnt fair. You can play awful then just find an opportunity to set up then OHKO everything. I know its not part of the ban we voted on since its not "sketching" the +1 Z-Moves but I still think it's a little ridiculous and should be considered for a ban in the same vein.
 
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I wouldn't mind suspecting Diggersby cause its always been lowkey broken since it beats all relevant Ghosts with its Ground STAB besides Dhelmise (but it sucks so).

However I really don't agree with the pink blobs suspect. Yeh we all know that Transform is annoying but like running Taunt on any setup sweeper really just shuts them down and the comparison to Imposter is honestly non-sensical to me because here Chansey/Blissey actually need to waste a turn transforming, which makes an astronomical difference. To me, if u get countered by these pokemon, it's more the fault of the player then the actual pokemons themselves.
ig ur right. Maybe i just have a personal vendetta against blob. However come to think of it, without like SG and +1zmoves, chansey should be far less annoying as it wont be able to snatch loads of insane boosts.

However, digger needs to be suspected, its absolutely incredible.
 

boxofkangaroos

this is the day of the expanding man
Are you still gonna be able to use Z Conversion Porygon tho? cause it gets it naturally, and with an Extra sketchmove, its sounds kinda OP
+1 all stats Z-Moves were banned from Sketching, so that means Pokemon that already learn them are still able to use them.
 
Why Nerdy , on the ladder right now, shift gear or lovely kiss (or other banned-from-sketching moves) Smeargle is legal, while them being banned from sketching should mean that of those moves only spore (event) should be legal on it. Is this intended behavior, and if so why?
 
So is dugtrio allowed to use electrify?
Yes, but why would you when you can use many other silly methods to make their beloved walls KOed, like Bolt Strike and V-Create?

Why Nerdy , on the ladder right now, shift gear or lovely kiss (or other banned-from-sketching moves) Smeargle is legal, while them being banned from sketching should mean that of those moves only spore (event) should be legal on it. Is this intended behavior, and if so why?
...What is Smeargle going to do with Lovely Kiss and Shift Gear? It's not like it can Baton Pass huge boosts out to terrifying things. Let the mascot have something in this world of ours... It's going to be completely balanced compared to our Mega Metagrosses, Scizors, and Porygon-Zs.
 
I've been having a lot of fun with physical Tapu Koko

Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Wild Charge
- Brave Bird
- U-turn
 

Chloe

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
NUPL Champion

I'd like to bring attention to the common Sketchmons threat Mimikyu and its current effect within the metagame. I'd like to address five points:
  • What it does.
  • How it fairs against other current metagame threats.
  • The negative impact it has on the metagame by remaining.
  • Any detrimental side effects present by removing it.
  • My proposal on what must be done.
Mimikyu is easily the best set-up sweeper in the Gen 7 Sketchmons metagame, with access to Disguise to allow Belly Drum to be set up efficiently without the issues other Pokémon face. It also has STAB priority, two powerful STAB attacks in Play Rough and Shadow Claw, as well as a limited amount of checks post-Belly Drum. With Belly Drum set up, Mimikyu can easily destroy any unprepared team; however, this can be said for a lot of Pokémon within the metagame. The issue with Belly Drum Mimikyu is its limited amount of checks. Players may have to rely on Scarf Tapu Lele, Quagsire or Skarmory to even have a chance against this Pokémon. All three of these are not perfect though.

Tapu Lele: the issue with Tapu Lele being a check for Mimikyu is that although Psychic Terrain easily blocks Shadow Sneak, Mimikyu still outspeeds, hence Tapu Lele is required to use a Choice Scarf to "reliably check" Mimikyu. There are also a few more issues associated with Tapu Lele being a check though. Firstly, Tapu Lele's Psychic does not OHKO Mimikyu with Disguise already taken care of; so Tapu Lele may have to waste its sketch on Moongeist Beam, Psystrike or Psycho Boost instead of opting for a superior option in Searing Shot or Earth Power as coverage to break Steel-types. (It's required to run Psyshock instead which can mean less damage output on a lot of common Pokémon. It also doesn't guarantee an OHKO with that either.*) The effectiveness of Tapu Lele also boils down to the duration of Psychic Terrain. A user can play Mimikyu in such a way so that Tapu Lele is forced to come in on the last turn of Psychic Terrain and therefore means one Pokémon must be sacked first before Psychic Terrain can be put up again. Relying on Terrain to check Mimikyu is unhealthy, especially in a metagame where any Pokémon can sketch Sticky Web and remove the functionality of Tapu Lele's Choice Scarf. This is assuming something has broken the Disguise first, and that is often not the case.
>252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mimikyu: 211-249 (84 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Quagsire: although Quagsire is arguably a quite reliable check due to its access to Unaware, it can easily be defeated if Mimikyu decides to opt for Wood Hammer over Shadow Claw. While this does impair Mimikyu, it can still effectively sweep, especially because of Wood Hammer's high damage output, as it does more damage to neutral hits than Shadow Claw does. Quagsire can Haze on the first hit as Wood Hammer does not OHKO, though this often means it is useless for the remainder of the match. Quagsire isn't the most viable Pokémon otherwise, so dedicating a slot to a Mimikyu check can make you see how potent Belly Drum Mimikyu really is within the metagame.
>252 Atk Mimikyu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 328-388 (83.2 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Skarmory: the only other Pokémon that comes close to checking Mimikyu post-Belly Drum is Skarmory due to its insane natural bulk and defensive typing. This however is kind of redundant when realising the problem Skarmory has is that it cannot remove Mimikyu from the match but only phaze it. Switching in on the Belly Drum means Disguise is still up, so Steel-type STAB is not an option. Shadow Claw does approximately 65% to max Defense Skarmory, so if the Skarmory user opts to break Disguise, they have essentially just sacked their Skarmory. Skarmory can also be efficiently removed for Mimikyu with the use of a Magnet Pull user such as Magnezone, which is quite viable in the current meta with an abundance of Steel-types present throughout.
>+6 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 202-238 (60.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Does requiring such a solid check mean this Pokémon is detrimental to the metagame?
That is not the case, but the lack of solid checks means that the same three Pokémon are required to be used on every team. The inability for the three Pokémon listed above to efficiently check Mimikyu also adds to its unhealthiness. Mimikyu easily OHKOs any other threat bar Sturdy/Focus Sash users or Physically Defensive Pyroar. x_x

What is the core of the issue, Mimikyu or Belly Drum?
In my honest opinion, the presence of Mimikyu on the metagame isn't dangerously unhealthy. The combination of itself and Belly Drum is however. Belly Drum can be run on any Pokémon, but the use of Disguise to aid its set up is the issue. Belly Drum can be run on other Pokémon too, faster sweepers can abuse it granted a Memento user or screen support is provided to aid its potential sweep. Belly Drum allows any Pokémon to get to insane levels of Attack within one turn, and with the right amount of support, this is possible for any user.

If we removed Mimikyu from the metagame, drastic side effects may potentially occur. Mimikyu is used to blanket check a myriad of metagame threats regardless of its access to Belly Drum. With Swords Dance, Mimikyu can still be run as a potent offensive Pokémon, with access to two strong STAB attacks and the potential for Fighting-type coverage if it can't sketch Belly Drum. As I mentioned in the prior paragraph, Mimikyu is not broken without Belly Drum but is with it. There is no detrimental effect on the metagame if Belly Drum itself is removed instead of Mimikyu. Belly Drum is unhealthy regardless of whether Mimikyu is the sole user or if multiple Pokémon abuse it. Almost any Pokémon can set it up with the right amount of support, and a large selection of Pokémon can benefit off of its usage. The three aforementioned checks cannot handle every single Belly Drum user however.

I believe that Belly Drum should be quickbanned before the start of the Sketchmons Open. The metagame is borderline unplayable with the presence of Belly Drum Mimikyu, and this should really be altered before a swarm of tournament players join the metagame only to discover it's literally "Mimikyu vs Scarf Lele" the metagame. A suspect test will only receive the same result, and while I'm not one to believe that this should be the sole reason to quickban anything, I have explained time and time again why the removal of Belly Drum doesn't hurt the metagame in any way but only strengthens its playability. As an avid Sketchmons player, I hope my concerns have been heard and that some action can be taken towards this threat in the immediate future.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad

I'd like to bring attention to the common Sketchmons threat Mimikyu and its current effect within the metagame. I'd like to address five points:
  • What it does.
  • How it fairs against other current metagame threats.
  • The negative impact it has on the metagame by remaining.
  • Any detrimental side effects present by removing it.
  • My proposal on what must be done.
Mimikyu is easily the best set-up sweeper in the Gen 7 Sketchmons metagame, with access to Disguise to allow Belly Drum to be set up efficiently without the issues other Pokémon face. It also has STAB priority, two powerful STAB attacks in Play Rough and Shadow Claw, as well as a limited amount of checks post-Belly Drum. With Belly Drum set up, Mimikyu can easily destroy any unprepared team; however, this can be said for a lot of Pokémon within the metagame. The issue with Belly Drum Mimikyu is its limited amount of checks. Players may have to rely on Scarf Tapu Lele, Quagsire or Skarmory to even have a chance against this Pokémon. All three of these are not perfect though.

Tapu Lele: the issue with Tapu Lele being a check for Mimikyu is that although Psychic Terrain easily blocks Shadow Sneak, Mimikyu still outspeeds, hence Tapu Lele is required to use a Choice Scarf to "reliably check" Mimikyu. There are also a few more issues associated with Tapu Lele being a check though. Firstly, Tapu Lele's Psychic does not OHKO Mimikyu with Disguise already taken care of; so Tapu Lele may have to waste its sketch on Moongeist Beam, Psystrike or Psycho Boost instead of opting for a superior option in Searing Shot or Earth Power as coverage to break Steel-types. (It's required to run Psyshock instead which can mean less damage output on a lot of common Pokémon. It also doesn't guarantee an OHKO with that either.*) The effectiveness of Tapu Lele also boils down to the duration of Psychic Terrain. A user can play Mimikyu in such a way so that Tapu Lele is forced to come in on the last turn of Psychic Terrain and therefore means one Pokémon must be sacked first before Psychic Terrain can be put up again. Relying on Terrain to check Mimikyu is unhealthy, especially in a metagame where any Pokémon can sketch Sticky Web and remove the functionality of Tapu Lele's Choice Scarf. This is assuming something has broken the Disguise first, and that is often not the case.
>252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mimikyu: 211-249 (84 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Quagsire: although Quagsire is arguably a quite reliable check due to its access to Unaware, it can easily be defeated if Mimikyu decides to opt for Wood Hammer over Shadow Claw. While this does impair Mimikyu, it can still effectively sweep, especially because of Wood Hammer's high damage output, as it does more damage to neutral hits than Shadow Claw does. Quagsire can Haze on the first hit as Wood Hammer does not OHKO, though this often means it is useless for the remainder of the match. Quagsire isn't the most viable Pokémon otherwise, so dedicating a slot to a Mimikyu check can make you see how potent Belly Drum Mimikyu really is within the metagame.
>252 Atk Mimikyu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 328-388 (83.2 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Skarmory: the only other Pokémon that comes close to checking Mimikyu post-Belly Drum is Skarmory due to its insane natural bulk and defensive typing. This however is kind of redundant when realising the problem Skarmory has is that it cannot remove Mimikyu from the match but only phaze it. Switching in on the Belly Drum means Disguise is still up, so Steel-type STAB is not an option. Shadow Claw does approximately 65% to max Defense Skarmory, so if the Skarmory user opts to break Disguise, they have essentially just sacked their Skarmory. Skarmory can also be efficiently removed for Mimikyu with the use of a Magnet Pull user such as Magnezone, which is quite viable in the current meta with an abundance of Steel-types present throughout.
>+6 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 202-238 (60.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Does requiring such a solid check mean this Pokémon is detrimental to the metagame?
That is not the case, but the lack of solid checks means that the same three Pokémon are required to be used on every team. The inability for the three Pokémon listed above to efficiently check Mimikyu also adds to its unhealthiness. Mimikyu easily OHKOs any other threat bar Sturdy/Focus Sash users or Physically Defensive Pyroar. x_x

What is the core of the issue, Mimikyu or Belly Drum?
In my honest opinion, the presence of Mimikyu on the metagame isn't dangerously unhealthy. The combination of itself and Belly Drum is however. Belly Drum can be run on any Pokémon, but the use of Disguise to aid its set up is the issue. Belly Drum can be run on other Pokémon too, faster sweepers can abuse it granted a Memento user or screen support is provided to aid its potential sweep. Belly Drum allows any Pokémon to get to insane levels of Attack within one turn, and with the right amount of support, this is possible for any user.

If we removed Mimikyu from the metagame, drastic side effects may potentially occur. Mimikyu is used to blanket check a myriad of metagame threats regardless of its access to Belly Drum. With Swords Dance, Mimikyu can still be run as a potent offensive Pokémon, with access to two strong STAB attacks and the potential for Fighting-type coverage if it can't sketch Belly Drum. As I mentioned in the prior paragraph, Mimikyu is not broken without Belly Drum but is with it. There is no detrimental effect on the metagame if Belly Drum itself is removed instead of Mimikyu. Belly Drum is unhealthy regardless of whether Mimikyu is the sole user or if multiple Pokémon abuse it. Almost any Pokémon can set it up with the right amount of support, and a large selection of Pokémon can benefit off of its usage. The three aforementioned checks cannot handle every single Belly Drum user however.

I believe that Belly Drum should be quickbanned before the start of the Sketchmons Open. The metagame is borderline unplayable with the presence of Belly Drum Mimikyu, and this should really be altered before a swarm of tournament players join the metagame only to discover it's literally "Mimikyu vs Scarf Lele" the metagame. A suspect test will only receive the same result, and while I'm not one to believe that this should be the sole reason to quickban anything, I have explained time and time again why the removal of Belly Drum doesn't hurt the metagame in any way but only strengthens its playability. As an avid Sketchmons player, I hope my concerns have been heard and that some action can be taken towards this threat in the immediate future.
Nitpick: you forgot to account for Belly Drum in your Lele calc, so Scarf Psychic does KO (75%+).

There are a fair number of mons which win 1v1, and some can even switch in. Examples include: Bullet Punch MMeta, Mega Pinsir, Gear Grind bulky MScizor, Staraptor (any set other than Adamant Band), Unaware Clef (even SpDef, which is almost mandatory on stall to handle NP Thundy), and LO/CB/[Lum with Steel move] Haxorus. None of these are unviable(Haxorus is a cool stallbreaker, for example), nor are the sets weird or made specifically to counter 'kyu and nothing else. Toxapex (another cool stallmon) can switch in, tank a hit and Haze, and it can do this throughout the match. I've had some success with Pshot which also lets you dodge Dugtrio, which is handy.
252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mimikyu: 268-316 (106.3 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Pinsir-Mega Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mimikyu: 216-255 (85.7 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mimikyu Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Clefable: 148-175 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mimikyu: 222-264 (88 - 104.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mimikyu: 187-221 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 Atk Mimikyu Shadow Claw vs. 248 HP / 60 Def Scizor-Mega: 255-300 (74.3 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252 Atk Mimikyu Wood Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 216-255 (71 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery (strongest option)
252 Atk Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 146-174 (48 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

I do agree that Belly Drum is a problematic move in theory, but I haven't actually seen any other viable BD'ers in the metagame, with the possible exception of Scizor. The threat of Espeed seems to scare them off. Has anyone sketched Belly Drum onto anything else effectively?
 
Hey! I had an idea for an interesting set for this metagame, and wanted some feedback on it.

The main idea behind this set was the move Fire Lash, which does reasonable damage and (and this is what drew me to it) always lowers the foe's defenses. With this in mind, I decided to build a defensive wallbreaker that could slowly tear through bulky walls like Celesteela or Buzzwole. However, I noticed that most Physical Fire-types like Incineroar and Alolan Marowak would rather use a move with more raw power (like V-Create), so I needed a Pokemon that a) needed the longevity, b) had access to reliable recovery, and c) bulky but only decently powerful physically.

Then, it just clicked:


Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fire Lash
- Morning Sun
- Extreme Speed
- Will-O-Wisp

With Intimidate, good bulk, and a decent attack stat, Arcanine looks like the perfect recipient for Fire Lash. The idea of the set is to cripple walls with Fire Lash, and pick off foes with Extreme Speed once their Defense has been significantly lowered. Morning Sun gives you reliable recovery, and Will-O-Wisp prevents it from becoming setup bait (although it can be swapped out for Wild Charge + Electrium Z if you really hate Water-types). I'm sure there's a better rearangement for the EVs, but it looks decent enough to me. I'm sure there's quite a bit of untapped potential here, so let me know what you guys think!
 
Regarding Belly Drum, I will do what Flint did for Water Bubble in BH, which is making a voting thread to decide whether it needs to be suspected or quickbanned. I need TI's approval though.
 
Regarding Belly Drum, I will do what Flint did for Water Bubble in BH, which is making a voting thread to decide whether it needs to be suspected or quickbanned. I need TI's approval though.
Why would you split the discussion further? It's not like there's anything going on in the thread. With that being said, there really shouldn't be quickbans at this stage; at the very least, use this to put some activity back onto the sketchmons ladder with a suspect.
 
Hmm. Qt made a good point. The thread won't be active because Sketchmons is already dead. So here's what I decided.

I'm gonna do what Flint did for Water Bubble, which is a voting whether it needs to be quickbanned or not, but there's no poll, because I'll do it in this thread.

So, vote whether Belly Drum needs a quickban or not. There's no reqs for this one, because it's originally meant to be a poll.

Vote like this,

Belly Drum: Quickban
Belly Drum: Suspect

Also please provide with reasoning. If your reasoning isn't valid, I might consider not counting your vote.

Because this isn't a suspect, I'll decide the one with over 50% number of votes.
 

Fardin

Tournament Banned
Suspect. Surprisingly the only good BD users this gen are maybe Snorlax and mimikyu, where both of em had some pretty common counters. most of the time when i teambuild(not stall) i dont even really consider it a big threat... mostly cause pretty much any ghost and steel type with some minior predictions can kinda deal with snorlax after it BDs and mimikyu is just isnt fast, and frankly strong enough from what ive seen to sweep successfully...it can be great move for end game situations but that can be said for many other things
 

The Official Glyx

Banned deucer.
Belly Drum: Quickban

With Z-Belly Drum being a thing now, as well as Memekyu, I can see why Belly Drum sketching might be a problem. In a meta where literally anything is capable of using any of several potential setup moves, getting rid of Belly Drum will hopefully put us one step closer to not requiring an unaware mon on every team you make.

Going with Quickban, because anyone that actually cares about sketchmons at this point would probably be as willing to grind ladder until they get reqs to vote as well as produce a thoughtful rationale as to why it should or shouldn't be banned.
 

Chloe

is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Dedicated Tournament Hostis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
NUPL Champion
Quickban. Even with the limited amount of users, Belly Drum poses a terrifying threat on the metagame. As I stated with my previous post, the use of Disguise to aid Belly Drum set-up, getting a free OHKO almost every time, is not a competitive thing and doesn't help its healthiness whatsoever. It can pass through almost any check with the use of the appropriate item or move. Can be used on almost any Pokémon given the right amount of support. Belly Drum clearly isn't the only issue with the current Sketchmons metagame, but ridding of it will definitely aid its playability, as I'm sure many others agree.

I've already said my piece eight posts above. I'm pretty sure I've made my stance on the issue quite obvious by now.
 

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
Suspect (though I'd prefer to suspect Mimikyu). Reasoning is pretty much this:
I do agree that Belly Drum is a problematic move in theory, but I haven't actually seen any other viable BD'ers in the metagame, with the possible exception of Scizor. The threat of Espeed/other priority seems to scare them off. Has anyone sketched Belly Drum onto anything else effectively?
If someone can give me examples of other mons which can sketch Belly Drum and not suck, I might change my mind, but I haven't seen any evidence at all that the move is viable on anything else which doesn't get it naturally.

edit: also what qt said
 
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