Metagame SM NU Speculation Thread [Read Post #109!]

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Jisoo

two slow dancers last ones out
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SM NU won't be here for another 4 months or so, but a little early discussion as seen before XY and before ORAS can still be productive until we wait out the time. Do keep this thread relevant to NU only, and avoid discussing things that are very likely not to be in the tier (i.e. most Ultra Beasts) and things that just won't be relevant altogether (Like Air Slash Butterfree and Drill Peck Delibird). As a general rule of thumb, the Pokemon that are in BL2 and that are still in the tier are fair game for discussion.

Z move information:

https://paste.ee/r/mvJ70
http://pastebin.com/d5Hed1cw

Relevant Mechanics changes:

-Refrigerate etc now give a 1.2x boost instead of a 1.3x boost
-Thunder Wave is now 90% accurate and reduces Speed by 1/2 and not 1/4
-Destiny Bond now has a chance to fail if used repeatedly, much like Protect
-Gale Wings now only works if the Pokemon using it is at full health (so we could get Fletchinder or even Talonflame)
-Weak Armor now boosts Speed by +2 in addition to lowering the defense by -1
-Burn damage has been reduced to 1/16 of the user's max HP
-Leech Life now buffed to 80 BP
-Sucker Punch nerfed to 70 BP
-Confusion nerfed from 50% chance to hit to 33%
-Dark-types are now immune to priority moves used by Prankster
-Mega Evolutions gain their stats and use of abilities at the moment they mega evolve, meaning something like Mega Banette will have its Speed at the start of the turn it Mega Evolves and can use Prankster turn 1

Relevant new moves and stat changes for old Pokemon:

Mantine - Roost + 20 HP (probably gone)
Swellow - Hurricane + 25 SpA (probably gone)
Golurk - High Horsepower & Stomping Tantrum
Dodrio - Jump Kick and Swords Dance
Cryogonal - +10 HP and +20 Def
Solrock - +20 HP

Relevant new abilities for old Pokemon:

-Sandstream Gigalith
-Drought Torkoal
-Drizzle Pelipper (probably gone)
-Slush Rush Beartic
-Snow Warning Vanilluxe

What can NU expect next gen?

-Weather might play an important role next gen given the presence of a good Sandstream user in Gigalith, which doubles up as a good Flying and Fire check with Sand special defense boost and the introduction of Slush Rush for hail (hail version of Swift Swim)
-Introduction of Z moves opens up the door for new strategies to execute supporting win conditions and breaking down defensive cores.
-New Alolan forms such as Ninetales, Exeggutor, Muk, Raichu and Sandslash
-New Pokemon such as Silvally, Decidueye, Rimbombee, Lycanroc, Turotnator, and Palossand.
-Power creep pushing some OU/UU/RU Pokemon and even some mega evolutions down to NU.

Feel free to discuss anything else that comes to mind!

You can find moving models of the new mons here: http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/sprites/xyani/
 
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yogi

I did not succumb...
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gonna write a proper post soon but can I just emphasise how broken z-moves are in themselves and in conjunction with baton pass. because they are so busted on paper at least. least splash got a buff lol.
 

cyanize

Mantra Good I Casted So Many Spells U Idiot
is a Community Contributor
mfw ajet + sd bibarel isn't considered a relevant change

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Frustration vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 330-388 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Frustration vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 379-447 (88.9 - 104.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Frustration vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 297-349 (91.9 - 108%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

+4 252+ Atk Bibarel Frustration vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 429-505 (124.3 - 146.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

and then its ajet is stronger than +2 rott's and comparable to +2 torrent?

lol.
 
Long post ahead. Brace yourselves.

Here are some gen VII mons I think may be introduced to the tier:
Toucannon (If Cinccino comes to the tier this gen, it'll likely just go to PU; Outclassed by Swellow and Chatot as a Boomburst user)
Gumshoos (Another likely PU mon; Might have a niche in Stakeout, but it never forces Switches at all, but it could fuck over VoltSwitch teams, though it's bulk isn't very impressive)
Vikavolt (Far too slow for an offensive mon; a lot of weaknesses to important types as well)
Crabominable (Utter trash; Just use Beartic or SD Abomasnow if you want a physical Ice-type. Though if it gets Drain Punch and Knock Off via move tutor in a third version/remake, it could see an improvement in viability)
Oricorio (Psychic one is outclassed by Xatu aside from SLIGHTLY better speed and Special Attack, Ghost one faces a lot of competition with Drifblim, fire one is shittier Charizard; Electric could have a niche, though)
Rimbombee (Doesn't really "outclass" Vivillon because the two have completely separate niches)
Lycanroc (Night version is trash and outclassed by literally every other Rock-type; Day version has the potential to be a nice glass cannon, and a decent sand sweeper)
Mudsdale (Movepool isn't very good, but it could be a good physical tank thanks to Stamina; Assault Vest sounds interesting, but I'm pretty sure it'd be an ass set, so I won't use it)
Araquanid (Could its wallbreaking power be too much? I severely doubt it TBH)
Lurantis (Outclassed in every regard; Contrary is even worse than Servine lol)
Shiinotic (Maybe?)
Comfey (Looks rather outclassed by Mega Audino TBH, though its ability could have uses)
Oranguru (Doesn't stand out when compared other Psychic-types; Could pull a decent CM set, as unlike Musharna it isn't very vulnerable to Hex mons, though it does lack recovery)
Passimian (Outclassed by Primeape, though its bulky aspects could give it a niche)
Pallosand (Reliable recovery is very good, though it being rather slow and weak to a lot of shit could hurt it)
Pyukumuku (Not too sure about the viability of this one to be honest)
Komala (looks decent stats-wise and has decent movepool; but its very vulnerable to Fighting-types, which will likely be everywhere (as in Hariyama, Hitmonchan, Gurdurr, etc.))
Turtonator (Being slow hurts its viability a lot)
Togedamaru (Just use Ferroseed)
Silvally (Its a far more shitty version of Arceus that has a shit movepool; Might seem broken at first glance, but because of said shit movepool (lack of any real "powerful" moves that broke Pokemon in the past like Typhlosion's Eruption) and fairly manageable defenses, I think it'll have a great chance of staying; It plays multiple roles at once, though seemingly doesn't exceed at much of them; Getting Parting Shot is major niche though, since Alolan Persian will likely never see play. SD sets with Normal Sivally are probably the only way it'll be broken IMO)

I don't think that Decidueye, Mimikyu, and Drampa will be NU, though I could be wrong. (Definitely not Mimikyu; It can easily set up a Swords Dance (not sure if hazards affect its ability though) and nuke stuff with Ghost-type Z move. Keep that shit out of the tier thanks (or just ban Z-Moves; Either way works))

As for Alolan forms, all will likely be NU/PU (except I think that Muk, Marowak, and Golem could have potential to go in a slightly higher tier). Exeggutor could be a decent Assault Vest user, but since Ice-types will likely make a resurgence, I severely doubt it'll be very viable in the tier. Everything else, sans Ninetales and Dugtrio, is trash.

As for older Pokemon dropping to this tier, here is what I'll predict will drop come beta release (no Talonflame though; as it could hold a place in RU, likely anyway):
Accelgor
Mega Banette
Clawitzer
Eelektross
Golbat(?)
Scrafty (Weird choice I know, but still, I actually feel like it has a chance to drop to this tier)
Togetic
Typhlosion (will likely be borked and spend eternity in a tier its shit in again, though)

As much as I'd like for Ambipom, Hitmontop, and Cinccino to drop, I doubt they will. (No OU/UU mons will come to the tier. Donphan is something I'd really like, but UU players are dumb and will likely keep using it)

And finally, here are some majorly buffed Pokemon that I think could have a great chance of being good in the metagame:
Gigalith (Though StoutLith could be a problem, but I'm not too sure about that)
Vanniluxe (Ice-types in general are helped massively this gen)
Dodrio (Swords Dance set with Jump Kick, Brave Bird, and Quick Attack could be a rather fun set to utilize, even if it dies rather quickly)
Bibarel (Could become a problem, though we'll see)

On a final note, say goodbye to Mantine. It was NU for 3 generations, but its new buffs prevent that from being the case, likely so anyway. Pelipper likely won't receive enough usage to go (Drizzle will be banned outside of OU and so will Drought). Swellow is an iffy topic, as Exploud is generally better than it, though its higher speed and access to U-Turn could say otherwise. Doubt it'd find room for Hurricane though.
 

twinkay

these bugs love all the sugar in my blood
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Let's talk terrain

Psychic Terrain:
/
/ Oranguru
Grassy Terrain:
/
(+ Alola) /
/
/
/
/
/ Comfey
Misty Terrain:
/
/
/
(Male)
Electric Terrain:
(+ Alola) /
/
/
/ Togedemaru

These are all of the somewhat-viable setters that will maybe / probably be NU. Obviously the list is flawed, either with pokemon that have questionable viability (Ampharos, Meowstic), Pokemon that may not be NU (Sceptile), and Pokemon that would make for frail setters (Manectric, Jumpluff).

With the addition of Terrain Extender, I would imagine Terrain teams would function similarly to weather, although you could be bulkier. Specifically Grassy Terrain, with the addition of healing and Gogoat, could take a more defensive approach. The only Prankster + Terrain is Meowstic-M for Misty, so for other builds you must rely on bulk and / or speed to get set up. For Psychic Terrain, your best setter is probably Oranguru, with Musharna being viable as well. Grassy Terrain has a myriad to choose from, for more balanced builds Vileplume could work well, while for offensive ones Sceptile / Shiftry could work. Meowstic / M-Audino for Misty, Alolan Raichu / Electivire for Electric.

For non-setters for terrain teams, obviously a couple come to mind. Grass Pelt Gogoat can set up easy Bulk Ups versus physical attackers, and a twice-boosted Horn Leech can hit pretty hard (too bad Grassy Terrain + Lefties means it has a hard time breaking through fully evolved defensive mons). Thick Fat Hariyama can stomach Fire and Ice attacks as well as ease the matchup versus Sap Sipper Miltank. Another good partner for Grass could be an Eviolite mon that wants recovery. Rhydon comes to mind, as it can also kinda check Fire types and check Flying types, and can set up SR. Psychic Terrain is good for Psychic types that are kind of priority weak, Jynx comes to mind. Pursuit trappers are good because the team likes Ghosts removed.
Misty Terrain likes Ground types because they beat Fairy resists. Electric Terrain is nice with Ice types because they beat Grass / Dragon resists, HP Grass Electrics can beat most bulky Grounds anyway but you probably want a Steelix answer as well.

The fact that terrain is going to be viable this gen is exciting, this is just speculation but hopefully we can do some cool things with it!

e: Alolan Raichu is a good sweeper for Electric, you can NP / AOA / Specs to hit hard. Also, Sun + GT or Rain + ET could be really threatening, it takes a long time to set up
 
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I'm really iffy on what mons we'll get because people love to use shit mons and new stuff so I'm not going to get my hopes up. Some relevant stuff I suppose



85/75/110/100/75/35
Water Compaction: Increases Defense by 2 stages every time it is hit by a Water-type move

Palossand shares the same dual typing as Golurk but that's all it has in common with it. Hitting primarily from the special side and possessing reliable recovery I think Palo can carve a niche in our tier as a check to some common mons (at least at the time of writing this.) Due to noteworthy moves like Shadow Ball, Earth Power and Giga Drain it can take on the likes of Rhydon, Garbodor and Steelix.

Relevant calcs

252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 91-108 (24.3 - 28.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Rhydon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 60-72 (16 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Garbodor Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 21-25 (5.6 - 6.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 Atk Garbodor Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 76-90 (20.3 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

128+ Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 60-72 (16 - 19.2%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
128+ Atk Steelix Gyro Ball (30 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 25-30 (6.6 - 8%) -- possibly the worst move ever






Trick Room teams look super interesting this gen with possible setters being M-Dino and Musharna, with slow abusers being Vikavolt and Crabominable. Vika w/ E-Belt or LO with TBolt, Bug Buzz, Energy Ball and possible HP Ice seems like an amazing abuser with a sky high 143 SpA and a dismal 43 Spe. Crabominable has a horrible typing defensively speaking but it has good offensive options with great offensive moves, a good ability and a super high Attack stat at 132. It's another mon with base 43 Spe. Possessing Stone Edge, Close Combat, EQ and it's own exclusive move, Ice Hammer which is 100 BP and is further boosted by Iron Fist.
 

shiloh

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Tiering Lead
super bored and still super hyped for sm so ill drop some thoughts on some mons i think we'll be seeing in nu


Incineroar

only starter i think will end up here, but i think it'll do fine once it does. decent dual stabs backed by high attack + intimidate can lead to it being a decent pivot. cb sets w/ u-turn could easily pivot in on things like mesprit / shiftry / xatu or w/e will be in the tier and go for flare blitz / darkest lariat / u-turn / eq or something like that and pivot around well w/ spikes. a more defensive set can be used w/ moves like wisp and taunt, but low spdef probably means this set will be rarer. also has set up in the form of sd, but low base speed means this will probably never be seen w/o support like tr or webs. think this will probably end up around b / b-


Toucannon

generational bird, i think it'll be kind of mediocre but good attack might end up saving it. however its super slow, especially vs other birds like chatot / pidgeot and not to much to set it apart will really hurt it. while skill link seems cool at first, its missing some crucial moves like tail slap which makes it not as great. does have a great move set out side of that though, with bullet seed / rock blast / brave bird / boomburst / u-turn / brick break all being viable options. even niche picks like overheat to hit lix might see some use. overall i see this being rarely seen and probably around c- / d


Gumshoos

similar to the other two mons slow + high attack is what defines this mon in terms of stats. has a really great ability in adaptability, as well as stakeout for a more gimmiky set. decent move pool with options like eq / return / crunch / u-turn / pursuit giving it all it really needs in nu. choice band sets will probably be what defines this mon, but its not that great so it'll probably be c- / d as well


Vikavolt

another slow attacker, but this time with sky high special atk. specs / aoa / agility sets could all see some use, as nu is the one tier where base 40s can run rp / agility and not feel bad (rhydon). has a very bare movepool outside of its stabs, with energy ball and flash cannon being the only things that stick out from it. volt switch also helps specs sets pivot around w/ energy ball probably being the move of choice if gastro / lanturn remain in the tier. overall i think it will have a solid defined niche in the tier and end up around b- / c+


Crabominable

slow attacker with decent dual stabs and a good ability sets this mon apart, but the lack of any priority really stings along with its really low defenses and speed. probably only will see use on tr teams, but will be a really strong force once it is under trick room due to ice hamer / close combat being great at destroying common cores in the tier as well as dealing w/ most ice resists which are special this gen (yama / lanturn). probably will end up being c / c- depending on how viable trick room gets this generation.


Oricorio

these will all probably drop to nu and honestly i think they will be really fun to use. the choice of fire | elec | psychic | ghost is really cool, and they all work well with the secondary stab in flying. they have strong stabs in the 90 bp revelation dance & hurricane and solid boosting moves in agility and calm mind. they also have roost if one of them wants to the the route of defensive cm or 3 atks + roost. i think in terms of viability ghost > fire > elec > psychic will be how it goes, though i could be completely wrong since it really depends on what the common trends in the meta are. i could see at highest one of them reaching a / a- but going as low as c+ / c depending on the state of the tier.


Lycanroc Midnight

strong mono rock attacker and the only stealth rocker nu can get i think, lyrcanroc midnight seems to be a kind of interesting mon. on one hand it has a the cool niche of no guard edge backed by moves like sucker punch & swords dance, but on the other hand it really lacks any coverage outside of edge / brick break / sucker / fire fang. rocks lead sets could be cool, but i think the main sets will be cb / sd since its going to hit really hard off of 115 base atk along with sucker punch to pick off faster threats. think this could end up b / b-.


Lurantis

at first glance this just seems like a shittier servine, and it pretty much is. servine has evio + more utility moves like glare & knock off as well as its a lot faster which gives it a lot of lurantis. lurantis does have some defining qualities though, the ability to run leftovers, higher base spa, and defog all give it a reason to be used over servine. i think the main one that will give it a niche will be defog, as a defog set consisting of leaf storm / defog / synth / hidden power or aromatherapy can see some use. its still going to have a lot of trouble staying viable with base 45 speed and no coverage outside of hidden power (like every mono grass in the tier) but defog will give it a bit of use and probably propel it to c+ / c


Oranguru

this thing has a really fun movepool in terms of set up / coverage, with options like cm / np along with focus blast / shadow ball / psychic, but it lacks recovery outside of rest and like most alola mons ends up with very low speed. np + taunt could be a cool set to break slower teams along with its good natural bulk to tank hits from offense. a cro set could work with mono psychic coverage, but if things like skunk remain in the tier it'll be very hard to justify using. most sets this can run are probably done better by grumpig at the end of the day, as it only has 10 base hp / 15 base def and a normal typing over it, but a loss of 20 base speed and thick fat puts it quite far behind. probably c - / d


Passimian

this just seems like a better primeape and if it does end up nu i think it'll be a lot of fun to play with. defiant + cc + u-turn + eq gives it a lot esp with a solid base 120 atk stat to go with it. not really too much to say other than it'll be a really solid mon if it does end up dropping, but a lack of set up & knock off will put it a bit behind against mons like sawk. probably will be a+ / a if it does drop though.


Palossand

great design along with a cool ability gives palossand a cool niche in the tier, but low speed might be the end of this as well. this will probably be really cool in a core with gigalith since shore up recovers 75% of your health if sand is up. decent dual stabs + good set of resistances lets it tank a lot from common attackers as well. overall pretty cool mon that'll be fun to use on bulkier teams and might end up around b+ / b


Komala

this thing is super cute + has a really cool ability along with good attack, but it lacks a decent movepool and has no defenses to work with. it has a bunch of cool support moves like wish / u-turn / spin that will give it some use as its also immune to all status, but no attacking moves for the most part outside of normal stabs / sucker punch / play rough leaves a lot to waste due to its 115 atk stat. if this does end up nu expect it around b / b-


Togedemaru

another fucked up pikachu clone, this one is pretty bad compared to the rest. while it seems cool at first with steel stab, you then realize that it doesnt have any steel attacking moves to use. it also really has very little coverage outside of its stabs which means wild charge / u-turn are the only physical moves it can really use. an offensive pivot set with wild charge / u-turn / spiky shield / wish is all i can really see this doing, and it does that pretty badly with 65 hp and 86 speed. probably c- / d


Alola Raticate

hustle + dark typing + u-turn is basically what this has to rely on in terms of viability, and it probably wont be enough. terrible stats with nothing going over 80 leaves a lot to be desired, as well as no way to hit steel / rock types well. cb is all i can see this doing, at it probably wont even be able to do that well due to bad typing & lack of resistances. probably c- / d as well


Alola Sandslash

could end up forming a cool core w/ vanilluxe to break down each others checks with slush rush & snow warning, but typing that leaves it weak to fire / fighting / ground gives it a hard time. it does however have a ton of resistances to typings like bug, Dragon, fairy, flying, grass, ice, normal, and psychic along with a really high defense allows it to pivot into most normal types that lack eq / cc. decent attack with good dual stabs and moves like earthquake to back it up helps as well so in the end this could probably be b- / c+ depending on the viability of hail in the tier.


Alola Dugtrio

decent attack + decent speed tier gives dugtrio a fun niche, along with a decent dual stab combination. however it has shit defenses meaning it'll really only see use on ho teams as a cb attacker or a really fast scarfer. it also has access to memento which could be cool when paired with sweepers and overall could end up b- / c+ as well

here are some mons i originally planned on including but thought they will probably end up a bit higher if someone wants to talk about them
Shiinotic
Tsareena
Turtonator
Bruxish

sorry for any mistakes but i kinda did this fast & its 1am so its w/e since i just wanted to get my thoughts out there. im curious to see what you guys think though and hate having to wait 4 more months at least to get even an idea of what the tier will look like.
 

erisia

Innovative new design!
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Komala @ Assault Vest
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin

I might add more stuff later about other Pokemon but I think people have really been sleeping on Komala. ;) It's the only Normal-type Rapid Spin user in the game aside from the dreadful Spinda, and Smeargle, which probably has better things to do. Not only this, but it's also immune to Will-O-Wisp and even Thunder Wave / Toxic thanks to Comatose, and it can hit opposing Ghost-types pretty hard with a Shadow Claw off an Attack stat of 361. This could potentially make Komala one of the best Rapid Spin users in the tier, at least in terms of pulling the move off, as no spinblocker other than Gourgeist can come in safely and the old strategy of burning it just won't work. Assault Vest and max HP EVs give Komala some considerable bulk and switch-in opportunities; I don't think it has the Speed or raw bulk for Wish to be worth it, and it doesn't get many other good supporting moves. Here's some damage calcs that you might find interesting.

252 SpA Rotom Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Komala: 84-99 (25.2 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Haunter Sludge Bomb vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Komala: 122-146 (36.6 - 43.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Komala Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom: 192-226 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The cool thing is Haunter can't even fish for a Sludge Bomb poison, so it has no chance to 2HKO at all. Lack of reliable recovery is a pain but what can you do. You could also run a variant with 176 Spe EVs so you can outspeed Adamant Golurk, which lets you 2HKO it with Shadow Claw on the switch, but then you can't switch into Haunter as easily. I'm almost certain we'll get to use this so imo watch out for it in the future as a cool Rapid Spin user.
 
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Kinda surprised this thing hasnt been discussed by much, so I'll tell something bout it and on my few playtests on it :)

Ninetales-Alola @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak/ Snow Warning (if weather isnt banned, Snow Warning is just better, but Blizzard is not necessarily better)
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Moonblast
- Freeze-Dry/Blizzard
- Psyshock/Filler



The Alolan Ninetales really damage output isnt really changed on its form, but like the regular Ninetales, the NP boost makes it hit considerably hard, and LO to increase its SpA further. With its new typing (though still rocks weak), is just greater offensively with this meta, as Ice resists aren't really that epidemic in this tier, plus Psyshock and Moonblast are fairly good moves in its arsenal that hit those that resists ice, and NP isnt that hard to set-up with its decent bulk and nice number of resists plus it threatens a lot of mons and can NP on the right predict.Moonblast is also an awesome STAB, hitting those neutral targets with respectable damage. Blizzard is also an awesome option on the Freeze Dry slot considering hail would be allowed, as an NP boosted Blizzard hits way harder than Freeze Dry, although it doesnt give as much utility as FD. Its speed tier also is better than before, outspeeding more mons/threats like Scyther,Mismag,Pyroar, and eclipsing the speed tie with Zard (and those other base 100s or w/e that threatens ninetales, too bad no speed tie on tauros and cheops D:). Hazards and offensive pressure also play a good role for Ninetales to sweep.

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alolan Ninetales Blizzard vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 304-359 (86.3 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alolan Ninetales Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 307-367 (67.6 - 80.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alolan Ninetales Psyshock vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 229-270 (74.5 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alolan Ninetales Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 282-333 (87 - 102.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Alolan Ninetales Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyroar: 216-255 (69 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after hail damage

TL;DR
Alolan Ninetales is a very promising NU-mon-to-be on Spikestacking or even a simple offensive team with the pack of punch it offers. Although some sort of proper support is needed, it's all in all a solid mon!

PS: Thoughts on Aurora Veil as a last ditch support on Alolan Ninetales? I think it's pretty cool as Ninetales breaks stuff and can still support another incoming sweep :).
 

Disjunction

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I haven't had any time to play, but I'm going to post a few sets I've been eager to try out.

Toucannon @ Life Orb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Brave Bird
- Overheat
- Bullet Seed
- Rock Blast

Mixed Toucannon has the awesome coverage and power behind it to beat down most Normal- and Flying-type resists. Skill Link with Bullet Seed and Rock Blast makes for a dangerous combination of coverage moves. Overheat does this:
Code:
4 SpA Life Orb Toucannon Overheat vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 231-273 (65.6 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Toucannon Overheat vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 221-263 (78.6 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The better set might actually be mixed, specially biased LOrb Toucannon with Boomburst / Overheat / Bullet Seed / Drill Peck considering its base 75 Special Attack, but I wouldn't be the one that's able to tell you which is which. I'm trying out both later when I get the chance.


Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Will-O-Wisp

I would be genuinely surprised if this thing actually dropped, but if it did I'm super excited to use it. In tiers like OU it can abuse Lightningrod and its unique typing to shut down a ton of Electric-types. However, in NU, I'd say its best ability is Rock Head because most of our Electrics (mainly Rotom and Lanturn) have a type advantage over it, and powerful Fire-type moves are hard as hell to deal with as is. Rock Head Flare Blitz makes this thing a destructive wallbreaker, and its coverage between Bonemerang/Earthquake and Shadow Bone crushes just about every other relevant Fire resist we have. I just slapped wisp into the last slot in case something like physically defensive Regirock starts popping up in response to this monster, but I suppose Swords Dance or some other coverage could be neat too.


Golem-Alola @ Choice Band
Ability: Galvanize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Explosion

I've been hearing people really undervalue this mon as a wallbreaker as well. What it does is self-explanatory, but let me drop some calcs to show exactly how good it is.
Code:
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 330-388 (93.2 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Shiinotic: 140-165 (43.2 - 50.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Return vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Audino-Mega: 213-252 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Return vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Regirock: 165-195 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Return vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 232-274 (69.4 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Galvanize Golem-Alola Return vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Eviolite Sliggoo: 144-170 (42.3 - 50%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Obviously Double-Edge has more nuking power, so I figured I'd show you how it's not necessary half the time. This thing is a living nuclear missile with the single strongest Explosion in the game. The main thing it really struggles with are bulky Ground-types that can switch in a few times on its Earthquakes: Sandslash, Torterra, and Claydol come to mind. Otherwise, Alolan Golem has the tools to crush most Electric-type immunities between Stone Edge and Earthquake.

Basically, we'll be getting so many wallbreakers (again) that defensive teams will be a lot more difficult to run (again) and the metagame will shift towards a fast-paced, offensive slugfest (again.) Just waiting for whoever the Gen 7 Teddeh will be to innovate the next generation of fat balance that we'll continue to see variations of for the next 3 years.
 

Hilomilo

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Tsareena seems like it could be really promising here. Decent stab in trop kick with good coverage options in HJK, Play Rough, RAPID SPIN and Return alongside decent bulk and utility in synthesis/aromatherapy/uturn/dual screens could turn the thing into a versatile threat. It'll likely end up here if Virizion stays RU, but we'll see. And yeah, no way Alolan Marowak's gonna find its way down here.
 
Another post from me, and some things that I forgot/have changed my mind on since my first post on this:

Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Moonblast
- Protect
- Aromatherapy

This thing has a solid chance of going into NU this gen, and if it does, it'll actually be quite good. Essentially, this is basically Mega Audino, but it can take on Fighting-types better, can use Leftovers, is immune to the rare Taunt and Encore, and has Moonblast instead of Dazzling Gleam (better offensive prescience as well, albeit at the cost of a worse offensive movepool). It brings another Wish user to the tier, and considering its advantages over M-Audino, could be something to look into.

Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
Ability: Mummy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Fighting

I think competition with Palossand will push this thing into NU, though I'm not exactly sure on that (after all, Vaporeon stayed in UU for most of last gen despite being outclassed by Alomomola). Either way, this seems like a nice attacker thanks to its bulk. If the coffin and sand castle do in fact coincide in NU, I feel this is the best way to use the former without being outclassed (though this does get Toxic Spikes and WoW, so......).

Persian-Alola @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Parting Shot
- Foul Play
- Taunt
- Toxic

I borrowed this from the OU Z-Moves thread. In my first post I said this thing was going to be garbage, but it has one key thing, Parting Shot (especially since Silvally does look less likely to be in NU). Its fast, and has a surprising amount of bulk with Fur Coat (of course, the EVs could be changed), and when Parting Shot combined with the power of the Z-Ring, it gets a Healing Wish-like effect without killing itself. Pretty neat, and could be effective on certain teams, though it does have competition with Liepard as a Dark-type pivot (you do better against Dark-types at the very least though, so there's that).
 
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Disjunction

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ok I'm doing a quick follow-up post with a team I quickly built tonight for fun

Oricorio-Sensu @ Life Orb
Ability: Dancer
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Revelation Dance
- Hurricane
- Baton Pass

Komala @ Assault Vest
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Rapid Spin
- Shadow Claw
- Earthquake

Liepard @ Choice Band
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- U-turn
- Trick

Shiinotic @ Leftovers
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Moonblast
- Strength Sap
- Spore

Steelix @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Toxic

Floatzel @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Oricorio-Sensu is, in my opinion, the best form of the four formes of Oricorio because of its superior neutral coverage between its two STAB moves. With little options for coverage outside of Hidden Power, you need to make the most out of the STABs you got. I went with CM + BP because Shiinotic + Floatzel could benefit a fair bit from the pass, but it's more so Oricorio can escape Pursuits from Skunk and have a boosting move. I paired it with AV Komala as a spinner and good god this thing is amazing. You really underrate how amazing it is to be immune to status and it's not like this thing's positives end there. It's a soft check to every Special Attacker in the tier, consistently gets off Spins because it's strong and pressures spin blockers easily, and it has a nice speed tier that lets it outpace stuff like Alolan Muk, Vileplume, and whatever other relevant base 50's are floating around. From there I figured Band Liepard would be cool since I wasn't really aware of how much of a god Komala was and wanted something for Ghosts, but this can probably be replaced now for something with more speed or offensive presence. Shiinotic + Steelix was a core I threw off the top of my head and Shiinotic itself is pretty damn awesome. It's a lot different from Plume in the way it just sucks the opponent dry with Strength Sap until they're forced to switch. Spore is obviously a god send too. Kinda just tossed Floatzel on there as a better cleaner and Fire check, but this and Liepard are definitely replaceable.

And for those of you who got through my post and are scratching your heads as to why I made a SM NU team when nothing is going to come out for months; we're doing some speculative battles with a written up list of mons we could have when the tier finally forms. Here's the list of what we're considering could be in the tier and what we're playing with: http://pastebin.com/qeAKidR2. We hold tours in the NU Room on PS every now and again, and you'll see people asking for battles so feel free to stop by!

and there just might be something planned that could make that list pretty valuable :)
 

nv

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[06:18] %nv: Taunt, Toxic, Roost, Revelation Dance sounds decent
[06:18] %nv: Revelation Dance hits Xatu (who would otherwise bounce the Taunt or Toxic back)
[06:18] %nv: And then ofc Taunt + Toxic does what it does
[06:20] %nv: 96+ Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Oricorio Pom-pom: 63-74 (17.8 - 20.9%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
[06:21] @erisia: yeah that sounds decent nv
[06:21] @erisia: you should post about it

Oricorio-Pom-Pom @ Leftovers
Ability: Dancer
EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 240 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Revelation Dance
- Roost
- Taunt / Substitute
- Toxic

While I do agree with Disjunction that Sensu is the best Oricorio forme, Pom-Pom has a lot going for it based on its typing. Electric/Flying is only weak to Ice and Rock while sporting neat resistances to Flying, Fighting, Ground, and Bug, making it a potentially fun little check to things like Scyther. Despite the 75/70/70 bulk, it is able to take advantage of these resistances due to a base 93 Speed and 98 Special Attack. The set aims to break stall and put a lot of slower Pokemon on a timer and the EVs are specifically tailored to outpace Rotom as well as anything slower. Revelation Dance may leave Oricorio walled by Steelix, but it helps it take care of Xatu who will just as easily bounce back the Taunt or Toxic thanks to Magic Bounce.

Calc:
0 SpA Oricorio Pom-Pom Revelation Dance vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Xatu: 254-302 (76.2 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Substitute can help to cripple faster Pokemon that may switch in or try to come in and revenge it such as Archeops and Jynx while a bulkier spread can help it take advantage of its resists a lot easier.

Overall, I feel like Sensu and Pom-Pom are going to be the "best" Oricorio formes as the former can be an offensive beast while the latter has a pretty neat defensive typing and the right tools to be used as a potent stallbreaker.
 

Pokedots

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I'm avoiding spoilers like the plague so I didn't look through these posts but y'all Raticate can OHKO Tauros w/ Sucker Punch, this 'mon is cray

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Raticate Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 246-289 (84.5 - 99.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Raticate Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tauros: 223-264 (76.6 - 90.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Raticate Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 171-202 (48.3 - 57%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Hustle Raticate Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 202-238 (49.2 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Raticate Return vs. 252 HP / 208+ Def Mega Audino: 189-223 (46 - 54.3%) -- 55.9% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Raticate Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 135-159 (38.4 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Raticate Crunch vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 127-151 (36 - 42.8%) -- 94.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think it'll be a really fun wallbreaker honestly, since it gets to spam Crunch and it OHKOes everything faster with Sucker Punch. Probably won't be great or anything but I can hope!
 

Disjunction

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Jynx (F) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lovely Kiss
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock
- Nasty Plot / Focus Blast

Here's a cool one I came up with earlier today. Z-Lovely Kiss gives you a +1 Speed boost on top of the regular sleeping effect, giving Jynx even more potential to become a deadly sweeper. It doesn't fix Jynx's weakness to priority, but it does supplement its ability of being pressured by everything naturally faster than it. Trying to play the game of "Is it Normalium Z or Focus Sash?" will add an extra dynamic to Jynx's already very aggressive playstyle.
 
Crabominable @ Choice Band
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch/Ice Hammer
- Close Combat

This is a neat set I've been using and I figured I would share it after seeing some succession with it. This set might even see some improvements later on.
By the way, I know Ice Hammer is better, I just like using ice punch for accuracy lol (I'm a noob like that).
From what I realized from using this, is that, this mon has potential to be a great wall breaker with its obnoxious attack. To ensure that it's a better wallbreaker, I installed EVs into speed, up to base 60 neutral, this is just so I outspeed slower mons like hariyama, vileplume, etc. The rest is for bulk to take some hits if need be since fighting typing is pretty solid typing against stuff like knock off and crabable can still put in work without choice band.
252+ Atk Choice Band Crabominable Ice Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Weezing: 190-225 (56.8 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Crabominable Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 356-420 (101.1 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Crabominable Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 244+ Def Gastrodon: 301-355 (70.6 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Xatu Psychic vs. 120 HP / 0 SpD Crabominable: 258-306 (70.6 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
In all honesty though, what makes Crabominable so crazy is how it deals with common phys def pokemon in the tier due to it's dual STAB comination. Being able to donk on vileplume, xatu, quagsire, gastrodon, steelix, gourgeist, etc. It's very hard to pivot or wall on this monster and I can actually see it being great on balanced team builds or hyper offensive teams that have fast teammates. It also pairs up with tauros pretty well.
 

Disjunction

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hey I'm gonna dump some more z-move god sets


Magmortar @ Grassium Z
Ability: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Solar Beam

This one's cool. Lures out Rhydon and Lanturn thinkin it's just AV
252+ SpA Magmortar Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 748-884 (181.1 - 214%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Magmortar Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 132 SpD Assault Vest Lanturn: 316-372 (80.8 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mag's strong enough on its own where it doesn't need a boosting item either.
e: oh ya focus blast + bloom doom beats out regirock with rocks
252+ SpA Magmortar Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 214-252 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock: 136-160 (37.3 - 43.9%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock


Claydol @ Ghostium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball
- Rapid Spin

Here's some good spinblocking prevention. Claydol's still kinda weak and stallbreaker missy has one switch in on it, but rotom gets dunked and it's the most common spinblocker so cool
252+ SpA Claydol Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom: 316-374 (103.9 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Claydol Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mismagius: 246-290 (75.9 - 89.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Claydol Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Golurk: 304-358 (79.7 - 93.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


Dodrio @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Jump Kick
- Knock Off
- Return

Tangelo was talking about this one while I was makin this post so here's this.
+2 252 Atk Dodrio All-Out Pummeling (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 108 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 362-428 (87.4 - 103.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Dodrio All-Out Pummeling (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 378-446 (106.7 - 125.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

There's really not a whole lot you can run attacking z moves on without feeling like you lost something really valuable in return. You're mostly limited to using these for luring common stuff and we don't even know what's gonna be common until the meta comes out and shit settles. I imagine we won't see serious z-move usage until 2-3 months after NU beta comes out, but maybe these few can stand on their own when we get to serious playtesting.
 
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yogi

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doesnt hp grass and eq 2hko rhydon and lanturn respectively? dodrio one seems cool tho
 

Disjunction

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doesnt hp grass and eq 2hko rhydon and lanturn respectively? dodrio one seems cool tho
hp grass doesn't kill 2 rhydons

also both options don't nuke the respective mons from full and prevent them from being soft checks in a pinch
 
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Bibarel @ Life Orb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Jet / Quick Attack
- Waterfall
- Return

I don't see a lot of people talking about it, but this mon is so good now if it gets the chance to set up. An insane wallbreaker at +2:
+4 252 Atk Life Orb Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vileplume: 390-460 (110.1 - 129.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+4 252 Atk Life Orb Bibarel Return vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Weezing: 333-394 (99.7 - 117.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+4 252 Atk Life Orb Bibarel Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom: 238-281 (98.7 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Aqua Jet vs QA is if you'd rather hit Lycanroc / Fast Ghosts vs Jynx / Floatzel.

Ninetales-Alola @ Light Clay
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Aurora Veil
- Encore
- Blizzard
- Moonblast

This set is something I've been trying out in conjunction with the Bibarel set above. Aurora Veil is basically dual screens in one move, which makes Ninetales one of the best setters in the tier.

Vikavolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Agility
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball

Vikavolt is super strong and its coverage is a pain to deal with for so many teams. Agility puts it at 370 speed, meaning it's fast enough to sweep. It has a high base defense and resists Mach Punch so it is also not weak vs priority. Setting up isn't that difficult either as Vikavolt forces out half the tier, and even without a boost it can still break just fine.
 

Palossand @ Life Orb / Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD || 4 HP / 252 Spa / 252 Spe || 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD
Modest Nature / Timid Nature || Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Giga Drain / Sludge Bomb / Energy Ball / Any good filler actually
- Shadow Ball
- Rock Polish / Shore Up

Palossand is just an excellent mon on both ends of the battlefield, as it can both be an effective offensive or a defensive mon.

On an offensive note, Palossand dents the opponents' walls with its strong STABs and coverage, boosted with the Power of LO, making it a great Bulky or a Speedy Attacker, with RP.

252 SpA Life Orb Palosand Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 12 SpD Gastrodon: 411-489 (96.4 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Palosand Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Shiinotic: 426-504 (131.4 - 155.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Palosand Earth Power vs. 244 HP / 128 SpD Steelix: 382-452 (108.5 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Palosand Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Bronzor: 151-179 (47.4 - 56.2%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO


On the defensive hand, Palossand poses a threat on physical attackers due to its formidable physical bulk, plus Shore Up gives Palossand a good form of recovery to easily shrug off physical attacks and makes Palossand a solid physical wall, to the normal types and a good number of other notable physical attackers.

252 Atk Life Orb Tauros Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 81-95 (21.6 - 25.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 181-214 (48.3 - 57.2%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 129-153 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- 52.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Kangaskhan Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand: 141-166 (37.7 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Sand Force Alolan Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palosand in Sand: 117-138 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery


Palossand is a very interesting mon due to it's movepool and bulk, and can do its role on both sets very well, and I believe there's much more to this mon. Btw i hope they fix Palossand's name in the gen 7 calc :<.
 
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Poliwrath @ Normalium Z
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Splash
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Brick Break
What are people's opinion on this being on rain? With splash it can now get an insta boost without relying on belly drum. I'm thinking it could be the next ludicolo for rain.
Edit: Just found out about belly drum z-move and I take this back lol
 
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