Resource SM OU Viability Ranking Thread

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Aliss

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Agreeing on Excadrill to B+. It's amazing on HO, and HO is pretty much everywhere right now (and honestly, sand rush and choice scarf arent even that bad of sets either).

Can someone explain to me why Omastar is even ranked though?
 

Indigo Plateau

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Okay, going to try and throw out a nomination of my own:


Mega Sableye should drop to B+

Since there was a ranking update very recently, let's start by analyzing the ranks that Sableye shares with other pokemon, and why it shouldn't reside in A-, but rather in B+.

In A-, we have plenty of pokemon who give valuable team support and will likely not be dead weight in most matchups. Chansey is still a fantastic wall being able to cover a ton of metagame threats such as Greninja, Magearna, Latios, Diancie, Kingdra, Volc, and so on. Chansey also fits on offense builds, and although it's a bit of a momentum killer, these offense builds appreciate having a mon like Chansey to fall back on due to the power creep present in SM. Both Lopunny and Medicham are incredible offensive pokemon - Medicham is extremely hard to switch into, especially with things like Mew falling off a bit, and can singlehandedly dent teams and provide sweeping opportunities to other mons on the team. Lopunny has picked itself up from the dirt and, like Gary described, is effective against a lot of builds due to the combination of its high speed and unresisted stabs. A lot of mons that use to annoy it, like Thapex and Mew, aren't surefire answers anymore, and it can run PuP + Encore against fatter teams. Pelipper is invaluable to rain teams, which like Vertex proved during OLT, are still a menace with builds like HO more popular than before. Even defensive teams usually can't deal with the combination of Swampert + Kingdra and Koko + Hawlucha in the back, and often a defensive backbone of Tangrowth + Toxapex or something of the sort is needed to handle these teams. Scizor and Venusaur have cemented themselves as sturdy, defensive pokemon who can beat teams outright on their own and provide a ton of utility in the form of SD + U-Turn, Leech Seed/Sleep Powder, and so on.

Although B+ could use a little bit of cleaning up imo, Mega Sableye's role is better fitted here than in A-. It does not provide the same utility that all these other mons in A- provide. In B+, we have mons that can still be a nuisance given the right matchup: Mega Tyranitar has fallen off quite a bit and is not as good as regular TTar, but given the right scenario, it can still find the right time to setup due to its above average natural bulk and good coverage. Hoopa-U is a potent wallbreaker that is not quite as good as other wallbreakers residing in higher ranks such as Kyurem-B, BandTar, Medicham, and so on - the same applies to other pokemon here in Zard-Y and Heracross. Mega Latias provides indefinite team support as an answer to a huge amount of the meta with sets like CM SP, 3 atks + Roost, Reflect Type, and Defog, but it struggles to tank hits from a lot of pokemon due to its typing, such as TT Koko, Lele, Kyurem-B (it often can't do much back), and Scizor if not running HP Fire. I could keep going, but I think the point has been made by now. B+ is better fitted for Sableye, who wants to provide the utility of mons in A-, but falls short.

Now what makes it fall short? The fact that it can't check as many things as it could in ORAS due to the amount of threats present that can take advantage of it. Let's start off with some basic examples: Last gen, Excadrill was usually used as a sand sweeper, and Sableye could usually afford to tank a hit and WoW back. In SM, Excadrill has stapled itself on the face of almost every HO builds because it can simply click Rocks + Toxic against everything, including Sableye. Lando-T, bar rare sets like DD, was usually Defensive/Scarf (I don't remember if DD gained more traction towards the end of ORAS, but I don't think so) last gen, and now it can easily take advantage of Sableye if running Sub SD, and Sableye can't switch in vs offensive sets without getting annihilated. There's several other mons that beat Sableye which are self-explanatory: Lele, which is a nuisance to any fat build that is usually paired with Sableye; Mawile, which holds the same feat as Lele; Magearna, which is arguably one of (if not the) most versatile pokemon in the tier which can take advantage of the nothing that Sableye can do to it; Clefable, which once again can easily get up rocks vs Sableye and potentially start CM'ing for free; Mega Diancie, which Sableye can't touch (again); Zard-X and Heatran, both which have seen more usage ever since Duggy got the boot; things like BandTar, Zyg, and Hoopa-U can all beat Sableye with a bit of chip damage; Tapu Koko, which is able to blow it back with an appropriately timed Z Move; Tapu Bulu, which can take advantage of Sableye with Sub; and so on.

Simply put, the number of pokemon that threaten Mega Sableye this gen are much higher, and its bulk often makes it fall short of wanting to be the wall that it wants to be.

Lastly, stall took a sizable hit with the ban of Duggy, since it can't handle most of the stallbreakers present in the tier now. Mega Sableye really shouldn't be used outside of stall teams or fatter teams like ABR's (I believe) Sableye+Tox+Celesteela etc team. This hit obviously makes stall a less powerful choice than before in the current metagame, and if the viability of the primary playstyle that Mega Sableye is seen on took a hit, so should Sableye. Not to mention that it's not even the most valuable member here - Chansey deals with all special attackers, Clef provides a stop against setup sweepers, Skarm is the physical wall, and Toxapex is there to set up TSpikes for passive damage and because Thapex. Mega Sableye's role of being a soft hazard bouncer isn't good when it can't even switch in to most hazard setters (bar Greninja in most scenarios, surprisingly). Even before Duggy got the boot, Ciele stall was much better than SPL stall, and this build didn't even star Sableye, proving that stall teams can forgo it if necessary. It really just fails to hold its own weight and depends on the other stall members too much. SM has been unkind to Sableye, and recent meta shifts like Duggy banning and more pokemon rising (Heatran, Zard-X, Lele, etc) that can threaten Sableye means that it should drop.

A- --> B+
 
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Agreeing on Excadrill to B+. It's amazing on HO, and HO is pretty much everywhere right now (and honestly, sand rush and choice scarf arent even that bad of sets either).

Can someone explain to me why Omastar is even ranked though?
Omastar is ranked becuase it can break rain "checks" like ferrothorn, chansey, and tangrowth without relying on prediction. It does this by shell smash and rain boosted hydro vortex. It's really niche, but that's why its c-.
 

Gary

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S ---> A+: Disagree

Eh I can totally see where people are coming from with this, but I still think Magearna is a bit above the rest of A+. It's not sweeping teams as much as it was during WCOP, but it's still a major annoyance because it's kinda like Volc where it almost feels impossible to prep for defensively without running a Chansey or your own AV Magearna. I think Fightinium Shift Gear 3 attacks has kinda fallen off a bit with SpD Pex being super common and shit like Clef, Mew, and Mega Sciz picking up in popularity. Double Dance BoltBeam is prepped for more as well with Heatran being everywhere and CB T-tar. Personally I think Farium Z sets are still really fucking good, and people are just kinda sleeping on it. DD Farium completely raped during earlier OLT playoffs iirc (maybe it was end of WCOP i cant be fucked to remember) and people in general just aren't very prepped for it, cause a Z Fleur is stupidly strong and can just nuke shit into another dimension. Personally I'm quite fond of Shift Gear 3 attacks Fleur, because the extra coverage is super nice so you don't have to run Fleur/Focus as your sweeping moves and can still tear into Celesteela/Pex. AV also feels a lot like fat Lando with how insanely splashable it is and how when I'm not using an offensive set, I always find a way to fit it onto most of my teams. All in all, more prepared for, but still just stupidly good at what it does to a point where I think it's still above the rest.

B+ ---> A-: Agree

I think with Duggy gone Zone has just become a lot more desirable. Not only did Duggy actually pose a threat to it because it could prevent it from trapping its teammates, but I think its Steel trapping abilities are just super nice atm. AV is still decent ig, but I'm really digging the Sub Z move sets, because it can actually do something other than hit like a wet paper bag and not lose 1v1 to Steela after it Leeches you on the switch. Sub makes it extremely irritating because it can Sub up vs Ferro to dodge the Leech, and then after Ferro dies something else is forced to break the Sub which can allow it to potentially get another kill or deal a fuck ton of damage with its Steel move. Electrium Z can 100% kill Steela without any Leech shenanigans; +1 SpD Steela still loses to T-Bolt into Gigavolt with Seeds. Electrium Z in general is also just super nice, because you can actually successfully trap and kill Mega Mawile, which otherwise can live a hit and kill you with Knock/Fang into Sucker. It also does 39.3 - 46.4% to AV Gear, which can be very useful for weakening it down for Ash Gren or something. Steelium Z is also nice too because it can do similar damage to Mega Mawile and Gear while nuking shit like Zygarde, Lando-T, and Latios on the switch. It's really nice on Mega Diancie and Mega Pinsir teams atm for obvious reasons. Just finding it more of a nicer option.

B- ---> C+

In all honesty I think this mon is complete garbage. As a Scarfer it faces immense competition from literally anything lmao. People like to say it's better than Nihilego because it can check Volcarona better but like outside of that, it's just kinda like Scarf Chomper where it baits in so much shit and is complete deadweight vs balance most of the time. Personally I think Scarf Nihilego is better because it can at least punish fatter teams with T-Spikes which are broken and keep up the pressure, whereas Terrakion is just like go ahead and bring in your Lando-T/Clef and setup SR on me. SD Stealth Rock is niche as fuck and not enough to keep it in B- either. Either drop Terrak or rise Nihilego but I'd rather do the former because Nihilego isn't THAT good.
 
I have a nomination that will probably be rather controversial.
Charizard Y: B+ to B.
Charizard Y has really fell from grace in the banning of arena trap. Charizard Y just has really bad matchups overall in the most used play styles. In stall it is complete dead weight because of chansey and toxapex. In balance toxapex has a lot of usage so it's not doing much there either. (Hyper) offense has all the tools to offensively pressure charizard through stealth rocks and faster pokemon. Aurora veil offense, which charizard was once one of the best ways to beat it, has really fell from its former glory. It's overall a pretty terrible balance breaker compared to mons like kyurem b and Tapu lele. I just can't find a good reason to use it anymore.
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
I'm gonna echo Indigo's nom of Sableye-Mega down. It's just really fallen off these days. The stall breakers are just far too much for it to handle, and considering how stall has many different ways of hazard control, it's not mandatory anymore. It hasn't been for months, and when the best stall team in the metagame that had it falls off it should too. It's definitely not better than Skarmory in this metagame.

I also can definitely get behind Terrakion down. Rock/fighting is nice and all but when Stone Edge is unreliable and CC forces you out way too often you'll find that those STABs are not as spammable as you think. SD SR is outdone by Garchomp, which is bulkier and has a better typing to boot.

As for Tangrowth to A-, I'm gonna echo this too. I think Vertex had made this a long time back, but it's really not what it used to be. Toxic Spikes are rising more and more, and Spikes are as well. It's useless vs any bulky team, really. Kyurem-Black rising is also pretty bad for it. Balance is just not what it used to be with the Pex/Celes/Tang or Pex/Celes/Venu core kind of falling off rn. TBH this should have dropped a while back.

Also, now that Birdspam has died down, Dragonite should see its way back to C+, because outside of that team, it's really not very good. It's slow even when boosted, and as a Z crystal DD mon I'd much rather use Gyarados, which has a better typing, or even Salamance, which appreciates the fall of scarf mons faster than it. It's definitely not better than salamence in this metagame, and it should drop to reflect that.
 
Magearna to A+: disagree.

Magearna is still a step above the rest of the A+ mons. This thing is a massive threat and will wreck your team if you dont have answers. Its got a multitude of good sets, and fits onto many teams very easily. The assualt vest set eats pretty much any hit, and shift gear sets can turn the game 180° in just one turn, and sweep your entire team with its broken ability.
 
I want to echo the nom of Staraptor to C- or higher.
Over the last couple days, I have seen a bunch of usage for this mon, and it makes sense as to why. First of all, flying+normal stab is amazing, especially with close combat to help against steels. Also, with mons like heatran and zapdos that are extremely splashable to help against steels and mons like magnezone and tapu koko to also help against skarm and celesteela, it really makes it easy for staraptor to sweep. Also, with ground types being so easy to fit on teams which can help defensively and offensively to help staraptor to clean or break their team, staraptor is really good. Band is really good for breaking and brave bird and double edge are nukes, while u turn provides amazing momentum. Also, scarf is an amazing cleaner, which can really help end games and revenge kill.


Magearna to A+ --> Disagree
While I do believe magearna has fallen off a bit, it definitely is a step above everything in A+ except maybe tran. Also, it has so many sets that it is so unpredictable that it can still destroy teams, and it is a menace to hyper offense. It can also fit on every single team style, and I feel like fairium z and focus blast will start picking up in popularity again.


Magnezone to A- --> Agree
I think this is really self explanatory with so many things being weak to steels and magnezone kind of just clearing the field up for them. Not really much I need to say.
 
Magearna to A+ --> Agree
Offensive sets are an echo of their former self when sg was gaining popularity. It has 4mss so bad that trying to surprise your scouting opponent with a stab nuke (zfleur) is your best way to go. The best set rn is av imo. Its really splashable and covers a lot but I dont believe it should stay S rank altough I would understand an argument that Magearna should stay S because of the defensive set.
 
Magearna to A+ --> Agree
Offensive sets are an echo of their former self when sg was gaining popularity. It has 4mss so bad that trying to surprise your scouting opponent with a stab nuke (zfleur) is your best way to go. The best set rn is av imo. Its really splashable and covers a lot but I dont believe it should stay S rank altough I would understand an argument that Magearna should stay S because of the defensive set.
Why does it have 4MSS??? BoltBeam is all it really needs to clean late game, leaving 4th slot up to you, Z focus Blast, CM, Flash Cannon, Fleur Cannon... all viable options, just cuz the CM set became prevalent and is checked by some pokemons doesnt mean other ofensive sets desapeared, i would compare magearna to MMetagross in a sense it can choose his checks
 
Why does it have 4MSS??? BoltBeam is all it really needs to clean late game, leaving 4th slot up to you, Z focus Blast, CM, Flash Cannon, Fleur Cannon... all viable options,
1. Calm mind missing means you get countered by every passive mon not weak to BoltBeam speak Mega-Scizor, Mew, AV Magearna etc.
2. Fighting coverage missing means you get countered by a bunch of steels like Ferro, Heatran etc.
3. Flash Cannon / Z-Flash Cannon missing leaves u countered by Mega-Venusaur with Leech Seed or EQ (the best sets) and unaware Clef.
4. Shadow Ball missing makes Alowak/Jirachi/Victini counter u (less relevant but worth a mention especially since I believe scarf Victini to be a set)
5. Z-Thunderbolt missing leaves you way weaker to Toxapex and Celesteela.
6. Iron Head for dealing with Chansey is an unmove due to how you already lack slots for moves.
7. Fleur Cannon / Z-Fleur Cannon missing gives you way less burst damage and altough this doesnt really beat anything specific that other move combinations wouldnt its the best compromise imo.

While neutral coverage BoltBeam+ lefties is appealing it lacks the raw power to kill threats due to lack of stab and damage boosting item.

just cuz the CM set became prevalent and is checked by some pokemons doesnt mean other ofensive sets desapeared, i would compare magearna to MMetagross in a sense it can choose his checks
Metagross had way less of a 4mss simply because it wasnt required to run Grass Knot anymore whatsoever since Slowbro/Hippo were unmons at the time. You only had to pick between Hammer Arm and EQ as well as 2 out of Ice/Thunder Punch/Zen Heabutt. With SG Magearna you NEED to run 1-2 boosting moves naturally giving you less flexibility in coverage which is why people went for the best neutral one, BoltBeam.

Also, Albacore you are out of your mind Steela and Tang are probably the front-runners of their respective rank n_n And hawlucha is a highroll mon that can be insane if the matchup is correct but simply lacks consistency.
 
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Well, wont discuss 4MSS anylonger then, but just to point out, alowak is an unmon in a metagame were Ttar and Landorus are straight top tier treats and stall is gone. unaware clef is not what it used to be rn that stall has fallen apart. Mew is never a counter to CM magearna / any set that lacks Z fight. Scizor is never a counter, gl using it as your only magearna check. Pex and Steela dont beat you even without Z Elec as steela is running more fis def atm and pex just cant counter atack and will get all his recovers stalled / will lose the mindgame and straight bye pex. Heatran and Ferro might be good checks, but they gotta worry about Z focus. AV magearna gotta be real healthy in order to beat any set that is not called fairium Z, and with spikes being proeminent and magearna having to check so much normally... yh u get were i am going, its not that hard to wear it down. The only solid awnsers u mentioned are Leech M venu, Jirachi and chansey ( Victini is getting worn down by hazards if scarf, if not checks someowhat of well)

Guess what? I used only two sets to make this post, BoltBeam CM and Z focus, gl covering rest of all those sets.

I feel like the defensive counters to magearna are real limited to a few selected pokemons, but as metagame tends to get more ofensive CM magearna has a hard time pulling it off, altho i think that Z sets will rise again in popularity, the thing is u cant beat every one of them at once
 
alowak is an unmon in a metagame were Ttar and Landorus are straight top tier treats and stall is gone
Alowak is most definitely not an unmon. Obviously the ever-present lando isn't good for it but this is true of almost every physical attacker in the game. Alowak can usually (ignoring uncommon coverage/sets) beat the following mons from the S and A ranks 1v1 (the # next to each is their rank in weighted usage across the meta):

#2 - Tapu Koko
#3 - Magearna
#5 - Ferrothorn
#9 - Celesteela
#10 - Toxapex
#13 - Mew
#16 - Tangrowth
#20 - Zapdos
#23 - Clefable
#25 - Mega Scizor
#28 - Kartana
#40 - Mega Venusaur
#43 - Mega Medicham

_____________
#33 - Tyranitar - 5.6% usage. Certainly a threat and prevalent enough to cause issues, but not enough to make an unmon, even with landot's influence on alowak.


It's still fantastic on trick room, and like I said months ago when someone was advocating for a harsh alowak drop, I don't see 3 immunities 7 resistances (notably absorbing volt-turn) and an unboosted 568 attack every being outright 'bad.' Add on some room for tech like rocks or wisp or sd, a lack of ghost switchins in the tier, and this mon is looking pretty good.

anyway no opinion on mage dropping just I think alolan marowak is still very much viable and deserves to be counted as a mage answer.
 
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Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
Also, Albacore you are out of your mind Steela and Tang are probably the front-runners of their respective rank n_n And hawlucha is a highroll mon that can be insane if the matchup is correct but simply lacks consistency.
Yeah, nopelol. That is absolutely not true. Steela isn't the worst Mon in A+ but absolutely not thd best lol. Ash greninja shuts down games once it's transformed, heatran absolutely ruins stall, ferro is incredibly splash able and has far more utility, Koko is similar but is incredibly versatile. Celeste ela is definitely not better than these Mons.
Tangrowth is definitely not the frontrunner of A. If you've been reading earlier pages that goes to Volcarona, who just shuts down games with a tad bit of support. The other Mons either ruin balance, offense or provide invaluable utility/walling ability. None of them are ever dead weight in a matchup. Tang is dead weight Vs any bulky team, doesn't provide that much utility and is easily outdone in its role by venusaur-mega, which doesn't rely on av, isn't ruined by toxic spikes and has a better typing in this meta, along with more utility because it's not forced to run AV. Since imo Venu isn't worthy of A rank and it's blatantly better than tang, why should tang stay a rank?
And yeah, lucha is mu based but so is the rest of B+. It's not as mu based as you make it out to be though. The only mu where I see it as dead weight is stall because of unaware clef.
Stop theorymonning. Your post shows you don't have a solid grasp on the metagame. Don't make these sweeping statements if you don't know the meta and can't back them up.
 
mage is still one of the most threatening mons. dd, av, sg 3atk are all more or less S rank sets in my opinion, along with its other options like cm + pain split and sg iron head (which are still viable but are definetly not S or maybe even A+) i believe that it is still sodily over all the other A+ rank pokemon, ash gren possibly being the exception, with how versitile it can be on mostly any team archtype. I do not feel thats its the best mon in the tier anymore, but s rank signifies its effect on the meta.
 
Alowak is most definitely not an unmon. Obviously the ever-present lando isn't good for it but this is true of almost every physical attacker in the game. Alowak can usually (ignoring uncommon coverage/sets) beat the following mons from the S and A ranks 1v1 (the # next to each is their rank in weighted usage across the meta):

#2 - Tapu Koko
#3 - Magearna
#5 - Ferrothorn
#9 - Celesteela
#10 - Toxapex
#13 - Mew
#16 - Tangrowth
#20 - Zapdos
#23 - Clefable
#25 - Mega Scizor
#28 - Kartana
#40 - Mega Venusaur
#43 - Mega Medicham

_____________
#33 - Tyranitar - 5.6% usage. Certainly a threat and prevalent enough to cause issues, but not enough to make an unmon, even with landot's influence on alowak.


It's still fantastic on trick room, and like I said months ago when someone was advocating for a harsh alowak drop, I don't see 3 immunities 7 resistances (notably absorbing volt-turn) and an unboosted 568 attack every being outright 'bad.' Add on some room for tech like rocks or wisp or sd, a lack of ghost switchins in the tier, and this mon is looking pretty good.

anyway no opinion on mage dropping just I think alolan marowak is still very much viable and deserves to be counted as a mage answer.
I am not gonna take this further on after this post, but alolawak with lightining rod is just not its best set, but assuming u are running it, it does not swap into some of the mons you mentioned safely, as it can either get crippled by koff or just beaten 1v1 by coverege options. And being weal to all hazards in a metagame were spikes / T spiks stack is super common sucks in general
 
I honestly feel like Ash-Greninja should be S rank right now. From the perspective of someone using it, there's usually 1 thing that needs to die (against balance / offense teams) and then it kills everything with one of its STABs. Even if it's fighting a team that it's not capable of realistically breaking, it can set up spikes really effectively by forcing switches into one of the things that can wall it. Balance teams are still just decimated by this thing, and there have been some shifts that make it even more effective. Tapu Bulu has fallen off pretty harshly, it's nowhere near as effective and isn't being used too much anymore. Tangrowth is less effective than it was, and Latios is all over the place as a glue on balance teams that checks a couple of key threats with defog support (or a solid breaker with calm mind / Z-Thunder) . I think that right now Greninja is more impactful on the metagame than Magearna. I wouldn't put it on Landorus-T's level though, to be fair. I think there is a bit of a gap in between A+ mons like Celesteela and Zygarde and stuff like Ash-Greninja, Heatran, and Magearna. Landorus-T, in my opinion is above all of these. To account for this something like a S and S+ tier could work - or maybe A+ just has to get sorted out. Some of those mons feel much better than others, and I think it's wrong to put them all on the same level.

EDIT: Forget the S subranks. Sorry

Heatran is pretty ridiculous now - it basically has no counters (that get away scot free), and in a lot of games where (insert fast sweeper here) can't kill everything yet, a very effective game plan is to go into Heatran and fire off attacks, which usually weakens something to the point that (insert fast sweeper here) can sweep. I wouldn't say it's S tier, but it's certainly become more frightening than some of A+ and I think the case could be made to move it there. It has a lot of effective sets too.
 
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I feel bad for Gary, this is going to be like the millionth time he’s had to say that there’ll be no S subranks.

S+ is reserved for literally only Pdon. Lando is great, but it’s not “Almost every competitive team in the tier should have me on its team” great.

S- just needlessly complicates matters.
 
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I honestly feel like Ash-Greninja should be S rank right now. From the perspective of someone using it, there's usually 1 thing that needs to die (against balance / offense teams) and then it kills everything with one of its STABs. Even if it's fighting a team that it's not capable of realistically breaking, it can set up spikes really effectively by forcing switches into one of the things that can wall it. Balance teams are still just decimated by this thing, and there have been some shifts that make it even more effective. Tapu Bulu has fallen off pretty harshly, it's nowhere near as effective and isn't being used too much anymore. Tangrowth is less effective than it was, and Latios is all over the place as a glue on balance teams that checks a couple of key threats with defog support (or a solid breaker with calm mind / Z-Thunder) . I think that right now Greninja is more impactful on the metagame than Magearna. I wouldn't put it on Landorus-T's level though, to be fair. I think there is a bit of a gap in between A+ mons like Celesteela and Zygarde and stuff like Ash-Greninja, Heatran, and Magearna. Landorus-T, in my opinion is above all of these. To account for this something like a S and S+ tier could work - or maybe A+ just has to get sorted out. Some of those mons feel much better than others, and I think it's wrong to put them all on the same level.

EDIT: Forget the S subranks. Sorry

Heatran is pretty ridiculous now - it basically has no counters (that get away scot free), and in a lot of games where (insert fast sweeper here) can't kill everything yet, a very effective game plan is to go into Heatran and fire off attacks, which usually weakens something to the point that (insert fast sweeper here) can sweep. I wouldn't say it's S tier, but it's certainly become more frightening than some of A+ and I think the case could be made to move it there. It has a lot of effective sets too.
These noms have already been made recently and did not happen, and i dont see anything that changed for those two mons from there to now to make em better
 
Ash-ninja is good but it shouldnt be S rank because magearna and lando are simply better, its one dimensional and mons like mantine, toxapex, chansey or AV magearna are high in usage, also most Latios are scarf so they normaly revenge kill Ash-ninja, magearna is the most powerfull threath in the meta, unlike greninja it can bypass any counter. We all know how few things wall cm boltbeam but also how fightium 3 attacks beat the shit that cm boltbeam doesn't like heatran and ferro, those 2 sets are the most common sets but the point i want to make is how nothing trully counters magearna even chansey for example:

Modest Cm fightium Z 3 attacks

You trade the sweep vs offense to always beat stall, chansey doesn't beat this.

+1 252+ SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 274-324 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ SpA Magearna All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 432-510 (61.4 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Flash cannon deals with unaware clefable, mega venu etc , thunderbolt beats toxapex and skarm, Focus blast always 2kos quagsire even if you run timid.
Magearna already outspeeds all stall mons so here i like to run bulky mag here but i run enough speed to beat skarm.

Timid Cm fightium sg coverage

The middle point between destroying chansey and still destroying offense, the last slot depends on what you need to beat, ice + fighting have godly coverage only walled by mons like toxapex while Flash cannon + Focus blast beat standar venu tran cores.
Also there are other sets but the point remains that magearna chooses its counters even shit like marowak or gastrodon get blown away by Z fleur cannon.

On the defensive side AV mag is one of the few pivots to check Lele and greninja and sets like shuca invalidate the ground weakness so it can set up on lando or just kill lando with ice beam.

Lando is lando so i don't want to talk too much about it but its more meta than Ash-ninja so point is Ash-ninja should remain in A+ rank.
 
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Well, it will be my first own nomination, so I hope it's realistic in the current metagame and you guys agree with it.

: B- -> B

So, I supose everyone here knows its power and how facing it is at least disgusting to a great portion of the balance teams/cores. Things like Celesteela, Ferrothorn, Tapu Koko (one of its best partners btw), Toxapex, Clefable, Zapdos, even the uprising Magnezone give this monster a free switch/nuke, and all of the mons I have listed are at least B+ rank. One of the issues it had in the past months was Dugtrio, who could trap it after a kill. Now, without Arena Trap in the meta, this thing can demolishes everything that doesn't resist its moves almost freely in the right conditions.

The other reason is the same as the newest update, using the case of Victini: I think it fits better in a higger subrank. It's way too far from the same level of Megas like Manectric or Slowbro or mons like Azumarill, wich I haven't seen for a while in the ladder.

So, summing up: It still can destroy fat cores like before, and it's even better without the mole, besides its superiority over other Megas in the same rank of it. Thank you for reading :)
 
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Ash-ninja is good but it shouldnt be S rank because magearna and lando are simply better, its one dimensional and mons like mantine, toxapex, chansey or AV magearna are high in usage, also most Latios are scarf so they normaly revenge kill Ash-ninja, magearna is the most powerfull threath in the meta, unlike greninja it can bypass any counter. We all know how few things wall cm boltbeam but also how fightium 3 attacks beat the shit that cm boltbeam doesn't like heatran and ferro, those 2 sets are the most common sets but the point i want to make is how nothing trully counters magearna even chansey for example:

Modest Cm fightium Z 3 attacks

You trade the sweep vs offense to always beat stall, chansey doesn't beat this.

+1 252+ SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 274-324 (38.9 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ SpA Magearna All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 432-510 (61.4 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Flash cannon deals with unaware clefable, mega venu etc , thunderbolt beats toxapex and skarm, Focus blast always 2kos quagsire even if you run timid.
Magearna already outspeeds all stall mons so here i like to run bulky mag here but i run enough speed to beat skarm.

Timid Cm fightium sg coverage

The middle point between destroying chansey and still destroying offense, the last slot depends on what you need to beat, ice + fighting have godly coverage only walled by mons like toxapex while Flash cannon + Focus blast beat standar venu tran cores.
Also there are other sets but the point remains that magearna chooses its counters even shit like marowak or gastrodon get blown away by Z fleur cannon.

On the defensive side AV mag is one of the few pivots to check Lele and greninja and sets like shuca invalidate the ground weakness so it can set up on lando or just kill lando with ice beam.

Lando is lando so i don't want to talk too much about it but its more meta than Ash-ninja so point is Ash-ninja should remain in A+ rank.
I dont like most of yhe sets here, buy this gives us an exemple of how magearna can adapt to meta changes and etc... and i personally think its gonna do it again
 
Thoughts on a mega heracross drop? The arena trap ban really hurt it, as strong psychic types, (Hoopa u and Tapu lele in particular) usage is increasing. The ban of arena trap caused stall to be much more rare on the ladder, which was one of heracrosses best niches. Choice band zygarde has fallen out of favor, meaning the only relevant defensive utility heracross has I think is knock off. The meta is leaning more to offense, which heracross has a really hard time doing anything against. On balance, clefable gets a lot of usage, becuase without critical hax, clefable avoids the 2hko from all of its moves. Finally, Mega heracross has very little usage on both the ladder and in tournaments. IMO, heracross looks much more at home with b mons like Mamoswine and Jirachi.
 
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Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
I'd definitely support a Hera-Mega drop. Stall has taken a bit and faster psychics are rising in the meta. In addition, fairies are rising again - Koko actually uses d gleam now, Diancie-Mega is the heat these days and lele is god. Defensive-wise, it's just not good anymore. The meta is settling and the dominant and niche megas are being established, and imo Hera is falling into that niche spot. Def should drop.

In addition, I think it's time that Pelipper rose to A, and maybe the swift swimmers to A-. Rain has already shown itself to be absolutely fantastic, and it is only getting better. Ash-Gren is getting better and it forms a godly core with Pelipper. Stall falling means chansey and zapdos are falling, which is great for Pelipper. Someone - I believe Vertex - used it in olt and proved how potent it is. Definitely worth a rise.

I'm out of time but will likely make a nom of alowak down once I get time.
 
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