Metagame SM Ubers General Metagame Discussion

It isn't going to be unbanned. This is because Swagger is still purely luck based and is an underhanded strategy that doesn't build what Ubers or any Smogon-Tier promotes, which is a balanced and skillful meta.

Swagger is likely to remained banned in all tiers. It seems that you've only made a total of 2 posts. Those posts were both made in the last 25 minutes. Check out some of the resources found here on Smogon, and on Pokemon Showdown. They will help you understand why we have things in place such as a Swagger Clause.
Ignoring the fact that this post is extremely condescending, you seem to be unaware that Swagger has been unbanned in OU (you make no reference to this fact in your posts). The unban in OU (due to the nerfs it received this gen I assume) is the reason I made my post in the first place, and I've checked out the resources found here already but the question has not been answered.
 

Aaronboyer

Something Worth Fighting For
is a Contributor to Smogon
I don't think you are understanding what he is saying. Currently, Swagger is not banned in the OU beta metagame so he is asking whether or not it will be banned in the future.
I believe so, just because it's still on a luck based premise; especially because SwagPlay despite both the Twave accuracy drop and the Confusion hit rate.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
I have seen conflicting information about whether or not Confusion has actually been nerfed, and from what I can tell nobody here has bothered to fully test it.
 
I have seen conflicting information about whether or not Confusion has actually been nerfed, and from what I can tell nobody here has bothered to fully test it.
Confirmed that it was nerfed from Bulbapedia. - "The confused condition causes a Pokémon to hurt itself in its confusion 33% of the time (50% prior to Generation VII). The damage is done as if the Pokémon attacked itself with a 40-power typeless physical attack (without the possibility of a critical hit)."
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
I believe so, just because it's still on a luck based premise; especially because SwagPlay despite both the Twave accuracy drop and the Confusion hit rate.
It's still a luck-based premise but that really doesn't matter

Dark Void is a luck-based premise, that rewards RNG instead of player skill most of the time, so should it be banned?
 
Something is only uncompetitive if it rewards RNG more than player skill a majority of the time and can play a decisive role in the outcome of the match, which isn't the case with a 50% sleep move (plus darkrai is weak af before a boost). Banning Dark Void would necessitate the banning of Hypnosis, Spore, and Sleep Powder, since they all accomplish the same goal, which almost certainly isn't happening. Mega Gengar was uncompetitive since it had Shadow Tag, so you couldn't switch if put to sleep and thus Sleep Clause could in practice be circumvented.
 
Last edited:

Duck Chris

replay watcher
is a Pre-Contributor
Confirmed that it was nerfed from Bulbapedia. - "The confused condition causes a Pokémon to hurt itself in its confusion 33% of the time (50% prior to Generation VII). The damage is done as if the Pokémon attacked itself with a 40-power typeless physical attack (without the possibility of a critical hit)."
In the mechanics research thread this has not been confirmed by testing. bulbapedia isn't the best source
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
In the mechanics research thread this has not been confirmed by testing. bulbapedia isn't the best source
I actually thought that too, and when I looked it up all I found was someone just doing a test for about 2 hours:

also, serebii says it's still 50%. weird.
 

Soul Fly

IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
is a Contributor Alumnus
holy shit rest-talk def zygarde-complete walls like almost the entire physical meta. no joke. Can even 1v1 nuclear shit like Ghostium-Z Arceus given the right conditions. Pair it up with an ogre check and you are in business.
 
Is Reshiram any better this gen, or is it too early to tell? It's one of my favorite Pokemon but it has been pretty trash in Ubers in ORAS.

Also who seems to be the better of the two between Solgaleo and Lunala?
 
Is Reshiram any better this gen, or is it too early to tell? It's one of my favorite Pokemon but it has been pretty trash in Ubers in ORAS.

Also who seems to be the better of the two between Solgaleo and Lunala?
I can't speak from personal experience, but I've seen a Reshiram set posted here that utilized Grassium-Z + Solar Beam to smack Primal Kyogre and Waterceus pretty hard. I mean, it's still extremely niche and it provides absolutely no defensive utility whatsoever, but at least Z moves give it something.

I've had more success with Lunala overall, personally.
 
I don't think I've seen any defensive teams recently, mostly just standard heavy offense (Deo-S / Normceus / M-Mence / RP Don / Xern / Filler) and Psychic-Spam Offense (Lele / Deo-A / P-Don / Fillers).

I get that the metagame is still early, and it will take time for balanced or even stall teams to come into being, but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on them lol.
 
I don't think I've seen any defensive teams recently, mostly just standard heavy offense (Deo-S / Normceus / M-Mence / RP Don / Xern / Filler) and Psychic-Spam Offense (Lele / Deo-A / P-Don / Fillers).

I get that the metagame is still early, and it will take time for balanced or even stall teams to come into being, but I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on them lol.
I've had ladder success using a stall team featuring 3 Ground types, and even managed a peak of #1. I think this style of play is very good for a purely ladder based environment, as it's very consistent and its easy to get good matchups against the majority of ladder players. However, this style is probably inconsistent at higher levels of play, due to its inherent matchup based playstyle and its general passivity.




(sprites suck for Gen 7 mons sorry ]: )



Inperium (Zygarde-Complete) @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Toxic

Sobrius (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Rest

Felicitias (Blissey) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snatch
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled

Tenebrae (Sableye) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Fake Out

Facticius (Magearna) @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heart Swap
- Thunder Wave
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split

Alpha Terra (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 70 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Judgment
- Recover
- Defog


I started the team around Zygarde-Complete, due to its absolutely broken bulk when in its Complete form. Its one of the closest things Primal Groudon has to a counter, and also beats non Ice Beam Ekiller and Banded Ho-Oh in particular, which is good for a stall team. Its immense physical bulk lets it beat almost every physical attacker in the tier even boosted, while Dragon Tail's ability to phase and Toxic's wearing down of checks such as GeoXern and Supportceus is quite effective.

Primal Groudon is here as the team's rock setter and Primal Kyogre answer mostly. It can also answer most Xerneas in particular, and is a second fat groundtype blanket check to most pokemon in the tier. Max Spedef Rest is to consistently counter non-CM Primal Kyogre in particular.

Blissey is here to be another Primal Kyogre answer (with Toxic to timer down threats such as CM Kyogre, Xerneas and CM Arceus Forms), secondary Xerneas counter, and as a Ghost immunity which is quite useful in beating pokemon such as SD Ghostceus and certain Lunala sets. Snatch is interesting to steal clerical moves and recover from other stallmons and Arceus Forms, atlhough its less necessary with Heart Swap Magearna present. I've considered Precipice Blades Groudon and Stealth Rock Blissey which would probably work to beat Kyogre better and reduce passivity slightly, but haven't really tested yet. Heal Bell's very good on a team with two Rest users, and Shed Shell escapes Mega Gengar which has traditionally troubled stall.

Mega Sableye is my hazard control and Magic Bounce for pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory which are passive, but difficult to effectively stop from laying hazards without Magic Bounce. Fake Out stalls Toxic damage which has won me a lot of matches and also gives it guaranteed first turn mega, which is quite important. It's defensively also very important in consistently countering AoA Deoxys-Attack, Mewtwo, as well as a secondary Ekiller answer.

Magearna's here to beat Xerneas, especially Rest variants which basically solo stall teams otherwise. Its also my answer to Yveltal (Heat Wave was fairly uncommon), Darkceus, and also able to answer Darkrai, unless Hypnosis is exceptionally lucky. Heart Swap steals boosts and gives back Fleur Cannon drops, Fleur Cannon is strong stab that actually damages ubers pokemon, Pain Split is the closest thing Magearna has to recovery, while Twave is just hax that can sometimes be useful. Flash Cannon could probably work in its slot to be consistent stab: I really didnt use Twave much apart from losing games where I wanted parahax.

Groundceus is mostly only here with a fast set to creep and answer Mega Lucario which is exceptionally common on the ladder. Its also able to be a secondary answer to Primal Groudon, who can be annoying if it breaks through Zygarde. Ice Beam is to beat opposing Zygarde, being able to 2hko the base form and do 40% to the complete form, forcing constant rests. It's also able to beat Mega Salamence and hit Rayquaza. Defog's just here because I needed removal and could not fit it on the rest of the team.

Overall the team's quite consistent on the ubers ladder, although it does suffer from excessive passivity against good players, as well as matchup issues including but not limited to DD Rayquaza, SD Groundceus, mixed RP HP Ice Primal Groudon, Specs Lunala, as well as no effective way of beating other stall teams.
 
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Funbot28

Banned deucer.
I've had ladder success using a stall team featuring 3 Ground types, and even managed a peak of #1. I think this style of play is very good for a purely ladder based environment, as it's very consistent and its easy to get good matchups against the majority of ladder players. However, this style is probably inconsistent at higher levels of play, due to its inherent matchup based playstyle and its general passivity.




(sprites suck for Gen 7 mons sorry ]: )



Inperium (Zygarde-Complete) @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Toxic

Sobrius (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Rest

Felicitias (Blissey) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snatch
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled

Tenebrae (Sableye) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Fake Out

Facticius (Magearna) @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heart Swap
- Thunder Wave
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split

Alpha Terra (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 70 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Judgment
- Recover
- Defog


I started the team around Zygarde-Complete, due to its absolutely broken bulk when in its Complete form. Its one of the closest things Primal Groudon has to a counter, and also beats non Ice Beam Ekiller and Banded Ho-Oh in particular, which is good for a stall team. Its immense physical bulk lets it beat almost every physical attacker in the tier even boosted, while Dragon Tail's ability to phase and Toxic's wearing down of checks such as GeoXern and Supportceus is quite effective.

Primal Groudon is here as the team's rock setter and Primal Kyogre answer mostly. It can also answer most Xerneas in particular, and is a second fat groundtype blanket check to most pokemon in the tier. Max Spedef Rest is to consistently counter non-CM Primal Kyogre in particular.

Blissey is here to be another Primal Kyogre answer (with Toxic to timer down threats such as CM Kyogre, Xerneas and CM Arceus Forms), secondary Xerneas counter, and as a Ghost immunity which is quite useful in beating pokemon such as SD Ghostceus and certain Lunala sets. Snatch is interesting to steal clerical moves and recover from other stallmons and Arceus Forms, atlhough its less necessary with Heart Swap Magearna present. I've considered Precipice Blades Groudon and Stealth Rock Blissey which would probably work to beat Kyogre better and reduce passivity slightly, but haven't really tested yet. Heal Bell's very good on a team with two Rest users, and Shed Shell escapes Mega Gengar which has traditionally troubled stall.

Mega Sableye is my hazard control and Magic Bounce for pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory which are passive, but difficult to effectively stop from laying hazards without Magic Bounce. Fake Out stalls Toxic damage which has won me a lot of matches and also gives it guaranteed first turn mega, which is quite important. It's defensively also very important in consistently countering AoA Deoxys-Attack, Mewtwo, as well as a secondary Ekiller answer.

Magearna's here to beat Xerneas, especially Rest variants which basically solo stall teams otherwise. Its also my answer to Yveltal (Heat Wave was fairly uncommon), Darkceus, and also able to answer Darkrai, unless Hypnosis is exceptionally lucky. Heart Swap steals boosts and gives back Fleur Cannon drops, Fleur Cannon is strong stab that actually damages ubers pokemon, Pain Split is the closest thing Magearna has to recovery, while Twave is just hax that can sometimes be useful. Flash Cannon could probably work in its slot to be consistent stab: I really didnt use Twave much apart from losing games where I wanted parahax.

Groundceus is mostly only here with a fast set to creep and answer Mega Lucario which is exceptionally common on the ladder. Its also able to be a secondary answer to Primal Groudon, who can be annoying if it breaks through Zygarde. Ice Beam is to beat opposing Zygarde, being able to 2hko the base form and do 40% to the complete form, forcing constant rests. It's also able to beat Mega Salamence and hit Rayquaza. Defog's just here because I needed removal and could not fit it on the rest of the team.

Overall the team's quite consistent on the ubers ladder, although it does suffer from excessive passivity against good players, as well as matchup issues including but not limited to DD Rayquaza, SD Groundceus, mixed RP HP Ice Primal Groudon, Specs Lunala, as well as no effective way of beating other stall teams.
The team looks really solid, but I can see an issue when dealing with Mixed Life Orb Yveltal and Sub Calm Mind Lunala. This is why I recommend replacing Arceus-Ground with Arceus-Dark to give the team a better Ghost and Dark answer. You still have Zygarde-C for both
Primal Groudon and Mega Lucario so the change should not change up the threat list that much. You can run the exact same set as well (but maybe replacing Ice Beam with Toxic might be better).
 
The team looks really solid, but I can see an issue when dealing with Mixed Life Orb Yveltal and Sub Calm Mind Lunala. This is why I recommend replacing Arceus-Ground with Arceus-Dark to give the team a better Ghost and Dark answer. You still have Zygarde-C for both
Primal Groudon and Mega Lucario so the change should not change up the threat list that much. You can run the exact same set as well (but maybe replacing Ice Beam with Toxic might be better).
I actually had Arceus-Dark in my original iteration of the team, and you're right that it handles Lunala and Heat Wave Yveltal better, but the problem with that is Mega Lucario was an auto win against my team, which I couldn't allow as it's exceptionally common on the Ubers ladder. Although it does look like Zygarde-Complete is an answer to Mega Lucario, a competent player is able to keep Zygarde in non-Complete form and then destroy it with +2 Close Combat before it ever gets into Complete form.

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 358-422 (85.2 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Combined with the lack of a secondary Primal Groudon answer, Groudon (on every single ubers team) can simply get 5%-10% of chip damage onto Zygarde and then Lucario is able to clean the entire team at +2.

SubCM Lunala actually loses to Mega Sableye if its not running Moonblast, or if Fleur Cannon drops have been Heart Swapped to it, and loses to Magearna's Heart Swap (bypasses Sub) in general (probably a bit better with Flash Cannon's consistent PP). Specs is the bigger issue, as it can 2hko everything on the team with correct predictions, forcing the burden of outplay onto me. That set was pretty uncommon though.

Heat Wave Yveltal is also really strong against the team, but its manageable by switching around and getting Magearna in safely (anything but Heat Wave) or landing Toxic and stalling it out.
 
idk if its been addressed yet but i feel like xerneas got better/should get better?
ho-oh and primal groudon have been nerfed somewhat by the hard counter that is zygarde construct form (+ ho-oh burn nerf), as well as more zygardes= more fairy bait
it did get another check in solgaleo, as well as mega -luc getting better but idk
also z-geomancy is broken???????
thoughts?
 
I've had ladder success using a stall team featuring 3 Ground types, and even managed a peak of #1. I think this style of play is very good for a purely ladder based environment, as it's very consistent and its easy to get good matchups against the majority of ladder players. However, this style is probably inconsistent at higher levels of play, due to its inherent matchup based playstyle and its general passivity.




(sprites suck for Gen 7 mons sorry ]: )



Inperium (Zygarde-Complete) @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Tail
- Rest
- Toxic

Sobrius (Groudon-Primal) @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Rest

Felicitias (Blissey) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Snatch
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
- Soft-Boiled

Tenebrae (Sableye) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 232 HP / 24 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Foul Play
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Fake Out

Facticius (Magearna) @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heart Swap
- Thunder Wave
- Fleur Cannon
- Pain Split

Alpha Terra (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 70 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Judgment
- Recover
- Defog


I started the team around Zygarde-Complete, due to its absolutely broken bulk when in its Complete form. Its one of the closest things Primal Groudon has to a counter, and also beats non Ice Beam Ekiller and Banded Ho-Oh in particular, which is good for a stall team. Its immense physical bulk lets it beat almost every physical attacker in the tier even boosted, while Dragon Tail's ability to phase and Toxic's wearing down of checks such as GeoXern and Supportceus is quite effective.

Primal Groudon is here as the team's rock setter and Primal Kyogre answer mostly. It can also answer most Xerneas in particular, and is a second fat groundtype blanket check to most pokemon in the tier. Max Spedef Rest is to consistently counter non-CM Primal Kyogre in particular.

Blissey is here to be another Primal Kyogre answer (with Toxic to timer down threats such as CM Kyogre, Xerneas and CM Arceus Forms), secondary Xerneas counter, and as a Ghost immunity which is quite useful in beating pokemon such as SD Ghostceus and certain Lunala sets. Snatch is interesting to steal clerical moves and recover from other stallmons and Arceus Forms, atlhough its less necessary with Heart Swap Magearna present. I've considered Precipice Blades Groudon and Stealth Rock Blissey which would probably work to beat Kyogre better and reduce passivity slightly, but haven't really tested yet. Heal Bell's very good on a team with two Rest users, and Shed Shell escapes Mega Gengar which has traditionally troubled stall.

Mega Sableye is my hazard control and Magic Bounce for pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory which are passive, but difficult to effectively stop from laying hazards without Magic Bounce. Fake Out stalls Toxic damage which has won me a lot of matches and also gives it guaranteed first turn mega, which is quite important. It's defensively also very important in consistently countering AoA Deoxys-Attack, Mewtwo, as well as a secondary Ekiller answer.

Magearna's here to beat Xerneas, especially Rest variants which basically solo stall teams otherwise. Its also my answer to Yveltal (Heat Wave was fairly uncommon), Darkceus, and also able to answer Darkrai, unless Hypnosis is exceptionally lucky. Heart Swap steals boosts and gives back Fleur Cannon drops, Fleur Cannon is strong stab that actually damages ubers pokemon, Pain Split is the closest thing Magearna has to recovery, while Twave is just hax that can sometimes be useful. Flash Cannon could probably work in its slot to be consistent stab: I really didnt use Twave much apart from losing games where I wanted parahax.

Groundceus is mostly only here with a fast set to creep and answer Mega Lucario which is exceptionally common on the ladder. Its also able to be a secondary answer to Primal Groudon, who can be annoying if it breaks through Zygarde. Ice Beam is to beat opposing Zygarde, being able to 2hko the base form and do 40% to the complete form, forcing constant rests. It's also able to beat Mega Salamence and hit Rayquaza. Defog's just here because I needed removal and could not fit it on the rest of the team.

Overall the team's quite consistent on the ubers ladder, although it does suffer from excessive passivity against good players, as well as matchup issues including but not limited to DD Rayquaza, SD Groundceus, mixed RP HP Ice Primal Groudon, Specs Lunala, as well as no effective way of beating other stall teams.
Why is this here instead of RMT lol
 
The team looks really solid, but I can see an issue when dealing with Mixed Life Orb Yveltal and Sub Calm Mind Lunala. This is why I recommend replacing Arceus-Ground with Arceus-Dark to give the team a better Ghost and Dark answer. You still have Zygarde-C for both
Primal Groudon and Mega Lucario so the change should not change up the threat list that much. You can run the exact same set as well (but maybe replacing Ice Beam with Toxic might be better).
The stall team I came up with (with the help of the Showdown Lobby) used Darkceus and Skarmory over Groundceus and Magearna. The other 4 pokemon (and sets) were the exact same.

In retrospect, I could also use Klefki over Skarm.

I don't like to play it though, because stall vs stall, or even stall vs. balance, just comes down to a bunch of switching and defogging and hazard-laying.

idk if its been addressed yet but i feel like xerneas got better/should get better?
ho-oh and primal groudon have been nerfed somewhat by the hard counter that is zygarde construct form (+ ho-oh burn nerf), as well as more zygardes= more fairy bait
it did get another check in solgaleo, as well as mega -luc getting better but idk
also z-geomancy is broken???????
thoughts?
I think Z-Geo is cray if you can reliably clear out Groudon with your other team members (otherwise you could get phazed while charging Z-Geo). Fortunately, P-Ogre is stronger this gen without Lati twins to bother it, so it can apply more pressure to P-Don.
 
Last edited:

FINITOOOO

lolgroudon
I actually had Arceus-Dark in my original iteration of the team, and you're right that it handles Lunala and Heat Wave Yveltal better, but the problem with that is Mega Lucario was an auto win against my team, which I couldn't allow as it's exceptionally common on the Ubers ladder. Although it does look like Zygarde-Complete is an answer to Mega Lucario, a competent player is able to keep Zygarde in non-Complete form and then destroy it with +2 Close Combat before it ever gets into Complete form.

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucario-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde: 358-422 (85.2 - 100.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Combined with the lack of a secondary Primal Groudon answer, Groudon (on every single ubers team) can simply get 5%-10% of chip damage onto Zygarde and then Lucario is able to clean the entire team at +2.

SubCM Lunala actually loses to Mega Sableye if its not running Moonblast, or if Fleur Cannon drops have been Heart Swapped to it, and loses to Magearna's Heart Swap (bypasses Sub) in general (probably a bit better with Flash Cannon's consistent PP). Specs is the bigger issue, as it can 2hko everything on the team with correct predictions, forcing the burden of outplay onto me. That set was pretty uncommon though.

Heat Wave Yveltal is also really strong against the team, but its manageable by switching around and getting Magearna in safely (anything but Heat Wave) or landing Toxic and stalling it out.
This is a cool team man! I don't think you should knock Arceus Dark though. Who says you need the refresh set? You have a cleric in Blissey (You said snatch wasn't necessary since you have Magearna, right?). So you could easily run a Calm Mind two attacks + recover darkceus. Judgment + Focus/Fire Blast would work here, and it would ease your Lucario worry immensely.
 

NabboCheTesta

Gniubbo come sempre
Why does Zygarde use Thousand Arrows on the resttalk phazer? Yes, it does hit everything, but the only things it hits over your boring standard eq are flying types, which can easily roost the very low damage dealt off, or just oblivion wing away in the case of Yveltal (and it's not like ho-oh stays on zyg anyways), and gira-o, which doesn't love dtail. Earthquake is a moderately stronger hit, which has more use in wearing down the many recoverless uber mons.
Then again, if there is something more to it that I am not aware of, tell me.
 

Freeroamer

The greatest story of them all.
is a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributor
Those aren't unfair points, but there's also the flip point that the extra 10 damage is very unlikely to make a difference in a lot of scenarios whereas Thousand Arrows is incredibly safe to click in a lot of scenarios given that only Grass and Bug types actually resist it, both of which are very rare typing in the Ubers metagame. Without Thousand Arrows you also lose the ability to immediately pressure Ho-oh without Stealth Rock up, which would really be quite sad considering you're the best counter in the game to it as things currently stand(D Tail doesn't even break sub)
 
so, can anybody here tell me how is zygarde-complete fairing in the ubers tier? what are the viable sets of it and what level of threat he is? (viability ranking wise).
 

mags

Banned deucer.

Zygarde-Complete @ Leftovers
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Thousand Arrows
- Dragon Tail / toxic

Mikael zygarde is a pretty decent physical tank in ubers at the moment. This is the most used set and probably the best as of right now. Rest / sleeptalk should be mandatory to make sure you can stay healthy and be as less passive as possible. Thousand arrows is the obvious stab that allows it to hit everything consistently. Dragon tail is to phaze setup sweepers and can rack up big damage with a spike setter. Toxic can catch a lot of mons that would usually switch into zygarde like support arcs. It also helps stall out plenty of stuff. It can choose to run some other funky set like glare or dragon dance but those are niche imo. Overall it's pretty effective at just being a massive defensive wall for balance/stall teams. Some things to note is that a lot of mons will be carrying ice moves just to get pass this thing so watch out for an unexpected icebeam/icepunch etc. There is no viability rankings out but I can say it's definitely viable and making a mark on the meta.
 

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