Resource SM Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Final SM Update - #479)

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It's not so much sweeping that puts Groundceus ahead of Arceus, it's its versatility. Arceus Ground can run SD EP or Z, Support, Defog etc...whereas Arceus Normal is fairly one dimensional in its sets. Arceus Ground can also check Primal Groudon, which is a boon for any mon in Ubers. Arceus Ground threatens Zygarde with a potential Ice Beam, unlike Arceus Normal which is hard walled by it (running Ice Beam on your Ekiller can remedy this at the cost of hitting other major mons ie. Gar). I've missed a lot, but if you need more convincing ask shrang why ekiller is shit.

No idea how fucking Lucario was higher than groundceus at any point in time.
 
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Time for my monthly nominations:

Arceus Ghost: A- to bottom of A

Pretty much the prime offensive Arceus not named Arceus Normal. It can be somewhat versatile with special or more defensive sets, but the real powerhouse set is it's SD Ghostium Z set. Compared to other formes above, I'd say it's a lot better than Arceus-Water at the moment and either better or at least on par with Arceus Dark. This Pokemon's breaking ability in SM is absurd, without physdef Yveltal running around and with ghost resists being the aforementioned Yveltal (offensive can't reliably check it) and other things like Muk or Tyranitar. Its absolutely unreal how much this Pokemon can do for offensive teams that are either E-killer weak or need an offensive spin blocker, it offers defensive synergy for offense while also being able to put enormous offensive pressure on opposing cores, breaking down pretty much everything with it's standard set (usually a toss up between espeed/shadow claw/recover or even stone edge for that last 4th slot).

That ability to be such a huge offensive threat, provide quality defensive synergy for an offensive Arceus forme, support the team with spin blocking as well as either provide some form of priority (if need be) or patch up another weakness your team may have (with the corresponding 4th move) is the main reason why I'd rank this Pokemon in A rather than A-.

Mega Sableye: B+ to bottom of A-

I honestly cannot understand why this Pokemon, as well as Lugia, aren't ranked higher than they are right now. Mega Sableye is such a huge tool for bulkier teams, ranging from fatter balances to full blown stall, the magic bouncing ghost offers not only a rock solid defensive check to a plethora of scary Pokemon in the Ubers tier, but it is also able to bounce back field moves, ranging from status moves that might irritate teams to hazards as well as provide a solid backbone against common threats and even offer support with it's spin blocking capabilities (fatter teams often work better with the pile up of their own hazards). I just don't understand how it finds itself currently behind Pokemon such as Dialga and Rayquaza, pretty much compressing unto itself so many valuable assets necessary for bulkier teams.

Lugia: B+ to bottom of A- (right behind the incoming Sableye if both are done)

As much as I think it is slightly worse than Mega Sableye at the moment, I really don't get how Lugia can be in B+ either. Checks pretty much almost every scary physical attacker in the tier while being a solid status spreader and backup check to a lot of things that might get out of hand. As much as rocks weakness is annoying and psychic type is defensively crippling, Lugia's potential with clerics (which its teams almost always have) is unmatched by any Pokemon in this tier. It's ability to shuffle around enemy teams with hazards up and just completely take control of games is astounding, especially considering that the ways of beating it are usually pretty easily covered by common stall characters, meaning that the Pokemon that already find themselves providing quality synergy with Lugia are effectively capable of covering it's few weaknesses. There's just absolutely no way this physical sponge and defensive behemoth isn't better than Pokemon like Dialga, Rayquaza and Excadrill, all of which sit above it for some reason.

Didn't elaborate much since it was merely meant to be a discussion sparker.
I would Like to mainly respond (disagree) to the raising of mega Sableye

Mega Sableye: B+ to B-

Lets start with the pro's, Mega Sableye is one of the only viable mega bounce users, and has amazing typing that offers 3 immunities. It has reasonable bulk and is a defensive pokemon not shut down by taunt. It also has a wide movepool with moves like will-o-wisp, fake out, protect, toxic, knock off, taunt, recover, and foul play. Lastly, it does spinblock, although the presence of rapid spinners is quite low in my experience as of late. For these main points, these are the positive traits that solidify Mega Sableye as a good pokemon in defensive teams.

Now for the con's, or the downsides I believe should keep mega-sableye where it is. The biggest problems with sable eye are...
1. Mega Sableye is one dimensional, takes up your mega slot, and immunities are mediorce.

Although Mega Sableye does have a wide supportive movepool, it lacks the ability to pivot or run any type of offensive set effectively, making it quite predictable and outplayable. It also takes up your mega slot, not allowing pokemon like mega-lucario and more importantly mega-salamance on your team, one of the best sweepers in the tier. As far as typing, having immunities to normal and fighting are not that useful, as there are plenty of e-killer checks, plus fighting and normal attacking moves are uncommon in the ubers tier. On the other hand Its psychic immunity is strong, and helps it wall pokemon like deoxys-attack and mewtwo(all forms).

2. Mega Sableye lacks setup, can get heavily punished by common antileads, and gets crushed by many of the heavy attackers in the tier.

Deoxys-speed and excadrill are the two that really come to mind, with excadrill using moldbreaker to just setup anyway, and deoxys can use skill swap to absolutely crush any stall team. To be fair though, these would be considered counters, which all pokemon have. More importantly, mega-sableye can't setup because it doesn't learn stealth rock or spikes (and toxic spikes), and cannot wall many of the common attackers running rampant in the tier such as mega-salamance, ho-oh, P-don(even defensive set), yveltal and rayquaza, along with allowing free setup to many of these pokemon, but also provides free setup to one of the most dangerous pokemon in the tier, Xerneas.
For these reason's, I Feel sableye is one dimensional, and only fits on teams in need of magic bounce support and situational checks to certain offensive pokemon. With this being said, Mega-Sableye should be moved from B to B-.
 
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Are you going to give any reasoning behind this or are you just sticking with "it's good because i said so"
it may have more checks y now but still functions as a good late game sweeper, thats why its in A rank. It also has decent natural bulk. Zygarde complete is tough but needs to be below 50% hp, so it can be ohkoed or severely damaged before transformation and ice types hit him hard. E-killer is a late game sweeper. Let me quote "It is still able to do what Extreme Killer is designed for, which is sweep late-game; you just need to take a few more precautions in dealing with its checks." - Smogon Strategy Pokedex
We all know it still does what ts assigned to do, bulky e-killer also does what offensive-e killer does. And wallceus, although not a great wall can check zygarde and salamence. Thats why its still usable.
 
it may have more checks y now but still functions as a good late game sweeper, thats why its in A rank. It also has decent natural bulk. Zygarde complete is tough but needs to be below 50% hp, so it can be ohkoed or severely damaged before transformation and ice types hit him hard. E-killer is a late game sweeper. Let me quote "It is still able to do what Extreme Killer is designed for, which is sweep late-game; you just need to take a few more precautions in dealing with its checks." - Smogon Strategy Pokedex
We all know it still does what ts assigned to do, bulky e-killer also does what offensive-e killer does. And wallceus, although not a great wall can check zygarde and salamence. Thats why its still usable.
No one said ekiller is unusable. It's definitely still one of the premier arceus formes. It's jus that it is fairly predictable, unlike groundceus, which is able to fulfill a number of roles well. Metagame conditoons are also less kind to it than they were last gen, which is why it's ranked lower.
 
No one said ekiller is unusable. It's definitely still one of the premier arceus formes. It's jus that it is fairly predictable, unlike groundceus, which is able to fulfill a number of roles well. Metagame conditoons are also less kind to it than they were last gen, which is why it's ranked lower.
majora in a fedora said its shit, I totally agree
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
it may have more checks y now but still functions as a good late game sweeper, thats why its in A rank. It also has decent natural bulk. Zygarde complete is tough but needs to be below 50% hp, so it can be ohkoed or severely damaged before transformation and ice types hit him hard. E-killer is a late game sweeper. Let me quote "It is still able to do what Extreme Killer is designed for, which is sweep late-game; you just need to take a few more precautions in dealing with its checks." - Smogon Strategy Pokedex
We all know it still does what ts assigned to do, bulky e-killer also does what offensive-e killer does. And wallceus, although not a great wall can check zygarde and salamence. Thats why its still usable.
I think what we're trying to tell you is that ekiller is by no means not viable, it's just not at all as good as it was last gen. I personally would disagree with the suggestion that ekiller is a late-game sweeper (it's always been a revenge-killer in my opinion). Ekiller doesn't really do either of those roles as well as it did in ORAS. Yveltal is used much more, Mixed RP pdon is used much more, Ghostceus is used much more. On top of that Zygarde-100 exists and so does Lunala (yes ekiller helps check it but if your opp plays around it you lose).

The other part of your argument was that Groundceus isn't as good as ekiller. While ekiller dropped a lot in viability in SM, groundceus did the opposite. A lot of the new things that made ekiller drop made groundceus better (zygarde-100 and mixed rp pdon for example).

So yeah like I said ekiller is certainly still a good mon but it's just not what it was last gen. And groundceus is the opposite, it was decent last gen but the new changes made it more viable.
 
I think what we're trying to tell you is that ekiller is by no means not viable, it's just not at all as good as it was last gen. I personally would disagree with the suggestion that ekiller is a late-game sweeper (it's always been a revenge-killer in my opinion). Ekiller doesn't really do either of those roles as well as it did in ORAS. Yveltal is used much more, Mixed RP pdon is used much more, Ghostceus is used much more. On top of that Zygarde-100 exists and so does Lunala (yes ekiller helps check it but if your opp plays around it you lose).

The other part of your argument was that Groundceus isn't as good as ekiller. While ekiller dropped a lot in viability in SM, groundceus did the opposite. A lot of the new things that made ekiller drop made groundceus better (zygarde-100 and mixed rp pdon for example).

So yeah like I said ekiller is certainly still a good mon but it's just not what it was last gen. And groundceus is the opposite, it was decent last gen but the new changes made it more viable.
Now that is right, though its still considered a late game sweeper. Rise of ghost types also made arceus a little more viable as a wall, bulky e-killer is more popular nowadays as I have seen.
 


Genesect: D to top of C

I've been using an hyper offensive team revolves around a Genesect equipped with a Choice Scarf, and it has been putting in a lot of work. (I have been able to reach the Top 100 of Uber's exclusively playing with said team. Here it is the proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/6c3tdq/uber_help_me_finish_my_team_update/)

It's understandable that this pokemon is far from being considered strong but, I completely disagree with it being the second worst viable pokemon in the tier.
I'll now mention what pros and cons this pokemon has:

Pros:
  • Really solid type;
  • Huge move pool;
  • Reasonable speed tier;
  • Doesn't occupy a mega slot.

Cons:
  • Its lackluster defences don't mesh up well with its great type;
  • Relies on its ability to deal significant damage.

As you can see, Genesect doesn't really have the greatest attributes in its favor but, despite all of that being truth, it still can be a solid revenge killer when using a Choice Scarf. A really common threat in Sun and Moon, Xerneas, is decently checked with this version of Genesect, as you can kill it with an Iron Head (taking in consideration the damage dealt by Stealth Rocks). Another dangerous pokemons like Mega Salamance and the newcomer Zygarde-100% fall to your coverage moves (in these cases Ice Beam).

While I know that it requires a lot of support in order to fully unleash Genesect's power, it is definatetly still a threat.
 


Genesect: D to top of C

I've been using an hyper offensive team revolves around a Genesect equipped with a Choice Scarf, and it has been putting in a lot of work. (I have been able to reach the Top 100 of Uber's exclusively playing with said team. Here it is the proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/6c3tdq/uber_help_me_finish_my_team_update/)

It's understandable that this pokemon is far from being considered strong but, I completely disagree with it being the second worst viable pokemon in the tier.
I'll now mention what pros and cons this pokemon has:

Pros:
  • Really solid type;
  • Huge move pool;
  • Reasonable speed tier;
  • Doesn't occupy a mega slot.

Cons:
  • Its lackluster defences don't mesh up well with its great type;
  • Relies on its ability to deal significant damage.

As you can see, Genesect doesn't really have the greatest attributes in its favor but, despite all of that being truth, it still can be a solid revenge killer when using a Choice Scarf. A really common threat in Sun and Moon, Xerneas, is decently checked with this version of Genesect, as you can kill it with an Iron Head (taking in consideration the damage dealt by Stealth Rocks). Another dangerous pokemons like Mega Salamance and the newcomer Zygarde-100% fall to your coverage moves (in these cases Ice Beam).

While I know that it requires a lot of support in order to fully unleash Genesect's power, it is definatetly still a threat.
Mentioned some of its pros and cons nicely. Download ability, nice coverage and that good typing only weak to fire ( but 4x) makes it a decent offensive choice scarfer. It can be both physical and special attacker but special attacker is preferred as there are not many mons that are more specially defensive in the game making it easier for it to boost its sp attack. But it falls in the four move syndrome and its item only allows it to use the move it executed first. Somewhere in C ranks (not C+ its too much for it) is okay for this baby.
 
Mentioned some of its pros and cons nicely. Download ability, nice coverage and that good typing only weak to fire ( but 4x) makes it a decent offensive choice scarfer. It can be both physical and special attacker but special attacker is preferred as there are not many mons that are more specially defensive in the game making it easier for it to boost its sp attack. But it falls in the four move syndrome and its item only allows it to use the move it executed first. Somewhere in C ranks (not C+ its too much for it) is okay for this baby.
Good thing that you have pointed out the Choice Specs set, as that is also a pretty viable set and also, I forgot to mention this, but it increases Genesect's unpredictability, which can be nice in order for you to get the most advantageous boost provided by its ability, Download.

Choice Specs emphasises on a wallbreaker type of role and, in my opinion, it's its best item for said role, while Choice Scarf allows Genesect to act as a revenge killer. With that said, I wouldn't use Choice Scarf with Special Attack investment, as with that set you will be using U-Turn multiple times through the match.

As for Genesect's ranking I think you miss understood. I said that Genesect should be placed in the C rank, but on the very top of C.

Anyway, thanks for your analysis!
 
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The main problem with Genesect is that metagame conditions are simply very unkind to it. It's completely walled by Primal Groudon, which has been the best Pokemon in the tier since the days of ORAS and is on nearly every viable team. The best thing that Genesect can do to it is hit U-turn for ~10% damage and go out into an actually half decent Pokemon to check it. Primal Groudon's presence alone is pretty much enough to punish Genesect for using anything other than U-turn, as it can come in practically for free and set up Stealth Rock, or even worse, set up a Swords Dance/Rock Polish.

Genesect also suffers from offering next to no defensive utility, which makes it very difficult to splash onto teams. Its terrible bulk means that even stuff that it should theoretically be able to come in on and beat, like Mega Salamence and Xerneas, easily 2HKO it. Its typing is also ridiculously bad offensively, and it tends to give free setup opportunities to stuff like Mega Lucario and offensive Arceus formes if locked into the wrong move. It doesn't fulfill any of the roles most Steel-types in Ubers do, which leaves it outclassed in almost any way imaginable by the likes of Celesteela, Dialga, and Mega Metagross. Its job as a revenge killer is also done far better by other Choice Scarf users such as Yveltal and Lunala, which actually have some utility defensively and don't just get hard walled by a bunch of very common threats such as Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh.

tl;dr Genesect is still terrible and has no niche in Ubers.
 
The main problem with Genesect is that metagame conditions are simply very unkind to it. It's completely walled by Primal Groudon, which has been the best Pokemon in the tier since the days of ORAS and is on nearly every viable team. The best thing that Genesect can do to it is hit U-turn for ~10% damage and go out into an actually half decent Pokemon to check it. Primal Groudon's presence alone is pretty much enough to punish Genesect for using anything other than U-turn, as it can come in practically for free and set up Stealth Rock, or even worse, set up a Swords Dance/Rock Polish.

Genesect also suffers from offering next to no defensive utility, which makes it very difficult to splash onto teams. Its terrible bulk means that even stuff that it should theoretically be able to come in on and beat, like Mega Salamence and Xerneas, easily 2HKO it. Its typing is also ridiculously bad offensively, and it tends to give free setup opportunities to stuff like Mega Lucario and offensive Arceus formes if locked into the wrong move. It doesn't fulfill any of the roles most Steel-types in Ubers do, which leaves it outclassed in almost any way imaginable by the likes of Celesteela, Dialga, and Mega Metagross. Its job as a revenge killer is also done far better by other Choice Scarf users such as Yveltal and Lunala, which actually have some utility defensively and don't just get hard walled by a bunch of very common threats such as Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh.

tl;dr Genesect is still terrible and has no niche in Ubers.
thats why its place is somewhere below c
 
The main problem with Genesect is that metagame conditions are simply very unkind to it. It's completely walled by Primal Groudon, which has been the best Pokemon in the tier since the days of ORAS and is on nearly every viable team. The best thing that Genesect can do to it is hit U-turn for ~10% damage and go out into an actually half decent Pokemon to check it. Primal Groudon's presence alone is pretty much enough to punish Genesect for using anything other than U-turn, as it can come in practically for free and set up Stealth Rock, or even worse, set up a Swords Dance/Rock Polish.

Genesect also suffers from offering next to no defensive utility, which makes it very difficult to splash onto teams. Its terrible bulk means that even stuff that it should theoretically be able to come in on and beat, like Mega Salamence and Xerneas, easily 2HKO it. Its typing is also ridiculously bad offensively, and it tends to give free setup opportunities to stuff like Mega Lucario and offensive Arceus formes if locked into the wrong move. It doesn't fulfill any of the roles most Steel-types in Ubers do, which leaves it outclassed in almost any way imaginable by the likes of Celesteela, Dialga, and Mega Metagross. Its job as a revenge killer is also done far better by other Choice Scarf users such as Yveltal and Lunala, which actually have some utility defensively and don't just get hard walled by a bunch of very common threats such as Primal Groudon and Ho-Oh.

tl;dr Genesect is still terrible and has no niche in Ubers.
While I do agree that Ho-oh completely walls every single Genesect's set (as long Stealth Rocks aren't on the field, because with those set up, Ho-oh will get 2HKO most of the times by the Choice Scarf set), Primal Groudon cannot switch directly into a Genesect equipped with Choice Specs, as it will get easialy 2HKO.

Here are the damage calcs of such switches:
(The bonuses that Genesect has are generated by its ability, Download.)
  • +1 252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 102-120 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • +1 252 SpA Choice Specs Genesect Techno Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 215-253 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With such line of thought, Choice Scarf Kyogre also gets completely walled by Primal-Groudon and by Ferrothorn but, still, is ranked tier C. I'm not saying that Genesect is easy to build a team around, but it definitely doesn't belong to tier D.

As a counter argument to what you said about a Genesect using a Choice Scarf, while it has less offensive presence than Yveltal and Lunala, it offers different advantages. Genesect uses a physical set, offers momentum with a strong STAB U-Turn that can be used to either kill your target or to retain momentum, in case that your opponent decides to make a switch, and it can act as a soft check to Xerneas.

But then again, you are comparing tier A- / A+ pokemons with Genesect, a pokemon that all that I'm saying is that it deserves to be rated tier C.

Genesect: D to top of C
 
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Aberforth

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Specs Genesect is not viable, for a number of reasons including but not limited to: Ho-oh, Ho-oh and Ho-oh. The 'niche' Genesect has is being a fast U turner with some revenge killing options with the Scarf set, going specs just loses all of its good qualities to have a special attacker that isn't even very strong by ubers standards, most especially when roughly half the time you're not going to get the Special Attack boost with Download.

Not saying anything about the rest of the nom cause honestly I've not played in a little while and haven't even tried to build with Genesect this gen.
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
While I do agree that Ho-oh completely walls every single Genesect's set (as long Stealth Rocks aren't on the field, because with those set up, Ho-oh will get 2HKO most of the times by the Choice Scarf set), Primal Groudon cannot switch directly into a Genesect equipped with Choice Specs, as it will get easialy 2HKO.

Here are the damage calcs of such switches:
(The bonuses that Genesect has are generated by its ability, Download.)
  • +1 252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Ho-Oh: 102-120 (24.5 - 28.9%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • +1 252 SpA Choice Specs Genesect Techno Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Groudon-Primal: 215-253 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With such line of thought, Choice Scarf Kyogre also gets completely walled by Primal-Groudon and by Ferrothorn but, still, is ranked tier C. I'm not saying that Genesect is easy to build a team around, but it definitely doesn't belong to tier D.

As a counter argument to what you said about a Genesect using a Choice Scarf, while it has less offensive presence than Yveltal and Lunala, it offers different advantages. Genesect uses a physical set, offers momentum with a strong STAB U-Turn that can be used to either kill your target or to retain momentum, in case that your opponent decides to make a switch, and it can act as a soft check to Xerneas.

But then again, you are comparing tier A- / A+ pokemons with Genesect, a pokemon that all that I'm saying is that it deserves to be rated tier C.

Genesect: D to top of C
Ok so Genesect does have a niche, which is as a scarfed offensive pivot (I think that's the right term). I've never even heard of specs Genesect up until now and just by hearing the name I can tell it's a meme-tier set. Anyway, like I said. Genesect's only viable set in ubers is choice scarf with U-Turn/Ice Beam/Coverage/Coverage. 99% of the time you'll be using it is switching in after one of your mon dies and U-Turning into whatever mon your opp has out. That's pretty much all it does. And there are multiple mons in Ubers that fit that role much better, mainly Yveltal and Landorus-T. (Yveltal's advantage is its STABs and Foul Play, while Lando's advantage is Intimidate and STAB Earthquake).

Probably should have structured that better but tl;dr: Genesect sucks and there's no reason to use it over other mons that fit its role much better.

p.s. the ladder isn't really an indicator of being skilled at the meta, and the ubers tour circlejerk will crucify you if you try and back up your statements with it
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
thats why its place is somewhere below c
C rank is for mons that are only viable because of a specific niche (for example smeargle is good at setting webs and cloyster can set toxic spikes). Genesect is outclassed in its niche by other mons so there's no reason to put it there.
 
Specs Genesect is not viable, for a number of reasons including but not limited to: Ho-oh, Ho-oh and Ho-oh. The 'niche' Genesect has is being a fast U turner with some revenge killing options with the Scarf set, going specs just loses all of its good qualities to have a special attacker that isn't even very strong by ubers standards, most especially when roughly half the time you're not going to get the Special Attack boost with Download.

Not saying anything about the rest of the nom cause honestly I've not played in a little while and haven't even tried to build with Genesect this gen.
While, in my opinion, Choice Scarf is the premier item for Genesect, Choice Specs can be utilized to a decent success, since said item allows Genesect to act as a reasonable wallbreaker.

Of course there are quite a bit of flaws with the Choice Specs set, such as these:
  • While the Choice Scarf set doesn't need to hit hard in order to clean up properly, the Choice Specs set must, however, gain a Special Attack boost from Genesect's ability, Download, to be treated as a threat;
  • Genesect's 99 base Speed can be quite lackluster whenever you aren't carrying a Choice Scarf;
  • Techno Blast is Genesect's strongest move when equipped with Choice Specs, since such move is normal type it can invite Ghost types to want to come for free.
As you can see, there are many flaws that affect this item viability when being held by Genesect, and I'm not even mentioning the multitude of pokemons that can check it (looking at you Ho-oh). However, being able to 2HKO many dangerous pokemons, such as primal groudon and most arceus forms, can make this item viable if you do have enough aways to deal with this set's checks with your other 5 pokemons.

Is Choice Specs the better item for Genesect? Definately no, but it can fit in certain teams that could abuse the brighter sides of said set.
 
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Ok so Genesect does have a niche, which is as a scarfed offensive pivot (I think that's the right term). I've never even heard of specs Genesect up until now and just by hearing the name I can tell it's a meme-tier set. Anyway, like I said. Genesect's only viable set in ubers is choice scarf with U-Turn/Ice Beam/Coverage/Coverage. 99% of the time you'll be using it is switching in after one of your mon dies and U-Turning into whatever mon your opp has out. That's pretty much all it does. And there are multiple mons in Ubers that fit that role much better, mainly Yveltal and Landorus-T. (Yveltal's advantage is its STABs and Foul Play, while Lando's advantage is Intimidate and STAB Earthquake).

Probably should have structured that better but tl;dr: Genesect sucks and there's no reason to use it over other mons that fit its role much better.

p.s. the ladder isn't really an indicator of being skilled at the meta, and the ubers tour circlejerk will crucify you if you try and back up your statements with it
Yveltal is a solid Choice Scarf user, on the other hand, I won't even consider Landorus-T a viable Choice Scarf user in Uber. Sure Landorus-T can be amazing in OU, but here, in Ubers, there are too many viable counters to it. With that said, I will only talk about Yveltal.

Let's put things clear. While Yveltal is a better pokemon overall, it does not provide the same advantages that Genesect does. These are the note worthy differences between this two pokemons:
  • Yveltal has a better offensive type and better attack stats, but you cannot utilize its U-Turn as an offensive approach since it won't receive the STAB and you won't have any Attack investment, because whenever Yveltal is holding a Choice Scarf you want to max its Special Attack;
  • Genesect can act as a soft check of Xerneas, while Yveltal is forced out by it;
  • While Genesect's bulk is laughable, its type is quite solid defensive wise.
Contrary to what you said, Genesect must have Iron Head on its Choice Scarf set, and not U-Turn + 3 coverage moves. Iron Head allows Genesect to act as a really decent cleaner whenever it has an Attack boosted provived by its ability, Download.

And, for some reason you are bringing up an A+ tier pokemon as an argument as to why Genesect doesn't belong to tier C.

P.s.: In all of my 5 posts here I only talked about my rank in the first post to give some credibility to what I was saying. I apologize if it bothered you.

I still keep my statment.

Genesect: tier D to top of tier C
 
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kilometerman

Banned deucer.
Yveltal is a solid Choice Scarf user, on the other hand, I won't even consider Landorus-T a viable Choice Scarf user in Uber. Sure Landorus-T can be amazing in OU, but here, in Ubers, there are too many viable counters to it. With that said, I will only talk about Yveltal.

Let's put things clear. While Yveltal is a better pokemon overall, it does not provide the same advantages that Genesect does. These are the note worthy differences between this two pokemons:
  • Yveltal has a better offensive type and better attack stats, but you cannot utilize its U-Turn as an offensive approach since it won't receive the STAB and you won't have any Attack investment, because whenever Yveltal is holding a Choice Scarf you want to max its Special Attack;
  • Genesect can act as a soft check of Xerneas, while Yveltal is forced out by it;
  • While Genesect's bulk is laughable, its type is quite solid defensive wise.
Contrary to what you said, Genesect must have Iron Head on its Choice Scarf set, and not U-Turn + 3 coverage moves. Iron Head allows Genesect to act as a really decent cleaner whenever it has an Attack boosted provived by its ability, Download.

And, for some reason you are bringing up an A+ tier pokemon as an argument as to why Genesect doesn't belong to tier C.

P.s.: In all of my 5 posts here I only talked about my rank in the first post to give some credibility to what I was saying. I apologize if it bothered you.

I still keep my statment.

Genesect: tier D to top of tier C
Im not comparing regular Yveltal and Genesect, first off. I was specifically referring to Yveltal's choice scarf set. I also don't know why I wrote Landorus, I was tired last night and wasn't thinking straight (I was thinking of u-turners not just scarf u-turners). But also Landorus-T has a really good niche (and its much better viability-wise than genesect)

"Yveltal has a better offensive type and better attack stats, but you cannot utilize its U-Turn as an offensive approach since it won't receive the STAB and you won't have any Attack investment, because whenever Yveltal is holding a Choice Scarf you want to max its Special Attack;"
You do realize that Genesect's niche is in U-turning into mons that can actually secure a KO, right? Maybe it was different in BW or XY but it has never been a mon that uses U-Turn to deal a lot of damage. IIRC it's the same in OU, Landorus-T doesn't carry U-turn to deal huge damage, it carries it to get a free switch-in on whatever mon your opponent sends out to take the hit.

"Genesect can act as a soft check of Xerneas, while Yveltal is forced out by it;"
Genesect is hardly a Xerneas check at all. It gets OHKOd by moonblast if rocks are up and can't even get its own guaranteed OHKO.

"While Genesect's bulk is laughable, its type is quite solid defensive wise."
Maybe in OU, but in a tier where Primal Groudon is on every team and pretty much every other mon except for Xerneas can 2HKO it with neutral moves, bug/steel is not at all a good typing.

"And, for some reason you are bringing up an A+ tier pokemon as an argument as to why Genesect doesn't belong to tier C."
Like I said earlier, tier C is for mons that would be completely unusable if it weren't for a very specific niche. And since Genesect's ONLY niche is outdone by another mon, (yveltal), there's no reason to put it there.
 
Genesect isn't good at all. It's outdone as a scarfer by not just Yveltal and Lando-T, but by also Lunala (revenges Ekiller and it's immune to Espeed), Skymin (Serene Grace Air Slash and higher base speed than DD Mega Salamence), Kyurem-W (consistently more powerful than Genesect and has ways to deal greater damage to Pdon with its STABs as well as Earth Power, while providing an important water resist along with solid bulk) , and even something as trash as regular Kyogre thanks to its ability to clean sweep weakened teams with rain-boosted Water Spout given that Pdon is dead while also being much bulkier than Genesect.

Scarf Genesect is nothing more than a nuisance that doesn't do anything substantial compared to the many other, better scarfers in the tier at the end of the day, and its Specs set is even worse as it's much easier to play around with the many Ghost types in the tier that are immune to Techno Blast as well as the presence of Ho-Oh and the many Steels in tier that easily come in on it.
 

kilometerman

Banned deucer.
Diancie: Unranked --> C- rank

Regular Diancie still holds a niche this gen in being a solid check to Yveltal. Not only that it has decent utility options in Heal Bell and Stealth Rock.
 
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