I don't think we should add Pokémon that have a small niche, but get destroyed by 99 % of the metagame. Like there are many Pokémon that have small niches like Quagsire checking E-Killer or Amoonguss checking Xerneas, but its simply not worth to add them because they are dead weight if your opponent isn't even using these Pokémon.
His nominations were sarcastic; they were in response to the nomination of Diancie to C minus rank. The point is, we can't just make nominations like this without considering what the pokemon does in most scenarios outside of its main niche(s). In this case, although primal groudon can be overwhelmed since its team may be dependent on it checking several threats while setting hazards, primal groudon may seem a bit underwhelming at its job. Of course, if you switch it into these threats every time its going to get overwhelmed easily. But that aside, considering the insane role compression it offers teams, along with its great versatility amongst its sets, is what makes primal groudon a true metagame-defining force that no other pokemon has ever achieved.
The reason that Ground is so 'omnipresent' is because Primal Groudon is on virtually every team. I could say the same thing about Fairy and Xerneas, to a slightly lesser degree. That's what makes them S rank; they singlehandedly make a type common.
Well that's not very nice
No! They were not sarcastic at all, in contrary, I am very serious about this. This is in no way related to the Diancie nom. I'm honestly offended that you just assumed these nominations were sarcastic. This thread isn't the place to be funny and joking around with random ass noms. I genuinly think Groudon is too overhyped. If i was sarcastic about these noms, I would've made my post very funny, which it isn't. You can't just go around telling everyone posts are sarcastic, That's just being rude.
I apologize for the misunderstanding; I will be careful about it in the future.
I'm not talking about Ground being omnipresent because of him. Ground has always been one of the most common offensive types, this is what I'm talking about. As if you say Fire is very common because of Ferrothorn being a defensive powerhouse: no, Fire in the last generations has proved himself as one of the strongest offensive typings. What I'm trying to say is that Primal Don is threatened (heavily, because of said lack of recovery) by one of the most overally common and powerful offensive Types. I'm bringing this up to support his transition from a very overhyped Rank S+ to a more fair S.
I see him in maximum C+. He's a hell of a strong mon but Fire / Fighting simply isn't good enough on a thing this frail. His coverage options are Knock Off, Hidden Power Ice and Stone Edge. They have to share slots with Protect and / or Swords Dance, but try to find a nice turn to set up with him. Too many pains in his ass right now. One of his biggest weaknesses is that he has to pray for the KO on his opponent to avoid being obliterated by any high base power move in the Tier: Precipice Blades or Origin Pulse by Primals, Extreme Speed by Arceus, any hit from a Scarfed Palkia, Draco Meteor by Giratina, any SE hit from Mega Salamence, Moonblast by Xerneas (especially if Xerneas has already Z Geomancy activated, Blaziken is just outright dead), Oblivion Wing by Yveltal, Close Combat by Mega Lucario, Moongeist Beam or Psyshock from Lunala, attacks from Mega Mewtwo X or Y, Earthquakes by Arceus Ground, Landorus Therian and Ho-Oh, Brave Bird from said rainbow bird and last but not least... Thousand Arrows from Zygarde Complete, which can take at least two HP Ice and easily throw him into an hellish Ground-typed abyss of pain. This to say that my favorite Fire-type Mega is simply not strong enough to show his attacking talents in a Tier filled with bulky and hard hitting monsters and that four slot syndrome really hurts him.
Try not to be rude about noms you disagree with also please :^)
Groudon has rock polish and one polish is enough for it to outspeed a variety of mons even with sassy, or you can run it in a baton pass team. Its like teela, it has a horrible speed tier but it can be a sweeper with automize, its bulk and offenses are already good and its only weak to ground attack thanks to desolate land and its a good hazard setter to. It can be offensive, tankish or wall its a clear S+ ranked in my opinion.
Usage is not equal to viability. The problem I have with it is that it's overhyped which also shows in the usage. It doesn't deserve that much. In most cases Groudon doesn't pull off as much as people really think it does, or expect it to do. It isn't as versatile as people say it is. It only has about 3 sets that see use. And when you look at preview it's usually easily identifiable. There may be a gap between 1 and 2 in usage, but it's definitly smaller in terms of viability.Primal Groudon is S+. Kind of ridiculous that this even needs to be explained.
It's the most commonly used single forme of a Pokemon by a substantial amount - and for good reason. This mon fits onto almost every team because of how many roles it compresses, because it has flexibility in set selection, and because its sets are good at what they're designed to do. Here are the facts.
SPL VIII:
UPL V:
1760 Ladder:
In all three cases, the difference in usage between P Don and the second most used mon is substantial, while the difference between the second most used mon (Xerneas) and the rest are low by comparison. In some cases, the difference between P Don and Xern is 5 times greater than the difference between Xern and the next highest usage.
Thus, there is a significant gap between P Don and everything else in viability. We describe this gap with the rank of S+.
I do agree with you that usage does not equal viability, however, nomming Pdon from S+ to the top, middle, or bottom of S does not seem logical to me, like at all. I wasn't planning on responding at first, but since so many people seem to think it doesn't deserve S+, let me give you some facts.
1. Primal Groudon has no counters. It has checks.
These calcs, outside of Lele, are simply wrong, you're using normal Groudon instead of Primal, so it does not have the Fire type. The right calcs are here:
Not going into this too much since you clearly don't know what you're doing, and Exiline's post pretty much sums up what I was thinking.
nobody uses excadrill in ru and deoxys-speed can run ice beam, only thing that helps is its ability sturdy to remove hazards but why use it when there are better hazard removers available. I don't think it needs to be ranked in ubers.Donphan from Unranked to C-
Donphan is a good suicide lead, beats Excadrill 1v1, beats Deo-S lacking Psycho Boost and Spins on it.
It can also run Mental Herb because it has Sturdy, rly good mon
It also won a UPL game so it has to be viable...
