SM UU Viability Ranking Thread Mk. II

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Just gonna say, there isn't that much of a reason that conk would use Drain punch when it can smack you woth Facade, which doea noticably more damage, and with prior damage, can actually allow it to kill you eith Mach Punch right after. It still seems like a good set, but that right there just bothered me.
 

Amane Misa

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Just gonna say, there isn't that much of a reason that conk would use Drain punch when it can smack you woth Facade, which doea noticably more damage, and with prior damage, can actually allow it to kill you eith Mach Punch right after. It still seems like a good set, but that right there just bothered me.
Facade does more damage but I use Drain Punch on my Conkeldurr to get some HP back against Steel / Dark types which helps a lot in the long run. Stealth Rock, Spikes and burn damage wear down Conkeldurr so having an option to recover a bit HP is always nice. It also helps against Scizor.
 
Facade does more damage but I use Drain Punch on my Conkeldurr to get some HP back against Steel / Dark types which helps a lot in the long run. Stealth Rock, Spikes and burn damage wear down Conkeldurr so having an option to recover a bit HP is always nice. It also helps against Scizor.
I was meaning in that specific case against that specific Proygon2 set, Facade deals more damage then Drain Punch, putting Porygon2 into a tough position and more susceptible to being killed by something else as well.

I've used Flame Orb Conk before, i know how it works, and Drain Punch is super nice, it's just that Facade would work betetr int he situation I was refrencing
 

Amane Misa

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I was meaning in that specific case against that specific Proygon2 set, Facade deals more damage then Drain Punch, putting Porygon2 into a tough position and more susceptible to being killed by something else as well.

I've used Flame Orb Conk before, i know how it works, and Drain Punch is super nice, it's just that Facade would work betetr int he situation I was refrencing
Ohh sorry, my bad, thought you posted without referring to any to any other post ^^'
 

G-Luke

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Umbreon can operate defensively really well in our current meta with the only set it has. Blissey is not able to perform the same role due to Psyshock on Latias, Clefable is a physical wall, Togekiss (who could also wish to friends) is rocks weak, Espeon is very frail on the physical side and tend to be pursuit trapped (although magic bounce could still be enough niche imo). Florges/Sylveon are bad atm. All of these lack foul play.
C- is fair tho, but it should definitely be ranked imo.

What Could go unranked is Silvally which seems to have 0 effect on the current meta (although SD+Flame charge+Multi-attack
+filler could have gotten some replays this far to prove it)

On this week discussion points I only have enough to say about gastrodon: should probably stay where it is, the reasonings for it haven't changed and access to recover makes swampert envious.

Arcanine is the only wild charge user we have.
Umbreon is trash. No offensive presense. Loses to SOOO much prominent threats in the metagame it isn't funny. Clefable sets up over it, Z-CM Latias beats it, Keldeo creams it, Terrakion and Coba slams it, etc. Sylveon is vastly superior to Umbreon and thats already trash. A defensive Dark type that has no common dark type utility (Knock Off, Taunt) in a meta where soo much Fairies and Fighters are present just cannot compete.

It should be blacklisted from discussion honestly.
 

Adaam

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Hey everyone, I'm not too familiar with Gen 7 but I figured I could share my two cents on Crobat. I think it could use a bump into B- as a lot of teams don't carry Flying resists (probably because of how many good Steels are neutral). I've been looking at UUPL teams and many of them rely on sheer bulk to switch into it, in the form of Hippo, Slowbro, Gliscor, Swampert, Blastoise etc. None of these are reliable since they either lack recovery or get shut down by Taunt if they do, leaving you free to spam Brave Bird without much repercussion. I also don't think I need to explain how useful a 130 speed tier is.

It's flaws can't be ignored, though. M-Aero is still be the dad of UU, most Fighting types carry coverage to smash it, Bee is gone (for now), and recoil sucks. Despite these, Flying-type is possibly the most dangerous attack type and a rise to B- is supported.
 
I agree with Crobat rising to B- rank as I find the choice band set and the flyinium Z with taunt sets to be it's best sets that work pretty good on offensive and balanced team builds. Talonflame does seem like the go to flynium z user due to it's gale wings ability, but Crobat has more power, more speed (not including abilities), and doesn't need as much hazard removal. Talonflame is really good at checking sweepers, though, which is a very good reason to use it over Crobat but, as I've said before, it still needs hazards removal to pull this off.
252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latias: 250-295 (83 - 98%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Cross Poison vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Clefable: 320-378 (81.2 - 95.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock <- Unaware Wall
252 Atk Crobat Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Hippowdon: 178-210 (42.3 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Crobat Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 124+ Def Scizor: 195-229 (56.8 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Crobat Cross Poison vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 278-330 (74.3 - 88.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I would say that a problem that Crobat has it that it has a very weak poison STAB that would actually prove to be really nice against Clefable and Togekiss.

I got a nom myself, by the way, Entei from B- to B rank. Entei's sacred fire attack is really annoying to switch into. Entei as a whole just feels like a tough pokemon to switch into, as even casual resists have to worry about getting 2HKO'd on the switch like Latias and Infernape. Unlike Infernape, as a choice band user it actually has some nice bulk that allows it take a couple hits before going down and it can spam sacred fire which is stronger than iron fist fire punch and isn't forced to go for flare blitz. Entei also has really good priority that allows it to be better than Volcanion, and they both don't have a fast speed tier. Entei's priority is probably just as useful as Talonflame's z brave bird; doesn't hit as hard but, doesn't need hazards off either. I feel like Entei is almost just as good as Infernape but even better than Volcanion, even though Volcanion has an excellent STAB option in steam eruption and Entei is certainly on Talonflame's level.
I didn't include Arcanine in the fire type comparisons because it sucks lmao; seriously, just put in C- rank, a lot of people want that to happen.
 

pokemonisfun

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In this post I'm going to continue discussion on some of the Pokemon brought up in the previous posts. Mainly I believe Porygon2 should rise to B rank, Conkeldurr should rise to A- rank and Umbreon should still be ranked. Also I disagree with the Mega Sharpedo drop and just for the sake of this thread, I'll go ahead and say I agree with or am neutral with all of the discussion points. Since four Pokemon is quite a lot to have detailed analysis with, I'll mainly post in bullet points and replays. Feel free to tag or VM me for further elaboration.

I definitely agree with Jcpdragonx that Porygon2 should be ranked higher because:
  • It is extremely bulky after setup and if it receives a boost from Download can be extremely powerful as well
  • It has nearly perfect coverage with most targets taking neutral STAB damage or a super effective Ice Beam
  • Those two points alone make it a potent sweeper, the only major problem is the cost behind using Porygon2, it takes your Z move and is one time use
  • Even the fact that Porgon2 is moderately slow for a set up sweeper (below + base 115) is not overly problematic because it easily tanks moves from Starmie, Mega Aero, Choice Scarf Pokemon etc.

I also agree with all the above posts saying Conkeldurr should rise, I go on further to say it should rise to A- because:
  • It is extremely powerful and hard to wear down because Drain Punch often heals back damage incurred
  • Similar to Mega Blastoise, Conkeldurr has favorable match ups with most of the metagame and can beat them 1 vs 1, the main difference is that it takes a turn to activate the orb and Conkeldurr trades coverage for power (although it has good coverage too)
These points have already been made so let me demonstrate some of its power through replays:

I disagree that Umbreon should be unranked because:
  • Unlike Blissey, Umbreon can counter several key physical threats including Krookodile, Sharpedo Mega, and has a much better chance against CM Chandelure
  • And the Psyshock immunity even gives Umbreon a better matchup against a few special attackers (Azelf, some Latias, Grass/Fire/Psyshock NP Mew)
  • While Umbreon may be horribly passive versus some threats including the many Fighting and Fairy Pokemon, the same is true for its main competition (Blissey). The other competition is mainly Clefable, which has much lower defensive stats than Umbreon
  • Someone mentioned the lack of Taunt and Knock Off as a downside. Umbreon actually does learn Taunt but is not a great user of it (still, it bothers some opposing walls) and Foul Play is often better than Knock Off anyways and gives it a niche of being a special wall that can kill random threats like Haxorus, Zygarde and prevents SD set up
  • The fact that Umbreon is becoming bait for more and more of the tier (Terrakion drop) is hard to overstate. But it should not completely overshadow Umbreon's great utility moves and defensive stats.

This should not drop down to A rank, A+ rank is suitable for Mega Sharpedo because:
  • Mega Sharpedo has reliable set up, Protect almost always gets a boost
  • After this easy set up, Mega Sharpedo has a great matchup against offensive teams because speed, power and priority resistance (Conkeldurr and random Extremespeeds being the exception) as well as defensive teams since it has surprisingly good power and good coverage (2HKOs Quagsire)
  • Offensive "checks" are not checks at all, Keldeo is OHKOd by Jolly Psychic Fangs from 100% and Hydreigon is OHKOd by Jolly Ice Fang after just 1 SR switch in. Jolly Crunch OHKOs 0/0 Scizor after hazards as well
Pokeaimmd's last UU live showed some issues offense has against Mega Sharpedo if it does not run Conkeldurr.
 

kumiko

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B -> A+​

As clearly evident by anyone who's touched UU within the past month, Flame Orb + Guts Conkeldurr is an incredibly potent threat and is incredibly under ranked. To put it bluntly, it's nigh impossible to find adequate counterplay to this set on most teams. Once burnt, Conk easily 2HKOs virtually every relevant physical wall in the tier; from Clefable to Slowbro to Chesnaught, all find themselves falling to two Facades. The only relevant pkmn in the tier that can shrug off attacks is max defense Hippowdon, which fails to do anything more than recover HP as Conkeldurr spams Facade and Drain Punch, regaining lost HP and doing from 35 to 50% to absolute max defense Hippowdon, eventually even beating Hippowdon one on one. Switchins simply don't exist; any possible one is simply bad in the metagame (Cresselia, Spiritomb, Acrobatics Gliscor, etc). While having no counters doesn't inherently make a Pokemon absurd, Conkeldurr's natural bulk allows it to shrug off a multitude of attacks and regain it through Drain Punch. To put it simply, Conk is deceivingly bulky, even with no bulk at all.

252 SpA Soul Dew Latias Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 290-344 (82.6 - 98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252 Atk Tough Claws Aerodactyl-Mega Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 272-324 (77.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252 Atk Cobalion All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 252-297 (71.7 - 84.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 278-330 (79.2 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
252 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Conkeldurr: 159-187 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 88.7% chance to 2HKO after burn damage

Obviously it isn't a perfect pkmn, but it's banes are really minimal and easily circumvented. the one most likely to be mentioned is that it doesn't immediately get a Flame Orb burn, but in reality it's so absurdly easy to get Conk in on a double or in on a pkmn it can force out that it really is irrelevant. Even if it doesn't hit like a truck immediately and thus letting things like Clefable, Slowbro, etc switch into it and force it out, but it's not like these things appreciate getting knocked on the switch, and surely it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that these things would be likely switchins when Conk hasn't yet activated its orb. After a Knock, Slowbro always dies after Rocks and has a 53% of being 2HKOd without Rocks, and Clefable gravely misses its lefties vs many a mons and takes even more from Facade than Slowbro.

Now such a jump is pretty absurd, but Conk really warrants it. The thing is absurdly difficult to handle and leaves little wiggle room to outplay it, as it p much can OHKO anything that you try to switch in on a predicted resist (ie Latias on Drain, Cobalion/Terrakion on Facade, etc), doesn't have switchins, and pressures every playstyle effectively. It even offers teams loads of offensive utility; revenge killing Mega Sharpedo, Terrakion, Cobalion, Bisharp, etc with Mach is really nice on some teams, especially more offensively oriented ones. Not to mention Conk also nearly invalidates stall without using some super niche counter that can't do anything more than recover off damage and allow a free switch to anything that can abuse it.


A+ -> A​

When I first started playing, I thought I'd find myself using Keldeo a little more than I do in SM OU (for those who don't play SM OU; semi common), but my opinion on Keldeo is really just flat out worse than it is in OU. All of the things Keldeo gravely fears facing just naturally find themselves on virtually every team that checking Keldeo is pretty much an afterthought. Scarf is absurdly easy to handle, allowing things like Clefable, Chesnaught, and offensive Starmie all handle it relatively reliably, while more offensive sets such as Specs and CM + Z Move not only have a few surefire counters, but also fail to circumvent any of them. Latias, Amoonguss, and Celebi all find themselves as really reliable answers to Keldeo, and Keldeo can't really do anything about it. Things like Z-Hyper Beam and Z-Icy Wind on CM really don't do enough; both moves do approximately 75.5% - 89% to standard Amoonguss after a CM, which isn't even enough to kill after Rocks + a round of sludge. Even if chip were to be in mind, stuff like Latias is still absurdly good and an incredibly splashable check to Keldeo. While it isn't by any means "bad" or anything of the sort, I find putting it in the same rank as Cobalion, something that offers far more defensive utility, and a rank above Primarina, which has more fire power and can circumvent switchins to its STABs unlike Keldeo, a little ridiculous and too highly rated.


A -> A-​

Despite the appreciating the introduction to Z Moves, Raikou still seems to be quite lackluster in the meta. Really, I just don't see why it's thought of so highly. Hippowdon is the most reliable answer you can ask for and is a commodity in the tier, Scarf Krook can switchin and shrug off anything aside from Z Hyper Beam, which needs a max roll to kill after Rocks, and things like Latias and Amoonguss are a major thorn in its side. Three of the more common Scarfers in the tier, Krookodile, Hydreigon, and Latias, all resist Electric, are more than capable of taking a HP Ice, and do upwards of 80% with their primary STAB and threaten Raikou out. Scarf Krook in particular is incredibly common right now, most entirely due Latias, but nonetheless hurts Raikous cause of finding effectiveness. Raikou also simply can't viably have high damage output. Either things that switchin will have no trouble walling it, such as Latias and Amoonguss, or it will find itself incapable of finishing off or KOing the simplest of threats. Like, it only does 65 at most to Cobalion with TBolt. While it can really do a number to some teams, and can lure its 'counters' with Z Moves like Never-Ending Nightmare or Breakneck Blitz, it really isn't as effective as its A placement makes it out to be.


B -> B+​

In a metagame dominated by Latias, I find myself using Empoleon semi frequently. While Z-Thunder is most obviously a thing, its usage has somewhat dropped down since the start of UUPL, and Empoleon is one of the better checks to the other sets, thanks to both Roar & Toxic. Empoleon offers loads to teams, more than just being a solid check to Latias. Rocks/Defog, a non-CB Scizor switchin, something that resists both of Primarina's STABs (literally this, Amoonguss, and Tentacruel), and is capable of Roaring out a CM Clefable. Not to mention Empoleon also gives teams with something to get Venomoth off the field, after something is put to bed, which is pretty difficult to find in this metagame.


B- -> B+​

With the drop of Terrakion, I've found myself using bulky and offensive Nidoqueen a lot more often. Being really the only viable Pokemon that resists both STABs from Terrakion, outside of Nidoking, is obviously really nice. Nidoqueen also offers loads of utility to teams, between being a solid Clefable answer, should you run the good set on bulky Queen, a Rocker that eat hits from Mega Aerodactyl and Cobalion, and also even offer teams Toxic Spikes, if need be, is pretty nice. LO Nidoqueen also offers similar utility to defensive while also offering a lot more immediate fire power, making it difficult to switch into. Outside of the obvious very specially bulk pkmn, stuff like Amoonguss and Hippowdon can't find themselves comfortably coming in on a LO Ice Beam. I also find myself wanting a Ground-type on every team to be sure stuff like Raikou and Magneton aren't too threatening, and thanks to Nidoqueen's natural bulk, it can even eat a hit from a misprediction and function fine.


Unranked -> C​

While I was the only one to use Moltres during UUPL, I feel it's being pretty criminally underrated. Thanks to its typing, stats, and movepool, it can beat two of the most common Rockers in the tier, Cobalion and Clefable, with ease and Defog away hazards for Stall teams. Thanks to Pressure, Moltres effortlessly beats most every SR Clefable and removes the Rocks. Moltres also offers teams with a very reliable answer to things like SD Cobalion and Scizor, both of which fail to do much damage after a SD and get OHKOd by Flamethrower. While the idea of a x4 Rock weak 'mon removing hazards is seemingly nonsensical, it's not to be used as the sole means of hazard control, as Clefable and Cobalion are not the only Rockers in the tier. While I haven't experimented with the offensive sets, and don't really plan to, the defensive set offers enough utility to teams it should find itself ranked.


Some other comments I don't feel like going as in depth on that I wished to touch upon.
C+ -> B- / B | In a tier where Krookodile is found nearly a third of the time, having the best possible switchin that also offers a load of utility can be very appreciated. Thanks to its typing, natural bulk, and movepool, Chesnaught offers a lot to teams; a switchin to Scarf Keldeo, a check or counter to every Dark-type in the tier, Spikes (which really are difficult to fit in this tier), and is simply put the best Krookodile answer you could ask for. Chesnaught can also run a niche Worry Seed set to help teams handle Guts Conkeldurr and Gliscor.
C+ -> B- | Similarly to Chesnaught, having an adequate answer to Krookodile is incredibly useful for teams, and Tsareena find itself fit onto more offensively oriented teams than Chesnaught. Tsareena is also apart of a club of a handful of viable hazard removers, something a lot of teams really desire should they run Mega Aerodactyl, Togekiss, or any other Rock weak pkmn. Tsareena also can switch into things like Gliscor and U-turn safely into something capable of KOing it. Generally I think this thing is kinda under ranked, it's by no means a bad mon but it's not exactly top tier, which is why i think it should be placed in the lower portion of B.
C- -> C+ | While there are loads of Electric resists in the tier, finding an adequate answer to Specs Rotom-C alongside a Pursuit user is quite challenging. Most things that are capable of switching into a powerful Volt Switch can not easily shrug off a Specs Leaf Storm, or simply find themselves face giving away momentum as you easily find a switchin into either something to trap Latias or abuse one of the other potential switchins.
Unraked -> C- / C | While pretty much seen as a meme or a low ladder pkmn, I believe Zoroark offers a unique niche to teams that really isn't replicable on any other mon. Scarf Zoroark w. Knock Off | U-Turn | Memento | [Foul Play / Trick / etc] gives teams a fast Scarfer but also Memento, something that really isn't found in the tier. On the team I used with this set, I wanted to give some setup Pokemon the chance to setup after a Memento lowered my opponents stats, and Zoroark was the only boderline viable pkmn that could fit on offense. Zoroark is also fast enough and has a solid movepool between Knock & U-turn to find itself be a passable Scarfer. While I don't necessarily abuse Illusion to the max, it is most certainly on the table to do so and is something the opponent will have to keep in mind. Replay
 

ehT

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Update time!

Changes:
C+ → C-

There's virtually no reason to use this thing. Intimidate and Extreme Speed are useful, but Rocks weakness + sand neutering its already bad recovery + U-turn existing means it fails to check the one thing it's supposed to be good at checking, that being Scizor, while leaving it to be taken advantage of by practically everything else in the tier. It can pressure Clefable to recover, but loses 1v1, and has zero synergy with anything that appreciates its ability to do so, like Scizor or Gengar.
B → A-

Flame Orb is hands down one of the most obnoxious things for bulky offence and stall to face right now. The possibility of Bulk Up, Facade, Knock Off, or Ice Punch makes it absolutely nerve-wracking to switch in to, meaning you're forced to enter a guessing game every time it comes in to prevent it from just picking up a kill. It can be a tad match-up based, though, since there's a good number of teams it simply can't come in on. Definitely not opposed to this moving higher for the reasons given by TDK, but we thought an entire letter rank may have been a bit too far all at once.
B- → C+

Offers the same role compression it's always done, but its passivity + not being a good Fairy resist + lack of recovery make its opportunity cost really high versus the plenty of other Steel-types we have, especially for something so easy to abuse.
A → A-

There's a good reason Hippowdon's so important on balance right now, that being its ability to blanket check so much of the tier while being the only good Electric resist with recovery. But every team will also come with a way to pressure and abuse it; practically every A Rank can heavily damage it or beat it 1v1. Furthermore, many of the things it's supposed to check, like Cobalion and Scizor, have ways around it in the form of Z-Moves and U-turn, respectively.
B → B-

Mienshao is moving down simply due to how tough it is to justify over our other Fighting-types. High Jump Kick is scary, but this comes in exchange for a complete lack of defensive utility, a flawed Speed tier, lack of a secondary STAB, and weak coverage moves, meaning that it only has a particularly good match-up versus hyper offense without a faster Scarfer or Clefable.
Unranked → C-

It may seem a bit strange to rank Moltres after dropping Arcanine, but it has a number of things that make it better than Arcanine as a defensive Fire-type, namely Defog, Roost, Pressure, and a Fighting resistance.

Declined nominations:

Umbreon is remaining unranked because, although it can take on some important threats, most notably Krookodile and Sharpedo, the sheer number of things that just slam dunk on it (practically every Fairy- and Fighting-type takes complete advantage of it) makes it more risk than it's worth. Yes, many of the things that abuse it also abuse Blissey, but Blissey can at least do meaningful damage with Seismic Toss, and takes on infinitely more threats than Umbreon.

Discussion points:
A- → A/A+
A- → A
A+ → A

C- → C/C+

S A+
A → A-

 
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Nice update eht, nice to see you're getting used to being a thread host.

Some things I'd like to discuss:

A- => A

blah blah blah, 2HKO's most of the tier, blah blah blah, good type synergy with a lot of stuff, blah blah blah, only like 2 mons can switch in for free etc. Basically everything that's already been said about Hydreigon already.

S => A+

Yahhhhh Scizor isn't that good anymore. Can't really check/revenge kill what it wants to because shit like Latios and Celebi can just carry HP fire to deal with it. And imo it's swords dance set is really overrated, sure Tech boosted bullet punch is really cool, but it's no sucker punch, and steel/bug is shit offensively, being walled by like every fire type ever.

And am I the only one who realized how shit the rest of Scizor's stats are compared to it's attack?


wow

A => A- /
A+ => A

Why are these guys being suggested to drop? Wasn't Terrak retested like, twice before it was finally allowed in UU? I think I've seen some reasons for Keldeo dropping but I don't remember seeing one for Terrak

(Too lazy to copy and paste pic lol)
Not much to say really, don't really feel like Conk belongs with the top dogs like Kelo, especially when stuff like the Psychic Waifu Dragon and The Pixie Seal are running around but who cares what I think lol.
 
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A => A- /
A+ => A

Why are these guys being suggested to drop? Wasn't Terrak retested like, twice before it was finally allowed in UU? I think I've seen some reasons for Keldeo dropping but I don't remember seeing one for Terrak

(Too lazy to copy and paste pic lol)
Not much to say really, don't really feel like Conk belongs with the top dogs like Kelo, especially when stuff like the Psychic Waifu Dragon and The Pixie Seal are running around but who cares what I think lol.
Not saying I necessarily agree with Terrakion dropping but one of the big things that was noticed during its suspect was that it has a hard time actually getting in safely especially vs offense, and its typing is weak to almost all forms of priority which makes sweeping even with Rock Polish difficult. There might have been more but I can't remember.

I would say Conk is good enough for a rise, its really difficult to switch into Facade, both Latias and Clefable along with a whole bunch of resists not named Gliscor or Hippowdon get donked (and neither of those two are fond of Ice Punch). Mach Punch helps it check a lot of offensive threats while Drain Punch can extend its longevity even with Flame Orb chipping away at its health. I'd be fine with Conk to A

Hydrei is definitely good enough for a rise to A, its tough to switch into LO and Scarf/Specs are quite good. Not to mention everyone's preparing for Latias so that kind of helps it because it can beat some common Lati checks 1v1 like Krook.

Scizor needs the drop, there are at least 2 countermeasures to this thing on every team and I think the meta has finally caught up to it.
 
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Hilomilo

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I disagree with Scizor dropping. While it's true that Latias can carry Hidden Power to hit it, it can often struggle when using the move due to a lack of recovery provided by Roost or a lack of Healing Wish, which is great for allowing teammates to wallbreak early game, punch some holes itself, and heal that teammate up for the late game to clean up while also letting it in for free. As for Latias's offensive CM set, it generally prefers Draco Meteor or Psyshock as its Z-move (Roost usually takes the last slot unless Latias wants to risk getting worn down really easily), which at +2, still can't OHKO Scizor's best set, which can proceed to recover off the damage taken. It seems to me that Latias is more interested in the perks of using Roost + Z-move than HP Fire at this stage in the metagame, which unless its managed to reach +3 to OHKO with Devastating Drake, isn't enough for me to believe that Latias beating Scizor is a valid reason for a drop. As far as other reasons are concerned, I generally think that Scizor's responded fairly well to various metagame trends. Magneton's slightly fallen off since the start of the meta, while Volcanion isn't seen as frequently. Meanwhile, really popular Pokemon in Gliscor, Hippowdon, Mew, Clefable, and more give Scizor a free opportunity to set up. Terrakion's entry into the tier has also helped Scizor a lot, as by virtue of Bullet Punch, it can threaten one of the tier's scariest sweepers, which isn't something that Bisharp's Sucker Punch can accomplish unless Terrakion's been significantly weakened. Overall, Scizor's responded fairly well to quite a few metagame trends, and keeps so many threats at bay between its typing, ability, and great bulk for an offensive mon that it'd be a shame to see such a meta-defining Pokemon drop from S.

As for Terrakion, I definitely think that it warrants a drop to A-. The current metagame really just isn't kind to it. Offensive teams will more often than not keep it from setting up with both Rock Polish and Swords Dance, which either keeps it from being able to power through most foes, or leaves it outsped and revenged by extremely common picks for offense in Choice Scarf Infernape/Keldeo/Krookodile, Zygarde-10%, Mega Aerodactyl, etc. Scizor's presence in the tier also really hurts it, since Terrakion really can't look to set up at all unless Scizor's been removed unless it wants to be revenge killed by Bullet Punch immediately. As far as other sets go, Choice Band lacks at times crucial Speed, while Choice Scarf faces a lot of competition as a revenge killer from Infernape and Keldeo, due to their better matchups against the likes of Scizor, Klefki, in Infernape's case Celebi and Amoonguss, and in Keldeo's case the tier's myriad of bulky Ground-types. Overall, Terrakion struggles due to various metagame trends, and due to its worse consistency in comparison to anything else in A, should drop to a more suitable rank in A-.

To finish off this post, I'd like to go ahead and shed some a light on another Fighting-type -
Infernape. A rise to A- was suggested a few times recently, but seemed to have gotten lost in all the discussion. In my honest opinion, Infernape is among the metagame's most consistent revenge killers, and also the tier's best Fire-type, which should be reflected in rising it above Volcanion. Its mixed attacking and Choice Scarf sets both perform at such a high level of consistency, as mixed attacking sets are really appreciated for their extremely small amount of switch-ins in the current meta, while Infernape's typing gives it the advantage over other Fighting-type scarfers against stuff like Amoonguss, Celebi, Klefki, Clefable, and Scizor. Other sets are also really nice due to Infernape's ability to lure bulky Water-types super well with Swords Dance + Gigavolt Havoc, while Nasty Plot also has great potential as a late-game cleaner with extremely limited counterplay due to the ability to break past Blissey. Overall, Infernape possesses so much consistency between four or five different sets, which under the circumstance that you mispredict which set it's running (which isn't hard at all), can cost you a Pokemon or two, which among all these other valuable traits, is enough for me to believe that being ranked along with the likes of Celebi, Swampert, and Mega Blastoise is warranted at this time. Thanks for reading!
 
To finish off this post, I'd like to go ahead and shed some a light on another Fighting-type -
Infernape. A rise to A- was suggested a few times recently, but seemed to have gotten lost in all the discussion. In my honest opinion, Infernape is among the metagame's most consistent revenge killers, and also the tier's best Fire-type, which should be reflected in rising it above Volcanion. Its mixed attacking and Choice Scarf sets both perform at such a high level of consistency, as mixed attacking sets are really appreciated for their extremely small amount of switch-ins in the current meta, while Infernape's typing gives it the advantage over other Fighting-type scarfers against stuff like Amoonguss, Celebi, Klefki, Clefable, and Scizor. Other sets are also really nice due to Infernape's ability to lure bulky Water-types super well with Swords Dance + Gigavolt Havoc, while Nasty Plot also has great potential as a late-game cleaner with extremely limited counterplay due to the ability to break past Blissey. Overall, Infernape possesses so much consistency between four or five different sets, which under the circumstance that you mispredict which set it's running (which isn't hard at all), can cost you a Pokemon or two, which among all these other valuable traits, is enough for me to believe that being ranked along with the likes of Celebi, Swampert, and Mega Blastoise is warranted at this time. Thanks for reading!
Seconding the nom for Ape. Mixed Attacker is really nice because of the versatility it offers, Infernape can be tailored to punch holes in whatever or to remove a certain Pokemon so another can sweep (i.e. running Grass Knot for Hippo/Pert so Lucario or Cobalion can sweep or w/e). As Hilomilo mentioned Grass and Steel-types are pretty common and Infernape can lay waste to them with its Fire STAB. Getting dicked by Latias kind of sucks but Ape has enough utility to be considered an A- mon.
 
Seconding the nom for Ape. Mixed Attacker is really nice because of the versatility it offers, Infernape can be tailored to punch holes in whatever or to remove a certain Pokemon so another can sweep (i.e. running Grass Knot for Hippo/Pert so Lucario or Cobalion can sweep or w/e). As Hilomilo mentioned Grass and Steel-types are pretty common and Infernape can lay waste to them with its Fire STAB. Getting dicked by Latias kind of sucks but Ape has enough utility to be considered an A- mon.
Well, on the swords dance set at least it gets Shadow Claw, so it has options for it, it's not like it's totally cockblocked by latias

And that's another thing, Fighting/Ghost is amazing because I'm pretty sure no current pokemon resist both types.
 
Scizor should stay S imo. Most of its answers have trouble actually switching in, since most Steels get destroyed by Superpower, except for Forretress, which is a passive piece of shit anyway that allows so many nothings to set up for free including Scizor lol, and this move is almost always carried on Band and Offensive SD sets, and Fires, with the exception of Infernape, get worn down very easily because of Stealth Rock, and Infernape is too frail to really be a consistent switch in, especially if Scizor has Superpower or U-Turn, and most Scizor sets contain at least one of these moves. It is also a very good offensive check to Aero and Terrakion. I would expand more, but Hilomilo already covered a lot of what Scizor does, so I would really recommend reading his post.

Conkeldurr is really good right now. It is a fantastic offensive check to Sharpedo and Bisharp, both of which can be very threatening to offensive teams. It also rips apart bulky teams, and drain punch allows it to get back a lot of its health. It's usage in UUPL just exemplifies how dangerous it is, and I think that A reflects how good it is in this meta.

I already talked about Hydreigon, don't feel like rehashing the points I already made lol. Keldeo is one that I'm a little iffy on, mostly because Specs is really threatening, but it does hate the rise of Latias a lot. Terrakion is just disappointing honestly. In theory it seems broken, but in reality it is just too hard for it to actually sweep any kind of team. Offensive teams don't leave it much room to actually set up, and even if it does, Scizor and Conkeldurr are always waiting to pick it off with priority. Nidoqueen is gaining traction, and it can easily tank any hit and knock out Terrakion. It just requires too much support to actually be an A rank imo, idk I've just been very underwhelmed by it since it was freed.

Don't really have an opinion on Infernape since I haven't really used it, but I do plan on using it more often, I'll comment on it later.
 

Kink

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S => A+

Yahhhhh Scizor isn't that good anymore. Can't really check/revenge kill what it wants to because shit like Latios and Celebi can just carry HP fire to deal with it. And imo it's swords dance set is really overrated, sure Tech boosted bullet punch is really cool, but it's no sucker punch, and steel/bug is shit offensively, being walled by like every fire type ever.

And am I the only one who realized how shit the rest of Scizor's stats are compared to it's attack?


wow
I can't tell if this is a serious post or not. Some small things first, I'm sure you meant Latias and not Latios, since Latios is not in the tier. Also, Iron Plate Bullet Punch is stronger and far more reliable than Sucker Punch, for reasons including but not limited to Sucker Punch's opportunity to fail and its limited PP. Moving on, Scizor has one of the best defensive typings in the UU metagame, with some mons being forced to run HP Fire to even hope to deal with it. Funny enough, however, even HP Fire users can get totally fucked since Occa Berry sets survive all HP Fire attacks from any mon (such as LO Latias) or stuff like Flamethrower Clefable, an often common lure for Scizor. Scizor also has the movepool it needs to carry out the job its team needs to. Bullet Punch, U-turn, Bug Bite, Knock Off, Pursuit, Superpower, Roost are all moves that contribute to a combination killer. Scizor also has a wide variety of sets to take advantage of: Choice Band, Iron Plate SD, LO SD, Bulky SD Variants, Bulky Defog, Choice Scarf. If you don't prepare for at least the first 4 sets, you're utterly screwed.

Based on the fact that you think Base Stats matter, I'm going to be very upfront and say you're making a huge mistake. Scizor counters and checks exactly what it needs to check, and there isn't a single mon out that can recklessly switch into a single Scizor set without risking a setup sweep or surrendering momentum. Base 80 Special Defence means nothing to me if Scizor can still switch into Draco Meteors and sweep. It's not a mon's Base Stat that matters, it's what a mon can do with its Base Stats in combination with its typing and movepool against the rest of the tier that really demonstrates a mon's viability. Steel/Bug is also an incredible offensive typing considering Scizor's diverse and highly effective movepool; considering we have like 3 usable Fire-Types in the tier, all of which risk losing to a +2 Iron Plate Bullet Punch if previous chip damage has occurred, this isn't really something Scizor needs to worry about when we apply the most basic team support.

All in all, Scizor is one of our most prominent threats and UU's token example of a solid dual setup sweeper/pivot, and I think you'll find it difficult to convince a single VR council member to drop it. Definitely keep it in S.
 
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I can't tell if this is a serious post or not. Some small things first, I'm sure you meant Latias and not Latios, since Latios is not in the tier. Also, Iron Plate Bullet Punch is stronger and far more reliable than Sucker Punch, for reasons including but not limited to Sucker Punch's opportunity to fail and its limited PP. Moving on, Scizor has one of the best defensive typings in the UU metagame, with some mons being forced to run HP Fire to even hope to deal with it. Funny enough, however, even HP Fire users can get totally fucked since Occa Berry sets survive all HP Fire attacks from any mon (such as LO Latias) or stuff like Flamethrower Clefable, an often common lure for Scizor. Scizor also has the movepool it needs to carry out the job its team needs to. Bullet Punch, U-turn, Bug Bite, Knock Off, Pursuit, Superpower, Roost are all moves that contribute to a combination killer. Scizor also has a wide variety of sets to take advantage of: Choice Band, Iron Plate SD, LO SD, Bulky SD Variants, Bulky Defog, Choice Scarf. If you don't prepare for at least the first 4 sets, you're utterly screwed.

Based on the fact that you think Base Stats matter, I'm going to be very upfront and say you're making a huge mistake. Scizor counters and checks exactly what it needs to check, and there isn't a single mon out that can recklessly switch into a single Scizor set without risking a setup sweep or surrendering momentum. Base 80 Special Defence means nothing to me if Scizor can still switch into Draco Meteors and sweep. It's not a mon's Base Stat that matters, it's what a mon can do with its Base Stats in combination with its typing and movepool against the rest of the tier that really demonstrates a mon's viability. Steel/Bug is also an incredible offensive typing considering Scizor's diverse and highly effective movepool; considering we have like 3 usable Fire-Types in the tier, all of which risk losing to a +2 Iron Plate Bullet Punch if previous chip damage has occurred, this isn't really something Scizor needs to worry about when we apply the most basic team support.

All in all, Scizor is one of our most prominent threats and UU's token example of a solid dual setup sweeper/pivot, and I think you'll find it difficult to convince a single VR council member to drop it. Definitely keep it in S.
Yah, I wasn't being serious about the base stat part, just thought I'd put that in for a bit of fun.

And no, bug bug/steel is shit offensively, considering it's resisted by 2 types, and only super effective against 265 pokemon (most dual typings have like 400). And you meantioned how Iron Plate Bullet Punch is stronger then Sucker Punch, well of course it's going to be stronger then sucker punch if it runs a plate. It isn't a fair comparison. And yes Occa Berry is a really good way to get around HP fire spam, but here's the problem, if it runs the berry, it can't run Life Orb, Leftovers, Choice Band, Iron Plate or whatever else, and even then Scizor can't free switch into the likes of Latia, Celebi and Clefable because they can predict the switch, burn the berry and then HP fire again, so yah 1v1 it really helps but it isn't 3HKO insurance. There are few more things I'd like to say, but I'll stop for now. These are just my thoughts on Scizor, feel free to tell me what you think is wrong.
 
Did you miss the part about it being a whole damn lot more reliable then Sucker Punch? It helps a lot with being able to freely use it without potentially having to play around basically guessing what the opponent will do. And Scizor's typing offensively is garbage? Really? In the UU tier, it's actually pretty damn nice, considering how many things are neutral or even weak to Bullet Punch, which, unlike most priority, has some actual power behind it to hurt things with, even the faster, frailer resists. Bug Bite also is a strong move, considering the Technician and STAB boost it gets, and lets Scizor muscle through the bulkier walls and pokemon that can take Bullet Punch with ease. And whatever other move it decides to run will generally be able to cover the things that neither Bullet Punch or Bug Bite will hit

You really seem to just be underselling Bug/Steel coverage in the meta we have in UU when it's honestly pretty damn good. Also, yes i suppose you could say that they can predict the Scizor switch-in and HP Fire.Flamethrower, but at the same time, that laos comes with the risk of not hitting Scizor and instead doing basically nothing in return to what decided to stay in or hell, even a non-scizor switch-in. Occa Berry still works quite well from what i can tell, and "prediction" really isn't something to hold against it
 

Kink

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Yah, I wasn't being serious about the base stat part, just thought I'd put that in for a bit of fun.

And no, bug bug/steel is shit offensively, considering it's resisted by 2 types, and only super effective against 265 pokemon (most dual typings have like 400). And you meantioned how Iron Plate Bullet Punch is stronger then Sucker Punch, well of course it's going to be stronger then sucker punch if it runs a plate. It isn't a fair comparison. And yes Occa Berry is a really good way to get around HP fire spam, but here's the problem, if it runs the berry, it can't run Life Orb, Leftovers, Choice Band, Iron Plate or whatever else, and even then Scizor can't free switch into the likes of Latia, Celebi and Clefable because they can predict the switch, burn the berry and then HP fire again, so yah 1v1 it really helps but it isn't 3HKO insurance. There are few more things I'd like to say, but I'll stop for now. These are just my thoughts on Scizor, feel free to tell me what you think is wrong.
The idea is they click Hidden Power Fire, you survive, and you OHKO with U-turn, leaving your Scizor to come in later and clean with Bullet Punch. It's simple and effective.

These numbers you're pulling out amuse me. 265? Do you mean out of the list of all Pokemon, Scizor is super effective against that many as opposed to 400 from other Dual-Type mon? If you're suggesting that the amount of total Pokemon Scizor has super-effective coverage against correlates to its viability, that's incorrect. It's also not relevant. You're bringing up some pretty unsalvageable points... we don't accept base stat totals and total super-effective coverage versus every Pokemon in existence as factors used to determine the viability of a Pokemon.

Viability is something that is determined through interplay. As Pokemon interact with each other, certain Pokemon demonstrate that they can work more effectively than other options. For example, last generation in ORAS, Florges was consistently more viable than Aromatisse due to the interaction between the their respective strengths and capabilities versus the other strong powerhouses. Ultimately, this resulted in Aromatisse not being used as often, lowering its overall viability. In this respect, there is no Pokemon in the tier that does Scizor's job better than Scizor. Scizor also needs no support for it to do the job that it is intended to do, because the other strong Pokemon in the tier - from their typing, to their movepool, to their abilities - compliment Scizor so well, that using it is almost completely brainless. The definition of an S rank Pokemon is that it helps dominate metagame trends and that it requires little-to-no support to effectively do what its role requires it to do. Scizor fits that mould perfectly. Any team can add Scizor and that team will likely be benefitted in some way depending on the set. If you don't bring something for Scizor, you're literally going to lose 33% of your games on matchup alone. That's what Scizor does. Let's take a super short case study - if I want to build with Scizor and a bulky Water-type, let's see what my options are:

Scizor + Swampert: Classic Fire check for Scizor, Swampert takes on a bulkier role of Rocks + Roar or toxic leaving Scizor to be able to take advantage of its natural offences or to further reinforce the team with its naturally good defensive typing with some sort of bulky set. In this case, Scizor can use every set possible in conjunction with Swampert.

Scizor + Keldeo: A super strong offensive combination, where not only Scizor can run any of its sets, but Keldeo can also be freed to run a Calm Mind set if Scizor opts to be Defog or Choice Band. Hell, you can run both Calm Mind and an SD set if opting for something more offensive, or run dual choiced for continuous pressure.

Scizor + Tentacruel: Another fantastic utility pairing allowing Scizor to go strictly offensive, since Tentacruel will take on the hazard control responsibilities. Pick any of Scizors fantastic sets and off with the winds. Tentacruel also checks Cobalion, a natural hard-check to Scizor.

Scizor + Mega Blastoise: A more offensive variant of the above set, where Mega Blastoise and Scizor team up to pressure stuff like Clefable and other prominent threats like Latias.

Scizor + Mantine: A slightly less reliable version of a utility pairing, but still effective enough to let Scizor take advantage of its offensive sets.

Scizor + Jellicent: Another take of the utility pairing, where Scizor can take advantage of any of its sets depending on the rest of team.

and that's just simple water type support from some of the more common options.
 

Adaam

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While I only played a bunch of ladder, I feel a bit more comfortable to comment on more pokemon. All my thoughts on Scizor have been expressed by King UU and Hilomilo (keep it in S!).

A to A-: Disagree. Bullet/Mach Punch sucks a lot for Terrakion, but that doesn't change the fact that it is completely unwallable. It's difficult to impossible for slower teams to deal with it with the advent of Z-Moves, which allow it to pick what few pokemon can live a +2 hit from 100%. Would be counters like Nidoqueen or Doublade can find themselves knocked out by LO boosted Earthquakes. Playing aggressively to prevent setup also does not work when you run balance or bulkier builds which carry multiple passive mons to take advantage of. Offense faces similar problems, except with Rock Polish. I disagree with the idea that Terrakion is easy to revenge kill by listing Choice Scarf pokemon. By definition, Scarf users are supposed to revenge kill, no Scarfer outspeeds a +2 Terrakion, and said Scarfers actually become liabilities with a Terrakion. Take Infernape, for example. It's forced to never click Flare Blitz due to giving Terrakion a free turn. Same with Krookodile's Knock Off/Pursuit (think pairing it with Latias), Hydreigon clicking anything, Gengar's Sludge Wave. Again, Scizor and Conk are super annoying for it, but even Scizor is exploitable if it gets locked into BP.

A- to A
: Agree. Pif's replays show the struggles fat teams have to go through to deal with it, while offensive teams often fail to OHKO it and have next to nothing to take Facades/Drain punches while suffering Mach Punches to stop would-be sweeps. I think the biggest boon for it, though, is the lack of powerful Flying types and bulky Psychics in the tier. I personally think Crobat is great, but others don't, and even so, Birds either have relatively low base Attack or are stuck with Wing Attack as its best STAB. As for Psychics, Cress is garbage now, Reuni has fallen, and Latias is too frail to take a Facade. Give Conk a rise.

Now for a nom not on the slate:
Unranked to C+/B-
Honestly, S/M has been amazing for Shaymin. Crobat is used a lot less, Mence is banned, Mamo, M-Bee, and M-Scep are gone, and we gained bulky Grounds in Hippo and Gliscor for Shaymin to abuse. Firing off free Seed Flares devastates any team lacking a Scizor (which is exploitable by HP Fire), as Grass resists tend to either be slower or fail to OHKO and face a potential follow-up Seed Flare at -2. A moveset of Seed Flare/HP Fire/Psychic (for Amoonguss) is enough to hit pretty much the entire tier hard while leaving the last slot free for either more coverage (which is unnecessary imo) or cool techs like Healing Wish or Tailwind. Things like competition with Celebi should not be factored into unranking it, since this was present in ORAS yet they did not cause Shaymin to fall unranked.

Everything else I am undecided or do not have enough info to make an opinion.
 

Lord Wallace

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Conk sounds fine at A-, its still criminally slow and as a result gets forced out easily by a lot of offensive threats due to Orb wearing on its bulk, (even if its much less now) including slower breakers like Primarina, Volcanion, and Nidoking who you do not want to be giving opportunities to be sent in if you can help it. Birds (particularly Talonflame) are also staples of HO teams in tours and higher ladder.

I agree with Forretress dropping, its kinda garbage at what a Steel type is supposed to do in UU right now due to a lack of recovery, garb offensive presence, and garb SDef. If your team so desperately needs the role compression Forry provides to even remotely justify it over Scizor consider just revising the team so you aren't needing rocks, spin, and your steel in one slot.

Keldeo doesn't have ways to subvert its checks? What? Last I checked Specs Icy Wind 2HKOes Latias and standard Amoonguss with Rocks (like 88% chance to 2hko in Amoon's case), HP Electric 2hkoes Slowbro, Starmie, and Primarina, and I guess if you really want to shit on the bulkier variants of Celebi Keldeo can afford to dedicate a slot to HP Bug. Because Scald burns arent as big a deal anymore for fat mons Choiced Keldeos can afford to drop it and just run one water STAB (Hydro or Surf), Sword, and two coverage moves (almost always a Hidden Power + Icy Wind). I'd agree that Scarf isn't that great and idk how good CM is but Specs Keldeo is still a premier breaker in UU and that sets merits plus Keldeo's defensive merits on offensive teams against mons like Bish and Scizor keep Keldeo in A+ imo.

Finally, and this one is more minor but can someone explain to me why Gigalith is in C but Rhyperior is unranked? Could just be an oversight but its not like UU is a tier with meta defining sand abusers akin to OU's Excadrill (unless you count Aero I guess) and Rhyperior has better offensive presence due to its STAB combo, access to Fire Punch to fuck up Scizor or Ice Punch as well if you fancy that instead, has access to Roar, similar physical bulk + solid rock, and has a niche as a serviceable bird counter on teams that don't benefit from Sand at all. I'd probably grant Rhyperior C-.
 
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pokemonisfun

Banned deucer.
Regarding Conkeldurr again, I don't have any strong opinion on the move to A although I'm probably leaning in favor for it for reasons that have been discussed at length. But the counter argument that it gets forced out by threats like Primarina and Nidoqueen - which offense often has no switch ins to - makes me at least hesitant to move him up to A.

Since I posted earlier about how Conkeldurr can dismantle some stall teams, I'm going to use this post to (re)introduce some defensive counters to Conkeldurr. I assume all Flame Orb Conkeldurr with run Facade / Drain Punch / Knock Off / Bulk Up / Mach Punch (4 out of these 5 obviously).


toge piss on ur fac (Togekiss) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Defog
- Roost
- Heal Bell

The EVs are to maximize physical bulk and outpace max speed Dhelmise (a major threat for stall teams, especially if they do not run Mandibuzz).

Unfortunately, a Guts boosted Facade still 2HKOs you, but unlike Clefable you can out speed Adamant Conkeldurr even with no investment and either stall it for a bit to put it in Air Slash range, or just go for the flinch. And again, Conkeldurr may very well have to take damage on the orb activation turn so it is in practice easy to put it in Air Slash range.

Unlike Clefable, Togekiss gives you an additional utility move (Defog) which helps teambuilding constraints because Togekiss is actually decent at its job in hazard control and cleric. I run Heal Bell on Togekiss because my Blissey set is Wish Protect and I feel Toxic and Seismic is too useful to forego. Unfortunately you are unable to counter CM Latias and opposing NP Togekiss, two of the top reasons to run Clefable on stall, so I pair it up with Steelix-regular to beat those threats, get another utility move (Stealth Rock), and block Volt Switches aimed at Togekiss.

Togekiss team: http://pokepast.es/c535c0ba752e8c72


moon goon (Cresselia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonlight
- Toxic
- Moonblast
- Skill Swap

The EVs are to maximize physical bulk and out speed Adamant Crawdaunt.

Cresselia may seeem awful in a metagame dominated by Scizor, Krookodile and other super effective moves. That intuition is ony half right, with the right support, Cresselia can make unique and useful contributions on defensive teams, first of all by being a good Conekldurr response which is unable to 2HKO you while you can heal or 2-3HKO back. Skill Swap is for certain Pokemon like Magic Guard Clefable and Swords Dance Gliscor, all of which can potentially pose a big threat to stall teams. Cresselia is less Pursuit bait than you might expect because it can stay in against Krookodile and Mega Aerodactyl pretty easily. Even CB Scizor, the only set that usually runs Pursuit, does not OHKO with CB U-turn which can be healed off.

Most people are familiar with Cresselia's problems: vulnerable to status, poor Recovery options, questionable defensive typing, and low offensive presence; all of these problems can be mitigated on stall teams like the one below (cleric support, Wish support/backup walls, backup walls, and more backup walls are in order the ways to mitigate the problems I just mentioned).

Cresselia team: http://pokepast.es/1e7c99134518bab2

Other defensive answers include (not limited to):
  • Gliscor - extremely hard to fit on stall because bad synergy with cleric support, but it does counter
  • Gligar - probably outclassed by Gliscor
  • Tentacruel - does not even check, but smart / lucky play with Drain Punch and Liquid Ooze can help put the timer on Conkeldurr
  • Granbull - eh....woofy woof has a niche. I guess.
  • Arcanine - I'm trying
  • Crobat - a check at best
  • Mandibuzz - physically defensive Brave Bird probably forces a trade
 
B+ → A-


Amoonguss is a pokémon that is
defensively a gem in UU, and is a golden choice as far as Balanced teams are concerned. With Spore will in most cases manage to disable one of the mon of the rival. Literally, a pokemon that Amoongus
sleeps is a pokemon that the rival will not use until mid-game, when he decides to sacrifice it or pray for him to wake up. And if you enemy sacrifice it and you have Amoonguss still alive, because you go in and use Spore again, it's crazy.

With Clear Smog you disable the rival setup. Pokemon enemies such as Suicune, Clefable, and Raikou are usually based on setup with boost moves to destroy the walls of the enemy and thus take advantage of the game. With Amoongus Clear Smog completely stop those strategies, eliminating the changes of statistics. Besides that by its
combination of types it is almost
impossible that the rival can defeat
Amoonguss before using Clear Smog.

Amoonguss is an excellent pivot, at the time of taking damage from attacks that could be dangerous for the rest of your team. With its Regenerator ability, recovering Amoonguss's health is as easy as taking him out of the field. This added to their combination of types makes it an important check against Choice users like Raikou, Scizor, Mienshao and Primarina, forcing them to change.

Among its disadvantages is its low base speed, to the point that practically always attack second, in addition to not having really great offensive ability. Yet he is defensively the king, and I think his place in Rank A- is well justified.






On the other hand, I agree with the drop of Hydreigon to A. Hydreigon is a pokémon that if you know to use it and take it to the field without major problems, can do damage. The set scarf is the best known, using revenge killer acceptable. The Set with choice specs, however, gives the computer something else, which is gross damage. Hydreigon Specs with Draco Meteor basically does OHKO to anything not very bulky that does not withstand the dragon type. Knowing to use it and not looking to put it to the first one of change, is practically to take to Hydreigon and to remove a pokemon to the enemy.

It is true that not using scarf pokemon as M-Aerodactyl, Raikou and Zygarde-10% overcome it in speed, but apart from that these pokemon do not beat him in 1v1 pulse anyway, this loss in speed is worth compared to the possibility of making OHKO to pokemon that otherwise would not OHKO. Dark Pulse by STAB and is a good move with which to hit hard without fearing the special attack descent, Earth Power stops those incoming Pokémon to resist Draco Meteor as Empoleon, and Flash Cannon to hit Clefable and Sylveon to change.
 
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