Suicune [QC 1/2] (writing)


QC: shaian
GP:

[OVERVIEW]
  • Suicune is a good user of Tailwind.
  • Its high bulk makes it difficult to be taken out, letting it set up Tailwind easier.
  • Suicune is mostly outclassed by Tapu Fini and Milotic in a supportive role, and is only used for Tailwind.
  • It doesn't appreciate common Electric types like Tapu Koko or Zapdos.
[SET]
name: Tailwind Support
move 1: Tailwind
move 2: Scald
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Snarl / Protect
item: Sitrus Berry
ability: Pressure
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 80 SpA / 64 SpD / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
  • Tailwind provides reliable speed control by doubling your team's speed for three turns.
  • Scald is a reliable Water attack that can inflict burns, which is handy for cutting the opponent's Attack stat.
  • Ice Beam allows Suicune to damage Dragon-types like Salamence and Zygarde or Grass-types like Tapu Bulu or Amoonguss.
  • Snarl weakens the opposing team by lowering the Special Attack of each Pokemon it hits.
  • Protect allows Suicune to avoid attacks for one turn, which is useful for avoiding Fake Out if trying to setup Tailwind.
  • Hydro Pump can be used over Scald for a stronger Water attack, but it's a bit less reliable and the extra power it offers is better reserved for offensive builds.
Set Details
========
  • Sitrus Berry lets Suicune survive repeated attacks easier, giving it a greater opportunity to set up Tailwind.
  • Pressure is Suicune's only available ability.
  • 56 Speed EVs lets Suicune outspeed max speed Deoxys-A while Tailwind is up.
  • 64 Special Defense EVs lets Suicune always survive two Thunderbolts from bulky Rotom-W.
  • 56 Defense EVs and a Bold nature lets Suicune always survive two Double Edges from 52 Attack EVs Mega Salamence.
  • HP is maxed out to take hits as well as possible.
  • The remaining EVs are placed into Special Attack to increase damage output.
  • A more offensive spread with 240 HP / 136 SpA / 132 Spe and a Modest nature can be used to maintain a greater offensive presence, always OHKOing Salamence and Landorus-Therian while outspeeding Scarf Tapu Lele under Tailwind and surviving two Seismic Tosses from Mega Kangaskhan.
Usage Tips
========
  • Once Suicune is sent out it's usually best to set up Tailwind as soon as possible.
  • Upon setting up Tailwind, Suicune can attack the opponent, lower their Special Attack with Snarl, or switch out for later if it hasn't taken much damage.
  • Attempt to outplay Taunt users like Tapu Lele, or simply switch out if you predict a Taunt.
  • Similarly, Fake Out can prevent Suicune from accomplishing its main role. Protect can let Suicune avoid taking unnecessary damage.
  • Do not freely use Snarl if the opponent has Milotic, as Competitive will increase its Special Attack instead of decreasing it.
Team Options
========
  • Suicune appreciates redirection or Fake Out support in order to set up a Tailwind successfully.
  • Mega Kangaskhan is the best Fake Out user and can make good use of Tailwind.
  • Slow and powerful teammates make great use of Tailwind. Heatran can take advantage of Tailwind to fire off powerful Heat Waves and checking Tapu Bulu and Amoonguss. Similarly, Landorus-T can use fast Rock Slides to fish for flinches. Powerful attackers like Mega Metagross and Tapu Lele can take advantage of the boosted speed to obliterate targets.
[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
  • Icy Wind can be used to lowering the opposing team's Speed, but it's redundant with Tailwind, which is the main reason to use Suicune.
  • Psychic Seed can be used to take advantage of Tapu Lele, letting it always take two Life Orb Psychics, but Tapu Lele will typically Taunt Suicune either way.
  • Roar lets Suicune disrupt opponent's positioning and potentially prevent Trick Room from going up.
  • Mirror Coat lets Suicune knock out an opponent if its hit with a special attack, but it's prediction-reliant and often only works once.
Checks and Counters
===================

**Electric-Types**: Common Electric-types like Tapu Koko, Zapdos, and Rotom-W can hit Suicune hard with their Electric moves. Tapu Koko can OHKO Suicune with Thunderbolt if it holds a Life Orb, completely preventing it from accomplishing anything. Zapdos can set up its own Tailwind to counteract Suicune's as well as potentially 2HKO with Thunderbolt. Suicune can hit back with Ice Beam, but it doesn't do much. Rotom-W resists Suicune's attacks and can use Thunderbolt to deal considerable damage.

**Grass-Types**: Grass-types like Tapu Bulu, Shaymin-S, and Amoonguss can hit Suicune with super effective Grass moves. Tapu Bulu and Amoonguss have the bulk to take Ice Beams, and Tapu Bulu can deal considerable damage back while Amoonguss can use Spore or Rage Powder to limit Suicune's effectiveness. Shaymin-S is OHKO'd by Ice Beam, but outside of Tailwind, it can use Seed Flare to deal considerable damage before Suicune can move.

**Water-Types**: Water-types resist Suicune's attacks and can wall it. Tapu Fini takes very little from Scald and Ice Beam and can beat Suicune with Calm Mind and Moonblast. Milotic punishes Suicune for using Snarl, and thanks to Recover can wall Suicune indefinitely. Azumarill can set up a Belly Drum against Suicune, but a Scald burn cuts its effectiveness.

**Taunt**: Taunt users like Tapu Lele or Mega Gengar can completely prevent Suicune from setting up Tailwind, limiting its effectiveness, although the Suicune user can predict this.

**Fake Out**: Fake Out can hinder Suicune's ability to set up Tailwind. Common Fake Out users like Mega Kangaskhan and Scrafty can prevent Suicune from setting up Tailwind for one turn.

**Mega Charizard-Y**: Mega Charizard-Y completely hinders Suicune with its sun, cutting the power of its Hydro Pump. It can hit Suicune with repeated Solar Beams to knock it out or use its own Tailwind to counteract Suicune's.
 
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QC ready. I'll let someone more experienced tell me whether an offensive or bulky spread should be the main one listed.
 
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Pocket

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For the offensive Suicune set I prefer 240 HP / 136 SpA / 132 Spe, Modest Nature. HP hits 401 to survive 2 SToss from Kangaskhan. Enough SpA to OHKO min HP Salamence and Lando-T. Enough Speed to outrun Scarf Tapu Lele / Kyurem-B in Tailwind

Roar and Mirror Coat should be added to OO. Roar is nice to disrupt the opponent's board position / prevent TR set up. Mirror Coat actually allows Suicune to eliminate threats.
 

GenOne

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In the overview, it's a bit of a stretch imo to say Suicune is "among the best users of Tailwind"; Zapdos objectively takes that title, and Suicune is currently a Tier 4 Pokemon that doesn't really see a lot of use in the meta.

I'll leave this comment for QC's discreation, but under Team Options, pretty much every Pokemon benefits from redirection, so I'm not sure how relevant your first bullet point is. Further down, however, your mention of Amoonguss redirecting Electric attacks is nice. It might be worth mentioning too that Amoonguss can deter Tapu Bulu with Sludge Bomb, while Suicune can clear out threats like Mega Salamence with Ice Beam -- in a nutshell, Amoonguss and Suicune have decent synergy.

**Water-types** should be mentioned in Checks and Counters imo, since all the relevant Water-types (Fini, Milotic, etc.) completely wall Suicune's offensive coverage. Fini threatens to hit back with Moonblast, while Milotic prevents you from spamming Snarl.

In Other Options, a set consisting of Calm Mind + Leftovers might be worth mentioning. Tapu Fini admittedly outclasses Suicune as a Calm Mind user this gen, but in ORAS Suicune basically pioneered the CM set we see Fini using in SM.
 

shaian

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don't put CM Cune in OO lol, dont put amoong in team options cuz everyone likes redirection AND MOST IMPORTANTLY if you have amoong and cune out at the same time you've literally lost all semblance of offense so ur kinda dicked until one of them gets off the board

in general flesh out team options a bit more with the likes of tran, lando, lele, gross, etc

and in ur writeup make sure to stress how underwhelming it is as a twind user and special attacker IE DONT USE "BATTER YOUR OPPONENTS" because suicune does not hit that hard lol

1/2
 

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