Sweet {Double Peak, Non-Standard HO}

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Sweet


http://www.smogon.com/forums/attachments/steeell-png.6208/
I am #2 with this team under the alt DracoMaster Steel. I also used it on Steel(Parentheses)'s ladder run.
(Remember when I said I was done with fifth-generation RMTs? I lied.)

Hello everyone, Steelskitty here. Some of you may know me as a skilled battler in the fifth generation, who, in spite of a lack of glitzy tournament victories, manages to distinguish himself through ladder peaks and victories versus top players (ranging from HSA to Hack He Must to even Polop). Others may think of me as an overrated, cocky player who takes himself way too seriously. Still others may know of me from my recent invitation into the strong Dracomasters Clan. Regardless of what you know me by, however, I have come to present one of my most effective, original Generation 5 Ubers teams thus far.

I’m RMTing this for two purposes—1: to take credit for the recent similar teams popping up and 2: to prove Dice, who criticized me for using “Bog standard builds” that he was “using before I even started playing competitively”, wrong. Sweet uses absolutely zero “standard” spreads (with the only Smogon set being used on Genesect), while still presenting a fairly original concept for a team. This team has served me well for a while now, and with X and Y having been out for a few months, I think it’s time that I turned my attention to other ideas, anyway.
Now that I’ve introduced myself and explained why I’m publishing this, here is the build in its current form:

It didn't start out quite like this, however. Sweet was created through a ridiculous amount of tweaks and deletions of a past sun team, the first draft of which I still have (http://pastebin.com/uBeJM5Wa).

Now, the team wasn't very good in this format. It was my first decent attempt at suicide lead offense, and consequently featured many outdated/bad sets, such as All-Attacks-Groudon and Specs Dialga. At first I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with it, but eventually I realized that Specs Dialga not only lacked the support it needed to tear through teams, but it consistently killed my momentum and provided a lackluster performance versus any well-built team due to its inability to switch moves. After noticing the damage a threat such as Arceus-Ghost could do, I dropped it for a Substitute+Nasty Plot Darkrai.

Upon returning to the team a month or two later, I made several tweaks that would make the team more suited to laddering but also make it a lot worse in more serious matches. I gave Deoxys-Attack Spikes in place of Stealth Rock, and transferred Stealth Rock to a Jolly Earth Plate Groudon. I dropped Latios for Roar+3 Attacks Latias, upon witnessing the damage a Scarf Palkia could do. Also, I used an incredibly gimmicky Lum Berry Darkrai set that was designed to beat opposing Darkrais and beat status Pokémon by switching in and forcing them out due to the threat of sleep (Please don’t ever use that set).

The team stayed in that format for a while, but eventually I found ways to further improve upon it. Physical Genesect was dropped for Special Genesect when it occurred to me that I really didn’t need the physical variant. Deoxys-Attack was replaced for Deoxys-Speed, which let me run a more offensively inclined Groudon as opposed to the Stealth Rock variant I had. Arceus-Ghost’s moveset was modified slightly to beat opposing Deoxys-S, and the final change was to edit Darkrai’s set from Substitute+Salac Berry to something that fixed the final weakness of the team. Here is Sweet, in-depth:


Deo-S (Deoxys-Speed) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 188 Def / 68 SDef / 252 HP
Bold Nature
Hidden Power [Fire] / Spikes / Stealth Rock / Taunt

(Credit goes to the user Anikrahman1995 for this set)

Until I saw this set, I really used to hate Deoxys-Speed. Deoxys-Attack was my preferred hazard setter, due to its ability to easily beat other leads and frustrate a significant portion of the Metagame depending on what coverage it ran. However, this has several distinct advantages over Deoxys-A— it has space for both Spikes and Stealth Rock, a gigantic difference in bulk, the ability to fit Taunt and not be bad, and the ability to run items other than Focus Sash whilst sitting at around the same speed as Deoxys-Attack (yes, this means that Scarf Kyogre outspeeds you, but I seriously hope that nobody is dumb enough to lead with a Scarf Kyogre versus any normal Deoxys-Speed). Rocky Helmet looks incredibly bizarre at first glance, but the idea is to get massive chip damage on things that try to anti-lead Deoxys-Speed. Common plays such as leading with an Extremekiller Arceus or Giratina-Origin to limit you to one hazard will fail miserably as both sets lose over a third of their health after they attack, while you have the bulk to set up hazards. Observe the following calcs:

Standard Giratina-Origin: 252+ Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-O Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Deoxys-S: 134-158 (44.07 - 51.97%) -- 10.94% chance to 2HKO

Standard Extremekiller: 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus-Normal ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Deoxys-S: 133-157 (43.75 - 51.64%) -- 8.98% chance to 2HKO

Standard Genesect: 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Deoxys-S: 176-210 (57.89 - 69.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Physical Deoxys-Attack: 252 Atk Deoxys-A ExtremeSpeed vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Deoxys-S: 91-108 (29.93 - 35.52%) -- 29.93% chance to 3HKO

Standard Tyranitar: 76 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Deoxys-S: 194-230 (63.81 - 75.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO--

Ferrothorn (lol): 48 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Deoxys-S: 132-156 (43.42 - 51.31%) -- 4.69% chance to 2HKO

As you can see, this is great at shutting down a significant portion of anti-leads, and even if the opponent has some idea as to your set the additional bulk may still surprise them (this can even safely lead versus Tyranitar!). The moves themselves are absolutely standard: Stealth Rock is obligatory, Spikes are great hazards, Taunt shuts down things silly enough to set up on you (though it’s generally preferred to lay hazards first versus things such as Groudon, as this team really, really wants hazard support, otherwise it will be bad), and Hidden Power Fire is almost never used, as you can’t outspeed Genesect. Maybe if you’re lucky, you can hit an Excadrill with it on the switchin.


Rai (Darkrai) @ Life Orb
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
Dark Void / Taunt / Focus Blast / Dark Pulse

Darkrai is one of my personal favorite Pokémon in Ubers. It has the ability to either be an almost-uncounterable immediate threat due to the combination of Dark Void/Taunt/Focus Blast shutting down sleep fodder and typical switchins, or it can be a sweeper due to its access to Nasty Plot and that game-breaking 80% accurate sleep move that eases setup. This set was inspired by a play the user Hyw used to make: he would sleep the opponent’s sleep fodder mid-game, then bring in a still-alive Deoxys-Speed and Taunt that sleep fodder, preventing it from using Sleep Talk and granting him an extra layer of hazards or two. The downside of this play was that it involved a proverbial dice roll with bringing in Deoxys-S on a sleeping threat—if it woke up as he switched in, he would lose Deoxys-Speed to a surprise attack at almost no cost to his opponent (barring the switch advantage he could presumably get from sacrificing Deoxys-Speed). After witnessing Sweep use a similar set on Donkey’s team and hearing how Melee Mewtwo listed Taunt as a viable move on Darkrai in a Q/A thread (and claiming that he wouldn’t like you if you used that move on Darkrai), I decided to try it out.

Set and spread-wise, this is similar to Thunder Wave Darkrai. Dark Void instantly cripples a threat and is comparable to getting a free kill on something in Generation 5 due to the sleep mechanics. Taunt shuts down anything with Sleep Talk, while also being nice versus things such as Ferrothorn due to its ability to force it to switch out or fire off a weak attack as you switch. Focus Blast is best with proper prediction, as it gets a clean 2HKO on a switchin such as Genesect (252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Genesect: 204-240 (72.08 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Dark Pulse isn’t used as often as it would be on any other Darkrai, but it’s still the best option for reliable damage and for hitting Arceus-Ghost and Giratina-Origin.

This set fixes two issues that Sweet previously had—a fast Choice Band Ho-oh could come in on Darkrai, take sleep, and immensely threaten the rest of the team. However, now I can put the Ho-oh to sleep then Taunt it the turn after, rendering the Firebird completely helpless as Darkrai Focus Blasts a predicted switchin. Also, it prevents Lum Extremekiller Arceus from setting up on Darkrai and leaving a gigantic dent in the team as a result of that. Due to its ability to force out sleep fodder and then force that out as it gets Taunted (and/or cleanly OHKO fast sleep fodder such as Scarf Dialga with a predicted Focus Blast), Darkrai is one of the best abusers of Spikes in the game, and this makes it one of the most irreplaceable members of Sweet.


Gene (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Satk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
Naïve Nature
U-turn / Bug Buzz / Flamethrower / Ice Beam

There isn’t that much to say about Special Genesect. It’s an old standby on sun teams that supposedly cleans better than Physical Genesect, while providing just enough Satk investment to greatly frustrate usual switchins such as Dialga (which it 2HKOs with +Satk Sun Flamethrower). The really great thing about this variant of the Speedy Scizor is that most people EV their Pokémon so that Genesect gets the special attack boost versus them, meaning that Genesect has no problem abusing its three special attacks with ease. One may question why I’m not using Physical Genesect here, but, really—why should I?

This is my U-turn sponge, and is also what I use for scouting and forcing switches versus threats such as opposing Darkrai. Bug Buzz cleanly OHKOs any properly-EV’d Darkrai and Mewtwo, while 2HKOing Extremekiller Arceus after Stealth Rock (assuming +Satk, meaning it can’t set up). Flamethrower has the same effective power as Bug Buzz under sun, except it hits different targets such as opposing Genesect. Ice Beam has a little more use than it does on Physical Genesect, as it hits Groudon and Giratina-Origin for significant damage.


Donners (Groudon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 236 Atk / 240 Spd / 32 HP
Adamant Nature
Rock Polish / Earthquake / Stone Edge / Fire Punch

Here we have one of my all-time personal favorite cleaners from the B/W 2 era. Ever since I first used this on a double weather team I created a while ago, I fell in love with it. The ability to support the team early-game by instantly OHKOing things that think they can stay in on you and clean up after the opponent’s team has been torn apart by Spikes is just too good to pass up. Rock Polish Groudon also threatens most forms of rain while ripping through paper-thin Hyper Offense with ease. And, it also soft-checks weather abusers such as Excadrill and Kingdra, which would otherwise pose a huge threat to Sweet. The EVs allow you to hit a Life Orb number—meaning you can attack once more before fainting— while the Speed ensures that you outspeed Offensive Excadrill under sand at +2. The lack of Atk EVs makes no significant difference overall in terms of KOs achieved.

Rock Polish enables Groudon to outspeed and beat many threats that only win due to them outspeeding Groudon unboosted; this includes Kyurem-White, Shaymin-Sky, Darkrai, Support Arceus-Rock, Rayquaza, and even Scarf Kyogre. Earthquake is incredibly strong when backed by STAB, Life Orb, and a colossal 140 Base Atk. Stone Edge hits Ho-oh, Rayquaza, and weakened Latios/as, though it is much weaker than Earthquake. Fire Punch is chosen over Dragon Claw because I feel that Groudon threatens balanced teams more greatly with Fire Punch, as it enables it to hit Skarmory, cleanly OHKO Air Balloon Excadrill, and break Gliscor’s substitutes in one hit with sun. Dragon Claw is a fine alternative for hitting Latias and more reliably dealing with Rayquaza and Giratina-Origin, but is unnecessary here due to how none of those threaten this team that greatly.


Ghosty (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
Swords Dance / Shadow Claw / Brick Break / Extreme Speed

Tearing through teams with the might of a thousand hellhounds, the spectral form of Arceus is here and ready to wreak havoc. Arceus boasts the highest BST out of any Generation 5 Pokémon, and its two key immunities coupled with colossal bulk grant many opportunities to set up a Swords Dance. Depressingly enough, however, this isn’t as strong as it could be. It can't run a +Atk Nature, as speed tying with other Arceus and outspeeding things such as Latias is mandatory. Also, its main STAB option is a 70 Base Power attack. Still, this is an effective lure and its low Base-Power moves are made up for somewhat with the Spikes support.

Swords Dance is necessary to boost attack, and Ghosty finds plenty of opportunities to use it. Shadow Claw is STAB, and its chosen over Shadow Force due to how Shadow Force can be played around, and how it can't anti-lead opposing Deoxys-S with Shadow Force. Brick Break is for normal types such as Normal Arceus, and Extremespeed is good as priority. Arceus-Ghost has the ability to set up on a weakened Extremekiller Arceus and countersweep it, and is one of my three main soft checks to it.


Lati (Latias) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 SAtk / 52 SDef / 24 HP
Timid Nature
Draco Meteor / Psyshock / Hidden Power [Fire] / Roar

Latias is a really cute cat-dragon..... thing, but that doesn't mean it isn't capable of dishing out hits. It's essentially this team's defensive backbone, and is what I need to prevent special dragons and Kyogre from steamrolling me. Latias is great for forcing out slower dragons barring Dialga, thanks to its high speed tier, and it can also live a hit from specially oriented Scarf Dragons if necessary. This set probably requires some explanation, so here we go:

180 Speed with Timid hits the benchmark of outspeeding Palkia, given your Hidden Power IV. It can be moved up a bit to outspeed Defensive Fightceus that's EV'd to outspeed Palkia, if you're really paranoid about that sort of thing. 252 Satk is to hit as hard as possible with your two STABs and steel coverage, and Latias really likes having as much power as possible. The remaining EVs are dumped into Sdef and HP to somewhat comfortably take a spacial rend from Scarf Palkia, and anything else if it comes down to that.

As for the moves, Draco Meteor is nice as STAB, and is preferred over Dragon Pulse as Dragon Pulse is just generally weak. Psyshock complements it and hits targets such as Chansey, Arceus-Fighting, and Ho-oh, while also being the move of choice versus Kyogre. Hidden Power Fire OHKOs Genesect on the switchin, and is just generally nice for steel types, given the Pseudo-STAB granted by sun. Roar is ideal so threats are incapable of setting up on you at -2, and it rewards proper prediction by getting hazard damage. A fun play to make is to use Roar on a Giratina-A that thinks it can come in on a -2 Latias, and phaze it before it can phaze you.

Replays:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-71564972 Sun>Hack.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oriserver-gen5ubers-63367 This demonstrates Forretress' undeniable utility and utterly fantastic hazard prevention for Ho-oh sun.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-71811797 Another match showcasing Forretress' ability to prevent Stealth Rock. Also, Taunt Darkrai sees some use.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-71797802 This match shows how I deal with some bizarre threats. Rock Polish Groudon is great in endgames.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen5ubers-72099173 How not to Anti-lead Deoxys-Speed.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oriserver-gen5ubers-63389 Here's a match vs my good buddy Polop when I still had Substitute+Nasty Plot Darkrai on Sweet.

In Conclusion:
So, yeah. That's my team. Feel free to comment, rate, steal, steel, whatever. I really need to get into X and Y, so don't expect me to be playing that much generation 5 after I peak after the server resets. In all seriousness though, have fun with this. This is probably the best team I've created, and I apologize for not having more replays vs well-known players :(

Shout-Outs and Stuff:
Kebabe: Shakespeare
Melee Mewtwo: Eevees suck
Hack He Must: Teach me how to predict misses :(
Sweep: OMASTER. There, I said it.
Ogasian: Chill
Blue Jay: best bird
Haruno: http://pastebin.com/VQ2jupFw :)
Polop: Learn to rap... Actually, don't.
Kingmidas: go play with ur Pawniard u hoe
Blackstardust: LOL
Donkey: Don't worry, I wouldn't actually punch my internet.
Hyw: You really need to join Smogon...
Hydra: ^
ThisMysteriousGuy: Thanks for being basically the first mentor I ever had, and still being up for the occasional match every now and then.
ZoroarkForever: I'd say that your team was kind of the inspiration for this one, but I made mine first.... whatever, you're still cool lol.
Vileman: Such noob, very wow.
Anikrahman1995: Latios <3
Orch: I run recovery on Skarmory now.
CarbonTheSecond: The man of 136 alts.
Piexplode: Noob, but not for life (hopefully!!)
xDesch: Screw your Overcoat Forretress

Okay, I think that's pretty much every one I talk to/know/hate on.

See ya in Generation 6.

Importable:

Deo-S (Deoxys-Speed) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 188 Def / 68 SDef / 252 HP
Bold Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Donners (Groudon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 236 Atk / 240 Spd / 32 HP
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Fire Punch

Rai (Darkrai) @ Life Orb
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Taunt
- Focus Blast
- Dark Pulse

Ghosty (Arceus-Ghost) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Brick Break
- Extreme Speed

Gene (Genesect) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Bug Buzz
- Flamethrower
- Ice Beam

Lati (Latias) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 180 Spd / 252 SAtk / 52 SDef / 24 HP
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Roar
 
Last edited:

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Note that I use a lot of gifs in the threatlist, so I wouldn't advise looking at it if you're on a mobile device.
This attempts to be as comprehensive as possible, and details how to deal with most relevant threats in the Ubers Metagame. I have only included commonly used Arceus forms and tried avoid repetition (I.e., I could include Psychic and Dark Arceus but they are uncommon and dealt with in the same way as Grass Arceus), but other than that it covers most Pokémon viable in Ubers.


Arceus-Normal (Extremekiller): More threatening in theory than in practice. It is incapable of setting up on anything bar Genesect locked into Ice Beam or sun-less Flamethrower, unless you imply harsh conditions like “Last Pokémon Standing versus -2 Latias” (Which doesn’t really happen, as Latias rarely survives until the endgame). Deoxys-S taunts it, Darkrai taunts it, Groudon 2HKOs it, Latias Roars it, Genesect can overpower it, and Arceus-Ghost countersweeps sane variants (Shadow Force sucks).

Arceus-Normal (Wallceus): If I actually see somebody using this, I’ll write up how to deal with it.


Arceus-Ghost (Calm Mind): Darkrai checks it indefinitely. Groudon can take a hit if necessary, and Genesect can try to win vs it. If somehow you let all of these checks die, your own Arceus-Ghost can try to speed tie and finish off a weakened one. If it carries Substitute and manages to get one up, the match becomes instantly more difficult. Its Substitute/CM set alone makes me want to run Physical Genesect here.

Arceus-Ghost (Swords Dance): Darkrai checks it unless Darkrai is low on health, in which case it may fall to Extremespeed. Genesect is great at Revenge Killing with sunny Flamethrower, and again, Groudon can take a hit if necessary.

Arceus-Ghost (Support): Darkrai, Genesect. Groudon can’t win as it typically carries Will-o-Wisp.


Arceus-Fighting (Utility Counter): Latias is a great check, but be wary of Thunder Wave variants. Arceus-Ghost sets up on it, but Toxic will suck. In the worst-case scenario, Darkrai can be brought in to outspeed and put it to sleep.

Arceus-Fighting (Calm Mind): Latias deals with this even better than it deals with the utility counter. Arceus-Ghost sets up nicely, unless Arceus-Fighting carries Dark Pulse. As is the case with all Arceus barring Extremekiller, Darkrai can be brought in to put it to sleep.


Arceus-Grass (Support): One of the least-threatening Pokémon to this team due to its inability to switch in for free versus anything (Groudon Fire Punches it, Darkrai Dark Voids, Genesect wins versus even the Max HP variant due to Bug Buzz, it can’t hurt Latias which 2HKOs with HP Fire in Sun, and Arceus-Ghost sets up on those lacking Will-o-wisp). It generally spreads status like Thunder Wave, so the worst it usually does is paralyze or poison Latias.

Arceus-Grass (Calm Mind): One of the worst Calm Mind Arceus forms, it is checked indefinitely by Genesect and Darkrai can put it to sleep in a worst-case scenario.


Arceus-Rock (Mono-Calm Mind): This is annoying in sand, but otherwise manageable. Darkrai typically has to beat it with either Sleep or Focus Blast.

Arceus-Rock (Support): Latias is a good switchin to scout its move, but Darkrai is preferred for actually dealing with it.


Arceus-Steel (Calm Mind): Latias can switch in and Roar it out if it should accumulate too many boosts. Groudon takes care of Will-o-Wisp-less variants, even though it sustains huge damage in the process. Genesect’s sunny Flamethrower disposes of it if it hasn’t set up too much. As always, Darkrai is a go-to answer even though it cannot switch in.

Arceus-Steel (Swords Dance): Groudon deals with it, even though you are forced to switch into Latias if you don’t know its set. Genesect wins with Flamethrower, assuming clear or sunny weather, and Darkrai wins unless it’s weakened versus Extremespeed variants or Dark Void/Focus Blast misses.

Arceus-Steel (Support): Latias and Genesect win under direct sunlight. I feel obligated to mention Darkrai, as, like every other defensively-inclined Arceus, it will win here. Groudon can attempt to set up, even though it doesn’t enjoy taking a Judgment or Ice Beam and downright hates it if it runs Will-o-wisp.


Kyogre (Choice Specs): As I pack nothing barring a soft check to it in Latias, it seems threatening at first glance. However, I have a borderline two guaranteed hazards to take off a quarter of its health and therefore nerf its Water Spout every time it switches in. Also, most everything outspeeds it.

Kyogre (Choice Scarf): Only a threat if your opponent is dumb enough to lead off with it versus Deoxys-Speed. If they do, the match suddenly becomes a massive uphill battle as you are deprived of hazards, and Latias has no help checking it. Groudon can barely take everything barring a full-power Water Spout in sunlight if necessary. Genesect is unreliable as it only 3HKOs this variant.

Kyogre (Bulky ResTalk): Terrorized by Darkrai if it switches in to take sleep. Latias deals with this quite nicely, and Groudon can 2HKO it if necessary.


Genesect (All Choice Scarf Variants, Choice Band): I deal with this by using a combination of hazards and my own Genesect and Arceus-Ghost as U-turn sponges. It only gets +Atk versus Latias, which means that it can’t wear the team down easily by switching in and out. Note that a healthy Deoxys-Speed can be brought in to take a potential U-turn and get up a layer of hazards mid-game, if the situation calls for it. Also, if it predicts the switchin to my own Genesect with Flamethrower, it invariably gives Latias a free turn.

Genesect (Rock Polish/Shift Gear): Groudon is the primary method of dealing with this if it somehow manages to set up. Your own Genesect can take care of it if it lacks a Fire Move. Arceus-Ghost can finish off a weakened one.


Smeargle (Smashpasser): Lead with Darkrai, then Dark Void. If it has Magic Coat, the move will bounce back and put Darkrai to sleep, meaning that it can’t Spore your switchin. Switch to Latias as it sets up a Shell Smash, and Roar it out as it Baton Passes. From there the game becomes about getting a hazard or two up with Deoxys-Speed and facilitating a Rock Polish Groudon or Arceus-Ghost sweep.

Smeargle (Hazard Lead): Seriously, screw this set. You can’t really predict it ahead of time, so you’re kind of forced to follow the same procedure as with the Smashpasser. If you do know it, however, just lead with Darkrai and Dark Pulse, as they will likely Magic Coat you.


Dialga (Bulky SR): Groudon OHKOs this, and Darkrai can put it to sleep and/or Focus Blast it.

Dialga (Life Orb SR): It will outspeed Groudon and OHKO it, but the instant you see it, don’t hesitate to bring in Darkrai and gain momentum from there.

Dialga (Choice Scarf): One of the biggest threats to this team and Deoxys-Speed teams in general. Typically I need to predict it switching into Darkrai and OHKO with a Focus Blast, but I can also wear it down with spikes. Latias can take anything barring a full-power Draco Meteor and retaliate. If you set up with Rock Polish Groudon versus the sort of team you usually see Scarf Dialga on, your life becomes much easier.

Dialga (BU+ResTalk): Darkrai terrorizes it, and Groudon instantly shuts it down. Everything else is unreliable.

Dialga (Smashpass Recipient): There is no way of dealing with this at +2/+2/+2. Just bring in Latias before it boosts or attempt setup with Arceus-Ghost versus a weakened one, and sweep their smashpass.

Dialga (Trick Room): I’ve only seen one or two of these in my competitive career, but it’s similar to the smashpass recipient: there is no way of dealing with it in its favorite condition (Trick Room). You have to choke the setup of the move and play from there.


Palkia (Lustrous Orb/Haban Berry): Not especially threatening. Latias deals with it nicely, Genesect forces it to switch and wears it down, and Darkrai can put it to sleep if absolutely necessary.

Palkia (Choice Specs): Don’t give it free turns.

Palkia (Choice Scarf): A bigger threat than the Lustrous variant. Frustrating as it outspeeds Genesect, though it’s almost always obvious what variant it is from the team preview. Latias is on the team specifically to take a hit from this, and Groudon can also take a hit, set up, and try to countersweep it.

Palkia (Trick Room): Latias takes a single hit and kills it from there, but it will lose to Haban TRalkia. Groudon can also take a single hit. But seriously, just pressure it so it can’t set up.


Latios (All-Out-Attacker): Half the team is able to deal with this nicely, but the other half simply hates it. Typically, winning versus Latios comes down to thinking three or four turns ahead and not letting it come in on something such as a Groudon that hasn’t set up, or a -2 Latias. For instance—You can kill a Dialga with Groudon, but if Latios comes in the turn after that and pulverizes Groudon, it isn’t worth it. In a scenario such as that, it would be better to use Darkrai. If you miss-predict, you may have to switch Genesect in on it, but that takes colossal damage from all of Latios’ coverage barring Grass Knot.

Latios (Dragon Dance): Seriously, this thing isn’t niche. It again comes down to not giving it a free turn. Arceus-Ghost is able to take anything it has and OHKO back with Shadow Claw, but other than that, it’s massively threatening if it sets up.

Latios (Calm Mind+Draco Meteor): Same procedure as the All-Out-Attacker and Dragon Dance variants. This is the most easy to deal with, as it might end up Calm-Minding on a potential Genesect switchin, and being forced to switch out.


Latias (Offensive Variant): A less-threatening Latios with slightly more bulk. Genesect can switch in on anything barring Hidden Power Fire, though a predicted Thunder will suck.

Latias (Wall/Support): Genesect just continually switches in, unless it has Thunder Wave or something like that (even then, it still switches in, except you just basically lose your scarfer’s utility).

Latias (Calm Mind+Draco Meteor): G e n e s e c t ! It’s fun to switch it in as Latias sets up a Calm Mind.


Giratina-O (Physically Biased Defensive/Magic Coat): For clarification, this is the set that runs Attack, HP and/or Defense, with a lot of Speedcreep. If it tries to anti-lead Deoxys-Speed with Magic Coat, there’s no reason not to just spam Stealth Rock until it runs out of Magic Coat PP. If it Shadow Sneaks Deo-S, it only has a very slim chance of 2HKOing, meaning it will most likely take three rounds of Rocky Helmet damage and become much easier to deal with later.

This set is the sole reason why Darkrai must be wary of Dark Voiding Giratina-Origin. Typically Darkrai has to Dark Pulse it, though this just barely doesn’t OHKO. Latias can take a Shadow Sneak if it has to and OHKO with Draco Meteor, and Arceus-Ghost also 2HKOs with Shadow Claw (though Shadow Sneak typically ends up depriving it of a chance to sweep later). Genesect kills it off with Ice Beam if it’s at low enough health (usually 70%-ish).

Giratina-O (SubShuffler): If you know it isn’t the Magic Coat variant, Darkrai shuts it down. Very similar to the Magic Coat variant, except incredibly frustrating once it gets up a substitute. On the plus side, this lacks space for Hidden Power Fire, meaning Genesect can Ice Beam it. Genesect usually ends up having to take a Will-o-Wisp to do this, but its primary STAB is special, so that isn’t much of an issue.

Giratina-O (ResTalk Shuffler): A non-issue. Latias OHKOs it, Darkrai Taunts it in its sleep, Deoxys-S sets up on it, and Genesect can 2HKO with Ice Beam.

Giratina-O (SubCM): More annoying than the SubShuffler once it gets up a substitute, due to its ability to boost up and increase its Sdef. If this should happen to safely get a substitute up and boost, typically something must be sacrificed to it so Darkrai can come back in and regain momentum.

Giratina-O (Mono-Attacker): Slightly more threatening than the ResTalk Shuffler. Darkrai utterly shuts it down, and Latias can dispose of it if Giratina hasn’t acquired too many boosts.


Giratina-A (PhysDef Wall): Latias Roars it, Darkrai beats it, Deoxys-S sets up on it.

Giratina-A (Sdef Wall): Latias Roars it, Darkrai beats it, Deoxys-S sets up on it.

Giratina-A (Boosting Tank): Not even relevant, to be honest. If your opponent is using this, they’re probably incompetent and you can expect an easy match.


Groudon (Earth Plate): It can’t really switch in on anything, and doesn’t want to lead versus Deoxys-Speed, so pressuring it isn’t all that difficult. Genesect gets a OHKO after Stealth Rock (+1 252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 320-378 (93.56 - 110.52%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock), andLatias OHKOs with Draco Meteor.

Groudon (PhysDef Support): Dealt with in a similar way to the Earth Plate variant, except it only 3HKOs Deoxys-Speed. Latias still scares it out, and Darkrai can be used to pressure it. Your own Groudon can finish off a weakened one. I don’t recommend using Genesect versus this as it just barely can’t OHKO it with Ice Beam, and Groudon has the tendency to carry Thunder Wave (and is typically paired with teammates that easily sponge Genesect’s Ice Beam).

Groudon (Rock Polish): Only a threat if the team is severely weakened and you have lost momentum, in which case any setup sweeper is threatening, but I digress... Latias takes anything except Dragon Claw, your own Groudon lives a hit and hits it hard back, and Arceus-Ghost can Shadow Claw+Extremespeed versus a weakened one.

Groudon (Double-Dancer): Seriously don’t get swept by a +2/+2 Pokémon.

Groudon (Sdef): Only a threat due to surprise factor. Can be frustrating as it will likely get paralysis on an unsuspecting Latias. Otherwise, it can be dealt with in a similar manner to the physically defensive variant.


Ditto (Choice Scarf): Honestly, just play smart around this. If you’re at a place where you could set up to +4 with Arceus-Ghost but Ditto would copy you and countersweep the team, just don’t set up. It also gets worn down easily by hazards and the constant pressure of switching in to scout movesets.


Rayquaza (Mixed): This set is the reason why it’s always a good idea to scout Rayquaza. It’s the definition of unpredictable: It always runs Draco Meteor, but in its second slot it could run either Outrage or Dragon Claw, in its third slot could be V-Create or Fire Blast, and its fourth slot is always Extremespeed, Dragon Tail, Dragon Dance or even Tailwind. Potentially an issue as it can anti-lead Deoxys-Speed and grab momentum from there, but Genesect is good versus Rayquaza as long as it doesn’t inadvertently switch in on a Fire move. If that should happen, Rayquaza typically ends up giving Arceus-Ghost a free turn of setup. Also, Rayquaza can’t switch in on much barring a predicted Earthquake from Groudon, so just play smart.

Rayquaza (Swords Dance): Groudon takes a hit from an unboosted one and Stone Edges it, Arceus-Ghost beats a weakened one, and Genesect laughs at it. It can’t even really anti-lead Deoxys-Speed without suffering two rounds of Rocky Helmet and Life Orb recoil.

Rayquaza (Dragon Dance): Pretty much a joke. This was only ever good versus stall, and even then Mixed Rayquaza tended to do a better job at stallbreaking than it did. Infinitely checked by Genesect so long as it doesn’t get to +2/+2. Seriously, if you give this two free turns, you deserve to lose.

Rayquaza (Choice Scarf): Probably the worst scarf Pokémon in the game, the only saving grace it ever had was surprise factor. This is infuriating to face, as it typically gets a surprise OHKO on Latias or Darkrai, but then ends up essentially sacrificing itself to Genesect as it needs an Outrage lock to do actual damage.


Kyurem-White (Choice Specs): Groudon again proves itself to be the weak link of the team, as this forces it out and instantly puts you in a bad position. It can’t come in on anything else, however, and gets more than a third of its health chipped off every time it switches in with Stealth Rock+Spikes up.

Kyurem-White (Choice-less): Basically the same as Choice Specs in terms of how it’s dealt with.


Zekrom (Choice Scarf): Groudon and Genesect deal with this nicely. Typically, it’s a matter of figuring out what move it’ll lock itself into and playing accordingly.

Zekrom (Mixed Attacker): Frustrating as it can predict and OHKO a Groudon switchin. However, its short lifespan, slow speed, and relative rarity make it astronomically easier to deal with.

Zekrom (Choice Band): Threatening if it bluffs a choice scarf and tries to force Latias or Darkrai out. If it’s fast, it cleanly 2HKOs a Groudon switchin with Outrage and comes out unscathed. However, this (and most other Zekrom variants) are uncommon at best, and it can still be dealt with as long as it doesn’t find the opportunity to bluff a scarf.

Zekrom (Tailwind): If it manages to set up, it must be played around by switching between Genesect and Groudon (typically one or the other ends up falling to it in the process). As its Tailwind only lasts four turns and it is abused by the rest of the team without the speed boost, it can’t exactly 6-0 Sweet, but is undeniably an issue if it should set up.


Reshiram (Choice Scarf): Very rare and is mostly outclassed by Kyurem-W. However, this is the single biggest threat to this team, as it has the potential to OHKO Genesect with its secondary STAB, while Genesect can’t do much back. Latias takes everything barring a full-power Draco Meteor, and Arceus-Ghost finishes off a severely weakened or -2 one (Reshiram is usually weakened due to its losing more of a third of its health every time it comes in with Stealth Rock+Spikes and its inability to actually switch in on anything).

Reshiram (Tailwind): Draco Meteor has to be lured out by something or other, at which point Reshiram is dealt with by either Latias or Groudon.

Reshiram (Choice Specs): In the few thousand matches I’ve played, I must confess that this is something I have never seen. However, it’s a non-issue due to the majority of the team outspeeding and greatly threatening it.


Shedinja (Uber Swords Dance): Cute.

Shedinja (Ubers Wall): What the hell is this supposed to wall, exactly? The entirety of the team hits it for super-effective damage, and it can’t even do anything with Stealth Rock up.


Espeon (Standard): The playstyle it is used on is more threatening than the actual Pokémon itself. I describe how to deal with Magic Sun later in this guide, but as for Espeon alone…. It’s a non-issue. The worst it does is reflect Stealth Rock and pseudo-phaze with Yawn, and maybe OHKO a Genesect switchin if it should carry Hidden Power Fire.


Xatu (Standard): A slightly more annoying Espeon, its access to reliable recovery gives it slightly more lifespan. However, it has less offensive presence, and the best it does is spread Toxic/Thunder Wave and maybe Heat Wave Genesect.


Ho-oh (Choice Band): The reason I spent so long modifying this team was that I was trying to figure out the most optimal way to deal with this Pokémon, its separate variants, and the playstyles it is commonly used on. CB Ho-oh has three dominant spreads: A variant with maximum Attack, minimal speedcreep, and a lot of bulk, a variant that splits speedcreep and bulk, and a fast, Jolly/max speed variant with a straightforward spread of 252 Atk / 252 + Spd. The first two sets are dealt with in a similar manner: Darkrai can Dark Void then Taunt it to force it out, Arceus-Ghost can Shadow Claw a switchin, and either Latias or Groudon can attempt to switch in on it (though both sustain huge damage in the process). The Jolly variant will win versus Groudon if you should switch in on it, so be wary of giving it too many free turns, lest it dominates this team. If Stealth Rock is up versus it, of course the match will become much easier.

Ho-oh (Life Orb Attacker/Substitute): Slightly less threatening than the Choice Band variant. Darkrai can put it to sleep, and it will never outspeed or OHKO Groudon unless it runs astronomical speed. Otherwise, it is dealt with in the same way as Choice Band. If it gets up a substitute versus anything but Groudon, you will have to sacrifice something.

Ho-oh (Flame Charge/Tailwind): WHY DID YOU GIVE IT A FREE TURN?? Seriously though, the only way you have of dealing with one that has set up is Groudon, and that has to be healthy to win. This Pokémon gives me a legitimate reason to run Explosion Physical Genesect here.

Ho-oh (Defensive): I can’t say I’m overly fond of this variant as a whole in Generation 5. If it should switch in on Arceus-Ghost’s Shadow Claw, you can instantly tell its variant and pivot into Groudon. I guess it could be threatening, but Defensive Ho-oh is uncommon and possesses a noticeably lesser offensive presence than its other variants.


Tyranitar (Stealth Rock): This is unpredictable but not especially threatening. Deoxys-Speed tends to get up two layers of Spikes+Stealth Rock versus this, as it usually sets its own rocks anticipating you to switch out. It’s best to bring in Groudon or Genesect on it after Deoxys-Speed is brought down, because it could carry either a Lum or Chople Berry which would render Darkrai futile. The Focus Sash variant commonly seen on Double Weather will inevitably have its sash broken by Deoxys-Speed’s Rocky Helmet.

Tyranitar (Choice Band): OHKOs Deoxys-Speed with Crunch, but is otherwise dealt with in the same way as Stealth Rock variants. Darkrai can put it to sleep if absolutely necessary, but it’s best to save sleep for the opponent’s Arceus form versus Sand.


Jirachi (Bulky): When used under Rain in the hands of a competent player, it can be moderately annoying as it can Toxic a predicted Groudon switchin. If it gets caught out in sunlight, however, it is much easier to deal with: Latias 2HKOs it, Genesect deals massive damage with Flamethrower, and Darkrai easily sleeps it or Dark Pulses for solid damage. This is massive hazard bait for Deoxys-Speed.

Jirachi (Choice Scarf): Remember when I said that Rayquaza was the worst Scarf Pokémon…? Yeah, it still is, but this is a close second. It has borderline no niche over Genesect besides its speed tier, which is insignificant as the only relevant thing it ties with is Scarf Palkia, which it can’t even hurt. It also lacks a 4x Fire Weakness but instead gets an abuse-able weakness to Ground moves. It’s only threatening if your opponent has the luck of a god and flinches everything to death, but otherwise is quite weak and inferior to its bulkier variant.


Shaymin-Sky (SubSeed): Please don’t give it momentum. Genesect pivots in when it forces out Groudon or Darkrai and proceeds to abuse it from there. Arceus-Ghost can bring in down with Shadow Claw/Extremespeed spam if absolutely necessary, as it’s quite frail. Latias can Roar or just use one of its coverage moves if it isn’t behind a Substitute.

Shaymin-Sky (Choice Scarf): People started using this less once they realized how bad of a Scarf Pokémon it is, which I’m thankful for…. It’s in a similar boat as Jirachi, except it can OHKO Genesect with a surprise Hidden Power Fire (hence why it’s never a good idea to leave Genesect in on an un-scouted Shaymin-S). Overall, it should be obvious as to how to deal with it: Latias pivots in, it only 5HKOs Arceus-Ghost with Air Slash, Genesect sponges Seed Flares and Hidden Power Ice. It can be obvious what variant this is if it leads off versus Deoxys-Speed.


Heatran (Stallbreaker): You will need to get ahead in the hazards game to adequately check this. Due to its lack of reliable recovery, it can be worn down by Latias’ phazing with proper prediction, or just plain abused by Groudon or Darkrai (though both loathe switching in). This has the potential to be frustrating in the hands of a competent player.

Heatran (Choice Scarf): I legitimately have no idea how to deal with this, as its Overheat OHKOs Groudon or Darkrai that thought they could stay in on it. It doesn’t even have leftovers so it can theoretically be worn down by my hazards, and I guess Groudon can set up on a -2 Heatran if it has to.


Gliscor (Stallbreaker): Latias and Genesect are the primary answers to this. Darkrai can Taunt it, which immediately enables you to switch into Latias and Roar as it helplessly spams Earthquake. It plays minor mindgames if it gets a Substitute versus Groudon (remember that Fire Punch does enough to break the Substitute under sun), as you have to decide between switching in Genesect or Latias, though it admittedly doesn’t do much to either.


Landorus-Therian (Defensive): This is similar to opposing Groudon, but it trades weather for a flying immunity, Intimidate, and access to U-turn. Playing versus it is similar to Gliscor, but with higher opportunity cost- Latias can switch in on Earthquake, and Genesect can switch in on Toxic or U-turn, though Latias loathes switching in on U-turn or Toxic and Genesect will dislike Earthquake. Luckily, it is only a threat if it comes in on Groudon or Arceus-Ghost, and can be worn down due to its lack of reliable recovery.

Landorus-Therian (Double-Dancer): Try to avoid letting it set up, as it can be painful to deal with especially at +2/+2 (though it shouldn’t really be getting to that). It has a habit of wearing itself down, and Darkrai and Latias can pester its usual teammates (Kyogre and Ferrothorn in particular).


Blissey (Standard): Stop using this, you noobs. It is one of the few Pokémon that is mostly outclassed by its former evolution, and is not an issue to this team. It lacks any hazard resistances so is subject to being worn down by Stealth Rock and potential Spikes, is utter setup bait to the combination of Taunt Darkrai+Arceus-Ghost, Groudon forces it out, and Latias can even attempt to Psyshock it. Genesect’s U-turn hurts, but not enough to reliably check it.

Omitting a mention of Chansey since it is dealt with in an almost identical way.


Lugia (Dual Status): I am not going to dismiss Lugia as a bad Pokémon—players have used this to success in the past, and some of my friends like it. I, however, do not like it, and it is not necessarily an issue here. Obviously, if its Multiscale is broken, it becomes significantly less threatening, though it cannot be relied on to have Stealth Rock to be up versus teams that use Lugia. Darkrai is the best method of dealing with this due to its ability to put it and its teammates at a disadvantage via the combination of Dark Pulse/Dark Void/Taunt. Arceus-Ghost will win in a last-Pokémon scenario, or versus a weakened Lugia. Genesect can attempt to spam either Flamethrower or Ice Beam depending on the weather, in hopes of a freeze or burn that will severely neuter Lugia’s walling potential. It is incredible hazard bait for Deoxys-Speed, though it can potentially be run in conjunction with either Espeon or Xatu to deal with this. Obviously, if it’s running Pressure, it’s a non-issue.

Lugia (Boosting Tank): Heh.


Volcarona (Quiver Dance): Is actually one of the biggest threats to this team, in spite of its general uselessness outside of counterteaming Sweet. I am only mentioning this due to the fact that I have, in fact, lost to a team with it (in spite of its not doing much besides making me shy away from leading with Deoxys-Speed). Arceus-Ghost can finish it off with the combination of Shadow Claw+Extremespeed, though it loathes a potential Flame Body burn. Darkrai can put it to sleep if it has not boosted yet. If it should lead versus Deoxys-Speed, just Taunt it, as you will live a Bug Buzz, and can try to set Stealth Rock the next turn.


Darkrai (Substitute+Nasty Plot): Darkrai has the potential to be threatening, given that I lack “sleep fodder” in the strictest sense and I possess Arceus-Ghost, which it can abuse. However, Deoxys-Speed can be conserved after it gets up a single hazard, and foddered to teams that utilize the Nightmare Pokémon. Alternatively, your own Darkrai can serve as sleep fodder if you feel it has already done its job during a match (i.e., slept something, removed Arceus-Ghost/Giratina forms). Genesect checks and switches into all variants of Substitute/Nasty Plot Darkrai barring the Substitute+Salac variant, after something has been put to sleep. Arceus-Ghost finishes off SubSalac with its Extremespeed, assuming Darkrai is at the point of the activation range of its berry and it lacks a substitute. Try to prevent the setup of this specific threat, and limit its options with hazard abuse+Genesect.

Darkrai (Life Orb Attacker): Less threatening to this team than Substitute+Nasty Plot. Be wary of haphazardly switching Genesect in on it, as it has a tendency to carry Focus Blast which will chip of a significant portion of its health. However, it wears itself out quickly, and Genesect is safe so long as it avoids taking a Focus Blast or Thunder. Groudon can set up if something has already been put to sleep, though it sustains significant damage in the process.

Darkrai (Dual Status): A frustrating set if it should gain momentum, this is another great reason why it’s bad to switch Gensect directly into Darkrai. Just play smart around this—if you know its set ahead of time, a switchin to Groudon to take Thunder Wave may be appropriate.

Darkrai (Choice Scarf): This is a very rare scarfer, but has the potential to be threatening as it anti-leads Deoxys-Speed and deprives you of hazards, instantly creating an uphill match. Outside of this, its reliance on being choice-locked into a move as well as the fact that Tricking its choice scarf to something later might actually benefit the team (for instance, Scarf Groudon can possibly clean lategame) makes it manageable.


Kabutops (Choice Band): Deals massive damage to Groudon with even Sun Waterfall, due to its sheer power. Avoid giving it free turns, and don’t make stupid plays like switching Arceus-Ghost in under rain. Its choice lock coupled with frailty and lack of hazard resistances means that it can’t sweep, but it is wise to limit its free turns.

Kabutops (Life Orb): If given a free turn under rain, it can play mindgames with you and you need to decide whether to switch in Arceus-Ghost or Groudon to take a potential Rapid Spin or Waterfall. From my experience, a skilled player will rarely try to Rapid Spin turn one, as there is a significant opportunity cost in Rapid Spinning and giving an Arceus-Ghost a free switchin. The logical play is to Waterfall first—even if Groudon switches in, it gets invaluable chip damage on it. With that having been said, Groudon is your best answer to it, as Kabutops is utter deadweight under sun and Groudon has the bulk to take two of its attacks whilst outspeeding, given its investment. If Groudon perishes prematurely, Arceus-Ghost can also be brought in to deal with it.


Omastar (Choice Specs): The set pioneered and frequently used by the user Sweep can pose a significant threat when given free turns under rain—so don’t give it free turns under rain. Groudon is theoretically the best answer to it, but it really can’t switch in. Try to keep Sunlight up versus teams featuring Omastar, and remember that Genesect outspeeds and Bug Buzzes this variant even in rain, due to Omastar sitting at a depressing base 55 Spd.

Omastar (Shell Smash): if given the chance to set up, Groudon will have to be sacrificed in order to bring Genesect in and Revenge Kill it from there. Luckily, this very rarely finds the chance to set up, and it obviously isn’t an issue outside of Rain.


Kingdra (Life Orb): It’s pathetically weak and frail, so Groudon can actually switch in once and take anything barring Life Orb Draco Meteor easily (it still takes that, even though it sustains a significant amount of damage). If its Outrage can be lured out by Latias, Groudon can switch in and cleanly dispose of it.


Manaphy (Tail Glow): This thing is cute, seriously. Somebody once said this was the worst Uber, and that person was correct. On paper it is a threat, but in practice… it’s Manaphy.


Excadrill (Sand Sweeper): Excadrill is checked in a similar manner to Kabutops—almost always bring in Groudon first, and dispose of it from there. If Groudon ends up perishing versus Sand (something that should never happen), Arceus-Ghost is able to take a hit and Brick Break + Extremespeed, but this only works if Excadrill has been weakened significantly.

Excadrill (Support): Groudon enjoys coming in on this, as its coverage barely hurts and Donners doesn’t have enough lifespan to care much about potential Toxic damage, anyway. It forces borderline nothing out, and its methods of stalling are useless versus this sort of Hyper Offense.


Hippowdon (Physical Wall): Deoxys-S and Darkrai force it and its teammates into awkward positions with Taunt. Latias Draco Meteors to finish it. Genesect can also Ice Beam Hippowdon if absolutely necessary.


Ferrothorn (Standard Support): Really not an issue here. Latias OHKOs with sunny Hidden Power Fire, Groudon Fire Punches, Darkrai Taunts or Focus Blasts, and Genesect also hurts it with its Flamethrower. It is setup bait for Deoxys-Speed, and if it attacks as you Taunt, it suffers chip damage that could put it into the KO range of your other Pokémon’s moves.


Mewtwo (Psycho Killer): Mewtwo is probably one of the most overrated Ubers. While it is “uncounterable” in the strictest sense, it provides next to no synergy to teams and is only effective versus stall, or if you consistently predict your opponent’s switchins. Also, it is reliant on Life Orb as its main form of damage output, making its already short lifespan even more negligible, and is instantly shut down by Genesect, what I consider to be the best Scarfer in 5th Generation Ubers. As for dealing with it here, the only things it forces out are Groudon and Darkrai—Arceus-Ghost takes a hit and OHKOs with Shadow Claw, unless Ghosty is significantly weakened. Latias takes any of its coverage moves once, and massacres it with Draco Meteor. Genesect is obviously the most ideal answer to it. Deoxys-S sets up on Mewtwo, unless it is running Taunt or the situational Shadow Ball.

Mewtwo (Bulky Calm Mind): Defensively inclined Mewtwo is pretty bad… Genesect infinitely checks it, and Arceus-Ghost is also good. Latias doesn’t do as well versus this as it can boost its Special Defense, but you can Roar it if it becomes too troublesome.

Mewtwo (StallTwo): A really rare and unconventional choice for a stallbreaker, especially considering that its other forms are more threatening. Still, I really love the concept of this set. Genesect laughs at its face, but everything else has a pretty difficult time versus StallTwo.

Mewtwo (Choice Scarf): I mean, I guess it outspeeds and OHKOs Genesect…


Tentacruel (Standard): This thing… anti-leads Deoxys-S, according to some players??? The only thing it is walling or even hurting here is Genesect and maybe unboosted Arceus-Ghost, as everything else deals with it easily.


Skarmory (Physically Defensive): The only thing it’s really walling is Arceus-Ghost, or maybe Genesect locked into an unfavorable move. Skarmory is a great momentum killer, and is hazards bait as well as switch-bait for Genesect, which it can’t touch unless it runs Brave Bird.

Skarmory (Specially Defensive): See Physically defensive, though it can kind of take hits from Latias in rain.


Forretress (Physically Defensive): I’m kind of sick of seeing all these OUmons in Ubers. Everything here laughs at Forretress barring, interestingly enough, my spinblocker. This leads to some interesting mindgames if it should come in on a Genesect locked into an unfavorable move, but overall it’s just really non-threatening.

Forretress (Specially Defensive): Again, really non-threatening, except it kind of takes hits from Latias under Rain.

Forretress (Custap Berry): There are a lot of different variants of this, but Deoxys-Speed manages to anti-lead the majority of its spreads.


Blaziken (Standard): Latias is the most ideal way to wall it. Arceus-Ghost can take a hit if there isn’t sunlight, and Groudon can set up on it as it either Protects or Flare Blitzes.


Terrakion (Choice Scarf): Try to lure out either its Stone Edge or Close Combat. If it goes for CC, it’s instant setup fodder for Arceus-Ghost. If it goes for SE, Groudon sets up. If Terrakion selects Earthquake, Latias takes absolutely nothing from it and can Roar to accumulate hazard damage. Attempts to anti-lead Deoxys-Speed with this Pokémon will fail miserably, as Close Combat makes Terrakion take significant chip damage while making it instant setup fodder for Arceus-Ghost after Deoxys faints, and Stone Edge, apart from its horrid accuracy, fails to do much damage anyway. All good Hyper Offense has ways of dealing with this, and I like to think that my team is no exception.

Terrakion (Double Dancer): Groudon and Arceus-Ghost are still the primary ways of dealing with it.

Terrakion (Stealth Rock):
>Tries to anti-lead Deoxys Speed
>Fails miserably


Deoxys-Attack (Uber Sash Lead): A common play is to lead with Genesect and fire off a quick U-turn into Deoxys-Speed, then set up Stealth Rock as it goes for a desperate Extremespeed. Simply leading with Deoxys-Speed means that it has to risk a potential Dark Pulse or I have to waste a turn attacking it to win.

Deoxys-Attack (Life Orb Attacker): This is similar to Mewtwo, though it lacks an actual defense stat and has significantly higher speed. Latias switches in to sponge a Psycho Boost, then is switched out into either Genesect or Arceus-Ghost, both of which deal with it easily. If it comes in after Groudon takes something down, the best play is obviously to pivot into Genesect in case it should Ice Beam. If it comes in on Darkrai, Arceus-Ghost is typically the smartest idea.


Deoxys-Speed (Uber Sash Lead): Avoid leading with your own Deoxys-Speed, it will lose badly. Instead, lead with Arceus-Ghost and Shadow Claw. If it does not immediately Taunt you, try to set up a Swords Dance. If it Taunts you on turn two, Extremespeed turn three. If it lacks Taunt or continues setting hazards blindly in your face, just get to +6 and sweep through your opponent’s team.


Cloyster (Sun Support): Darkrai is the best way to anti-lead it, as Icicle Spear doesn’t make physical contact, meaning Deoxys-S can’t get chip damage on it. If you do end up leading with Deoxys-Speed, Taunt first, then set Stealth Rock the turn following. If it spins, it wastes its sash. Then, bring in either Genesect or Arceus-Ghost. This should never be allowed to set up without taking damage without hazards on the field, or else it’s an issue.

Again, I have tried to be as thorough as possible while avoiding redundancy. I cover Rain, Sun, Sand, the viable forms of Double Weather, and Miscellaneous teams.


Rain Offense utilizing a Suicide Lead: Get ahead in the hazards game as early as possible, and abuse Latias and Darkrai to the max. Darkrai with hazards support will always have an inherent advantage versus teams utilizing a suicide lead and spinblocker, and Latias is just always good versus Rain.


Rain Offense without a Suicide Lead: Always lead with Deoxys-Speed, and preserve Groudon so it can sweep easily. Darkrai again has the upper hand versus this type of team, and Arceus-Ghost may also see use.


Rain Balance: Get as many hazards up as possible, and abuse the combination of Groudon + Darkrai. Genesect and Latias may also frustrate Balanced Rain, depending on what Pokémon your opponent has.


Rain Stall: It is typically best to prevent the setup of Toxic Spikes at all costs. Also, it’s definitely ideal to get up as many hazards with Deoxys-Speed as possible—as a general rule of thumb, the more hazards you have up and the more hazards you prevent your opponent from setting, the easier the matchup versus Stall is. Latias’ set does surprisingly well versus Rainstall lacking Jirachi, but even that can be taken care of with smart playing. Darkrai is, of course, phenomenal at breaking Rain Stall, though its Life Orb recoil means that it often can’t win on its own.


Sand Offense: It’s trivially easy to get momentum right out of the gate versus Sand, given Deoxys-Speed’s safety to anti-lead Tyranitar. Groudon sees plenty of use, as does Arceus-Ghost.


Sand Balance with Hippowdon: An uncommon playstyle, abusing Latias and hazards are your safest bet here. This sort of team has the tendency to carry Ho-oh, so it is ideal to keep Stealth Rock on the field as long as possible. Groudon and Arceus-Ghost have difficulty cleaning versus Sand Balance, as Hippowdon walls them, but they are both necessary for taking down the opponent’s Excadrill.


Sand Balance with Tyranitar: Very similar to Sand Offense, but Groudon has a harder time versus this sort of team. Deoxys-Speed is a phenomenal momentum-getter, and Arceus-Ghost usually terrorizes this archetype after their Tyranitar faints.


Sand Stall: As with other types of stall, getting ahead in the hazards game is beneficial. After its checks have been worn down, Groudon will have a field day, and Darkrai also sees use but again has difficulty bring teams down on its own due to frailty + Life Orb recoil.


Magic Sun, I.E. Sun that utilizes either Espeon or Xatu: In my opinion, this is one of the most, if not the most threatening playstyles in the 5th Generation. Whereas even other well-built teams have inherent weaknesses, such as an unavoidable weakness to Darkrai when utilizing spinblockers or a Ferrothorn weakness when using rainstall, Magic Sun has very few weaknesses, and even these are mostly rare (such as Specs Palkia and Stealth Rock Mold Breaker Excadrill), or easy to deal with (such as a weakness to Arceus-Fighting, which can be mended with the use of either Latios, Latias or a SubCM Arceus-Ghost). Matches versus this playstyle come down to an impressive amount of 50/50s, as you are constantly forced to decide whether to set hazards with Deoxys-Speed or fire off an attack, to sleep a threat with Darkrai or Dark Pulse a switchin to a Magic Bouncer, to either Psyshock or Hidden Power Fire a switchin to Ho-oh or Genesect… Overall, the entire team must be utilized effectively and equally versus Magic Sun, and it is vital to outplay your opponent to win. Darkrai, Latias, and Arceus-Ghost will all see playtime versus a competent user of this playstyle. If Espeon can be brought down, and Stealth Rock set up, then the match will become dramatically easier, but you can’t rely on this by any means.


Spinner Sun Offense: Typically, this is inferior to Magic Sun, but there are exceptions to this rule. Darkrai infinitely terrorizes this playstyle, as it is able to beat all spinners one-on-one under the sun given its moveset. Getting Stealth Rock up is trivially easy with Rocky Helmet Deoxys-Speed, unless the opponent is utilizing a Cloyster. Latias also sees a lot of use versus Spinner Sun.


Ho-oh-less Sun Offense: Getting ahead in the hazards game and abusing the combination of Genesect and Latias is generally best versus this playstyle, with Groudon to clean lategame. Sun Offense without Ho-oh is surprisingly versatile and common in tournament play, in spite of following such a rigid formula. It always makes for an exciting match if you happen to be playing it.


Sun Stall: The most uncommon weather for stall, and a practically non-existent playstyle in late B/W 2. This is similar to Spinner Sun Offense, except even less threatening. Darkrai is able to capably deal with it on its own, and the combination of Groudon and Arceus-Ghost will be enough to wear out your opponent’s Groudon. Deoxys-Speed really only needs to get Stealth Rock up versus Sun Stall, but Spikes are of course always appreciated. Genesect is borderline useless, and Latias does well versus most teams of this playstyle.


Double Weather Offense utilizing Groudon and Kyogre: An interesting matchup. Latias and Groudon tend to do a lot versus this playstyle, as does Arceus-Ghost. Hazards and choking the setup of the opponent’s Rock Polish Groudon are vital, as is setting up with your own if the situation calls for it. This form of Double Weather is one of the most misused team archetypes on the ladder, but it is quite dangerous and should not be underestimated in the hands of a serious player.


Double Weather Balance utilizing Groudon and Kyogre: One of the most uncommon forms of Double Weather, Trickroom’s team is admittedly the only example of it I have ever seen. Latias is again potent versus this playstyle, but Darkrai also shines. Arceus-Ghost is not as effective here.


Double Weather Balance with Kyogre and a Sand Stream Pokemon: The combination of Latias, Darkrai, and as many hazards as possible are ideal versus teams that pack both Hippowdon and Kyogre. Versus Tyranitar/Kyogre teams, Groudon cleans easily once its checks have been weakened by Genesect.


Double Weather Offense with Kyogre and a Sand Stream Pokemon: Darkrai and Groudon will undeniably serve you well here. Deoxys-Speed's hazards, as always, are beneficial. Try to keep Groudon and Arceus-Ghost alive, especially if your opponent is utilizing a weather abuser such as Kabutops or Excadrill.


Weatherless Offense: Weatherless teams almost always have some form of suicide lead, which can be abused by either Deoxys-Speed or Arceus-Ghost. It is crucial to get ahead in the hazards game, and use as many free turns with Latias as the opponent gives you. Wear out the opponent’s Scarfer, and facilitate either an Arceus-Ghost or Groudon sweep. Your own Genesect is most effective versus Weatherless and Hyper-Offensive teams in general.


Smashpass: I already went over how to manage Smashpass in the threatlist, but overall it comes down to leading with Darkrai, and Dark Voiding turn one versus the opponent's Smeargle. If it has Magic Coat, the move gets bounced back at Darkrai, meaning Smeargle can't spore your switchin. Switch in to Latias as it sets up, and Roar as it Baton Passes a boost to its teammate. Then, just get a hazard or two up with Deoxys-Speed and set up with either Arceus-Ghost or Groudon.

Whatever the hell Standard Hail is: Ummm.... I dunno, I guess just follow standard procedures with the team?
 
Last edited:
Nice team, Steel! I really like the Deo-S set, and the rest of your team benefits greatly from his support.

I have no suggestions in terms of changing pokes, but I do have some small nitpicks about your EV's. You've put 76 SpD EV's on Latias. Change it to 24 HP and 52 SpD. (28 HP and 52 SpD EV's work as well, but then your HP stat won't be an odd number, which means you'll lose a wopping 1 more HP everytime she switches into SR, but anyways...) it makes her slightly more bulky in both defenses. Ghostceus's last 4 EV's should be put in Def, so Genesect will always get the SpA boost, cause Genesect's Flamethrower is less threatning than his Iron Head, imo. The rest of your EV's are fine.

That's all I have. Great team! ;)
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Nice team, Steel! I really like the Deo-S set, and the rest of your team benefits greatly from his support.

I have no suggestions in terms of changing pokes, but I do have some small nitpicks about your EV's. You've put 76 SpD EV's on Latias. Change it to 24 HP and 52 SpD. (28 HP and 52 SpD EV's work as well, but then your HP stat won't be an odd number, which means you'll lose a wopping 1 more HP everytime she switches into SR, but anyways...) it makes her slightly more bulky in both defenses. Ghostceus's last 4 EV's should be put in Def, so Genesect will always get the SpA boost, cause Genesect's Flamethrower is less threatning than his Iron Head, imo. The rest of your EV's are fine.

That's all I have. Great team! ;)
Hi Desch!

Latias' spread is updated, I didn't even really consider the benefits of switching around the EVs. As for Ghostceus, its Defense and Special Defense stats are the same, meaning that Genesect always gets the Satk boost anyway.
 
Finally an Ubers team, now i know there are some raters around so I can make an RMT myself.
BTW Nice Team, I LOVED Darkrai, I normally only used the classic set, but you changed my mind completely, i'll give it a test!, the same applies to Deo-S and Gene, very creative and a fun read, loved it!
 
Last edited:

Vileman

Actually a Nice Fella
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Former Old Generation Tournament Circuit Champion
UPL Champion
Couldnt had asked for a better shotout<3
Only thing i can think of atm would be changing hp fire for fire punch on deoxys, hp iirc lowered your speed ivs and its weaker than hp fire :| also i'd suggest you to make it fast enough to outspeed scarfgene, as geting that thing early game could make your life easier n.n
 

hyw

Banned deucer.
I have witnessed your utilization of this team frequently, among other ladders I fail to identify; it's a very solid team, as there is nothing I can say that would dramatically improve it, although I would add some tweaks for some personalization. ;)

I also want to add that specially oriented Genesect with Flamethrower in the Sun is pretty powerful. o.o

Also, I made this account a while ago. :)

Maybe I should make a RMT for Smogon; although I feel that generation 6 is inferior to generation 5, and one way is that knowledge of your opponents sets are increasingly vital in the determination of the victor.

Again, good team, I might ladder with it sometime! x)
 

steelskitty

you deserve so much more than this
is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Updated with threatlist and matchups

Thanks Roxer and Hyw, I appreciate the praise :)

Also Vileman, HP Fire is for doing more damage to custap forretress. The Sdef is so that Darkrai only has a 40% chance to OHKO if it tries to anti-lead you.
 

hyw

Banned deucer.
So Anik came up with the set, interesting. He is a true genius, bulky Rocky Helmet Deoxys-Speed is more than viable in Generation VI as well. :)
 
nice! so much effort put into the rmt and the threat list, really cool team tho n_n , and Ja, Leading EKiller against that Deo-S set was probably the worst thing I could've done, but dw I made sure to lead ScarfOgre against it next time we faced :]
 
I told you it was weak to draco spam and you completed ignored my advice you hoe, my pawniard is amazing fyi, S tier in a gen where half your team is complete shit js.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top