Approved The Mediocre Mon

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I guess they call you NumberCruncher for a reason. Thanks a bunch for the calcs.

I agree that Speed is the stat we need to narrow down first, because making this CAP a mediocre offensive/defensive threat would rely on typing more than anything. Making a slow Pokemon just screams "bad", but having a Speed stat in the 80-90 range like you brought up makes it a very "mediocre" stat, and a very awkward number to deal with in terms of the current metagame. Though one thing we may have to take into account is whether or not the CAP will be able to modify that Speed stat, though. If it will have access to boosting moves like Agility, how will the +2 speed compare to the metagame, and so on. How fast should it be if it were to have a Scarf? Should its ability to boost or use items that modify stats be mediocre, too? Though I suppose that has more to do with the moves it has access to.

HP is something that I think we'll need to analyze a bit, too. Generally, a defensive Pokemon will have a good balance between an average to above-average HP stat and good defensive stats. What happens if all of those are average? Like how the concept describes, we'll need to find a way to tie it all together, but I believe staying around the average area for defensive stats for now is a smarter idea.

While offensive Pokemon don't necessarily rely on having a good HP stat, in order to enforce this CAP's "mediocrity", why not give it more HP than a usual offensive threat would? And I'm not saying to give the CAP more bulk, because HP stat alone doesn't determine that. Pokemon with oddly distributed stats are usually dismissed as "mediocre" or lower all the time, and I feel like, as a project, we can subvert that and make it into a viable quality.
 
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Deck Knight

Blast Off At The Speed Of Light! That's Right!
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I know this concept has been approved, but just to provide some additional direction here is a list of OU / OU viable [based on Viability Rankings thread] Pokemon that I feel fit the kind of profile we might want for this Pokemon:

- - - - - Solid.

Clefable - Actually has two sets that do different things, with Magic Guard being about 2/3rds of usage and Unaware 1/3rd. Both of those abilities are fairly powerful in their own right, and I don't necessarily think we should feel obligated to use either. It does show that with a good typing and excellent support, a thoroughly mediocre Pokemon can become a force.

Quagsire - Operates much like Unaware Clefable for niche teams. Again, my worry is being pigeonholed into another Unaware mon, but Quagsire does fit the mold of this concept.

Breloom - With the exception of Attack, Breloom is thoroughly mediocre, weak to FlySPAM, has fairly wallable coverage on its sets, since it runs mostly STAB. It still gets a reasonably high OU ranking because Spore and its abilities work almost perfectly well with the slot Breloom plays on its team. Breloom seems like a very solid offense-oriented base for this concept.

Tentacruel - Tentacruel's only exceptional stat is SpD, as 100 Spe isn't quite as "high" as it used to be. Rather, Tentacruel is again a Pokemon that thrives on its typing and specific options in building a team. Tentacruel provides a solid support-oriented base for this concept.

Skarmory - When you actually look at Skarmory statwise, it's pretty mediocre. 65/140 is certainly a decent level of defense, but not even close to being exceptional anymore. So what makes Skarmory work? It's specific typing and options, and the fact it has just enough offensive ability to run its STAB and scare off what is necessary. Skarmory provides a solid defense-oriented base for this concept.

- - - - - Tenuous.

Starmie - It's fast, it has decent coverage and abilities, but it's hardly a Pokemon that defines the tier. It's a little more tenuous than the previous entries, again because of speed and offensive presence, but nothing about Starmie screams "imminent danger" or "frustrating wall." It's simply a solid Pokemon with good offerings for its team.

Bisharp - This entry is also a little more tenuous than the others, but you can't argue Bisharp is thriving on its stats alone, it's thriving on metagame conditions that turn its type and ability into a monstrous combination. Punishing Defog turned a Pokemon with a single decent stat and mediocre everything else (its defense is also passable, which is again why it's more tenuous) into a staple.

Gothitelle would also technically qualify from a stats perspective, but Shadow Tag is play-altering in ways these other Pokemon aren't, and I don't think another trapping mon would be the direction to go in.
 
So according to Bulbapedia...

The average base HP stat is 68 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 80.
The average Attack stat is 75 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 90.
The average Defense stat is 70 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 83.
The average Special Attack Stat is 69 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 83.
The average Special Defense stat is 69 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 83.
The average Speed stat is 66 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 78.

Stat-wise, it's Glalie and Phione. Which may give you an idea of how difficult this project might be, because neither of these are particularly viable. The key would be to find individual aspects that are highly overlooked and underpowered on their own, but have synergistic relationships with each other... which, as mentioned early, means that we would have to have parts of the CAP built simultaneously, which isn't the way CAP works (we look at one aspect at a time). Unless the CAP board wants to make an exception for this one :/
 
That is not at all what this project means(nothing stand out refers to ou not to all pokemon), also your late the cap already started(this was not slated).
 
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That is not at all what this project means(nothing stand out refers to ou not to all pokemon), also your late the cap already started(this was not slated).
All of the approved concepts can be re-used again in future CAP projects if they were not used, so this can technically be re-examined.
 
So according to Bulbapedia...

The average base HP stat is 68 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 80.
The average Attack stat is 75 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 90.
The average Defense stat is 70 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 83.
The average Special Attack Stat is 69 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 83.
The average Special Defense stat is 69 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 83.
The average Speed stat is 66 for all Pokémon, and the average for all fully evolved Pokémon is 78.

Stat-wise, it's Glalie and Phione. Which may give you an idea of how difficult this project might be, because neither of these are particularly viable. The key would be to find individual aspects that are highly overlooked and underpowered on their own, but have synergistic relationships with each other... which, as mentioned early, means that we would have to have parts of the CAP built simultaneously, which isn't the way CAP works (we look at one aspect at a time). Unless the CAP board wants to make an exception for this one :/
This is a bad metric. What we really want to consider is the average among OU pokemon. We want to be 'mediocre' relative to OU, not relative to the entire 800andsomething. NumberCruncher has crunched some numbers on the last page for reference. Here are some more: base stat averages for every OU mon from S to B (just plugged them into a spreadsheet. Cut it off at B- (non-inclusive) arbitrarily and because that's the theorymon benchmark so good enough for me)

HP: 84
ATTACK: 102
DEFENSE: 95
SPECIAL ATTACK: 92
SPECIAL DEFENSE: 94
SPEED: 88

This kind of data doesn't take roles into account (so you have extremities like dump stats on Beedrill/Chansey and the insanely buffed attacks of some megas in the equation) but it is a pretty good ballpark thing. So the question is: could we create something with stats around these levels, with a type/ability that's decent but not straight up amazing, and have it succeed in the OU metagame? I think so. Those averages would make a usable stat spread in themselves.

I do have a change to suggest: I think we should change the word 'mediocre' to 'average'. 'Mediocre' is a subjective word, which is bad enough, but worse, it's one that's subject to frequent misunderstanding. To some it seems to mean 'average', 'medium', etc; to others (the proper usage I believe) it connotes poor quality, below-averageness. The gap between these two understandings of the word is critical to the project. It won't be successful if everybody has a different definition of 'mediocre'. I think 'average' is far preferable; it is a more common word, so better understood, and it has a mathematical aspect to make its meaning clear. Obvs this is subject to QC approval (and that of concept author? Not sure) and I'm not even sure if alterations can be made after it's approved (can't find a rule anywhere), but I think it would make for a project with clearer goals.
 
This is a bad metric. What we really want to consider is the average among OU pokemon. We want to be 'mediocre' relative to OU, not relative to the entire 800andsomething. NumberCruncher has crunched some numbers on the last page for reference. Here are some more: base stat averages for every OU mon from S to B (just plugged them into a spreadsheet. Cut it off at B- (non-inclusive) arbitrarily and because that's the theorymon benchmark so good enough for me)

HP: 84
ATTACK: 102
DEFENSE: 95
SPECIAL ATTACK: 92
SPECIAL DEFENSE: 94
SPEED: 88

This kind of data doesn't take roles into account (so you have extremities like dump stats on Beedrill/Chansey and the insanely buffed attacks of some megas in the equation) but it is a pretty good ballpark thing. So the question is: could we create something with stats around these levels, with a type/ability that's decent but not straight up amazing, and have it succeed in the OU metagame? I think so. Those averages would make a usable stat spread in themselves.

I do have a change to suggest: I think we should change the word 'mediocre' to 'average'. 'Mediocre' is a subjective word, which is bad enough, but worse, it's one that's subject to frequent misunderstanding. To some it seems to mean 'average', 'medium', etc; to others (the proper usage I believe) it connotes poor quality, below-averageness. The gap between these two understandings of the word is critical to the project. It won't be successful if everybody has a different definition of 'mediocre'. I think 'average' is far preferable; it is a more common word, so better understood, and it has a mathematical aspect to make its meaning clear. Obvs this is subject to QC approval (and that of concept author? Not sure) and I'm not even sure if alterations can be made after it's approved (can't find a rule anywhere), but I think it would make for a project with clearer goals.
I thought about doing this and actually had everything up to A- listed on a spreadsheet, but then I thought: we're not just trying to make something viable for competition, we're trying to make a Pokemon. I don't think either of our ways of defining "mediocre" or "average" are bad, they're just different.

I just think it would be more of a welcome challenge if we tried to make a Pokemon whose stats were average across ALL Pokemon, not just compared to the rest of OU. Pokemon that are overused are great in part due to their good stats; it feels like making a Pokemon who sat at or just below the average in OU would still stand above a lot of other 'mons in lower tiers, and then it's up to you to define if that Pokemon (or, at least, its stats) is really "average" or if it's actually "above average, and good enough to be viable in OU".
 
Yes, CAPs are built for the OU metagame. The question is about what defines mediocre, if by Pokémon standards or OU standards. I agree it should be OU, but since azureleaf17 raised this point, its better to just specify it on the concep itself to remove any ambiguity.
 

BP

Beers and Steers
is a Contributor to Smogon
I just want to Say that this concept has a lot of Potential in My opinion. I think it should be reposted for CAP 22 when it comes around.
 
Agreeing with the above, I feel like this concept should be revisited for CAP22. Maybe with some modifications, though. For example, rather than being mediocre in everything, it could be great in everything except for one of its major components. Using Clefable as an example, it has good stats (nothing too great), but the rest of its components (type, abilities and moves) are amazing. If done right, CAP22 could become a great Pokemon in itself and be great for the CAP metagame.
 
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