Tier Shift Viability Ranking V2

[Peef Rimgar]

Art by user: Rhythms

Welcome all to the second version of the Tier Shift Viability Ranking! With the disappearance of Insanelegend at least temporarily, he decided to hand down the thread to me. Assisting me in any decisions I have Kingslayer2779 and Deathly ♛The King, two very skilled TS players. We'll work as a community to keep as accurate ranking of the Tier Shift metagame as possible, when the meta can completely change in one tier shift. Feel free to nominate any changes but try to keep posts intelligent.
​

S Rank: This hallowed rank is reserved for those few pokemon who are incredible in the current Tier Shift metagame. They wall or sweep vast portion of the meta. Support pokemon in this tier give very few free turns. These pokemon can either pull off many roles effectively or are amazing in just one role. These pokemon are also used at low risk while being able to reap high rewards. They may have flaws but these are remedied by their other traits. They require very little support.

S Rank

Politoed

Sharpedo-Mega

A Rank: This rank is reserved for those pokemon who are amazing in the current Tier Shift metagame. They have great offensive, defensive, and support potential. While they have more severe flaws, these are still overshadowed by their good points. They require little support.

A+ Rank

Alomomola

Altaria-Mega

Amoongus

Cresselia

Hippowdon

Kabutops

Ludicolo

Metagross-Mega

Sawk

A Rank

Aromatisse

Azumarill

Camerupt-Mega

Cobalion

Heracross-Mega

Houndoom-Mega

Kyurem

Latias

Latias-Mega

Lopunny-Mega

Manaphy

Quagsire

Scizor-Mega

Virizion

A- Rank

Charizard-Mega-Y

Chesnaught

Cinccino

Doublade

Gallade-Mega

Glalie-Mega

Gyarados

Ferrothorn

Haxorus

Heatran

Hydreigon

Keldeo

Landorus-Incarnate

Mew

Meloetta

Miltank

Ninetails

Pangoro

Pinsir-Mega

Reuniclus

Sableye-Mega

Slowking

Swampert-Mega

Suicune

Thundurus-Incarnate


B Rank: This rank is reserved for those pokemon who are very good in the current Tier Shift metagame. They are threatening, but they have more flaws that affect their preformance. While they are still good, they require more team support to be effective.

B+ Rank

Audino-Mega

Bisharp

Blastoise-Mega

Bouffalant

Diancie-Mega

Dragonite

Durant

Escavalier

Feraligatr

Hitmonlee

Honchkrow

Jirachi

Krookodile

Landorus-Therian

Latios

Omastar

Rhydon

Rotom-Mow

Rotom-Wash

Scolipede

Scyther

Starmie

Talonflame

Tangrowth

Thundurus-Therian

Tornadus-Therian

Tyrantrum

Venusaur-Mega

B Rank

Aerodactyl-Mega

Chansey

Charizard-Mega-X

Cofagrigus

Dragalge

Gardevoir-Mega

Gilgar

Gyarados-Mega

Kingdra

Magneton

Mandibuzz

Pidgeot-Mega

Rhyperior

Rotom-Heat

Skarmory

Tornadus-Incarnate

Tyranitar

Typhlosion

Victini

Volcarona

Weezing

B- Rank

Alakazam-Mega

Azelf

Beedrill-Mega

Clefable

Crawdaunt

Diggersby

Empoloen

Gengar

Gliscor

Goodra

Granbull

Gurdurr

Mamoswine

Mismagius

Raikou

Sceptile-Mega

Terrakion

C Rank: This rank is for pokemon who have notable niches in the Tier Shift Metagame, but are usually outclassed by another more common pokemon. These pokemon also need a large amount of support to be able to preform their roles effectively.

C+ Rank

Alakazam

Ampharos-Mega

Ditto

Garbodor

Golbat

Heliolisk

Klinklang

Malamar

Serperior

Shedinja

Sigilyph

Slurpuff

Staraptor

Tentacruel

Umbreon

Victreebel

Weavile

C Rank

Abomasnow-Mega

Absol-Mega

Arcanine

Archeops

Breloom

Klefki

Medicham-Mega

Mesprit

Porygon2

C- Rank

Darmanitan

Dugtrio

Garchomp

Hawlucha

Moltres

Steelix-Mega

Stoutland

Togekiss

Whimsicott

D Rank: This rank is reserved for pokemon who are simply terrible or mediocre, but are barely good enough to warrant a place on some teams. These pokemon do not have any special niches, or are capable of doing one specific task but fail when attempting others.

D+ Rank

Electivire

Lilligant

Sylveon

Togetic


D Rank

Aggron-Mega

Flareon

Manectric-Mega

Primeape

D- Rank

Diancie

Donphan

Linoone

Smeargle

E Rank: Reserved for pokemon who are not good enough to warrant a place on any serious team. Please do not use them except as gimmicks as they are terrible. Those listed are seen often on the ladder (above 1% usage, specifically) and, well, shouldn't be. This will also act as a blacklist, if deemed necessary.

Dusclops

Mawile

Pikachu

Regigigas

Sandslash

...And anything else

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Thread Shift 4/24/15 Changes

A+ ---> S

Unranked ---> A

Unranked ---> A-

B+ ---> A-

B ---> B+

B- ---> B+

C- ---> B-

Unranked ---> C+

Unranked ---> C

Unranked ---> C-

Unranked ---> D+

Pre-Shift 5/1/15 Update

B+ ---> A

B+ ---> A-

B ---> B+

B ---> B+

A- ---> B+

C- ---> C+

Unranked ---> C+

Unranked ---> C-

D ---> Unranked

E ---> Unranked

Bye Shadow Tag Update 5/5/15

S ---> Unranked

A+ ---> Unranked

Peef is an Idiot and Forgot To Update 5/25/15

A ---> S

A- ---> A+

Unranked ---> A-

Unranked ---> B

Unranked ---> C+

C+ ---> C-

6/14/15 Update

Mandibuzz: D+ --> B

Togetic: Unranked --> D+

Honchkrow: Unranked --> B+

Umbreon: Unranked --> C+

Flareon: Unranked --> D

Ludicolo: A --> A+

Tornadus: D+ --> B

Scyther: B+ --> A-

Mamoswine: C- --> B-

Diancie-Mega: A- --> B+

reasoning

18:44 Kingslayer b- seems odd for mandibuzz i feel likes its better then empoleon
18:44 DTKek b fits it imo
18:44 PeefRimgar whats the best mandibuzz set rn anyways
18:44 PeefRimgar i agree from seeing it its better than emp
18:44 Kingslayer bulky defog
18:44 Kingslayer defense and sp.def are good
18:45 PeefRimgar i mean duh but what moves specifically
18:45 DTKek defog/roost/foul play/I think toxic?
18:45 Kingslayer foul play/toxic/defog/roost with knock off slashed on foul play and taunt on defog
18:45 Kingslayer so it can kinda stall break sorta
18:46 DTKek and whirlwind slashed with whatever the fuck you think it should be used instead of
18:46 Kingslayer i feel like defensive sets are better
18:46 Kingslayer more special electric and ice attackers
18:46 PeefRimgar I'll throw it in b (glares at ks)

18:48 PeefRimgar togetic sounds like ass just tbh but ive seen it literally once
18:48 Kingslayer its not
18:48 DTKek togetic is ass
18:48 DTKek there's no reason to use it
18:48 DTKek
18:48 Kingslayer its got 95 special attack
18:48 DTKek ooh scary
18:48 Kingslayer 70/100/120 balk
18:48 Kingslayer and evio
18:48 DTKek bad imo tho
18:48 Kingslayer its bulky as fuck
18:49 DTKek Its not as good as it seems on paper
18:49 PeefRimgar id throw it like in d unless you give me replays telling me to do otherwise
18:49 DTKek d+ works imo
18:50 Kingslayer 252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 162-192 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
18:50 Kingslayer how is that bad?
18:50 Kingslayer it almost walls friggin scarf ttar
18:50 Kingslayer mind you 100 is the weaker side
18:50 Kingslayer defense i mean
18:51 PeefRimgar what aboyt
18:51 PeefRimgar them sneeky pebbles
18:51 PeefRimgar it cant rlly wall anything too relevant can it?
18:51 Kingslayer IT WALLS LUDICOLo
18:51 Kingslayer WHOOOAAAAA
18:51 PeefRimgar bullshit lmao
18:51 Kingslayer IN RAIN
18:51 Kingslayer 252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 129-152 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
18:51 Kingslayer LETS GO
18:51 Kingslayer NOT EVEN AUDINO DOES THAT
18:52 PeefRimgar nice 248/252+/252+ spread bw
18:52 PeefRimgar btw
18:52 Kingslayer w/e
18:52 Kingslayer sp.def seems better
18:52 PeefRimgar going spdef does have merit ill give you
18:52 Kingslayer yeah it looks better then defensive
18:52 DTKek dusclops walls it too
18:52 DTKek does that make dusclops good?
18:52 Kingslayer i just grabbed the ru set
18:52 PeefRimgar i mean toge has a niche + walls ludi
18:53 Kingslayer dusclops gets rekted cause no recovery
18:53 DTKek dusclops is annoying af
18:53 DTKek rest x_x
18:53 PeefRimgar dusclops isnt the point lmao
18:53 Kingslayer plus fairy flying is good defensive typing
18:53 DTKek true
18:53 PeefRimgar i'm putting it in D+ for now
18:53 DTKek except sneaky pebbles
18:53 PeefRimgar get me some replays and it can shoot on up

18:59 PeefRimgar any debate for honchkrow?
18:59 DTKek never used it or seen it used so idk
18:59 Kingslayer its actually pretty good
18:59 PeefRimgar powerful af, pursuit trap + moxie is cute as fuck
18:59 Kingslayer sucker is nice too
18:59 PeefRimgar yeh
18:59 PeefRimgar im down for B+ tbh
19:00 Kingslayer doesn't dark/flying hit half the tier for netural
19:00 Kingslayer and superpower covers the rest
19:00 PeefRimgar p much
19:00 Kingslayer like ttar and bisharp
19:00 Kingslayer so its coverage is flat out amazing
19:01 Kingslayer it can get out of control fast cause of moxie
19:01 Kingslayer and roost is cute
19:01 Kingslayer i'm down with B+
19:01 Kingslayer its difficult to wall due to great coverage, and moxie pursuit is nice against offense

19:05 Kingslayer so umbreon
19:05 PeefRimgar i am the pisslord
19:06 PeefRimgar of shit mountain
19:06 Kingslayer its got great mixed bulk
19:06 DTKek ye
19:06 Kingslayer rofl
19:06 DTKek and it can act as a cleric
19:06 PeefRimgar i feel like its harder to justify with mandi everywhere
19:06 Kingslayer yeah but its got competition
19:06 Kingslayer i feel like it deserves rank though
19:06 Kingslayer its hard to say something adrian uses doesn't deserve rank
19:07 DTKek he used offense against me earlier
19:07 DTKek he used fucking rain
19:07 Kingslayer C/C+ is fine if you think its niche
19:07 Kingslayer LOL
19:07 Kingslayer ADRIAN USING RAIN
19:07 DTKek C+ at least imo
19:07 Kingslayer WAT
19:07 PeefRimgar C+ soudns good

19:08 PeefRimgar flareon
19:08 Kingslayer since its got alot of competition, but its got good niche qualities
19:08 PeefRimgar i wish i could say no
19:08 DTKek gross flareon
19:08 PeefRimgar i rlly do
19:08 Kingslayer same
19:08 Kingslayer but then like
19:08 PeefRimgar but adrian kinda draged me with it
19:09 Kingslayer wisp sub actually kinda works
19:09 Kingslayer needs a note
19:09 Kingslayer don't ever use for offense sets
19:09 DTKek yes
19:09 DTKek plz
19:09 Kingslayer because its literally a shitmon for pure offense sets
19:09 PeefRimgar it should run like
19:09 Kingslayer bulky wisp/wish protect is the only justifiction
19:09 PeefRimgar wisp/morning sun/sub/blitz
19:09 PeefRimgar wait wish
19:09 Kingslayer yeah
19:10 Kingslayer it has wish protect too
19:10 Kingslayer not that its hp is any good
19:10 PeefRimgar doesnt get sun ;;
19:10 PeefRimgar yeah 80 hp iusnt doing too much wishpass wise
19:10 Kingslayer rofl
19:10 Kingslayer it doesn't get sun
19:11 Kingslayer okay wish/protect/wisp/blitz
19:11 Kingslayer and maybe heal bell somewhere
19:11 Kingslayer actually no
19:11 Kingslayer thats bad
19:11 Kingslayer it needs wisp imo
19:12 PeefRimgar its like
19:12 PeefRimgar d/d-
19:12 Kingslayer sure
19:12 PeefRimgar its better than donphan, ill give it d

19:13 Kingslayer do we need justifcation to move ludicolo up
19:13 Kingslayer it has like single digit switch ins
19:13 PeefRimgar literally just
19:13 PeefRimgar its fucking ludicolo
19:13 Kingslayer chansey/togetic/goodra/tentacruel
19:13 Kingslayer oh and mantine which isn't that great
19:14 PeefRimgar does mantine take several gigas?
19:14 Kingslayer and when jynx is one of your main checks
19:14 DTKek *inserts and dusclops to please the nubs*
19:14 Kingslayer oh yeah
19:14 Kingslayer it takes a bunch of gigas
19:14 Kingslayer can't do shit back but toxic though

19:40 PeefRimgar torn
19:40 DTKek k
19:40 Kingslayer so torn
19:40 Kingslayer supporting rain= instant B rank imo
19:40 Kingslayer or higher
19:41 Kingslayer its just as good of a setter as Thundy imo
19:41 Kingslayer thundy has more value outside of Rain though
19:41 DTKek I'd go with b
19:41 Kingslayer Torn-I is pretty much restricted to rain support.
19:41 Kingslayer otherwise therian is better
19:42 DTKek Yeah it should be below therian
19:42 Kingslayer but Torn-I's hurricanes tear up alot of rain checks, and focus blast hits ferrothorn
19:42 DTKek yeah
19:43 PeefRimgar so B?
19:43 Kingslayer also heat wave if you want to hit thorn, and don't mind the nombo with Rain
19:43 Kingslayer i say B
19:43 Kingslayer unless you disagree
19:43 PeefRimgar i have no opinion so it is
19:43 PeefRimgar so b*

19:47 Kingslayer Scyther nows
19:47 PeefRimgar scyther im iffy on
19:47 Kingslayer its pretty versatile for a mon with a shit movepool and meh typing
19:48 PeefRimgar its strong and a big part of voltturn
19:48 PeefRimgar but its typing is literally anus
19:48 Kingslayer band hits hard as fuck
19:48 PeefRimgar ass doesnt work
19:48 DTKek >using band
19:48 PeefRimgar its the asshole
19:48 PeefRimgar anyways
19:48 Kingslayer band is great
19:48 PeefRimgar band is usable at least
19:48 DTKek sd and great bulk are its greatest assets imo
19:48 Kingslayer stronk aerial ace spam and quick attack
19:49 Kingslayer can check ludicolo with evio lol
19:49 Kingslayer thats always relevant
19:52 Kingslayer anyway like i said scyther is scary to balance teams
19:52 PeefRimgar i cant rlly dispute a rise ig
19:52 Kingslayer since we have less dedicated answers to set up, and it outspeeds alot of common balance mons
19:53 Kingslayer it threatens offense too
19:53 Kingslayer that speed is just marvelous
19:53 Kingslayer ofc pebbles trips it up
19:53 PeefRimgar dtkek do you strongly disagree?
19:55 DTKek I think it can go up

19:56 PeefRimgar mamoswine then
19:56 Kingslayer okay
19:57 DTKek I agree with it
19:57 PeefRimgar what was it nommed for?
19:57 Kingslayer if he did he deleted it
19:57 DTKek c-
19:57 Kingslayer mamo to b-
19:57 DTKek wait b-
19:57 Kingslayer from c-
19:58 Kingslayer mamo is pretty fucking strong
19:58 DTKek yeah
19:58 PeefRimgar plus gets weird good coverage with freeze dry
19:58 DTKek lol
19:59 DTKek and it can act as a sr setter too\
19:59 Kingslayer freeze dry is so fucking weird
19:59 PeefRimgar im down with b-
19:59 Kingslayer but good
19:59 Kingslayer same

INSERT SALT HERE

As to not out 300 lines of KS and DTK arguing on IRC, it's being dropped due to weakness to common mons and playstyles, like Rain, Sharpedo-Mega, Amoongus, etc.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

I have a nom of my own to make :]

B+ ---> A-/A

I honestly consider this rain's best mon right now, over Kabutops even. It's insanely hard hitting in rain with LO Hydro Pump, and is nigh impossible to outpace in it. Me and Kingslayer2779 sat around for a while trying to name mons that beat it, settling on the all mighty AV Snorlax and Tentacruel (which could use a rank but idk what to do with it). It's so difficult for any playstyle, especially offense, to deal with, and is just ridiculously good in the current meta.

Unranked ---> C-

This is a cute as fuck sand mon, and it forms a wonderful sand core with Excadrill (which also needs rank but I'm bad) due to them having similar checks and counters that break down to the both of them. Stoutland in my experience is more of a late game cleaner for sand teams, and it is very good at said job. It's nigh impossible to outspeed in Sand and hits surprisingly hard all the same. It's definitely a mon worth ranking.

 

[Kingslayer2779]

Nominating Rotom forms for B----> B+

The Rotom forms all excel at checking some form of Weather. Rotom-Wash+Rotom Mow both check Rain+Sand. Both can hit several of the main abusers/setters SE or cripple with a burn. Rotom-H provides the same role against Sun+Sand. Basically the trio are HO's best way of checking the Weather teams that would otherwise sweep through them with ease.

Nominating Tentacruel for Unranked---->C+

With a lack of recovery and power, tentacruel isn't the most optimal sp.def wall. But it does offer some of the best hazard management in toxic spikes/rapid spin. However its flaws are pretty noticeable, so i'm thinking C+.

Nominating Tornadus-Therian for A- -------> B

Poor Tornadus was hurt pretty bad by the mechanics change in ts. Without the UU boost, Tornadus simply needs more evs to bulk/outspeed/hit back/. It just isn't as efficient as it was prior to the changes, and it has more difficulty checking things due to this.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Unranked ===> Rank B-

My thoughts:

Overview
Whimsicott is much better than I anticipated. With the right support, this cotton can certainly stall out a team. It has access to many support moves such as Leech Seed, Stun Spore, Memento, Encore, Taunt, etc. Its base 116 Speed, outspeeds many threats in the metagame besides "some" Choice Scarf users. Even if Whim goes against Scarf users, it has the ability Prankster which allows non attacking moves to go first. Though Whim does rely on hax to further its game in stalling. Despite its Fairy / Grass typing with a handful of weaknesses, Whimsicott still performs to the best of its ability crippling its enemies.

Hide

Moves

• Encore
• Stun Spore
• Substitute
• Leech Seed
• Moonblast
• Tail Wind
• Memento
• Taunt

These are pretty much the main moves that are being showcased with Whimsicott. Due to Prankster, its able to use Stun Spore to paralyze the foe even if the foe can outspeed it with Choice Scarf. It can also catch targets upon repeating the same move they just used from the move Encore. This move traps the foe while Whimsicott sets up either Substitute or Leech Seed. Rather it is indeed hard to get a hit on it when Whimsicott while it's behind a Sub because the foe under Encore and paralysis. With a 50/50 chance to paralyze, a turn can be wasted at that moment while Leech Seed depletes their HP giving Whimsicott the ability to set up more than just 4 Substitutes. Taunt combined with Encore causes the foe to use struggle. Memento, when used in tandem with a Pokemon that has either Shadow Tag or Arena Trap and can allow you set up all over the opponent. It's kinda niche if you ask me.

Conclusion
Overall this thing is beyond annoying and causes many rage quits due to luck as well. Tailwind can also boost its team's Speed for a few turns allowing for some to set up and sweep. Its typing gives it immunity to Dragon-types giving it one less thing to worry about. Also with STAB Moonblast decreasing Special Attack and such would be very helpful making it even more difficult to take down. Memento will also cause the Opponent to switch out allowing its team to also set up as well.

While I do agree it could use a bump up, I don't believe it's quite as good as the rest of B-. Its hard to do much with, and suffers from pretty awful 4mss. Id say it's more of a C+ mon than a B-

 

[leng loi]

Cinccino B+ ----------> A-
Cincinno can act as a Wallbreaker with Choice Band or King's Rock. It outspeeds a large portion of the metagame at base 125 Speed so as to threaten offense as well. Overall it has a versatile movepool which, while not incredibly deep, allows it to function in a variety of roles. It has Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, and Rock Blast to abuse with Skill Link as well as Aqua Tail, Gunk Shot, and Knock Off for coverage. Its utility options include Encore to break down walls, Thunder Wave to support a core of Sweepers or Wallbreakers, Substitute, and U-Turn. Overall this mon is a potent threat to many common playstyles and I believe it should be considered as an "A Rank" Pokemon.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Cinccino B+ ----------> A-
Cincinno can act as a Wallbreaker with Choice Band or King's Rock. It outspeeds a large portion of the metagame at base 125 Speed so as to threaten offense as well. Overall it has a versatile movepool which, while not incredibly deep, allows it to function in a variety of roles. It has Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, and Rock Blast to abuse with Skill Link as well as Aqua Tail, Gunk Shot, and Knock Off for coverage. Its utility options include Encore to break down walls, Thunder Wave to support a core of Sweepers or Wallbreakers, Substitute, and U-Turn. Overall this mon is a potent threat to many common playstyles and I believe it should be considered as an "A Rank" Pokemon.

Lol. Only meta where Cinccino is still considered viable.

So this post isn't a waste, I haven't played TS in quite a while, and I'm wondering what exactly makes Latios outclassed by Latias? The difference between the two is pretty big too.

 

[leng loi]

So this post isn't a waste, I haven't played TS in quite a while, and I'm wondering what exactly makes Latios outclassed by Latias? The difference between the two is pretty big too.

Latias gets Heal Bell and Wish to work on Balance/Bulky Offense/Stall as well as as an offensive defogger.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Small update time due to some hopefully upcoming news in TS:

5/1/15 Pre-Shift Update

B+ ---> A

B ---> B+

B ---> B+

A- ---> B+

C- ---> C+

Unranked ---> C+

Unranked ---> C-

D ---> Unranked

Bidoof ---> Unranked

B+ ---> A-

The only change listed here that wasn't discussed in thread was the unranking entirely of both Floatzel and Jolteon. This came of a discussion in the om room saying they were outclassed in equal fashion but were ranked differently. The compromise was eventually to unrank both.

THis change is kinda lacking mainly due to A: The upcoming shift and B: Something else :]

 

[thesecondbest]

Why is medicham so low? just wondering.

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

It gets no extra boosts and it has pathetic defenses and a mediocre 100 speed. As a fighting type physical wallbreaker, it is generally preferred to use Mega Heracross instead.

As to not double post, I'll put a few nominations here:

Kabutops from A- to A/A+: It just fell back down to NU, and is now even better than it was. It is incredibly fast, hits incredibly hard, and can boost with swords dance or clear hazards with rapid spin.

Whimsicott from C+ to C: It never was very good in the first place, but losing 5 from each stat hinders it a lot. It lost some of its already mediocre bulk, and now has even less SpA. Its only saving quality is prankster, and even that is gimmicky.

Heliolisk from unranked to C+/B-: It would be higher, if not for the tier changes. It is now UU, so it gets only +5, leaving it at merely 114 Spe. It is now easily outsped by common pokemon such as Cobalion, which is terrible for a glass cannon.

 

[thesecondbest]

oh yeah, sorry, i forgot about the latest rule change.
Also, marowak for at least d. thick club doubles attack, and it gets a huge boost, so the boost doubles as well. Now that mega camel is banned and in ru it has a niche on tr, and although cress to uu hurts it, cress also walls it pretty hard.
in addition what about a fletch raise?

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Gothitelle and Wobbuffet have been removed as a result of the Shadow Tag ban
Now that Shadow Tag is gone, what improves? Plus, what got new boosts worth mentioning in the most recent tier shift?

And now, I'd like to make a very controversial nom right away, now that we're out of the Shadow Tag test:

A ---> S Rank

This seems absurd, I know, but it's well established in viability rankings that Politoed is as good as rain is and lets face it, rain is the best playstyle in Tier Shift right now. With the dropping of Kabutops to NU and Kingdra and Noivern to RU, Rain has more toys than ever to play with. Very little can handle a repeated barrage of the swift swim mons, and Politoed is the cornerstone pokemon which allows them to work so easily. I can expand if needed, but this seems to be a pretty apparent and needed change.

 

[leng loi]

Nominating Wobbuffet for Nostalgia Rank

"In the arms of the angel, fly away from here, from this dark cold hotel room, and the endlessness that you fear."

~Wobbuffet​

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Peef is an Idiot and Forgot To Update

A ---> S

A- ---> A+

Unranked ---> A-

Unranked ---> B

Unranked ---> C+

C+ ---> C-

Sorry this took so long, I've had a lot of chaos recently and its just been a messy few weeks. Should be good for regular updates now though!

Miltank and Kingdra are two solid mons we overlooked with the initial list, so we added them in. Feel free to nominate whatever!

 

[thesecondbest]

Is ninetales really deserving of an A- rank? I haven't seen any sun teams EVER. I understand shiftry and victreebel improve but rain is clearly the superior weather. Just wondering.
Also magneton to A, it's definitely better than B rank. +15 makes it stronger than big bro, and it's good even as an analytic volt switch user. Plus it's on all of the peef teams :S

 

[insanelegend]

I would like to make a few nominations that I think would be reasonable.

Mamoswine C- to B-
Mamoswine is too far down. It boasts 135 Attack backed up by good offensive typing and priority. With the LO offensive set it is able to 2HKO many walls in the metagame and apply an enormous amount of pressure to offensive teams. Freeze Dry can be utilized to break past some pokemon that would otherwise counter it, such as Slowbro and Rotom-Wash. The lead set has the ability to ignore sash with Icicle Spear, set up Stealth Rock, and take advatage of its own Focus Sash with Endeavor. Overall it is a powerful and offensive pokemon that has the ability to do a lot of damage.

Manectric-Mega D to B
Just because it has no boosts does not mean it is in any way bad. Looking at S Rank there are two pokemon: Mega Sharpedo and Politoed (aka rain). Mega-Manectric can check Mega Sharpedo well with intimidate, and forcing it out if it has already mega evolved means it will be stuck without any speed boosts and have a much harder time cleaning. Mega-Manectric can serve as a revenge killer and ofensive pivot, with blistering 135 base Speed, Volt Switch, and Intimidate. It grabs a ton of momentum for its team and serves as a soft check to many threats to offensive (Scarf Jirachi, Mega Sharpedo, Tornadus-Therian, Kabutops in rain, Gyardos, Mega Gyarados, Azumarill, Manaphy, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, etc). The amount of help it gives any offensive team merits it at least B Rank, maybe even B+.

 

[Deathly ♛The King]

/me revives thread

Mandibuzz: D+ --> B+
Mandibuzz is way, way too low. It is a great mixed wall, being able to match Skarmory's physical bulk while maintaining good special bulk. Its access to moves such as Roost, Defog, Knock Off, and Foul Play allow it to preform its role even better. Its typing allows it to wall things that stall teams have trouble with such as Reuniclus and Gengar. The only reason it wouldn't be higher is the typing, as it is weak to multiple common types, such as Fairy and Rock.

Ludicolo: A --> A+
I don't think I need to explain this much. In rain, there is barely anything that can switch in on it and beat it. It has fairly good coverage in Ice Beam / Hydro Pump / Giga Drain, and is even capable of running Focus Blast to beat normal types. Also Kabutops and Ludicolo should be in the same one.

Diancie-Mega: A- --> B/B-
Diancie is somewhat underwhelming from what I've seen and used. Rock Polish sets are incapable of breaking past most walls and some bulkier offensive Pokemon and still die to priority, Calm Mind sets die to faster Pokemon and priority, and all out attacking sets lose to faster Pokemon and priority, but can beat a few more walls. Its speed tier is still good, but now quite a few Pokemon outspeed it, such as Cobalion. Its now less impressive speed and its average bulk, as well as being forced to run mixed sets, make it unworthy of A-.

Also, Landorus-I is no longer usable, make it gtfo

 

[Kingslayer2779]

I'm going to nominate a whole bunch of things:

Umbreon: unranked----> B-

Umbreon is often overlooked due to competition at the cleric spot in the form of Sylveon, Chansey, and Audino. Umbreon sets itself from the pack by having access to Foul Play and Taunt. While this might not seem like a big deal, the fact that it has the best mixed bulk and defensive potential of the 3 merits it at least a ranking.

Flareon unranked ------> C-

While generally considered unviable due to its, low speed, poor defensive bulk, horribly bad movepool, and other types generally being better, it does have a slight niche as a cleric with Wish and Will-o-Wisp. its not hugely relevant so D rank is fine too, but it could use a rank.

Scyther B+-------> A-

A very scary threat to balance teams, capable of outspeeding many offense mons and capable of wallbreaking with Swords Dance, Scyther is very strong and fast, and can even hold Eviolite to increase bulk enough to live a Blizzard from Mega Obama. its just an exceptional pokemon in the metagame and deserving of an A rank.

Tornadus-I D+---> B

Tornadus is much too low. Its great in rain teams as a secondary setter, and can spam Hurricane. Easily competes with Thundy for the role. Is decent outside of rain as well, Prankster Taunt can be useful, though its main use is rain support.

Honchkrow unranked----> B

Overlooked so far by the viability rankings, Honchkrow has a sweet 130 attack and STAB sucker punch. Pursuit can help trigger moxie more freely, which can lead to sweeps.

Togetic unranked ------> B

Togetic is extremely bulky with 70/100/120 defenses and eviolite to spare, it is the bulkiest non mega fairy in Tier Shift. With 95 Special attack and usable coverage, it is not overly passive. However it is reliant on eviolite to hit full potential bulk, and lacks a useful ability.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

6/14/15 Changes

Mandibuzz: D+ --> B

Togetic: Unranked --> D+

Honchkrow: Unranked --> B+

Umbreon: Unranked --> C+

Flareon: Unranked --> D

Ludicolo: A --> A+

Tornadus: D+ --> B

Scyther: B+ --> A-

Mamoswine: C- --> B-

Diancie-Mega: A- --> B+

reasoning

18:44 Kingslayer b- seems odd for mandibuzz i feel likes its better then empoleon
18:44 DTKek b fits it imo
18:44 PeefRimgar whats the best mandibuzz set rn anyways
18:44 PeefRimgar i agree from seeing it its better than emp
18:44 Kingslayer bulky defog
18:44 Kingslayer defense and sp.def are good
18:45 PeefRimgar i mean duh but what moves specifically
18:45 DTKek defog/roost/foul play/I think toxic?
18:45 Kingslayer foul play/toxic/defog/roost with knock off slashed on foul play and taunt on defog
18:45 Kingslayer so it can kinda stall break sorta
18:46 DTKek and whirlwind slashed with whatever the fuck you think it should be used instead of
18:46 Kingslayer i feel like defensive sets are better
18:46 Kingslayer more special electric and ice attackers
18:46 PeefRimgar I'll throw it in b (glares at ks)

18:48 PeefRimgar togetic sounds like ass just tbh but ive seen it literally once
18:48 Kingslayer its not
18:48 DTKek togetic is ass
18:48 DTKek there's no reason to use it
18:48 DTKek
18:48 Kingslayer its got 95 special attack
18:48 DTKek ooh scary
18:48 Kingslayer 70/100/120 balk
18:48 Kingslayer and evio
18:48 DTKek bad imo tho
18:48 Kingslayer its bulky as fuck
18:49 DTKek Its not as good as it seems on paper
18:49 PeefRimgar id throw it like in d unless you give me replays telling me to do otherwise
18:49 DTKek d+ works imo
18:50 Kingslayer 252 Atk Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Togetic: 162-192 (47.2 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
18:50 Kingslayer how is that bad?
18:50 Kingslayer it almost walls friggin scarf ttar
18:50 Kingslayer mind you 100 is the weaker side
18:50 Kingslayer defense i mean
18:51 PeefRimgar what aboyt
18:51 PeefRimgar them sneeky pebbles
18:51 PeefRimgar it cant rlly wall anything too relevant can it?
18:51 Kingslayer IT WALLS LUDICOLo
18:51 Kingslayer WHOOOAAAAA
18:51 PeefRimgar bullshit lmao
18:51 Kingslayer IN RAIN
18:51 Kingslayer 252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Togetic in Rain: 129-152 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
18:51 Kingslayer LETS GO
18:51 Kingslayer NOT EVEN AUDINO DOES THAT
18:52 PeefRimgar nice 248/252+/252+ spread bw
18:52 PeefRimgar btw
18:52 Kingslayer w/e
18:52 Kingslayer sp.def seems better
18:52 PeefRimgar going spdef does have merit ill give you
18:52 Kingslayer yeah it looks better then defensive
18:52 DTKek dusclops walls it too
18:52 DTKek does that make dusclops good?
18:52 Kingslayer i just grabbed the ru set
18:52 PeefRimgar i mean toge has a niche + walls ludi
18:53 Kingslayer dusclops gets rekted cause no recovery
18:53 DTKek dusclops is annoying af
18:53 DTKek rest x_x
18:53 PeefRimgar dusclops isnt the point lmao
18:53 Kingslayer plus fairy flying is good defensive typing
18:53 DTKek true
18:53 PeefRimgar i'm putting it in D+ for now
18:53 DTKek except sneaky pebbles
18:53 PeefRimgar get me some replays and it can shoot on up

18:59 PeefRimgar any debate for honchkrow?
18:59 DTKek never used it or seen it used so idk
18:59 Kingslayer its actually pretty good
18:59 PeefRimgar powerful af, pursuit trap + moxie is cute as fuck
18:59 Kingslayer sucker is nice too
18:59 PeefRimgar yeh
18:59 PeefRimgar im down for B+ tbh
19:00 Kingslayer doesn't dark/flying hit half the tier for netural
19:00 Kingslayer and superpower covers the rest
19:00 PeefRimgar p much
19:00 Kingslayer like ttar and bisharp
19:00 Kingslayer so its coverage is flat out amazing
19:01 Kingslayer it can get out of control fast cause of moxie
19:01 Kingslayer and roost is cute
19:01 Kingslayer i'm down with B+
19:01 Kingslayer its difficult to wall due to great coverage, and moxie pursuit is nice against offense

19:05 Kingslayer so umbreon
19:05 PeefRimgar i am the pisslord
19:06 PeefRimgar of shit mountain
19:06 Kingslayer its got great mixed bulk
19:06 DTKek ye
19:06 Kingslayer rofl
19:06 DTKek and it can act as a cleric
19:06 PeefRimgar i feel like its harder to justify with mandi everywhere
19:06 Kingslayer yeah but its got competition
19:06 Kingslayer i feel like it deserves rank though
19:06 Kingslayer its hard to say something adrian uses doesn't deserve rank
19:07 DTKek he used offense against me earlier
19:07 DTKek he used fucking rain
19:07 Kingslayer C/C+ is fine if you think its niche
19:07 Kingslayer LOL
19:07 Kingslayer ADRIAN USING RAIN
19:07 DTKek C+ at least imo
19:07 Kingslayer WAT
19:07 PeefRimgar C+ soudns good

19:08 PeefRimgar flareon
19:08 Kingslayer since its got alot of competition, but its got good niche qualities
19:08 PeefRimgar i wish i could say no
19:08 DTKek gross flareon
19:08 PeefRimgar i rlly do
19:08 Kingslayer same
19:08 Kingslayer but then like
19:08 PeefRimgar but adrian kinda draged me with it
19:09 Kingslayer wisp sub actually kinda works
19:09 Kingslayer needs a note
19:09 Kingslayer don't ever use for offense sets
19:09 DTKek yes
19:09 DTKek plz
19:09 Kingslayer because its literally a shitmon for pure offense sets
19:09 PeefRimgar it should run like
19:09 Kingslayer bulky wisp/wish protect is the only justifiction
19:09 PeefRimgar wisp/morning sun/sub/blitz
19:09 PeefRimgar wait wish
19:09 Kingslayer yeah
19:10 Kingslayer it has wish protect too
19:10 Kingslayer not that its hp is any good
19:10 PeefRimgar doesnt get sun ;;
19:10 PeefRimgar yeah 80 hp iusnt doing too much wishpass wise
19:10 Kingslayer rofl
19:10 Kingslayer it doesn't get sun
19:11 Kingslayer okay wish/protect/wisp/blitz
19:11 Kingslayer and maybe heal bell somewhere
19:11 Kingslayer actually no
19:11 Kingslayer thats bad
19:11 Kingslayer it needs wisp imo
19:12 PeefRimgar its like
19:12 PeefRimgar d/d-
19:12 Kingslayer sure
19:12 PeefRimgar its better than donphan, ill give it d

19:13 Kingslayer do we need justifcation to move ludicolo up
19:13 Kingslayer it has like single digit switch ins
19:13 PeefRimgar literally just
19:13 PeefRimgar its fucking ludicolo
19:13 Kingslayer chansey/togetic/goodra/tentacruel
19:13 Kingslayer oh and mantine which isn't that great
19:14 PeefRimgar does mantine take several gigas?
19:14 Kingslayer and when jynx is one of your main checks
19:14 DTKek *inserts and dusclops to please the nubs*
19:14 Kingslayer oh yeah
19:14 Kingslayer it takes a bunch of gigas
19:14 Kingslayer can't do shit back but toxic though

19:40 PeefRimgar torn
19:40 DTKek k
19:40 Kingslayer so torn
19:40 Kingslayer supporting rain= instant B rank imo
19:40 Kingslayer or higher
19:41 Kingslayer its just as good of a setter as Thundy imo
19:41 Kingslayer thundy has more value outside of Rain though
19:41 DTKek I'd go with b
19:41 Kingslayer Torn-I is pretty much restricted to rain support.
19:41 Kingslayer otherwise therian is better
19:42 DTKek Yeah it should be below therian
19:42 Kingslayer but Torn-I's hurricanes tear up alot of rain checks, and focus blast hits ferrothorn
19:42 DTKek yeah
19:43 PeefRimgar so B?
19:43 Kingslayer also heat wave if you want to hit thorn, and don't mind the nombo with Rain
19:43 Kingslayer i say B
19:43 Kingslayer unless you disagree
19:43 PeefRimgar i have no opinion so it is
19:43 PeefRimgar so b*

19:47 Kingslayer Scyther nows
19:47 PeefRimgar scyther im iffy on
19:47 Kingslayer its pretty versatile for a mon with a shit movepool and meh typing
19:48 PeefRimgar its strong and a big part of voltturn
19:48 PeefRimgar but its typing is literally anus
19:48 Kingslayer band hits hard as fuck
19:48 PeefRimgar ass doesnt work
19:48 DTKek >using band
19:48 PeefRimgar its the asshole
19:48 PeefRimgar anyways
19:48 Kingslayer band is great
19:48 PeefRimgar band is usable at least
19:48 DTKek sd and great bulk are its greatest assets imo
19:48 Kingslayer stronk aerial ace spam and quick attack
19:49 Kingslayer can check ludicolo with evio lol
19:49 Kingslayer thats always relevant
19:52 Kingslayer anyway like i said scyther is scary to balance teams
19:52 PeefRimgar i cant rlly dispute a rise ig
19:52 Kingslayer since we have less dedicated answers to set up, and it outspeeds alot of common balance mons
19:53 Kingslayer it threatens offense too
19:53 Kingslayer that speed is just marvelous
19:53 Kingslayer ofc pebbles trips it up
19:53 PeefRimgar dtkek do you strongly disagree?
19:55 DTKek I think it can go up

19:56 PeefRimgar mamoswine then
19:56 Kingslayer okay
19:57 DTKek I agree with it
19:57 PeefRimgar what was it nommed for?
19:57 Kingslayer if he did he deleted it
19:57 DTKek c-
19:57 Kingslayer mamo to b-
19:57 DTKek wait b-
19:57 Kingslayer from c-
19:58 Kingslayer mamo is pretty fucking strong
19:58 DTKek yeah
19:58 PeefRimgar plus gets weird good coverage with freeze dry
19:58 DTKek lol
19:59 DTKek and it can act as a sr setter too\
19:59 Kingslayer freeze dry is so fucking weird
19:59 PeefRimgar im down with b-
19:59 Kingslayer but good
19:59 Kingslayer same

INSERT SALT HERE

As to not out 300 lines of KS and DTK arguing on IRC, it's being dropped due to weakness to common mons and playstyles, like Rain, Sharpedo-Mega, Amoongus, etc.

So we went about this week's nms differently, getting the three of us currently involved in the tiering in an IRC so we could have comprehensive reasoning to post here. This'll probably be how it isfrom now on generally, since it makes our decisions much more transparent (aka saves me time for having to explain them on my own). If you're interested in joining our discussions, PM me and I'll consider.

 

[leng loi]

Tornadus is much higher than B in my opinion. It can pave the way for Swift Swim sweepers with Hurricanes and Focus Blasts. Most rain "counters" can't deal with this type combination and it can wear down a lot of checks. Outside of rain, it can still take advantage of the prevalence of these pokemon in the metagame. Because of this, I am nominating Tornadus for A- Rank.

I would also like to make another nomination and that is Gourgeist-Small for B Rank. Without sacrificing much bulk, this incredibly unique pokemon can be a dedicated defensive wall or pivot. It has an amazing speed tier, sitting at 109 speed. It also has good 65/132/85 bulk and can spread burns and recover with Leech Seed and Substitute. It can also utilize Phantom Force to gain even more recovery. It has amazing immunities to normal and fighting types, and can use this to spinblock and increase it's ability to switch in.

 

[thesecondbest]

Seconding, gourgeists are Jesi

 

[Funbot28]

Guess now is a good time to review rankings after Swift Swim ban...

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Guess now is a good time to review rankings after Swift Swim ban...

A larger overhaul will be on the way, I'll have to get everyone together before it's finished however so it'll be a bit

 

[leng loi]

Peef isn't dead guys!