Unpopular opinions

False. Play pokemon mystery dungeon and you know what I am talking about.



... ok

But anyway yeah, like Pikachu315111 I don't consider spinoffs to be part of a "gen" and I don't usually lump them in with the main series considering they have an entirely different playstyle and entirely different staff (including composers) working on them, so that's why I didn't mention mystery dungeon! They do have the best music. But they also have a different composer from DPPt etc.
 
[



... ok

But anyway yeah, like Pikachu315111 I don't consider spinoffs to be part of a "gen" and I don't usually lump them in with the main series considering they have an entirely different playstyle and entirely different staff (including composers) working on them, so that's why I didn't mention mystery dungeon! They do have the best music. But they also have a different composer from DPPt etc.
OK, I didnt actualy read that. And I didnt know the compositors being different. (But you still agree that the musics on Pmd are better).
...sorry. But I was right.
 
I don't think Lopunny/Gardevoir are attractive at all. I'm not saying they're them ugly, I just don't get why everyone keeps sexualizing them and calling them "waifu" and stuff like that.
I know! Especially when we have 'mons like Alolan Ninetales to yiff to...STOP JUDGING ME!

I missed the Team Magma and Aqua discussion but wanted to mention a few things (I'm more knowledgeable about Magma, so I'll comment on them):

1) The grunts seem pretty motivated at their level for the cause, at least. I recall one grunt talking about building a house on cooled magma. There's another who tries explaining the logic to the protagonist (something like more land=more places to live for people and Mons, "Everybody will be happy!"), so he seems enamoured with the idea. So the organization seemed motivated as Pika already touched on.
2) I think Magma cam be taken somewhat seriously, at least more than Galactic. Recall in Emerald that Magma infiltrated the Space Center in Mossdeep with plans to steal jet fuel, for the purpose of dumping it into Mr. Chimney to force an eruption (Maxie says 'It will be savage!'). This seems like a very heinous act. And yes, I know Galactic used bombs to blow up lakes and threaten to blow up a town, but I feel their organization is too goofy and outlandish, not to mention having a detached and bland leader in Cyrus.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.
They look goofy, but that's about it. I always took them relatively seriously, unlike Team Aqua/Magma. Though to be fair, they were still better than Team Skull.

Team Galactic: Um, something about energy?
Cyrus wanted to destroy the world and create a new one, one without spirit. Why? No kriffing clue.

an approach that gets you absolute garbage like Mega Evolution, Z-Moves and a talking 'dex.
.
Mega Evolution is not garbage. It's a cool mechanic that breathed life into many old 'mons, especially forgotten ones.And there were some good base rules that kept them from being broken as a concept: +100 BST only, must hold a Mega Stone, only one Mega Evolution per battle (which they did break stupidly with the Primals and Mega Rayquaza). The main problem is that some where made too powerful, but how is that any different than a non-Mega being over powered? Seriously, would things like Mega Mawile (former Uber resident) be better if it was just a plain evolution? NO! It would have been MORE powerful (Choice Band, anyone?)! The problem with Mega Evolution was more how certain Megas were made (already powerful 'mons, relying on the same strong abilities again and again, and balancing them in Doubles only) than the concept or the basic rules for them.
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
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Cyrus wanted to destroy the world and create a new one, one without spirit. Why? No kriffing clue.
In Platinum its explained Cyrus's parents were neglectful which resulted in Cyrus preferring to spend more times around machines and computers. You can probably see where this is going. Cyrus saw machines being superior to people, they do what you want and there's no emotions or differing opinions to get in the way, so Cyrus began seeing those things as problems with the world. He eventually got so fed up that he decided to RECREATE THE UNIVERSE...

Yeah, even when you know his backstory there's still a major jump. Actually for all the villains aside from Giovanni, Lysandre, Guzma, & Lusamine we don't really know the "trigger event(s)" that caused them to do something so extreme. It's one thing to believe the world would be better if there was more water/more land/no emotion/under one's rule but it's another to go through with it without there being some event(s) that convinces you the world can't go on as it is and must act.

Also I was more talking about what the Team's goals were, not the leader's true plans.
 
Okay, this one might be controversial, but I think Pokemon should be more willing to make use of "Hopeless Boss fight" tropes in some games, or at least a fight that you can progress without winning. It breaks my suspension of Disbelief when an organization like like Team Rocket or Galactic is established as a regional terrorist or such organization, and yet their entire plot can be undone by some kid who got his first Pokemon that week and at most one or two of his friends. B/W Team Plasma I grant some leniency since they get the Gym Leaders involved and they make your use of the mascot legendary integral to matching them in battle. It makes it hard for me to ever regard them as a narrative threat when they can be dismantled by a couple newbies.

The thing that makes Team Rocket (or any villain) threatening in the manga is that they can and DO stomp the main characters in battle on multiple occasions, which says that even if the main characters could keep up with where they would be going like we can, they wouldn't be able to match them head on, and the characters' ability to beat them later makes the point as to why they have to be the ones to do it. The defining example for me is the "Diamond and Pearl Adventures" manga (distinct from Special), where up until literally the last confrontation, Hareta struggles to win against the Galactic Admins and outright never beats Cyrus WHILE being supported by the Gym Leaders. It supports the idea that there's something unique about the protag beyond just being the protag (in Hareta's case, having Pokemon-like instincts to connect with his team) when they win while still making the villains an obstacle by threat rather than simply by presence.

To give an example, it could play like Gen 4 did in DP Adventures: In Celestic Town, Cyrus shows up to investigate the cave, maybe with an Admin like Mars accompanying him. You battle said Admin while Cyrus looks over the mural, and manage to beat them despite being a difficulty spike. Cyrus tries to walk away, and you have the option to challenge him. If you fight him, his team is the same level as it would be during the lategame Galactic Building battle, making him leagues above any member you've fought and even the Gym Leaders. If you're very overleveled or just able to struggle through, you can win the battle, but the game progresses regardless (without the usual whiting out) since this battle is you trying to fight the head despite the outcome being the same: Cyrus still knows about the Lake trio. It gives you an end goal to shoot for by seeing how strong Cyrus is with the notion he could be even stronger later, and that even if you won here, struggling indicates you need to be better prepared for another fight.

Even the Mystery Dungeon games have done this with the Grovyle boss in Explorers. It's mostly alien to the main games since the system doesn't let them control how strong the player is at a given point, but other RPG's have used this to great effect, and it would go a long way towards my suspension fo disbelief in the game's story. I watch playthroughs of the games, and everyone regards the villains as a complete joke despite being played as unironic threats in universe because the game design undermines it completely.
 
Even the Mystery Dungeon games have done this with the Grovyle boss in Explorers.
Wait, was that supposed to be a Hopeless Boss Fight?

All I remember is that he beats you in the cutscene following the fight.

(I'd have picked the first phase of the Entei battle in Super Mystery Dungeon as a more appropriately hopeless fight)
 
Okay, this one might be controversial, but I think Pokemon should be more willing to make use of "Hopeless Boss fight" tropes in some games, or at least a fight that you can progress without winning. It breaks my suspension of Disbelief when an organization like like Team Rocket or Galactic is established as a regional terrorist or such organization, and yet their entire plot can be undone by some kid who got his first Pokemon that week and at most one or two of his friends. B/W Team Plasma I grant some leniency since they get the Gym Leaders involved and they make your use of the mascot legendary integral to matching them in battle. It makes it hard for me to ever regard them as a narrative threat when they can be dismantled by a couple newbies.

The thing that makes Team Rocket (or any villain) threatening in the manga is that they can and DO stomp the main characters in battle on multiple occasions, which says that even if the main characters could keep up with where they would be going like we can, they wouldn't be able to match them head on, and the characters' ability to beat them later makes the point as to why they have to be the ones to do it. The defining example for me is the "Diamond and Pearl Adventures" manga (distinct from Special), where up until literally the last confrontation, Hareta struggles to win against the Galactic Admins and outright never beats Cyrus WHILE being supported by the Gym Leaders. It supports the idea that there's something unique about the protag beyond just being the protag (in Hareta's case, having Pokemon-like instincts to connect with his team) when they win while still making the villains an obstacle by threat rather than simply by presence.

To give an example, it could play like Gen 4 did in DP Adventures: In Celestic Town, Cyrus shows up to investigate the cave, maybe with an Admin like Mars accompanying him. You battle said Admin while Cyrus looks over the mural, and manage to beat them despite being a difficulty spike. Cyrus tries to walk away, and you have the option to challenge him. If you fight him, his team is the same level as it would be during the lategame Galactic Building battle, making him leagues above any member you've fought and even the Gym Leaders. If you're very overleveled or just able to struggle through, you can win the battle, but the game progresses regardless (without the usual whiting out) since this battle is you trying to fight the head despite the outcome being the same: Cyrus still knows about the Lake trio. It gives you an end goal to shoot for by seeing how strong Cyrus is with the notion he could be even stronger later, and that even if you won here, struggling indicates you need to be better prepared for another fight.

Even the Mystery Dungeon games have done this with the Grovyle boss in Explorers. It's mostly alien to the main games since the system doesn't let them control how strong the player is at a given point, but other RPG's have used this to great effect, and it would go a long way towards my suspension fo disbelief in the game's story. I watch playthroughs of the games, and everyone regards the villains as a complete joke despite being played as unironic threats in universe because the game design undermines it completely.
Wait, was that supposed to be a Hopeless Boss Fight?

All I remember is that he beats you in the cutscene following the fight.

(I'd have picked the first phase of the Entei battle in Super Mystery Dungeon as a more appropriately hopeless fight)
An better exemple would be in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Sky, in the part that Bidoof fight the Snover and the other guy, where you need to lost so the guild can save you.
 
I dunno, part of what appeals me about the pokemon series is that the gameplay is "fair" on all sides. Gym leaders and other boss trainers might resort to some dirty tactics to make a match challenging (or pokemon you can't get yet without trading), but they are never using things the player can't or won't eventually have access to. I mean, there's minor things like Lance's Barrier Dragonite or Ghetsis' underleveled Hydreigon, but nothing too blatant.

Very few RPG's are this "fair".

The "hopeless" boss fight trope usually relies on screwing the rules in the name of plot, and that's taking away one of the things I love most about pokemon. It breaks my suspension of disbelief when such a blatant case of gameplay and story segregation occurs and throws me into a fight I literally can't do anything to win just to show the villain is a serious threat. Always seems like a waste of my time, wake me up when anything I do actually matters again.

Now I have a different opinion of "Beef Gates", a similar but different trope where the game throws a higher than expected challenge at the player to coerce them into following a path. An example could be the placement of Guardians in Breath of the Wild, their terrifying presence meant to scare the player away from exploring certain sections of Hyrule before others. It's the same design goal (orchestrate gameplay events), but different in practice as beef gates can be beaten (it's just really really hard to do so before the game expects you're "ready"). Which gives that sweet feeling when you defeat a challenge set by the game waaaaay earlier than it wanted (to keep with the Zelda metaphor, making a beeline from the plateau to Ganon by shield reflecting lasers left and right like Fox only on Final Destination).

But on the other hand, the totem pokemon from SuMo are all about breaking fair game rules to deliver a challenging fight (with their stat boosting auras), and they were one of the best parts of SuMo so maybe we've already moved past preserving fair gameplay in favor of challenge/story.
 
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Sinnoh's routes definitely have samey-looking tiles that make the whole region seem uniform. There are 'ehh' tracks/missed opportunities on the OST (I don't care for the Route 210 song, and the Gym/E4 music being the same with minor differences, being examples of the former and latter problems). It gave us Bidoof, which is widely considered a poor design. It gave us a really wacky evil team (which I described in earlier posts). And there are other issues with DPPt. Despite all this, Platinum is probably my most played version and my second favorite. This is for several reasons:

1) The upgrades to the Pokedex gave the region soo much variety and flavor. You get some nice gift Mons in Eevee, Porygon, and Togepi (was Togepi Plat only?). It gave players opportunities to be exposed to the new evos of 1st/2nd gen Mons, in the wild or in battle, during the main story. It also let Flint have a full Fire type team, and gave new signature Mons to some Gym Leaders/E4 members.
2) This game is, in my experience, the toughest one for me to Nuzlocke. Whenever I fail I find myself returning to it again (after I cool off of course).
3) It might just be me but I like the look of Sinnoh, despite it being samey. And Platinum gave some nice touches (snow in Twinleaf, the new grassy patch pattern, revamped Gym designs, etc).
4) Many of the tracks in the OST resonate well with me and make me nostalgic, despite picking this game up in HS and starting from Gen 1. Favorites of mine include the Eterna Forest theme, the Old Chateau theme, Stark Mountain, and Route 209. And that's only a few off the top of my head).

So...is having Platinum as one of my top faves, despite Sinnoh's flaws, an unpopular opinion?

Edit: Another potential unpopular opinion: I like Flint's team in DP. Despite only having 2 Fire types, there were moves in the non-Fire type Mons' movesets that would take advantage of Sunny Day (except Drifblim). It also meant he couldn't be a "free win" by anyone using Surf/EQ.
 
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Unwinnable boss fights are a pretty good idea for the main series. The Unwinnable Mystery Dungeon fights are supposed to be Unwinnable Winnable Fights - fights that you're supposed to lose, and the story assumes you lose, but are beatable with enough perseverance. Some games even reward the player for winning unwinnable fights. It's a great concept for RPGs...but I'm not a massive fan of it applying to villainous team bosses. As Stage said Pokemon should feel fair against other trainers, but I feel legendaries and the like would be fair game for this. I remember during the S/M speculation that some people thought the UBs would be Hopeless Boss Fights unless you had your legendary with their signature move. The first Nihilego fight in the Aether Paradise would've been a fine opportunity to add it. It flees if you don't kill it fast enough, and it's said to not like being in this world, so it beating you and then fleeing probably wouldn't be too hard to justify, and it'd be a perfect chance to show the player just how powerful the UBs were. This could also be done in future games when fighting the signature legendary for the first time.
 
Wait, was that supposed to be a Hopeless Boss Fight?

All I remember is that he beats you in the cutscene following the fight.

(I'd have picked the first phase of the Entei battle in Super Mystery Dungeon as a more appropriately hopeless fight)
The Grovyle fight I recall proceeds the same whether you win or lose against Grovyle, so I think they expected at least some players to lost to him.

I dunno, part of what appeals me about the pokemon series is that the gameplay is "fair" on all sides. Gym leaders and other boss trainers might resort to some dirty tactics to make a match challenging (or pokemon you can't get yet without trading), but they are never using things the player can't or won't eventually have access to. I mean, there's minor things like Lance's Barrier Dragonite or Ghetsis' underleveled Hydreigon, but nothing too blatant.

Very few RPG's are this "fair".

The "hopeless" boss fight trope usually relies on screwing the rules in the name of plot, and that's taking away one of the things I love most about pokemon. It breaks my suspension of disbelief when such a blatant case of gameplay and story segregation occurs and throws me into a fight I literally can't do anything to win just to show the villain is a serious threat. Always seems like a waste of my time, wake me up when anything I do actually matters again.

Now I have a different opinion of "Beef Gates", a similar but different trope where the game throws a higher than expected challenge at the player to coerce them into following a path. An example could be the placement of Guardians in Breath of the Wild, their terrifying presence meant to scare the player away from exploring certain sections of Hyrule before others. It's the same design goal (orchestrate gameplay events), but different in practice as beef gates can be beaten (it's just really really hard to do so before the game expects you're "ready"). Which gives that sweet feeling when you defeat a challenge set by the game waaaaay earlier than it wanted (to keep with the Zelda metaphor, making a beeline from the plateau to Ganon by shield reflecting lasers left and right like Fox only on Final Destination).

But on the other hand, the totem pokemon from SuMo are all about breaking fair game rules to deliver a challenging fight (with their stat boosting auras), and they were one of the best parts of SuMo so maybe we've already moved past preserving fair gameplay in favor of challenge/story.
I feel like it's sacrificing a bit of gameplay fairness for a sense ludonarrative harmony. It's actually not Gameplay/Story segregation in my suggestion, which is for the villain to have a team as strong as when you're intended to beat them. It breaks my immersion more when the gameplay requires you to win every time, but narratively continues to use characters who don't logically progress the way you do. Why would the Rocket Admins or Galactic Admins bring weaker teams to operations once they know someone is around who can and will meddle in their plans? Gen 2 original got away with it since the Admins were generic, but making them distinct characters raised that issue again. N had the logical reason of his team being implicitly assembled just before the battles so I accept those on the same level I accept progression of wild Pokemon levels. But someone like Mars doesn't go for a training montage grinding Chanseys or biking past the daycase after you beat her Level 18 Purugly to get it up to Level 40 for the Lake Verity battle, they have jobs to do within their organization. Going back to the manga, they make the point that even when the villains use their lesser mons to toy with/gauge the heroes, they have their strongest on them in case things go South.

The Gym Leaders make sense since they have an organized ruleset to handwave their varying power levels, but people like Proton have no reason to go easy on you if you've stomped the grunts and are clearly trying to shut down their operations. The villains don't have any presence when they're always designed to be beaten at your current power. I get what you mean about the trainers being fair, but that's just it, the villains are the type who wouldn't play fair or pull punches. And I'm not advocating this as a regular thing, but the main thing I'm getting at is that beating the same characters frequently throughout the campaign undercuts the ability to perceive them as a credible antagonist, something the villains of the main series have fallen victim to in every case except Team Plasma, since N was more about his ideology and rotated his team while Ghetsis was only fought once in each game at the peak of his strength. Lynsandre I might give leniency to since his team is similar all three times bar evolutions that are easy to reach, and the fights seem more about buying time than actually stopping you outright.

Unwinnable boss fights are a pretty good idea for the main series. The Unwinnable Mystery Dungeon fights are supposed to be Unwinnable Winnable Fights - fights that you're supposed to lose, and the story assumes you lose, but are beatable with enough perseverance. Some games even reward the player for winning unwinnable fights. It's a great concept for RPGs...but I'm not a massive fan of it applying to villainous team bosses. As Stage said Pokemon should feel fair against other trainers, but I feel legendaries and the like would be fair game for this. I remember during the S/M speculation that some people thought the UBs would be Hopeless Boss Fights unless you had your legendary with their signature move. The first Nihilego fight in the Aether Paradise would've been a fine opportunity to add it. It flees if you don't kill it fast enough, and it's said to not like being in this world, so it beating you and then fleeing probably wouldn't be too hard to justify, and it'd be a perfect chance to show the player just how powerful the UBs were. This could also be done in future games when fighting the signature legendary for the first time.
My only issue with applying it to something like the Legendaries is that unless it's the same method I suggested for the Villain boss of using their much later "proper" level, you have to explain away why they're not this strong when you capture them. It also tends to entail a lot of other details that may be specific to them compared to the villains' probably having similar reasonings for starting and leaving after the fight: why you can't catch them; what motivates them to attack you to initiate the fight; what pacifies them afterwards; what ties them to the plot if they're not the villain's objective; etc.

The main thing is I think they need to consider how to use the Hopeless Boss Fight trope if the antagonist is intended as a threat for their power, compared to Plasma being their ideology and propaganda or Skull being a joke mainly interfering by persistence.
 
Sinnoh's routes definitely have samey-looking tiles that make the whole region seem uniform. There are 'ehh' tracks/missed opportunities on the OST (I don't care for the Route 210 song, and the Gym/E4 music being the same with minor differences, being examples of the former and latter problems). It gave us Bidoof, which is widely considered a poor design. It gave us a really wacky evil team (which I described in earlier posts). And there are other issues with DPPt. Despite all this, Platinum is probably my most played version and my second favorite. This is for several reasons:

1) The upgrades to the Pokedex gave the region soo much variety and flavor. You get some nice gift Mons in Eevee, Porygon, and Togepi (was Togepi Plat only?). It gave players opportunities to be exposed to the new evos of 1st/2nd gen Mons, in the wild or in battle, during the main story. It also let Flint have a full Fire type team, and gave new signature Mons to some Gym Leaders/E4 members.
2) This game is, in my experience, the toughest one for me to Nuzlocke. Whenever I fail I find myself returning to it again (after I cool off of course).
3) It might just be me but I like the look of Sinnoh, despite it being samey. And Platinum gave some nice touches (snow in Twinleaf, the new grassy patch pattern, revamped Gym designs, etc).
4) Many of the tracks in the OST resonate well with me and make me nostalgic, despite picking this game up in HS and starting from Gen 1. Favorites of mine include the Eterna Forest theme, the Old Chateau theme, Stark Mountain, and Route 209. And that's only a few off the top of my head).

So...is having Platinum as one of my top faves, despite Sinnoh's flaws, an unpopular opinion?

Edit: Another potential unpopular opinion: I like Flint's team in DP. Despite only having 2 Fire types, there were moves in the non-Fire type Mons' movesets that would take advantage of Sunny Day (except Drifblim). It also meant he couldn't be a "free win" by anyone using Surf/EQ.
As much as people love to shit on Sinnoh, Platinum is usually hailed as one of the best main series Pokemon games, alongside BW2. Both have a great story, large Pokemon variety and lengthy post game, something that unfortunately isn't present in these newer games...
 

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
Sinnoh's routes definitely have samey-looking tiles that make the whole region seem uniform. There are 'ehh' tracks/missed opportunities on the OST (I don't care for the Route 210 song, and the Gym/E4 music being the same with minor differences, being examples of the former and latter problems). It gave us Bidoof, which is widely considered a poor design. It gave us a really wacky evil team (which I described in earlier posts). And there are other issues with DPPt. Despite all this, Platinum is probably my most played version and my second favorite. This is for several reasons:

1) The upgrades to the Pokedex gave the region soo much variety and flavor. You get some nice gift Mons in Eevee, Porygon, and Togepi (was Togepi Plat only?). It gave players opportunities to be exposed to the new evos of 1st/2nd gen Mons, in the wild or in battle, during the main story. It also let Flint have a full Fire type team, and gave new signature Mons to some Gym Leaders/E4 members.
2) This game is, in my experience, the toughest one for me to Nuzlocke. Whenever I fail I find myself returning to it again (after I cool off of course).
3) It might just be me but I like the look of Sinnoh, despite it being samey. And Platinum gave some nice touches (snow in Twinleaf, the new grassy patch pattern, revamped Gym designs, etc).
4) Many of the tracks in the OST resonate well with me and make me nostalgic, despite picking this game up in HS and starting from Gen 1. Favorites of mine include the Eterna Forest theme, the Old Chateau theme, Stark Mountain, and Route 209. And that's only a few off the top of my head).

So...is having Platinum as one of my top faves, despite Sinnoh's flaws, an unpopular opinion?

Edit: Another potential unpopular opinion: I like Flint's team in DP. Despite only having 2 Fire types, there were moves in the non-Fire type Mons' movesets that would take advantage of Sunny Day (except Drifblim). It also meant he couldn't be a "free win" by anyone using Surf/EQ.
I do have to agree that Platinum was a very noticeable upgrade over DP. I started off with Platinum as my first game, so I'm a bit biased, but when I later on got Diamond, it just felt much worse. For me, Platinum had some very important changes:
- The bigger pokedex. In particular, not getting more than 2 fires was irksome in DP.
- The gym leader order. I think someone had talked about this earlier, but the order of the gyms in DP was rather odd and it required more and more backtracking.
- THE DISTORTION WORLD. MY GOD THAT WAS AWESOME. It felt absolutely fantastic to walk on wall, down waterfalls, jump from huge pits casually, and be surrounded by randomly reappearing and disappearing plants. I remember I tried fishing in the Distortion World just to see what would happen. :-)
- The new Elite 4 teams. I didn't really hate Flint's DP team that much but his new team is just so much better and more competent at battling. IMO the E4 in Sinnoh is really easy all the same though.
Really though, I just love Sinnoh. I'm biased because it was my first region, but when I look at the criticisms of it all I see are moot points that honestly could be applied to any other region. In fact, let's go ahead and do that!

I hate Hoenn.

I mean, this isn't that unpopular, but considering the recent r/pokemon poll showing that a lot of people have played Hoenn (Emerald was the most played game by a lot), it just might be.

- The design of the region. If you look at the map you're gonna see that it loops twice, both ending in Mauville City. I know that Sinnoh has this, but the loops are not ginormous. In Hoenn, they are. It gets annoying. I won't deny Sinnoh's are too.
- OH GOD THE HMs. I think Hoenn has the biggest problems with too much HM abuse. As I said earlier, in Sinnoh you could get off without Defog entirely, Flash as well, and that Rock Climb was rare. Other regions were even nicer with their HMs, most notable Unova. Unfortunately, the same could not be said about Hoenn. Everywhere I see things I have to cut, or Rock Smash, or use Strength. Tons of the region is water so that's another one (be honest here. I'm not trying to be a meme but quite a bit of the region is water - I'd say 40% at most and 30% at least). While the game does give you Linoone as a good HM slave, it's just not on par with Bibarel, and is not enough.
- Speaking of the water meme, there is too much water. I know this sounds stupid, but I don't believe it's ok to make nearly 40% of the region water. Then comes the fact of diving. It's long, tedious, and confusing - I nearly got lost. It also fails to significantly contribute much to the experience, and it also fails to differentiate itself enough from standard on-land travel. When I first got a Hoenn game, I thought it'd be some grand adventure. I was wrong. Regardless of diving, I felt like I had to spend way too much time on the water trying to progress. There are I believe 4 mandatory water routes, and they are really quite large. For the comparison, Kanto had two, only one of which was leaning towards the long side (and even then it wasn't that long). Johto had one small one in the middle of the region, more of a roadblock of anything to force you to get Surf, and half of one on the way to Victory Road. Sinnoh had one large one (I will admit, it's pretty large) and one small one post-game. Unova (BW2) IIRC had none at all, or maybe 1. Kalos had none. Alola, IIRC had none.
- As I've gone on about for a rather long time, I didn't like Team Aqua/Magma.
- I didn't like the soundtrack. I know this is subjective, but way too many people treat this objectively and say it's the best. I get the idea of trumpets, but like, I personally found the tracks to be weak, not as fitting or just flat out inferior to other region's OSTs. IMO it had the weakest OST of the whole series sans Kalos.
- There's no post-game areas outside of Emerald, and even then those areas aren't exactly strong. They for sure don't stack up to Sinnoh's post-game island, Unova's post-game half-region and John's going to Kanto (though I felt that Kanto wasn't long enough personally).

I could go on about other things, but those would be way too subjective for this (The music isn't because I've heard way too many people saying it's objectively better because of trumpets. Not on Smogon, but elsewhere, it's a huge problem). But tl;dr the design had lots of looping around, there's tons of HM abuse, there's too much water, diving sucked, Team A/M sucked, trumpets don't magically make the soundtrack better, and the post-game sucks when it exists.

In Platinum its explained Cyrus's parents were neglectful which resulted in Cyrus preferring to spend more times around machines and computers. You can probably see where this is going. Cyrus saw machines being superior to people, they do what you want and there's no emotions or differing opinions to get in the way, so Cyrus began seeing those things as problems with the world. He eventually got so fed up that he decided to RECREATE THE UNIVERSE...

Yeah, even when you know his backstory there's still a major jump. Actually for all the villains aside from Giovanni, Lysandre, Guzma, & Lusamine we don't really know the "trigger event(s)" that caused them to do something so extreme. It's one thing to believe the world would be better if there was more water/more land/no emotion/under one's rule but it's another to go through with it without there being some event(s) that convinces you the world can't go on as it is and must act.

Also I was more talking about what the Team's goals were, not the leader's true plans.
We did know Lusamine's trigger. Her husband was studying the UBs and disappeared, causing her to fall into monomania about them. I mean, I was glad that we got Lusamine because she proved to be as dark as Cyrus, which was big for me.

Damn this all took forever to write.
 
It gave us Bidoof, which is widely considered a poor design.
Bidoof is a great design, it's super goofy and more importantly memorably so
also considering how much is brought out I honestly doubt is hated so much as made fun of, which is intended, you're suppoused to find it silly; people who actually hate it's design are the same people who argue that no ugly, dopey or otherwise unattractive character should depicted in fiction ever and everyone should be pretty pretty pretty

people who hate Bidoof hate comedy


as for your character never losing I said it before; you're playing Alexander the Great in every game, you're an unbeatable genius loved by all that can tame gods and befriend them by literally just walking with them, you acomplish things that experts in their fields could only dream of with the greatest of ease, you're stronger more competent and smarter than not just the police but the equivalent of James Bond and you can become a Pop Star, Movie Star or other big celebrity as an aside all before you're old enough to drive

pokemon protaginsts aren't just special, they're Legends among Men
 

Pikachu315111

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Unwinnable Fights:The only way I can see "unwinnable fights" working is if they decide to try a "level cap" system. Essentially there's only a certain level you can raise your Pokemon too and to increase the cap you need to win Badges/Trials/whatever. Ideally this might convince players to try leveling their Pokemon evenly and trying out other Pokemon if their main team reaches the cap (note a Pokemon at the cap doesn't lose the experience, instead they store it until the cap is increases when the experience takes affect, like what they did in the Colosseum games) and make actually challenging boss fights (including maybe unwinnable fights, but I'm more thinking making the Gym Leaders/Rivals/Villain Team Admins & Boss/Elite Four/Champion a challenge by either having their Pokemon at or even slightly above the cap).

I feel like it's sacrificing a bit of gameplay fairness for a sense ludonarrative harmony. It's actually not Gameplay/Story segregation in my suggestion, which is for the villain to have a team as strong as when you're intended to beat them. It breaks my immersion more when the gameplay requires you to win every time, but narratively continues to use characters who don't logically progress the way you do. Why would the Rocket Admins or Galactic Admins bring weaker teams to operations once they know someone is around who can and will meddle in their plans? Gen 2 original got away with it since the Admins were generic, but making them distinct characters raised that issue again. N had the logical reason of his team being implicitly assembled just before the battles so I accept those on the same level I accept progression of wild Pokemon levels. But someone like Mars doesn't go for a training montage grinding Chanseys or biking past the daycase after you beat her Level 18 Purugly to get it up to Level 40 for the Lake Verity battle, they have jobs to do within their organization. Going back to the manga, they make the point that even when the villains use their lesser mons to toy with/gauge the heroes, they have their strongest on them in case things go South.

The Gym Leaders make sense since they have an organized ruleset to handwave their varying power levels, but people like Proton have no reason to go easy on you if you've stomped the grunts and are clearly trying to shut down their operations. The villains don't have any presence when they're always designed to be beaten at your current power. I get what you mean about the trainers being fair, but that's just it, the villains are the type who wouldn't play fair or pull punches. And I'm not advocating this as a regular thing, but the main thing I'm getting at is that beating the same characters frequently throughout the campaign undercuts the ability to perceive them as a credible antagonist, something the villains of the main series have fallen victim to in every case except Team Plasma, since N was more about his ideology and rotated his team while Ghetsis was only fought once in each game at the peak of his strength. Lynsandre I might give leniency to since his team is similar all three times bar evolutions that are easy to reach, and the fights seem more about buying time than actually stopping you outright.
Actually I think levels are sort of meant to be a meta concept, a gameplay method to show you're getting stronger. In universe I think the factor of "level" is more meant to be a reference to the trainer's and Pokemon's bond, experience, and battling skills. While Gym Leaders may have different teams based on how many Badges a challenging trainer have, the levels for trainers who are supposed to be using the same Pokemon (like the Rivals & Villain Admins/Boss) is more meant to be taken at what battling prowess are they at, not that the villain admin took an hour to grind experience on wild Pokemon. Think of Pokemon levels sort of like the Scouter Levels in Dragon Ball Z.

We did know Lusamine's trigger. Her husband was studying the UBs and disappeared, causing her to fall into monomania about them. I mean, I was glad that we got Lusamine because she proved to be as dark as Cyrus, which was big for me.
I said we knew Luasmine's trigger along with Giovanni, Lysandre, & Guzma.

Giovanni: More of a casual development, he wanted to be the strongest trainer that uses the strongest Pokemon and slowly this grew to him creating an organization to make that possible, albeit through criminal means. Hm, okay, there's definitely room for development in their but it's not an extreme jump as Archie, Maxie, Cyrus, and Ghetsis took.
Lysandre: Started out wanting to do good but eventually drove himself mad as he learned no matter how much money he put into improving lives there will still be people living poorly and researching why made him believe the few rich are taking the majority of resources leaving little for everyone else (or will eventually).
Guzma: Unable to live up to his father's expectations (and getting physically beaten for it) as well as not seeing improvement from Hala's training and being denied being a Captain, it drove him to despising the Alolan culture. One day when his father was about to beat him he had enough, beat up his father, got kicked out of the house, and sought to gather the other Alolan rejects to strike back against Alola and the Island Challenge.
Lusamine: As you said, her husband's (Moyn) disappearance caused her to obsessively try finding him, developing Type: Nulls to possibly fight the Ultra Beasts. However she got exposed to Nihilego's neuortoxins that drove her further mad, turning her obsession to find her husband to obsession over the Ultra Beasts.

But the others?
 
I said we knew Luasmine's trigger along with Giovanni, Lysandre, & Guzma.

Giovanni: More of a casual development, he wanted to be the strongest trainer that uses the strongest Pokemon and slowly this grew to him creating an organization to make that possible, albeit through criminal means. Hm, okay, there's definitely room for development in their but it's not an extreme jump as Archie, Maxie, Cyrus, and Ghetsis took.
Lysandre: Started out wanting to do good but eventually drove himself mad as he learned no matter how much money he put into improving lives there will still be people living poorly and researching why made him believe the few rich are taking the majority of resources leaving little for everyone else (or will eventually).
Guzma: Unable to live up to his father's expectations (and getting physically beaten for it) as well as not seeing improvement from Hala's training and being denied being a Captain, it drove him to despising the Alolan culture. One day when his father was about to beat him he had enough, beat up his father, got kicked out of the house, and sought to gather the other Alolan rejects to strike back against Alola and the Island Challenge.
Lusamine: As you said, her husband's (Moyn) disappearance caused her to obsessively try finding him, developing Type: Nulls to possibly fight the Ultra Beasts. However she got exposed to Nihilego's neuortoxins that drove her further mad, turning her obsession to find her husband to obsession over the Ultra Beasts.

But the others?
Well, it's hard to tell with the others because we know so little about them

Maxie: We know nothing about his past
Archie: He's been fiends with Shelly since highschool and knew Jirachi? He was chosen by Jirachi to be granted a wish? Maybe he was friends with Jirachi? We don't know...
Ghetisis: He's a descendant of the legendary king Harmonia from the Abyssal Ruins? He has a superiority complex and thinks he's perfect so he want to rule the world, is it because of the legends of his ancestor?

Now as for Cyrus what makes him scary for me is that I met people like that (well Ok they wheren't exactly tying to destroy the universe); as an ace I met people that pop culture keeps saying lack some fundamental part of humanity and some get bitter about it, some learn to think that that thing they "lack" just make people act like idiots so they kinda learn to look down on them and, well things get creepy after that...

let's just say Cyrus "hate al emotions" thing reminds me of some very hateful people and leave it at that
 
Last edited:

Deleted User 400951

Banned deucer.
I said we knew Luasmine's trigger along with Giovanni, Lysandre, & Guzma.

Giovanni: More of a casual development, he wanted to be the strongest trainer that uses the strongest Pokemon and slowly this grew to him creating an organization to make that possible, albeit through criminal means. Hm, okay, there's definitely room for development in their but it's not an extreme jump as Archie, Maxie, Cyrus, and Ghetsis took.
Lysandre: Started out wanting to do good but eventually drove himself mad as he learned no matter how much money he put into improving lives there will still be people living poorly and researching why made him believe the few rich are taking the majority of resources leaving little for everyone else (or will eventually).
Guzma: Unable to live up to his father's expectations (and getting physically beaten for it) as well as not seeing improvement from Hala's training and being denied being a Captain, it drove him to despising the Alolan culture. One day when his father was about to beat him he had enough, beat up his father, got kicked out of the house, and sought to gather the other Alolan rejects to strike back against Alola and the Island Challenge.
Lusamine: As you said, her husband's (Moyn) disappearance caused her to obsessively try finding him, developing Type: Nulls to possibly fight the Ultra Beasts. However she got exposed to Nihilego's neuortoxins that drove her further mad, turning her obsession to find her husband to obsession over the Ultra Beasts.

But the others?
Must have misread your post, sorry. If you don't mind me brining up the Aqua/Magma argument again, not knowing a trigger is what made me think they weren't too personal about it. We never get a reason as to why Maxie and Archie would do what they did. I'm assuming it's because Maxie thinks that's the most intelligent way to move mankind forwards because he's a very logical man, and as for Archie, I'm guessing it's because he just likes the sea? These are all just guesses here. When their trigger isn't known and all you have is guessing (my guess for Maxie I'm pretty confident in but he rarely takes things very personally so idk and Archie I have no idea) it seems a lot less personal - combine this with their incompetency, and that just makes me think rather lowly of the two.
As for Ghetsis, honestly, other than the Harmonia king thing we can say the guy is truly evil. Threatening to freeze the player - which kind of implies killing - is something no other leader would even get close to, sans maybe Lusamine (who is insane). He exploits N, a mere child! I can say that overall he's just flat out heartless - he cares not about how others are affected at all. Cyrus is more heartless - his plan gets rid of the whole world! While Ghetsis's plan pales in comparison, we at least know Cyrus's trigger. We don't really know Ghetsis's for sure.
 

Pikachu315111

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Well, it's hard to tell with the others because we know so little about them

Maxie: We know nothing about his past
Archie: He's been fiends with Shelly since highschool and knew Jirachi? He was chosen by Jirachi to be granted a wish? Maybe he was friends with Jirachi? We don't know...
Ghetisis: He's a descendant of the legendary king Harmonia from the Abyssal Ruins? He has a superiority complex and thinks he's perfect so he want to rule the world, is it because of the legends of his ancestor?
Is Ghetsis a descendant to the past Unova king? True, both have the last name Harmonia, yet it's never made into a point unlike it was in XY where Lysandre is said to be a descendant of AZ's younger brother and that's partially why he's doing what he's doing.

I always thought Pokemon should make a side game series where you're a member of the villain team. Not only to show off how exactly the villain organization works and what the daily life for them is like, but also to give more backstory and characterization to the admins & boss.

Now as for Cyrus what makes him scary for me is that I met people like that (well Ok they wheren't exactly tying to destroy the universe); as an ace I met people that pop culture keeps saying lack some fundamental part of humanity and some get bitter about it, some learn to think that that thing they "lack" just make people act like idiots so they kinda learn to look down on them and, well things get creepy after that...

let's just say Cyrus "hate al emotions" thing reminds me of some very hateful people and leave it at that
I think we call those people sociopaths.
 
okay so here's a list of my ass opinions
  • cynthia wasn't the hardest although she is on of my favourites champion bop
  • diantha isn't given enough credit, nor is gen6, being quite a large milestone in graphics and game development
  • kalos mons had some of the best designs and just because they're different doesn't mean they're "ugly"
  • POKEPARK IS ONE OF THE BEST GAMES IN THE SERIES STOP SLEEPING ON IT
  • i wish one day that there will be a gay or any sexuality other than straight character, hopefully it'll teach kids something (yes we had that moment w shauna if you were female character but that really doesn't count) and flamboyant or shy male characters don't count
  • Pokemon Battle revolution was better than Colosseum, it also had the best soundtracks in the series
 

Pikachu315111

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okay so here's a list of my ass opinions
"ass opinions"? I figured you forgot a letter, but I can't quite figure out what word you actually meant.

okay so here's a list of my ass opinions
  • diantha isn't given enough credit, nor is gen6, being quite a large milestone in graphics and game development
  • POKEPARK IS ONE OF THE BEST GAMES IN THE SERIES STOP SLEEPING ON IT
  • i wish one day that there will be a gay or any sexuality other than straight character, hopefully it'll teach kids something (yes we had that moment w shauna if you were female character but that really doesn't count) and flamboyant or shy male characters don't count
  • Pokemon Battle revolution was better than Colosseum, it also had the best soundtracks in the series
1. I think Gen 6 really needed that Z version. Diantha seemed like an interesting character but she had nothing to do in XY aside being the Champion. She wasn't involved in any way with the Team Flare plot and only appeared two times before the Champion battle just to establish her character. It actually makes me sort of like what they did Kahili in SM, we're told about her but never see her until, surprise, she's a member of the Elite Four. But back to Diantha, I want to know exactly how someone as busy as an actress (which she started as a kid) was able to become (and properly serve as) the Champion. Thinking about it, maybe they could have user her stardom in the plot. After Lysandre makes his "you're all going to die" speech, maybe have Sycamore contact you to see him. You go to him and he's with Diantha and they explain that Lysandre's speech is going to cause massive panic and they need to calm the people. Diantha can do this, but they can't access the Holo Caster and so need the players (and the other rivals) to help storm the Holo Caster station so that Diantha can give out a speech to calm everyone. You do so (maybe also having an encounter with Malva) and Diantha gives her speech, meanwhile you also learn how to access the Ultimate Weapon control facility.
Gen VI will be remembered as the generation that brought the Pokemon games into proper 3D and introduce the Fairy-type and Mega Evolutions, but that's what most it'll be remembered for (at least for XY). XY was a backstep from Gen V in terms of story, which is sad as what little story there is has good moments (especially the Looker Missions). Also it left many questions unanswered, more than the usual paired games.

2. I would like for them to expand upon the battling mechanics from the Poke Park games, even if its in another game. Like yeah, we have Pokken and GO which is sort of like the Poke Park battling, but they're not exactly like the Poke Park battling which is more live action RPG battling.

3. Not sure if you know, but Shauna's fireworks scene with the female players has a different context to it. She says "Um... You know... I really hope we get to be great friends, (player)...". Granted, you could take it as her being shy about being in what you could call a romantic situation with another girl, but if that was the case it's not as blatant as it is with her telling the boy character she hadn't been by herself with a boy before. Same thing happened with Lillie, on Exeggutor Island they had a shiptease moment with the boy ("I think...I'd like to become a Trainer, too. And travel together with you, (player)...") but was changed to more innocent admiration for the girl ("I want to become a Trainer, and learn all the things you know, (player)..."). I'd say the most lesbian moment in Pokemon is in ORAS where we have Sr. and Jr. on Sea Mauville who locked themselves in a room alone together. When you interrupt them the Sr. is angry while the Jr. is blushing, strongly hinting they were probably making out. No particular gay moments, aside some "close nakama" moments, though I think if they made Steven and Wallace lovers no one would be surprised (same for Elesa and Skyla).
Anyway, if they do ever have gay characters I think making it an "obvious subtle" one would be for the best. I think in the Pokemon world homosexual relationships would be more accepted (mainly cause everyone is obsessed with Pokemon politics) so it should be treated as a "norm". Like one idea comes from a fan made Pokemon game, I think it's Omicron. The Daycare couple are two men and one says that him and his husband hae been together for years. That's a great and sweet way to incorporate the complex issue of homosexuality into a kid's game: treat it like it's something normal.

4. They're a bit too different to compare. Revolutions is more comparable to the Stadium games while the Colosseum games trying to be a pseudo main series game but on a console and not following the usual format. I think people were disappointed with Revolution was because Colosseum gave them the freedom of the main series game: able to run around and explore. Poketopia looks like it would be a fun location to run around in, but the game is mostly done via through menus. There's also a lack of a story mode, you're just battling for the sake of battling. If you're not into competitive battling, I can see how Revolution might get boring after a while since it was just battle modes. Might as well played Showdown if you're a member of Smogon. Though you're right, the music is pretty great.
 
"ass opinions"? I figured you forgot a letter, but I can't quite figure out what word you actually meant.



1. I think Gen 6 really needed that Z version. Diantha seemed like an interesting character but she had nothing to do in XY aside being the Champion. She wasn't involved in any way with the Team Flare plot and only appeared two times before the Champion battle just to establish her character. It actually makes me sort of like what they did Kahili in SM, we're told about her but never see her until, surprise, she's a member of the Elite Four. But back to Diantha, I want to know exactly how someone as busy as an actress (which she started as a kid) was able to become (and properly serve as) the Champion. Thinking about it, maybe they could have user her stardom in the plot. After Lysandre makes his "you're all going to die" speech, maybe have Sycamore contact you to see him. You go to him and he's with Diantha and they explain that Lysandre's speech is going to cause massive panic and they need to calm the people. Diantha can do this, but they can't access the Holo Caster and so need the players (and the other rivals) to help storm the Holo Caster station so that Diantha can give out a speech to calm everyone. You do so (maybe also having an encounter with Malva) and Diantha gives her speech, meanwhile you also learn how to access the Ultimate Weapon control facility.
Gen VI will be remembered as the generation that brought the Pokemon games into proper 3D and introduce the Fairy-type and Mega Evolutions, but that's what most it'll be remembered for (at least for XY). XY was a backstep from Gen V in terms of story, which is sad as what little story there is has good moments (especially the Looker Missions). Also it left many questions unanswered, more than the usual paired games.

2. I would like for them to expand upon the battling mechanics from the Poke Park games, even if its in another game. Like yeah, we have Pokken and GO which is sort of like the Poke Park battling, but they're not exactly like the Poke Park battling which is more live action RPG battling.

3. Not sure if you know, but Shauna's fireworks scene with the female players has a different context to it. She says "Um... You know... I really hope we get to be great friends, (player)...". Granted, you could take it as her being shy about being in what you could call a romantic situation with another girl, but if that was the case it's not as blatant as it is with her telling the boy character she hadn't been by herself with a boy before. Same thing happened with Lillie, on Exeggutor Island they had a shiptease moment with the boy ("I think...I'd like to become a Trainer, too. And travel together with you, (player)...") but was changed to more innocent admiration for the girl ("I want to become a Trainer, and learn all the things you know, (player)..."). I'd say the most lesbian moment in Pokemon is in ORAS where we have Sr. and Jr. on Sea Mauville who locked themselves in a room alone together. When you interrupt them the Sr. is angry while the Jr. is blushing, strongly hinting they were probably making out. No particular gay moments, aside some "close nakama" moments, though I think if they made Steven and Wallace lovers no one would be surprised (same for Elesa and Skyla).
Anyway, if they do ever have gay characters I think making it an "obvious subtle" one would be for the best. I think in the Pokemon world homosexual relationships would be more accepted (mainly cause everyone is obsessed with Pokemon politics) so it should be treated as a "norm". Like one idea comes from a fan made Pokemon game, I think it's Omicron. The Daycare couple are two men and one says that him and his husband hae been together for years. That's a great and sweet way to incorporate the complex issue of homosexuality into a kid's game: treat it like it's something normal.

4. They're a bit too different to compare. Revolutions is more comparable to the Stadium games while the Colosseum games trying to be a pseudo main series game but on a console and not following the usual format. I think people were disappointed with Revolution was because Colosseum gave them the freedom of the main series game: able to run around and explore. Poketopia looks like it would be a fun location to run around in, but the game is mostly done via through menus. There's also a lack of a story mode, you're just battling for the sake of battling. If you're not into competitive battling, I can see how Revolution might get boring after a while since it was just battle modes. Might as well played Showdown if you're a member of Smogon. Though you're right, the music is pretty great.
the thing is w girl x girl relations ships is that they're much more universal and accepted by guys and girls cause the whole "lesbians are hot" ideal sadly still somewhat exists. i feel as if gamefreak made something like grimsley x N a 'thing' it would be much less accepted

but thanks for taking the time to read those and respond
 

Pikachu315111

Ranting & Raving!
is a Community Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributor
the thing is w girl x girl relations ships is that they're much more universal and accepted by guys and girls cause the whole "lesbians are hot" ideal sadly still somewhat exists. i feel as if gamefreak made something like grimsley x N a 'thing' it would be much less accepted

but thanks for taking the time to read those and respond
Indeed, though as I said if they went with Steven X Wallace I don't think anyone would have a problem (though they are hot guys). Actually, speaking of N, that reminds me of the Ferris Wheel "dates" which reminds me of the "gay" Hiker date the boy has (though it's more played for laughs, especially in BW2 when the same Hiker is a date for the girl and he's sad that the BW boy is no longer around to take ferris wheel rides with him). There's also the changed ferris wheel date the boy has, there's a Nurse date which is eventually revealed to be trans in the Japanese version.
 

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