[WIP] Groudon Update (Ubers)

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus

A True Behemoth​

[OVERVIEW]

Groudon is one of the best physical attackers you will come across in Ubers thanks to its solid bulk, good boosting move, meaty base 150 Attack, and immunity to Thunder. It is built like a tank with solid base 100 / 140 / 90 defenses which can be augmented in a way to take just about any attack in the game. Groudon has the strongest Earthquake in the game which is backed up by great coverage in Rock Slide and its Fire-type attacks. Its access to Thunder Wave make Lugia, Latias, and Latios all cry, especially when it has a reasonably powerful Hidden Power Ghost or extremely strong Double-Edge to resort to. Groudon's ability, Drought, is just icing on its already impressive cake not only because of sunlight's ability to double the Speed of Chlorophyl users such as Exeggutor and Shiftry, but also because it drops the accuracy of Thunder to an abysmal 50%, powers up Groudon's own Fire-type attacks, and removes its weakness to Water-type attacks. The only problems Groudon has are its weakness to Ice Beam and the existence of Kyogre, Lugia, Latias, and Latios, even though all of these Pokemon do not like switching into Groudon at all. Groudon is one of the biggest threats in ADV Ubers and should never be underprepared for.

[SET]
name: Offensive Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Double-Edge / Hidden Power Ghost
move 4: Rock Slide / Thunder Wave
item: Leftovers
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

The main goal of this set is to figuratively break defensive teams mid-game. Swords Dance boosts Groudon's Attack to unbelievable levels and between Earthquake, Double-Edge, and Rock Slide you can hit anything just about anything in the game with a very strong neutral attack at least. Hidden Power Ghost hits Gengar harder than anything else on the set and has 20 more base power against Psychic-type Pokemon than Double-Edge, but it is extremely weak against Kyogre switch-ins which is a big deal seeing how it will always have partners immune to Earthquake attacks. Thunder Wave cripples many of Groudon's switch-ins but takes up a coverage slot, making it a less effective mid-game team breaker. Thunder Wave also provides a partnered Ho-Oh or Snorlax with a free switch in against Latias as it tries to Refresh. Fire Blast can be used to 2HKO the rare Skarmory, who sets up Spikes and phazes Groudon freely otherwise. Magneton, Latios, 2 attack Latias, Kyogre, and Raikou all deal with Skarmory easily and Forretress can Rapid Spin away its hazards if Fire Blast is not carried on Groudon. The EVs outpace maximum Speed Magneton and no Speed Jirachi while still giving Groudon maximum power and respectable bulk. An alternate spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD with 0 Speed IVs and a Brave nature can be used on sun based teams that want Groudon to get up sun vs Kyogre consistently.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]

Blissey, Forretress, Magneton, a Choice Band Lugia locked into Shadow Ball or Earthquake, and most Snorlax are all examples of Pokemon that Groudon can use Swords Dance against in order to begin damaging an opposing team. Snorlax and Ho-Oh are offensive examples of Ice Beam switch-ins to partner with Groudon while Blissey is a defensive example. Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Aerodactyl, Deoxys-A, and Whirlwind Lugia help take care Exeggutor should it decide to come in on Groudon. The biggest problem that Groudon faces is when it gives a free switch in to Kyogre, Latias, or Latios after it has KOed another Pokemon. Keep this in mind when deciding if you want to KO the Pokemon in front of you or not. Use Double-Edge liberally to discourage or punish Latias, Latios, Kyogre, Rayquaza, and offensive Lugia if they decide to switch in.

[SET]
name: Choiced Behemoth
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Double-Edge
move 3: Rock Slide
move 4: Hidden Power Ghost / Fire Blast
item: Choice Band
ability: Drought
nature: Adamant
evs: 160 HP / 236 Atk / 16 Def / 96 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

This set has a goal of breaking teams, but with a lot more immediate power at the cost of not being able to switch moves. This makes Double-Edge a fantastic move on Choice Band Groudon due to how much of the game it covers neutrally and the Steel-types that resist it fearing Groudon's powerful STAB Earthquake. Rock Slide helps Groudon power through Lugia and hit Skarmory for neutral damage at least. Hidden Power Ghost covers Gengar and hit Psychic-types for 20 base power more than Double-Edge, but locking Groudon into it means you give Kyogre free reign to come in without taking all that much damage. Fire Blast is used to hit Skarmory super effectively but this move makes Groudon very appetizing bait for Latias, Latios, and Kyogre. The EVs make Choice Banded Lugia's Aeroblast a 3HKO while providing enough Speed to outrun max Speed Magneton and 0 Speed Jirachi. An alternate spread of 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD with a Brave nature can be used on sun based teams to consistently get up sun when facing Kyogre. A Maximum Attack and Speed investment can also be used with a Jolly nature in order to Speed tie at worst with other base 90 Speed Pokemon, and get the jump on most Rayquaza.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]

Double-Edge is your primary tool for breaking teams, doing very respectable damage to Kyogre, Latias, and Latios in a single attack, and weakening Steel-types for another Choice Banded Pokemon or physical set up sweeper. Use Earthquake ONLY if it is safe to do so, as Latias, Latios, Rayquaza, Ho-Oh, and Lugia all punish an Earthquake locked Groudon heavily. Double-Edge also has nasty recoil which adds up because Groudon is not carrying Leftovers. Keep this in mind if the opposing team has an unneeded Blissey, Snorlax, or Slaking as their massive HP stats will do a number to Groudon in recoil if Double-Edge is used.

[SET]
name: Specially Defensive ParaDancer
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Thunder Wave
move 4: Double-Edge / Rock Slide
item: Leftovers
ability: Drought
nature: Sassy / Careful
evs: 236 HP / 40 Atk / 232 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

This set has one high priority goal in paralyzing Latios, Latias, and Lugia switch ins Groudon. This set is built for the lead spot, but can be used elsewhere if needed at all. It will survive every special attack up to and including Modest Latios's Solar Beam from full HP and can take many weaker Ice Beams, from the likes of Blissey and Ice Punch Jirachi rather easily. Spreading paralysis should be Groudon's primary function, but it can do damage if the opportunity presents itself because with Swords Dance, high base 150 Atk, excellent 2 move coverage, and Groudon's heavy Special Defense investment, setting up and wrecking key team members can be easily accomplished.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

Ho-Oh, Snorlax, and offensive Lugia make the most out of paralyzed Latios and Latias, so one of them on Groudon's team is almost required. If Groudon's team is not Hyper Offense, Refresh Latias and possibly Latios are almost mandatory partners because of how well defensive Thunder Wave Kyogre switches into specially defensive Groudon. Hyper Offense teams with specially defensive Groudon don't need this necessarily, but will want plenty of strong special attackers with Thunder instead. The choice between Sassy nature and Careful nature on Groudon comes down to how important sun is to your team. Run 0 Speed IVs with Sassy natured Groudon to get up sun as often as possible against Kyogre, but if you do want Speed, you can run a Careful nature and use the Attack investment in Speed instead to get the jump on base 90s that run close to 0 Speed like defensive Kyogre.

[SET]
name: Substitute + Salac
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Swords Dance
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Hidden Power Ghost
item: Salac Berry
ability: Drought
nature: Jolly
evs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 204 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

This set turns Groudon from a terrifying team breaker into a very capable sweeper in a single turn due to the Salac Berry boost to its Speed when it reaches a quarter of its HP. Because it will be attempting to sweep at +1 Speed and with its HP quartered at least, Hidden Power Ghost is used in place of Double-Edge. The HP investment will allow Groudon to eat its Salac Berry after 3 uses of Substitute, and the Speed with a Jolly nature allows it outrun Deoxys-A after its Salac Berry is eaten. Hidden Power Ghost keeps Latias and Latios on their guard when they try to switch into Groudon and gives Groudon an attack to hit Lugia with after it has used Swords Dance. Rayquaza and Skarmory laugh at this set hard, but its better than having Latias and Latios laugh at it just as hard with Rock Slide instead.

[ADDITIONAL SET COMMENTS]

Because of what walls this set and its offensive nature, Magneton and offensive Lugia do a very good job using their ability to pressure and remove Skarmory for Groudon. Lugia has the added bonus of either tanking and 2HKOing Rayquaza, or pressuring Steel-types with Aeroblast's power and high crit ratio. This set doesn't need a great way of dealing with Kyogre but rather a way of weakening it instead. Spikes do an ample job of this, but using Forretress does limit Groudon's team options a bit. Several fast Choice Band users such as offensive Lugia, Rayquaza, Snorlax, and Deoxys-A help break down defensive Pokemon that give Groudon trouble.

[SET]
name: Support
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Toxic
move 3: Hidden Power Ghost
move 4: Fire Blast / Roar
item: Leftovers
ability: Drought
nature: Impish / Relaxed
evs: 248 HP / 88 Atk / 172 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]

Other Options
============

Rest is Groudon's only method of recovery outside of Leftovers, but it leaves it as bait for some of the most dangerous Pokemon in the metagame such as Kyogre, Latios, and Latias. Hidden Power Bug can be used over any mention of Hidden Power Ghost to hit Exeggutor much harder, but HP Ghost's coverage versus Gengar has much more value.

Checks and Counters
=================

Latios and Latias are by far the most dangerous checks and counters Groudon has, but they lack the ability to switch in reliably thanks to Hidden Power Ghost's coverage, Double-Edge's power, and Groudon's potential Thunder Wave. Kyogre does not like switching into Earthquake or Double-Edge, but easily KOs Groudon with rain boosted Water-type attacks. Rayquaza does not like Thunder Wave, Double-Edge, or Rock Slide but can hammer at Groudon with powerful physical or special attacks. Lugia is a pain for offensive Groudon sets, but it must watch out for Toxic from support Groudon. Choice Band Lugia can hammer away at Groudon with Aeroblast or special attacks while the defensive set slowly takes it down with Toxic.
 
Last edited:
double edge is garbage on all sets, pls remove. I also don't think restalk is worth mentioning at all
 
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Good to see some ADV Ubers revamps coming around.

As BKC said, RestTalk isn't very good at all. I'd like to see it replaced with this support set:

Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Atk / 168 Def
Impish / Relaxed Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Toxic
- Fire Blast / Roar

I don't remember what the EVs do exactly but the attack was to nab a certain KO. This set is extremely good at spreading status throughout the opposing team because Groudon scares out most mons that are immune to Toxic. It provides defensive utility against many physical threats and a good sponge for stall teams in general. HP [Ghost] 2HKOs the Lati@s so Refresh variants don't come in and wall you. Fire Blast scares off Skarm / Forre. This set really doesn't have too many switch -ins and is really annoying for stall, balance, and offense to play against.

If someone has a better spread, feel free to post it.
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
double edge is garbage on all sets, pls remove.
I don't understand why you think so. On my own teams I find it very valuable to hit Kyogre, Latios, Latias, Rayquaza, and Lugia (its nearly as strng as SE Rock Slide on the latter two) with a move nearly as powerful as STAB Earthquake. I realize you are basically walled by Gengar with 2 of your attacks, but Gengar is a lot easier to switch into than a Kyogre that was barely scratched by HP Ghost. I only mention it on Offensive Groudon because of the health draining side effect (the SpD don is an exception but for good reason), but on offensive Groudon its value is so unmatched that I nearly left it unslashed on the SD set. It would be great if you could elaborate on why you dislike it, but it is staying for now. I do agree with rest talk being removed though. I tried it once and it didn't impress me at all.

Also, ZoroarkForever the only sorta relevant calc I could find with your Groudon spread and moves was a 2HKO on no HP Mewtwo lol. I see its potential and will use it in the future so I can make good comments from experience, but if you could find out what the Attack was for, that would be great.
 

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