Resource XY/ORAS RU Tiering Info

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SilentVerse

Into the New World
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Hey all, and welcome to the XY RU Tiering Info thread! This thread's purpose is to keep you all updated on the state of tiering in XY RU as the tier progresses and keep track of past suspect tests, which should hopefully help people jump into the tier more easily. This thread will contain a few things that will (hopefully) constantly be updated, so be sure to keep checking this thread for updates!
  1. A list of the people who are on the current RU council and former council members.
  2. An explanation of how the RU tiering system will work once we become official, and what the current plan is now.
  3. Links to past tiering votes and short explanations for each.
  4. A list of the Pokemon that have been banned from RU.
The RU Council:

atomicllamas (Leader)
Spirit
49
Meru
DTC
Arifeen
-Tsunami-
Kushalos
FlamingVictini

Pending Members:

Nails (quit mons/not active enough)
New Breed (quit mons) (returned) (old gen loser now, lol)
Spirit (asked for it) (was asked if he wanted to rejoin and said yes)
Pearl. (asked for it)
SilentVerse (decided to step down from co-leadership)(was asked to rejoin and said yes)(stepped down cause busy and lame)
Hot N Cold (taking a break from / done with mons)
Afro Smash (2 inactive 4 me)
Omfuga (would rather play UU)
Arikado (too busy playing smash)
EonX (very inactive, rip ;-;)
-Tsunami- (inactivity)(reactivated)
galbia (PU)
Sweep (done w/ mons)
Scythe. (done w/ mons)
Molk (smash4)



The Plan:

While UU is following a plan that differentiates from OU's tiering process, RU will be following XY OU's process almost exactly. As soon as the tier becomes official, we will begin to have official suspect rounds that will allow any kind of user to vote on whether or not a Pokemon should be banned, so long as they reach the set ladder requirements that we will announce at the beginning of the round. At the end of each round, we will post a suspect voter identification thread, where users must post a screenshot of one of their accounts being above the set ladder requirements if they wish to vote. From there, we will have suspect discussion where users can discuss and debate on the suspects (these will be decided by the RU Council), before voting.

In this month before RU becomes official however, the RU Council will be working to remove threats that are very obviously broken, and harmful to the state of the tier. In these cases, the RU Council will vote amongst themselves on whether or not the broken Pokemon should be quickbanned or not, and the results of that vote will be posted in this thread.

As for a more general idea of the RU council, the council is meant to be a collection of some of the best players and contributors the tier has to offer. The RU council is meant to serve an advisory role, helping atomicllamas and Molk out with things regarding potential suspects, as well as with various issues/things going on in the tier (whether its the metagame discussion forum, RU C&C, the PS room, or the IRC channel). Keep in mind though that while their word is valued, it's not gospel.

The RU Council is also here to help all of you out, given they're meant to be some of the best players and contributors in the tier, they're some of the first people you should look to talk to if you ever need help on something involving the tier.
 
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SilentVerse

Into the New World
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
April 20, 2014 - Sableye, Kyurem, and Azelf quickbanned from RU.

So now that its 4/20 and everyone on the RU council has put in their votes, i'm here to announce the results of the three RU quicksuspects! I'll be including the tally for each and every Pokemon as well as the reasoning given from each voter in this post, all bans should be made on the RUbeta ladder shortly :).

Sableye: Is Banned, 8-0 in favor of ban

DTC:
Sableye: BAN

Specially defensive Sableye cripples many offensive and stall Pokemon alike. Between WoW weakening physical attack, and Knock Off removing the boosting item, it is challenging to break through. Sableye makes many Pokemon a lot worse in this metagame as it can effortlessly shut down any physical attacker that isn't Fire-type / holding a Lum Berry with Prankster WoW, while also being bulky on the special side. Defensive teams are forced to use one of the few special Fairy-types to beat it, and Knock Off goes a long way in crippling them longterm.

Tsunami:
Sableye: BAN

The epitome of a broken support Pokemon. Sableye shuts down way too many physical attackers in the tier with Prankster Will-O-Wisp, a move which is hard to switch into since there are really not many viable Fire-types in the tier outside of Moltres, Emboar, and Delphox. Delphox is obviously not going to enjoy taking a STAB Knock Off, and the other two are weakened / crippled from losing their item as well. Speaking of Knock Off, it's another reason why Sableye is broken. Sure, Pokemon such as Aromatisse are "perfect counters", but Sableye can cripple them for the remainder of the match by using Knock Off. Sableye shuts down too many Pokemon on both offense and stall, and Scald burns truly aren't too much of an issue usually since Sableye can out heal defensive Pokemon with Recover regardless. It can also easily afford to run 252 HP / 252 SDef with a Careful nature, as it really does not need any Defense investment due to Will-O-Wisp and its great typing. Fighting-types can hit it with Knock Off, but have to switch out due to the fear of Will-O-Wisp; after the first Knock Off, the second one is weakened regardless, so Sableye can usually Recover anyway. Overall, Prankster in tandem with Sableye's typing and movepool make it too large of a threat in the RU metagame, and one which deserves to be banned.

Hotncold:
Sableye: Ban

Most annoying pokemon in the tier, still underrated for a lot of people because their poor bulk stab base but is really bulky with the custom spread; Wisp with priority allow to beat physical threats along with Taunt to defeat defensive teams, with the special spread and recover priority can stall special threats as well specially if this things switch into Knock Off and loses their Life Orb/Specs item.

Tl;dr: broken stallbreaker which is gonna stall you to death unless you're using Moltres, Emboar or Aromatisse, in any case you're not gonna enjoy losing your current item and still stalls 5/6 mons of your team.

Molk:
Sableye: ban

Although it isn't an offensive behemoth like Kyurem or Azelf, Sableye is still a negative infleunce on the tier and deserves to be banned to BL2 for its support capabilities. The combination of Prankster Will-O-wisp, Prankster Taunt, and STAB Knock Off on a Pokemon with Prankster recovery simply makes it too easy for sableye to cripple a large section of the tier with ease. Priority Will-O-wisp ensures that Sableye can easily shut down pretty much any physical attacker that isnt a fire type/carries a lum berry, which is pretty damn limiting if you ask me, alongside this, Sableye's prankster Taunt makes it practically impossible for any defensive Pokemon not named Aromatisse to do its job as long as Sableye is on tyhe field. and thus it gives defensive teams major trouble. There are a few Pokemon such as Aroimatise, Moltres, and Emboar that can stand up to Sableye's Wow/Taunt/Recover combination, but even these Pokemon don't enjoy having their item Knocked Off, and because of Prankster Recover, Sableye can often simply outlast these threats.

Nails:

Sableye: Ban, it doesn't have much counterplay. You need to use a fire type with recovery (read: moltres) to avoid getting worn down with burn or knock off, and you can't break it easily with physical attacks because of burn or special attacks because it can knock off specs and taunt set up attempts. It is pretty fragile but it makes the opponent play predictably and has amazing synergy with most stall cores as well. It centralizes teams too far around having pkmn that can kill it.

Spirit:

Sableye: Ban

By far the most powerful support Pokemon in the tier. Sableye's ability to straight-up dismantle teams on its own while possessing limited counters / checks all the while having the ability to cripple its would-be switch-ins make it too much for the RU tier. There's really only two counters to Sableye ATM (Aromatisse and Emboar) and both of them are stripped of a lot of their utility upon switching into Knock Off. Aside from these two, your team needs extremely powerful special attackers such as Moltres or Yanmega to break through it. The thing is though, is that again, Knock off cripples a lot of the Pokemon that would normally try to switch into it. Aside from physical Fire-types, Sableye cripples damn near every physical attacker with ease, to the point where many are forced to run a Lum Berry to bypass it. Moreover, Sableye's influence on more bulkier teams is just as toxic, due to the fact that these teams lack powerful, special attackers, ultimately allowing Sableye to solo any defensive team lacking Aromatissse. This segues into my next point: should the opposing team have a Sableye of its own, the team with the Sableye that speed creeps the most ends up winning, which really shows the sheer impact this Pokemon has on the match. Overall, it beats way too many Pokemon and the fact that pretty much every single one of its checks / counters is neutralized in some form by Knock Off makes it all the more absurd.

Atomicllamas:
Sableye: Ban

Sableye may seem like an odd choice to suspect for quick-banning given its BST, but Sableye's combination of an amazing defensive typing, the perfect ability, and a move pool that gives Sableye exactly what it needs to effectively shut down all opposing defensive Pokemon (barring Aromatisse), while still being extremely obnoxious to take down for offensive teams. Sableye is also extremely hard to switch into for a defensive mon, due to knock off hitting decently hard thanks to STAB, while still removing the item from things that normally wouldn't mind taking Sableye's attacks, making them easier for Sableye and his teammates to take advantage of long term. These factors make Sableye clearly broken as a supportive mon in the current RU beta metagame.

Silentverse:

Sableye: Ban

Literally the most broken thing in the metagame right now. Sableye outstalls almost every Pokemon one-on-one with the combination of Will-O-Wisp, Taunt, Knock Off, and Recover. Only a very small selection of Pokemon are capable of beating this thing, and none of them like losing their item from Knock Off, as it makes them even more vulnerable to being worn down from Will-O-Wisp and hazards (coincidentally, Sableye spinblocks and easily beats what's probably the best spinner in the tier, Hitmonlee, without a sweat). No team is safe from this thing; stall, offense, and balance alike each get destroyed, and for that reason, Sableye needs to be removed ASAP.


Kyurem: Is Banned, 8-0 in favor of ban

DTC:

Kyurem: BAN

Not only does Kyurem hit ridiculously hard with its powerful STAB moves, but it is very capable defensively as well. 125 / 90 / 90 bulk allows it to survive most offensive attacks, even ones that hit it super effectively. Ice / Dragon does give Kyurem a lot of weaknesses but it also gives it very helpful resistances in Electric, Grass, and Water, and a neutrality to Ice. Choice Specs Kyurem is able to decimate most Pokemon while Sub + Roost is a monster that both hits pretty hard and is tough to take out, especially when combined with Toxic Spikes. Overall, Kyurem lacks reliable switchins and is just way too good of a Pokemon in general.

Tsunami:

Kyurem: BAN

Well, obviously Kyurem hits ridiculously hard with Draco Meteor and Ice Beam. There are answers to Kyurem such as Registeel and Bronzong, but neither of these Pokemon usually run recovery, and without Pokemon such as these, Kyurem is almost impossible to defeat without being a major thorn in one's side. It has many options for sets as well, such as SubRoost, Roost + 3 Attack, Choice Specs, and Choice Scarf, each with specific roles in the metagame. Choice Specs Earth Power can 2HKO Registeel, softening it up for later if one hits it on a predicted switch. Even though Kyurem is weak to Stealth Rock, its typing is otherwise excellent, giving it a wide array of resistances it can use to come in easily on even threatening attackers such as Raikou. Its bulk is also solid for a sweeper, letting it tank even super effective hits. 95 Base Speed is solid as well. Overall, Kyurem's combination of power, bulk, and typing make it too great of a threat in the metagame.

Hotncold:
Kyurem: Ban

Flawless, their BST speaks about itself. Great bulk with 125/90/90 overall, solid typing that allows to check big threats such Shaymin, Raikou and Abomasnow even being weak to Stealth Rock, relatively fast, really strong with different special options: Choice Scarf is one of the best revenger killers in the tier and after you kills steel/the uncommon fairy mons this thing can clean easily, Specs is a great wallbreaker which can hko-2hko pretty much every mon in the tier, all-out attacker version hits strong without being locked into a choice can lure some of their best checks like Escavalier with Hidden Power Fire and finally SubRoost set is able to stall defensive threats with Pressure and some of their best counters like Bronzong. Also, Kyurem is more dangerous if possible under Hail which takes advantage of the extra damage and able to use Blizzard, Kyurem is just insane on this tier.

Molk:
Kyurem: ban

With an astounding (not to mention well distributed) base stat total of 660, it was pretty obvious to anyone Kyurem was going to be trouble once it entered the tier. Kyurem's raw power is simply astounding, having dual base 130 attacking stats and all the coverage it needs between Dragon/Ice/Ground/hidden power, and very few pokemon can afford to stand up to it, and the ones that can have a tendency to either lack reliable recovery, or be vulnerable to things such as Toxic Spikes that often find themselves paired along with Kyurem (trust me, Toxic Spikes+Subroost Kyurem is extremely good). Kyurem isn't just powerful though, its also absurdly bulky, with great 125/90/90 defenses, Pressure, and access to reliable recovery in Roost, making it a very real defensive threat too, and can run all kinbds of good sets, including but not limited to Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, 3 attacks+roost, Mixed, and Subroost (the latter of which has the uncanny ability to pp stall stuff it should be losing too, such as: bronzong :|), making it somewhat unpredictable too. Overall, kyurem's combination of raw stats, recovery, pressure ability, and the limits it puts on teambuilding make it a bit too much for RU, and imo it should be banned.

Nails:

Kyurem: Ban, It can output a ton of damage from a fully defensive subroost set, or switch into resisted attacks 4-5 times with a fully offensive set (resisting water grass electric is more than enough to abuse for ample switch-ins). Basically, its base stats are far too high. Idk what else to say, its coverage is good enough but not amazing, its stabs synergize poorly but are extremely good individually, it's probably the least broken you could make a base 660 dragon... it's still a base 660 dragon though, and it just annihilates everything else with stats.

Spirit:

Kyurem: Ban

Having the liberty to run 6+ sets (Offensive SubRoost, Defensive SubRoost, Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Mixed, Roost + 3 Attacks being the most prominent) with immense variation alongside each makes Kyurem absolutely ridiculous. Each set functions superbly and has a different array of checks and counters, which makes dealing with Kyurem far too arduous. If that wasn't enough, take a quick look at its base stats. Not only does it have incredible power, but exceptional bulk (allowing it to survive a SE Iron Head from freaking Escavalier of all things) and enough speed to accomplish what it needs to. Kyurem demands at least two strong checks for each team, and even if you do carry these Pokemon, it does not guarantee that your team will be unharmed simply because it has ways of bypassing every single countermeasure while still functioning superbly. It's one thing for a certain threat to motivate one to carry checks/counters for it; however, when your multiple answers to a certain threat can still lose (and rather easily, might I add), then that really is unacceptable. Simply put, Kyurem is a centralizing force that does everything far too well for its own good.

Atomicllamas:
Kyurem: Ban

This was the Pokemon that I was sure I was going to vote No Ban on, because although it is extremely powerful, I also felt it was extremely overhyped. And I honestly do think that the purely offensive sets are pretty overated, having a myriad of viable checks and counters, as well as being relatively easy to wear down. However, after using the Sub Roost set, I can say that Kyurem's combination of bulk, as well as offensive presence make the sub roost set ridiculous, especially since it can just sit in front of many would be counter and pressure stall them out. This becomes especially effective with a little bit of hazard support, as Kyurem is really good at forcing switches, and once behind a Substitute it is often "gg" because of its excellent (although redundant) STABs and the coverage provided by Earth Power. It also enjoys the fact that none of its common switch ins have a reliable recovery move, so Kyurem has a really easy time outlasting its few checks / counters if it has some hazard support, thanks to roost. Basically, its high bulk, high power, and reliable recovery make it to much for the RU tier as it stands right now.

Silentverse:
Kyurem: Ban

Somehow, even though it is a 660 BST Dragon, I feel this is the suspect that is probably the least broken out of all of these, but its still broken for sure. Kyurem's crushing strength and immense bulk make it extremely difficult to handle effectively, and Specs Draco Meteor's off Kyurem's Special Attack is something that basically nothing likes to take. It's also capable of stalling out a significant amount of things with its SubRoost set, taking advantage of its huge bulk and resistances to stay safe behind a Substitute and simply whittle things down until they faint. While it does have a nice amount of checks in Registeel, Bronzong, Cobalion, Escavalier, and Specially defensive bulky waters like Milotic, Assault Vest Slowking, and Jellicent, a well-played Kyurem can easily beat many of these checks, either through simply stalling them out with SubRoost (you can PP Stall Bronzong out of Gyro Ball, for example) or just hitting them with the appropriate move to wear them down. For these reasons, Kyurem is cancerous to RU and deserves to be quickbanned


Azelf: is banned, 6-1-1 in favor of ban

DTC:

Azelf: BAN

Unlike Sableye, it's hard to pinpoint that one really broken set on Azelf because it's such a versatile Pokemon. A Nasty Plot set OHKOs almost the entire tier once set up, and while it's frail, Azelf forces a lot of switches. Unlike many other setup sweepers, Azelf is more than capable of being effective before a boost, thanks to its 125 base Special Attack, amazing coverage, and 115 base Speed. Azelf has such an expansive movepool consisting of coverage moves such as Fire Blast / Shadow Ball / Thunderbolt / Knock Off / Grass Knot, as well as an excellent 125 base Attack stat, that makes it hard to counterplay because it's hard to tell what moves it is running. A simple set of Nasty Plot / Psychic / Fire Blast / Shadow Ball is almost impossible to counter as is, but when you add a bunch of other moves to the table, and the fact that it outspeeds almost the entire unboosted tier, Azelf becomes that much more ridiculous.

Tsunami:
Azelf: BAN

Azelf can run a wide variety of sets ranging from Mixed to a Stealth Rock suicide lead. The suicide lead set can use Explosion to severely cripple the opposition, and getting up Stealth Rock with it is rather easy due to the great deal of switches Azelf usually forces. This aforementioned ability to force switches also makes it incredibly easy to set up a Nasty Plot. A +2 Azelf can OHKO most of the tier thanks to its superb coverage moves. 115 Base Speed ensures that Azelf won't be outrun by too many non-Scarfed threats, making it even more deadly. The aforementioned Mix set can also cause major problems for teams, and cripple them for the remainder of the game with Knock Off. Azelf's Psychic-typing also makes it resistant to Fighting-type moves, which are some of the most common priority attacks in the metagame, making it even more difficult to take out. It also has access to a Dual Screens set, which, while rarely seen, can be a force to be reckoned with on a SmashPass team. Azelf's versatility, raw power, great Speed, and ridiculous coverage make it too large of a threat to be dealt with properly in the RU metagame.

Hotncold:

Azelf: Ban

Well, I had a lot of doubts with Azelf at first thoughts because is just frail and weak to dark/ghost bluff but still is a extremely versatile pokemon with a lot of options: Nasty Plot, Choice Band, Suicide lead, Screens supporter, Mixed atacker or Utility with Stealth Rock + 3 atk; is just too unpredictable with the right moveset beats almost every threat in this tier - best way to handle this is with another offensive presence in the same level power something this tier lacks, Azelf with that speed base outrun every relevant threat in the tier except Sceptile and Dugtrio, not mention here Scarf mons which obviously have drawbacks using their choice item. Azelf is kinda the typical pokemon which dont need even a decent bulk, just with their offense presence is usually enough.

Molk:
Azelf: ban

Too much power, too much speed, too many options. Azelf comes packed with absolutely amazing dual base 125 mixed offenses as well as a movepool with not just good tools such as U-turn, Stealth Rock, Dual Screens, Explosion and Knock Off, but any coverage move it'll ever need, getting moves such as Energy Ball, Shadow Ball, Psyshock, Thunderbolt, Fire Blast, and more to run through the opposition, and even a great boosting move in Nasty Plot that lets it run right through defensive teams with ease and OHKO almost the entire tier after a boost, combine this with an amazing Speed stat of 115 that outruns pretty much the whole unboosted tier outside of say Sceptile, and you have quite a monster on your hands. In the end, i think this combination of power, speed, support options, and versatility is simply too much for the current RU tier to handle, and therefore Azelf should be banned.

Nails:

Azelf: No Ban, I expect it to be broken and I wouldn't be shocked if it's quickbanned but unlike the other two I don't think its power level is high enough to warrant a quickban. It's pretty easy to revenge kill, it has no bulk or recovery and I feel it's dealt with on paper at least by most tanky mons. I think mixed sets are pretty terrible, I don't think explosion is very strong since dpp, and Nasty Plot is pretty simple to revenge kill. I'm like 75/25 ban/no ban on Azelf but I think quickbans should be more certain than that. I might edit this to ban later though if I'm allowed to since it's rly close. But I could see a scenario post Sableye/Kyurem where it's not broked, which is enough atm.

Spirit:
Azelf: Abstain

This was the one I had the most difficulty deciding upon. On one hand, its stats and movepool make it an offensive behemoth; on the other hand, its general frailty, poor defensive synergy, and thus its lack of switch-in opportunities makes it difficult to utilize these traits to the fullest. The two sets that I think are worth discussing is the mixed set and the Nasty Plot set. I don't find the support sets to be all that game-breaking, setting up Stealth Rock and then Exploding or setting up dual screens and doing the latter isn't always going to be the precursor towards deciding a match. In terms of its influence on offensive teams (where all-out attacker sets are generally more effective), again, the frailty allows it to be taken out by moderately strong priority (Sucker Punch being the most common in this tier) whereas there are Pokemon--even on offense--that are capable of taking a hit and doing some serious damage back, such as Raikou and Druddigon. The Nasty Plot set finds most of its use against stall / slower teams, where admittedly, it's very destructive. There aren't that many full stall teams on the ladder though, most are semi-stall that have something that can revenge Azelf / force it out and thus keep it from sweeping their team. I just haven't faced very many stall teams on the ladder and even then, I didn't get much of a chance to really see Azelf's impact on them. As for slow, bulky offensive teams, trying to set up is pretty difficult without something like Memento Dugtrio support, and here's the thing that really annoys me with Azelf: if it can't KO the current target it's up against, it'll likely find itself the one taken out instead. I'm not denying that this Pokemon is potentially broken because with Sableye leaving (thus losing one more check) it's a definite outcome, but at this point, I can't say that it's quick-ban worthy nor can I confidently say that it's just fine.

atomicllamas:
Azelf: Ban

Azelf is blessed with what is quite possibly the best offensive move pool in all of Pokemon (barring mew), and has base 125 offenses, and a base 115 speed to back this move pool up. Due to its offensive versatility, it is pretty much uncounterable in RU, and unless you have god-like prediction skills, you will be sacking at least one Pokemon to Azelf. Between Choice Band, Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Nasty Plot, Suicide Lead, and an Offensive Dual Screens set, Azelf is capable of luring in and disposing of whatever Pokemon a teammate needs removed or weakened, in order to sweep, or efficiently sweeping by itself. Most of the arguments for the retention of Azelf in RU (that I have seen), like to point to its "frailty" as a reason that Azelf is not to much for the tier, but all of these "checks" are unable to switch into Azelf, meaning Azelf has already killed a Pokemon on your team. I'd also like to point out that 75 / 70 / 70 bulk isn't even that bad, and can easily set up on defensive mons without a SE STAB move, its bulk is comparable to Toxicroak's and even Sableye's, which while it is nothing to write home about, isn't necessarily bad. All in all, Azelf's stats and move pool create an extremely versatile Pokemon, that pretty much always puts the Azelf user in an advantageous position due to the mind games it creates for the opponent (especially with U-turn vs Nasty Plot factored in).

Silentverse:
Azelf: Ban

This is a dumb. Imagine if Magic Guard-less Alakazam was RU, except if it had Nasty Plot, way better coverage moves, an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and the ability to go mixed with strong coverage in U-turn and Knock Off. Ok, that's not really like Alakazam at all, but you get the gist of what I am trying to say (I hope). Essentially, Azelf is an extremely fast and diverse threat whose different sets each has a very limited set of counters, and due to how strong it is, guessing wrong is just so punishing for the player who has the misfortune of having to deal with this thing. After a Nasty Plot, Azelf literally OHKOes virtually everything in the tier, and its Speed is fast enough to make revenge killing a chore, especially as right now, RU lacks a lot of good scarfers, and the few Pokemon that can take a hit after a Nasty Plot (Assault Vest Slowking, specially defensive Spiritomb and Skuntank I guess?) get worn down by CB / LO Knock Offs / U-turns very quickly, making them shaky initial switch-ins. Playing against Azelf is a guessing game that is almost always in the favor of the person using the Azelf, and for this reason, Azelf needs to be quickbanned.


TL;DR RIP
 

SilentVerse

Into the New World
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
May 6, 2014 - Tornadus quickbanned from RU.

I just wanted to come here and post to say that Tornadus has been officially quickbanned from the RU tier in a unanimous vote. The ban should be implemented on PS asap. This time the RU council decided to so something a little different for reasoning, once a descision was made, we used a ppad discussion to type out one, simple reasoning paragraph.

"Tornadus's combination of power, speed, versatility, and lack of reliable checks and counters makes it pretty obviously worthy of a quickban, especially now that one if its few good checks (Raikou) has moved up to the UU tier. While there are still some (emphasis on some, there are very few and a lot of them aren't exactly the most viable otherwise, fucking carbink lol) checks and counters remaining in the RU tier, they are all easily worn down, and most (all barring Eelektross and the mighty Rotom-Spin) are capable of being trapped and beaten by Dugtrio, a very common teammate for Tornadus. Not to mention quite a few of these checks are only able to beat a few of Tornadus's sets, and actual counters or even hard checks are few and far between. The physical set beats down many of the specially bulky pokemon that can threaten mixed sets, and vice versa. For example, Rhyperior beats the physical sets handily, but gets easily OHKO'd by a Grass Knot from a special or mixed set."


TL;DR Tornadus has very few checks to begin with, and the majority of the ones that do exist are either garbage otherwise, capable of being easily trapped and eliminated by dugtrio, or both.
 

atomicllamas

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Updating this cause SilentVerse is bad

June 19, 2014 - Froslass banned

why this was suspected said:
Froslass has mainly been suspected because while it is not a huge offensive or defensive threat, the amount of support Froslass is able to supply its teammates is so incredible that its support alone puts many of the threatening Pokemon in RU at the moment over the edge. This is because Froslass's combination of excellent Speed, Destiny Bond, Cursed Body and access to Spikes allows Froslass to quickly get at worst one layer of Spikes up against a majority of teams (and when well played, it will often get two or even three due to the mindgames that Froslass is able to create via Destiny Bond and Cursed Body), and due to its other characteristics, Froslass is also able to deter opponents from removing the Spikes that it sets up. Froslass's Ghost typing, for example, prevents Rapid Spin users from successfully removing Spikes until Froslass has been removed, and access to Ice Beam and Taunt lets Froslass effectively shut down most Defog users (for example, one of the most common defog users, Gligar, is 4x weak to Ice Beam), as many of them take significant damage from Ice Beam and Taunt guarantees that they will not be able to pull off a Defog when Froslass is in play. Because of these traits, Froslass can consistently get up multiple layers of Spikes, slow down or outright stop attempts at hazard removal, mostly on its own, and can even get a free kill once it's done setting up as many Spikes as possible, making it an incredibly good support pokemon with suspect level capabilities. Even though Froslass often dies early in the match (although smart players won't let it die right away if they don't need to sacrifice it), it will almost always do after doing its job - that is, setting up multiple layers of Spikes - and for this reason, we feel Froslass is suspect worthy.
On a different note Congratulations to New Breed the newest member of RU council!

He will be replacing DTC who must be on every lower tier council, best of luck to DTC in his NU endeavors!
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
July 10th, 2014 - Shuckle Banned

why this was suspected said:
Just like Froslass before it Shuckle isn't being suspected for either its offensive or defensive capabilities, instead Shuckle is being suspected for its ability to greatly support its team. Shuckle's bulk and ability to hold the item Mental Herb while being able to survive pretty much any hit regardless of being sashed let it consistently get up the hazards Stealth Rock and Sticky Web over the course of the game, perhaps even multiple times. Sticky Web is a very powerful hazard in the RU tier, especially considering that RU has not just a large amount of powerful, yet slow wallbreakers that can abuse this hazard being up, but less methods of hazard control compared to the upper tiers. On top of this, Shuckle has all the right tools it needs to do all of punish attempts at removing the hazards it has set, prevent itself from being set up bait, and grant its teammates free switch ins. Encore plays a big part in this, trying to Rapid Spin on Shuckle means you risk getting locked into the move, meanwhile the slow shuckle can just reset its hazards and switch to a spinblocker accordingly, such as Doublade. The reason that Shuckle itself is being suspected and not the move Sticky Web in general is because of how Shuckle is far and away the best user of the move, not only because of how reliable it is at setting it up compared to the other (mostly frail and/or bad otherwise) Pokemon with access to the move, but also being the only Pokemon other than Smeargle that can use both Stealth Rock and Sticky Web, saving teamslots for the user. Assuming a ban comes out of this suspect, if it is shown in the future that Sticky Web itself is or becomes the problem and not merely the quality of the vessel setting it up, then a test on the move itself will ensue and if that ban goes through, Shuckle will immediately be unbanned.

TL;DR

Why Shuckle?

It consistently gets up a hazards thats extremely dangerous in a metagame with limited defog/rapid spin users, has encore to stop opponents from setting up on it and to punish hazard removers for using their move by granting free switches.

Why Shuckle and not webs itself?[

Shuckle is far and away the best Sticky Web user in the tier at the moment, all the other Sticky Web users can't get both Stealth Rock and Sticky Web up nearly as consistently, and cant punish attempts of removing them nearly as well. In fact, the only one thats close to viable is leavanny. If Sticky Web itself is shown to be the problem and not simply whats setting it being too good at its job, then a suspect test on the move itself will begin and Shuckle may be immediately unbanned depending on the result.

Why Shuckle and not the Sticky Web abusers?

Would you rather have me ban half the tier simply for being too powerful with Shuckle's support or just test the problem at its core, leaving anything that has the potential to be broken under webs (see: every wallbreaker) alone??????
The council would also like to say farewell to long time RU council member Nails and thank him for his services to the tier!
 

atomicllamas

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August 19th, 2014-Yanmega and Zoroark Banned

why yanmega was suspected said:
Yanmega is being suspected because it is undoubtedly one of the strongest and most potent threats in RU at the moment. The problem with Yanmega is that it has two potential sets, both of which are extremely good and threaten multiple playstyles. The Speed Boost set allows Yanmega to turn into offense’s worst nightmare, out pacing just about every non Choice Scarf’d Pokemon at +1 and everything else at +2. This set also has the luxury of being able to run quite a few options in it’s last slot, Giga Drain can be used to let Yanmega breeze past Rhyperior, while also aiding in cancelling out LO recoil. This is usually inferior to Shadow Ball or Hidden Power Fire as both let you get passed Doublade, Escavalier and Magneton respectively. Yanmega does have another string to it’s bow however, with the Choice Specs set turning it from a late game cleaner into a powerful wallbreaker. XY RU is a tier with very few 4x Bug resists, with the best of them being Moltres. This allows Tinted Lens Bug Buzz to be extremely spam able, almost guaranteeing a kill everytime it comes in if the opponent lacks a Registeel or Moltres. Unfortunately most of the Pokemon in the tier that can switch into a Bug Buzz don’t appreciate taking an Air Slash (except for the mighty Bastiodon). To top it all of, XY RU also has one of the best Pokemon to help support Yanmega in removing it’s most reliable counter: Dugtrio. Dugtrio has the ability to trap and kill or severely weaken Registeel, essentially clearing the path for Yanmega against any sort of slow/defensive teams.
why zoroark was suspected said:
Zoroark is being suspected for both offensive and support based reasons. Due to Zoroark's incredible offensive stats and very nice Speed tier, which conveniently places Zoroark above a large amount of RU's most relevant threats, in addition to a wide movepool that contains not only powerful STAB attacks such as Knock Off and Sucker Punch, but also a wide array of coverage moves such as Extrasensory, Flamethrower, Low Kick, Grass Knot and Hidden Power, Zoroark is a powerful offensive threat in RU. These qualities are enhanced significantly as well by its ability, Illusion, which allows Zoroark to disguise itself as the last Pokemon in your party. In the hands of a competent player, Zoroark can use this disguise to lure out counters to the Pokemon it is disguised as and OHKO or severely cripple them, oftentimes paving the way for the Pokemon Zoroark disguised itself as to sweep. With the amount of dangerous threats in RU, the ability to lure out and remove the few counters to said dangerous threats makes Zoroark an extremely potent supporting Pokemon, which is a key part of why it is being suspected. However, Zoroark is not just limited to luring out and removing counters for other dangerous threats to sweep; Zoroark itself is perfectly capable of sweeping as well, due to its access to Swords Dance and, to a lesser extent, Nasty Plot. Once again by using Illusion, Zoroark has the ability to quickly gain a set-up opportunity, and due to the sheer power of its STAB attacks and the amount of coverage it can possess, Zoroark can be very difficult to stop once it has a boost. Overall, the combination of Zoroark's offensive capabilities in tandem with Illusion make a Pokemon that the RU community feels deserves to be suspected.

 

Molk

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New Breed sent me a message on skype saying he was gonna take a break from mons for a while :[
 

Molk

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is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
hey guys, because there was apparently some question about this i just thought i'd leave this here

As for a more general idea of the RU council, the council is meant to be a collection of some of the best players and contributors the tier has to offer. The RU council is meant to serve an advisory role, helping me and coleader Silentverse out with things regarding potential suspects, as well as with various issues/things going on in the tier (whether its the metagame discussion forum, RU C&C, the PS room, or the IRC channel). Keep in mind though that while their word is valued, it's not gospel.

The RU Council is also here to help all of you out, given they're meant to be some of the best players and contributors in the tier, they're some of the first people you should look to talk to if you ever need help on something involving the tier.


also updated the same paragraph into the OP :]
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
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Feb. 2nd 2015

Dragalge, Pidgeotite, and Serperior banned by suspect test from RU


Why Dragalge was suspected said:
With the release of Adaptability, Dragalge has become the tiers premier wallbreaker with its powerful STAB moves. On top of its power, Dragalge is also pretty bulky for an offensive Pokemon, and has extremely good defensive typing, giving it countless opportunities to easily switch in and fire off its ridiculously powerful STAB moves with impunity, often getting a free KO in the process. Because of its immense power, Dragalge has a *very* limited number of switch-ins, limited to the most Specially Bulky of Steel-type Pokemon in the tier, and all of them barring Bronzong fear switching into a common coverage move or simply don't have the bulk to take repeated hits over the course of the game, which makes Dragalge quite centralizing in the current metagame. To put just how hard Dragalge hits into perspective, Dragalge's Draco Meteor is *significantly* more powerful than Exploud's Boomburst on its initial use, and Sludge Bomb is almost as powerful.

252+ SpA Choice Specs Exploud Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 295-348 (73 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 382-450 (94.5 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 264-312 (65.3 - 77.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Why Pidgeotite was suspected said:
ORAS gave Pidgeot a new Mega Evolution, with 135 base Special Attack and access to a 100% accurate 110 BP Flying-type STAB move. Access to Heat Wave allows Mega Pidgeot to hit Steel-types on the switch in, and U-turn allows it to pivot out of other counters such as Eelektross and Rhyperior on the switch-in quite easily. Access to Roost and Work Up allow Pidgeot to take advantage of more passive counters such as Bronzong, SpD Golbat, and Registeel, (Refresh is also an option to take advantage of these Pokemon). Mega Pidgeot is very difficult for offensive teams to deal with as its high 121 base speed outspeeds almost all non scarf Pokemon in the tier (Jolteon and Mega Sceptile (post Mega Evolution) are the lone exceptions). This allows Mega Pidgeot to clean up with very little support against offensive teams.
Why Serperior was suspected said:
With the release of contrary, Serperior gained a 130 BP STAB boosted Nasty Plot making it an extremely potent threat in spite of its base 75 SpA. Its really great base speed of 113, combined with its decent coverage (Grass + Dragon + Fire hits everything at least neutrally) allow Serperior to become a potent set up sweeper. While there are some decent defensive responses to Serperior, and quite a few things that can revenge kill it (less than you'd think thanks to its solid bulk for an offensive Pokemon), Serperior's free fourth moveslot allows it to cripple some would be counters and checks. Substitute+Leech Seedallows Serp to avoid status moves from the likes of Registeel and Bronzong while wearing them down with repeated chip damage in the process, Knock Off can wear down the opponents counters easily letting Serp sweep late game (Golbat, Bronzong) and Glare can be used to punish would be revenge killers (Scarf Moltres). Serperior does have a pretty solid counter in SpD Golbat, as well as a myriad of checks, but the ease with which it can sweep makes Serperior a suspect worthy threat.
 

Molk

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Mar. 2nd, 2015

Pangoro and Moltres banned via suspect test

Pangoro's reasoning said:
Pangoro's great attack stat and incredible coverage with its STAB moves alone make it extremely hard (if not impossible) to safely switch into. Pangoro's Swords Dance set is pretty much impossible for slower, defensive teams to deal with, as it easily breaks through most common stall Pokemon at +2 with Knock Off, Drain Punch, or Gunk Shot, can set up quite easily, and can keep itself healthy throughout the match thanks to Drain Punch. Even Quagsire, who would otherwise easily stop Swords Dance Pangoro, is incapable of beating it thanks to Mold Breaker. On top of this, Swords Dance Pangoro is not even dead weight against other playstyles, as a STAB Knock Off, coming off of its high attack stat often forces the opponent to sacrifice one or more Pokemon. Pangoro is also capable of pulling off an extremely threatening Choice Band set thanks to its astounding attack stat, great STAB moves (in particular, Knock Off is *extremely* spammable), and perfect coverage. While having no defensive counters isn't necessarily grounds for banning a Pokemon, it is certainly grounds for suspecting it, especially when it can just run right through a playstyle so consistently.
Moltres's reasoning said:
Moltres's fantastic Special Attack stat and high base power STAB moves in Fire Blast and Hurricane make it quite difficult to switch into. On top this, Moltres has a solid Speed tier that lets it get the jump on a large amount of the relevant metagame. Access to Roost punishes defensive switching and lets it recover off damage taken from weaker attacks, Stealth Rock, and Life Orb recoil, and Moltres can easily fit Hidden Power Grass onto its sets to deal with many of its offensive checks such as Kabutops and Rhyperior. Because of this, Moltres often forces teams to fodder a Pokemon or win prediction battles unless they choose to run a dedicated Moltres switch in ; Cresselia, Slowking, Regirock, and Lanturn are the main options here and all of them have their own issues, Regirock and Lanturn suffer from a lack of recovery, making them easy to wear down, while Slowking and Cresselia are vulnerable to Pursuit.

Choice Scarf Moltres has little trouble ripping through offensive teams between its blazing speed, great special attack, access to U-turn, and high base power STAB moves

All in all, Moltres is incredibly good at what it does despite the hazard control it needs, and puts quite a large strain on teambuilding that makes it a potential suspect in the RU council's eyes.

On the downside, it's at least slightly easier to keep hazards on the opponent's side of the field now that Gligar's moved up to UU by usage, and Stealth Rock is as much of a thorn in Moltres's side as usual. Although whether or not this is enough to keep Moltres from being banworthy remains to be seen.
Also, user: Spirit has officially rejoined the RU council, congrats to him!

 

Molk

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is a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
March 8th, 2015

Feraligatr quickbanned from RU, reasoning below

Gaining Sheer Force gave Feraligatr three crucial boons that resulted in its ban: the ability to hit tremendously hard straight off the bat, have the capability to run Dragon Dance and even Specially Based-attacker sets to limit its pool of checks, and accentuate the power of its already fearsome Swords Dance sets. Between its above average bulk and pure Water typing, Feraligatr found many opportunities to set up all the while being incredibly difficult to revenge kill once it got going. This significant increase in power made Feraligatr very difficult to check and nearly impossible to counter outside of a select few defensive Pokemon, especially when it employs the use of Substitute, and outside of Choice Scarf Rotom-C, very few if any Choice Scarf users have the capability to revenge kill it. In the end, the addition of Sheer Force made Feraligatr, an already good RU Pokemon, too powerful and versatile for the RU metagame to handle.
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
The Council would like to thank user: Afro Smash for his time on the council. He hasn't quite kept up with the activity necessary to be a council member recently, but nevertheless we are grateful for the time and effort he put into helping shape the tier.

On a totally unrelated note, we'd like to welcome user: 49 to the council. Congrats!
 

atomicllamas

but then what's left of me?
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
May 8th, 2015
Kingdra quickbanned from RU, reasoning below

Kingdra is an extremely versatile Pokemon that depending on the set renders Stall, Balance, and Offense unviable. The Critdra set has a total of 0 viable defensive responses in the tier (unless you count AV Shell Armor Lapras as viable, which I do not), while maintaining its prowess against offense thanks to Agility. Against more offensive teams, Rain Dance Kingdra has very limited checks, and if given one free turn to set up Rain Dance, it is often "good game", this can be made even more threatening by using another Pokemon to provide Rain for it. On top of the ease with which RD Kingdra batters offensive teams, it is also extremely difficult to deal with for defensive teams do to the sheer power of LO Hydro Pump in the rain, and the fact that there are pretty muchno viable Pokemon allowed in RU that resist both Water and Dragon. And this doesn't even mention the Dragon Dance set(s) which can easily dismantle balance, and hit the opponent from the physical side unexpectedly beati. While all of these sets need a turn of set up in order to sweep, this is actually very easy for Kingdra to obtain given its good defenses for an offensive Pokemon, and excellent defensive typing with only two weaknesses, while holding some key resists such as a 4x resistance to Water and Fire. Overall, Kingdra's lack of checks and counters, and the ease with which it can set up and sweep mean that Kingdra is far to much for the RU tier and thus has been unanimously quick banned by the RU council.
 
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