Yeah, I guess you could call both Aero and Ambipom "momentum leads." Their purpose is to accumulate offensive momentum, but so often they are misused and they just end up dead for no reason.
This. I don't think I've used Milotic very much since Roserade and Honchkrow were in UU together. I know it's probably the best pokemon in UU, but I just never find myself needing to use it. I also agree with the rest of your post (the 'meh'-ness of CBAzu and Ambipom).funny how i havent run defensive milotic on a team in over half a year :(
Venusaur and Vileplume are similar Pokemon. They possess the same typing and similar stats and movepools. Venusaur outclasses Vileplume in terms of stats, and its movepool is far superior save for lack of Aromatherapy. There is therefore a direct correlation between their usages. Venusaur will practically be used more often than Vileplume. This is the type of correlation I am referring to. This either does or does not apply to the comparison of Venusaur and Moltres. If they are similar enough to be compared, Moltres is inferior according to usage stats; if they are dissimilar, then usage stats do not have a correlation. You are arguing that they are similar, so we have to accept the first point.Why can't I ignore an irrelevant point?
Stats do not correlate to anything besides "look people use this Pokemon more". That means absolutely nothing at all in this comparison of "being good". Stats are meaningless unless you're trying to find out what people are using. That's what they're for. Nothing more. Nothing less.
You have no proof that the stats are invalid. Yes, the ladder is inundated with "bad players"; yes, the stats would probably be more indicative of the competitive metagame if they were weighted. But do you really think that Moltres would outrank Venusaur in usage if stats were weighted?Yea, but again, they don't relate to this specific comparison, nor would it be accurate to suggest that 12122109 nobodies know which Pokemon are the best (or 12122109 people at all). Stats, once again, are for knowing what people are using. Nothing more. Nothing less.
The overriding similarities - "bulky, hard to switch into, and special sweepers" - are invalid. They are subjective and barely descriptive. "Bulky" fails to touch on Moltres's Stealth Rock weakness and what it can switch into. "Hard to switch into" does not address what can and cannot switch into either. " "Special sweepers" does not address how they play and how they sweep (also part of the "hard to switch into" part).The reason I made the comparisons, for the 1203912th time: People were complaining that Venusaur is bulky and is really hard to switch into. Moltres is also bulky and is hard to switch into (and if you want me to be honest, I'd rather switch into Venusaur then Moltres on my offensive teams). I am factually pointing out similarities between the two Pokemon. They are factuallysimilar in those ways. I know they have many many many differences, but you only need couple overriding similarities (they are both special sweepers that are bulky and hard to switch into) to compare two Pokemon.
I'm basing it off of the definition of a good player: if a person doesn't take steps to cover a prominent threat, he's probably not a good player. I'm not sure what the second point is meant to imply - plus, it has been possible in each phase of UU to make teams that sufficiently addressed each of the suspects, anyway.Firstly, what are you basing this off of? And nonetheless, people can continuously fail at making their teams work well against specific threats (like me and RD kabutops last round).
There are plenty of reasons why that's wrong, but first and foremost: Stealth Rock. It's like saying "Ambipom is just like Aero minus the one thing that makes it good." Even with the offensive momentum of Fake Out and Uturn, it simply cannot compare to getting SR up early with absolutely no risks, functioning as a potent anti-lead without even doing anything, and without sacrificing any damage potential.and the last sentence basically cements that Ambipom is the UU Aero. what versatility are you going to see with Ambi other than a stupid nasty pass version? completely agreeing with ana on this one.
Has anyone else used a Specs Omastar lead?? With 540 Special Attack (Factoring in HP Grass), he destroys everything that doesn't resist it apart from Chansey. The number of Ambipom Taunting me and getting OHKO'd is just hilarious. It 2HKOs your standard Uxie lead as well, which is pretty awesome too. Hydro Pump (Or Surf)/Ice Beam/HP Grass/Spikes is the set I'm using. It's so fun just blasting shit with it.
If you're looking for the hottest new gimmick, you should try Specs Blastoise instead. In addition to having a better typing, speed, and not being weak to most of the tier, its damage output with Water Spout is just outrageous. Matter of fact:Surf does 52.54% - 62.15%, so it doesn't always 2HKO with Leftovers, but will most of the time. This is assuming 252/0 Uxie.
You are making it seem that Pokemon are black and white. You're suggesting that they are either almost exactly the same, or not even remotely close to being similar at all. In any event, I'll address your point.Venusaur and Vileplume are similar Pokemon. They possess the same typing and similar stats and movepools. Venusaur outclasses Vileplume in terms of stats, and its movepool is far superior save for lack of Aromatherapy. There is therefore a direct correlation between their usages. Venusaur will practically be used more often than Vileplume. This is the type of correlation I am referring to. This either does or does not apply to the comparison of Venusaur and Moltres. If they are similar enough to be compared, Moltres is inferior according to usage stats; if they are dissimilar, then usage stats do not have a correlation. You are arguing that they are similar, so we have to accept the first point.
You're missing the point completely. I am not trying to emphasize the quality of player (though it is low...) on the ladder. I am trying to point out what stats are. They are not a power-meter. Server statistics are a list of sets that people use. The only (read: only) thing you can logically deduce from this is which sets are most common. There are so so many variables to consider when looking at a Pokemon's stats that it's impossible to prove that people use solely the best Pokemon...namely because it's not true. People use whatever Pokemon fits in their team for their strategy, and not all good Pokemon have synergy with one another (for example, Pokemon like Spiritomb and Mismagius don't go too well together).Eo Ut Mortus said:You have no proof that the stats are invalid. Yes, the ladder is inundated with "bad players"; yes, the stats would probably be more indicative of the competitive metagame if they were weighted. But do you really think that Moltres would outrank Venusaur in usage if stats were weighted?
They are completely valid and describe the similarities of the Pokemon in question. I may not have 100% defined those terms, but that's because they have mostly well-known and understood definitions. You know that "bulky" means "can switch in, take a hit, and not be killed". Hard to switch into is pretty straightforward. It means that they, either through Sleep Powder or insanely good coverage and power are both very hard to find a switch-in for. And Special Sweepers is quite obviously a Pokemon who tries to beat the opponent with powerful special attacks.Eo Ut Mortus said:Anyway, the crux of the argument is being derailed here. You may choose to ignore the stats, but you still cannot justify your comparison with:
The overriding similarities - "bulky, hard to switch into, and special sweepers" - are invalid. They are subjective and barely descriptive. "Bulky" fails to touch on Moltres's Stealth Rock weakness and what it can switch into. "Hard to switch into" does not address what can and cannot switch into either. " "Special sweepers" does not address how they play and how they sweep (also part of the "hard to switch into" part).
Uxie hardly runs Grass Knot on its set (It's relegated to "Other" on the stats), while it it doesn't OHKO anyway, due to how piss-weak Uxie is. Mesprit carries GK a lot more often, but why the hell would you keep Omastar in against Mesprit anyway?? Stop being so pessimistic, mate.Eh I hated using Omastar leads after every Mesprit and Uxie and their mother surprised my ass with a Grass Knot. Too high risk for such a paltry reward.
He has Sleep Powder listed so basically you just prefer Psychic over Sunny Day. Unless you meant Synthesis. I ran Exeggutor for a while but dropped him because he just can't perform the bulky switch in role as well as Venusaur does. He's a lot harder to switch into than Venusaur, but still gets cockblocked by Registeel.I prefer pscyhic and sleep powder over sunny day and HP fire on execute but it is indeed an interesting pokemon. On another note I have been using LO Medicham and the think is a monster. With great coverage and incredible attack I am hoping to see this guy and tauros break the UU tier. I figure it would take medicham off of NU hands as I can only imagine how effective he is down there.
It still sucked to get surprised by Grass Knot from Uxie and by 5-6. I felt like I was seeing it every game but maybe that's just because I used Omastar back when Froslass had just left the tier and everybody was looking for a hazard abuser replacement and Uxie had to temporarily adjust. And I'm not being pessimistic, I'm just saying the benefits of getting hazards from Omastar doesn't outweigh his cons for me.Uxie hardly runs Grass Knot on its set (It's relegated to "Other" on the stats), while it it doesn't OHKO anyway, due to how piss-weak Uxie is. Mesprit carries GK a lot more often, but why the hell would you keep Omastar in against Mesprit anyway?? Stop being so pessimistic, mate.
Actually, under Sun and with that spread standard Registeel takes 49.5% - 58.8% Damage from HP Fire, basically a guaranteed 2HKO with entry hazards, and even without in some cases. Hardly a cockblock.He has Sleep Powder listed so basically you just prefer Psychic over Sunny Day. Unless you meant Synthesis. I ran Exeggutor for a while but dropped him because he just can't perform the bulky switch in role as well as Venusaur does. He's a lot harder to switch into than Venusaur, but still gets cockblocked by Registeel.
It is a 2HKO on Regi in the sun. Venu and Milo are both also OHKO'd by SolarBeam and HP fire respectively.Actually, under Sun and with that spread standard Registeel takes 49.5% - 58.8% Damage from HP Fire, basically a guaranteed 2HKO with entry hazards, and even without in some cases. Hardly a cockblock.
The only problem with choosing those two moves is that they make Exeggutor completely useless against Fire types. Personally, If I was going for a stand alone Sunny Day sweeper to blast holes in a team, it would be Tangrowth. It has better defensive stats, more balanced Attacking stats, a better movepool (both Attack and Special Attack), and, quite possibly the best reason to use it, it gets Earthquake.It is a 2HKO on Regi in the sun. Venu and Milo are both also OHKO'd by SolarBeam and HP fire respectively.
While you are correct in asserting that you did not directly incorporate the stated bias into your Venusaur nomination, the bias is present, indirectly injected by the discrepancy that I have addressed. At this point I would like to point out that there are two forms of bias. The first is bias that arises from experience, where you find a Pokemon to be BL or UU because you have simply experienced it in a certain way, as being either “easy” or “difficult” to take on. This phenomenon is natural and cannot be accounted for, as others have pointed out. The second form of bias is bias that arises from the systemic nature in which you handle the threat under discussion--i.e. your stylistic response to it. This type of bias is very obvious and should be eliminated. The differences between the two forms of bias are subtle, but I would categorize the discrepancy I am discussing here as belonging to the latter classification. Moreover, by trying to justify said discrepancy with your playstyle, you have acknowledged that you are aware of the bias. Your awareness is in fact one of the issues that concern me--to possess systemic bias is one matter; to be aware of it without attempting to eliminate it is another.. . . the same arguments have been made in regards as to why Venusaur is not broken, why Crobat was broken, and so forth. You may choose to ignore it if you do think it's an invalid argument; it's not like I incorporated that into my Venusaur nomination. The actual discrepancy between my votes is a personal issue that is, I would wager, all but irrelevant to Venusaur's tiering, assuming that I am indeed "correct" on both counts.
If you're running in the sun, you're not gonna have Sleep Powder. Unless you're running the coverage of Grass/Fire. Then that's just a joke.Actually, under Sun and with that spread standard Registeel takes 49.5% - 58.8% Damage from HP Fire, basically a guaranteed 2HKO with entry hazards, and even without in some cases. Hardly a cockblock.
hmm...interesting predictions.There's no way Swellow is leaving UU. He's still a potent threat and an excellent late game sweeper.
Some predictions:
(not including some clear cut changes like Slowking and Regirock going into NU)
-Absol goes into NU.
-Poliwrath goes into NU
-Manectric goes into UU
-Kanghaskan goes into UU