Balanced type chart

[Rotosect]

Approved by Joim

Ever wondered what the metagame would look like if all types were equal?
Are you tired of not being able to use ice or poison types to full potential while steel and water types wall you all day?
Do you think that powerful sweepers getting near-perfect coverage in just two moves is unfair?

Then Balanced Type Chart (BTC for short) is the metagame for you!

The idea behind this metagame is very simple: take the hilariously unbalanced type chart and make the following changes:

• all types have exactly one weakness
• all types have exactly one resistance
• all types have exactly one immunity
• all types hit exactly one type for super-effective damage
• all types hit exactly one type for not very effective damage
• all types are completely nullified by exactly one type

This means that, on paper, there will be no "best" or "worst" offensive or defensive type, so a pokemon's usefulness will largely depend on its stats, movepool and abilities.

Of course, such changes need to be arbitrary and many new immunities will need to be introduced, however they'll be as faithful to the original type chart as possible.
This means that grass isn't suddenly going to become strong against water, but water being immune to fire is a logical change. Likewise Electric and Ground will keep their relationship because it's the most logical choice.
As for the new immunities, all of them except one are former resistances (like water becoming immune to fire).

Here's the chart:

Hide

A few interactions may require some explaination, so here they are:

Normal is super-effective against itself
Normal is a type meant to be "neutral" against most of the metagame and virtually everything has access to Normal-type moves, so in order to minimize its negative effects (Inverse Battles have proven that a Normal-type weakness is really nasty) I decided to make it SE against itself: Normal types gain a powerful STAB, but at the cost of a significant weakness. This also encourages the use of Return and Explosion against Chansey and Blissey, who otherwise would be problematic.

Normal is resistant to Fairy
Normal needed a new resistance, so I picked the newcomer Fairy type because I thought it would feel wrong giving a it a resistance to an older type such as water or ice. Consider it a bonus for the normal types who didn't get retconned into fairies.

Grass is immune to Rock
Rock is a problematic type because it is, numerically speaking, the strongest offensive type in the game. If there was a pokemon of all 18 types at once, rock would be its lone weakness - in other words there are more rock weaknesses (4) than resistances (3) in the original type chart. This means that in order to keep the balanced chart as faithful to the normal chart as possible, a new bad matchup (NVE or immunity) had to be made. I picked Grass because it already has a type advantage against rock, except now it's also a defensive one instead of just offensive.

Ice is resistant to Dragon
Dragon is the only type SE against itself in the standard type chart and Ice's only natural resistance has been turned into an immunity, so I wanted to keep Ice's previous status as "dragon slayers" by giving it a type advantage against dragon. Another reason is to force Dragon types to carry Steel-type moves if they want to get past Ice types, because 130+ attacking stats coupled with 120/130 BP moves are still extremely powerful.



Note that status effects/moves immunities still apply: for example fire types are still immune to burn and grass types are still immune to powder moves.

Also note that for balance purposes, Flying, the one type weak to Rock (and by extension Stealth Rock), is immune to Ground and therefore immune to the grounded hazards.

All the standard OU clauses (Moody, sleep etc.) still apply.


Banlist

Hide

Pokemon
Arceus
Blaziken
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys-A
Dialga
Giratina
Giratina-O
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Kyurem-B
Kyurem-W
Lugia
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Reshiram
Shaymin-S
Xerneas
Yveltal
Zekrom

Abilities
Moody

Items
Gengarite
Kangaskhanite

The initial banlist is the same as the current OU one with the inclusion of Kyurem-B.


Feel free to discuss about potential threats and sets!

 

[SpartanMalice]

This looks really fun, and I might actually be able to code this. I'll let you know if I do.

Edit: I made this, but I just noticed you don't have the approval. Regardless I'm ready to submit a pull request to anyone who accepts it, but you may wanna take a look into getting approval from a mod..

 

[Rotosect]

It was approved by Joim, I forgot to add that in the OP. Just fixed it.

Here are a couple of notable sets:

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power Dragon/Ice
- Will-o-Wisp


Thanks to Levitate Rotom-W is one of the very few pokemon with no weaknesses (other than Freeze Dry) in this metagame, however its STABs are now walled by Dargon/Ground types such as Garchomp.
Because of this it's imperative avoiding to become set-up bait for those threats, so the standard physically defensive set should run HP Ice or Dragon to deal with Substitute/Lum Berry variants.

Shedinja @ Focus Sash/Lum Berry
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Spa)
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Return
- X-Scissors

Shedinja is a lot more viable in this metagame. With only two weaknesses (and therefore 16 immunities thanks to Wonder Guard), much better coverage, the improved Gen 6 Defog getting rid of hazards and perma-weather not lasting forever, it might just be able to hold its own on the battlefield. Just watch out for Tyranitar.

 

[SpartanMalice]

I submitted a Pull Request to Joim's github, so if he notices and accepts it, it may be up on the lab soon. ;)

 

[Loudo]

The idea is really interesting, kudos. I do have, however, a few criticisms.

I think that the idea of giving each type 1 weakness, 1 resistance, and 1 immunity makes this metagame too defense friendly. Besides the fact that each type has two defensive advantages but only one defensive disadvantage, the fact that each type has an immunity also means that it's extremely easy to find dual-type Pokémons with 1 weakness, 2 resistances, and 2 immunities.

On the other end of the spectrum, there isn't much variety in what constitutes "good coverage." In fact, the new type chart is anything but balanced if you look at it from an offensive point of view.
Some types are good offensively because the Pokémon of that type tend to have access to the right coverage. Most Fighting-types learn some Dark-type moves, most Ground-types learn Rock-type moves. (And yet, despite being good offensive types, because of the defense friendly nature of the type chart, there are still going to be Pokémon immune to both types.)
On the other hand, how many Fire-types learn Electric-type moves? How many Bug-types learn Water-type moves?

I think that this metagame would be much more interesting if each type had 2 weaknesses.

 

[Rotosect]

I considered adding a second weakness to each type, but things started getting complicated with Normal and Dragon.
Since Return is for all intents and purposes an Earthquake with universal distribution in this metagame, I think it would be unfair to make any type weak to Normal, besides Normal itself who gets STAB on it.
Quick Attack is also the most common priority in the game, which further penalizes anything weak to Normal.

As for Dragon, considering they have insane offensive stats and BP on their moves, any type weak to it would be almost unviable. Just like Normal being weak to itself balances it out somewhat.

As for the offense vs defense debate, on one hand it's true that each type is better defensively than offensively now and movepools largely dictate how a pokemon performs as a whole, but on the other hand certain pokemon that used to be held back by their type can now take advantage of the tools they have.
For example, I specifically avoided any interactions between fire and grass because I wanted grass types to be able to emply Sunny Day/Drought without being in costant fear of having fire types ruining their day.
Set-up moves like Swords Dance and Shell Smash are also easier to pull off now, so offensive pokemon can benefit from this too.

Anyway I'm not against adding a second weakness to each type if this metagame turns out to be too stall-friendly. Let's just see how things play out like this first though.

 

[Yayz]

I like this idea a lot. Some of the weaknesses I disagree with, but I didn't come up with a new type chart, so I can't judge.

The question here is, will Stealth Rock be as good as it was before, now only hitting flying types for 25%? Probably, just because it breaks sashes.

 

[Schpoonman]

I don't know, Volcarona only takes neutral damage from Rocks now. That's pretty powerful.

 

[BuriedAlive]

I like this idea a lot. Some of the weaknesses I disagree with, but I didn't come up with a new type chart, so I can't judge.

The question here is, will Stealth Rock be as good as it was before, now only hitting flying types for 25%? Probably, just because it breaks sashes.

Some notable SR damage changes with the new chart
Shedinja: 100% --> 0%? (not sure if this one works considering that spikes hit Shedinja in standard)
Talonflame/Charizard/Moltres: 50% --> 25%
Yanmega/Scyther/Vivillion/etc: 50% --> 25%
Articuno: 50% --> 25%
Volcarona: 50% --> 12.5%
Galvantula: 25% --> 12.5%
Kyurem (all forms): 25% --> 12.5%
Venomoth/Scolipede: 25% --> 12.5%
Pinsir (+ Mega): 25% (50%) --> 12.5% (25%)
Abomasnow: 25% --> 0%
Jumpluff: 25% --> 0%
Gliscor/Landorus: 12.5% --> 25%
Skarmory: 12.5% --> 25%
Excadrill: 3.125% --> 12.5%

On a related note: Are fire types immune to Sticky Web?

 

[Schpoonman]

Mamoswine would still take neutral from Stealth Rock.

 

[BuriedAlive]

Mamoswine would still take neutral from Stealth Rock.

corrected

 

[asterat]

Oh Jesus ban tyranitar.

Also crustle/armaldo have ok immunities and GREAT resists (normal ground)

 

[Yayz]

Shedinja: 100% --> 0%? (not sure if this one works considering that spikes hit Shedinja in standard)

Still 100% because SR has to do some damage upon switch. But I'm currently for adding two SE types hit per attacking type, just saying.

 

[Mulan15262]

Oh Jesus ban tyranitar.

Why, it has 2 weaknesses, 2 resists, and 2 immunities.


I would also be in favor of adding another SE hit and a new weakness for each type, to make it more balanced. I included my proposal for updates here. Each type now has 2 SE hits, 1 NVE hit, 1 ineffective hit, 2 weaknesses, 1 resist, and 1 immunity (with my idea).

Proposed Chart

 

[TalkTakesTime]

I submitted a Pull Request to Joim's github, so if he notices and accepts it, it may be up on the lab soon. ;)

Your code isn't quite complete, but I'll fix it up and add it later today :)

 

[En Passant]

Still 100% because SR has to do some damage upon switch. But I'm currently for adding two SE types hit per attacking type, just saying.

It doesn't have to. It looks like Grass-types won't take any.

Also, adding another vote for one more type matchup.

 

[Rotosect]

Why, it has 2 weaknesses, 2 resists, and 2 immunities.


I would also be in favor of adding another SE hit and a new weakness for each type, to make it more balanced. I included my proposal for updates here. Each type now has 2 SE hits, 1 NVE hit, 1 ineffective hit, 2 weaknesses, 1 resist, and 1 immunity (with my idea).

Proposed Chart

View attachment 9045

Looks solid, but Psychic has 3 weaknesses in this chart.
Since Ghost and Dark hit the same two types for SE damage, it's impossible to stick to the original plan without introducing a new match-up.
If we can clear this up then we can use a chart with two weaknesses instead of one.

 

[Loudo]

Here's my proposal.

I don't recommend making Fairy-types weak to Normal. Too easy coverage for Dragon-types.

EDIT: Please ignore Dragon's weakness to Ice, that's a mistake.

 

[Albacore]

This seems like a very interesting metagame. It will certainly not be kind to sweepers, since nearly everything has 2 resistances, although it's much easier to get neutral coverage. I don't know.
ATM, it's really hard to tell what will be good offensively/defensively, since we don't know what we'll be up against. The metagame might change drastically.

One thing I know for sure is that Rotom-W will be very, very good, probably even better than in standard, since it has 1 resistance, 3 immunities, and no weaknesses. According to Loudo's chart, however, it would be weak to Dragon, which would definitely balance it out.

 

[Cheatingtaco]

Steel should be immune to electric, not vice versa, because metal conducts electricity.

 

[SpartanMalice]

Your code isn't quite complete, but I'll fix it up and add it later today :)

Hmm, can you tell me where exactly? Because I've faced similar problems the last time I tried to code so it'd be helpful if you can PM me about it, in case of future mistakes.

 

[En Passant]

One thing I know for sure is that Rotom-W will be very, very good, probably even better than in standard, since it has 1 resistance, 3 immunities, and no weaknesses. According to Loudo's chart, however, it would be weak to Dragon, which would definitely balance it out.

Are you looking at the right location? Neither chart has Electric resisting Grass (first chart doesn't have Water resisting Dragon either, so it has two weaknesses either way).

 

[Albacore]

Are you looking at the right location? Neither chart has Electric resisting Grass (first chart doesn't have Water resisting Dragon either, so it has two weaknesses either way).

Water isn't weak to Grass in the first chart. Electric is weak to Ground, which is negated by Levitate, and Water is weak to Electric, which is negatedby Electric's resistance to itself, leaving no weaknesses for Rotom-W according to the first chart.

 

[Pikachuun]

Steel should be immune to electric, not vice versa, because metal conducts electricity.

Wouldn't that logic mean that steel would be weak to electric?

 

[Gerard]

I think you're all overestimating the defensiveness of this meta. One Resistance and one Immunity are not enough to wall a significant part of the meta anytime soon. Gliscor for example is weak to rocks and lost it's resistance to fighting, in exchange he got a resistance to grass & only a 2x weak to ice (so special ice attacks will still hurt a lot), similar to Skarmory who lost it's neutrality to rocks while gaining nothing, that happened to many pokemon, many of the lesser used types lost many important resistances while many offensive mons got new neutralizes (which are gonna be a lot more dangerous now).

Basically the difference now it seems that raw stats and set up are gonna be more important than resistances & SE hits. Fighting Types for ex. all of them lost key resistances in Fairy, Poison & Flying (and Bug to an extent), while they still hit all the types they previously hit SE for neutral damage anyway, and most common match ups haven't changed a bit.

 

[TalkTakesTime]

This has been added to Joim's Lab and will be playable after the next restart

edit: now playable!