I think the Sleep ban was inappropriate just as much as the next guy but if the general public that plays the game mostly wanted it gone then I see no reason to axe it, all tiering mumbo jumbo aside. At the end of the day we are all playing this simulated game as we want it to be played, and so if the grand majority wants to play it without sleep, then so be it. That's just how it should be. What I do dislike is some of the reasoning going into areas that I think are dangerous - i.e. a lot of it stated that the Council has the supreme decision making power in matters related to uncompetitiveness and, even though in this situation they likely don't act if the public opinion is different (i.e. 3.5 or lower), it does make some people wonder if in the future they will take action on something linked to Policy simply because they can. I hope that day does not come. All of our tiering is made up really, we created the rules, because that's how we want to play the game, and if people want to play with a mod that's been in use for several years then they should be able to do that if that's what everyone mostly wants (here this was not the case). I appreciate the openness with surveys etc. that the current council is doing.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v4 [Volcarona Banned]
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
ok guys, hear me out. drizzle isn't a problem without archaludon, right? and archaludon is balanced without drizzle, right? so here's my proposal…
Archaludon is an honest mon trying to make a name for itself in the Spikes laden meta. It's not doing anything too fancy, it's just setting up rocks and using its good typing to give it a leg up against the evil threats in the metagame like gambit, gking, and boulder.
Meanwhile Barraskewda and kingdra are getting a free shift gear boost in rain on top of being able to get band / specs damage increases + Tera water for chi-yu levels of damage output. And what about pelipper, the enabler of this whole strategy? The only weather abuser with a slow U-Turn to bring these disgusting breakers in safely. I think we should be questioning these Pokemon before looking at Archie, the underdog and GOAT of the SV dlc2 meta.
Meanwhile Barraskewda and kingdra are getting a free shift gear boost in rain on top of being able to get band / specs damage increases + Tera water for chi-yu levels of damage output. And what about pelipper, the enabler of this whole strategy? The only weather abuser with a slow U-Turn to bring these disgusting breakers in safely. I think we should be questioning these Pokemon before looking at Archie, the underdog and GOAT of the SV dlc2 meta.
The suspect lasts well over a week and the correlation is very limited at absolute best.
I could understand the sleep ban but why was yawn banned? It's more of a phazing move than a sleeping move. Nobody was complaining about yawn. Just curious.
Lol, I'm reading through the tiering policy framework and this is an example.
Oh how the turn tables have turned.
Kudos to the council. I wasn't sure we'd ever see the day where the sleep clause mod got the boot. A broken status condition should get banned; we shouldn't mod the game to accommodate it. Glad to see the council take a firm stance on this especially after some members of the community simply disregarded this discourse as already settled. Hopefully the idea of changing mechanics will never see the light of day again.
The only thing I miss is yawn. I feel like out of everything it should have stayed and simply looked into Hazards being reduced thru any given avenue of why they remain on the field so long in general. Ah well.
oof took a month of break and within one week, sleep clause gets dismantled and kyurem is on the chopping block. big dubs imo.
sleep should've long been gone due to how uniquely powerful all the abusers of it were in SVOU and honestly red card amoong lead was rlly starting to piss me off yikes. glad its gone.
kyurem on the other hand is an interesting suspect, its extremely powerful and strong with spammable main stab and much like a lot of other mons that were toeing the lines in previous gens, i'd say kyu is one of those that rlly benefitted from the sheer existence of tera. will probably post more when the post is unlocked so yay suspect!
sleep should've long been gone due to how uniquely powerful all the abusers of it were in SVOU and honestly red card amoong lead was rlly starting to piss me off yikes. glad its gone.
kyurem on the other hand is an interesting suspect, its extremely powerful and strong with spammable main stab and much like a lot of other mons that were toeing the lines in previous gens, i'd say kyu is one of those that rlly benefitted from the sheer existence of tera. will probably post more when the post is unlocked so yay suspect!
First person to get reqs; I will be voting ban on kyurem.
Kyurem restricts teambuilding way too much to the point I strongly believe a ban is warranted. Whether its the DD tera fire set, specs kyurem, boots, mixed, theres just way too much to take into account with its strong movepool. I believe the best set of kyurem right now is xavgb's mixed set with freeze dry scale shot ice beam and earth power, this set is crazy good and being able to get +1 speed with a special attacking set is amazing right now. Dd kyurem has almost no counterplay if you position it correctly; there is really no good answers right now to loaded dice and spear scale shot + tera blast ground/fire, although one could argue that thats more of a tera blast issue. Even one of Kyurem's best answers in Volcarona is getting trolled as many have decided to run rock slide Kyurem LOL
The last time balance was so heavily pressured and easily destoryed by 1 mon was the release of Hearthflame. Kyurem has no place in OU
Kyurem restricts teambuilding way too much to the point I strongly believe a ban is warranted. Whether its the DD tera fire set, specs kyurem, boots, mixed, theres just way too much to take into account with its strong movepool. I believe the best set of kyurem right now is xavgb's mixed set with freeze dry scale shot ice beam and earth power, this set is crazy good and being able to get +1 speed with a special attacking set is amazing right now. Dd kyurem has almost no counterplay if you position it correctly; there is really no good answers right now to loaded dice and spear scale shot + tera blast ground/fire, although one could argue that thats more of a tera blast issue. Even one of Kyurem's best answers in Volcarona is getting trolled as many have decided to run rock slide Kyurem LOL
The last time balance was so heavily pressured and easily destoryed by 1 mon was the release of Hearthflame. Kyurem has no place in OU
Why do we constantly ban special offensive ice types?
Baxcalibur and chien pao left the chat
Okay, I'll be serious, but only iron bundle is a special ice type that was banned this gen. So even still you could say that ice types have not been banned much, reminder that only 3 ice types have been banned this gen. It most likely seems a lot bigger because there are the least common type, only 60 or so exist.
Yea it's unfortunate we are probably going to lose a naturally special OU ice type. But Kyurem was pretty overbearing. I was personally using Sub/Leftover Kyurem, and it carved pretty big holes in to teams despite coming in on rocks.
Oh well, time to use the other special ice type, Protean Ice beam Greninja lol
Could argue that regieleki was the best special ice type banned this gen
Just like how dragonite is the best normal type in the tier?Could argue that regieleki was the best special ice type banned this gen
sneasler and roaring moon were the best physical flying types bannedCould argue that regieleki was the best special ice type banned this gen
Kingambits the best flying to have ever touched OU though.
Finchinator, after reading through the tiering policy framework, both old and new, I completely understand why you did the decision, but oh boy, is tiering policy complicated. I read through it like three times and I'm still processing some of it. Sleep was a complex issue, but the justification behind the banning of it didn't go against tiering policy and actually is quite in line for it. I urge people to read it because it is quite indepth and complex, so understanding it is a good idea for knowledge on decisions.
For the second time this Gen the council has failed miserably in running the gen imo. The first of course being the Volc ban and the most recent being banning sleep WITHOUT a suspect test, banning a whole status that has been fine in every gen outside of gen 5 without a suspect test is a bit outrageous imo. The clear problem child was Darkrai and maybe Iron Val (who's broken anyway), nobody actually thinks that Amoonguss using spore is broken and breaks the game.
As for Kyurem, that shit needed banning after week 2 if not earlier so this suspect is only a good thing, I hope it gets banned.
As for Kyurem, that shit needed banning after week 2 if not earlier so this suspect is only a good thing, I hope it gets banned.
Everything is explained as clear cut as possible, if you don't think they should've banned sleep is one thing but the procedure is well explained and documented with precedent as to why it happened the way it did. The method is hardly the problem - it's just whether you think Sleep should've been changed in the first place.
We made page 200, and the thread only has been locked up a couple of times
Kyurem being the suspect test makes sense, specs set has virtually no switch-ins combined with the fact that it also has a few other sets that are also threatening in their own right. Considering the playerbase's thoughts on this guy, its probably gonna end in a ban for Baxcalibur 2.
Kyurem being the suspect test makes sense, specs set has virtually no switch-ins combined with the fact that it also has a few other sets that are also threatening in their own right. Considering the playerbase's thoughts on this guy, its probably gonna end in a ban for Baxcalibur 2.
I'm sorry but I completely disagree, making a change as BIG as banning sleep, something that has been part of competitive pokemon since the start and has been fine all gen until Darkrai was dropped should always be suspect tested, not giving the playerbase a say when there's so much time to solve the generation will always be a mistake.
The playerbase DID get a say, it's the entire reason it went to a council vote in the first place. The entire process is completely standard and is hardly a failure to the community.
Gambit got significant support in a survey yet failed it's suspect test, banning something as big as sleep should have been suspect tested.