SM OU (1500+) Ash-Gren Bulky Offense

[Metallknacker]

The Team
​

New Version: https://pokepast.es/5073440597dd7a2f


Old Version:

Greninja-Ash (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Spikes

First of all, Ash-Greninja is my favourite Pokemon and I build the team around it. I use the normal Ash-Greninja set with Choice Specs Dual-Stab, Water-shuriken and Spikes. Dual-Stab to hit incredibly strong and Water-shuriken to clean up in the late game. Spikes is the last move of my choice which I can use if the opponent has to switch out.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Protect

Heatran is my Fire-type and it helps Greninja dealing witch mons like M-Scizor, Ferrothorn and Magearna. With Magma Storm it has a strong Fire-type Stab and it can even trap Chansey and let it die to Toxic. Stealth Rock is a must have move on every Team and it helps against Quiver Dance Bug Buzz HP Ground Z-Fire Blast Volcarona which is very strong against me. Toxic helps against bulky mons like Chansey (only when it's trapped with Magma Storm), Clefable, Rotom-Wash and Tangrowth. Protect is for scouting and healing with Leftovers or just let the opponents Pokemon die to Toxic. It also has a good synergy with Tapu Bulu. With Leftovers + Grassy Terrain + Protect it has a good recovery and Grassy Terrain helps Heatran against Earthquake.

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Defog
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Landorus-Therian is also one of my favourite Pokemon and in this Team I run Rocky helmet defog Lando. Earthquake is a really good Ground-Stab and it helps against Heatran, Magearna and Tapu Koko. HP Ice helps dealing with opposing Landos and Garchomp. With 144 Speed EVs it can outspeed Modest Heatran and Jolly Magearna.

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Synthesis


My next Pokemon is Tapu Bulu which has a great Synergy with Heatran. Heatran defeats mons like Ferrothorn, Bulu and M-Scizor while Bulu kills mons like Ash-Gren, Fini and Ttar. Horn Leech is a very strong Stab in Grassy-Terrain which gives Bulu with Grassy-Terrain, Leftovers and Synthesis a very good Coverage. Superpower is good against Excadrill, Kartana and Ferrothorn. With the given special defense EVs, Bulk Up and Synthesis Bulu can easily Sweep Teams.

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Mawile is one of the best Wallbreakers and Megas in the Tier and has a really good Base Attack. Play Rough is one of the best Fairy-type moves and with Swords Dance it almost 2hits every pokemon. Knock Off helps against defensive Mons like Chansey. Sucker Punch is almost a must-have on Mawile because of its low Speed and is good against Mega-Kazam and other faster mons. 164 Speed EVs allow Mawile to outspeed Skarmory.

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Toxic

Volt Switch is a good Move for Pivoting with Zapdos and its a good Stab move. Heat wave helps dealing with Bulu and Kartana and Roost is a must have on every Zapdos and it can outstall defensive mons with Toxic and Roost. Static is good to punish Lando and Koko for U-turning. With 72 Speed Evs it can outspeed Modest Heatran.



https://pokepast.es/82a959affbed717d

 

[LandoLando]

Pretty solid team, but one thing I'd say is your team seems a little weak to mons like Mega Alakazam and Lele, as they have a move for pretty much every mon in your team. Mawile could probably deal with alaka, with sucker punch, but lele is a different story as it has psychic terrain. Bulu could probably tank a hit or 2, but they are still pretty threatening. Sadly, I'm not the best teambuilder in the world, so i can't really say how to build around this, so I'll leave that in your hands.
But yeah, pretty solid team.

 

[Metallknacker]

What's about Scarf Lando with Eq, Defog, U-turn and Explosion against Lele? Could this work? Or Iron head on Mawile instead of Swords Dance

 

[LandoLando]

What's about Scarf Lando with Eq, Defog, U-turn and Explosion against Lele? Could this work? Or Iron head on Mawile instead of Swords Dance

The Lando set sounds alright, but that isnt really NEEDED for lele, but can still be useful. I wouldn't really recommend having Iron Head on Mawile, since Play Rough can still usually OHKO lele, it all comes down to whether it has HP Fire or not, and if its specs. Im pretty sure, unless its specs then mawile can barely live a hp fire from full, so youll need to watch out for that.

 

[Metallknacker]

Ok, thanks. I'll keep this in mind. So I don't change anything? Or should I change Lando? Cuz Im pretty happy with Rocky Helmet Lando.

 

[LandoLando]

Ok, thanks. I'll keep this in mind. So I don't change anything? Or should I change Lando? Cuz Im pretty happy with Rocky Helmet Lando.

Either one works, so It's up to you :)

 

[Robot7620]

Sorry for reviving, I'm new please let me know if there's some kind of rule against this.
Your team gets screwed over by Serp+Heatran
Serp kills Ash-Gren
And the standard Tran set has Earth Power, which screws your Heatran over, and nothing else resists it basically.
As your Lando isn't SpDef, the only thing that could possible work around this core, Serp doesn't take jack from defensive Lando, and Lando doesn't kill it's substitutes, so you're letting Serp sweep, once Heatran is gone.

 

[Metallknacker]

When theres a serp I can juts switch in mawile and free knock off. If my opponent switches into heatran I get a Knock off and a Sucker punch into tran and can kill it after stealth rocks most likely. And I can tank a +2 HP fire from standart substitute serp and kill it with knock off into sucker punch too. Or I can just sac a mon against serp and can free switch in mawile. I hope you can understand it, Im really bad in english.

200 SpA Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 90-108 (34 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 209-246 (68.5 - 80.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 151-178 (49.5 - 58.3%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 190-224 (49.2 - 58%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 137-162 (35.4 - 41.9%) -- 86.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Robot7620]

Ah I see.
Also your english is great I'd think you're a native speaker if i didn't know.
I'm wondering if Lando-T could beat your MMawile.
Double Dance Lando-T with ROckium Z

 

[Gillysuit902]

Literally signed up to the forums to say I'm 4-0 with this team and it's really great.
Excellent work!

 

[Metallknacker]

Yeah i think lando beats mawile. Even with intimidate from mawile, lando is to strong. Specially beacause of its own intimidate ao mawile doesnt do enough demoge to 2hko it with knock off/play rough and sucker punch i think.

 

[xOliver]

tbh id make bulu banded because it hits so hard and powerful:
Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 84 HP / 248 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Stone Edge

Mawile

You mention how you want mawile to outspeed skarm but you have no answer to it, to which I say: put fire fang instead of knock off. Knock off isnt really needed when you one shot everything in the tier but could still prove to be useful in various situations.
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

 

[Metallknacker]

Ok, thanks, I'll will change Bulu and Mawile. Could you explain the EVs of Tapu bulu and can I also put fire fang instead of Swords dance? I almost never use Swords Dance and I like Knock off on mawile.

 

[DYA]

Ok, thanks, I'll will change Bulu and Mawile. Could you explain the EVs of Tapu bulu and can I also put fire fang instead of Swords dance? I almost never use Swords Dance and I like Knock off on mawile.

From Tapu Bulu's analysis:
The HP investment allows Tapu Bulu to always avoid a 2HKO from Ash-Greninja prior to transformation after Stealth Rock. Meanwhile, the Speed investment allows Tapu Bulu to get the jump on the likes of Tyranitar and Crawdaunt. The remainder of EVs are pooled into Attack.

 

[xOliver]

Ok, thanks, I'll will change Bulu and Mawile. Could you explain the EVs of Tapu bulu and can I also put fire fang instead of Swords dance? I almost never use Swords Dance and I like Knock off on mawile.

Fire Fang SUCKS on mawile. Swords dance lets it boost its attack to levels where fire fang is obselete.

 

[Metallknacker]

Bump

 

[Robot7620]

Scarf Lando-T pretty much dismantles everything except Bulu

 

[Animesh_]

Ehh.... I thinks the team pretty good already...Good job making it dude ;)
And yeah... as seen in the above comments, your team is kinda weak to lando t but you have a bulky bulu.. I said bulky cuz you should not make it banded.Why? because you already have Mega Maw...Its usually enough for a wall/stall breaker.And you should change Lando set to scarf lando because you don't have any scarfer and your team lacks speed control other than gren, and yeah change toxic to HP ice or Discharge on Zapdos as you already have heatran as a toxic user....Other than that, the team looks good.....

Scarf lando set-

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 232 Atk / 68 Def / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Defog


And Zapdos set-

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Hidden Power Ice/Discharge

 

[Diophantine]

The Team
​

View attachment 197829View attachment 197830View attachment 197831View attachment 197832View attachment 197833View attachment 197834




View attachment 197838Greninja-Ash (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Battle Bond
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Water Shuriken
- Spikes

First of all, Ash-Greninja is my favourite Pokemon and I build the team around it. I use the normal Ash-Greninja set with Choice Specs Dual-Stab, Water-shuriken and Spikes. Dual-Stab to hit incredibly strong and Water-shuriken to clean up in the late game. Spikes is the last move of my choice which I can use if the opponent has to switch out.



View attachment 197839Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Protect

Heatran is my Fire-type and it helps Greninja dealing witch mons like M-Scizor, Ferrothorn and Magearna. With Magma Storm it has a strong Fire-type Stab and it can even trap Chansey and let it die to Toxic. Stealth Rock is a must have move on every Team and it helps against Quiver Dance Bug Buzz HP Ground Z-Fire Blast Volcarona which is very strong against me. Toxic helps against bulky mons like Chansey (only when it's trapped with Magma Storm), Clefable, Rotom-Wash and Tangrowth. Protect is for scouting and healing with Leftovers or just let the opponents Pokemon die to Toxic. It also has a good synergy with Tapu Bulu. With Leftovers + Grassy Terrain + Protect it has a good recovery and Grassy Terrain helps Heatran against Earthquake.



View attachment 197890Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Defog
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Landorus-Therian is also one of my favourite Pokemon and in this Team I run Rocky helmet defog Lando. Earthquake is a really good Ground-Stab and it helps against Heatran, Magearna and Tapu Koko. HP Ice helps dealing with opposing Landos and Garchomp. With 144 Speed EVs it can outspeed Modest Heatran and Jolly Magearna.



View attachment 197893Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Bulk Up
- Synthesis


My next Pokemon is Tapu Bulu which has a great Synergy with Heatran. Heatran defeats mons like Ferrothorn, Bulu and M-Scizor while Bulu kills mons like Ash-Gren, Fini and Ttar. Horn Leech is a very strong Stab in Grassy-Terrain which gives Bulu with Grassy-Terrain, Leftovers and Synthesis a very good Coverage. Superpower is good against Excadrill, Kartana and Ferrothorn. With the given special defense EVs, Bulk Up and Synthesis Bulu can easily Sweep Teams.




View attachment 197896Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Swords Dance

Mawile is one of the best Wallbreakers and Megas in the Tier and has a really good Base Attack. Play Rough is one of the best Fairy-type moves and with Swords Dance it almost 2hits every pokemon. Knock Off helps against defensive Mons like Chansey. Sucker Punch is almost a must-have on Mawile because of its low Speed and is good against Mega-Kazam and other faster mons. 164 Speed EVs allow Mawile to outspeed Skarmory.



View attachment 197926Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Heat Wave
- Roost
- Toxic

Volt Switch is a good Move for Pivoting with Zapdos and its a good Stab move. Heat wave helps dealing with Bulu and Kartana and Roost is a must have on every Zapdos and it can outstall defensive mons with Toxic and Roost. Static is good to punish Lando and Koko for U-turning. With 72 Speed Evs it can outspeed Modest Heatran.



https://pokepast.es/82a959affbed717d

Hey, I spent a bit of thinking about how I could improve this team.

The first thing that stood out to me was that opposing Heatran had a really good time against this team. I also felt that Landorus felt kind of out of place here because it is acting as a Defogger, but not really doing much else. I figured Defog Gliscor would be a better fit for the team because it Defogs on more Pokemon, has greater longevity, and it is the all-important Heatran switch-in.

Gliscor set

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 52 Def / 76 SpD / 136 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Roost
- Knock Off / Toxic

You can go with Toxic or Knock Off for the last move. As the Smogon analysis says, Knock Off allows Gliscor to cripple Pokemon such as Celesteela. Alternatively, Toxic can be run to nail common Ground-type switch-ins such as Tapu Bulu, Tornadus-T, and Landorus-T.

Toxic also puts Hawlucha on a timer.

I was also thinking about how you could overcome the Tapu Lele weakness. I figured Tornadus-Therian over Zapdos would help you out. It outspeeds Lele and can chip it with U-Turn; it is not dependent on a move for recovering thanks to Regenerator; and it acts as a Kartana check. Essentially, your team relies on chip damage to deal with Lele, and so another way of applying this helps out more. The lack of a Choice Scarf user remains a problem, but you have dual priority and some counterplay to a lot of the faster threats in the tier. I also gave Tornadus Heat Wave as a form of Fire-type coverage that you lose by replacing Zapdos.

Tornadus set

Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 Spe
Timid Nature
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
The speed is to outspeed Serperior, the rest is dumped into Defence. There are several other moves you could consider here, such as Taunt and Focus Blast. Feel free to experiment.

I hope you like the changes. For the sake of the team, I may as well argue some of the points made in this thread.

tbh id make bulu banded because it hits so hard and powerful:
Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 84 HP / 248 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Stone Edge

I disagree with adding this. You already have a Mawile, so this doesn't really need to be here as they overlap roles. You also become considerably weaker to Ash Greninja as you take more from attacks, lack Leftovers, and are forced to Horn Leech if you want any recovery.

Fire Fang SUCKS on mawile. Swords dance lets it boost its attack to levels where fire fang is obselete.

While Fire Fang is unnecessary on this team, generally speaking it is not a bad option for and AoA Mawile. It deals with Ferrothorn, Scizor, the opposing Mawile 1v1, does more to Magearna, etc etc.

 

[Metallknacker]

Thanks to all of you guys. I'll change Lando to Gliscor. I think I'll try Torn but I'm not a big fan of it and Zapdos was in almost every battle the Key player. And even with Torn Scarf Lele beats my hole Team except Mawile. Is there anyone else who's got an idea about dealing with scarf lele?