1v1 Suspect Poll: Z-Detect

[akaFila]

Fail to grasp why a suspect would even be preferred by the player base as opposed to a quickban. Odds are it’s gone whichever method is carried out. Who actually wants to keep Z-Detect

Save the time, Quickban

 

[LORD HELIX 65]

Let’s be honest. We all know that in the end, Z-detect is going to be banned regardless of the suspect test. Save time and quickban it.

 

[The Immortal]

Honestly, I may not be the most qualified person in the world, but this poll doesn't make any sense for me. It's essentially letting people vote on it's ban (by voting for quickban) without getting it's suspect reqs, which in my opinion, isn't right. I'm personally on the fence (I know I made that deo-s post but opinions change alright). Why can't we strike a balance like every other metagame on this website and just suspect it, instead of swinging from one extreme to the other?

What Z-Detect does is straightforward. Unlike a Pokemon, you don't need a suspect test to understand what it's about or to try it out for yourself. By opting to quickban, we can spend the time looking at something else. Also, a suspect test on Z-Detect might not be very enticing to the community, which would result in fewer participants as compared to a suspect test on a Pokemon.

 

[discoplaygames]

What Z-Detect does is straightforward. Unlike a Pokemon, you don't need a suspect test to understand what it's about or to try it out for yourself. By opting to quickban, we can spend the time looking at something else. Also, a suspect test on Z-Detect might not be very enticing to the community, which would result in fewer participants as compared to a suspect test on a Pokemon.

(not sure what I'm doing wrong so I'll just leave it like this)


[QUOTE="The Immortal, post: 7975699, member: 62285" ] What Z-Detect does is straightforward. Unlike a Pokemon, you don't need a suspect test to understand what it's about or to try it out for yourself. [/QUOTE]

That's not what I'm basing my argument on. and also, if your in a banning suspect, you should already know what something does before obtaining reqs, so I dont personally think this is an issue.

[QUOTE="The Immortal, post: 7975699, member: 62285" ] By opting to quickban, we can spend the time looking at something else. [/QUOTE]

I don't think this is an very good reason either. Other matters that are currently controversial (sleep, serene grace) have been debated for months upon months, and I don't think another 4-6 weeks for the suspect and a cooling of period would do any more harm, especially since discussion is still going on in public discussion forums like the 1v1 room.

[QUOTE="The Immortal, post: 7975699, member: 62285" ] Also, a suspect test on Z-Detect might not be very enticing to the community, which would result in fewer participants as compared to a suspect test on a Pokemon. [/QUOTE]

I personally think a suspect should be based on the voters dedication to the metagame , not being enticed to vote. People who vote should the players dedicated to the metagame, who can spend time fully forming and opinion and debating it along with being good enough to gain req's. But leaving the poll to be entirely public, which is my main point, is a bad idea because it could let players inexperienced in the metagame influence the ban of something, which should be avoided in my opinion. If you want more people to vote in the suspect, then make the reqs easier or offer encouragement for people to vote in poll.

 

[pqs]

suspect


BAN DEOXYS S INSTEAD COUNCIL

 

[ImKoolKidz]

suspect.

tbh, z-evasion isnt too hard to counter, but it can get p annoying, even though ive only faced it around 3-4 b4 in the past.

 

[Kaif]

Z-Detect needs to go, and we would be wasting our time getting suspect reqs to get the same end result of ban. While Z-Detect can be a bit gimmicky and would not work in a 6v6 metagame since you can phaze it out, you cannot do this in 1v1. This can lead to missing a move and losing the game over some stupid evasion boost, and this would make me throw my computer to know that I won, but lost because of this shitty Z-Detect.

so according to your logic, we should ban focus blast too because I can miss it and lose the game. ok cool, ya'll act like there is no counter play to z-detect

 

[Ginger Princess]

so according to your logic, we should ban focus blast too because I can miss it and lose the game. ok cool, ya'll act like there is no counter play to z-detect

theres a huge inherent difference in choosing to run a low accuracy move and facing an opponent that makes your moves miss. When you want to run something that is high risk, high reward, you can do that, all the power to yeah, its your freedom as a competitive player to run that risk. However, when facing against a strategy that effective turns every single move into Focus Blast accuracy-wise, this removes any control from you as a player, and thus isn't a competitive strategy. You're essentially forcing your opponent at a disadvantage that they had no choice about, like damaging your opponents controller in a fighting game, where the controller only works 75% of the time.

 

[Kaif]

theres a huge inherent difference in choosing to run a low accuracy move and facing an opponent that makes your moves miss. When you want to run something that is high risk, high reward, you can do that, all the power to yeah, its your freedom as a competitive player to run that risk.

true

However, when facing against a strategy that effective turns every single move into Focus Blast accuracy-wise, this removes any control from you as a player, and thus isn't a competitive strategy. You're essentially forcing your opponent at a disadvantage that they had no choice about, like damaging your opponents controller in a fighting game, where the controller only works 75% of the time.

this is also true but let's look at it from the detect / evasion users point of view +1 evasion is 1.33x evasion which from testing has a decent chance of the user losing. So tell me, are you going to go into 1v1pl or some tour and use z-detect?

Moreover, are we banning sleep because I have no control over how many turns I'm slept for? Are we banning spore because it's 100% accurate although it's only counterplay is being a grass type?

Z-Detect and all Z-Evasion moves are just a bad source of evasion that loses you more games than it wins you. Banning it BEFORE other things like sleep would just be stupid. The people who are saying "it's gonna be banned anyway, save the time and qb it" We didn't quickban Tapu Koko although it was stupidly broken, we saw what the majority of the community said and suspected it.

 

[Ban_that_shit]

ban, (and please ban togekiss too) because people can just spam sub until the opponent misses, and do like leech seed/ recover(pressure stall) or whatever to outplay you. especially Deo-S has just a few potencial counters to it if it carries Z-Detect.

 

[Kowasabii]

I would like to see a suspect test personally because I'm not sure what I'd vote for. If a mom like yanmega can abuse to the point where it's very difficult to beat, it could be ban worthy.

I still really don't think z-detect is problematic. If anything it gives otherwise useless Pokémon a niche in the meta that's easily taken down by common taunters. It only gives a slight boost (will still be as accurate as magma storm) and it only has 8 PP so it's not very good for PP stalling

 

[TheMintyAltoids]

I agree with Heavy Storming on this one. The amount of viable pokemon is getting and will continue to get smaller and smaller the more we ban. We should reserve bans for things that are actually a prevalent issue in the meta.
This ban would make a number of pokemon unviable for something that isn’t even uncompetitive. I personally haven’t encountered any of these on the ladder and don’t think that they are extremely common and aren’t not deserving of a ban. These pokemon are very niche and most pokemon that are commonly run can take them down regardless of the small boost in evasion. I don’t think the options should be limited to either a ban or a suspect because I don’t believe that it is a big enough issue that either is necessary.

 

[oar1112]

You sound like ryy, just land your shots. Lets do some math.
Assume you have less than 476 speed. You will now be outsped by a +1 Speed Boost yanmega. In order for him to roost, he has 5 chances for you to miss what is AT LEAST 75% accuracy on his substitutes. There is a 23% chance of this not happening. After this, if the 77% comes through, every 3 turns he needs you to miss at least one. You have a 43% chance of hitting all 3 of them.
Assuming 100% accuracy on a move that will one shot him (which it might not), you need to either hit the first 5 shots, or if you miss one, hit 3 consecutive shots. This probability is not very high.
And it is pure probability.
Uncompetetive

I didnt want to complete the math cuz im lazy, but according to PartMan/ryyjyywyy, the math equates to -moa ~75% chance to win as a detect user without Z moves. Thats.... balanced.

Said it yourself, z-detect should not be banned, the probability of you winning is balanced compared to some other sets, which have a way higher chance of winning.

 

[Dragonmirror]

Said it yourself, z-detect should not be banned, the probability of you winning is balanced compared to some other sets, which have a way higher chance of winning.

I was joking when i said balanced : |
Also, name one set that has a ~75% winrate across a significant majority of the meta pls, I dont know of any.

 

[Chrispy Burns]

Ban detect only. Its a sneaky way to pass the evasion clause and while it can't continuously stack like double team, the whole intention of running z-detect is to take skill out of the equation. Other irrelevant reasons to ban detect are that it helps lower ladder/ new players choose the higher PP protect and that getting an evasion boost just to get ohko'd or missing all of the time is just less fun for both parties. But yeah, ban detect.

 

[Kaif]

You sound like ryy, just land your shots. Lets do some math.
Assume you have less than 476 speed. You will now be outsped by a +1 Speed Boost yanmega. In order for him to roost, he has 5 chances for you to miss what is AT LEAST 75% accuracy on his substitutes. There is a 23% chance of this not happening. After this, if the 77% comes through, every 3 turns he needs you to miss at least one. You have a 43% chance of hitting all 3 of them.
Assuming 100% accuracy on a move that will one shot him (which it might not), you need to either hit the first 5 shots, or if you miss one, hit 3 consecutive shots. This probability is not very high.
And it is pure probability.
Uncompetetive

lmfao this shit is hella funny since this would be perfect in a sleep ban

I didnt want to complete the math cuz im lazy, but according to PartMan/ryyjyywyy, the math equates to a ~75% chance to win as a detect user without Z moves. Thats.... balanced.

fuck is that math mate

I was joking when i said balanced : |
Also, name one set that has a ~75% winrate across a significant majority of the meta pls, I dont know of any.

so ur the type of guy who'd go into 1v1 world cup finals tiebreakers and use z-detect because u have a decent chance to lose, aite then.
Z-Detect is far more bad than any other set for every single mon, I wouldn't mind its ban but banning it is stupid anyway since its bad. Who even uses this in high ladder?
Also name a mon that gets hard bodied by z-detect and has 0% chance to win, if you can name that I'll vote for a ban.

just ur hit ur move 4Head

 

[Dragonmirror]

Ok I’ll consider just my hit my move four head, whatever that means.

 

[Dragonmirror]

lmfao this shit is hella funny since this would be perfect in a sleep ban

fuck is that math mate

so ur the type of guy who'd go into 1v1 world cup finals tiebreakers and use z-detect because u have a decent chance to lose, aite then.
Z-Detect is far more bad than any other set for every single mon, I wouldn't mind its ban but banning it is stupid anyway since its bad. Who even uses this in high ladder?
Also name a mon that gets hard bodied by z-detect and has 0% chance to win, if you can name that I'll vote for a ban.

just ur hit ur move 4Head

Just read this post. "This is funny" "Is that math" "Detect is a terrible strat and you are fucking stupid just hit your shots"

>hm

 

[Cantius]

I would say ban. The reason for the success Deoxys-Speed's Z-Detect set is access to Taunt and absurd speed.
Now take that sleep and Serene Grace mons
a) don't have absurd speeds
b) don't use Taunt.
These Pokemon are just beaten by Pokemon that are faster than them and often lack power. In contrast, almost nothing outspeeds Deoxys-Speed.

 

[Kaif]

I would say ban. The reason for the success Deoxys-Speed's Z-Detect set is access to Taunt and absurd speed.
Now take that sleep and Serene Grace mons
a) don't have absurd speeds
b) don't use Taunt.
These Pokemon are just beaten by Pokemon that are faster than them and often lack power. In contrast, almost nothing outspeeds Deoxys-Speed.

what success lmfao, z-detect DeoS is the worst deoS set

Ok I’ll consider just my hit my move four head, whatever that means.

4Head is a twitch emote and implies that im being sarcastic

Just read this post. "This is funny" "Is that math" "Detect is a terrible strat and you are fucking stupid just hit your shots"

>hm

I said that because your post provides no actual substance according to the suspect philosophy. If the council cared about math, sleep would have been banned way long ago mate

 

[DarkBeserker]

Do not ban tbh

 

[Cantius]

what success lmfao, z-detect DeoS is the worst deoS set


4Head is a twitch emote and implies that im being sarcastic

I said that because your post provides no actual substance according to the suspect philosophy. If the council cared about math, sleep would have been banned way long ago mate

Perhaps let me rephrase it. Taunt and an absurd speed are what makes Deoxys-Speed no fun to play against.