Answers/Counters to various specific pokemon in Battle Spot singles

[Sara Sol]

Historically I've drawn off of the ou analyses and the global link information to figure out how to beat various individual pokemon, but often the discussions aren't geared towards the spot metagame. I hope this thread is an acceptable place to ask about specific pokemon in spot.

Two pokemon I've had a lot of difficulty preparing for are Cresselia and Thundurus-I (not as a pair necessarily or anything).

Cresselia stymies me by seemingly shrugging off physical attacks while dealing damage back with rocky helmet (and being immune to the non-contact eq) all while having access to significant special bulk along with moonlight and occasionally calm mind. I've had some success utilizing approaches ranging from Volcarona to Sand to Toxic, but I feel that my answers have been overly specific.

Thundurus-I has also been difficult for me to deal with in general. The prankster attacker version is the main variant I have encountered thus far, and outside of Mega-Ven, I don't feel I have any decent response to it between Prankster T-wave and the fairly hard-hitting coverage options it possesses on top of its naturally good stats.

 

[Hulavuta]

I personally use Tyranitar and Aegislash and they do well against both of these Pokemon. They can take pretty much anything from either Pokemon and beat them somewhat reliably (Not sure if Thundurus use Focus Blast...but Tyranitar can survive it with Assault Vest). Otherwise, Hydreigon seems to do very well against Cresselia for me as well, just spamming Dark Pulses on it while it can't really do much back. If it's Calm Mind you'll have to get it early before it boosts too much, or hope for some luck with a flinch or crit.

 

[ethan06]

This is a good idea for a thread actually so kudos :) The OP could be written in a more general way but the premise is good. Especially in Singles, I find that there are a lot of Pokémon that need to be specifically prepared for somehow. Mega Kang, Mega Venusaur, Talonflame and Rotom-Wash are all Pokémon that need specific measures to be taken to beat them, i.e. Grass move or Mold Breaker Earthquake for Rotom, Psychic- or Flying-type moves to break Mega Venu and a limit on Grass and Bug mons in case you run into Talonflame, Ghosts carrying WoW for Kang etc. Pooling a couple of catch-all checks here to help beginners with teambuilding wouldn't hurt in the slightest imo :)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

As a Cresselia user (all hail Flame Orb Cresselia) the thing that screws her the most is probably... Taunt. Anything with Taunt with reasonable bulk pretty much gets to setup for free against any Moonduck. Sub Mega Scizor gets to do what it wants too (and you can ready yourself for the revival of Mega Kang, etc.).

Volcarona is a solid 1v1 check, but it will become easy pickings for Cress' teammates if it gets statused.

 

[Di@8]

This is a great thread idea as conventional OU analysis and sets don't really apply for this type of metagame. Those only go so far in a world of mega-Kang/Gengar, Blaziken, minimize spammers, etc.

Best checks for Cresselia easily Taunt and Toxic users. Her bulk is annoying but she is helpless without status moves as her SpA is awful.

The best check I've had for Thundurus is Hippowdon. Thanks to its special bulk even HP ice is only to 2-3 hit ko, and you can Rock Slide it to death easily. Hippo has easily been the best poke used in singles as it checks a lot of others well like Talon, Mawhile, Lucario, etc. Set has been fairly standard too:

Hippowdon Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Slack Off
Toxic

I love Lum Berry on it because most people try to status it and allows you to fire your own Toxic or EQ safely. It foregoes hazards because they are too costly to set up here, and Rock Slide will OHKO Talonflame, Char Y, and at least hit Gengar pre-mega. It's won me more battles than I can count, and I'm hovering around 1750 right now.

 

[DrZoidburglar]

Any specific taunt/toxic users people would recommend for Cresselia? I hadn't run into her very often until recently, but as soon as I broke ~1650 rating a few days ago it seems like every team has one. I'm thinking of training a Gliscor, defensive Gyrados, or Mandibuzz? Poison heal Gliscor being able to sponge status attempts seems tempting, but I've never used him.

EDIT: For that matter, what grass-type attackers do people like using for ground/water types? Rotom-W is fragile enough that any strong attack can deal with it, but I've occasionally been walled by Swampert and Quagsire.

 

[Age of Kings]

Not mentioned yet, but Bisharp is a pretty great check for Cresselia sans the random Psycho Shift variants.

Thundurus-I is a broken piece of shit and I'm 50-50 against it lmao. I usually send Thundurus-T against it and pray it doesn't have Swagger or +2 HP Ice.

 

[cant say]

There's an interactive threat list thread lying around here but it died off a while ago, we could maybe try and bump it and write up our own stuff for it? Either that or this thread is a good idea..

EDIT: For that matter, what grass-type attackers do people like using for ground/water types? Rotom-W is fragile enough that any strong attack can deal with it, but I've occasionally been walled by Swampert and Quagsire.

Solar Beam from Char-Y is pretty potent, other than him and mega Venu I've found grass types to be few and far between

 

[ethan06]

Gourgeist is decent as a hard counter to physical Mega Kangaskhan but it has problems with Talonflame and gets destroyed by more or less every special attacker in the game (including Kang carrying Fire Blast or Ice Fang). It's also sketchy against Rotom-W because it hates Will-o-Wisp...

re good Taunt users, Taunt Mega Gyarados is absolutely amazing in Battle Spot assuming you've cleared out any Grass-types. Mold Breaker runs through Levitators (specifically Rotom) and bypasses random things like Dry Skin and Oblivious. I ran a base Gyarados a while ago and it was great, Mega Gyarados can only really be better :)

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Jolly/Adamant
Intimidate -> Mold Breaker
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
-Taunt
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Earthquake

 

[Age of Kings]

Solar Beam from Char-Y is pretty potent, other than him and mega Venu I've found grass types to be few and far between

Ferrothorn is a great Pokemon in the meta and commonly used, especially since it's typically run as a Kanga check. There's also Breloom and the occasional Amoonguss, Roserade, and Virizion....but yeah, other than those, there aren't many Grass-types. (May I take a moment to further lament the no-event ban? Celebi and Shaymin would be fun to run. Ok, maybe no Shaymin-S. Damn. Why can't GF do a little more complex bans?)

Honestly though, Quagsire and Swampert also don't hold up very well to special based nukes (252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Quagsire: 204-242 (100.9 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO) or Toxic.

 

[Sara Sol]

I'd be happy to rewrite the opening post if people have tips on formatting/content.

Typically I go to aegislash vs Cress, but the day of the original post Aeg met calm mind and didn't put out enough damage with the shadow balls :(
The Thundurus-I's I have encountered have packed focus blast, which has kinda sucked for my T-tar. I've never raised a Hippo, and I shall test it out!
As for mega gyarados, does Jolly allow it to out speed anything super notable, or should one stick to adamant for simplicity?

 

[ethan06]

Jolly allows you to always outspeed base 80s like Gardevoir and unboosted Dragonite and base Blaziken, and outpace random Scarfed 80s like Chandelure and Mamoswine after a boost. You also have a shot at outpacing max speed Rotom formes (which iirc never run +Speed nature unless Scarfed, in which case you can tank an Electric move and Earthquake them in a pinch). You have a chance to OHKO 4/0 Tyranitar with Waterfall unboosted with Adamant however - Jolly does a max of 98%. +1 Waterfall is also guaranteed to OHKO Charizard Y if you're Adamant. Other than that, most OHKOs and 2HKOs don't change on the mons in top usage either way. It's up to you but I recommend Jolly now that I've actually researched it a little

 

[Sara Sol]

Loved the suggestions!
Gyarados has been super kind to me.
For another specific pokemon that can be problematic, are there a variety of good answers to Klefki? I've heard good things about unaware quagsire, and personally have had success with lumchomp, there has to be other non-niche (ie not krookodile) answers, right? I've seen both screens and swagpara klefkis, with the latter being by far the most prevalent.

 

[BWong]

Loved the suggestions!
Gyarados has been super kind to me.
For another specific pokemon that can be problematic, are there a variety of good answers to Klefki? I've heard good things about unaware quagsire, and personally have had success with lumchomp, there has to be other non-niche (ie not krookodile) answers, right? I've seen both screens and swagpara klefkis, with the latter being by far the most prevalent.

Taunt Thunderus works well on swagkeys.

 

[ethan06]

Ground types are by far the best catch-all answers to Klefki, as every good Klefki set runs Thunder Wave to cripple the opponent and make it easier to set itself up. LumChomp works well against SwagPlay in general. I guess you could also use Fire Blast if you predict a Reflect :) As BWong said, Thundurus (or any faster Prankster mon) with Taunt completely shuts down every kind of Klefki - Whimsicott is useful as it takes far less damage from Foul Play than Thundurus would, and can also support the team and open up setup opportunities with Encore+Taunt, slow U-Turns, para spread and Memento.

 

[Sara Sol]

I'd totally go for a Thundurus, but lacking a gen 5 cart to rng off of (or a king's ransom in shinies, it seems), I've gone without. Haven't considered whimsicott, but I'll look into it. I've fought the thing twice while being superbly grumpy fighting it both times, so it does interest me a bit.

 

[BWong]

I'd totally go for a Thundurus, but lacking a gen 5 cart to rng off of (or a king's ransom in shinies, it seems), I've gone without. Haven't considered whimsicott, but I'll look into it. I've fought the thing twice while being superbly grumpy fighting it both times, so it does interest me a bit.

If you are interested I can hack one for you if you would like. Shoot me a PM.

 

[Purgatory]

How do you guys handle Mega-Blaziken and LO Speed Boost regular Blaziken? They don't seem that common, which is rather strange, really, but whenever I see one it tends to be troublesome.

 

[BWong]

How do you guys handle Mega-Blaziken and LO Speed Boost regular Blaziken? They don't seem that common, which is rather strange, really, but whenever I see one it tends to be troublesome.

I was just about to ask this yesterday! I'm having a ton of trouble with Blaziken (both forms), and I'd say close to half of my losses are due to him alone. Talonflame is a sure fire counter, but he doesn't really mesh with my team too well. Slowbro is also a great counter and with regenreator. He has the bulk to take a hit, t-wave whatever switches in, and switch out. Once again he doesn't really mesh too well with my team (I have 2 psychic types already).

My current check is using a mega Gyarados and just not mega evolving him. He resists both Blaziken's STABs in base form,has intimidate, and can OHKO back with waterfall. Need to look out for Stone edge though. Also if they don't lead with Blaziken and you mega evolve you are kinda boned.

Maybe Azumarill?

 

[Purgatory]

I was just about to ask this yesterday! I'm having a ton of trouble with Blaziken (both forms), and I'd say close to half of my losses are due to him alone. Talonflame is a sure fire counter, but he doesn't really mesh with my team too well. Slowbro is also a great counter and with regenreator. He has the bulk to take a hit, t-wave whatever switches in, and switch out. Once again he doesn't really mesh too well with my team (I have 2 psychic types already).

My current check is using a mega Gyarados and just not mega evolving him. He resists both Blaziken's STABs in base form,has intimidate, and can OHKO back with waterfall. Need to look out for Stone edge though. Also if they don't lead with Blaziken and you mega evolve you are kinda boned.

Maybe Azumarill?

I'm having more or less the same issue, having two water types on my team, Specs Greninja and physically defensive Rotom-W. The latter can actually somewhat deal with Blaziken, since it has protect, but it's far from a counter, more like a check.

 

[Di@8]

Flash Fire Chandelure pretty much laughs Blaziken out of town. It's reasonable against a lot of other common pokes on there as well.

 

[Purgatory]

Flash Fire Chandelure pretty much laughs Blaziken out of town. It's reasonable against a lot of other common pokes on there as well.

True, but most Blazikens have Stone Edge as coverage moves, unless they run both Protect and Swords Dance, and I've never seen that on the Battle Spot.

 

[Di@8]

True, but most Blazikens have Stone Edge as coverage moves, unless they run both Protect and Swords Dance, and I've never seen that on the Battle Spot.

Based on the Battle Spot stats from Pokémon GL, Stone Edge is only on 14% of them so it's still quite favorable. In my own experience playing on there (~800 battles), it's been a rather infrequent thing to see, and I've seen far more that run other moves like Superpower or Overheat as the 3rd attack slot, though Knock Off is fairly common too which bites. Based on those numbers I feel it's the best counter for it, but Slowbro is right up there too. Can't go wrong either way.

 

[Purgatory]

Based on the Battle Spot stats from Pokémon GL, Stone Edge is only on 14% of them so it's still quite favorable. In my own experience playing on there (~800 battles), it's been a rather infrequent thing to see, and I've seen far more that run other moves like Superpower or Overheat as the 3rd attack slot, though Knock Off is fairly common too which bites. Based on those numbers I feel it's the best counter for it, but Slowbro is right up there too. Can't go wrong either way.

Huh, well look at that. It looks like I need to breed a Chandelure and find a Dusk Stone then :)