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General Description: Pick a good-but-not-great OU pokemon, and design the perfect teammate for it, similar to the way Celebi & Heatran, or Blissey & Skarmory complement each other so well on competitive teams.
Justification:
This would allow us to explore in detail how synergy between two pokemon can be achieved, because currently there are only a few perfect teammates in OU. And depending on the base pokemon we choose to give a "perfect mate", we can open a new niche in the metagame based around the efficient pairing.
The niche we create will be inherently tied to an existing pokemon in the metagame, which should provide a natural limitation to prevent this concept from being broken or "too different" from standard OU.
Questions To Be Answered:
Is the base pokemon's usefulness (and usage) in the metagame increased as a result of having a "perfect mate"?
What strategies are more effective for the base pokemon, as a result of having a perfect teammate?
What are the most effective aspects of the new pokemon, for purposes of making a great teammate with the base pokemon?
Is the new pokemon viable in the metagame without the base pokemon as a teammate
Voted Jibaku. I did have a hard time deciding between him and Rising_Dusk, and both have some minor stuff I don't like about their movepools, so the decision honestly came down to the inspirations behind the moves.
Voted Jibaku. I did have a hard time deciding between him and Rising_Dusk, and both have some minor stuff I don't like about their movepools, so the decision honestly came down to the inspirations behind the moves.
Well, there were three moves upon which my decision hinged for both rounds of voting: Thunder Wave, Ice Beam, and Sucker Punch, all of which I wanted included. Sadly, each of these movepools contained only one of these moves. None of these movepools included Sucker Punch, so I threw that one out. DrkSlay included Ice Beam, while the other two included Thunder Wave. Ultimately I chose Ice Beam over Thunder Wave, in part because Togekiss has Thunder Wave already, and hates Zapdos.
Voting DrkSlay, due to his exclusion of Sucker Punch and Thunder Wave, and the inclusion of Baton Pass, Pursuit, the Ice Beam suite, and a number of others.
Although, I agree with Jibaku that Needle Arm and Twineedle are both poor choices for flavor moves when you actually think about it. Why make flavor concerning needles when you can have flavor about black magic?
Voted Rising_Dusk
I was highly impressed by both the thought put into his movepool and the overall design of it. It has everything it needs competitively and has plenty of good flavour moves. I especially liked the inclusion of Psycho Shift, it has that "screw you" factor that works with Voodoom.
As far as the general effectiveness of the movepools, I think they are all about equal, and flavour wise, the only one I dislike is Jibaku's.
I will be thrilled if either DarkSlay or Rising Dusk wins, but my vote goes to DrkSlay, whose movepool has pretty much EXACTLY what I would like to see out of CAP11
Voted Rising_Dusk. I liked the inclusion of Thunder Wave. I didn't like Jibaku's all that much, and I ended up deciding on Dusk's because of Thunder Wave over Force Palm.
Both Pokemon can spread paralysis and BP to each other. Yay!
Very disappointed that at the moment the two I support, DrkSlay and Rising_Dusk, are both trailing. I am vehemently opposed to Jibaku's movepool. 3 Heart Scale moves seems pointless. Wrap doesn't make sense competitively or flavor-wise. Neither does Copycat.
More importantly, several flavor moves I support, primarily Needle Arm, are absent. Some moves just plain baffle me: Smellingsalt?!?
In the first poll I voted for DrkSlay over Rising_Dusk, and I will continue to do so. I have decided I don't see Ice Beam as an issue because I see an attacking set containing Dark Pulse, Aura Sphere, Vacuum Wave, Psychic/HP Grass/Substitute. The use of Ice Beam means either losing priority (and being revenge-killed by an Infernape Mach Punch) or sacrificing any hope of beating Swampert, who Togekiss can't parahax or Machamp who Togekiss cannot switch into. As it is Ice Beam doesn't even help against specially defensive Zapdos as it does about 40% damage which Zapdos can roost off and might even light screen. Seriously Ice Beam provides coverage against only one pokemon Togekiss has issues with, and lacks coverage on much else in OU. Physically defensive Zapdos, Dragonite, and Gliscor are the only things Ice Beam would help with. I doubt it would be so highly used. 4MSS.
Since I don't see Ice Beam as a problem, I see no reason not to vote for DrkSlay again.
Voted for DrkSlay, for basically the same reasons as before: inclusion of Ice Beam and Close Combat, lack of Sucker Punch.
Of the remaining two, I like Jibaku's a bit better than Rising_Dusk's from a flavor perspective. R_D had Punishment, but Jibaku makes up for this with Revenge. Psycho Shift is awesome, but...Counter, Copycat (it's a voodoo doll!), and especially Perish Song are badass enough to tip the scales I think.
But still, both from a competitive and flavor perspective, my first choice is DrkSlay.
Very disappointed that at the moment the two I support, DrkSlay and Rising_Dusk, are both trailing. I am vehemently opposed to Jibaku's movepool. 3 Heart Scale moves seems pointless. Wrap doesn't make sense competitively or flavor-wise. Neither does Copycat.
More importantly, several flavor moves I support, primarily Needle Arm, are absent. Some moves just plain baffle me: Smellingsalt?!?
In the first poll I voted for DrkSlay over Rising_Dusk, and I will continue to do so. I have decided I don't see Ice Beam as an issue because I see an attacking set containing Dark Pulse, Aura Sphere, Vacuum Wave, Psychic/HP Grass/Substitute. The use of Ice Beam means either losing priority (and being revenge-killed by an Infernape Mach Punch) or sacrificing any hope of beating Swampert, who Togekiss can't parahax or Machamp who Togekiss cannot switch into. As it is Ice Beam doesn't even help against specially defensive Zapdos as it does about 40% damage which Zapdos can roost off and might even light screen. Seriously Ice Beam provides coverage against only one pokemon Togekiss has issues with, and lacks coverage on much else in OU. Physically defensive Zapdos, Dragonite, and Gliscor are the only things Ice Beam would help with. I doubt it would be so highly used. 4MSS.
Since I don't see Ice Beam as a problem, I see no reason not to vote for DrkSlay again.
yeah. I understand and agree with you. I'm really disapointed that both DrkSlay and Rising Dusk made it because I feel like they are pretty similar and may split votes between them. I want to see one of them win, not jibaku, but it's hard to support 2 at a higher rate than 1 :(
Voted Jibaku. The tipping factor for me was the omission of Ice Beam. Also, as capefeather mentioned, a lot of it also came down to flavor behind the moves, and I liked Jibaku's better.
I voted for myself! I think all three movepools have some intriguing qualities to them, and while this is indeed a competition of sorts, I'm glad that no matter who wins, Voodoom's going to have a neat movepool.
That being said, I spent so many hours at night making my movepool, it's hard not for me to vote for my own. I really enjoyed every aspect of trying to make Voodoom's movepool the best it could be, from both a flavor perspective and a competitive perspective. I believe I can speak for all three candidates (and for every other person who submitted a movepool) in saying that it takes a lot of time, care, and effort to make the best movepool, and every vote is appreciated. When I look at my movepool now, it's really easy for me to find my favorite flavor moves and competitive moves, and I love to relate it back to Voodoom's design and the imagination of the awesome artists who really provided the backbone of movepool making.
I'm just going to pick out a few moves that stand out to me, and what made making Voodoom's movepool so enjoyable to make. I'm all about competitive Pokemon, but an even mix of flavor and competitive zest really makes for the best movepool in my opinion.
Cotton Spore: This is far and beyond my favorite flavor move. When I first envisioned making a movepool for Voodoll and Voodoom, I imagined that most of its attacks would involve the opponent hitting it, and as a result, retaliation would occur. It's kind of cool and cute for Voodoom to literally "get the stuffing knocked out of him" while hampering the opponent. Cotton Spore just seems awesome.
Memento: This is a really nifty move that doubles as one of the best flavor moves for any Voodoom movepool to have (since Destiny Bond is a no-go). From a competitive stance, the attack and special attack drops the move causes could allow Togekiss to set up for late game sweeping. While I don't envision the move to be used on any standard set
Pursuit: Another pretty cool move, this time for pure competitive purposes. The ability to trap and kill Rotom-A is invaluable for Togekiss. While it's no TTar, Voodoom and its STAB Pursuit can still hurt. On the flipside, it doesn't affect Starmie or Gengar either (although I suppose they can't escape), since they can still both out-speed and OHKO you as opposed to Sucker Punch.
Mimic + Role Play: Two really neat flavor moves that really fit well with the voodoo doll theme. While I was going to put Copycat on my movepool, I realized that the term "copycat" technically implies that an individual copies the movement of another person immediately after they move, which is not what a voodoo doll does. The other two terms make more sense to me from a flavor perspective.
Of course, there is an obligatory Ice Beam / Blizzard (mostly Ice Beam) post on my part, seeing as though I am the only one in the poll that has these two moves. Let me point out a few quick facts about Ice Beam:
All current OU Grass types, with the exception of Breloom from the category (OHKO'd by Aura Sphere), cannot be OHKO'd by Ice Beam except for min/min Roserade after SR. Meanwhile, the weakest Leaf Storm / Seed Bomb will OHKO min/min Voodoom.
An Ice attack helps against Zapdos and Dragonite, two Pokemon Voodoom wants to defeat. Note that not even Sp. Defensive Zapdos can survive the 2HKO from Ice Beam after Stealth Rock.
Bulky Waters love switching into an Ice attack, which gives them an opportunity to fully counter Voodoom.
Aside from these two Pokemon, Ice Beam gives Voodoom very little extra coverage (still hits neutral on Heracross). Fighting + Dark STAB will often be the preferred attacks, with Ice Beam defeating
certain Togekiss counters.
Another point that a few people brought up was "Voodoom should be forced to use Hidden Power if it wants an Ice attack." I personally find it silly to restrict Ice Beam on Voodoom for this reason, as overall, the only Hidden Power that is even closely viable on Voodoom would be Ice. HP Fire is redundant with Fighting STAB, and even on neutral hits, Aura Sphere only hits for 5 less BP (not a huge difference). It would only matter for 4x weak Pokemon, like Scizor and Forretress. Don't forget that Voodoom loses one Speed point for using HP Fire. HP Electric is in a similar boat, hitting Gyarados only while still having the same power as Aura Sphere against Bulky Waters. Gyarados can be handled by Taunt + Dark Pulse or Togekiss anyway. That only leaves HP Flying, to hit Heracross, but being wide open to Zapdos and Dragonite does not sound appealing to me. That leaves HP Ice as the main choice. Ice Beam does HP Ice's job, plus beats all variants of Zapdos. Why limit Voodoom for such a reason when Ice Beam fulfills the requirement better than HP Ice? Basically, it boils down to this: If you have Ice Beam, what Hidden Power are you going to use?
I'm also opposed to Thunderwave. Remember, there's a good number of potential Voodoom counters that would hate to be paralyzed directly by its prey. Scarf Heracross, and especially Flame Orb Heracross, is arguably less threatening when its paralyzed to an entire team, and after hazards damage and constant switching, it's possible that Voodoom can always revenge kill it no matter what. Gyarados, Jirachi, Metagross, and a few others are in a similar boat. I'm not opposed to Togekiss using TWave (it draws in a different crowd, mostly), and I'd prefer there be synergy between these two in this regard as opposed to Voodoom being a one-man show.
In the end, I hope you pick the movepool you like the best, both from a flavor and competitive standpoint. Congrats to Jibaku and Rising_Dusk for getting here too, and may the best movepool win!
I voted Rising_Dusk, though I was equally close to clicking "Jibaku."
I dislike DrkSlay's movepool mainly for the inclusion of Psychic. This move alone allows you to destroy Heracross, a supposed COUNTER, to Voodoom. It will not OHKO, but if predicted correctly, you can see to it that Heracross gets no more than one switch in against Voodoom. That basically demotes 'Cross from the status of counter to check, which I do not like. Other than the largely unnecessary and detrimental ability to destroy Heracross, what value does Psychic add to the movepool? I also agree that Ice Beam is largely unnecessary on Voodoom, as forcing Zapdos to use Drill Peck is enough compensation already.
As for the choice between Jibaku and Rising_Dusk, it came down to the inclusion of Gravity and Psycho Shift. Neither move is really that incredible, but allows us to try out somewhat novel strategies that will not deter Voodoom from its primary role. The other differences between the movepools are largely inconsequential IMO. If Dusk were to get knocked out from this poll, my vote would immediately go to Jibaku.
Deck knight, it doesn't say in the first post, but, since DrkSlay and Jibaku are essentially dead even, if this poll doesn't end with a "substantial" majority, will there be a 3rd poll?
Deck knight, it doesn't say in the first post, but, since DrkSlay and Jibaku are essentially dead even, if this poll doesn't end with a "substantial" majority, will there be a 3rd poll?
