Aftermath wouldn't be so useless next to any of them. Having a ability that takes 25% out of your foe and being fast enough to hit him before he/she tries to kill you is something worth using. Beside...they're isn't any rule saying it suppose to have two equally useful abilities in the first place.
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CAP 5 CAP 5 - Part 9 (Ability Poll 2)
- Thread starter tennisace
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......I think we need to stop "breaking the mold" as far as I'm concern. Seriously, you all are scaring me with this "breaking the mold" junk. We broke the mold long time ago with an 130 speed non-part flying Rock type. Not everything about this project needs to freaking broken =/
I praying that people obsessed with abusing Tech have leveled heads and clear minds. I'm fearing everyone is going to stuff it every Tech abusable move that can think of and turn it into some creature that cannot live without Technician. It doesn't need to suffer that kind of inhumanity and cruelty.
I praying that people obsessed with abusing Tech have leveled heads and clear minds. I'm fearing everyone is going to stuff it every Tech abusable move that can think of and turn it into some creature that cannot live without Technician. It doesn't need to suffer that kind of inhumanity and cruelty.
Considering that we are putting competitive ability over flavor, we should be aiming for 2 viable abilities, as two is always better than one (except in things like tumors).
I, for one, would not mind if Rockmon got nothing more to abuse Technician with than a base 60 Rock move and a Hidden Power move of its choice.
Stuffing every Technician compatible move into its moveset will seem extremely fanboy (Giga Drain, Water Pulse, Dragonbreath?... puhlease...). The fact remains that Technician will aid its Special Sweeping capabilities so much more by giving it a reliable strong STAB attack and an excellent selection of supporting type attacks (any HP attack to compliment its rock moves).
Technician is so attractive because of the versatility it gives this pokemon.
But it'd be flavor either way, if we're going to put a useless/less useful ability next to levitate/tech, well, that's just flavor >_>
Quite agree with your first statement and I wouldn't mind it having the ability used only on it's stab move, though Hidden Power is iffy in my belief. The important of having a 60 BP Hidden Power would depends solely on others move it learns within it's movepool.
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HP Grass: Grass Knot slightly beats it in the long run. Teched HP Grass does beat it when it has 20, 40, and 80 BP but once GK hits 100 in power, HP lost it's usefulness
HP Fire: If it doesn't learn Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Heat Wave, or Lava Plume than yes Tech HP Fire has some use. If it learns Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Heat Wave then you wouldn't need HP Fire in the first place. If it only learns Lava Plume then it would be a question of Power vs Effect.
HP Ice: Same with HP Fire except replace FT and others with Ice Beam and Blizzard.
HP Electric: Same has HP Fire discussion.
HP Ground: Why not just use Earth Power? Same strenght has a Tech HP 60 Ground.
HP Bug: Tech Silver Wind is already here for you, BTW it OHKOs 252/0 Celebi
HP Flying: I just this could used on Heracross but that's about it.
HP Fighting: Focus Blast has shaky accuracy, I don't believe people will buy the use of magnetism to explain how it has Aura Sphere within it's movepool. Hits T-Tar for extreme damage ([B]80.2% - 95.05%[/B] in Sand to be exact) but can't think of anyone else that's screwed from eating Tech Fighting.
HP Dark: Useful against Ghost and Psychic types?
HP Ghost: Same thing =/
HP Water: Tech Water Pulse is just as powerful with the added confusion effect, but what in God's name are you going to use it on?
HP Steel: Erh....got nothing
HP Rock: Power Gem that shitty to not use it?
HP Poison: What are you, crazy?
HP Dragon: Kingdra...that's about it.
GT, I was going for more of the outlandish Hidden Powers, like Fighting. and.... I can't think of what else at the moment. It's just that Discharge, Lava Plume, and Silver Wind eat up the 3 spots in his level up movepool for competitive moves (removing Ancient Power). I do agree that with FT/IB/TB Technician Hidden Powers become nigh useless. I was just seeing a more unique movepool forming, than just Standard High SAtk utility attack moves.
Also Silver Wind and Grass Knot are pretty meh for putting on this. Giga Drain not so much. For the non-STAB/concept moves (aka most of the Special attacks besides Rock Move/Earth Power), flavor can be brought up, or else we get a Syclant like movepool.
I'm voting Technician, becuase having HP 90 for all types frees up the level up move pool (although I'm not opposed to Levitate at all, I'm just being economical).
I didn't want to sit here and dissect all 17 type of Hidden Power, but if you want I can go back and try it.
Silver Wind is a TM =/. Discharge is a competitive flavor move which can work on him. The only move that can go is probably Lava Plume as FT is more reible in terms of scoring OHKO/2HKO.
Hyra has a great point. Although HP Fire is inferior to Flamethrower, and HP Grass is inferior to Grass Knot, these moves might not (actually I'm thinking probably won't) find their way into its movepool. Technician will let it use moves of a nearly identical power in case it doesn't get these aforementioned moves. And tbh, flavour-wise they don't really fit, and that is going to be a recurring argument throughout the movepool discussions. But by then it will be too late to stop this guy from not having, for example, an effective Fire type move if Technician gets voted out, since we can't rechoose its ability based on what its movepool turns out to be.
That is if those move don't make it onto it's movepool and/or if Technician actually make it.
Flavor depends on your outlook. To me, I can see Rockmon use electromagnetism as a way to generate heat and electricity thus allowing it to use Electric and Fire moves. Is using electromagnetism to explain how it does it weird...no but that's just me. Flavor tends to get in the way of many competitive things which should be the main focus of the project.
The competitive aspect is the main focus of the project. However, like somebody said very well a couple of posts back, if we don't take flavour into account in addition to competitive value we're going to end up with Rockmon with Water Absorb 'because it helps it switch in'.(and don't you start on 'porous rocks')
I know that is a gross exaggeration, but the point I am trying to make is that we cannot focus solely on the competitive aspects of this new pokemon. In my humble opinion, making a collection of stats, moves, abilities and art instead of a pokemon is nearly as bad as focusing on flavour alone.
Oh... and on the electromagnetism thing... I agree with you on some Electric and Fire moves - they can be fitted into the flavour and the art. However I find it much harder to picture Rockmon using Ice Beam, Grass Knot, Silver Wind, or Water Pulse/Surf.
Not if I have anything to say about it. Lets just say I'm going to be a bit more of a hard-ass with reasoning for suggestions when movepool rolls around. Anything that has flavor as its main arguement, until we get to the full movepool and we NEED to put flavor moves in, will get thrown out automatically unless someone can demonstrate competitive reasoning in support of it.
That is sensible and I think is a good way of stopping pointless arguments in the discussion thread. I'm sure it'll be fine... but please be careful we don't do a Syclant again...
Mentioning flavor alongside a competitive argument is totally fine. But, when someone responds to your point about flavor, and ignores the competitive point, that's when the discussion gets sidetracked. That will not be tolerated.
If someone really wanted to argue for Water Absorb on this pokemon, I'm fine with that. But, you better make a good competitive case for it. And, if you wanted to use "porous rock" as your flavor explanation, that's fine with me. I doubt the community would support such an ability, but feel free to present it.
What I don't want is a bunch of silly arguments back and forth about "How much water can porous rock absorb?" and "The artwork doesn't look porous enough to support Water Absorb." Arguments like that are totally fucking stupid. The game of pokemon is full of all sorts of weird shit. Damn near anything you could possibly imagine can be given some form of flavor explanation to support it. Including a Water Absorbing Porous Rock Pokemon.
I don't mind people mentioning flavor in their posts. But, we are not going to argue about it. Flavor can't be proven or disproven in battle. As a competitive battling community and project, it's stupid to get into debates that cannot be resolved in theory or in practice. Even the most outlandish flavor arguments can be justified with a single statement -- "Focus Punch Wooper." gg
If you like obsessing over scientific explanations for moves and abilities on pocket monsters that magically pop out of little red and white balls and do battle when their gay trainer yells "Go Pikachu!" or whatever... please go somewhere else. We aren't going to obsess over it here.
If someone really wanted to argue for Water Absorb on this pokemon, I'm fine with that. But, you better make a good competitive case for it. And, if you wanted to use "porous rock" as your flavor explanation, that's fine with me. I doubt the community would support such an ability, but feel free to present it.
What I don't want is a bunch of silly arguments back and forth about "How much water can porous rock absorb?" and "The artwork doesn't look porous enough to support Water Absorb." Arguments like that are totally fucking stupid. The game of pokemon is full of all sorts of weird shit. Damn near anything you could possibly imagine can be given some form of flavor explanation to support it. Including a Water Absorbing Porous Rock Pokemon.
I don't mind people mentioning flavor in their posts. But, we are not going to argue about it. Flavor can't be proven or disproven in battle. As a competitive battling community and project, it's stupid to get into debates that cannot be resolved in theory or in practice. Even the most outlandish flavor arguments can be justified with a single statement -- "Focus Punch Wooper." gg
If you like obsessing over scientific explanations for moves and abilities on pocket monsters that magically pop out of little red and white balls and do battle when their gay trainer yells "Go Pikachu!" or whatever... please go somewhere else. We aren't going to obsess over it here.
I can see your point now and I do agree that the use of flavor does have it's good merits within this project. Suggestions based on flavor and suggestions based on competitive standpoints can go hand in hand but we need a balance somewhere. I'm personally believe the major offender when it comes to flavor issues is artwork. Remove the artwork and flavor becomes less of a issue as they're nothing you have to see if a move/ability/whatever doesn't work or not. I wondered if doing artwork after doing movepool, stat, and ability have any effect on quality of art itself.
*image Rockmon summoning a giant tidal wave, but then realize it can't swim and drowns* Oh god XD
There we go GT! HP Water is another move that would be useful (minimally though).
At this point, I would just like the ability to be chosen, since we either create new move with Levitate and add lots of weaker Special Attacks (Discharge, Lava Plume, etc.) or choose Technician and have it fool around with Ancient Power, Earth Power, and Hidden Power (that's a lot of powers).
At this point, I would just like the ability to be chosen, since we either create new move with Levitate and add lots of weaker Special Attacks (Discharge, Lava Plume, etc.) or choose Technician and have it fool around with Ancient Power, Earth Power, and Hidden Power (that's a lot of powers).
From a competitive standpoint, there was no viable reason to give Flygon Levitate. If then, the reason was not "flavor"-based, I would honestly like an explanation of what it was. Denying the fact that some components of Pokémon are partly decided by flavor will simply not work. DJD, I'm in full agreement with your post, though no one is "obsessing" as far as I can tell.
I'd like to make mention that for the same "stat abuse" reasons Ancient Power should not be included in a Technicianed move pool, nor should Silver Wind or Ominous wind.
If you want to use a useful Bug or Ghost move, you'll be obliged to use Hidden Power instead. Or of course the less power Signal Beam or Shadow Ball, if they're granted in it's move pool. (again a power vs. utility compromise)
You seem to forget the extended discussion of the hand rotational speed required for Fidgit to successfully provide a Tailwind for his teammates.
... Or the endless discussion of the length of horn required to justify Megahorn on Syclant.
... Or the amount of air present in the average Egyptian tomb, while attempting to justify Air Lock on Revenankh.
... Or the exact visual requirements to distinguish a "lizard" from a "dragon" while arguing whether Pyroak should get Dragon Dance.
I could keep going. My point is that we obsess over this crap WAY TOO MUCH. And we're not going to do it any more.
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