DP Cacturne

[Bologo]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/cacturne

I haven't been contributing much for a while, so I thought I might as well get back into it with a peer edit. I've been testing this set out for some time now, and it's been working like a charm, and I find it to be extremely fun to use, because it makes people extremely mad when I use it. Frankly, I'm pretty surprised that it's not in the analysis already. Just a note, this set is a lot different from the Focus Sash Swords Dance set, and the SubPunchSeed set, just in case anybody says that they look really similar.

Anyways, here we go:

[SET]
name: Evasion
move 1: Sucker Punch
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Swords Dance / Focus Punch
move 4: Seed Bomb / Focus Punch
item: BrightPowder / Liechi Berry
ability: Sand Veil
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Out of all of the sets that Cacturne can run, this one will without a doubt cause the most grief for your opponent, as it has a very good chance of ripping through their team, while simultaneously causing them to rip their hair out. After all, BrightPowder coupled with Sand Veil makes attacks that would normally have 100% accuracy have a mere 72% chance of hitting. This is good news for Cacturne as it cannot afford to take many hits in the first place. The set works perfectly fine without BrightPowder as well, and without BrightPowder, Liechi Berry works well as the item, but only if Swords Dance is not on the set.</p>

<p>Substitute is a necessity on this set, as it can protect Cacturne from crippling status such as paralysis while possibly securing a free turn to Swords Dance or attack due to the huge Evasion from Brightpowder and/or Sand Veil. Cacturne's immunity to Psychic is also a big help here as it allows it to switch in on things like Azelf, and put up a Substitute while they switch, as they will have a huge risk of death if they stay in. Swords Dance allows Cacturne to gear itself up for a sweep, and is rather easy to set up with all of the Evasion. Focus Punch can be taken from the final slot and easily fit over Swords Dance to have all 3 attacks on the set and some amazing coverage. Once again this will work to its fullest only if Liechi Berry is the item, otherwise, Swords Dance is needed so that Cacturne can still have a way to boost its Attack, preventing him from getting stalled out. Sucker Punch is Cacturne's main attack as it compensates for Cacturne's low base Speed, and after a Swords Dance or Liechi Berry boost, it can OHKO several revenge-killers that could easily OHKO Cacturne otherwise.</p>

<p>The final slot is quite variable, and the choice depends on the type of player that Cacturne's user is, and the team it is on. Seed Bomb is the best option here, as it can OHKO several strong walls after a Swords Dance, such as Hippowdon, Suicune, Swampert, and Donphan without the risk that Sucker Punch carries. Keep in mind that even though Grass/Dark has double STAB for Cacturne, it does not have the best coverage out there and is walled by several opposing types. However, Focus Punch is a great option for those who have telepathic minds. Dark/Fighting is a great attacking combination, only resisted by Heracross and Toxicroak. The way that the Sucker Punch/Focus Punch combo works, is that the opponent is damned if they do, and damned if they don't, especially after a Swords Dance. If they attack, they're in trouble, if they don't, they're in even more trouble. Also note that Focus Punch goes extremely well with Substitute, as it can take Focus Punch's need for prediction away if Cacturne is behind a Substitute. If you enjoy messing with your opponent's mind, then Focus Punch is for your Cacturne. Just be careful that you do not let your opponent outmaneuver you, because if it gets attacked during Focus Punch, or status inflicted during Sucker Punch, it's in a lot of trouble.</p>

<p>The EVs are quite simple, but they are quite good at getting the job done. Max Attack with an Adamant nature is a given, as Cacturne wants to be able to shatter skulls as efficiently as possible. Max Speed allows Cacturne to out-speed minimum Speed base 85s such as Suicune and Cresselia. This allows it to OHKO Suicune with Seed Bomb (if it carries it) after a Swords Dance. It also lets it Substitute before Cresselia can status it, forcing Cresselia to attack you so that Cacturne can severely dent her with Sucker Punch. The remaining 4 EVs are put into Defense instead of HP so that Cacturne can create 4 Substitutes as opposed to 3 thanks to having odd HP.</p>

Alrighty, well fix, nitpick, etc, etc. I proofread as much as I could, but I'm sure I still missed some things, or that some things could be improved in here, so help me out here guys and gals!

 

[Havak]

<p>Out of all of the sets that Cacturne can run, this one will without a doubt cause the most grief for your opponent, as it has a very good chance of ripping through their team, while simultaneously causing them to rip their hair out. After all, BrightPowder coupled with Sand Veil makes attacks that would normally have 100% accuracy have a mere 72% chance of hitting. This is good news for Cacturne as he cannot afford to take many hits in the first place.</p>

<p>Substitute is a necessity on this set, as it can protect Cacturne from crippling status such as paralysis while possibly securing a free turn to Swords Dance due to the huge Evasion from Brightpowder and Sand Veil. Swords Dance allows Cacturne to gear itself up for a sweep, and is rather easy to set up with all of the Evasion. Sucker Punch is Cacturne's main attack as it compensates for Cacturne's low base Speed, and after a Swords Dance, it can OHKO several revenge-killers that could easily OHKO Cacturne otherwise.</p>

<p>The final slot is quite variable, and the choice depends on the type of player that Cacturne's user is, and the team he is on. Seed Bomb is the best option here, as it can OHKO several strong walls after a Swords Dance, such as Hippowdon, Suicune, Swampert, and Donphan without the risk that Sucker Punch carries. Keep in mind that even though Grass/Dark has double STAB for Cacturne, it does not have the best coverage out there and is walled by several opposing types. However, Focus Punch is a great option for those who have telepathic minds. Dark/Fighting is a great attacking combination, only resisted by Heracross and Toxicroak. The way that the Sucker Punch/Focus Punch combo works, is that the opponent is damned if they do, and damned if they don't, especially after a Swords Dance. If they attack, they're in trouble, if they don't, they're in even more trouble. Also note that Focus Punch goes extremely well with Substitute, as it can take Focus Punch's need for prediction away if Cacturne is behind a Substitute. If you enjoy messing with your opponent's mind, then Focus Punch is for your Cacturne. Just be careful that you do not let your opponent outmaneuver you, because if it gets attacked during Focus Punch, or status inflicted during Sucker Punch, it's in a lot of trouble. Finally, for those out there who enjoy having lots of type coverage, but prefer to play it safe, Brick Break is the move of choice for the final slot.</p>

<p>The EVs are quite simple, but they are quite good at getting the job done. Max Attack with an Adamant nature is a given, as Cacturne wants to be able to shatter skulls as efficiently as possible. Max Speed allows Cacturne to outspeed 0 EV base 85s such as Suicune and Cresselia. This allows it to OHKO Suicune with Seed Bomb (if it carries it) after a Swords Dance. It also lets it Substitute before Cresselia can status it, forcing Cresselia to attack you so that Cacturne can severely dent her with Sucker Punch. The remaining 4 EVs are put into Defense instead of HP so that Cacturne can Substitute down to 1 HP if it has to with odd HP, instead of being forced to stop at 25% due to even HP. An alternate EV spread is 200 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe with an Adamant nature. This allows Cacturne to out-speed a minimum Speed Tyranitar, while being a hell of a lot bulkier due to 200 HP EVs giving his Substitutes some much needed meat, and it's there if you don't feel that Cacturne needs to out-speed Suicune or Cresselia.</p>

BrightPowder > Brightpowder

 

[FiveKRunner]

This is quite an interesting set that I feel could have some success, especially if you predict an incoming wall that will go for status or lacks a Substitute-breaking move. I like how you presented the scenario with Sucker Punch/Focus Punch and the decision it forces the opponent to make. Where I could see this set failing though is if someone manages to stall (especially a Pokemon like Zapdos with Pressure) you out of Sucker Punch's 8 PP. There obviously isn't anything you can do about it but I thought I'd throw it out there.

In terms of the content, I don't think that the portion towards the end with the alternative EV spread is worth mentioning. Those 200 HP EVs grant you 50 Hit Points, a mere 12 HP more per sub. Those 12 points aren't likely to help the Sub stand, especially given Cacturne's defenses. Besides, it really isn't meant to take hits, just prevent status and ease prediction.

I don't see any problems with the actual writing other than some things that I would word differently but really work just fine how you wrote them.

 

[Invective]

[SET]
name: Brightpowder
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Seed Bomb / Focus Punch / Brick Break
item: Brightpowder
ability: Sand Veil
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Out of all of the sets that Cacturne can run, this one will without a doubt cause the most grief for your opponent, as it has a very good chance of ripping through their team, while simultaneously causing them to rip their hair out. After all, Brightpowder coupled with Sand Veil makes attacks that would normally have 100% accuracy have a mere 72% chance of hitting. This is good news for Cacturne as he cannot afford to take many hits in the first place.</p>

<p>Substitute is a necessity on this set, as it can protect Cacturne from crippling status such as paralysis while possibly securing a free turn to Swords Dance due to the huge Evasion from Brightpowder and Sand Veil. Swords Dance allows Cacturne to gear itself up for a sweep, and is rather easy to set up with all of the Evasion. Sucker Punch is Cacturne's main attack as it compensates for Cacturne's low base Speed, and after a Swords Dance, it can OHKO several revenge-killers that could easily OHKO Cacturne otherwise.</p>

<p>The final slot is quite variable, and the choice depends on the type of player that Cacturne's user is, and the team he is on. Seed Bomb is the best option here, as it can OHKO several strong walls after a Swords Dance, such as Hippowdon, Suicune, Swampert, and Donphan without the risk that Sucker Punch carries. Keep in mind that even though Grass/Dark has double STAB for Cacturne, it does not have the best coverage out there and is walled by several opposing types. However, Focus Punch is a great option for those who have telepathic minds. Dark/Fighting is a great attacking combination, only resisted by Heracross and Toxicroak. The way that the Sucker Punch/Focus Punch combo works, is that the opponent is damned if they do, and damned if they don't, especially after a Swords Dance. If they attack, they're in trouble, if they don't, they're in even more trouble. Also note that Focus Punch goes extremely well with Substitute, as it can take Focus Punch's need for prediction away if Cacturne is behind a Substitute. If you enjoy messing with your opponent's mind, then Focus Punch is for your Cacturne. Just be careful that you do not let your opponent outmaneuver you, because if it gets attacked during Focus Punch, or statused during Sucker Punch, it's in a lot of trouble. Finally, for those out there who enjoy having lots of type coverage, but prefer to play it safe, Brick Break is the move of choice for the final slot.</p>

<p>The EVs are quite simple, but they are quite good at getting the job done. Max Attack with an Adamant nature is a given, as Cacturne wants to be able to shatter skulls as efficiently as possible. Max Speed allows Cacturne to outspeed 0 EV base 85s such as Suicune and Cresselia. This allows it to OHKO Suicune with Seed Bomb (if it carries it) after a Swords Dance. It also lets it to (added to) Substitute before Cresselia can status it, forcing Cresselia to attack you so that Cacturne can severely dent her with Sucker Punch. The remaining 4 EVs are put into Defense instead of HP so that Cacturne can Substitute down to 1 HP if it has to with odd HP, instead of being forced to stop at 25% due to even HP. An alternate EV spread is 200 HP / 252 Atk / 52 Spe with an Adamant nature. This allows Cacturne to outspeed a minimum Speed Tyranitar, while being a hell of a lot bulkier due to 200 HP EVs giving his Substitutes some much needed meat, and it's there if you don't feel that Cacturne needs to outspeed Suicune or Cresselia.</p>

Alrighty, well fix, nitpick, etc, etc. I proofread as much as I could, but I'm sure I still missed some things, or that some things could be improved in here, so help me out here guys and gals!

just one thing, you referred to Cacturne as a "him" in the beginning of the analysis, but then changed to calling Cacturne an "it". you should change one of them to keep more consistent.

 

[Caelum]

<p>The EVs are quite simple, but they are quite good at getting the job done. Max Attack with an Adamant nature is a given, as Cacturne wants to be able to shatter skulls as efficiently as possible. Max Speed allows Cacturne to outspeed minimum speed base 85s such as Suicune and Cresselia. This allows it to OHKO Suicune with Seed Bomb (if it carries it) after a Swords Dance. It also lets it Substitute before Cresselia can status it, forcing Cresselia to attack you so that Cacturne can severely dent her with Sucker Punch. The remaining 4 EVs are put into Defense instead of HP so that Cacturne can create 4 Substitutes as opposed to 3.</p>

Made some slight changes since I believe they sound better, stylistically speaking. Also, why would anyone use a "bulky Cacturne"? I'd have to see some damage calculations to justify that spread because otherwise it seems max/max is the way to go on Cacturne 100% of the time.

I'll actually comment on the set after I use it.

 

[Bologo]

I've never really bothered to use the bulky spread much, I prefer to use max/max, since it's much better. I'm going to just take off the alternate EV spread, I only put it there in case the users of the set would like to at least take under 25% from stuff that Cacturne resists, and I saw a suggestion for a bulkier spread in the Focus Sash set, which is what made me put it there, but out-speeding stuff like Suicune, Cresselia, Breloom (helps you avoid Spore), and some Togekiss is a lot more helpful.

Yeah, the last part of the last paragraph has been removed.

 

[twash]

Nice set, I've tried it and it works (most of the time, sometimes it just does nothing, effectively meaning i'm 5-6 down).

I think Cacturne's Psychic immunity should be mentioned somewhere, as it lets him come in on Azelf (and others) Psychics, and can setup a Substitute as they switch.

 

[Mekkah]

I used BrightPowder Cacturne ages ago on a Sand Veil theme team, which was not even intended to be succesfull, but it turned out it actually was. Cacturne suffers from its usual durability problems, but it does spread a lot of fun around.

I used Substitute/Focus Punch/Seed Bomb/Sucker Punch though. I believe SubPunch + Sucker Punch to be its core, similiar to the Toxicroak set I posted a Stark thread about earlier. I can see Swords Dance coming handy in stallish situations or prediction points though.

 

[Bologo]

Good idea Twash_Man, I've included that in the analysis, thanks.

Mekkah, that looks like a good set, but the only problem is that it seems to have a lot of problems with walls and such due to the lack of Swords Dance. I'd most likely just use the SubPunchSeed set with BrightPowder over Leftovers if it doesn't have Swords Dance, since Leech Seed can make Sucker Punch/Focus Punch even more deadly, due to the extra mind games.

 

[matty]

I used BrightPowder Cacturne ages ago on a Sand Veil theme team, which was not even intended to be succesfull, but it turned out it actually was. Cacturne suffers from its usual durability problems, but it does spread a lot of fun around.

I used Substitute/Focus Punch/Seed Bomb/Sucker Punch though. I believe SubPunch + Sucker Punch to be its core, similiar to the Toxicroak set I posted a Stark thread about earlier. I can see Swords Dance coming handy in stallish situations or prediction points though.

I think Mekkah brings up a good point is that SD isn't totally necessary on the set (but is very helpful in some situations). I also don't understand why Brick Break would be an option. I almost never would use Brick Break personally.

 

[darkie]

I used this set a little, and I found Liechi Berry to be a decent item over BrightPowder. With Substitute and Sand Veil your opponent still has a good chance to miss, but you end up hitting harder eventually.

I suppose Salac could work, but with a priority move, it seems kind of redundant.

If you decide to use this, I would rename the set "Evasion", or something to that effect.

 

[Bologo]

Alright, I removed Brick Break as an option. It was only there in case someone wanted the coverage of Dark/Fighting without the risk of Focus Punch, but yeah.

I'm still really iffy on Swords Dance not being necessary on this set, since I've found it horrendously easy to set up 1, or even 2 Swords Dances due to the insane amount of evasion.

I guess one compromise that I could do is to take darkie's suggestion, and to merge it with Mekkah and matty's suggestion. If Swords Dance is on the set, BrightPowder is the item of choice, but if Swords Dance is not on the set, Liechi Berry is the item of choice. After all, an Attack boost of any kind is quite helpful to Cacturne.

 

[twash]

Maybe just note that Focus Punch could be used over either Swords Dance or Seed Bomb?

 

[User 12783]

Switch move 3, and 4 around. Move 4 should be 3, and 3 should be 4, as 3 has more options than Move 4. The move with the most options should be on the bottom, I heard Great Sage say once.

 

[twash]

move 3: Seed Bomb / Focus Punch
move 4: Swords Dance / Focus Punch / Seed Bomb

I would remove Seed Bomb from move 4 and just have Swords Dance / Focus Punch. This still creates all three possibilities; Seed Bomb/Swords Dance, Focus Punch/Swords Dance and Seed Bomb/Focus Punch, otherwise it looks.."cluttered".

 

[Bologo]

move 3: Seed Bomb / Focus Punch
move 4: Swords Dance / Focus Punch / Seed Bomb

I would remove Seed Bomb from move 4 and just have Swords Dance / Focus Punch. This still creates all three possibilities; Seed Bomb/Swords Dance, Focus Punch/Swords Dance and Seed Bomb/Focus Punch, otherwise it looks.."cluttered".

I already changed that several posts ago. The final slot having the two attacks in them is better, because it helps with the paragraph where I talk about them, since it doesn't really make much sense to be talking about the 4th slot (Swords Dance/Focus Punch from your suggestion) before going into my paragraph about the attacks (3rd slot). I prefer to talk in order of the slots when I write up an analysis, because I feel it flows a little better.

 

[twash]

Well, when I posted that it was like it, otherwise how could I have noticed? :P

But yeah, looks beastly now (:

 

[EvilMario]

I strongly agree with Cacturne requiring Sword Dance on this set (and most sets..). The great threat posed by Substitute/Sand Viel is that Cacturne will be able to get in at least one, if not two Sword Dances for nearly nothing.

Considering with will be used in OU, thanks to Tyranitar and Hippo, Sword Dance is required to defeat Skarmory (if you're carrying Focus Punch), Metagross, Tangrowth, and a host of other Pokemon. Without Sword Dance there are more than a handfull of Pokemon that don't care about his improved coverage offered by three attacks.

 

[Bologo]

Yeah, since there doesn't seem to be anymore comments coming in, I'm throwing this onto the SCMS.