(First RMT) Sun team

[minybob7]

Introduction:
Since gen 3, my favorite pokemon always was Groudon. I just found him awesome in every means possible. I was young and stupid. I learned how to play this gen and saw that groudon had some major flaws but I continued to use him by fandom. In gen 5, Groudon got some new tools to play with namely Reshiram. So I just tried to see the new uber metagame and give groudon some respect for his power and not just his manliness.

Team At A Glance:

Team in detail:
(Bold is the changes)

The lead

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball

I use a specially defensive forretress as my lead. The move and EV are pretty basic. I putted max bulkyness on the special side coupled with his awesome defense to make me able to get hit by ice and dragon moves thrown everywhere in uber. Basically put the t. spikes (arceus can set rocks now)up first then switch and come back later to finish the job.

Sun abuser

Ho-Oh @ Life Orb
Trait: Regeneration
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Nitro Charge
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Recover

I am running a nitro charge set with ho-oh. Max speed and positive nature to win speed tie with opposing 90.Max attack for damage and my movepool is basic once again. Nitro to hurt switch-ins and get a nice speed boost, Recover and regeneration to heal, BB and sacred fire for STAB.

Weather-mon

Groudon @ Life Orb
Trait: Drought
EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 136 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Punch

Here is my weather changer. My groudon is the common RP set. He setup once then he kills nearly anything in 2-hits or less. My goal is 500 speed after RP, max attack and some bulk. I don’t like stone edge that much because it already failed me more than once before. Dragon+fire for coverage and Earthquake for STAB and hits the only one who resist the previous combo (heatran).

Main revenge killer

Zekuromu @ Choice Scarf
Trait: TeraVoltage
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Lightning Strike
- Cross Thunder
- Outrage

I Currently changed my Darkrai for Palkia and then to Zekrom to counter kyogres. It works well but only to revenge kills along woth some dragons weaker on the physical side(lati@s). I use a special attacker set with scarf to revenge all that is slower.Cross Thunder and Dragon Claw are there for consistency while Outrage and Lightning Strike are for power. No volt change because it is stopped by groudon who is a common swithcin to this set and I prefer to switch myself.

Beast of Choice

Reshiramu @ Choice Specs
Trait: Turbo Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Cross Flame
- Blue Flame
- Dragon Pulse

Reshiram is a beast under the sun. 130 Bp fire move excluding stab, under sun, fired from a 150 base stat poke with specs is deadly to anyone who doesn’t resist it and without good sp def. Draco meteor and blue flame grants perfect coverage thanks to his ability. Cross flame and Dragon Pulse are there for when I need consistency.

Main Kyogre Check

Arceus-Grass @ Meadow Plate
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SAtk / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Stealth Rock

Arceus help me sponge Kyogre's attack while threatening it (and opposing groudon) with grass knot. Ice beam is there to hit the dragons of the tier. Stealth rock is filler while recover is a way of recovering(duh). EV are max Hp to survive more, enough speed to outspeed base 110 and the rest in Sp. Attack

 

[j99ubers]

Kyogre kind of rips this team apart, you should maybe consider running Scarf Palkia instead of Scarf Darkrai, in order to give you some kind of check. You also dont have much of a way to deal with SD Normal Arceus. The only thing i can recommend is maybe running Toxic Spikes ahead of Spikes in order to help you deal with it slightly.

 

[minybob7]

Right now i changed darkrai for palkia as you said but i might hop in DW and get a scarved ditto that will help me get rid of most offensive Kyogre and a lot of setup mons. I already had one swept a whole team after copying a +3 rayquazaa with outrage.

 

[IronGross]

Wobbuffet needs Encore, otherwise it's a set-up bait.

Also, I don't see why run Shadow Ball on Rershiran when a neutral Draco Meteor outdamages a SE Shadow Ball; switch to Draco Meteor/Blue Flame/Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower.

 

[calze6]

Your team already is DW. It has custap wobbuffet. Yeah, it needs encore or else it is just setup bait. Remove safeguard. Also, it needs a calm nature with a 28HP/228Def/252SDef EV spread. Shadow ball on reshi doesn't do anything, blue flame is more powerful anyway. Go with dragon pulse instead for a reliable stab move. Run fire blast over flamethrower on palkia as it needs the power to take down certain steel types. Give forry payback over gyro ball to take down many dark weak pokes that will all be faster. It does more damage.

Note that your team doesn't have a spinblocker and your opponent can simply use rapid spin and all your entry hazards are gone. I recommend removing wobbuffet for something like giratina-o, or arceus-ghost to block spin unless you want to play in dream world in which you can use the lovely (hated) shandera.

Consider making groudon a support set so that forry can run toxic spikes. Also, in DW, ho-oh will want regeneration and recover.

 

[minybob7]

I didn't know I was in DW because of wobbuffet. Thanks for pointing.
I will change my Reshiram, Wobbuffet and Ho-Oh accordingly(Dragon Pulse/Encore/regeneration). But, I'm not sure about the other changes.
I like my groudon how it is and I'm not sure about the spinblocker but I may try. Also, should I change Palkia to Ditto?

 

[IronGross]

Wobbuffet doesn't need 252HP, maxing out both defenses would be more beneficial.

 

[calze6]

Don't change palkia to ditto. Palkia is important as a reliable kyogre check.

 

[minybob7]

It's ok I kept Palkia ad it works well but I'm now swept by most CMmons.
Kyogre now is a hax battle for thunder not paralyzing, Lati@s must be handled by critting and worse, Mewtwo with taunt completely laughs at Wobbuffet. Manaphy is not a problem since Groudon can come on rest and screw it out completely. Any suggestions on how to handle those threats would be greatly appreciated.

 

[j99ubers]

To handle the Latis don't run Spacial Rend on Scarf Palkia, as Outrage is a far better move allowing you to quickly elimiate the Latis and even hit Blissey and Chansey for decent damage. To handle most CMers better a more bulky spread can be used on Ho-Oh, I tend to run this:

248HP/252Atk/8Spe
Adamant Nature
-Sacred Fire
-Brave Bird
-Substitute
-Recover

One of the few CMers this cant handle is CM Kyogre, and without Zekrom or one of the Latis it is incredibly hard to deal with. However these are quite rare and will often be paralysed or take a critical hit from Thunder. Not much else I can offer, but change Cross Flame to Flamethrower on Reshiram, Cross Flame has 8 PP so doesnt do much as a back up option and Flamethrower also gives you a nice chance of a burn.

 

[IcyMan28]

I'm pretty sure I fought this team, I remember exactly what happened.

As it stands, you have issues with Kyogre, Lati@s (dragons in general actually), SDArceus, and even PsychoKiller Mewtwo (Palkia's Draco Meteor doesn't even come close to OHKO after Mewtwo has a CM under its belt).

To fix this, I recommend you switch Palkia to ScarfZekrom. It has little difficulty revenging all forms of Kyogre and CM Arceus, as well as devastating the Lati twins on their weaker defense and KOing Mewtwo.

With that in mind, you need a dedicated Kyogre check, as it will otherwise ravage your team. I recommend Latias or Grass Arceus over Wobbuffet, as they do more for this team, IMO. Both Ho-Oh and Groudon are bulky enough to find opportunities to set up, so you can afford to lose Wobb.

Latias works as a great Kyogre check with Soul Dew and a simple set of Dragon Pulse / Recover / CM / Filler, the last slot being either Thunder, GK, or HP Fire. She checks other dragons relatively well too, but can't directly switch in.

Grass Arceus has the bulk to take on Kyogre and Dragon-types, as well as access to Recover. Recover / Ice Beam / Grass Knot / Filler works well here, Stealth Rock possibly getting the nod for the last slot so Forry isn't doing so much at once. Thunder Wave is also an option.

 

[Server_Crash]

While I do agree with Icyman that Scarf Zek would really help your team, I think that you should keep Palkia and replace Wobbuffet. Running two scarfers is possible, but you need to know what you're doing at all times with them. Instead, I would recommend giving Palkia a lustrous orb, and going mixed. This lets you bluff choice while still giving you a reliable Kyogre check that isn't hit super-effectively by ice beam (read: Latias and Grass Arceus). A moveset of Spacial Rend / Outrage/ Thunder/ Fire Blast works quite well as it lets you beat Kyogre easily while still functioning in the sun. Draco Meteor wastes Palkia's potential when it still has a powerful dragon attack with no drawbacks.

just my two cents, good luck with your team.

 

[IronGross]

Don't replace Palkia, every Sun-based team needs a reliable Kyogre check; also, Outrage on Scarf Palkia can greatly help you against Lati@s, so use it over Draco Meteor or Spacial Rend and switch to a Hasty nature (not Naive!).

 

[minybob7]

Actually, I've run some calcs and here is what i found.
Against Timid 252 Sp.A specs ogre under rain:

Specially based palkia:
-is 2hko'ed after rocks by Ice beam(can't ko back except for hax).
-is 2hko'ed by thunder without rocks (can't ko back except for hax).
-is 2hko'ed by Water spout and rocks(can lower the BP by attacking first).
-is 4hko'ed by surf (not a problem).

Grass-Arceus with 252 HP,80 Sp.A and 176 Spd:
-is 2hko'ed by Ice Beam(4% chances to ohko with grass knot without rocks but still not 100% with them).
-isn't 4hko'ed by thunder without rocks(not a problem).
-is 2hko'ed by water spout (but following the switch I attack first and lower WS BP down to almost nothing).
-surf can 2hko with high damage roll and rocks up on my side(pretty hard to do so).

Then there is also Zekrom who is able to revenge if something goes wrong.

 

[calze6]

What? Most times the opponent will be spamming water spout since it is slow, it may well have taken prior damage. Even when 2HKOing palkia, most times it will use surf. Besides, kyogre is KOed after some entry hazards as well.

 

[minybob7]

I have updated my team and I want to know a little bit more about my Arceus Ev. Also, I am testing the sub Ho-Oh now and I will see how it works.