AAA National Dex Almost Any Ability

:sv/kingambit: :ss/victini:
Kingambit has been banned from NDAAA! Victini remains unbanned!
Quickban...LordBox Giyu Codename C.A.T Atha
KingambitBanBanDNBBan
VictiniDNBDNBDNBDNB

:kingambit: Kingambit has proven to be one of the most controversial Pokemon in NDAAA thanks to its access to a STAB Knock Off, a devastatingly limiting Pursuit, and fantastic stats across the board. With Adaptability, Tough Claws, or any other Attack-boosting ability, Kingambit becomes a massive pain to deal with, and any team lacking a Great Tusk is forced to accept that it will be killing half the mons on their team. To make matters worse, Kingambit started exploring more defensive abilities such as Well-Baked Body, Bulletproof, and Earth Eater, removing soft checks like Heatran, Gholdengo, and mono-Ground Great Tusk with ease. For its unhealthy impact on the metagame as a whole, Kingambit has been banned.

:victini: Though Victini is undeniably very good, the metagame has not been kind to its traits. Pokemon like Primordial Sea Zapdos, Regenerator Great Tusk, and a wide variety of Well-Baked Body users including but not limited to Ferrothorn and Gholdengo have resulted in several splashable checks on many good teams. Additionally, offense can handle it with Pokemon like Primordial Sea Barraskewda or simply pivoting around its choice lock. While Victini is certainly a very strong Pokemon, it has not been considered overbearing yet, and as such has evaded a ban.
 

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
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:sv/walking-wake:
Walking Wake has been unbanned from NDAAA!
Unban...​
Giyu
Atha
Walking Wake​
Unban​
Unban​
Keep Banned​
Unban​

Reasoning:
Walking Wake was initially kept banned from NDAAA due to its ban from NDOU and its strong showing and ban from CG AAA. However, given review we have decided to free Walking Wake from NDAAA given the popular presence of potential defensive checks like Tapu Fini, WBB Ferrothorn, Teleport Chansey/Blissey, RegenVest Goodra-Hisui and Meloetta that we have judged would make Walking Wake a reasonable threat to manage. In the meantime we will be keeping a close eye on Walking Wake to see how it performs and the effects on the meta.​
 

Don Vascus

Certified Wednesday Poster
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
So i heard hadron is still legal

Heliolisk @ Choice Specs
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rising Voltage
- Hyper Voice
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast / Surf

Now this looks fun :)

I always was a fan of Staaab lisk bc it clicked buttons so hard on everything; the few things that could eat a boomburst and a tbolt were easy pivot bait. Now that hadron is free, i can relive those moments :), except i can do 50 to blissey

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Heliolisk Rising Voltage (140 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in Electric Terrain: 306-361 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO
:)))

And a lot to spdef chomp

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Heliolisk Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 208-246 (49.5 - 58.5%) -- 67.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And goodrah? Just focus miss it twice :))

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Heliolisk Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

And if theres any other bully its fine bc this mon learns like every single coverage move except for ice beam
 
Hi ! Here are some teams and thoughts.

Some teams

:barraskewda: :meloetta: :mew: :tapu fini: :zarude: :gengar:
:corviknight: :meloetta: :mew: :tapu fini: :tapu koko: :tapu lele:
Fini + Melo Regen core aims to reliably knock the opposing special wall (Chansey or AV) and covers a lot of threats. Fini covers Melo's Dark weakness and is just annoying to switch into generally. It's also amazing into Regen Tusk which is obviously valuable. The Barraskewda version is a bit weak to Victini but double priority makes it very solid. The Koko version has a WBB Corv for extra safety (can still struggle vs a Victini that can switch moves). No Electric immunity is definitely a weakness on both version (Helmet on Fini helps vs Volt Turn). Koko is a problem, cause it bullies Mew, although Fini can help. The Gengar is monowalled by Bulletproof so probably Lele is a bit more reliable.

:barraskewda: :blissey: :corviknight: :great tusk: :iron moth: :mew:
Scarf Mew + Tusk is an insane Regen core, then Blissey is kind of forced to not be weak on the special side. Intim Corv rounds out the core well, with Iron Moth providing very nice defensive utility in checking Koko. Tspikes on Moth because Poison types aren't that common (the cost/reward of having Tspikes is too good to pass). Barraskewda is the main breaker here, don't need more with Mew and Tusk's pressure. Tusk + Barraskewda is good vs most Victinis. Team relies a lot on Mew's Trick to beat setup.

:azelf: :cobalion: :corviknight: :goodra-hisui: :great tusk: :zapdos:
More of a volt turn UTesque type of team with Azelf Cobalion Zapdos aiming to overwhelm any special wall, Cobalion being a very reliable rocker. Fluffy Corv + Regen Tusk + Primsea Zapdos is quite solid defensively, although weak to Koko. Taunt on Tusk is important to look for spins against an EE Ghold (you knock it on the switch and Taunt Recover, it's not safe the next time). Goodra-h then covers basically everything (Dtail provides crucial anti-cheese) and helps vs Pixi Koko.

:garchomp: :gholdengo: :manaphy: :mawile-mega: :mew: :tapu koko:
Classic screens HO. The team is probably not optimal but I wasn't able to make it better. Mawile behind screens is quite unstoppable while Ghold + Mana + Koko pressures on the special side. Chomp is looking to set up rocks.

And thoughts

I think the most reliable way of winning games rn is looking to remove items on blobs/Regenvesters and go in with a special breaker (the main ones being :tapu lele: :gengar: :zoroark-hisui: :gholdengo: :walking wake: but many other options are available). Knock/Trick distribution is very generous making it hard to keep your items on special walls against a well built team. On the physical side the core are significantly more diverse with multiple different birds (:corviknight: :gliscor: :zapdos: :mandibuzz:) that can run Fluffy or Intimidate or immunity abilities and Regen :great tusk: checking everything. If Regen :great tusk: keeps centralizing the meta, then Regen :mew: and :tapu fini: are bond to find a very solid spot, both providing sky high utility and taking advantage of Tusk.
That said, there are 2 physical breakers that are amazingly good rn, :barraskewda: and :tapu koko:. :barraskewda: can threaten all commonly used Water immunities with a ohko, and wears down any team as soon as rocks are up. A Barraskewda team that looks to break on the physical side needs to somehow pressure Regen :tapu fini: and knock off Helmets and Boots on the opposing team ; but most importantly it wants a rock solid hazards game. :tapu koko: is even more reliable than Barraskewda ; Band and Flame Orb are the best sets imo. Flame Orb Koko is incredibly difficult to account for in the builder, destroying Tusk + Corv cores and most Mews ; even being able to wear down stuff like Fluffy :gliscor: with Taunt or Nature's Madness. I think it gives :iron moth: a very nice niche cause Moth checks Facade Koko quite reliably. The Choice Band set, although even stronger, is a bit more reliant on predictions.
There are so many viable mons that I could go on forever but I covered what I wanted to cover most. See you in the next Naaatdex tournament :)
 

Giyu

Tomioka
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
Triage is quickbanned, Hariyama, Iron Hands, Kommo-o, Ursaluna, and Zamazenta-Crowned are unbanned!
:sv/Hariyama: :sv/Iron-Hands: :sv/Kommo-o: :sv/Ursaluna: :sv/Zamazenta-Crowned:

The council has decided to ban Triage due to its widespread abuse and in return unban the four abusers that were initially found overpowered with the ability. Hariyama, Iron Hands, Kommo-o, and Ursaluna were found extremely unhealthy due to their combined access to Drain Punch and Belly Drum, further boosted by Triage, however, without the presence of Triage these Pokemon are seemingly fine and far from being as broken as they are with the ability. Furthermore, Zamazenta-Crowned will also be legalized as its initial ban was due to our early usage of a National Dex OU-based code as well as the fact that there is a large prominence in Ghost-types and Zamazenta-Crowned is stuck with Dauntless Shield.​
 
So, after fighting with friends in a little tournament in which the 1st round was AAA, I wanted to post the Teams I make because why not. I have a really fun time making those and seeing his flaw by testing. These 3 are very offensive Team, and man, sure won the Battles quickly

https://pokepast.es/25cde152e9e1af4b

First one is a Screens HO, Ft. :Regieleki: as the Screener. I was trying :Corviknight: but the paralysis (yeah, I know that sounds dumb but that give me a bad time) and the fact I don't block Hazards reliably was dissapointing, but :Regieleki: doesn't have any of those flaws. He's so fast that he don't need Prankster, he get rid of Hazards with Rapid Spin and doesn't get paralyzed. The other ones were just putted into It with some basic type relation in mind. I choose :Ogerpon-Cornerstone: because It was the only one hitting most :Roaring Moon: for a OHKO.

https://pokepast.es/d7e2c8657d246a00

Second is just a Rain Team, nothing much to say, just set Drizzle with :Zapdos: and tear everything with your rain Sweepers :Quaquaval: and :Walking Wake:. :Iron Treads: is for things that want to threaten Zapdos and :Diancie: is just the lead, having Magic Bounce when Mega-evolve for other leads and Prankster for setting Hazards fast if it's needed. After a Match with some guy in the Nat Dex OM Room, they told me to put a Primordial Sea Pokemon, so a Desolate Land Mon doesn't solos the entire Team. Went with :Ogerpon-Wellspring: only because I really like it and can normally thank one hit, unlike Barras

https://pokepast.es/a5cc6f2c04d26759

Finally, this one... IS just a copy of my Team of Standard OU Play but with the advantages of the format. :Gholdengo: is Good as Gold because he still is the only one blocking Rapid and Mortal Spin too (Who is gonna use Aegis, anyways). The :Iron Moth: and :Ogerpon-Wellspring: Offensive Core just covers each others flaws REALLY well. :Great Tusk: as a Hazard removal like always, with Sword of Ruin giving him similar damage as it could have with Phroto. He can also set as a Win Condition too with some Rapid Spins. :Roaring Moon: as a powerful Dragon, pairs very well with everyone else in the Team, and can do well with or without Sticky Web up. :Ribombee: it's just too obvious why, it's the faster Sticky Web setter and can Beat :Diancie: 1v1 with the Sash, and also allows you to negate oponnent Sticky Web with Imprison.

So, that's It. Idk if I do this well, but here ya go.
 
Last edited:

Giyu

Tomioka
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
National Dex Almost Any Ability Tiering Survey
Greetings everyone, the National Dex Almost Any Ability Council is putting out a survey to gauge public opinion on the current metagame! We intend to vote on potential quickbans and retests as soon as possible and your input would be more valuable than ever. I'll be pinging everyone that played AAA in NDOTSL so please take a few minutes of your time to provide your input. Click below to access the survey form!

> > Click Here < <
 

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
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Finally... the time has come and NDOTSL has concluded and I can dump all my teams since it has been quite a while (and also since we do have our own forum, we might as well use it). Note: A lot of these teams remained untested and thus could be complete theorycrafted rubbish, use at your own discretion (also a lot of these teams kinda just cycle through similar defensive cores mashed with different offensive mons, well, I'm a lazy builder what can I say)

Tapu Koko + Gapdos Balance

:tapu-koko::zapdos-galar::corviknight::landorus-therian::latias::ferrothorn:
:tapu-koko::zapdos-galar::mew::blissey::great-tusk::corviknight:

Originally formulated both teams around Tapu Koko and Gapdos as a funny offensive duo, able to dually pressure and overload checks like Corviknight fairly well. The team is a bit slow though so I decided to try add some defensive Trick Scarfers to make up for the lack of speed control partially. The second team can struggle with Iron Moth a bit I'm not too entirely sure what to do about it. TrickScarf Lati was a funny thing I saw back in G8 so I decided to try to build a team around it with the other offensive mons as well. Gliscor can be annoying as well but Gapdos/hazards can pressure it well enough. Could try HDB Pixilate Return or MGLO SpA Tapu Koko as well they can probably work as well though I wanted spam Volt on Corv but hasn't worked out that great in practice, still two fairly potent offensive mons that work though.

Lazy HOs

:scream-tail::manaphy::kommo-o::lopunny-mega::zoroark-hisui::mew:
:spidops::ceruledge::zoroark-hisui::medicham-mega::manaphy::gholdengo:
:mew::landorus-therian::dhelmise::gholdengo::volcarona::mawile-mega:

Don't really need to explain much here, just lazy HO teams that you can go batshit with. Scream Tail can probably be replaced by just a generic Prankster screens lead, Thief on MMedicham is for Gholdengo. SD Adapt Zoro-H seems very odd but can work as useful bait, able to grab a free SD on the switch and force them to sack their RegenVest/Chansey or something like their Intim Corv/Gliscor (+1 252 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Zoroark-Hisui Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 242-286 (68.3 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery).

Mega Sableye Balance

:primarina::ferrothorn::heatran::sableye-mega::heliolisk::gliscor:

Bit of an odd team so I'll go through it a bit more. I originally built this team with Desoland Heatran in mind and paired it up with Heliolisk as an offensive core. Scarf Heliolisk is a bit weak but I needed speed control and it can clean pretty well if Heatran manages to lure one of its checks like RegenVest Swampert. After this I realised this kinda flopped entirely into WBB Ferrothorn (Heliolisk can pressure but it can take a while) so I decided to throw in a great counter to Ferrothorn in MSab. While an odd mon, it can pretty much completely deny Ferrothorn from doing anything so I thought it'd be pretty cool (although might be prone to getting doubled on). Intim Gliscor was added on as a generic blanket physwall + hazard removal, MSab also checks some annoying random Ice coverage mons like MMedicham and Iron Hands that could potentially pop up. Next up I deliberated for quite a while but ultimately chose this core I originally used on another team which was Regen Ferrothorn + RegenVest Prim but is probably flexible with whatever 2 man SpD core you wanna run. Worked pretty well by itself as a SpDef core, provided hazards, a convenient Tapu Fini switch-in and also an extra Barra check as Heatran isn't entirely reliable into random CC/Drill Run.

Extra Note: Grass-coverage Fire types like Moth/Heatran can be annoying themselves so you can switch out the Primarina for Silvally Dragon (and replace Heliolisk with Azelf for Clanging Souls Kommo-o) or run PrimSea Wake as your scarfer to cope if you care that much Primarina just looks funnier. (Heatran is speed creeped for Gliscor)

Lazy Scarf Azelf + Band Scrappy Terrakion/Gapdos Balance

:ferrothorn::swampert::gholdengo::corviknight::terrakion::azelf:
:primarina::ferrothorn::azelf::terrakion::gliscor::gholdengo:
:empoleon::zapdos-galar::goodra::azelf::corviknight::gliscor:
:goodra-hisui::ferrothorn::azelf::zapdos-galar::gliscor::tapu-fini:

Most of these teams follow under the same formulaic structure (I am a lazy builder ok) where you utilise Scarf Special into big fat breaker that can take advantage of offensive pivot (in this case, Azelf and Gapdos/Terrakion). I think Scrappy is the best ability on Terrakion now imo since it allows you to far better click in face of constantly annoying Gholdengo's while still retaining relatively similar performance into common Intimidate mons. Rest is just generic defensive filler that you might recognise from other teams.

Desolate Land Iron Moth + Intimidate Gliscor Balance

:iron-moth::gliscor::barraskewda::slither-wing::tapu-fini::meloetta:
:iron-moth::gliscor::azelf::walking-wake::ferrothorn::meloetta:
:iron-moth::gliscor::manaphy::azelf::tapu-lele::zarude:

Most of these teams stemmed from the basic fact Gliscor is fun but also sucks into Water-types. Thus Iron Moth serves as a fairly obvious pairing, while retaining some nice offensive utility like TSpikes and stuff. Random Ice coverage from the likes of MMedicham can still be very annoying, particularly for the 2nd team but I think there's nothing better else to be done but outplay. Fini/Ferrothorn/Manaphy were chosen because Moth isn't actually that reliable of a Barra check and is more so for the Flip Turn block and utility so other soft checks are appreciated. Azelf and Wake can pressure special walls and break them down (especially with Spikes up), Barraskewda and Slither Wing can do similar on the physical spectrum (Slither could maybe be Banded Tinted for a better Clanging Kommo-o MU) and Zarude came up as a neat way to check annoying Rising Voltage mons while cramming in offensive potency (Dhelmise might be better so I don't get owned by Heliolisk U-turn lol).

Pivot Spam Offense

:walking-wake::slither-wing::tapu-koko::gliscor::corviknight::meloetta:
:terrakion::walking-wake::tapu-koko::corviknight::garchomp::meloetta:

More offensive team, with the barebones minimum defensive core that can pass by. Your goal is mainly just winning faster and keeping up momentum, with two strong breakers in CB Tinted Slither Wing and Specs Wake and all your defensive mons carrying slow pivot to try to win the positioning war. 2nd team abuses fun Toxic Debris Garchomp to try to win back momentum in pivot wars and mixed Draco can lure Great Tusk for Terrakion, with Wake acting as the main speed control this time around and also emergency Victini switch-in and secondary Fire check plus probably is replaceable as being blocked by Moth is annoying. Tapu Koko is mostly filler but helps to check rare Hydreigon and can also contribute to the pivot spam/cycle or provide emergency hazard removal if needed. Could be replaced for a Water Immunity like Iron Moth as Barraskewda constantly keeping momentum with Flip Turn can be quite annoying.

Electrode-Hisui + Gapdos Balance

:electrode-hisui::zapdos-galar::gliscor::meloetta::kommo-o::gholdengo:
:electrode-hisui::zapdos-galar::heatran::kommo-o::swampert::corviknight:

More fast special mon pivot into big physical breaker. HElectrode is a pretty cool mon for its ability to fairly reliably Volt Switch freely with Grounds like Swamp and GTusk scared to death from MGLO Chloroblast. One thing that does kinda suck is that as speed control it's kinda eh and thus you have sus matchups into stuff like Clanging Souls Kommo-o (I hate this mon btw) TBH Azelf is kinda just better now that I think about it. Defensive Kommo-o on the other hand is pretty cool as a nifty Barra and physfire check, while also soft-checking stuff for Swamp like Grass coverage Moth (pray it's not DGleam) and also Rising Voltage mons in a 1v1. Heatran is basically filler but I wanted to abuse TDebris and I decided to just put it on Heatran as it can at least dissuade Corv from defogging (and GTusk, kinda). Probably better abusers though but shrug not bothered to optimise.

(Bad) Fat

:skarmory::great-tusk::chansey::heatran::mew::ferrothorn:
:buzzwole::gholdengo::garchomp::tapu-fini::chansey::sableye-mega:

The eternal struggle to build Fat is real. I have like 10 other Fat/Stall teams lying around but they all kinda suck lol building fat in this tier is hard :(
Skarmory was a cool option I found for Fat, basically being Spikes Corv and I started to build around it. The first team is definitely a bit sus without any Intim/Fluffy mons, but it's hard to fit and so you have to cope with juggling Mew, GTusk and Skarm. Wandering Spirit Rocky Helmet Skarm was a cool thing I saw and stole from G8 and wanted to run GTusk to provide extra support and more reliably hazard removal. Unaware Chansey and Bulletproof Ferro was a generic core from long while ago that I stole and Scarf Mew rounded it out to check Fighting-types, Clanging Kommo-o variants and emergency Trick support while Heatran provides some offensive flavour and an extra Barra check which is valuable. 2nd team was my attempt to make Buzzwole viable and defensive sets just sucks to put on balance given you need like 2 mons to cover all your weaknesses and it's passive AF so I ended up building the fat around it. No rocks is sus (you could maybe put it on like Garchomp and dual hazards) but I have other ways of chipping down the opponent anyway. SpD Sableye is to cope against offensive Kommo-o variants (and also helps into Azelf). Could make Fini TrickScarf as well cause that's kinda fun.

(Bad) Fat ft Breaker Who Abuses Hazards

:skarmory::kommo-o::blissey::dhelmise::iron-treads::walking-wake:
:golisopod::dhelmise::zoroark-hisui::gliscor::meloetta::kommo-o:
:blissey::iron-treads::gliscor::kommo-o::gholdengo::walking-wake:


Hazards are really kinda broken so I wanted to try making fatter hazard stack teams and a breaker who really abuses them (like MGLO Zoroark-H or Specs Wake) but it's pretty meh. Most of these teams lack great speed control which isn't really great, though the one at the top has Scarf Wake (and as an emergency Tini switch-in) so it can cope though it loses out on significant power. Last team is really sus with only Iron Treads removal but I'm too lazy to optimise and probably would have to completely reorganise the team anyway. Zoro-H is funny but probably not worth it, 2nd team is very reliant on Meloetta for the special side which seems like a glaring issue. PrimSea Golispod was to cram a Mamo check and emergency Tini switch-in + Spikes (though you could probably cram Golispod and Dhelmise into one slot if you give up Spin). Haven't tested these teams much but im not very optimistic....

Spikes Garchomp Balance

:garchomp::swampert::corviknight::iron-moth::alakazam::walking-wake:
:garchomp::walking-wake::meloetta::gliscor::regieleki::tapu-fini:

Spikes Garchomp is a pretty fun mon and setter and Spikes are pretty broken in general especially paired up with breakers like Walking Wake. Both teams were formulated around these ideas, the first revolves around a pretty basic Regen Garchomp core which pairs pretty well with both RegenVest Swampert, acting as a secondary check to annoyances like Grass coverage Heatran/Moth, and also with Corv with the obvious Fire/Electric resist. Leaving me a free slot I just went with Iron Moth for a Barra block/Koko check + offensive utility but could potentially be replaced while Wake + Alakazam is a generic break down the RegenVest/Chansey/Blissey offensive combo. 2nd team acts somewhat similarly although this time is a bit more offensive with bait SpA Chomp to blow up GTusk and dissuade Gliscor/Corv from fogging (was originally Regen LO but I wanted Fini so...) Regieleki is weird honestly idk why it's here but it's extra removal + funny bait + speed control ig lol.

Fluffy Mandibuzz + EE Dengo Balance

:mandibuzz::gholdengo::ferrothorn::swampert::manaphy::meowscarada:
:mandibuzz::gholdengo::ferrothorn::swampert::heliolisk::iron-hands:

Same defensive cores but I just came up with two offensive cores that were neat so I was lazy and decided to just copy and paste the defensive cores lol. Note, these teams struggle into Scrappy Terrakion super hard but to be fair I made these teams far earlier compared to the rest when Scrappy Terrakion was less of a thing. Basic theory was Intim Mandy can cover for Gholdengo's weaknesses (Zarude and CO) while Ghold can do the same for stuff like Terrakion. Swampert is a fairly good RegenVest on its own but can be commonly overwhelmed especially with more and more checks running random Grass coverage (see Arishem vs cat game) so WBB Ferrothorn works well as a Swampert complement to serve as a secondary check for these mons. Heliolisk + Surge Surfer Iron Hands is a cool combo as Heliolisk sets up terrain and lets Iron Hands come in on checks like Ferrothorn and Blissey to devour them. Speed control is sus though so it might be better to make Heliolisk Scarf. Manaphy is just a very fun and powerful breaker on its own and Meowscarada acts as seperate speed control and brings Manaphy in on Corv and stuff for Tail Glow breaking opportunities.

Specs Hydreigon + Scarf Wake Beatdown

:hydreigon::walking-wake::silvally-dragon::ferrothorn::mew::mandibuzz:

While stacking two mons who seem to be stuffed by Tapu Fini seems like a bad idea in a meta where Regen Tapu Fini is relatively popular, that is exactly the point of the team, to stack and overwhelmed Fini and win. Hydreigon isn't actually that bad as a breaker, with its potent Dark/Dragon STAB that can be fairly spammable so I wanted a way to utilise it without getting owned by Fini. Inserting Toxic on Hydreigon, Knock Off on Walking Wake and Regen Ferro spamming hazards means Tapu Fini can easily get pressured into DPulse 2HKO range especially given most Tapu Fini aren't SpD invested. Regen Ferro + RegenVest Silvally Dragon is also a pretty cool combo, Ferro able to check annoying Wakes and also Tapu Lele with Chople Berry (as long as they dont FBlast on the switch). Mew + Mandibuzz is a new defensive combo that works ok, Water Absorb is just filler and could possibly be replaced with any ability really.

Desoland Ceruledge Balance

:ceruledge::manaphy::gliscor::sableye-mega::landorus-therian::walking-wake:
:ceruledge::gliscor::blissey::iron-treads::manaphy::walking-wake:
:ceruledge::great-tusk::corviknight::gholdengo::meloetta::slither-wing:

First two teams were derivations of each other while the last was an early team that I now realise is legal in SV AAA but it probably(?) still works so I'll kinda just put it here anyway. Ceruledge is the main breaker on these teams, for good reason, being an extraordinarily powerful breaker like in SV AAA with very few real defensive checks. Rest of the team is designed mainly just to support Ceruledge, with double removal or MSab on the first time. Scarf Wake is as here as speed control, emergency Banded Victini switch-in and also to help bring in Ceruledge for fun breaking opportunities. Regen Take Heart Manaphy was a concept I stole from G8 after seeing a Regen Sub CM Suicine that pairs well with Gliscor to check Barra and co.

Other Miscellaneous Balance

:iron-hands::meowscarada::gliscor::meloetta::gholdengo::terrakion:
:zarude::walking-wake::corviknight::manaphy::mew::kommo-o:
:corviknight::zapdos::landorus-therian::swampert::zapdos-galar::azelf:

I realised I'm too lazy to keep seperating them so here's a bunch of the remaining balance teams I have around. The first team is kinda on crack and idk how I came up with this team but I think it began with "Iron Hands is cool, but I already did Surge Surfer". Team definitely has a sketch defensive core but you have a potent offensive core so just win faster I guess lol. Meowscarada, Hands and Terrak all serve to put pressure on common defensive walls, Terrak might be better to be Scrappy though but shrug. 2nd team is somewhat generic balance, Mew pairs well with Kommo-o who can Zarude for Mew and scout other phys breakers. Zarude is forced to be speed control here but pairs up well with Wake to threaten each others checks and create opportunities to break stuff. VA Corv + Manaphy core is pretty obvious while Corv gives me a secondary check to Meow in case it's like Play Rough to snipe Kommo-o. Third team is pretty generic and focused around Specs Azelf which can put up some pretty decent numbers and pressure checks with pivot and Knock, with Scarf Gapdos (could be SoR) as speed control and a funny Landorus to block Barra Flip and set rocks (could run Toxic/Edge to hit Zapdos).

VR Recommendations

Since Giyu wont listen to my constant comments in council chat about the VR I'll also post my thoughts on the current VR smh.

:sv/buzzwole: A+ -> B+ (or lower)

Ngl Buzzwole SUCKS. I can't fanthom how Buzzwole was ever banned in G8 but I suppose MBounce, Triage and PHeal were legal back then so that probably helped lol (also no Gholdengo). In any case, in NDAAA I've (and others it seems) rarely found use for Buzzwole due to being outclassed on offensive sets and being extraordinarily passive on defensive sets. CB Tinted is just outclassed by Gapdos/Terrakion/Slither Wing due to a myriad of reasons like having better speed (All of them), a better move pool (Slither Wing/Gapdos) and better STABs (Gapdos/Terrakion). Defensive sets just dont do anything and thus are extraordinarily exploitable with stuff like Fini/Ghold/Zapdos easily taking advantage of it. Not giving this thing even pivot or rocks is absolutely criminal and the only thing it can do is Toxic (and thus the only team I have it on is Corrosion) and BU is pathetic since it is stuck with its low speed and exploitable typing and SpD.

:sv/TOXAPEX: :sv/muk-alola: A -> B+ (or lower)

Both mons have failed to prove themselves in NDOTSL and I also have found very little usage for them. Pex while does get Scald and Knock back, is still very passive and hates the recovery nerf. Defensively it's not that useful anymore either given Victini has a powerful Bolt Strike to blow it up and it's easy enough to blow apart with the myriad of breakers. Really only useful for Prank Haze which is ok but a lot of teams prefer just big Choice mons and you can handle HO with regular speed control as well. Still could be useful but I would like to see any proof. AMuk is similar and has very little usage. It lacks useful resists apart from a Psychic immunity and isn't the bulkiest RegenVest either. The one interesting thing it can do is Pursuit but the main Ghost Gholdengo can sit on it and NP if you're not careful (and can just tank the Pursuit anyway lol) while Zoro-H can BSlam it as well if it's careless.

:sv/victini: A+ -> A

Victini is still definitely a strong mon don't get me wrong but it feels very risky to actually use yourself. While it has an annoying amount of coverage to potentially troll checks with, it's always a gamble as Victini is a mon that everyone has on their mind and there are a plethora of soft checks as well (WBB Ferro, WBB Ghold, Regen Chomp, Primsea Zapdos, Regen Kommo-o, etc). Banded Desoland is extraordinarily strong but can also prove just as useless while it retains its slow speed and a rocks weakness that really want you to make sure it can do work when it's in. Thus I think it shouldn't be in such a high placement when there are more consistent and splashable progress makers with their own defensive utility and perks (Wake, Gapdos, Terrakion, etc).

:sv/dhelmise: UR -> B/B-

While the anchor certainly isn't the greatest mon, I don't think it should deserve the lowly UR placement (especially with some of the lower ranked mons we have that have seen zero usage, even up in A) STAB Poltergeist can be extremely strong and it has unique defensive utility + being one of the few spinners around allow it a niche imo.

:sv/Kommo-o: B+ -> A-

Mon is pretty cool in a 2AC environment imo. Great Barra check and can also serve to check other annoying Fires, Zarude and Electrics + Ogerpon-C (assuming it's not troll coverage). It pairs well with other staples of the tier like Gliscor and Corv quite well while being quite a good hazard setter while offering other utility like Toxic to wear down the enemy. Worth the small promotion imo.

:sv/Ogerpon-Cornerstone: A -> A-

Another case of the no usage demotion I think is deserved. Has plenty of soft checks in Corviknight, Gliscor, Mew, Gholdengo, Ferrothorn and the more affordable Regen Kommo-o with 2AC. The speed is ok but not great and can fail to reach some OHKOs and die instead versus stuff like GTusk which is annoying asf. Still letting it stay relatively high because it has potential to troll stuff with coverage and do cool stuff with Spikes/Pivot but I'd keep it lower until someone does utilise it.

:sv/heliolisk::sv/slither-wing: :sv/empoleon: UR to A-/B+

These being completely unranked is pretty undeserved IMO. Heliolisk I've found to be one of the more consistent Hadron Engine abusers given it has U-turn so it can better use Choice sets and packs some neat coverage in Focus Blast which is pretty nice. Other abusers like Washtom/Thundy all have their own issues which gimp them more from being slower, to lacking a truly powerful Rising Voltage and SR weakness. Slither Wing doesn't appreciate GTusk/Gholdengo that much but it doesn't mean it's bad at all imo. Banded FImp is still a powerful priority move that makes it useful as speed control while the ability to spam pivot freely makes it still a decent offensive pivot that can partner with other threats it can help bring in. Definitely don't deserve UR at least. Empoleon is pretty cool as well, Bulletproof as a fairly solid Ghost/Lele check and Volt Absorb can help check another Hadron mons and Zapdos all the while checking Wake and also setting rocks, offering pivot and also Knock/Defog.

There's a few other mons I'm teetering on the edge about like promoting Wake/Gapdos, Cinderace is a bit sus as well, a lot of the lower ranked mons lack any usage at all (like Ursaluna, MScizor, etc) and many could be killed and also just like demoting all of S- and S one rank down (why are there so many S- mons) except like Gholdengo because I think that's the only true S tier mon rn.

Thoughts on Meta

Overall I still have enjoyed building around this tier's current state (as evidenced by my 30 teams). Certainly a lot of mons dominate the top perhaps to an unhealthy extent to make teambuilding boring and I have Corv/Gliscor on like 70% of my teams but I've still managed to play around and have fun with some neat ideas myself even if still adopting somewhat similar structures for a lot of these teams. I have heard some complaints about HO being too good though I don't see much evidence for that myself imo, many of the HO games in NDOTSL being fairly close or just being the result of poor luck, play or building. Though I will have to say strong speed control is necessary on most teams. There might be some extra stuff freed soon:tm: and the meta should find some fun new stuff from DLC2 so in case you do find the current state of the meta boring you can always advocate to free (or ban) stuff if you don't like them. Until the next NDAAA tour! (and back to spamming the matchmaking channel instead...)
 
I completely forgot what I put on the survey so I did it again based on what I remember. Here we go!

Enjoyment: 8/10
Competitiveness: 9/10

I'd enjoy the meta a lot more if Lordbox stopped farming me. All jokes aside, the metagame offers the room to explore a lot of builds and experiment with a wide variety of Pokemon. I think a lot of Pokemon that looked scary on paper here eventually ended up being balanced in the long run. Enjoyment is probably as low as it is because not that much activity occurs for this meta outside of tours which is a bit sad. That or staring down LordBox's builds.


:gholdengo: 2/5

I can understand why people would find this annoying but judging by the replays from the tour and from the numerous games I've played with and against it, Gholdengo just seems to be a powerful mon that needs to be accounted for in the builder. That's about it. Never really felt like it was that broken in all honesty. While it is true that Gholdengo does invalidate a lot of builds, I don't see this being any different to ill-prepared teams crumbling to SOR fightings, Scarf Azelf or Corviknight.

If anything, losing Gholdengo at this stage would be a pretty big concern for the metagame overall imo. 2/5 instead of 1/5 because I am sympathetic.


:victini: 1/5

More controversial but this has really felt hit or miss imo. I think this mon suffers from 4MSS and the fact that double regen teams are the rage right now. It also doesn't help that the metagame is sufficiently fast enough to pressure Victini from bowling teams, and that stall has 2-3 mons that can play around it. Mixed attacking sets do strain the builder a tad, but compared to other things running around here this seems tame.

I would probably vote 2/5 if I had to redo this. I think at the time I was like "why is this mon being tested lol", but I think I've sobered up to understand the POV that others might have on this mon.


:alomomola: :amoonguss: 2 Ability Clause = 2: 1/5

Tbh, this seems like a question for the current-gen mainers. Most people I've spoken to said that the metagame was fine with a 2 ability clause. Correct me if I am wrong, but the 2 ability clause thing in current gen AAA doesn't seem like it would be instated for the entire generation. If that is the case, then actioning this in Nat Dex is weird.


:alakazam-mega: :alakazite: Remain Ban

Easiest 'Remain Ban' of my life. I'm sorry, but I really don't want to face Hadron Engine or Psychic Surge Mega Alakazam.


:archeops: Should be banned, cool with test

Council banned this really early. I thought Archeops was fine back then so I was a lot more passionate. However, now I think the metagame is in a comfortable position in terms of balance and releasing something as loaded as Archeops seems a bit much.


:blacephalon: Should be banned, cool with test

Same reasons as archeops, except Blace is way more min maxxed.


:deoxys-speed: FREE MY MANS

I played this and helped guide the council on this vote by playing test games. At the time, I didn't want a potentially broken threat in NDOTSL messing up the format for 3 weeks. However, I must admit wasn't really that broken in the few games I played. My main concern (which I had at the time) is that having a pokemon as fast and powerful as DeoS would be bad for offense. Sure, regieleki exists, but Reggy E isn't pulling the same punch with Protean expert belt.

Even if this ends up being banned, who cares. At least we got a confirmation of what this thing can do.


:dragonite: Should be banned, cool with test

Yeah this is another offense killer. I think this mon is broken, but should still be tested regardless to see if it would be too much for the metagame. Not a 100% sure what I actually voted, but I think this position sounds about right.


:genesect:

I have genuinely no clue what I put for this. I remember voting to free 2 mons, so maybe that? I still haven't made my mind on where I sit with this tbh.


Other Suggestions

Free Gambit. I'm washed :psysad:
 

Giyu

Tomioka
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
National Dex Almost Any Ability Tiering Survey Responses

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy playing the current metagame?. Number of responses: 14 responses.

6.9/10

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-10, how competitive and balanced do you find the current metagame?. Number of responses: 14 responses.

6.6/10

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about Gholdengo in the current tier?. Number of responses: 14 responses.

2.9/5

1701216867499.png

2.6/5

Forms response chart. Question title: On a scale of 1-5, how do you feel about 2 Ability Clause in the current tier?. Number of responses: 14 responses.

2.6/5


Forms response chart. Question title: In the future, how enthusiastic would you be for a Alakazite retest?. Number of responses: 14 responses.


Forms response chart. Question title: In the future, how enthusiastic would you be for a Archeops retest?. Number of responses: 14 responses.


Forms response chart. Question title: In the future, how enthusiastic would you be for a Blacephalon retest?. Number of responses: 14 responses.


Forms response chart. Question title: In the future, how enthusiastic would you be for a Deoxys-Speed retest?. Number of responses: 14 responses.


Forms response chart. Question title: In the future, how enthusiastic would you be for a Dragonite retest?. Number of responses: 14 responses.


Forms response chart. Question title: In the future, how enthusiastic would you be for a Genesect retest?. Number of responses: 14 responses.

The council will not vote on Gholdengo, Victini, or 2 Ability Clause as all three did not reach a requirement of 60%. Alakazite and Blacephalon also didn't get votes due to their overall disapproval, while Archeops, Deoxys-Speed, Dragonite, and Genesect recieved a council slate instead.
 

Giyu

Tomioka
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
Deoxys-Speed, Dragonite, and Genesect have been unbanned, Archeops remains banned!
:sv/Deoxys-Speed: :sv/Dragonite: :sv/Genesect: :sv/Archeops:

Ban...​
Atha
Giyu
Result​
Archeops :Archeops:
UNBAN​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
1-3 BAN​
Deoxys-Speed :Deoxys-Speed:
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
4-0 UNBAN​
Dragonite :Dragonite:
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
BAN​
3-1 UNBAN​
Genesect :Genesect:
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
BAN​
UNBAN​
3-1 UNBAN​

Reasoning...
:Archeops:
Archeops was originally banned due to its terrifiying combination of Magic Guard, Life Orb, and Head Smash, negating Archeops' crippling weakness to Stealth Rock and Head Smash's detrimental recoil damage as well as a great Attack stat, respectable Speed tier, and decent Special Attack stat, enabling mixed sets. Defensive checks like Great Tusk, Gholdengo, Corviknight, and Ferrothorn were quickly overpowered due to Archeops' colourful movepool including Dual Wingbeat, Toxic, Earthquake, Focus Blast, Heat Wave, and Knock Off as well as pivoting via U-turn, dealing a great amount of chip damage and boasting the ability to flee unfavourable situations with ease. Archeops is effectively unwallable and fast enough to outpace a lot of the tier, hence the council's reasoning for keeping it banned.
Archeops @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Naive Nature
- Head Smash
- Earthquake / Dual Wingbeat
- U-turn / Focus Blast / Heat Wave
- Knock Off / Roost / Toxic

:Deoxys-Speed:
Despite Deoxys-S' impeccable movepool and Speed, due to its mediocre offensive stats and frailty, it tends to lose to offensive and defensive answers like Gholdengo, Ferrothorn, Victini, and Mega Mawile as they are commonly used. Deoxys-S struggles with 4 moveslot syndrome, unable to fit all of the coverage moves it needs and hates not recieving STAB with them. The prominence of double Regenerator and Assault Vest Pokemon can be extremely annoying for Deoxys-S, forcing it to use mixed sets that are typically underpowered. Additionally, entry hazards are extremely tough for Deoxys-S to switch into due to its nature of it being constantly pivoted in and low bulk.
Deoxys-Speed @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force / Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid / Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic / Psycho Boost
- Focus Blast / Superpower
- Ice Beam / Shadow Ball / Knock Off
- Thunderbolt / Energy Ball / Nasty Plot

Deoxys-Speed @ Expert Belt / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Superpower / Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off / Shadow Ball

:Dragonite:
With Aerilate, Dragonite gains a very reliable and powerful STAB move in Extreme Speed, preventing revenge killers from taking it out and allows it to be a very effective revenge killer. It was previously part of the original banlist of NDAAA, however, with the existence of defensive answers like Corviknight, defensive Gholdengo, and Well-Baked Body Ferrothorn as well as offensive checks such as Tapu Koko, Terrakion, Tapu Lele, and Walking Wake, Dragonite appears to be quite tame and manageable. The lack of any good Ice-types may prove to be an issue but we'll see how Dragonite goes with time.
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots / Firium Z / Choice Band
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Joly Nature
- Outrage / Dragon Claw / Roost
- Extreme Speed
- Earthquake / Fire Punch
- Dragon Dance / Superpower

:Genesect:
Boasting an entire vault of viable abilities, endless coverage, and great stats, Genesect was deemed too overbearing in the early stages of NDAAA. Shift Gear sets were very powerful when accompanied by Tinted Lens, Sheer Force, and several of the -ate abilities, Choice Scarf heavily appreciated Regenerator, and Choice Band took great advantage of U-turn. Pixilate and Refrigerate allow Genesect to threaten Great Tusk with Extreme Speed while Blazing Kick hit Corviknight and Ferrothorn. While Genesect looks really impressive on paper, several ways to answer it exist such as Well-Baked Body on the aforementioned Steel-types, Fluffy Gliscor, Buzzwole, Mew, and practically any Fire-type. Genesect also struggles with 4 moveslot syndrome and Shift Gear sets easily lose to Unaware.
Genesect @ Life Orb / Never-Melt Ice / Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force / Tinted Lens / Refrigerate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Leech Life / Extreme Speed / Explosion
- Blaze Kick
- Shift Gear / U-turn

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Iron Head
- U-turn
- Ice Beam / Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
 

LOrd Fernado

I COULD BE BANNED!
Velroc u wanted aaa opinions, here they are (although this is from a noob perspective)
:archaludon:
this is almost definitely better than hisuian goodra in terms of offense and physdef sets (idbp). now the only reason to ever use hisuian goodra is for regenvest but archaludon is certainly better
:hydrapple:
well its an interesting mon, but its a slow grass / dragon type that gets hardwalled by ferrothorn, corviknight and many popular walls so sadly not great
:gouging-fire:
this has stiff competition with mchar x, but the fact it doesn't use up the mega slot and can use an item means that it has a distinct niche over it, even though it has less sheer power
:raging-bolt:
this is broken with hadron engine or surge surfer. i will say no more because i trust council to ban this IMMEDIATELY. (Giyu, LordBox, Codename C.A.T, Atha pleeease)
:iron-boulder:
this is ripoff terrakion because of a worse typing and attack stat. it has a niche because it is faster and has a crazy sig move, but other than that not really great
:iron-crown:
on paper this looks worse than azelf because of a worse speed and special attack stat, but then you realise that it QUAD RESISTS expanding force, gets a secondary stab option, can pivot out without activating stuff like tdebris and bypasses fluffy, and we have a decent psysurge mon.
:terapagos::terapagos-terastal::terapagos-stellar:
this has no niche whatsoever because its forced into tera shift to be good, otherwise its shit. also stellar form is banned (thank GOD)
 
Last edited:

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Raging Bolt is quickbanned!

:sv/raging-bolt:
Ban...AthaCodename C.A.TGiyuLordBoxResult
Raging BoltBANBANBANBAN4-0 BAN

Sorry for the late vote, but we're finally here! because we were playing current gen formats instead Raging Bolt has made quite the storm in AAA, Spec sets were monstrously powerful, with a base 137 SpA even higher than Miraidon's, leading to it 2HKOing/OHKOing the majority of the tier with Hadron Engine Rising Voltage even through resists. Ground types weren't entirely safe either due to it having a strong STAB Draco Meteor that obliterated most and also Dragon-type resists. Checks like SpD Ferrothorn/Volt Absorb Corviknight would also become prey to Sub CM sets and it even had Thunderclap to make up for its low speed, leading to forcing very few true checks like Goodra-Hisui or just losing. As such, Raging Bolt has been unanimously quickbanned from NDAAA by council vote!​

Extra Note: This ban marks the 3rd ban in part due to Hadron Engine, and with other users also retaining some controversy with Rising Voltage, Hadron Engine has become the target of a potential ban and opening the possibility of freeing previously banned mons (Xurkitree, Zeroara). No action is planned as of yet, but any thoughts are appreciated :)
 

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Been a while with DLC2 out as well as large meta shifts with the release of major mons like Dragonite and Genesect since my last post and since I've flipped back to NDAAA for a while as SVAAA sorts itself out I thought it'd be due time to make a small post with thoughts on mons and the meta as a whole + provisional VR as the current one is somewhat oudated.

:sv/iron-hands:

Iron Hands has been released from the banlist for quite a while now however in that latest dump I didn't end up experimenting much with it so I decided to give it a good go. So far I'd say it's actually quite cool as a defensive mon, mainly on Regenerator sets. With 154/104 physical bulk even without any boost to its physical defense it can serve as a decent blanket physical check and scout, scouting and checking the likes of the Choice Band fighting types (Gapdos, Terrak, etc), Barraskewda, MLop, MCharizard, Ceruledge, Dhelmise, Dragonite, Genesect, Meowscarada and Roaring Moon (though some of these definitely can be shaky). On the special spectrum the bulk is less impressive but can be shored up with an Assault Vest to decently compete with the rest, performing well into the Ghosts and Electrics as well as admirably into neutral threats like Desoland mons and Wake. The Psychic weakness is definitely an annoyance but it isn't so bad to have a good check for those threats anyway. Main issue is Tusk being a fat fuck everywhere that can block your pivot, more annoying for RegenVest as it can't SD to try to somewhat threaten it but it's not an insurmountable issue. Moveslots and items can be flexible, Rocky Helmet is nice on physical sets to more actively punish when scouting but Lefties/Boots to shore up bulk is probably ok as well.

:choice-band::sv/meowscarada:

While the set on the compendium references only Choice Scarf, which is a fine set, I think Meowscarada is significantly underrated as a Choice Band breaker. Corviknight still remains a strong and annoying presence, but there are now many other fat Intim walls like Gliscor/Mew present and popular of which Meowscarada takes advantage of beautifully, with Flower Trick's ability to ignore Fluffy and Intimidate being noticeable benefits.
This, along with the fact a lot of people just straight up forget about it, means Meow is actually a really fun breaker. Even with more solid checks like Corviknight however Meowscarada can still function reliably and consistently with its ability to spam pivot, Knock Off and constantly get in with its good speed tier. Should be used more and probably belongs a tier or two up the VR imo. (Extra note: Roaring Moon deserves to at least be on the VR lol)

:sv/walking-wake:

Only talked about it a bit before in brief passing but I'll dedicate a bit more space on this post to talk about why Walking Wake is great. Firstly as an offensive mon it's just really flexible and consistent. It can function as a pure Specs breaker with immense power already capable of threatening neutral RegenVests like Swamp and even resists like Tapu Fini which is further amplified by its access to Knock Off which makes it almost always useful even against abhorrent matchups like RegenVest Primarina (perhaps a bit too offensively potent). It doesn't however need to function as purely a breaker and can flex as speed control reliably with Scarf, while still retaining utility with Knock + Pivot and having more than enough power to still be threatening and function as a lategame cleaner/revenge-killer. However it even has great benefit outside of its offensive usage as it boasts an incredibly valuable quadruple resistance to both Water and Fire which is fantastic for many teams that dont want to go out of their way to find a pure check to these that can often be quite passive, instead Wake can instead serve as a stopgap check while still retaining offensive utility.

:sv/deoxys-speed::sv/dragonite::sv/genesect:

These mons have been released for a while so here are my general thoughts on them. Deoxys Speed is just about fine. While its coverage is obnoxious and endless, it is just weak enough that most RegenVests and other resists like Gholdengo can handle them mostly fine. Psysurge sets are strong but not much better or different compared to our current Psysurgers (Azelf, Alakazam) while SFLO/Protean sets are significantly weaker and can be easily played around while lacking much utility meaning it isn't easy to slot onto teams.

Dragonite is really annoying and I'd rather it stay banned. It has an ok amount of checks but +2 priority ESpeed means it lacks good offensive checks and can blow past checks readily with coverage amplified by Z-Moves, though Unaware and Azelf mostly remain solid checks it still feels a bit dumb with how necessary it is to check.

Genesect is also just about as dumb. It has even more set variety than Dragonite, and while some of these can be offensively played around it always retain the annoying ability to setup and basically outspeed everything in the meta. It has an ok amount of checks as well but can definitely vary far more between sets, though majority of sets aren't entirely consistent apart from the more manageable ones (Eg: RegenScarf) it still is always a pain to see on the HO matchup and is not fun to deal with in the teambuilder (see: the legions of Ferrothorn in teambuilder in part due to Genesect)

:sv/pecharunt:

A new defensive option (finally) is coming soon in Pecharunt! It spouts a great defensive profile with 88/160/88 bulk as well as an ok typing. While it allows Pecharunt to competently check strong Fighting types like Terrakion and Gapdos, it also makes Pecharunt vulnerable to strong Psychic/Ghost/Dark-type attackers like MMedi, Meowscarada and Ceruledge. Ultimately I think it will be nice though it won't help too much as you can only have 6 slots on a team and many previous threats still lack new checks. I don't think it'll be much of a problem as contrary to some as it is still rather passive and is not actually unbreakable bar everything but CB Adapt Marshadow (see previous examples of threats). The only issue I forsee Pecharunt could possibly create would be enabling fat hazard stack to the point of viability which could be an issue with GaG still in the picture, though if this does happen we'd more likely target GaG rather than Pecharunt.

:sv/gouging-fire:

Strong. While it competes with MCharX and has to put up with its added counterplay (Intim Gliscor, WBB Ferro, Tapu Fini) and being arguably weaker it has several key advantages over MCharX that lets it be more than viable in face of competition. It has the ability to choose its item, ability and also have much better bulk. It can somewhat match MCharX's strength with all out offensive sets or it can opt to run bulkier and more consistent sets that retain much better utility than MCharX. Stuff like DesoLand/MG retain very nice defensive utility while still being threatening offensively, MG even being able to mostly bypass Ferrothorn as a check.

:sv/iron-boulder:

Arguably better than Terrakion and arguably broken. SD Rockium Z pretty much cleaves through the majority of defensive counterplay within the tier with ease. The only things that aren't unmons that can stand up to it are defensive Gholdengo and Garchomp, and +2 Continental Crush can still do 70%+ still, and non bulk invests means you can just die anyway lol. While Terrakion in theory can do this as well, it retains the massive flaw of losing to GTusk with Rockium Z and also being quite a bit slower even by a lot of other breakers meaning it's harder to get in and easier to revenge. It can run LO/Fightinium SD but suffers from recoil and losing to stuff like Intim Gliscor/Mew. Z-Moves are honestly just kinda broken on most setup sweepers but unfortunately I cannot ban Z-Moves :/

Outside of Gouging Fire/Iron Boulder I don't believe the majority of the new DLC2 mons will make much of an impact on the metagame so I'll quickly speed through the new mons with mini analyses.

:terapagos:Terrible. Stuck into its base ability which is mediocre with mediocre statspread, a lackluster typing and little offensive presence that cannot be handled by our bulky RegenVests or mons like EE Ghold.

:archaludon: Not very good. It has okay traits like decent power, physical bulk and SR but that's about it. It's very slow and with only mediocre power it isn't particularly gushing over as well as weaknesses to common offensive types and pathetic special bulk.

:hydrapple: Not very good. Its bulk is pretty ok but its typing is not very kind to it, a quadruple Water resist sounds good on paper until you realise it's weak to all the coverage Waters run (Ice, Dragon). Its offensive traits aren't actually that bad either but until I see someone pull it off I won't believe.

:iron-crown:Niche/Ok. Only set I believe in for this mon is that funny CM/Agility Weakness Policy Stored Power set Arishem showed to me, now that can pull off some funny wins on more than a few occasions. However outside of these sets, its power isn't worth gushing about with low speed compared to other PsySurge mons and only okay bulk wise with a less than mediocre typing defensively as a RegenVest with horrible weaknesses to Fire and Ghost and probably outclassed by Jirachi anyway.

Extra Meta Notes:

The watchlist also hasn't been updated for a bit but in terms of my personal watchlist, Gouging Fire, Light Clay and Iron Boulder are close to the top of the sus mons I'd be looking at, while Dragonite and Genesect aren't entirely too far off either. I don't believe HO is particularly dominant and isn't close to consistent yet as balance/BO still has strong and varied defensive options available but it certainly is dangerous with the sheer amount of varied offensive threats there are to account for that puts a lot of strain on defensive teambuilding. The amount of setup sweepers is definitely one of concerning note and are less able to be played around compared to regular strong breakers. Iron Boulder I already explained above while Light Clay might help to alleviate the burden a bit with the annoying amount of borderline threats that remain in the tier, plus who cares about what happens to screens HO anyway... Gouging Fire as explained does all it already does in SV AAA, and while alone might not be too bad, the plethora of other threatening setup sweepers increases the demand to alleviate some of the pressure. While there are added potential checks like WBB Ferrothorn/Tapu Fini they can often fall flat due to its immense bulk allowing for continued setup and the choice of abilities like Magic Guard to negate Leech Seed. MCharX is also fairly annoying though the lower bulk, SR weakness and inability to be flexible with an item/ability generally makes it considered easier to handle.

In terms of other potential council action, like mentioned before we are looking at potentially banning Hadron Engine and freeing its abusers (Xurkitree, Zeroara, Raging Bolt) as well as looking at Zamazenta-Hero as a potential mon to free as well. Zamazenta-Hero was initially banned fairly early on, but has reasonable justification to be freed. Our current main blanket physical checks handle it fairly well, in fact struggling with Gliscor in particular while Mew and Corviknight can take its Close Combats and Crunchs pretty well given Zamazenta-H's lack of a proper boosting move. Other prominent mons in the meta like Tapu Fini and Gholdengo also take it on fairly well along the newcomer Pecharunt. It is extremely fast but its offensive potency remains containable and the strong emphasis on speed control means more than a few teams will have ample revenge-killers anyway like Choice Scarf Azelf, Gapdos or Dragonite.

Also since the VR has been outdated for a while and since the majority of council members don't feel entirely confident on voting for a new one I decided to post my own personal VR here for suggestion (excluding some of the newer mons as it's hard to gauge their viability just yet)

PokemonAbilities
Tier 1Meta defining; will find a place on the majority of teams.
:Corviknight: CorviknightIntimidate, Fluffy, Well-Baked Body, Volt Absorb, Prankster
:Mew: MewIntimidate, Fluffy, Regenerator
:Gholdengo: GholdengoEarth Eater, Well-Baked Body, Magic Guard (really anything can work)
:Great Tusk: Great TuskRegenerator, Scrappy, Toxic Debris
:Gliscor: GliscorIntimidate, Fluffy, Water Absorb, Well-Baked Body
:Tapu-Koko: Tapu KokoPixilate, Magic Guard, Hadron Engine
:Blissey: BlisseyRegenerator, Magic Guard, Unaware, Vessel of Ruin, Good as Gold
:tapu-fini: Tapu FiniRegenerator
:ferrothorn: FerrothornWell-Baked Body, Regenerator, Bulletproof
Tier 2Great and consistent; will find justifiable usage on a lot of teams.
:azelf: AzelfPsychic Surge
:walking-wake: Walking WakeBeads of Ruin, Primordial Sea, Dragon's Maw
:tapu-lele: Tapu LeleSheer Force, Hadron Engine, Tinted Lens
:Iron Moth: Iron MothDesolate Land
:Zapdos-Galar: Zapdos-GalarSword of Ruin, Magic Guard, Scrappy
:terrakion: TerrakionSword of Ruin, Scrappy
:barraskewda: BarraskewdaPrimordial Sea
:garchomp: GarchompRegenerator, Download, Toxic Debris
:genesect: GenesectNo Guard, Tinted Lens, Sheer Force, Regenerator
:victini: VictiniDesolate Land, Sheer Force, Psychic Surge, Magic Guard, Regenerator
:swampert: SwampertRegenerator
:chansey: ChanseyRegenerator, Unaware, Magic Guard, Good as Gold, Vessel of Ruin
:manaphy: ManaphyRegenerator, Volt Absorb, Primordial Sea, Protosynthesis
:zapdos: ZapdosPrimordial Sea, No Guard
Tier 3Good; will find decent usage across teams / Great, but limited; strong in certain archetypes or with support but limited otherwise.
:skarmory: SkarmoryIntimidate, Fluffy, Well-Baked Body, Wandering Spirit
:cinderace: CinderaceDesolate Land, Magic Guard
:Ceruledge: CeruledgeDesolate Land, Sword of Ruin
:gengar: GengarSheer Force, Hadron Engine, Normalize
:zoroark-hisui: Zoroark-HisuiSheer Force, Magic Guard, Adaptability
:meowscarada: MeowscaradaSword of Ruin, Dazzling
:roaring-moon: Roaring MoonSword of Ruin, Regenerator
:Dragonite: DragoniteAerilate
:Electrode-Hisui: Electrode-HisuiMagic Guard, Hadron Engine
:zygarde-10%: Zygarde-10%Sword of Ruin, Hustle, Power Construct
:Goodra-Hisui: Goodra-HisuiRegenerator
:Heatran: HeatranDesolate Land, Regenerator
:Mandibuzz: MandibuzzFluffy, Intimidate, Unaware, Well Baked Body
:Meloetta: MeloettaRegenerator
:toxapex: ToxapexPrankster, Corrosion, Volt Absorb, Earth Eater
:iron-hands: Iron HandsRegenerator, Earth Eater, Well-Baked Body, Surge Surfer
:buzzwole: BuzzwoleWell-Baked Body, Tinted Lens, Corrosion, Fluffy
:landorus-therian: Landorus-TherianRegenerator, Aerilate, Galvanize
:lopunny-mega: Mega LopunnyIntrepid Sword
:slither-wing: Slither WingTinted Lens, Scrappy, Sword of Ruin, Magic Guard
:charizard-mega-x: Mega Charizard XIntrepid Sword, Drought, Magic Guard
:medicham-mega: Mega MedichamIntrepid Sword
:mawile-mega: Mega MawileIntrepid Sword
:deoxys-speed: Deoxys-SpeedPsychic Surge, Sheer Force, Protean, Prankster, Aroma Veil
:volcarona: VolcaronaSheer Force, Magic Guard, Desolate Land, Beads of Ruin
:kommo-o: Kommo-oRegenerator, Galvanize
Tier 4Niche but usable; will find limited usage on some teams.
:Ogerpon-Cornerstone: Ogerpon-CornerstoneRocky Payload, Sword of Ruin
:Ogerpon-Hearthflame: Ogerpon-HearthflameDesolate Land
:dhelmise: DhelmiseGrassy Surge
:zarude: ZarudeGrassy Surge, Tough Claws
:rotom-wash: Rotom-WashHadron Engine, Regenerator, Primordial Sea
:sableye-mega: Mega SableyePrankster, Dauntless Shield
:primarina: PrimarinaRegenerator, Primordial Sea
:alakazam: AlakazamPsychic Surge
:marowak-alola: Alolan MarowakDesolate Land, Sword of Ruin, Surge Surfer
:muk-alola: Alolan MukRegenerator
:thundurus: ThundurusSheer Force, Hadron Engine, Magic Guard
:empoleon: EmpoleonVolt Absorb, Earth Eater, Vessel of Ruin
:heliolisk: HelioliskHadron Engine
:smeargle: SmearglePrankster
:raikou: RaikouHadron Engine
:cobalion: CobalionMagic Guard, Regenerator
:latios: LatiosBeads of Ruin, Hadron Engine, Adaptability, Tinted Lens

Expect a teamdump soon as well, maybe (if I'm not lazy).
 

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
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Prefacing this announcement, Codename C.A.T has decided to step down from the AAA council. Thank you for your valuable contributions to the tier! On some better news...

Iron Boulder is quickbanned!

:sv/iron-boulder:

Ban...AthaGiyuLordBoxResult
Iron BoulderBANBANBAN3-0 BAN

With the NDAAA seasonal on the way, the council has decided to examine some of the threats in the tier to leave the meta in a healthy state for the seasonal. There are certainly a lot of strong threats that concern us but the most obvious was Iron Boulder. While it lacks much usage, mainly due ot a lack of games, one look at what it can do in theory is enough with it being able to blow up all manners of physical walls of the tiers quickly with +2 Rockium Z. In comparison to its cousin Terrakion, it's notably faster making it easier to find opportunities and more importantly has Psychic STAB to blow up the most common Rock resists like Iron Hands/Great Tusk. Playing aggressively to prevent an SD can also end in demise with Sharpness CB sets also available as a strong immediate breaker. Gholdengo is a popular check but is one of limited few and it would be unhealthy for bulkier teams to be forced into it, not even being secure without max bulk investment. With the plethora of other offensive threats in the tier already causing some havoc, the council has decided to unanimously ban Iron Boulder!​
 

R8

Leads Natdex Other Tiers, not rly doing ndou stuff
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National Dex Leader
:dracovish::yveltal::giratina-origin:
Even though Dracovish and Yveltal were banned through the challenge command, they never were explicitly listed in the first post of this thread. This mistake has now been fixed: Dracovish and Yveltal are now officially banned from National Dex AAA! Tagging dhelmise to implement when they have the time, thank you

Edit: Giratina-Origin too. Yeah...
 
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Wanted to post this team before the inevitable yveltal ban... but I still think it is a funny snapshot of the first few days of the ladder meta.

:Yveltal::Dragonite::Swampert::Manectric-Mega::Great Tusk::Skarmory:

s/o LordBox they are the actual goat and sent me a bunch of teams and that is where I got the skarm from, yveltal they posted in the disc and it is even more busted than the special sets running around everywhere on ladder.

I really enjoy this metagame, I usually only play gen9 AAA but tried this out because of the ladder, and it has been a breath of fresh air for me. 2AC and the diversity of mons movepools has led me to see quite a bit of experimentation and a variety of sets in mons/team structures. This could be chalked up to 'new' ladder meta but at the same time there is simply more viable sets for mons when compared to gen9 AAA. The team above is pretty standard but I wanted to touch on the two offensive threats of the team.

:Dragonite:

This thing is everywhere, and it only seems to be running CB? I do not think CB is its best set and I haven't seen that in regular AAA since when it was first unbanned. Mixed dnite has shown itself to be a real threat in g9 AAA, and I still think it proves itself here. VA corv is a problem for this mon but you have yveltal and manetric-m to help deal with it so it isn't too bad.

:Manectric-Mega:

Paired with dnite, manectric can help swap terrain/deter pterrain mons a bit more than usual. This was more a, "there are mega's in this meta I'm going to use some of the coolest ones" pick than anything else, but it still had good showings. Running hadron allows regular Manectric to reach a spatk of 411, and that along with rising voltage allows it to be a late-game cleaner or apply offensive pressure midgame. I also liked the dynamic speed tier of this mon, as Manectric could go from a middling 339 speed to one of the fastest at 405. Although there is trade-off in power/no more e-terrain, the times when I mega'd were for the speed boost/utility of intimidate, a great ability in its own right. You are still clicking rising voltage most of the time even after the mega, so you were likely picking a KO up anyway, and the hp ice and flamethrower allow for coverage for any immunity ability/grounds so one isn't totally helpless if you can't click rv. This mon is a blast to use but definitely has limitations/drawbacks, especially if the opponent has a pert (which I also weirdly have not seen too much of).

This team struggles against the weathers and doubling up on ground regen probably isn't the best idea as there is overlap in weaknesses, but the goal of this team was to just get in Yveltal, dnite, and manectric to deal big damage before you could get blasted. Since Yveltal is banned I am not too sure what one could trade out this mon for, really any strong breaker would work so I'm just gonna have fun with it.

Screenshot 2024-03-03 at 3.30.07 PM.png

Screenshot 2024-03-03 at 4.36.08 PM.png

(this is the only time this will happen so Im gonna document it in all its 71% gxe glory)
 
finally hit #1
image_2024-03-13_213550465.png
image_2024-03-13_213142224.png
image_2024-03-13_215958844.png
Lost once to gag Garganacl, once to sand stream mega garchomp, and twice to lordbox clicking rain boosted weather ball.
:chansey::ferrothorn::sableye-mega::kommo-o::hippowdon::skarmory:
:chansey::ferrothorn::great-tusk::gourgeist::gliscor::skarmory:
Both teams have the same idea, chansey+ferro spdef core, which leaves 4 slots for the physical threats
Originially started with mega sableye, but then realized that it was terrible hazard control, as most hazard setter can wear it down easily, nor did it counter anything besides mega medicham. Rapid spin tusk is more consistent, although I wish it beated more besides just terrakion. Both teams had two itemless mons bc ceru is broken, and both teams are weak to no guard genesect. Toxic debris is probably broken, bc the poison types in the tier are hard to fit, and most low ladder offense/rain teams just lose to it. It didnt do anything in the four games I played with it unfortunately, and flame body is probably better on gourgeist anyway. Overall fun tier, would recommend.
 

LordBox

you should love yourself... NOW!
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A few things to talk about in this post. Firstly, >>> NEW SAMPLE TEAMS <<< (click here, or just go to the hub) I might have gone a bit overboard with putting in my balance/BO teams but... the more the merrier right...? Hopefully they're good enough (if they're not, please tell me!!) Just to note, sample submissions are always open so I encourage you to post teams here if you do have them!!!

Secondly, a NEW SURVEY (below), you should fill it out!!

I'll like to discuss my own thoughts on a lot of the things in the survey as it can be hard for people to see why we put these things on the survey as the meta is still rather all-over the place and to also avoid double-posting (but who would stop me...)

Z-Moves: While it's a bit controversial to go after a whole mechanic, I am really the type to go after practically anything (within reasonable bounds) as long as it makes the meta healthier and Z-Moves can certainly fit that criteria. Z-Moves are very strong in this meta, as evidenced by the several mons banned in large and main part due to their power (Chien-Pao and Iron Boulder being the main examples) but that isn't even enough. Outside of mons I will discuss later, Z-Moves are extremely potent on just about any set-up sweeper. Gholdengo can run Ghostium Z to bypass Bulletproof and smash past neutral RegenVests quite easily (and so can Lele), Roaring Moon can run Electrium Z to bypass Fini/Corv or run Dragonium Z to bypass Great Tusk/Gliscor and always bypassing Fluffy. Manaphy can run Waterium Z to demolish any neutral wall and even past resists like Ferrothorn. Dragonite already has great coverage which can significantly amplified by Electrium, Firium and Groundium Z (all of which bypass Fluffy). I've seen Iron Hands use Electrium Z to bypass Fluffy/Mew a traditionally safe check. The only reason I don't think it hasn't been noticed as much is because lack of meta development, but increasingly it isn't a pretty picture and these are only listing what I've seen or used. To a degree Z-Moves have a certain cost, and can be "outplayed" or let you utilise mons in fresh ways, which I can only really say for Gholdengo. Mons in this meta already have enough power with damage-amp abilities and an instant nuke-button in whatever Z-Move of their choice to bypass checks overall I would say increase to the fishiness of the tier. It is hard to scout and "outplay" a Z-Move user, lest I run 3 protects on the same team. The tier already has a plethora of straining offensive threats so would it better to cut our losses to get rid of Z-Moves or pick off abusers as they come out of the wood work?

Ceruledge: An extremely strong mon even in SVAAA. It is however limited through its somewhat lacking speed, bulk and defensive typing that lets it be more readily outplayed and does have some limited defensive counterplay. This counterplay is often niche, Itemless or dual immunity or quite shaky but it can be enough, like PhysDef Great Tusk or Intimidate Gliscor. However with Ghostium Z it bypasses its shakier checks completely and even annihilates Itemless checks completely. Defensively handling it is nigh impossible outside of dual immunities or very good play in "outplaying" the Z-Move with Itemless. With Z-Moves, it's a bit too broken for me but without I would consider it fine.

Gouging/MChar: Strong set-up sweepers that have helped contributed to the large presence of Fire-type checks being almost omnipresent. They're pretty dumb and quite strong, Gouging has a lot of options and great bulk and can even run Z-Moves to bypass checks like WBB Corviknight and Tapu Fini. There's already enough pressure otherwise that I think for the best they should be gone (even if defensive Gouging is cool)

Good as Gold: Really annoying ability, though not near the meta-defining warping ability it was in SVAAA. The far greater distribution of hazard removal means removal is far more flexible and GaG is not easy to fit onto teams as it lacks compressing any roles. Still quite a nuisance and hazard stack can still fish versus teams ill-equiped to last or break through.

2AC -> 1AC: Offense in the the tier is not in the best of positions. This comes down less to its actual viabillity, but that it's just easier (and probably better) to build with more solid Regen cores rather than experiment with offense and looser structures. This may due to small sample size however (I'm very biased towards balance/BO... but this is what Atha is saying so...) so I'd be interested to see what other people have to say about this.


>>> SURVEY HERE!!! <<<
(click on the blue text)
 
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cat

anemoia
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Hey! I think I have an oversight in the bans. Zygarde Complete should be banned right? If I'm mistaken ignore me
Replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexaaa-2080904636
no, zyg-c is intentionally freed. its not inherently broken since:
1) you have to use zydog before it can transform, which is pretty fucking frail
2) you sacrifice your ability slot, preventing it from having a higher damage output
3) there are ways to play against it like EE Ghold, Intim Corv, etc
 
What’s typically the considered counterplay for Well Baked body, exactly. It feels simultaneously uncompetitive and unrewarding against a Body Press Pokémon like Ferrothorn
For ferrothorn specifically, some good options are trick victini,knock off,using a strong neutral special move and special fighting type moves. Some options for non homophobic users of wbb you may see on ladder include not relying on desoland for everything,abusing the Pokémon’s other weaknesses,and using mold breaker. However in the event that the ferrothorn didn’t vitini proof with ability shield then you could use mold breaker on victini which is niche. Taunt is an amazing option for both since most abusers of the ability would want to set up on or wall their opponent.
 

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